I admittedly know a lot more about the technicalities of gymnastics than skating, but I think it's healthy for people to agree to disagree sometimes. I am also loathe to go down the "even with mistakes they were way better" route, as unfortunately that argument is used in gymnastics all the time to legitimise very dodgy and political scoring. Thank you for being polite however. Not all people on this thread are as courteous in offering constructive criticism.
No pair has ever been this good before or since. And it has almost nothing to do with the individual moves. It was just the quality of their skating and the unison. I doubt we will ever see the likes of this again.
@mismestera So do I. It's time for a new era of great Russian skaters, though I'd be happy to see great skaters wherever they come from... still, no pair will ever be quite like this one, loving each other as much as they loved their sport.
I just watched both the G&G and M&D SP's for the first time and for me M&D were superior. It seems to me they have a maturity and finesse that G&G (as good as they are), don't possess.
Considering this is a technical program, it surprises me M&D scored lower when their standard elements (spiral sequence, step sequence and combo spins in particular) are more varied, difficult and better executed.
G&G certainly perform with a sense of ease and assurance, but for me there's no comparison.
@Peaceplatform Oh darling, you're so presh but you can save your irony. What I'm saying is that you can't just watch once a program and claim to know everything better than those who actually know the history. It's like reading Darwin without any previous knowledge and suddendly say "No, he was wrog, I know he was": it's simply clear, no offence, that you don't know a lot of things, and I'm sorry (no I'm not) but I can't spend my time informing you... Just study, and good luck :)
@Peaceplatform I don't know if you skate or not but from a pure skating perspective there is no comparison between the two. G&G were in a completely different class than anybody skating then, now or before. Unison, speed, quality of edges. M&D were great skaters but they were just great. G&G were legends in their own time and transcended beyond what they were doing, which is why they could win despite the mistakes.
Beauty, style, & such speed. Oh how I miss them so. They just don't make skater like this anymore. So glad I can get my dose of fantastic skating here on the Tube!
@wwDevichan If talking about modern skating, I'd rather blame Katia Gordeeva for her reluctancy to become a coach (jokingly). Modern skaters know how to jump and hold blades during lifts/death spirals but they have no idea of how to skate (seriously).
@wwDevichan I don't think M&D were slow. They (Artur) invented sophisticated choreography to make their skating less obviously weak and lacking in quality. However, the high speed (although slower than G&G's) was one factor behind the fact that judges ranked them quite high. I agree about acrobatic moves though. I always thought Artur was a merge of an acrobatic dancer and a hockey player. I do credit him though for the outstanding ability to fight, no matter what rivals there were
I could never understand how one can question G&G's superiority over M&D. Watch Sergey between 1:20 and 1:30. There is nothing sloppy or hasty about his movements. He is not trying to catch up with her but skating with such an elegant precision and dignity, as if she was standing still. They were skating as if they never felt the actual speed they were moving at. I don't know any other skaters who managed to reach this level of control and excellence.
Sergei's death was a tragedy. Katya (in her book) revealed that he was unhappy with with their win here because of mistakes. Maybe they would try again in Nagano. Sadly, that was not to be. But these performances, that we can see here, remain so special. Now, we do not see pairs like G&G and M&D. I think that S&Z's performances this past season approached perfection, and reminded us of magical past seasons. Commentators too often reveal prejudices and various agendas.
You can't compare any team to this one. There was magic here that never happened before and might not happen again for 100 years. Their crossovers in unison are worth more than other pair's side by side triple toe loops.
The Soviets had skills that commentators seem to have forgotten about in the past 15 years. These two always skated twice as fast and in unison; they always stayed extremely close together and never varied awkwardly in that; they never had an awkward catch; and he never slowed down on a lift or a throw -- now, ALL the men come to that dead stop that Scott criticized Dmitriev for in '94 when comparing him to Sergei. I loved the Chinese, but to say that any score today is a "record" isn't right.
beautiful! they make it look so easy. they come out of throws and jumps so beautifully. i don't think there's any pair out there today who skates like them.
I would argue that Salé and Pelletier came close to reaching the bar set by G&G. Their 2002 "Love Story" free program was perfectly executed and had the key element missing in the 2010 games - passion. Their synchronicity as a pair is stunning, though sadly, they're the only ones to even come close in 16 years.
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I agree with you on both points. G&G were and are the best pairs team EVER! Also, in my opinion Sale and Pelletier should have won gold outright in '02 because I believe that they outskated B&E.
After watching the pairs figure skating this year, I have to conclude that they were mediocre compared to G&G. No one compares to these 2 ever. Maybe there will come a time when a team will have this type of magic again, but I doubt in my lifetime.
