this nation is becoming the soviet union and your dope and change is coming,good luck in the future,your going to need it when your life and death are decided by your govt.
nope the nation will never be the Soviet Union. Too many people adjusted to a certain way of life Can't control the masses this time around especially in an information age. The system is made up of layers of govt. and the Federal/State/Local Levels so some level will fight back and it probably will be States vs. Federal abuses/tyranny. Just one scenario, but frankly voters have to start realizing that the two party system is not their friend. That might still take some convincing.
If someone wants to drink a 1000 cokes a day, what BUSINESS is that of mine. What ever happened to LIVE&LET LIVE for Christ's sake. Nobody has a personal choice anymore. Your ideas & choices are yours to make, Nobody elses. I got a full time job, Tending my own business, Let alone someone elses. Mind your business, And let others mind their's.
Its ment to mesh into Codex Alumintarius. So people will get nutrision from chemical means not food. Specialists will not be needed duie to common causes of death IE scurvie. Life expectancys will plummet making global predictions of population control jump for joy at our death and missery. Dont have to critisize me research it your selves. The News will not tell you untill its too late.
gotta love those fatty chemically processed foods. Last I checked, sodie was chock full of chemicals. It is easy to commii to degradation of your health. Just drink 100 Cokes a day. You might get that energy rush you were looking for however it'll also clean your insides out and then some :)
I am an anesthesiologist (albeit disabled due to an 'invisible' diagnosis, Dysautonomia. People lay bed-ridden with this disease for ?15 years? Standing = Fainting for us. Took me 6 months to get a diagnosis, but that was after fighting for my life, refusing to go to a nursing home without a diagnosis, and...the future looks scary. Bunches of medical students went into Family Practice back in 1996 when Hillary wanted to change the health care system.. Healthy? Run, swim, enjoy life, thank God.
This health care debate should be dropped. Next we need to support farmers' rights for growing organic Marijuana and selling it directly to the public w/ all applicable Federal/State/Local taxes. That would fill ye old coffers of Fed/State/Local budgest alike. Then we can smuggle our legal product back into Mexico and make it a two way street vs. a one way street. We need to have some type of export going south of the border am I right? Put them Mexican weed wackers out of business yes?
So, according to the data shown here, all the countries that have government run health care have more specialists per patient and those specialists are better paid. So, while the US free market system is failing to provide sufficient specialists, other countries have the solution. (Please watch it again with this in mind.)
We need a health care system that's accountable to the people it serves.
"Free market?" There is almost nothing about our healthcare system that resembles a free market.
The person who needs health care doesn't purchase it. The provider of healthcare is not paid by the person who needs it. The people who pay for it don't receive it.
Other countries have wrestled with shortages/waiting lines and adapted. Proposed legislation will force us to relearn lessons already addressed by Canada and the UK, in the case of joint replacement.
Not one government controlled program has succeeded...NEVER! If this gets implemented, it will be permanent and life as we know it will be gone. We cannot afford this irresponsible 2000-page bill that no one really knows what's in it. Scary!!! We need to take time and get something that works for everyone, not just for 15% of the population.
"Not one government controlled program has succeeded...NEVER!" and that's exactly why we should privatize all education, the military, police, fire departments and interstate highways. Why should I have to pay more taxes just so the government will put out your house fire for free? I'd rather just buy fire fighting insurance or have my own solution.
well pzulwisner, if they do want to create jobs, they can always transform their lovely interstate system into toll roads. will provide jobs having to transform them miles of existing interstate and provide future jobs as there will be a need for toll booth workers. Same goes for as if the roads were to be privatized. toll road nation with them funds hopefully going towards some much needed maintenance :)
people know whats in the bill... its probably one of the most heavily scrutinized bills in history. Which is why it has grown so much since its introduction. "this we dont know whats in the bill" crap is something fox news just uses to scare people. Do you know whats in any bill? unless you have a law degree and understand all the legal jargon... you probably dont have a clue whats in any bill, regardless of length. We probably know more about the healthcare bill than any other bill in the past
hey man there's not that many bills that make you navigate through the whole document, flipping and flipping and flipping pages just so you can read one paragraph
all bills that pass through congress are just as complicated. The more changes a bill proposes... the more pages it is. I can guarantee your congressman knows more about this healthcare bill than any other bill during the past 2 decades. Granted the public doesnt have a clue whats in it... but the public also has never even tried to read a bill before. Especially because the healthcare lobbyists have made sure to read every line of text looking for any possible angle to attack it from.
bullshit, not all bills are even close to that complicated. go and read a couple. bullshit, my congressman has admitted to never reading and not even caring what's in the bill. bullshit, the public is getting a general idea of what's in the bill, and YES THE GENERAL PUBLIC HAS READ MANY MANY BILLS!!!!! and as for your last sentence i must agree...
congressman dont read most bills. They have aids read it for them.
and how many bills have you read in the past? im willing to bet the number is 0. In fact im willing to bet the number is 0 for everyone posting on this video.
The video is accurate in many ways, but fails to address the many other factors involved in cost of medical care, practicing defensive medicine, cost of advertisement of insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and hospitals! The same source (OECD) clearly states that the US is the number 1 spender on healthcare 13% of GDP but we are not healthier than most countries. Prevention is cheaper and treatment is more expensive, specialists are necessary but should not be first line treatment.
I don't believe it is accurate at all. There are pleny of specialists and always will be, there is money to be made there. You are for sure correct on everything else. The video starts out stating wait times in other countries. That is very misleading. In Canada it is VERY rare and when it is crucial for immediate care the patient can come the to the US and the Canadian government pays for it. The fear mongering and lies out there are un-real!
our health care is an amendment right..no way would we ever settle for others making our decisions! the cost is high cause hospitals charge for meds that are never given...& charge for test 2 or 3 times! a tylenol is $20.00..eh??
yes we have the right to life, but the HR3200 bill will make things a LOT worse. The government is bankrupt.....worse than bankrupt actually, trillions upon trillions of dollars in debt, it would work out better if the healthcare industry took over the government, it's working a lot better. You obviously have never had to work with our federal beurocract in trying to get anything done, have you experienced the web of red tape?
thinkingcloud, the problem with our govt. today is that they are too chickenshit to implement anything immediately and people want to see immediate results and change. Well they got until next year to bring the cost of healthcare down before most of them will be looking for a new job. I've had it with a govt. says it needs years to implement something. Sounds very political vs. beneficial to the public. I agree with you and I'm under the impression never to trust a govt. in debt.
the government is not supposed to work like that!! what if everything that was proposed and made to sound good like health care was immediately rammed through congress without serious debate? or especially THE INTERESTS OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS, besides, everyone in congress WORKS FOR THEIR CONSTITUENTS, right? i mean that's the way it's supposed to work
lpg, all one can do is wait for the govt. to act then react. I'm just waiting to see how far govt. at the Federal level tries to push stuff on the public that is unconstitutional before states start fighting back. There is such a thing as bad govt. and I think the mandate for people to buy insurance or be fined is fair warning of bad govt. Just need to vote out the garbage and actually start seeing 66% of the vote going towards real candidates vs. candidates that are self serving.
The sad thing is the lifers in Washington are clueless. They are so entrenched in the Washington bureaucratic bull they no longer do what is right for American.
The cost is high because of lack of competition. The Government controls production and consumption through rules and regulations. They set the prices for 1/2 the healthcare sector directly and the other 1/2 indirectly throught medicare/medicaid. They have allowed the monopolies in Insurance in each state. A public option would not be competition because Government can charge artificialy lower prices and make up for it through taxes. Government is the problem not the solution.
If I had to choose between the Government and the private health insurance industry, I would choose the Government any day of the week. If you told Medicare patients that if they could keep the money that they take out of their social security for Medicare and said that you are on your own and have to buy private insurance, the elderly would be screaming for their Medicare. There are NO, NONE, ZERO consumer protections placed on the PHI industry.
no we don't have long waits because r docs make millions!!! not so in other countries...they make like $50,000.00..the vid is not accurate ..@ all..!!
remember those mythological Obama "death panels" that Sarah Palin screamed about? While they never did exist in Obama's reform plan, they do exist in that Republican-led state of Texas! The Texas Futile Care Law allows a committee appointed by a hospital corporation to overrule families and pull the plug on granny if the hospital deems any more treatment to be "futile." It was signed into law by--guess who?--Governor George W. Bush.
as far as my last job was concerned, I was being used as a temp. and not getting my full paycheck because I had to fucking commute getting paid $12/hr. Tack on the high cost of gas and my take home pay is reduced. Thanks for pushing up the cost of fuel. Yep I was working for a company that failed to convert me over to permanent with possible benefits after six months. W/ my pay being retarded for that long, I was just going to save my money and cut my expenses. Your situations may hve varied.
the last thing I'm going to do is demonize a person that doesn't have health insurance because I don't know that person's situation. Why will I be getting health insurance? Because I finally found a fucking job that pays well and subsidizes benefits and it took the better part of a few years of going without health insurance and not forking money over for stupid high deductible plans and working my way back up in a tight economy to make that happen. That is as realistic as life gets folks.
here is what should really happen. Keep pushing those health insurance rates up and when people can no longer afford it and start doing zero business with insurance companies, then perhaps the industry itself will crash as it should because of all the greed, corruption, and lack of enforcement and a real solution which lead up to it. Then perhaps in the aftermath new insurance companies will spring up with fairer policies forcing the corrupt ones out. That is being realistic.
I've heard there is a waiting list to get into Calif medical schools. Too many US citizens are waiting in line behind foreign students to attend a medical university in the United States.
Also we are not another country BB. We are a nation with individual rights and once we feel our rights have been infringed by a govt. that thinks it can tell you that you will take on more in monthly expenses is no longer a govt. that really can be trusted. The mandate will be constitutionally challenge and we the people can manage our monthly expenses just fine. That is your problem and not my problem if you are paying for overpriced care. Find a more realistic solution.
The shortage of medical specialist has existed long before the idea of health care reform. This is because the education in the US doesnt teach kids the necessary material to become doctors or engineer, most of them go to college to learn web design or advertising. This is why most Doctors and engineers in the US are immigrants from other countries
Why does nobody address the fact that our current health care is 37th in the world due to its corrupt profit making interests?
Just depends on what the student is interested in pursuing. Then again has the education really been revised to streamline the process where students are focusing on just the courses that are needed to become a medical professional or are colleges still pushing the basic education along side it? And was there ever a time once when med school was evern affordable? Nowadays the higher education system is geared towards higher costs and it comes with a price of some not accessing higher education
K-12 education should be reformed to where a High School education has more value to where said student can enter the work force with a beefed up diploma with an emphasis in something or move on to higher education. However higher education shouldn't take another 4 years. Teach the higher math and real English courses at the earlier grade levels and let them actually get college credit for it so they don't have to waste time repeating courses that are unnecessary.
I've made my points here on this post. Anyone thinking I'm a tool is wrong because I've already lived through the rough patches and have endured with others and can tell you first hand that not everyone is treated fairly in the real world and there are others out there that will try to fuck up whatever little you have going. I just work and enjoy life and don't worry about whether or not I have health ins. And regardless I'm always there for my friends as they were for me. L8TR.
to anyone that doesn't have any assets/retirement/house/expensive car, what the hell do we have to lose with inflated medical costs. There is nothing anyone can take from you. However as you dig out and progress, then yes it makes sense to carry health ins. but not when you are living paycheck to paycheck or know you might be out of work sometime in the future. I stand by my point that mandatory health insurance is unconstitutional and doesn't solve anything.
You seem like a very reasonable person. But in regards to you opinion on national health care and it being mandatory, you have absolutely no idea what the hell you are talking about.
If you lived in another county for a week, you would see how incredible stupid your current views are.
because insuring everyone doesn't bring health care costs down. What has been proposed by the U.S. govt. in regards to mandatory insurance is such a one sided argument. If health care costs were to truly come down, then insurance would come down with it. A play or pay approach by the govt. is unconstitutional and it doesn't solve the problem. Gets us back the question on who Congress is really working for.
I have health ($400.00/month), home owners and auto insurance (package for$210.00/ month), that I pay for.
