@un4m3d4 How does being, “Dependent or independent” determine the "value of a child?" In your twisted mind the physical or mental ability of a child determines his or her, "level of value". Wtf is that all about? Is that some kind of Joke? Let’s hope one of your children end up with a spinal injury, or even better, you! I bet your solution would be to, "make another one" lol. I think all would agree when i say, "take your Little Hitler mind-set and go fuck yourself" -No need to reply, Nuff said!
But John isn't lashing out, he's simply explaining that Moore is wrong and not because John thinks and belives Moore is wrong but because Moore is wrong. And what exactly is lias?
@un4m3d4 Everyone everywhere is subject to the cruelty of people crueler then themselves, including you. As a precaution, and out of pure benelovence, we should thus put you out of your misery.
@un4m3d4 I'is certainly a horrible thing to say due to the fact that it's outreageously ignorant and prejudiced.There are, for instance, employed persons with Down Syndrome who contribute to society. So, even from your utilitarian standpoint, you're wrong. Your logic would set a dangerous precedent, which, if followed, would see any person with a disability deemed sub-human, and thus unworthy of life.
Yes, you say you would choose to abort it, that's your choice. It's a morally ambiguous choice at that, so I can't really say if it's the right or wrong thing to do. But to say that everyone must follow your logic in the matter is, to me, wrong.
I understand, the child might not live a good life, but neither would a serious burn victim. Should we just kill them too? I know I'm taking you out of context, but my argument is that it should be the parents' choice, not a universal law.
The U.S. Department of Justice has handed down an indictment against a former CDC scientist who led research studies that claimed to disprove any link between vaccines and autism.According to government documents, Dr. Poul Thorsen, one of the key researchers in "disproving" any link between vaccines and autism, allegedly defrauded the scientific research community of over one million dollars. See NaturalNews*cm
Stossel is and always has been a hack reporter who has a history of pushing right wing causes. He is a Michael Moore opposite with even less credibility, but he will not let himself be challenged . He was fired for his lack of journalistic integrity before. Additionally just saying that someone is a Cuban human rights activist does not make them credible. The Cuban immigrant community has a lot of shady character as well as intentions. Much of the community deserved what they got from Castro.
What a crock of sh*t! I watched the entire "Sicko" movie with my college roommate who lived in Cuba for 19 years. He said the entire movie is laughable at best. He also said the average person would NOT be able to get the care shown in the movie. As per usual from Michael Moore, it was all lying propaganda.
and capitalism hasn't failed you fucker, CRONY capitalism has failed, man this guy rubs me the wrong way..he's so condescending with the platitudes isn't he...
Saying that Cuba does anything better then America is another Far Left attempt to put America down. If they really believe this then they should move there. Cuba does a good job on education and Health Care. But most people wouldn't trade places.
Gotta love Michael Moore. Only in America can an obese socialist get away with blaming HC costs on shadowy corporate conspiracies... in a country where obesity, weight, and irresponsible health account for the biggest share of HC costs and the reason why it is so unaffordable.
God Bless the KFC Double Down for bringing us Michael Moore.
stossel does a good job at pointing out how shitty healthcare probably is for a good deal of cubans. planned economy socialism sucks, but to say "exactly, communist countries are famous for hiding truths" just to prove some inferiority makes him just as lame as moore. as far as history demonstrates, capitalist countries are famous for hiding truths as well. screw socialism, communism, capitalism, neo-liberalism, anarchism, and all the different health care systems, they all suck differently.
I feel Americans are too focused on the the less pertinent issues like hi-fi equipment, classy hospital hallways etc. and comparing a third world system like Cuba to theirs in that regard completely misses the point.
The point is that health care is a fundamental human right. Just like basic education, like defense, police protection, security and legal protection is. Even dirt poor third world nations recognize it. Forget Cuba - China, India, S. Africa, even Iraq grant the right to a doctor.
@spicerer You're forgetting that comparing US hc to that of other countries also ignores the stark differences in general health. Unhealthy behavior like obesity and smoking contribute to our HC costs more than any other factor, but both wings of the political spectrum would like us to believe its some shadowy conspiracy. In other words, punishing unhealthy behavior would be a pre-condition to any claim that health care is a "right" where clearly no personal responsibility exists.
I'm Cuban. My grandfather died in a cuban hospital because all the doctors had been sent to Venezuela by the government, and because 10 years before, they had performed surgery to replace one of his heart valves. The replacement was dirty and put in carelessly. Hearing Micheal Moore say what he said, is hurtfull and infiuriating. My cousins over there can't even get caugh medicine or milk during infancy. I'm not a proponent of hate, but I HATE Micheal Moore.