I agree with you 100%. I honestly can't believe the lacking quality of what we have seen this year. I don't think I have ever or will ever see anything as beautiful as these two on the ice again. It was such a tragedy that he died so young.
I agree. I was saddened to see that not one of the Russian athletes came close to any of the past Soviet pairs. There is definitely something to be said about the Soviet athele's regimen of starting young and training all the time. My favorite 2 pairs ever are G & G and Mishkutenok and Dmitriev.
Verne Lundquist was such an amazing Olympic commentator. He always knew how to speak to set the perfect mood for what was happening. That's exactly what figure skating needs to emphasize its organic beauty.
wow they were impecable , and we are talking about 1994, now most skaters are just faster and jumping higher but some of them luck grace =( I am just someone who loves watching..I don't know much about the puntuation system
Haley 452 - - Part I: I agree about the 3-3 combination. But some of the values in the new system have been questioned - - Sandra Loosemore (a skating writer for CBS OnLine) questioned some values six years ago. At first a camel and layback had the same value even though a camel spin is harder. Circular footwork had the same value as straight-line even though more ice needs to be covered - - (those values may not have been changed). AND a skater falling during a quad (continued)
Part II - - Salchow can get more points than if he did a fine triple Salchow. A 2T+3T has the same value as a 3T+2T even though the first is more difficult. I welcome others' viewpoints to try to resolve my issues. i.e. If someone fell in the sp 20 years ago, there was a mandatory .5 deduction - - the jump didn't count - - not so anymore. In the last two Olympics all three medalists had done one or two quads. That IS why I think it may be difficult to beat EVGENI.
Good points. The point system improved many things. But some problems it can't fix, and may make worse. For me, it's a problem that the skaters spend so much time preparing for jumps and doing jumps. There's not much time for choreography. It's just moving from one move to the next, squeezing in as many different positions as possible. Watching a program by someone like John Curry, you really see what has been lost.
@Dylvente Read Sandra Loosemore's article "Code of Points Considered Harmful." She agrees w/ you about jumps. She showed a sample chart of scores from a program; out of 174+ for the total, jumps counted 64.99 points.Choreography counted 16 points. She asks who decided a double axel is 1.74 times more difficult than a double lutz but a triple axel is 1.23 times as hard as a triple lutz! There's still secret judging - no accountability. It's like understanding the new health care bill!
Perhaps they could simply identify elements during the program; then while the props are set up for the presentations, they could use a split screen to compare skaters and exude the enthusiasm they had toward specific ones.
If Evgeni continues with quads, then he and Yuna could almost get their golds before the Olympics! She is a marvel but her excellence intimidates competitors so the scores aren't even close. I wish Evan could master a quad; but Oda may be Evgeni's closest rival.
Part II - M&D were like a Picasso in progress; G&G were like an ebb tide at sunset! I would have understood if two gold medals had been awarded. I think some fans were disappointed that D's CREATIVITY wasn't rewarded enough; knowing about G&G's love story off the ice also affected my perception of their program - - they have beautiful lines, yet M&D have creative spins/positions - - Scott misled fans also - - before & during G&G's program: "can't make ANY mistakes." He admitted they did - -
Part I -- The Bulgarian judge was the only one to rank M&D first. He was moving forward also during the first throw. It would help spectators like me who understand the elements in singles better than in pairs if there were a split screen and a list on each side showing types of jumps, throws, as well as other criteria used to judge - - it also helps us see differences in the height of throws, how much ice is covered, landings, etc. I'm grateful that CoffeeOnIce shared the video.
@clgilray it was the judge from Belarus who ranked them first.Mishkutenok was born in Minsk.Don't misunderstand-I along w/Mum thought M&D should've won. Hamilton is ALWAYS misleading the public Declaiming who winner is in his mind before the rest of skaters have competed. The most disatrous 2002, he said@S&P one more lift and the gold is theirs' set off a controversy the effects still felt today.
@LovelySouthStar Thanks for clarifying who the judge was. I' ve changed my attitude regarding the Olympics and figure skating. For 20 years I'd get discouraged because Communist governments paid for training, room,board (according to reporters) while parents of some of our skaters had to move near facilities and work two jobs; as soon as some people saw what country a judge was from, they "predicted" who would get high scores.If a U.S. flag was raised, the American skater had trained here.