I have had one auto accident in my life, cost $1400.00, I have had one incident of storm damage to my house, cost $2600.00. In 2002 I was diagnosed with Acute Myeloid Leukemia Cost=>$500,000.00.
I have paid in more and recieved less on all other insurance than I have on helath insurance. Health insurance saved my life.
The mindset I tend to be in nowadays is why go into debt to stay alive? Why struggle with paying $400/mo health care premiums if one doesn't make enough to support that type of premium? Why pay for a policy where you know that either way you are screwed? Why is a mandate even being brought up? Have the root causes of skyrocketing costs even been addressed? What I'm pointing out is we are in and out of work all the time, yet we are expected to maintain constant health insurance?
I don't advocate mandatory insurance, I merely cite that insurance (if you get sick) is a bargain. the real problem is the high cost of health care, not the insurance. if health care were cheaper, insurance would also be cheaper. Imagine if you could get health insurance for less than say $100.00 a month? If insurance companies were not required to pay for law suits for malpractice, the cost of all insurance including health insurance would be lower, without all the government involvement.
and that is where I'm at now as I finally found a job that subsidizes it. A job that I relocated to. While it is still not a great bargain as compared to more expensive options through my job it is a start. What I was dealing with before in the workforce were unstable and short term positions so going back and forth between employment and unemployement and piling on the cost of a policy where I know I'll go bankrupt via high deductible didn't make me want to go out and get a policy.
I understood about the importance of carrying insurance a long time ago but after my stint in trucking I just left that field behind because it wasn't worth what I was making and I could've cared less about the benefits. It just took awhile to restructure and get to where I'm at now. There are always risk involved in life and I leave up to people to manage and determine what is best for them. Have to wait and see if this upcoming health legislation actually work and time will tell. Gd luck
It is easy for people with stable careers to say to others that have struggled why are you not maintaining your health insurance? Gee perhaps because I know I'm in a position where I'm in and out of jobs or the only way to build myself back up was through temporary employment that would never go permanent and I'd have less income on unempolyment between positions. Society isn't perfect and people cut expenses where they have to in order to live. I considered health ins. an expense since '05.
and in 2004 I went without coverage while trying to rebuild my life. 2005 I learned I couldn't get coverage since I was working a position based in CA and my residential address was out of state. Independent health coverage was a joke and still is. Come Dec. 2006, I exhaust my savings settling locally into a town and just working my way back up since being turned down by other industries. And I'm expected to maintain health insurance?
present day: I've finally found stable employment in relocating elsewhere for and where I'm working now offers some type of effective/immediate coverage but I'm not breaking the bank doing it. If I ever found myself unemployed again, I wouldn't maintain Cobra because the full cost of maintaining a pricey policy just adds to my montly expenses while I'm unemployed for indefinite amounts of time. I worked and never bitched to govt. about affordability. I just did without health ins.
so final cost to me is around $66/mo. It will go up come 2010 but not by much and I do make enough to carry it so it is a nice change of pace and that should kick in next month if all goes well. My more expensive choice was $300+/mo and I just steered clear of that. Of course if I lost that job then depending on my immediate health concerns I just might not carry insurance in between jobs unless I had a considerable amount of savings in the bank. Just depends on where I'm at financially.
bluestems, as an educated person you should have enough sense to realize that things were not always like this and hospital rates were probably once very reasonable. Do you ever consider the root causes as to why things are artificially high w/ the medical industry? Govt. has dropped the ball and now their solution is 100% coverage for all. You call me a tool and I'm being as realistic as possible. You choose to trust the govt. fine see what happens, I'll be standing up against bad govt.
Medical insurance in itself has now become more of a ponzi scheme that has gone out of scope with the market. Medical rates that have skyrocketed have also gone out of scope with the marketplace. Someone has had a hand in making it that way and there are a lot of factors that really haven't been addressed. People having health insurance doesn't address the root causes and you accept the mandatory requirement without question. You don't have any real clue here bluestems. You are a tool.
bluestems, I've lead my life as an individual and have given my own perspective on things considering that there are others just like me living single. We are just not going to be subjected to certain govt. requirements if we are unemployed at times and just living off whatever little savings we have. Takes awhile to achieve stability, but at the same time I'll make sure I manage my own finances so I don't have to rely on others and I've done that successfully.
yet even during rough times, I have helped my neighbors and have given out food and a little money and assisted with driving them places because I never cared about the money. That is where I come from and I respect my hard working neighbors that are struggling to. For all that I've done my neighbors have kicked me down meals and have invitied me into their place at times to socialize or celebrate the holidays and I'm grateful to have shared what I could. That is the type of person I really am.
bluestems, I've said this before on another post and I'll say it to you. People that bitch that the uninsured are costing them money are full of shit. You chose to enter into business of paying for an expensive policy. That is your problem, not my problem. If you or anyone else want to blame the common person for running up prices then you are fighting the wrong battle. Find a cheaper policy or fight back. Don't bitch to me that some of us have in some way driven your insurance rates up.
This video is just a scare tactic... every developed country in the world has universal healthcare (not always single payer) and pay less than we do for their care, and get better care (we rank 37th in health stats)
They don't have a shortage of doctors, doctors get paid well, and people get medical care when they get sick without losing their homes or going bankrupt.
see "Five Myths About Healthcare Around the World" by T.R. Reid
insurance premiums quadrupling means you shoud really take a second look as to who have gotten you into this mess over along period of time and it does go back along way as to how we got to where we are at today leading up to the ideal of forcing people to buy a policy. It's not true reform and it doesn't take hundreds or thousands of pages for real reform. As long as it is NOT mandatory and I truly have the freedom to choose, then I have no problem with the reform.
sorry, if it's not mandatory, then only the sick will buy the insurance and the premiums will be too expensive to cover the care. You need everyone participating so that premiums stay low for everyone and everyone is then covered if they get sick.
Think of it like fire protection... if only those who used it paid for it, it would cost those people a lot. They probably couldn't afford it. But we all pay a little tax to cover any of us if we need it.
blustms, unfortunately it doesn't wrk that way in a corrupt and greedy society where people are in and out wrk. As much as I would have liked to have maintained coverage there were times in my life where I had to start over. The last thing I'm going to worry about is a mandate telling me what to do an when to do it. If I can't afford coverage due to being out of work for an undeterminable amount of time, I'm going to drop that monthly expense until I find a job that pays well for the long term.
yeah bluestems, we shall see what this wasteful reform really accomplishes, but if the mandatory language stays in the final bill, then I expect a few legal challenges to be made based on the possible unconstitutional langauge in the bill. Bottom line: If prices are fair and coverage is deemed adequate, then I'll maintain a policy as long as I'm employed in a decent paying job. If that is not the case, then guess what, I manage my monthly expenses accordingly.
I've also priced the individually higher cost plans where you are still not getting what you pay for. In my former situation why would I just want to be throwing money away or absorbing the additional expense? And just what type of plans will we be offered and will they be good plans or watered down. If the quality of coverage for a good rate of under $100/mo is not going to be good, then as far as I'm concerned I'm just throwing money away and letting people get away with it.
first the government should eliminate medicare & medicaid fraud and corruption with the money saved from that all could have health care with money left over!
Nothing in the healthcare reform changes our existing services. It reforms insurance. Here's some more stats for you...
the health insurance industry made over 3 billion in profits last year while over 700,000 Americans declared bankruptcy due to medical bills (the majority of those HAD insurance). You shouldn't loose your house, go bankrupt because you get cancer and your insurance denies treatment because you had acne once. The industry needs better regulation.
bluestems what you tend to leave out is the mandatory healthcare requirement which is unconstitutional. You also fail to mention that some of us who are out of work will put our money where it needs to go before we go out and spend on a health insurance policy. That is just a fact of life. I'll decide when I carry insurance and go without and have control over my monthly expenses. The mandatory requirement is unconstitutional and a first sign of very bad govt.
So then, car insurance is unconstitutional too? How about being required to have mortgage insurance?
You may think your health is just your concern... until you become one of the 700,000 Americans every year who has to declare bankruptcy due to medical bills (the majority of who have insurance).
I along with the majority of Americans do not want a libertarian society... if you do, maybe check out Somalia... total FREEDOM and each to his own there. You'd be happy, I'm sure.
Do not even try to play the car insurance angle bluestems and sounds as if you really read too much into my comment. I was trying to make a simple point on what some of the population goes through day in and day out where it is an option for some not to maintain health insurance for a set time as they are saving for relocation or just trying to make their living expenses while trying to reaccess insurance through their next employer. It is possible to do without a car in parts of U.S. fyi.
you are pretty funny bluestems for trying to argue the bankruptcy effect. Hell some of us don't make enough or have any major assets so what the fuck are they going to take from us. Now we might be told to play or pay with mandatory health insurance. Your version of reform can stop right there. Until you have struggled and worked for a living and worked your way up, don't bitch to me with a bunch of jargon and your car insurance arugment is without merit.
I've gone without coverage since 2004 when I left the trucking industry. I've finally found a position where the benefits are actually quite good. From 2004 on though I was in and out of work and saving what I could. I worked positions which did have risk, but never bothered me one bit because my skills kept me in one piece. I also don't forget where I came from and if I ever became unemployed again,I'd drop my coverage again in favor of saving where I could. Does that register with you?
The last time I checked, I don't have to pay for car insurance if I choose not to own a car. I don't have to carry mortgage insurance if I don't choose to own property via a mortgage. Is the arguement supposed to be that if I don't want to carry health insurance, I simply choose to stop living?
You can still have a car and risk driving w/o insurance however you know the risks. You can still have a car and still not have insurance as long as you don't operate it. The real argument is in healthcare costs and the mandate really should've never have been introduced. Won't know realsitcally until the final bill is introduced but sounds as if the mandate will be there which I think is very stupid for Congress to do. Have to wait and see.
If I am ever unemployed again I'm not paying high cobra rates or adding onto my monthly expenses. I retain control of my own finances to meet my living expenses or support relocation to areas with better employment. FYI, I don't through my money at a policy when I'm making $10-$12/hr because I already know I'm getting ripped off and either way I'm bankrupted. It is unconstutional making health insurance mandatory and personally I think you are full of shit.
bluestems I spent the better portion of over 2 years working in temporary office jobs where temp. to perm. jobs were non existent and I never knew when I was going to be out of work. So you are suggesting I should've maintained health insurance all that time or you would put someone else in that situation of having to afford coverage. I saved up what I could with out maintaining coverage so I could finally relocate which did drain my bank account. I knew my situation and how to play it.
Waiting lines are a small part of this health care apocalypse. A study last month asking 2000 doctors within 10 years of retirement, "If this type of health care reform passes what will you be most likely to do?" 87% said that they would retire before this legislation was implemented due to the increase in government bureaucracy and regulations. That should worry everyone, especially if you expand that to a national scale! WE, THE PEOPLE CAN STOP THIS!!!
The AMA supports the reform. From a recent Reuters article, 'American Medical Association backs House health bill':
"This legislation includes a broad range of provisions that are key to effective, comprehensive health system reform, " AMA executive vice president Michael Maves wrote to the House committee leaders.
In particular, he said, the doctors' group backs the insurance market reforms that seek to expand healthcare coverage and the proposed health insurance exchange."
Bluestems you can't force an individual or any one citizen to buy a health insurance policy just because they live. You cannot tell me that the govt. will be forcing another monthly expense on me when I'm unemployed and trying to live off what I've saved while I seek better employement or relocating to a place with better employment. I spent two years working my way up through temp. work where health insurance was not an option for me.
You've done a good job missing my initial point bluestems regarding mandatory health insurance and refused to recognize that everyone's situation is different which leads me to believe that your are hiding a lot. Also it doesn't take 1000+ pages for true reform to happen. It is a red flag when someone tries to enforcement mandatory health insurance. Car insurance you have an option. Health Insurance I guess my only option is if I die. Your problem is you don't respect individual rights.
"which leads me to believe that your are hiding a lot."
lol- I'm just an average American posting a 500 word of less comment on a youtube video... seriously, you are a tool.
Base car insurance is madatory. So would be healthcare... you would have plenty of options, from providers to amount of coverage, just like auto insurance.