I had an aunt that need open heart surgery in Brazil. They have socialized medicine, she got he surgery but then was forced to leave the very next day not being allowed to stay in the hospital to make sure everything went right. She went back the next day because of chest and heart pains and the doctors didn't a chance to she her. So she died, in a hospital, a day after having open heart surgery. I wish Michel Moore would die by eating a burger too fast and choking.
@AgentGTO how is that in any way michael moore's fault. I mean u obviously had a bad experience and that's terrible. However, if ur aunt wasn't a citizen their what the hell was she doing there. Maybe circumstances were dire if that's the case im sorry for ur aunt and brazil should be held accountable. but in this country, the only industrialized country without socialized medicine, we have our priorities backwards, the electorate should have its ppls health as a top priority not business
@Volomonoh All of the things you're saying about the terrible health care in Cuba is directly related to the blockade of Cuba, not due to communism or socialism or government run health care. This video was promoted by the health insurance industry. Industry whistle blower, Wendell Potter, said they actually had board meetings to figure out ways to discredit Michael Moore. Sorry about what happened to your grandfather but your anger is misplaced.
Really? We should abort people because they're different? Now, I understand informing the parents, giving them the decision to raise and a child with down's syndrome or to abort it. But to say "you're potential child has down's syndrome we have to abort it" is horrifying to me. It's her kid, and if she wants to raise it she should (now if there's reason to suspect she'd be abusive to the kid that's another, more complex, matter).
I don't know Cuba but I know Canada and we have Universal health care and it is great. I would not trade it for the American system for anything. This is from someone (me )who was on crutches/braces for six years as a child and a hip replacement as an adult. My family I now know were able to get me the care I needed without worrying about losing our house, same for me for my hip replacement as an adult. Thank you Tommy Douglas.
@AboveBelowBetween I on the contrary have moved out of Canada, partly because of the Health Care system. I've moved to Hong Kong where the heath care system is much more reasonable and better.
@AboveBelowBetween My father had had heart problem for decades but because of 1 stupid mistake a Canadian doctor did, his had to be put on dialysis. Then because of this dialysis he was told by another Canadian doctor he can't do heart operation. He was visiting HK when he exper'd chest pain and was admitted to hospital. When he say Canadian doc said he can't do heart op because of dialysis, his comment was "This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard..."
@Darusdei Ya, it means that someone is tricked or forced to do something they don't want to do. They would be conciously choosing to do this, and that is not taking advantage...
Dont mind aaasssfffdddiii he's just a troll, he was blatantly contradicting himself on his "real life" . On the "Bill Maher on France' utube post he was babling about how he experienced the French system, nothing made any sense. He described things that simply dont exist in France, like his wife being denied a hip surgery, then being placed on a waiting list. There arent any waiting lists for a hip surgery in France. He 's just vomiting Conservative propaganda talking points here.
That plus the fact aaasssfffdddiii 's page says he's 29, in here he says he spent 27 years in Canada, and on the "Bill maher on France" page he says he spent 6 years in France. Must be the only 29 year old that had a life experience amouting to 33 years. I guess when a nolife spends his days reading Conservative bullshit, he thinks it amounts to having lived several lives.
Apparently the top ten drugs manufactured by the US he constantly talks about are his morning breakfast.
Lol, the guy's probably American , not Canandian, he usually says we or our when he talks about the US while defintely using they when he speaks about Canada. I doubt someone born in Canada and spending 27 years there would reference either Canada or the US that way.
He's just a Con loon, only that kind can talk about organ donations that way without blinking.
Yeah but he hasnt given up on me, he's trolling like a maniac on the "Bill maher on France" page.
What's funny is how he's given himself away, he was using verbatim the arguments used by the Cons for bashing socialized healthcare and that all refer to Canada. he was telling me he had experienced this and that in France, and they were the exact same arguments.
Not realizing waiting lists for operations dont exist in France (except for some really really rare ops, not hip surgery )
2002 Pioneered the use of Botulinum Toxin A to reduce upper limb spasticity in children with cerebral palsy. (Bloorview Kids Rehab – Toronto, Ontario)
2003 Identification of a cancer stem cell responsible for brain tumors. This discovery may change how this deadly condition is studied and treated in the future. (Hospital for Sick Children — Toronto, Ontario)
@Darusdei I'm sorry, I had a typo in my last sentence. I meant so to say that you can't Argue that America DOESNT lead the world in medical innovation...
Looking for something that provides genuine knowledge in an unbiased, mature informed way into some aspects of this important debate? Please see “the U.S. Healthcare system in international Context:”
As a Canadian I can assure those who view our medical system as some sort of nightmare that I LOVE our health care system and wouldn't trade it for the world! I am a low income individual so I pay nothing for my health care. I can go to the clinic on my street any day of the week for injuries, illness, or any other concerns I have and get great care, and referrals as needed. John Stossel is misrepresenting the truth, Canada and other developed countries have the best health care in the world.