@clgilray In the last decade, an Asian may move to another country, use its facilities, be trained by a Russian coach - - some spectators feel uncomfortable when the flag of the skater's country of birth is raised. That sense of towns and states supporting the local hero, cheer- ing him to Nationals, then being thanked by the winner for their support sometimes is missing. This is another evolution in figure skating and may be a good one. "Patriotic" Americans may think our rinks and coaches
@clgilray should only be used by Americans;but if Alexei hadn't moved to America or Yuna to Canada, we would have missed ethereal skating moments. I'll still cheer for some skaters but am grateful I saw John Curry, Torville and Dean, G&G. There may never be skaters as "perfect" or revolutionary. Though I hate the judging system, I admire each skater's desire to do a perfect spiral and innovative spin - - how fortunate we've been to witness those programs that may never be matched!
Even though Scott admitted G&G had made mistakes (though they "couldn't afford to"), he then used the word "perfection"!! No wonder some heads were spinning. He repeated this during Alexei Yagudin's free skate in 2002 also! One would have thought Alexei might get the bronze or silver; yet on CTV. the commentator said (before the end of the program) "He knows he's done it." These "experts" are supposed to be guiding us, not setting us up for who they think will lose - - then predicting wrong!
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I'm sure by "perfection" Scott meant not so much perfect landings after spectacular jumps as perfectly clean lines (you mentioned this too on one of your previous posts) - something which is much more difficult to develop than interesting choreography.
Very good point - - a judge mentioned recently the challenge of judging blade take-offs, men's hand placements, women's landings - - too many assessments in such a short time!
I don't think subjectivity can ever be eliminated; those who are in awe with "passion/creativity" were overwhelmed with M&D's program; but those who love elegance, an effortless-appearing program consider G&G's skating "magical."
We need to ignore the perennial "Whoever skates cleanly will win"!! Not always true!!
From a Russian paper of 1994: "..Technically G&G's performance wasnt perfect.. M&D were not in a good form, their short program was a disaster.They had nothing to lose and gathered all their might to skate their best... The tension was so high that it could ruin anybody's nerves. When Sergei made those 2mistakes, I lost my heart. Had he not made yet another error, they'd have won anyhow, as they still had 2 very important advantages over their rivals: higher speed and absolutely perfect lines"
THANKS FOR SHARING THE ARTICLE!! I often wondered if Babylonia and Gardner would have beaten Rodnina and Zaitzev; while the audience loved the Americans' elegance, the Russians then also had SPEED and POWER. (Which qualities do judges prefer?) I love Artur's creativity and think he probably would have lost if he had chosen music similar to G&G's. Speed and lines are specific criteria; but I still feel we are "swept away" with G&G's spirals and "effortlessness" when they skate - - ephemeral!
I watched M&D's short program and am wondering why the reporter considered it "a disaster." The lack of unison in G&G's side-by-side spin is obvious; but I thought the judges graded them fairly.
I watched Miki make three major mistakes in her program today; years ago, I would have thought, "She barely stands a chance for a gold." Ashley Wagoner then skated. Her speed has improved immensely. She had a major mistake and maybe singled a double. I didn't think she had skated "that badly" to lose the lead she had - - yet she dropped to third and Ando got first. I'm sure judges can point out where she scraped a few extra points - - but today, a skater can try three quads, fall yet GET points
It seems that for decades the one who skated the CLEANER/CLEAN program prevailed even if the jumps weren't as difficult. I'm sure Brian Orser would have won both the Olympics AND Worlds in 1988 with today's system. Kurt Browning's comment "A skater can't win with the short program but can lose the championship with one fall during the sp doesn't hold true today. The message is to go ahead and try the hard jumps - - skaters will GET points for trying ANYTHING difficult. I miss the old judging!!
are you kidding me? I'd say today the message is don't try hard jumps, it's not worth it. Look at Lysacek - he can't even do a quad and became world champion anyway. It's today better and safer to do a 3-3 combination rather than a quad. Same, look at all the attempts for a quad throw jump in pairs - not worth it, the best couples never even tried a jump this difficult. So I don't know what kind of judging you miss, but if the one where a clean easier jump is better - it's still here...
No doubt they conveyed wonderful elegance and unison; however, "Mish" and Dmitriev's program was brilliant. Natalia's body almost touches the ice during the death spiral. G and G were not in unison during their side-by-side spin - - grading wasn't fair for the long program either. Two flaws and a bobble for G and G; brilliant footwork, final spin and jump in M and D's program - - but they got the silver - -
am surprised that even a couple of judges would have given M&D oridinals over G&G. ie Artur came to a dead stop when he did his throws Sergei kept moving. Sergei would place Katia back on the ice, Artur would basically plop Natalia back on the ice. One miscue on a spin does not make up for their superior unison in vitually every other department and they did it was almost a foot difference in height and they skated so fast made everyone else on the ice look like they were loitering,
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They are very good, but I think Torvil and Dean should have won gold. This dance is not as emotional or as gracefull as it could have been, I think they won because of the gymnastic element...