Your problem is you don't respect individuals rights over greedy insurance company profits. Go get your check from them...
and you are still responding as you do. I think the point you are missing is that we all have the right to go with/without health insurance at one time or another based on our immediate needs. Sometimes we find ourselves unemployed and then what, I still have to maintain my health coverage. Nope you are not making any sense. Why maintain a plan when I know I'm still responsible for 80/20 60/40 etc. etc. or have a high deductible. Not like I make $7000/month.
bluestems if you can't understand or respect an individual's personal situation or the fact that things change where a person has to adapt and budget his/her own finances accordingly then you have already lost this argument. I simply put forth my concerns about mandatory healh ins. and you came back at me with a very weak argument. Until you have worked for a living or have been dragged through the bowels of the workforce by bad companies, then you are not as average as you might think.
Having health insurance that actually pays for coverage will save families money.
For those who really can't afford the public option rates, there will be subsidies available.
fyi- I'm a 38 mother of two, who worked my way through college and now work FT... your assumption about me is wrong. As is your assumptions about the reform. see w ww do t healthreform g ov for facts about the proposal, not falsehoods from insurance companies trying to keep the status quo.
I ask again then, where is your counter argument regarding why we should have mandatory health insurance. I think I pointed out the circumstances that some of us go through in life and that some of us do work a lot harder for a buck doing manual labor and get treated like shit for doing it. Govt is not solving the problem with 1000+ pages of legislation and as stated before the first sign is when they kick around the ideal of mandatory health coverage. That is not reform bluestems.
bluestems, I know the federal govt. has done a very sloppy job managing its own finances so why take this govt. at face value when they are in debt and start proposing to make health ins. mandatory. If costs were to come down with an increase in policy, I'd maintain a policy. But until that really happens, the last thing I'm going to tolerate is a govt. mandate or else approach. The more people are out of work the less likely they will have coverage and that decision has to be respected.
bluestems I think by deleting my initial message off your homesite is just a sign that your points are one way arguments. You have no real points to make here bluestems.
it's my home page, not a blog for your opinions. I have no need to have you clutter my page with your nonsense. If you grafitti my house, I'd paint over it too.
so you censor your homepage and steer the conversation in the direction you want it to go. ROFLMFAO. Yes of course it is your homepage, but that also tells me you can't make an effective argument the mandatory requirement and I've thrown some realistic situations your way the some of us are in. We manage our finances accordingly so don't come along telling me how to budget what I make as I budget accordingly to whether or not I'll have a job day in and day out as is the case with some of us.
You have made no argument against the mandatory requirement other than "it's my right!"
If that's true, than it's also your right to not get unemployment when you get laid off. It's also your right to loose your house, and all your savings if you get seriously ill. It's your right to die if you can't afford treatment.
Or, as I prefer, we all pay in for insurance so that when any of us gets sick, we are covered & cared for.
bluestems, for preventive care, I can save up just as much and see I doctor when I'm sick, get my medication. Money not thrown away on a bad policy. There is such a thing as let the buyer beware however the buyer is not going to be forced into buying a poor healthcare policy. Sorry the mandatory language from the final bill has to and it is has to left up to freedom to choose without fear of penalty.
we will see on that one. FYI, when I was really sick, my cost to me as a private pay (no insurance) was $59 for the visit and the prescriptions for antibiotics and anti-inflammatories brought the final total to just over $100. I also was maitaining an affordable studio for $410/mo and managed myself accordingly always making sure I had money in the bank. Now you attack me for working my way up and surviving in the workforce. You are not who you say you are bluestems.
you futher decide to block me on your homesite rather than enage me. What does that really say about you bluestems as to where you are truly coming from. Sorry but you just lost the debate and have not really addressed the situation what some of us go through in reality. Again nice try but I see right through you.
And bluestems, I've worked my way up and have earned my living and have gone through a dose of reality. Thankfully I don't forget where I came from and will stand up against unfair practices of a corrupted Federal aristocracy especially when it comes to outside influences that force me to pay for something which adds onto to my monthly expenses unneccessarily. We pay enough as is in taxes and still govt. is in debt. You get a clue and stay out of everyone's personal affairs.
bluestems, I at least have some education backed by solid work experience in the real world. From they way you are commenting, it sounds like you are not a rational person that is educated so I'm also wondering what else you care to sell us on. FYI - The govt. doesn't own a person outright and there is only so much you can force on an individual that works for a living. Some of us are tired of a govt. that just mismanages its resources.
and bluestems, the healthcare issue is not the only thing wrong with this economy. It all goes back to the top of people that have been in power that have failed to do their jobs yet we keep buying into the two party system. There is only so much people will take from failed policies and yes it is our right to rebel against bad govt. or speak out as I'm doing now along with others. You call me a tool instead of making any valid arguments. You are the one that is the tool here.
I've dealt with neighbors that have had shady histories and have done best to keep raising their families. Something that I respect, but at the same time I find society very unforgiving to people that have done their time. So when anyone says mandatory healthcare for all, how about if we take it a step further giving felons/convicts and others a chance that have done their time rather than shut them out of the fucking workforce. That is the American society of today and its fucking pathetic.
remember bluestems: "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
my point is once the Federal govt. has abused the public to such an extent that it will cease to exist and it is no longer an age where govt. can hide its actions from the people. Different time being in the information age. Govt has overstepped its bounds with trying to make health insurance mandatory and all the subsidies/tax credits is nothing but a smoke screen and a redistribution of money with who knows how many new tax scams/penalties they will impose. Beware a govt. in debt.
bluestems you have to take a serious look at who is in Congress and ask yourself if you trust a Congress that has taken advantage of its citizens or other Congressionl members that willfully cheat on their taxes or are quite possibly bought off. Start with going after the corruption first and then come up with a real solution. I respectfully disagree with your basis for mandatory health coverage as it is an unconstitutional mandate that is not being applied equally to everyone.
if I am required to maintain a policy at a certain income level, then it should apply to all income levels. Now one group of people gets subsidies/credits while I'm stuck paying unfair premiums that don't necessarily get me quality coverage. Mandatory healthcare coverage for all needs to be taken off the table. I respectfully disagree with your arguments and my first clue about who I was dealing with is when you brought up the car insurance comparison. Nice try.
"I'm stuck paying unfair premiums that don't necessarily get me quality coverage."
that would be the scenario TODAY.
Please show where in the reform proposal you have deduced that your premiums would be unfair?
Further, the reform would make insurance companies improve coverage but removing pre-existing conditions clauses, maintaining coverage if you loose your job, and improve health care quality and safety.
that is exactly why I haven't forked over one dime for a policy because I knew that I was not getting what I was paid for. My situation was making anywhere between $10-$15 an hour as a temp. worker. Then according to these high deductible plans which are problably the most affordable, I'm being told that either way I'm bankrupted by having to afford my own expenses up to a certain deductible. I can save up my money just as easily and seek preventive care as needed.
You gamble then that you won't get seriously ill, get in an accident, etc. If you do, you could be looking at thousands of dollars for treatment, or you could just die if you can't afford it.
Or, you could purchase an affordable public option that ensures you will be covered for your bills (the reform also removes benefit limits).
Like I said, this is not a new, untested concept. Plenty of other countries have various forms of universal healthcare that works a lot better than ours.
hell yeah, I wouldn't mind just being taking off life support and sticking the rest of you greedy bastards with the bill. Don't have to wory about anything when I'm dead and literally past a certain point in life, I rather I just drop dead of a heart attack especially if I'm still single. Best way to exit life rather then maintain treatments for cancer and such. Just give me that medical marijuana and let me go out my own way. As long as I'm alive, I'm not suffering financially under tyrrany.
bluestems, some of your comments lead me to believe that you might not be as educated as you say you are and I seriously doubt you are a mother of two. Also some signs were when you tended to control arguments on your homesite which tells me the type of person I'm dealing with is just trying to sell a lopsided viewpoint to people that have had enough common sense to speak out against the true nature of our current govt. and its intent.
your comments lead me to believe you're an idiot, young and with no clue.
btw- if you're threatening to revolt... go for it. Majority of Americans support our country, and the current reform. I'm tired of extremists thinking they own this country.
bluestems it isn't the country, it is the people in Congress that are corrupt and until a sensible code of ethics is enforced on Congress, the expect all the abuses of power and corruption to continue. So I'm an idiot for working my way up in the work force and deeming how best to manage myself. Fine it shows how limitied you are in your viewpoints of the working class. FYI, that quote is from the Declaration of Independence and just a reminder that it is We the People and not We the Govt.
bluestems if you think you can manage without people that work for a living then move your own furniture, pickup your own goods that you rely on to live as I may not be around to haul it for you and supply your own energy and run your city/town by yourself and while you are at it make your own gasoline and fix your own means of transportation. Remember it takes a majority to do the stuff you don't want to do in life and some of us do make our minor contributions and have a voice.
You know I'm finally starting to see this mandatory health insurance mandate for what it really is and how it makes one group of people demonize the other side. The real issue here is the high cost of healthcare (NOT INSURANCE) which is unrelated to the insurance mandate scam this govt. is trying to force upon us. To say that the uninsured are pushing rates up is bullshit. Take a second look at what really pushed up costs, but don't give the fucking insurance companies excess business.
how will the president be able to assure patients get quality health care? with such a huge cut in doctors pay checks, i do not believe they will be very reliable, or want to participate in this reform... also by paying them by the quality of work can back fire as well. who is to say doctors will not falsify a patients diagnoses so they will get paid more.
Funniest thing I have seen is how many politicians are afraid to buck the insurance companies. If the insurance companies stopped real quick you would have to pry over half of congress out of their asses. LOL This is what our political system has come to. A disregard for the majority while picking up the spoils of the corporations. Like a little birdie sitting in the nest with their mouths open ready to be fed. On the flip side they are really easy. Money trumps power every time.
Is this video for real? They make it sound like people in other modern Countries are having to wait years to get special treatments. A relative of mine in Germany was diagnosed with colon cancer and was in surgery days later at no cost to him or his family. Another relative of mine was diagnosed with prostate cancer and couldnt get surgery for a month. He and his wife now have a ton of medical bills. These medical ads are made by greedy people who take advantage of uninformed people.
Where to start? First of all the numbers you give have no causal implication on their own until you chose to give them one. The other things are as follows: If you have an HMO it is difficult to see a specialist. You speak of the imminent future where we will run out of specialists to deal with all our bad choices then in the same breath say that prevention isn't as important as NOW. Make up your mind. We need to do this RIGHT and not band aid an issue that is feeding on itself w/sickness.
Isn't creating an advocacy video that purports to be looking out for the best interests of patients a little self-serving for Biomet, Inc., the company behind this video? Biomet would seem to have a vested interest in wanting to deal more with the "very sick", since they make specialized medical hardware that could be avoided in some cases with better preventative care. Lowering medical costs and increasing prevention is what health insurance reform is attempting to do, but it's bad for Biomet.
We absolutely have an agenda, which is to ensure ongoing access to orthopedic surgeons for those in need. We also absolutely believe in the value of what we do and what our customers do for patients, in both economic and human terms, for our society.
The fact that we are advocating on behalf of our customers and their patients does not invalidate our arguments. The facts are what they are. Reducing access to surgeons who treat the #1 cause of disability in the U.S. is bad policy.
We should also state again for the record that opposition to certain provisions of healthcare reform legislation as written does not mean blanket opposition to healthcare reform conceptually. We never state that prevention is bad or should not be funded. We strongly disagree with the concept that has been promulgated frequently by numerous policymakers that specialists are the problem and we need fewer of them. We need more prevention and timely treatment--not one or the other.
My problem is this video also makes some major assumptions. Like the goal will be to deny those who are already sick. There are some signifiant waits. I personally feel that anything longer than a week to see a specialist is too long. Often to see your insurance approved specialist, you need to wait at least a month. This doesn't happen in places like Japan, where you can just walk into the specialist to have something looked at the very same day. Do some research, it's pretty amazing.
There are no assumptions in the video. The data are before healthcare reform. It's reasonable to assume it will get worse as healthcare reform increases coverage and reduces specialist pay, but we don't need to assume that to demonstrate the impending shortage of surgical specialists. To refute the data, you need either better/alternative data or to make assumptions yourself. Again, these are not OUR numbers or reinterpreted data. It's all government, OECD, and MGMA.