@aaasssfffdddiii As it happens, I have a family member with breast cancer. She is receiving chemo therapy weekly, and has an oncologist who actually called her on a Sunday to check in on how she was feeling! I bet there aren't a lot of doctors who do that... There is also a sevice (which she doesn't need) to drive patients to and from the cancer centre. She will have to go for one month of radiation starting soon. All of this, the best care available, and she doesn't pay a cent.
@ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS No, Canada has much lower cancer survival rates than America. They also have dangerously long waiting times. Your family member probably got lucky. But most people have too wait until it is too late to get care. On top of that, our quality of care is SOO much better than it is in Canada. I would never trade our system.
@aaasssfffdddiii What are you basing your beliefs on? I can only speak for my and my family's experiences. I have never heard of a cancer patient waiting for anything here (there have been too many people in my family with that horrid disease.) What makes you feel that Canadians suffer in our health care system? I believe Canadian cancer patients likely have higher survival rates because everyone gets proper treatment, unlike in the States where many people can't get treatment at all?
@ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS aaasssfffdddiii believes what she wants to and no information of any kind can make her learn anything. You can lead somebody to the truth but you can't make them think.
@aaasssfffdddiii You are so wrong! What a liar! My wife has had excellent care in Canada, including emergency surgery for two broken bones, and that on a Sunday morning. Like anywhere else, you need to make appointments to see specialists. I've been with her several times during doctor visits. Also, fast Canadian health care saved my life in 2006. In the US, I think I'd have been toast.
@aaasssfffdddiii You're completely mixed up! I don't know where you live but I grew up near Canada, and have spent lots of years in and out of Canada. You have no idea of what you know nothing about. Maybe you've been listening to FOX NOOSE. (lynching blacks one at a time).
@bodryn "You have no idea of what you know nothing about" How can I have an intelligent conversation with somebody who uses this kind of logic. I obviously have no idea of what I know nothing about. Thats why I know nothing about it!!! Health Care is not one of those things. I know alot about health care...
@aaasssfffdddiii To spell it out for you: you know nothing about Canadian health care as is made obvious by your statements. Also, FYI, my wife is an RN. She knows good health care when she experiences it. By the way, a lot is 2 words, not 1, as you have it.
@aaasssfffdddiii I have to wonder where you get your bizarre opinions regarding Canadian health care. You don't give any evidence, you just believe it's bad. "You know enough...." well, you're beyond reasoning with. No evidence, just beliefs. I think that's what propaganda has done to you.
@bodryn aaasssturd thinks he knows everything about EVERYTHING!
I live in Blaine, WA on the border and know first-hand how good health care in Canada is. I waited 6 mths for an endoscopy last year. Paying out of pocket, I got one in BC for less than my HMO co-pay plus the Canadian doc took me off the unnecessary drugs my US doc had prescribed -which worsened things. I didn't even have GERD as the US doc diagnosed.
Health care should be about healthy patients, not making money off of them.
@CylonCenturion Thank you for confirming the truth. I don't know what GERD is, but the fact is, US docs too often prescribe expensive drugs - they must be getting kickbacks from Big Pharma or something. The corporate fat cats have perverted the entire system of health care in the US, and too many people don't realize it. People die from that kind of corruption.
@aaasssfffdddiii Virtually no Canadian would even consider getting health care in the United States. Many of my relatives won't even go to the States because they are so nervous about the American lack of a health care system.
@ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS Wow, even though the US has made 8 of the last 10 most popular medicines in the world. We also have higher cancer survival rates than Canada. So our "lack" of Health Care is alot better han yours.
@aaasssfffdddiii Buddy, if you don't understand by now, then you aren't going to understand, and I'm going to stop wasting my time with you. If you are deeply satisfied by the health care you receive, then that is a wonderful thing, I hope you keep it. I am trying (harder than necessary) to demonstrate that as a Canadian, I am deeply satisfied by the health care that I receive. Hopefully you will never get screwed by the inadequacies of your 'system' nor I mine.
@aaasssfffdddiii Some of the most popular medicines made turn out to be bad for people and are taken off the market. Others SHOULD BE but are not. American health care is dangerous, and sort of like Russian roulette. I know from recent experience.
@aaasssfffdddiii Canadians have more health care freedom than US because US insurance companies control what they'll pay for. Canadians are free to choose their own doctors. In the US, corporations are controlling our lives way too much, but they make people think it's government's fault. If govt is controlled by corporations, then you know who to blame. Think it through.