You're so stupid !!! Torvill&Dean are dancers whereas Gordeeva&Grinkov are a pair. So they don't skate in the same category and nobody of them can beat the others. In the same way, Michelle Kwan can't beat Alexei Yagudin because she is female and he is a male... ahahahahahhaha
Oh, my goodness!!!!! The person putting the graphics in the corner with the skaters' names on it spelled Katia's last name wrong! They put: "Gordeyeva!" There shouldn't be a Y!!!!!! You'd think they'd know better--they're Olympic gold medalists, for goodness sake!!!
In Germany where I live in, her name is spellt Gordejewa - it depends on the country I guess.... . Maybe the Americans are wrong by spelling it "Gordeeva", who knows. I can't speak Russian so I dont know... .
Thanks for your response! CoffeeOnIce informed me it's an alternate spelling, so I guess that explains it. I'm American and I was confused because all the other vids I've seen have spelled it without a Y, so I assumed it was a mistake. Happily, though, it seems I was mistaken! :]
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すごい動画発見したよーっ(・∀・*)ﾉ
絶対みんなも見た方がいいですよーん★
「一億円いらない」で検索してみてーっ！！
世の中にはこんなことで悩んでる人もいるんですね。
みんなも一度見てみてー！!
ikoks19782325 3 weeks ago
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Just beautiful..they were a joy to watch because all the joy in their lives and love for what they did showed through.
clydiemor 1 month ago
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clydiemor 1 month ago
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clydiemor 1 month ago
Did they win?
0xXchococatxX0 1 month ago
Hi Jon,
I admittedly know a lot more about the technicalities of gymnastics than skating, but I think it's healthy for people to agree to disagree sometimes. I am also loathe to go down the "even with mistakes they were way better" route, as unfortunately that argument is used in gymnastics all the time to legitimise very dodgy and political scoring. Thank you for being polite however. Not all people on this thread are as courteous in offering constructive criticism.
Peaceplatform 1 month ago
No pair has ever been this good before or since. And it has almost nothing to do with the individual moves. It was just the quality of their skating and the unison. I doubt we will ever see the likes of this again.
jondavwal13 1 month ago
those are beautiful outfits. the russians have such good taste
fightinside1 3 months ago
i love their outfits :)
b1000days 5 months ago
I love watching those two. He is so missed. They were the perfect couple!!
anndawson 8 months ago 2
Sergei's lines were perfect. He really seemed like a Flamenco dancer. He was superior to her in his skating. I miss him. I wish he was still here.
mismestera 9 months ago 3
@mismestera So do I. It's time for a new era of great Russian skaters, though I'd be happy to see great skaters wherever they come from... still, no pair will ever be quite like this one, loving each other as much as they loved their sport.
nightswimmer99 9 months ago
I just watched both the G&G and M&D SP's for the first time and for me M&D were superior. It seems to me they have a maturity and finesse that G&G (as good as they are), don't possess.
Considering this is a technical program, it surprises me M&D scored lower when their standard elements (spiral sequence, step sequence and combo spins in particular) are more varied, difficult and better executed.
G&G certainly perform with a sense of ease and assurance, but for me there's no comparison.
Peaceplatform 1 year ago
@Peaceplatform - agreed. Even thoug this is one of the best pairs shorts I've ever seen, M & D were spot on, they nailed it.
officeaddict33 1 year ago
@Peaceplatform You obviously have a lack of knowledge
Porporinablu 6 months ago
@Porporinablu - where is your detailed analysis then?
Peaceplatform 6 months ago
@Peaceplatform Oh darling, you're so presh but you can save your irony. What I'm saying is that you can't just watch once a program and claim to know everything better than those who actually know the history. It's like reading Darwin without any previous knowledge and suddendly say "No, he was wrog, I know he was": it's simply clear, no offence, that you don't know a lot of things, and I'm sorry (no I'm not) but I can't spend my time informing you... Just study, and good luck :)
Porporinablu 6 months ago
@Porporinablu - honey, you're all smoke and no fire. I learnt as much from your second "comment" as I did from your first, i.e, nothing at all.
Peaceplatform 6 months ago
@Peaceplatform Yeah well, the fact that you learned nothing was pretty clear to me already. SVP, get your own sarcasm and not mine.