The Democratic Party leadership is tainted by corruption and being taken over by Socialists. These Socialists are clearly a threat to everything we hold sacred in America, and they are gaining evermore control over our Democratic Party, our Nation, and the American people.
Despite this, all we need to do is cut off donations to the local, state, and national headquarters of the Democratic Party, and to make sure the donations are made directly to honorable Democratic Party candidates.
the entire system at the federal level would seem to have been infiltrated by corporate money. Doesn't matter who it is any more. If what I read was correct and if there is no effective ethical enforcement in Congress, then as I might have stated prior, it doesn't matter who gets voted in since an independent enforcement commission on ethics might not even exist.
Call it the entire system. I choose my battles you choose yours. Republicons started the unethical run of our government in 2000. So they are who I am against.
jay123jd, my argument is that if there are no code of ethics being enforced or seriously abided by due to lack of enforcement by an independent body then expect those same violations to continue regardless of who is in Congress. The first sign is a forced health care mandate which is really unconstitutional and now what would you think would be next beyond that? Eventually the more in debt. the Federal govt. goes the less credibility the Federal govt. will have. A lot to be considered.
Hey I see where you are coming from. I have a bone to pick with men who would rather look the other way and let this country fall on its ear than try and throw it a lifeline. Nobody is perfect. But the incompetence at high level leads me to believe things were done on purpose or should I say not done on purpose. Voting for a republicon is paramount to harboring and protecting the pirates off the coast of Africa.
And lightning struck twice in my lifetime. First the the savings and loan scandals that babkrupted farmers and others who had money in these institutions. Fastforward to 2000. Credit default swaps(insuring a bet to lose shares on a company without putting money up to buy shares) Naked short selling(buying stock shares on paper that do not exist and therefore waterdown the existing stocks. Same tactics used prior to the Great Depression. Sadly most people do not have a clue.Greedy republicons!
believe me Republicans will not be getting my vote and rest assured neither will Democrats. I'm looking more at Independent candidates going forward anyway and that is how I will vote in the future. Also I find it funny how parties complain when a third candidate siphons votes away from them. My view is if they bitch like that then they don't deserve to win. All I can say to you jay123jd is that may the best qualified candidate of your choice win in your neck of the woods. Regards.
My neck of the woods is Texas, they believe in the rights by and for the mighty insurance companies. So regardless of who wins I know an insurance company will be raising my rates on my next statement.
I use to work for one jay123jd as well as have seen what happens when one gets on Cobra and has to pay the full rates. It is insane. The way some companies work the system, they will charge on usage and yes females are charged at a higher rate over males. Pretty fucked up.
We had Ike hit here a little over a year ago. My property insurance company let me know earlier this week that our Governor Perry approved an increase in rates before Ike hit. lololo Shows you how money talks and bullshit walks when you got a republicon governor.
nowadays the way I see things, it is like why even own a house when you are subjected to paying repeated property taxes and constantly maintain insurance on it. Doesn't seem like it is worth the investment sometimes unless you can buy a house outright. Insurance has become more of a gamble nowadays vs. affordable if health rates do eventually go up, then that industry will just implode in on itself.
a little bit more about insurance, it is a factor in the trucking industry as well and determines whether or not you can get a job at some companies. Because of lack of experience one is barred from accessing the better paying openings. It is not that the trucking company doesn't want to hire you, insurance has played a detrimental role in that industry for years. Looks as if insurance in general has been pulling the strings for years. Just another aspect of a fucked up economy.
215 Trillion a year is spent on health care divded by 305 million Americans means you could pay every doctor $250,000 a year and he would only have 7 patients!
All of our money is being ripped off by Private Insurance and their greed along with their lobby.
The reason there would be any line whatsoever waiting for treatment would be covering people that never had healthcare in the first place. These greedy morons would rather see people go without any form of heathcare than sit in the doctors office for another 15 minutes. Really disgusting.
"Waiting in line for specialists"? You mean like my Blue Cross HMO plan, where I have to see my PCP to get a referral request to see a specialist, wait at least a week to see if it's approved, then IF it's approved, get an appt. at least a month and a half down the road? So the total wait time is over two months? Which is what happened to me, while my problem got worse. & then the idiot specialist misdiagnosed me, so I had to go through it AGAIN! Yep, private insurance is the answer, bub.
and my PPO with the 2 million dollar lifetime maximum doesn't sound any better especially with the normal 80/20 and whatever other out of pocket crap. However the preventive care is good but yeah it does all suck nowadays. Damned one way or the other.
The point is that by boosting preventive care we will, in the long run, get out of this mess. This movie already acknowledges that we are screwed with our current healthcare system driven by profit margins. Obviously we have less orthopedic surgeons if the insurance companies are not paying out either! Point the finger where it should be pointed. At insurance companies ho provide poor preventive care and then shrug their shoulders when the big bills start rolling in.
Those who are for the Obama/Democratic Healthcare Reform Package have convinced themselves that those who are opposed to it are opposed to Healthcare Reform in General. NOTHING could be further from the truth.
Have any of you wondered why there are NO Og/Gyn's in some state & why 20% of babies in the USA are delivered by "C-Section"? While the EU & UK have plenty of Ob/Gyn's and only 6% of babies there are delivered by "C-Section"?
LAW SUITS! Esp. some BIG CLASS ACTION SUITS by JOHN EDWARDS!
Tradition, if you want tort reform go to the states. Lobby right in your own state, hell lobby in the state next to your state. Everyone with a brainstem knows OB/GYN's need tort reform before we lose their service. This is a state issue. The feds cannot doing anything on their behalf. If your state legislators are too stupid, who are you blaming , what is your remedy? Another conservative without any concept of law. That is why we are in this mess. Give, give, give, to the insurance companies.
what does each individual in their respective states want to do then let the public in each state execute it already. All your state governments have ethics they are supposed to abide by. Have they of have they not abided by there ethical standards that YOU (the public) are suppose to be holding them accountable to?
If the states lets lawsuits go forward on doctors that have shown neglect in their job duties, you have to take that up with the state legislators. They can pass laws that would dramatically reduce the amount of money that can be sued for. In Texas they chopped it off at $250,000. Reasonable for doctors but not reasonable for contractors working in the petro-chem. field. If say Exxon through neglect kills your family member working on their property, the family is only entitled to $250,000.
This is really an issue that needs to be addressed by itself. Whether the health care reform passes or not this problem is going to be there. But what incentive is there to be a Dr? Money, but money only goes so far. Who really wants to waste years of their lives studying? At the same time, we need these specialists. The results of being a doctor are desired, but not the job. We need to make being a specialist desirable, and money just isn't the answer
The word Fascism is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it's used even more wildly than in print. I've heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, foxhunting, bullfighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestleys broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else... almost any English person would accept bully as a synonym for Fascist George Orwell
I work hard and pay taxes but cannot afford health care. Legislators, USE MY TAXES RESPONSIBLY to give me a public health care option, just like you use them for public highways, libraries, schools, and police services. Lower incomes should not equal lesser access to infrastructure, information, education, protection, OR health care.
This is not a binary argument. The video does not argue against healthcare reform writ large. It merely argues that we are facing a shortage of specialists and that currently-proposed policies will make that worse. We shouldn't fear healthcare reform--we NEED healthcare reform. What we don't need is less access to specialists. Unfortunately, that's where the currently-proposed policies are leading us.
If you can't get treatment when you need it, the insurance isn't much help.
On the contrary, if you can't get specialist treatment, the insurance is of huge importance to keep you healthy while you wait. Or even better, possibly fix the problem before it requires a specialist.
I know your argument is focused on the people that need specialists now, but to make a video that highly suggests not going with the reform bill is more dangerous than the shortage we face. If we stall on health care any longer we are going to have another generation of unhealthy people to save.
Again, this is NOT a binary argument.--it is possible (indeed, we believe it is responsible and an obligation) to scrutinize the health reform legislation in its entirety and speak out on those provisions that are bad policy. That's what we're doing. We absolutely support greater access to care, coverage of those in need, and controlling cost. We do NOT support paying for it by reducing access to highly trained specialists who treat complex disorders of patients who most need treatment.
this nation is becoming the soviet union and your dope and change is coming,good luck in the future,your going to need it when your life and death are decided by your govt.
ajack50 2 years ago
nope the nation will never be the Soviet Union. Too many people adjusted to a certain way of life Can't control the masses this time around especially in an information age. The system is made up of layers of govt. and the Federal/State/Local Levels so some level will fight back and it probably will be States vs. Federal abuses/tyranny. Just one scenario, but frankly voters have to start realizing that the two party system is not their friend. That might still take some convincing.
shaithis45 2 years ago 2
If someone wants to drink a 1000 cokes a day, what BUSINESS is that of mine. What ever happened to LIVE&LET LIVE for Christ's sake. Nobody has a personal choice anymore. Your ideas & choices are yours to make, Nobody elses. I got a full time job, Tending my own business, Let alone someone elses. Mind your business, And let others mind their's.
teto1957 2 years ago
Its ment to mesh into Codex Alumintarius. So people will get nutrision from chemical means not food. Specialists will not be needed duie to common causes of death IE scurvie. Life expectancys will plummet making global predictions of population control jump for joy at our death and missery. Dont have to critisize me research it your selves. The News will not tell you untill its too late.
deathmarch5 2 years ago
gotta love those fatty chemically processed foods. Last I checked, sodie was chock full of chemicals. It is easy to commii to degradation of your health. Just drink 100 Cokes a day. You might get that energy rush you were looking for however it'll also clean your insides out and then some :)
shaithis45 2 years ago
I am an anesthesiologist (albeit disabled due to an 'invisible' diagnosis, Dysautonomia. People lay bed-ridden with this disease for ?15 years? Standing = Fainting for us. Took me 6 months to get a diagnosis, but that was after fighting for my life, refusing to go to a nursing home without a diagnosis, and...the future looks scary. Bunches of medical students went into Family Practice back in 1996 when Hillary wanted to change the health care system.. Healthy? Run, swim, enjoy life, thank God.
DysautonomiaMD 2 years ago
dont let the health care deform happen!
supers1llystr1ng 2 years ago 2
This health care debate should be dropped. Next we need to support farmers' rights for growing organic Marijuana and selling it directly to the public w/ all applicable Federal/State/Local taxes. That would fill ye old coffers of Fed/State/Local budgest alike. Then we can smuggle our legal product back into Mexico and make it a two way street vs. a one way street. We need to have some type of export going south of the border am I right? Put them Mexican weed wackers out of business yes?
shaithis45 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
watch youtube video: The Health Care Bill: What they DON'T want you to know!
wethepeopleUSA2012 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
watch youtube video: The Health Care Bill: What they DON'T want you to know!
wethepeopleUSA2012 2 years ago
So, according to the data shown here, all the countries that have government run health care have more specialists per patient and those specialists are better paid. So, while the US free market system is failing to provide sufficient specialists, other countries have the solution. (Please watch it again with this in mind.)
We need a health care system that's accountable to the people it serves.
pzulwisner 2 years ago
"Free market?" There is almost nothing about our healthcare system that resembles a free market.
The person who needs health care doesn't purchase it. The provider of healthcare is not paid by the person who needs it. The people who pay for it don't receive it.
Other countries have wrestled with shortages/waiting lines and adapted. Proposed legislation will force us to relearn lessons already addressed by Canada and the UK, in the case of joint replacement.
OnePatient 2 years ago
Not one government controlled program has succeeded...NEVER! If this gets implemented, it will be permanent and life as we know it will be gone. We cannot afford this irresponsible 2000-page bill that no one really knows what's in it. Scary!!! We need to take time and get something that works for everyone, not just for 15% of the population.