Porporinablu 6 months ago
@Peaceplatform I don't know if you skate or not but from a pure skating perspective there is no comparison between the two. G&G were in a completely different class than anybody skating then, now or before. Unison, speed, quality of edges. M&D were great skaters but they were just great. G&G were legends in their own time and transcended beyond what they were doing, which is why they could win despite the mistakes.
jondavwal13 1 month ago
Interestingly, Sergei who's usually flawless had all the mistakes in both the short program and the long.
kookykrumbs 1 year ago 2
Beauty, style, & such speed. Oh how I miss them so. They just don't make skater like this anymore. So glad I can get my dose of fantastic skating here on the Tube!
carfette 1 year ago 3
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ravenel2 1 year ago
@wwDevichan If talking about modern skating, I'd rather blame Katia Gordeeva for her reluctancy to become a coach (jokingly). Modern skaters know how to jump and hold blades during lifts/death spirals but they have no idea of how to skate (seriously).
oravaskvirel 1 year ago
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@wwDevichan I don't think M&D were slow. They (Artur) invented sophisticated choreography to make their skating less obviously weak and lacking in quality. However, the high speed (although slower than G&G's) was one factor behind the fact that judges ranked them quite high. I agree about acrobatic moves though. I always thought Artur was a merge of an acrobatic dancer and a hockey player. I do credit him though for the outstanding ability to fight, no matter what rivals there were
oravaskvirel 1 year ago
I could never understand how one can question G&G's superiority over M&D. Watch Sergey between 1:20 and 1:30. There is nothing sloppy or hasty about his movements. He is not trying to catch up with her but skating with such an elegant precision and dignity, as if she was standing still. They were skating as if they never felt the actual speed they were moving at. I don't know any other skaters who managed to reach this level of control and excellence.
oravaskvirel 1 year ago
Struth, Sergei had never looked so handsome -- and what a skater!
KiaOra53 1 year ago
Sergei's death was a tragedy. Katya (in her book) revealed that he was unhappy with with their win here because of mistakes. Maybe they would try again in Nagano. Sadly, that was not to be. But these performances, that we can see here, remain so special. Now, we do not see pairs like G&G and M&D. I think that S&Z's performances this past season approached perfection, and reminded us of magical past seasons. Commentators too often reveal prejudices and various agendas.
ja3399 1 year ago
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Jaw-droppingly amazing.
Best skaters EVER.
KiaOra53 1 year ago
so sad..he died so young :( they were my favourite..
Merche74 2 years ago 3
Sadly, they just don't make them like G&G, M&D and Brassuer and Eisler anymore. That 1994 Olympic Pairs competition was the best ever in my opinion.
tvfanatic14 2 years ago 3
You can't compare any team to this one. There was magic here that never happened before and might not happen again for 100 years. Their crossovers in unison are worth more than other pair's side by side triple toe loops.
jondavwal 2 years ago 4
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The Soviets had skills that commentators seem to have forgotten about in the past 15 years. These two always skated twice as fast and in unison; they always stayed extremely close together and never varied awkwardly in that; they never had an awkward catch; and he never slowed down on a lift or a throw -- now, ALL the men come to that dead stop that Scott criticized Dmitriev for in '94 when comparing him to Sergei. I loved the Chinese, but to say that any score today is a "record" isn't right.
ravenel2 2 years ago
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ravenel2 2 years ago
beautiful! they make it look so easy. they come out of throws and jumps so beautifully. i don't think there's any pair out there today who skates like them.
mom232000 2 years ago
I'm just breathless. Amazing!
Lemonka 2 years ago
I miss them
tammimarie 2 years ago
Their movements are so fluid and blend so well together. Glad to see this.
damnchimes 2 years ago
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I would argue that Salé and Pelletier came close to reaching the bar set by G&G. Their 2002 "Love Story" free program was perfectly executed and had the key element missing in the 2010 games - passion. Their synchronicity as a pair is stunning, though sadly, they're the only ones to even come close in 16 years.
CoffeeOnIce 2 years ago
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I agree with you on both points. G&G were and are the best pairs team EVER! Also, in my opinion Sale and Pelletier should have won gold outright in '02 because I believe that they outskated B&E.
tvfanatic14 2 years ago
After watching the pairs figure skating this year, I have to conclude that they were mediocre compared to G&G. No one compares to these 2 ever. Maybe there will come a time when a team will have this type of magic again, but I doubt in my lifetime.
lexustrck 2 years ago
I agree with you 100%. I honestly can't believe the lacking quality of what we have seen this year. I don't think I have ever or will ever see anything as beautiful as these two on the ice again. It was such a tragedy that he died so young.
Belle0308 2 years ago 4
Their score in 2010 should be 500.00+. Nothing in 2010 compares to them. The "first place" Chinese pair should offer their first born to G & G.
Marker773 2 years ago
The Olympics were more fun to watch when the Soviet machine was cranking out quality athletes. Today's skaters are not worthy.
kentky95 2 years ago 40
I agree. I was saddened to see that not one of the Russian athletes came close to any of the past Soviet pairs. There is definitely something to be said about the Soviet athele's regimen of starting young and training all the time. My favorite 2 pairs ever are G & G and Mishkutenok and Dmitriev.
mom232000 2 years ago
@kentky95 I don't agree, skaters are just as good now as they were back then.
supernikki12100 3 months ago
Thanks!
Dylvente 2 years ago
i will always get goose bumps & tears when i watch Katia & Sergei~~ THE BEST EVER!!
annieokl 2 years ago 4
Just sought this out after watching the 2010 short program. Will anyone ever equal these two?
Note their perfect timing, magnificent technique, and truly elegant choreography - on top of athleticism that was top-notch at the time.
And look at their costumes - so tasteful, especially compared to what some of the pairs wore tonight. WTF were the Chinese men thinking??? Ghastly.
Marker773 2 years ago 3
agreed, haven't seen anything as exciting in pairs since G&G. And this was AFTER she had given birth a couple of years before.
factsneeded 2 years ago 2
so beautiful. I still remember the day he died. So young.
factsneeded 2 years ago
Verne Lundquist was such an amazing Olympic commentator. He always knew how to speak to set the perfect mood for what was happening. That's exactly what figure skating needs to emphasize its organic beauty.
CoCoNuTsiopatHic 2 years ago
the most beautiful couple the world has ever seen.
mamadoenut 2 years ago 17
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nomkit224 2 years ago
wow they were impecable , and we are talking about 1994, now most skaters are just faster and jumping higher but some of them luck grace =( I am just someone who loves watching..I don't know much about the puntuation system
EvaGiannina1 2 years ago
Haley 452 - - Part I: I agree about the 3-3 combination. But some of the values in the new system have been questioned - - Sandra Loosemore (a skating writer for CBS OnLine) questioned some values six years ago. At first a camel and layback had the same value even though a camel spin is harder. Circular footwork had the same value as straight-line even though more ice needs to be covered - - (those values may not have been changed). AND a skater falling during a quad (continued)
clgilray 2 years ago
Part II - - Salchow can get more points than if he did a fine triple Salchow. A 2T+3T has the same value as a 3T+2T even though the first is more difficult. I welcome others' viewpoints to try to resolve my issues. i.e. If someone fell in the sp 20 years ago, there was a mandatory .5 deduction - - the jump didn't count - - not so anymore. In the last two Olympics all three medalists had done one or two quads. That IS why I think it may be difficult to beat EVGENI.
clgilray 2 years ago
Good points. The point system improved many things. But some problems it can't fix, and may make worse. For me, it's a problem that the skaters spend so much time preparing for jumps and doing jumps. There's not much time for choreography. It's just moving from one move to the next, squeezing in as many different positions as possible. Watching a program by someone like John Curry, you really see what has been lost.
Dylvente 2 years ago
@Dylvente Read Sandra Loosemore's article "Code of Points Considered Harmful." She agrees w/ you about jumps. She showed a sample chart of scores from a program; out of 174+ for the total, jumps counted 64.99 points.Choreography counted 16 points. She asks who decided a double axel is 1.74 times more difficult than a double lutz but a triple axel is 1.23 times as hard as a triple lutz! There's still secret judging - no accountability. It's like understanding the new health care bill!
clgilray 2 years ago
Thank you so much for posting this. They were pure perfection. It is a gift to us that we can still watch this even though he is no longer with us.
stefunnyo 2 years ago 4
Perhaps they could simply identify elements during the program; then while the props are set up for the presentations, they could use a split screen to compare skaters and exude the enthusiasm they had toward specific ones.
If Evgeni continues with quads, then he and Yuna could almost get their golds before the Olympics! She is a marvel but her excellence intimidates competitors so the scores aren't even close. I wish Evan could master a quad; but Oda may be Evgeni's closest rival.
clgilray 2 years ago
Stupendi...