Linda3365 2 years ago
"Not one government controlled program has succeeded...NEVER!" and that's exactly why we should privatize all education, the military, police, fire departments and interstate highways. Why should I have to pay more taxes just so the government will put out your house fire for free? I'd rather just buy fire fighting insurance or have my own solution.
pzulwisner 2 years ago
well pzulwisner, if they do want to create jobs, they can always transform their lovely interstate system into toll roads. will provide jobs having to transform them miles of existing interstate and provide future jobs as there will be a need for toll booth workers. Same goes for as if the roads were to be privatized. toll road nation with them funds hopefully going towards some much needed maintenance :)
shaithis45 2 years ago
people know whats in the bill... its probably one of the most heavily scrutinized bills in history. Which is why it has grown so much since its introduction. "this we dont know whats in the bill" crap is something fox news just uses to scare people. Do you know whats in any bill? unless you have a law degree and understand all the legal jargon... you probably dont have a clue whats in any bill, regardless of length. We probably know more about the healthcare bill than any other bill in the past
mark1m 2 years ago
LOL
I am sure you have read and absorbed everything that is in this bill.
You lying sack of shit
Fuck off you fucking fuck
TAMARLANE 2 years ago
What people know?
Linda3365 2 years ago
hey man there's not that many bills that make you navigate through the whole document, flipping and flipping and flipping pages just so you can read one paragraph
leadpndguitar 2 years ago
all bills that pass through congress are just as complicated. The more changes a bill proposes... the more pages it is. I can guarantee your congressman knows more about this healthcare bill than any other bill during the past 2 decades. Granted the public doesnt have a clue whats in it... but the public also has never even tried to read a bill before. Especially because the healthcare lobbyists have made sure to read every line of text looking for any possible angle to attack it from.
mark1m 2 years ago
bullshit, not all bills are even close to that complicated. go and read a couple. bullshit, my congressman has admitted to never reading and not even caring what's in the bill. bullshit, the public is getting a general idea of what's in the bill, and YES THE GENERAL PUBLIC HAS READ MANY MANY BILLS!!!!! and as for your last sentence i must agree...
leadpndguitar 2 years ago
congressman dont read most bills. They have aids read it for them.
and how many bills have you read in the past? im willing to bet the number is 0. In fact im willing to bet the number is 0 for everyone posting on this video.
mark1m 2 years ago
The video is accurate in many ways, but fails to address the many other factors involved in cost of medical care, practicing defensive medicine, cost of advertisement of insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and hospitals! The same source (OECD) clearly states that the US is the number 1 spender on healthcare 13% of GDP but we are not healthier than most countries. Prevention is cheaper and treatment is more expensive, specialists are necessary but should not be first line treatment.
toby8rosco 2 years ago
I don't believe it is accurate at all. There are pleny of specialists and always will be, there is money to be made there. You are for sure correct on everything else. The video starts out stating wait times in other countries. That is very misleading. In Canada it is VERY rare and when it is crucial for immediate care the patient can come the to the US and the Canadian government pays for it. The fear mongering and lies out there are un-real!
phillipmarch22 2 years ago
My video shows the future of healthcare
TruthB4You 2 years ago
~ ~ ~ ~ AND THE INDEPENDENTS HAVE SPOKEN!!! ~ ~ ~ ~
Congrats to the conservatives in Virginia.
Now on to Jersey ......
Get involved in your local government.
GO to civic meetings. ( more than one, to get the real feel for themmm)
GO to City Council Meetings ...
CALL your local delegate to TELL them your ideas...
GET INVOLVED!!!!
WorkingMotherof2 2 years ago
THANK GOD FOR BARACK H. OBAMA
amminadab2010 2 years ago
our health care is an amendment right..no way would we ever settle for others making our decisions! the cost is high cause hospitals charge for meds that are never given...& charge for test 2 or 3 times! a tylenol is $20.00..eh??
baysideful 2 years ago
yes we have the right to life, but the HR3200 bill will make things a LOT worse. The government is bankrupt.....worse than bankrupt actually, trillions upon trillions of dollars in debt, it would work out better if the healthcare industry took over the government, it's working a lot better. You obviously have never had to work with our federal beurocract in trying to get anything done, have you experienced the web of red tape?
thinkingcloud 2 years ago 2
thinkingcloud, the problem with our govt. today is that they are too chickenshit to implement anything immediately and people want to see immediate results and change. Well they got until next year to bring the cost of healthcare down before most of them will be looking for a new job. I've had it with a govt. says it needs years to implement something. Sounds very political vs. beneficial to the public. I agree with you and I'm under the impression never to trust a govt. in debt.
shaithis45 2 years ago
the government is not supposed to work like that!! what if everything that was proposed and made to sound good like health care was immediately rammed through congress without serious debate? or especially THE INTERESTS OF THEIR CONSTITUENTS, besides, everyone in congress WORKS FOR THEIR CONSTITUENTS, right? i mean that's the way it's supposed to work
leadpndguitar 2 years ago
lpg, all one can do is wait for the govt. to act then react. I'm just waiting to see how far govt. at the Federal level tries to push stuff on the public that is unconstitutional before states start fighting back. There is such a thing as bad govt. and I think the mandate for people to buy insurance or be fined is fair warning of bad govt. Just need to vote out the garbage and actually start seeing 66% of the vote going towards real candidates vs. candidates that are self serving.
shaithis45 2 years ago
The sad thing is the lifers in Washington are clueless. They are so entrenched in the Washington bureaucratic bull they no longer do what is right for American.
quizerry 2 years ago
The cost is high because of lack of competition. The Government controls production and consumption through rules and regulations. They set the prices for 1/2 the healthcare sector directly and the other 1/2 indirectly throught medicare/medicaid. They have allowed the monopolies in Insurance in each state. A public option would not be competition because Government can charge artificialy lower prices and make up for it through taxes. Government is the problem not the solution.
quizerry 2 years ago
If I had to choose between the Government and the private health insurance industry, I would choose the Government any day of the week. If you told Medicare patients that if they could keep the money that they take out of their social security for Medicare and said that you are on your own and have to buy private insurance, the elderly would be screaming for their Medicare. There are NO, NONE, ZERO consumer protections placed on the PHI industry.
phillipmarch22 2 years ago
no we don't have long waits because r docs make millions!!! not so in other countries...they make like $50,000.00..the vid is not accurate ..@ all..!!
baysideful 2 years ago
remember those mythological Obama "death panels" that Sarah Palin screamed about? While they never did exist in Obama's reform plan, they do exist in that Republican-led state of Texas! The Texas Futile Care Law allows a committee appointed by a hospital corporation to overrule families and pull the plug on granny if the hospital deems any more treatment to be "futile." It was signed into law by--guess who?--Governor George W. Bush.
phillipmarch22 2 years ago
as far as my last job was concerned, I was being used as a temp. and not getting my full paycheck because I had to fucking commute getting paid $12/hr. Tack on the high cost of gas and my take home pay is reduced. Thanks for pushing up the cost of fuel. Yep I was working for a company that failed to convert me over to permanent with possible benefits after six months. W/ my pay being retarded for that long, I was just going to save my money and cut my expenses. Your situations may hve varied.
shaithis45 2 years ago
the last thing I'm going to do is demonize a person that doesn't have health insurance because I don't know that person's situation. Why will I be getting health insurance? Because I finally found a fucking job that pays well and subsidizes benefits and it took the better part of a few years of going without health insurance and not forking money over for stupid high deductible plans and working my way back up in a tight economy to make that happen. That is as realistic as life gets folks.
shaithis45 2 years ago
here is what should really happen. Keep pushing those health insurance rates up and when people can no longer afford it and start doing zero business with insurance companies, then perhaps the industry itself will crash as it should because of all the greed, corruption, and lack of enforcement and a real solution which lead up to it. Then perhaps in the aftermath new insurance companies will spring up with fairer policies forcing the corrupt ones out. That is being realistic.
shaithis45 2 years ago
I've heard there is a waiting list to get into Calif medical schools. Too many US citizens are waiting in line behind foreign students to attend a medical university in the United States.
albaa5az 2 years ago
Come to Washington on November 5th and tell your Representative to keep their hands off your health care!
If you can't make it to Washington, go to your Member's district office. And, if you can't do that, you need to call and email. We can defeat this!
The Time: 12:00 PM
The Place: The steps of the US Capitol
The Reason: Stop the insanity from spreading any further!
dantheleo 2 years ago
I don't have any health care,
can I still come?
blingbling65943 2 years ago
Also we are not another country BB. We are a nation with individual rights and once we feel our rights have been infringed by a govt. that thinks it can tell you that you will take on more in monthly expenses is no longer a govt. that really can be trusted. The mandate will be constitutionally challenge and we the people can manage our monthly expenses just fine. That is your problem and not my problem if you are paying for overpriced care. Find a more realistic solution.
shaithis45 2 years ago
The shortage of medical specialist has existed long before the idea of health care reform. This is because the education in the US doesnt teach kids the necessary material to become doctors or engineer, most of them go to college to learn web design or advertising. This is why most Doctors and engineers in the US are immigrants from other countries
Why does nobody address the fact that our current health care is 37th in the world due to its corrupt profit making interests?
Narut0SaiyaN 2 years ago
Just depends on what the student is interested in pursuing. Then again has the education really been revised to streamline the process where students are focusing on just the courses that are needed to become a medical professional or are colleges still pushing the basic education along side it? And was there ever a time once when med school was evern affordable? Nowadays the higher education system is geared towards higher costs and it comes with a price of some not accessing higher education
shaithis45 2 years ago
K-12 education should be reformed to where a High School education has more value to where said student can enter the work force with a beefed up diploma with an emphasis in something or move on to higher education. However higher education shouldn't take another 4 years. Teach the higher math and real English courses at the earlier grade levels and let them actually get college credit for it so they don't have to waste time repeating courses that are unnecessary.
shaithis45 2 years ago
I've made my points here on this post. Anyone thinking I'm a tool is wrong because I've already lived through the rough patches and have endured with others and can tell you first hand that not everyone is treated fairly in the real world and there are others out there that will try to fuck up whatever little you have going. I just work and enjoy life and don't worry about whether or not I have health ins. And regardless I'm always there for my friends as they were for me. L8TR.
shaithis45 2 years ago
to anyone that doesn't have any assets/retirement/house/expensive car, what the hell do we have to lose with inflated medical costs. There is nothing anyone can take from you. However as you dig out and progress, then yes it makes sense to carry health ins. but not when you are living paycheck to paycheck or know you might be out of work sometime in the future. I stand by my point that mandatory health insurance is unconstitutional and doesn't solve anything.
shaithis45 2 years ago
You seem like a very reasonable person. But in regards to you opinion on national health care and it being mandatory, you have absolutely no idea what the hell you are talking about.
If you lived in another county for a week, you would see how incredible stupid your current views are.
blingbling65943 2 years ago
because insuring everyone doesn't bring health care costs down. What has been proposed by the U.S. govt. in regards to mandatory insurance is such a one sided argument. If health care costs were to truly come down, then insurance would come down with it. A play or pay approach by the govt. is unconstitutional and it doesn't solve the problem. Gets us back the question on who Congress is really working for.
shaithis45 2 years ago
There is very little wrong with health insurance.
I have health ($400.00/month), home owners and auto insurance (package for$210.00/ month), that I pay for.
I have had one auto accident in my life, cost $1400.00, I have had one incident of storm damage to my house, cost $2600.00. In 2002 I was diagnosed with Acute Myeloid Leukemia Cost=>$500,000.00.
I have paid in more and recieved less on all other insurance than I have on helath insurance. Health insurance saved my life.
IMPLR1369007 2 years ago
The mindset I tend to be in nowadays is why go into debt to stay alive? Why struggle with paying $400/mo health care premiums if one doesn't make enough to support that type of premium? Why pay for a policy where you know that either way you are screwed? Why is a mandate even being brought up? Have the root causes of skyrocketing costs even been addressed? What I'm pointing out is we are in and out of work all the time, yet we are expected to maintain constant health insurance?
shaithis45 2 years ago
I don't advocate mandatory insurance, I merely cite that insurance (if you get sick) is a bargain. the real problem is the high cost of health care, not the insurance. if health care were cheaper, insurance would also be cheaper. Imagine if you could get health insurance for less than say $100.00 a month? If insurance companies were not required to pay for law suits for malpractice, the cost of all insurance including health insurance would be lower, without all the government involvement.