155Troy 2 years ago
Part II - M&D were like a Picasso in progress; G&G were like an ebb tide at sunset! I would have understood if two gold medals had been awarded. I think some fans were disappointed that D's CREATIVITY wasn't rewarded enough; knowing about G&G's love story off the ice also affected my perception of their program - - they have beautiful lines, yet M&D have creative spins/positions - - Scott misled fans also - - before & during G&G's program: "can't make ANY mistakes." He admitted they did - -
clgilray 2 years ago 4
Part I -- The Bulgarian judge was the only one to rank M&D first. He was moving forward also during the first throw. It would help spectators like me who understand the elements in singles better than in pairs if there were a split screen and a list on each side showing types of jumps, throws, as well as other criteria used to judge - - it also helps us see differences in the height of throws, how much ice is covered, landings, etc. I'm grateful that CoffeeOnIce shared the video.
(Continued)
clgilray 2 years ago 6
@clgilray it was the judge from Belarus who ranked them first.Mishkutenok was born in Minsk.Don't misunderstand-I along w/Mum thought M&D should've won. Hamilton is ALWAYS misleading the public Declaiming who winner is in his mind before the rest of skaters have competed. The most disatrous 2002, he said@S&P one more lift and the gold is theirs' set off a controversy the effects still felt today.
LovelySouthStar 2 years ago
clgilray 2 years ago
clgilray 2 years ago
clgilray 2 years ago
wow!
lucylovesyoutoo 2 years ago
Even though Scott admitted G&G had made mistakes (though they "couldn't afford to"), he then used the word "perfection"!! No wonder some heads were spinning. He repeated this during Alexei Yagudin's free skate in 2002 also! One would have thought Alexei might get the bronze or silver; yet on CTV. the commentator said (before the end of the program) "He knows he's done it." These "experts" are supposed to be guiding us, not setting us up for who they think will lose - - then predicting wrong!
clgilray 2 years ago 16
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I'm sure by "perfection" Scott meant not so much perfect landings after spectacular jumps as perfectly clean lines (you mentioned this too on one of your previous posts) - something which is much more difficult to develop than interesting choreography.
oravaskvirel 2 years ago
Very good point - - a judge mentioned recently the challenge of judging blade take-offs, men's hand placements, women's landings - - too many assessments in such a short time!
I don't think subjectivity can ever be eliminated; those who are in awe with "passion/creativity" were overwhelmed with M&D's program; but those who love elegance, an effortless-appearing program consider G&G's skating "magical."
We need to ignore the perennial "Whoever skates cleanly will win"!! Not always true!!
clgilray 2 years ago 4
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From a Russian paper of 1994: "..Technically G&G's performance wasnt perfect.. M&D were not in a good form, their short program was a disaster.They had nothing to lose and gathered all their might to skate their best... The tension was so high that it could ruin anybody's nerves. When Sergei made those 2mistakes, I lost my heart. Had he not made yet another error, they'd have won anyhow, as they still had 2 very important advantages over their rivals: higher speed and absolutely perfect lines"
oravaskvirel 2 years ago
THANKS FOR SHARING THE ARTICLE!! I often wondered if Babylonia and Gardner would have beaten Rodnina and Zaitzev; while the audience loved the Americans' elegance, the Russians then also had SPEED and POWER. (Which qualities do judges prefer?) I love Artur's creativity and think he probably would have lost if he had chosen music similar to G&G's. Speed and lines are specific criteria; but I still feel we are "swept away" with G&G's spirals and "effortlessness" when they skate - - ephemeral!
clgilray 2 years ago
I watched M&D's short program and am wondering why the reporter considered it "a disaster." The lack of unison in G&G's side-by-side spin is obvious; but I thought the judges graded them fairly.
clgilray 2 years ago 4
It was a disaster during the Europeans. Sorry for misleading you with this.
oravaskvirel 2 years ago
I watched Miki make three major mistakes in her program today; years ago, I would have thought, "She barely stands a chance for a gold." Ashley Wagoner then skated. Her speed has improved immensely. She had a major mistake and maybe singled a double. I didn't think she had skated "that badly" to lose the lead she had - - yet she dropped to third and Ando got first. I'm sure judges can point out where she scraped a few extra points - - but today, a skater can try three quads, fall yet GET points
clgilray 2 years ago
It seems that for decades the one who skated the CLEANER/CLEAN program prevailed even if the jumps weren't as difficult. I'm sure Brian Orser would have won both the Olympics AND Worlds in 1988 with today's system. Kurt Browning's comment "A skater can't win with the short program but can lose the championship with one fall during the sp doesn't hold true today. The message is to go ahead and try the hard jumps - - skaters will GET points for trying ANYTHING difficult. I miss the old judging!!
clgilray 2 years ago
are you kidding me? I'd say today the message is don't try hard jumps, it's not worth it. Look at Lysacek - he can't even do a quad and became world champion anyway. It's today better and safer to do a 3-3 combination rather than a quad. Same, look at all the attempts for a quad throw jump in pairs - not worth it, the best couples never even tried a jump this difficult. So I don't know what kind of judging you miss, but if the one where a clean easier jump is better - it's still here...
Haley452 2 years ago
She's light as feather.
zaulaa 2 years ago
No doubt they conveyed wonderful elegance and unison; however, "Mish" and Dmitriev's program was brilliant. Natalia's body almost touches the ice during the death spiral. G and G were not in unison during their side-by-side spin - - grading wasn't fair for the long program either. Two flaws and a bobble for G and G; brilliant footwork, final spin and jump in M and D's program - - but they got the silver - -
clgilray 2 years ago 3
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am surprised that even a couple of judges would have given M&D oridinals over G&G. ie Artur came to a dead stop when he did his throws Sergei kept moving. Sergei would place Katia back on the ice, Artur would basically plop Natalia back on the ice. One miscue on a spin does not make up for their superior unison in vitually every other department and they did it was almost a foot difference in height and they skated so fast made everyone else on the ice look like they were loitering,
Jude74 2 years ago
Sergei was over 6 feet tall...Katia is just under 5'2"
jenderjender 3 years ago
Sergei was actually more like 5'11" and Katya is about 5'3" (I've stood next to her and I'm 4'11", and she was more than 5'2").
neemarita 3 years ago
Everything they do seems so effortless. As if anyone can do it. Just magical.
Tihbialdunav 3 years ago 5
I so agree with you! I have not seen another couple yet to take my breath away like these two did. Exquisite is the perfect word to describe them.
Zuelua 3 years ago 3
Is he especially tall or is she just itsy-bitsy?
elvenlove 3 years ago
haha no she's just tiny
sk8inprincess21 3 years ago
You should go watch videos of them when they first started, she was really itsy bitsy then!LOL!
jimmywaynegirl 3 years ago
FYI: This video is being linked to by the Los Angeles Times.
awartha 3 years ago
They were glorious. Beyond words and never to be duplicated.
franniebaby 3 years ago 4
God, they were beautiful. RIP Sergei..you are so missed by many. Beautiful skating.
nascargal 3 years ago 4
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They are very good, but I think Torvil and Dean should have won gold. This dance is not as emotional or as gracefull as it could have been, I think they won because of the gymnastic element...
9215 3 years ago
You're so stupid !!! Torvill&Dean are dancers whereas Gordeeva&Grinkov are a pair. So they don't skate in the same category and nobody of them can beat the others. In the same way, Michelle Kwan can't beat Alexei Yagudin because she is female and he is a male... ahahahahahhaha
dilou95 3 years ago
So I made a mistake, big deal! Seriously, chill. Where was my personal attack on you to warrant your attack?
9215 3 years ago
It's not an attack but just a joke exactly as your commentary which was very funny...
dilou95 3 years ago
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Yes, you have the wrong event but I personally agree that Torvil&Dean should have won the ice dancing gold. They were robbed.
frostdiamond1 3 years ago
Gordeeva and grinkov were pair skaters torvil and Dean were ice dancers .
AnnaLinansky 3 years ago
1,50 minutes... AMAZING!
Arthurts 3 years ago
I love her costume...
They're the best ever...
vivelhistoire 3 years ago 2
he was so cute
katyisgone 4 years ago 2
Oh, my goodness!!!!! The person putting the graphics in the corner with the skaters' names on it spelled Katia's last name wrong! They put: "Gordeyeva!" There shouldn't be a Y!!!!!! You'd think they'd know better--they're Olympic gold medalists, for goodness sake!!!
frostdiamond1 4 years ago
It's an alternate spelling.
CoffeeOnIce 3 years ago 2
Thanks for the information!
frostdiamond1 3 years ago
In Germany where I live in, her name is spellt Gordejewa - it depends on the country I guess.... . Maybe the Americans are wrong by spelling it "Gordeeva", who knows. I can't speak Russian so I dont know... .
Gringaalemana83 3 years ago
Thanks for your response! CoffeeOnIce informed me it's an alternate spelling, so I guess that explains it. I'm American and I was confused because all the other vids I've seen have spelled it without a Y, so I assumed it was a mistake. Happily, though, it seems I was mistaken! :]
frostdiamond1 3 years ago
Simply the best !!
jjan2007 4 years ago