IMPLR1369007 2 years ago
and that is where I'm at now as I finally found a job that subsidizes it. A job that I relocated to. While it is still not a great bargain as compared to more expensive options through my job it is a start. What I was dealing with before in the workforce were unstable and short term positions so going back and forth between employment and unemployement and piling on the cost of a policy where I know I'll go bankrupt via high deductible didn't make me want to go out and get a policy.
shaithis45 2 years ago
I understood about the importance of carrying insurance a long time ago but after my stint in trucking I just left that field behind because it wasn't worth what I was making and I could've cared less about the benefits. It just took awhile to restructure and get to where I'm at now. There are always risk involved in life and I leave up to people to manage and determine what is best for them. Have to wait and see if this upcoming health legislation actually work and time will tell. Gd luck
shaithis45 2 years ago
It is easy for people with stable careers to say to others that have struggled why are you not maintaining your health insurance? Gee perhaps because I know I'm in a position where I'm in and out of jobs or the only way to build myself back up was through temporary employment that would never go permanent and I'd have less income on unempolyment between positions. Society isn't perfect and people cut expenses where they have to in order to live. I considered health ins. an expense since '05.
shaithis45 2 years ago
and in 2004 I went without coverage while trying to rebuild my life. 2005 I learned I couldn't get coverage since I was working a position based in CA and my residential address was out of state. Independent health coverage was a joke and still is. Come Dec. 2006, I exhaust my savings settling locally into a town and just working my way back up since being turned down by other industries. And I'm expected to maintain health insurance?
shaithis45 2 years ago
present day: I've finally found stable employment in relocating elsewhere for and where I'm working now offers some type of effective/immediate coverage but I'm not breaking the bank doing it. If I ever found myself unemployed again, I wouldn't maintain Cobra because the full cost of maintaining a pricey policy just adds to my montly expenses while I'm unemployed for indefinite amounts of time. I worked and never bitched to govt. about affordability. I just did without health ins.
shaithis45 2 years ago
so final cost to me is around $66/mo. It will go up come 2010 but not by much and I do make enough to carry it so it is a nice change of pace and that should kick in next month if all goes well. My more expensive choice was $300+/mo and I just steered clear of that. Of course if I lost that job then depending on my immediate health concerns I just might not carry insurance in between jobs unless I had a considerable amount of savings in the bank. Just depends on where I'm at financially.
shaithis45 2 years ago
and one wonders why I blocked shaithis45... what a tool.
bluestems 2 years ago
bluestems, as an educated person you should have enough sense to realize that things were not always like this and hospital rates were probably once very reasonable. Do you ever consider the root causes as to why things are artificially high w/ the medical industry? Govt. has dropped the ball and now their solution is 100% coverage for all. You call me a tool and I'm being as realistic as possible. You choose to trust the govt. fine see what happens, I'll be standing up against bad govt.
shaithis45 2 years ago
Medical insurance in itself has now become more of a ponzi scheme that has gone out of scope with the market. Medical rates that have skyrocketed have also gone out of scope with the marketplace. Someone has had a hand in making it that way and there are a lot of factors that really haven't been addressed. People having health insurance doesn't address the root causes and you accept the mandatory requirement without question. You don't have any real clue here bluestems. You are a tool.
shaithis45 2 years ago
bluestems, I've lead my life as an individual and have given my own perspective on things considering that there are others just like me living single. We are just not going to be subjected to certain govt. requirements if we are unemployed at times and just living off whatever little savings we have. Takes awhile to achieve stability, but at the same time I'll make sure I manage my own finances so I don't have to rely on others and I've done that successfully.
shaithis45 2 years ago
yet even during rough times, I have helped my neighbors and have given out food and a little money and assisted with driving them places because I never cared about the money. That is where I come from and I respect my hard working neighbors that are struggling to. For all that I've done my neighbors have kicked me down meals and have invitied me into their place at times to socialize or celebrate the holidays and I'm grateful to have shared what I could. That is the type of person I really am.
shaithis45 2 years ago
bluestems, I've said this before on another post and I'll say it to you. People that bitch that the uninsured are costing them money are full of shit. You chose to enter into business of paying for an expensive policy. That is your problem, not my problem. If you or anyone else want to blame the common person for running up prices then you are fighting the wrong battle. Find a cheaper policy or fight back. Don't bitch to me that some of us have in some way driven your insurance rates up.
shaithis45 2 years ago
This video is just a scare tactic... every developed country in the world has universal healthcare (not always single payer) and pay less than we do for their care, and get better care (we rank 37th in health stats)
They don't have a shortage of doctors, doctors get paid well, and people get medical care when they get sick without losing their homes or going bankrupt.
see "Five Myths About Healthcare Around the World" by T.R. Reid
bluestems 2 years ago
insurance premiums quadrupling means you shoud really take a second look as to who have gotten you into this mess over along period of time and it does go back along way as to how we got to where we are at today leading up to the ideal of forcing people to buy a policy. It's not true reform and it doesn't take hundreds or thousands of pages for real reform. As long as it is NOT mandatory and I truly have the freedom to choose, then I have no problem with the reform.
shaithis45 2 years ago
sorry, if it's not mandatory, then only the sick will buy the insurance and the premiums will be too expensive to cover the care. You need everyone participating so that premiums stay low for everyone and everyone is then covered if they get sick.
Think of it like fire protection... if only those who used it paid for it, it would cost those people a lot. They probably couldn't afford it. But we all pay a little tax to cover any of us if we need it.
bluestems 2 years ago
blustms, unfortunately it doesn't wrk that way in a corrupt and greedy society where people are in and out wrk. As much as I would have liked to have maintained coverage there were times in my life where I had to start over. The last thing I'm going to worry about is a mandate telling me what to do an when to do it. If I can't afford coverage due to being out of work for an undeterminable amount of time, I'm going to drop that monthly expense until I find a job that pays well for the long term.
shaithis45 2 years ago
yeah bluestems, we shall see what this wasteful reform really accomplishes, but if the mandatory language stays in the final bill, then I expect a few legal challenges to be made based on the possible unconstitutional langauge in the bill. Bottom line: If prices are fair and coverage is deemed adequate, then I'll maintain a policy as long as I'm employed in a decent paying job. If that is not the case, then guess what, I manage my monthly expenses accordingly.
shaithis45 2 years ago
I've also priced the individually higher cost plans where you are still not getting what you pay for. In my former situation why would I just want to be throwing money away or absorbing the additional expense? And just what type of plans will we be offered and will they be good plans or watered down. If the quality of coverage for a good rate of under $100/mo is not going to be good, then as far as I'm concerned I'm just throwing money away and letting people get away with it.
shaithis45 2 years ago
Over 700,000 Americans declare bankruptcy every year due to medical bills, and the majority of these HAVE insurance.
Over 40 million Americans have no insurance at all.
In the past 8 years, Americans have seen their insurance premiums quadruple.
We pay on average $3k per year more for healthcare than any other country in the world, yet rank 37th in health stats.
The reform measure helps with better regulation and more affordable public options.
bluestems 2 years ago
first the government should eliminate medicare & medicaid fraud and corruption with the money saved from that all could have health care with money left over!
billthestinker 2 years ago
Fuck the government health care
bert77777 2 years ago
jay123jd - Liberals never do like to hear the truth, facts or statistics!
dantheleo 2 years ago
Nothing in the healthcare reform changes our existing services. It reforms insurance. Here's some more stats for you...
the health insurance industry made over 3 billion in profits last year while over 700,000 Americans declared bankruptcy due to medical bills (the majority of those HAD insurance). You shouldn't loose your house, go bankrupt because you get cancer and your insurance denies treatment because you had acne once. The industry needs better regulation.
bluestems 2 years ago
bluestems what you tend to leave out is the mandatory healthcare requirement which is unconstitutional. You also fail to mention that some of us who are out of work will put our money where it needs to go before we go out and spend on a health insurance policy. That is just a fact of life. I'll decide when I carry insurance and go without and have control over my monthly expenses. The mandatory requirement is unconstitutional and a first sign of very bad govt.
shaithis45 2 years ago
So then, car insurance is unconstitutional too? How about being required to have mortgage insurance?
You may think your health is just your concern... until you become one of the 700,000 Americans every year who has to declare bankruptcy due to medical bills (the majority of who have insurance).
I along with the majority of Americans do not want a libertarian society... if you do, maybe check out Somalia... total FREEDOM and each to his own there. You'd be happy, I'm sure.
bluestems 2 years ago
Do not even try to play the car insurance angle bluestems and sounds as if you really read too much into my comment. I was trying to make a simple point on what some of the population goes through day in and day out where it is an option for some not to maintain health insurance for a set time as they are saving for relocation or just trying to make their living expenses while trying to reaccess insurance through their next employer. It is possible to do without a car in parts of U.S. fyi.
shaithis45 2 years ago
you are pretty funny bluestems for trying to argue the bankruptcy effect. Hell some of us don't make enough or have any major assets so what the fuck are they going to take from us. Now we might be told to play or pay with mandatory health insurance. Your version of reform can stop right there. Until you have struggled and worked for a living and worked your way up, don't bitch to me with a bunch of jargon and your car insurance arugment is without merit.
shaithis45 2 years ago
I've gone without coverage since 2004 when I left the trucking industry. I've finally found a position where the benefits are actually quite good. From 2004 on though I was in and out of work and saving what I could. I worked positions which did have risk, but never bothered me one bit because my skills kept me in one piece. I also don't forget where I came from and if I ever became unemployed again,I'd drop my coverage again in favor of saving where I could. Does that register with you?
shaithis45 2 years ago
The last time I checked, I don't have to pay for car insurance if I choose not to own a car. I don't have to carry mortgage insurance if I don't choose to own property via a mortgage. Is the arguement supposed to be that if I don't want to carry health insurance, I simply choose to stop living?
wingnutwi 2 years ago
You can still have a car and risk driving w/o insurance however you know the risks. You can still have a car and still not have insurance as long as you don't operate it. The real argument is in healthcare costs and the mandate really should've never have been introduced. Won't know realsitcally until the final bill is introduced but sounds as if the mandate will be there which I think is very stupid for Congress to do. Have to wait and see.
shaithis45 2 years ago
If I am ever unemployed again I'm not paying high cobra rates or adding onto my monthly expenses. I retain control of my own finances to meet my living expenses or support relocation to areas with better employment. FYI, I don't through my money at a policy when I'm making $10-$12/hr because I already know I'm getting ripped off and either way I'm bankrupted. It is unconstutional making health insurance mandatory and personally I think you are full of shit.
shaithis45 2 years ago
bluestems I spent the better portion of over 2 years working in temporary office jobs where temp. to perm. jobs were non existent and I never knew when I was going to be out of work. So you are suggesting I should've maintained health insurance all that time or you would put someone else in that situation of having to afford coverage. I saved up what I could with out maintaining coverage so I could finally relocate which did drain my bank account. I knew my situation and how to play it.
shaithis45 2 years ago
Waiting lines are a small part of this health care apocalypse. A study last month asking 2000 doctors within 10 years of retirement, "If this type of health care reform passes what will you be most likely to do?" 87% said that they would retire before this legislation was implemented due to the increase in government bureaucracy and regulations. That should worry everyone, especially if you expand that to a national scale! WE, THE PEOPLE CAN STOP THIS!!!
dantheleo 2 years ago
Polls and dantheleo are full of shit!
jay123jd 2 years ago
The AMA supports the reform. From a recent Reuters article, 'American Medical Association backs House health bill':
"This legislation includes a broad range of provisions that are key to effective, comprehensive health system reform, " AMA executive vice president Michael Maves wrote to the House committee leaders.
In particular, he said, the doctors' group backs the insurance market reforms that seek to expand healthcare coverage and the proposed health insurance exchange."
bluestems 2 years ago
Bluestems you can't force an individual or any one citizen to buy a health insurance policy just because they live. You cannot tell me that the govt. will be forcing another monthly expense on me when I'm unemployed and trying to live off what I've saved while I seek better employement or relocating to a place with better employment. I spent two years working my way up through temp. work where health insurance was not an option for me.
shaithis45 2 years ago
You've done a good job missing my initial point bluestems regarding mandatory health insurance and refused to recognize that everyone's situation is different which leads me to believe that your are hiding a lot. Also it doesn't take 1000+ pages for true reform to happen. It is a red flag when someone tries to enforcement mandatory health insurance. Car insurance you have an option. Health Insurance I guess my only option is if I die. Your problem is you don't respect individual rights.
shaithis45 2 years ago
"which leads me to believe that your are hiding a lot."
lol- I'm just an average American posting a 500 word of less comment on a youtube video... seriously, you are a tool.
Base car insurance is madatory. So would be healthcare... you would have plenty of options, from providers to amount of coverage, just like auto insurance.
Your problem is you don't respect individuals rights over greedy insurance company profits. Go get your check from them...
bluestems 2 years ago
and you are still responding as you do. I think the point you are missing is that we all have the right to go with/without health insurance at one time or another based on our immediate needs. Sometimes we find ourselves unemployed and then what, I still have to maintain my health coverage. Nope you are not making any sense. Why maintain a plan when I know I'm still responsible for 80/20 60/40 etc. etc. or have a high deductible. Not like I make $7000/month.
shaithis45 2 years ago
bluestems if you can't understand or respect an individual's personal situation or the fact that things change where a person has to adapt and budget his/her own finances accordingly then you have already lost this argument. I simply put forth my concerns about mandatory healh ins. and you came back at me with a very weak argument. Until you have worked for a living or have been dragged through the bowels of the workforce by bad companies, then you are not as average as you might think.
shaithis45 2 years ago
Having health insurance that actually pays for coverage will save families money.
For those who really can't afford the public option rates, there will be subsidies available.
fyi- I'm a 38 mother of two, who worked my way through college and now work FT... your assumption about me is wrong. As is your assumptions about the reform. see w ww do t healthreform g ov for facts about the proposal, not falsehoods from insurance companies trying to keep the status quo.
bluestems 2 years ago
I ask again then, where is your counter argument regarding why we should have mandatory health insurance. I think I pointed out the circumstances that some of us go through in life and that some of us do work a lot harder for a buck doing manual labor and get treated like shit for doing it. Govt is not solving the problem with 1000+ pages of legislation and as stated before the first sign is when they kick around the ideal of mandatory health coverage. That is not reform bluestems.
shaithis45 2 years ago
I already replied to this.
bluestems 2 years ago
bluestems, I know the federal govt. has done a very sloppy job managing its own finances so why take this govt. at face value when they are in debt and start proposing to make health ins. mandatory. If costs were to come down with an increase in policy, I'd maintain a policy. But until that really happens, the last thing I'm going to tolerate is a govt. mandate or else approach. The more people are out of work the less likely they will have coverage and that decision has to be respected.
shaithis45 2 years ago
bluestems I think by deleting my initial message off your homesite is just a sign that your points are one way arguments. You have no real points to make here bluestems.
shaithis45 2 years ago
it's my home page, not a blog for your opinions. I have no need to have you clutter my page with your nonsense. If you grafitti my house, I'd paint over it too.
get a life.
bluestems 2 years ago
so you censor your homepage and steer the conversation in the direction you want it to go. ROFLMFAO. Yes of course it is your homepage, but that also tells me you can't make an effective argument the mandatory requirement and I've thrown some realistic situations your way the some of us are in. We manage our finances accordingly so don't come along telling me how to budget what I make as I budget accordingly to whether or not I'll have a job day in and day out as is the case with some of us.
shaithis45 2 years ago
You have made no argument against the mandatory requirement other than "it's my right!"
If that's true, than it's also your right to not get unemployment when you get laid off. It's also your right to loose your house, and all your savings if you get seriously ill. It's your right to die if you can't afford treatment.
Or, as I prefer, we all pay in for insurance so that when any of us gets sick, we are covered & cared for.
bluestems 2 years ago
bluestems, for preventive care, I can save up just as much and see I doctor when I'm sick, get my medication. Money not thrown away on a bad policy. There is such a thing as let the buyer beware however the buyer is not going to be forced into buying a poor healthcare policy. Sorry the mandatory language from the final bill has to and it is has to left up to freedom to choose without fear of penalty.
shaithis45 2 years ago
"I can save up just as much and see I doctor when I'm sick, get my medication."
... says the man who works temporary job at $10-15/hr.
And the new reform ensures you are buying a policy that will provide you adequate coverage.
bluestems 2 years ago
we will see on that one. FYI, when I was really sick, my cost to me as a private pay (no insurance) was $59 for the visit and the prescriptions for antibiotics and anti-inflammatories brought the final total to just over $100. I also was maitaining an affordable studio for $410/mo and managed myself accordingly always making sure I had money in the bank. Now you attack me for working my way up and surviving in the workforce. You are not who you say you are bluestems.
shaithis45 2 years ago
you futher decide to block me on your homesite rather than enage me. What does that really say about you bluestems as to where you are truly coming from. Sorry but you just lost the debate and have not really addressed the situation what some of us go through in reality. Again nice try but I see right through you.
shaithis45 2 years ago
lol- yep, I blocked you from making your ignorant comments on MY page.
get a life.
bluestems 2 years ago
And bluestems, I've worked my way up and have earned my living and have gone through a dose of reality. Thankfully I don't forget where I came from and will stand up against unfair practices of a corrupted Federal aristocracy especially when it comes to outside influences that force me to pay for something which adds onto to my monthly expenses unneccessarily. We pay enough as is in taxes and still govt. is in debt. You get a clue and stay out of everyone's personal affairs.
shaithis45 2 years ago
bluestems, I at least have some education backed by solid work experience in the real world. From they way you are commenting, it sounds like you are not a rational person that is educated so I'm also wondering what else you care to sell us on. FYI - The govt. doesn't own a person outright and there is only so much you can force on an individual that works for a living. Some of us are tired of a govt. that just mismanages its resources.
shaithis45 2 years ago
and bluestems, the healthcare issue is not the only thing wrong with this economy. It all goes back to the top of people that have been in power that have failed to do their jobs yet we keep buying into the two party system. There is only so much people will take from failed policies and yes it is our right to rebel against bad govt. or speak out as I'm doing now along with others. You call me a tool instead of making any valid arguments. You are the one that is the tool here.
shaithis45 2 years ago
I've dealt with neighbors that have had shady histories and have done best to keep raising their families. Something that I respect, but at the same time I find society very unforgiving to people that have done their time. So when anyone says mandatory healthcare for all, how about if we take it a step further giving felons/convicts and others a chance that have done their time rather than shut them out of the fucking workforce. That is the American society of today and its fucking pathetic.
shaithis45 2 years ago
remember bluestems: "That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
-Declaration of Independence
shaithis45 2 years ago
my point is once the Federal govt. has abused the public to such an extent that it will cease to exist and it is no longer an age where govt. can hide its actions from the people. Different time being in the information age. Govt has overstepped its bounds with trying to make health insurance mandatory and all the subsidies/tax credits is nothing but a smoke screen and a redistribution of money with who knows how many new tax scams/penalties they will impose. Beware a govt. in debt.
shaithis45 2 years ago
bluestems you have to take a serious look at who is in Congress and ask yourself if you trust a Congress that has taken advantage of its citizens or other Congressionl members that willfully cheat on their taxes or are quite possibly bought off. Start with going after the corruption first and then come up with a real solution. I respectfully disagree with your basis for mandatory health coverage as it is an unconstitutional mandate that is not being applied equally to everyone.
shaithis45 2 years ago
if I am required to maintain a policy at a certain income level, then it should apply to all income levels. Now one group of people gets subsidies/credits while I'm stuck paying unfair premiums that don't necessarily get me quality coverage. Mandatory healthcare coverage for all needs to be taken off the table. I respectfully disagree with your arguments and my first clue about who I was dealing with is when you brought up the car insurance comparison. Nice try.
shaithis45 2 years ago
"I'm stuck paying unfair premiums that don't necessarily get me quality coverage."
that would be the scenario TODAY.
Please show where in the reform proposal you have deduced that your premiums would be unfair?
Further, the reform would make insurance companies improve coverage but removing pre-existing conditions clauses, maintaining coverage if you loose your job, and improve health care quality and safety.
bluestems 2 years ago
that is exactly why I haven't forked over one dime for a policy because I knew that I was not getting what I was paid for. My situation was making anywhere between $10-$15 an hour as a temp. worker. Then according to these high deductible plans which are problably the most affordable, I'm being told that either way I'm bankrupted by having to afford my own expenses up to a certain deductible. I can save up my money just as easily and seek preventive care as needed.
shaithis45 2 years ago
You gamble then that you won't get seriously ill, get in an accident, etc. If you do, you could be looking at thousands of dollars for treatment, or you could just die if you can't afford it.
Or, you could purchase an affordable public option that ensures you will be covered for your bills (the reform also removes benefit limits).
Like I said, this is not a new, untested concept. Plenty of other countries have various forms of universal healthcare that works a lot better than ours.
bluestems 2 years ago
hell yeah, I wouldn't mind just being taking off life support and sticking the rest of you greedy bastards with the bill. Don't have to wory about anything when I'm dead and literally past a certain point in life, I rather I just drop dead of a heart attack especially if I'm still single. Best way to exit life rather then maintain treatments for cancer and such. Just give me that medical marijuana and let me go out my own way. As long as I'm alive, I'm not suffering financially under tyrrany.
shaithis45 2 years ago
bluestems, some of your comments lead me to believe that you might not be as educated as you say you are and I seriously doubt you are a mother of two. Also some signs were when you tended to control arguments on your homesite which tells me the type of person I'm dealing with is just trying to sell a lopsided viewpoint to people that have had enough common sense to speak out against the true nature of our current govt. and its intent.
shaithis45 2 years ago
your comments lead me to believe you're an idiot, young and with no clue.
btw- if you're threatening to revolt... go for it. Majority of Americans support our country, and the current reform. I'm tired of extremists thinking they own this country.
bluestems 2 years ago
bluestems it isn't the country, it is the people in Congress that are corrupt and until a sensible code of ethics is enforced on Congress, the expect all the abuses of power and corruption to continue. So I'm an idiot for working my way up in the work force and deeming how best to manage myself. Fine it shows how limitied you are in your viewpoints of the working class. FYI, that quote is from the Declaration of Independence and just a reminder that it is We the People and not We the Govt.
shaithis45 2 years ago
bluestems if you think you can manage without people that work for a living then move your own furniture, pickup your own goods that you rely on to live as I may not be around to haul it for you and supply your own energy and run your city/town by yourself and while you are at it make your own gasoline and fix your own means of transportation. Remember it takes a majority to do the stuff you don't want to do in life and some of us do make our minor contributions and have a voice.
shaithis45 2 years ago
You know I'm finally starting to see this mandatory health insurance mandate for what it really is and how it makes one group of people demonize the other side. The real issue here is the high cost of healthcare (NOT INSURANCE) which is unrelated to the insurance mandate scam this govt. is trying to force upon us. To say that the uninsured are pushing rates up is bullshit. Take a second look at what really pushed up costs, but don't give the fucking insurance companies excess business.
shaithis45 2 years ago
how will the president be able to assure patients get quality health care? with such a huge cut in doctors pay checks, i do not believe they will be very reliable, or want to participate in this reform... also by paying them by the quality of work can back fire as well. who is to say doctors will not falsify a patients diagnoses so they will get paid more.
djmykyra 2 years ago
Funniest thing I have seen is how many politicians are afraid to buck the insurance companies. If the insurance companies stopped real quick you would have to pry over half of congress out of their asses. LOL This is what our political system has come to. A disregard for the majority while picking up the spoils of the corporations. Like a little birdie sitting in the nest with their mouths open ready to be fed. On the flip side they are really easy. Money trumps power every time.
jay123jd 2 years ago
Is this video for real? They make it sound like people in other modern Countries are having to wait years to get special treatments. A relative of mine in Germany was diagnosed with colon cancer and was in surgery days later at no cost to him or his family. Another relative of mine was diagnosed with prostate cancer and couldnt get surgery for a month. He and his wife now have a ton of medical bills. These medical ads are made by greedy people who take advantage of uninformed people.
PeterFelten 2 years ago
Where to start? First of all the numbers you give have no causal implication on their own until you chose to give them one. The other things are as follows: If you have an HMO it is difficult to see a specialist. You speak of the imminent future where we will run out of specialists to deal with all our bad choices then in the same breath say that prevention isn't as important as NOW. Make up your mind. We need to do this RIGHT and not band aid an issue that is feeding on itself w/sickness.
siviechi 2 years ago
Isn't creating an advocacy video that purports to be looking out for the best interests of patients a little self-serving for Biomet, Inc., the company behind this video? Biomet would seem to have a vested interest in wanting to deal more with the "very sick", since they make specialized medical hardware that could be avoided in some cases with better preventative care. Lowering medical costs and increasing prevention is what health insurance reform is attempting to do, but it's bad for Biomet.
Zaunstar 2 years ago
We absolutely have an agenda, which is to ensure ongoing access to orthopedic surgeons for those in need. We also absolutely believe in the value of what we do and what our customers do for patients, in both economic and human terms, for our society.
The fact that we are advocating on behalf of our customers and their patients does not invalidate our arguments. The facts are what they are. Reducing access to surgeons who treat the #1 cause of disability in the U.S. is bad policy.
OnePatient 2 years ago
We should also state again for the record that opposition to certain provisions of healthcare reform legislation as written does not mean blanket opposition to healthcare reform conceptually. We never state that prevention is bad or should not be funded. We strongly disagree with the concept that has been promulgated frequently by numerous policymakers that specialists are the problem and we need fewer of them. We need more prevention and timely treatment--not one or the other.
OnePatient 2 years ago
My problem is this video also makes some major assumptions. Like the goal will be to deny those who are already sick. There are some signifiant waits. I personally feel that anything longer than a week to see a specialist is too long. Often to see your insurance approved specialist, you need to wait at least a month. This doesn't happen in places like Japan, where you can just walk into the specialist to have something looked at the very same day. Do some research, it's pretty amazing.
KestrelMacKnight 2 years ago
There are no assumptions in the video. The data are before healthcare reform. It's reasonable to assume it will get worse as healthcare reform increases coverage and reduces specialist pay, but we don't need to assume that to demonstrate the impending shortage of surgical specialists. To refute the data, you need either better/alternative data or to make assumptions yourself. Again, these are not OUR numbers or reinterpreted data. It's all government, OECD, and MGMA.
OnePatient 2 years ago
The Democratic Party leadership is tainted by corruption and being taken over by Socialists. These Socialists are clearly a threat to everything we hold sacred in America, and they are gaining evermore control over our Democratic Party, our Nation, and the American people.
Despite this, all we need to do is cut off donations to the local, state, and national headquarters of the Democratic Party, and to make sure the donations are made directly to honorable Democratic Party candidates.
geofiles 2 years ago
Republicons have been infiltrated by corporate money that taints our political system.
jay123jd 2 years ago
the entire system at the federal level would seem to have been infiltrated by corporate money. Doesn't matter who it is any more. If what I read was correct and if there is no effective ethical enforcement in Congress, then as I might have stated prior, it doesn't matter who gets voted in since an independent enforcement commission on ethics might not even exist.
shaithis45 2 years ago
Call it the entire system. I choose my battles you choose yours. Republicons started the unethical run of our government in 2000. So they are who I am against.
jay123jd 2 years ago
jay123jd, my argument is that if there are no code of ethics being enforced or seriously abided by due to lack of enforcement by an independent body then expect those same violations to continue regardless of who is in Congress. The first sign is a forced health care mandate which is really unconstitutional and now what would you think would be next beyond that? Eventually the more in debt. the Federal govt. goes the less credibility the Federal govt. will have. A lot to be considered.
shaithis45 2 years ago
Hey I see where you are coming from. I have a bone to pick with men who would rather look the other way and let this country fall on its ear than try and throw it a lifeline. Nobody is perfect. But the incompetence at high level leads me to believe things were done on purpose or should I say not done on purpose. Voting for a republicon is paramount to harboring and protecting the pirates off the coast of Africa.
jay123jd 2 years ago
And lightning struck twice in my lifetime. First the the savings and loan scandals that babkrupted farmers and others who had money in these institutions. Fastforward to 2000. Credit default swaps(insuring a bet to lose shares on a company without putting money up to buy shares) Naked short selling(buying stock shares on paper that do not exist and therefore waterdown the existing stocks. Same tactics used prior to the Great Depression. Sadly most people do not have a clue.Greedy republicons!
jay123jd 2 years ago
believe me Republicans will not be getting my vote and rest assured neither will Democrats. I'm looking more at Independent candidates going forward anyway and that is how I will vote in the future. Also I find it funny how parties complain when a third candidate siphons votes away from them. My view is if they bitch like that then they don't deserve to win. All I can say to you jay123jd is that may the best qualified candidate of your choice win in your neck of the woods. Regards.
shaithis45 2 years ago
My neck of the woods is Texas, they believe in the rights by and for the mighty insurance companies. So regardless of who wins I know an insurance company will be raising my rates on my next statement.
jay123jd 2 years ago
I use to work for one jay123jd as well as have seen what happens when one gets on Cobra and has to pay the full rates. It is insane. The way some companies work the system, they will charge on usage and yes females are charged at a higher rate over males. Pretty fucked up.
shaithis45 2 years ago
We had Ike hit here a little over a year ago. My property insurance company let me know earlier this week that our Governor Perry approved an increase in rates before Ike hit. lololo Shows you how money talks and bullshit walks when you got a republicon governor.
jay123jd 2 years ago
nowadays the way I see things, it is like why even own a house when you are subjected to paying repeated property taxes and constantly maintain insurance on it. Doesn't seem like it is worth the investment sometimes unless you can buy a house outright. Insurance has become more of a gamble nowadays vs. affordable if health rates do eventually go up, then that industry will just implode in on itself.
shaithis45 2 years ago
a little bit more about insurance, it is a factor in the trucking industry as well and determines whether or not you can get a job at some companies. Because of lack of experience one is barred from accessing the better paying openings. It is not that the trucking company doesn't want to hire you, insurance has played a detrimental role in that industry for years. Looks as if insurance in general has been pulling the strings for years. Just another aspect of a fucked up economy.
shaithis45 2 years ago
215 Trillion a year is spent on health care divded by 305 million Americans means you could pay every doctor $250,000 a year and he would only have 7 patients!
All of our money is being ripped off by Private Insurance and their greed along with their lobby.
Every 7 Americans could have a private doctor!
We are being screwed by everyone.
1911arthur 2 years ago
I think you meant $2.5 trillion spent on healthcare.
OnePatient 2 years ago
The reason there would be any line whatsoever waiting for treatment would be covering people that never had healthcare in the first place. These greedy morons would rather see people go without any form of heathcare than sit in the doctors office for another 15 minutes. Really disgusting.
jay123jd 2 years ago
"Waiting in line for specialists"? You mean like my Blue Cross HMO plan, where I have to see my PCP to get a referral request to see a specialist, wait at least a week to see if it's approved, then IF it's approved, get an appt. at least a month and a half down the road? So the total wait time is over two months? Which is what happened to me, while my problem got worse. & then the idiot specialist misdiagnosed me, so I had to go through it AGAIN! Yep, private insurance is the answer, bub.
OrmEmber 2 years ago
and my PPO with the 2 million dollar lifetime maximum doesn't sound any better especially with the normal 80/20 and whatever other out of pocket crap. However the preventive care is good but yeah it does all suck nowadays. Damned one way or the other.
shaithis45 2 years ago
waited six months on treatment here in the us, my brother lives in canada and got the same treatment in a little over a month
egg1997usa 2 years ago
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flaluvsmo 2 years ago
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flaluvsmo 2 years ago
The point is that by boosting preventive care we will, in the long run, get out of this mess. This movie already acknowledges that we are screwed with our current healthcare system driven by profit margins. Obviously we have less orthopedic surgeons if the insurance companies are not paying out either! Point the finger where it should be pointed. At insurance companies ho provide poor preventive care and then shrug their shoulders when the big bills start rolling in.
KevinWasmer 2 years ago
Those who are for the Obama/Democratic Healthcare Reform Package have convinced themselves that those who are opposed to it are opposed to Healthcare Reform in General. NOTHING could be further from the truth.
Have any of you wondered why there are NO Og/Gyn's in some state & why 20% of babies in the USA are delivered by "C-Section"? While the EU & UK have plenty of Ob/Gyn's and only 6% of babies there are delivered by "C-Section"?
LAW SUITS! Esp. some BIG CLASS ACTION SUITS by JOHN EDWARDS!
TraditionalAnglican 2 years ago
Tradition, if you want tort reform go to the states. Lobby right in your own state, hell lobby in the state next to your state. Everyone with a brainstem knows OB/GYN's need tort reform before we lose their service. This is a state issue. The feds cannot doing anything on their behalf. If your state legislators are too stupid, who are you blaming , what is your remedy? Another conservative without any concept of law. That is why we are in this mess. Give, give, give, to the insurance companies.
jay123jd 2 years ago
what does each individual in their respective states want to do then let the public in each state execute it already. All your state governments have ethics they are supposed to abide by. Have they of have they not abided by there ethical standards that YOU (the public) are suppose to be holding them accountable to?
shaithis45 2 years ago
If the states lets lawsuits go forward on doctors that have shown neglect in their job duties, you have to take that up with the state legislators. They can pass laws that would dramatically reduce the amount of money that can be sued for. In Texas they chopped it off at $250,000. Reasonable for doctors but not reasonable for contractors working in the petro-chem. field. If say Exxon through neglect kills your family member working on their property, the family is only entitled to $250,000.
jay123jd 2 years ago
This is really an issue that needs to be addressed by itself. Whether the health care reform passes or not this problem is going to be there. But what incentive is there to be a Dr? Money, but money only goes so far. Who really wants to waste years of their lives studying? At the same time, we need these specialists. The results of being a doctor are desired, but not the job. We need to make being a specialist desirable, and money just isn't the answer
fdkffk 2 years ago
1. What is the name of the political doctrine our Democratic Party leadership has adopted from Communism?
2. What is the name of the political doctrine our Democratic Party leadership has adopted from Marxism?
3. What is the name of the political doctrine our Democratic Party leadership has adopted from fascist dictatorships?
4. What is the name of the political doctrine our Democratic Party leadership has adopted from Adolph Hitler?
The answer to all of them is Socialism.
geofiles 2 years ago
The word Fascism is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it's used even more wildly than in print. I've heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, foxhunting, bullfighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestleys broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else... almost any English person would accept bully as a synonym for Fascist George Orwell
cheezbawl2003 2 years ago
We already have hoards of people on waiting lists who will never be seen by life saving specialists.
They're called the uninsured.
silkysausage 2 years ago
This is a poorly researched and fear based video.
I work hard and pay taxes but cannot afford health care. Legislators, USE MY TAXES RESPONSIBLY to give me a public health care option, just like you use them for public highways, libraries, schools, and police services. Lower incomes should not equal lesser access to infrastructure, information, education, protection, OR health care.
Moderngemini 2 years ago
This is not a binary argument. The video does not argue against healthcare reform writ large. It merely argues that we are facing a shortage of specialists and that currently-proposed policies will make that worse. We shouldn't fear healthcare reform--we NEED healthcare reform. What we don't need is less access to specialists. Unfortunately, that's where the currently-proposed policies are leading us.
If you can't get treatment when you need it, the insurance isn't much help.
OnePatient 2 years ago
On the contrary, if you can't get specialist treatment, the insurance is of huge importance to keep you healthy while you wait. Or even better, possibly fix the problem before it requires a specialist.
I know your argument is focused on the people that need specialists now, but to make a video that highly suggests not going with the reform bill is more dangerous than the shortage we face. If we stall on health care any longer we are going to have another generation of unhealthy people to save.
cheezbawl2003 2 years ago
Again, this is NOT a binary argument.--it is possible (indeed, we believe it is responsible and an obligation) to scrutinize the health reform legislation in its entirety and speak out on those provisions that are bad policy. That's what we're doing. We absolutely support greater access to care, coverage of those in need, and controlling cost. We do NOT support paying for it by reducing access to highly trained specialists who treat complex disorders of patients who most need treatment.
OnePatient 2 years ago