@bodryn You know nothing about either system. In Canada the Government chooses the doctors, and whether or not you are valuable enough to society to get care. IN the US care IS expensive, but if you are in an emergency situation then US hospitals are forced to take you in regardless of pay. We also have higher survival rates.
@aaasssfffdddiii You are completely wrong. I ought to know - I've been with my wife many times for her care in Canada. Nobody but my wife has chosen the doctors she likes to go to. You are hopelessly ignorant about Canadian health care and I can't think of anybody who could ever show you the truth about anything. I don't know why you believe what you do, but if my direct evidence can't convince you, nothing can. Canadians life expectancy approx 3 years longer than Americans.
@bodryn I understand that Communists like you don't believe that people should have opposing views. You are nothing more than Communist propaganda. Everybody knows that Canadian Health Care is a MESS. It is not near what we ahve in the US. Your wife is luck that the Canadian government deemed her valuable enough to society to receive Health Care. IT IS GLORIOUS!!!
@aaasssfffdddiii So you think you can put your views down, but I cannot? And supposedly this makes me a communist? The great majority of Canadians like their health care, but they often stay away from the US because of US health care. Your mind is more of a MESS than Canadian health care. I have no idea where you get your crazy ideas. BTW, I am a US military veteran. Shouldn't you respect me for that?
@bodryn How could a military vet disrespect our time old tradition of Capitalism. I do respect that about you, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with you on this. You are ill-informed... I don't look down on you for that....
@aaasssfffdddiii What do you think about Medicare and Veterans Administration health care? Those are hardly what you'd call Capitalism. Would you tear those down, too? Canadian health care is single payer health insurance, and costs less. Your claims about Canadian health care seem to be based on what you've been told by somebody. MIne are based on direct experience as well as being with my wife for some of hers. I don't know why you don't get that.
@bodryn Actually, I would. I think we should replace them with vouchers and subsidies so people can buy private insurance. Government does NOTHING welll (Except for the military and security, and even those aren't great). Medicare is going BROKE. They are all screwed...
@aaasssfffdddiii One problem I have with private insurance is that they profit by denying people coverage. It happened to me: On an 80/20 policy, an insurance company did NOT pay 80%, they only paid me 3% on a huge health care bill. And on a car insurance policy where I had "full" coverage, they totaled my van, valued my van at only $2150 when I had paid about $10,000 for it 4 years earlier. Fortunately I found an honest repairman who said he could fix it up, and he did.
@bodryn If there was no private market(and their evil profits) you wouldn't even have most of the new medicines that yo can't afford. In a truly free market system you wouldn't have the problems you have. I can prove this by pointing to the fact that 12 of the 20 biggest pharmeceutical companies are in America. America has the most availability of medical technology. And we have the highest survival rates for most diseases. I'm sorry, but you're living in a ideal world, not the one we live in...
@aaasssfffdddiii Don't you know that many or most of the largest corporations are multinational? And they tend to want to move overseas? Their loyalty is not to America, just to profits. And that includes making stuff for things like germ warfare, chemical warfare, and whatnot. Remember Dow Chemical? I think you have drunk the Kool Aid. I don't think you can be reached by anybody. Certainly not me. Think I'll laugh at you from the sidelines now.
@bodryn Laugh at me from the sidelines... what does that even mean. You are literally the most ill-informed person I know. There is a reason that almost every innovation comes from america, because we have a free market. Medicine availability is also the best in America, just please do some damn research before you talk again...
@ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS I can agree that Canada has an excellent health care system. You can perhaps see that the media in the US has brainwashed many of the people so badly that they don't know what to believe. They don't have anything like CBC with objective news and analysis. They think NPR is similar but the NPR has been badly compromised by corporate sponsors. This situation is eerily similar to Germany in the 1930's.
@dmeiske1 How could he be a moron if he's liberal? Many years ago, I learned that the noted liberal JFK was smart - in fact he had an excellent command of the language and a great wit as well, as seen at his press conferences. Too bad you missed out on that. Nobody else has ever been that good.
@RedBloodReign He's a good guy, who had to make movies like his in order to bypass the corporate Repuglican owned mass media. He keeps them on their toes, too. Good for him!
all conservatives with a brain (5% ? who knows) but the point is, any of those people that try to call Canada's health care system "socialized" are truly disingenuous and intellectually dishonest - a single payer system by definition, is NOT socialist, look it up!
@Claronium780 Basically each person pays the government to act as insurer - thus avoiding crooked insurance companies that eat up like 35% off the top and have no basic reason to exist except to take money from people.
Who is this 70's porn star? He should stick to his former career rather than his present one of being an apologist for the most wasteful, un-caring health system on earth. The fact is, in the US more bankruptcies occur as a result of medical expenses than from any other cause. Compare the health statistics of the US with any other developed country: Canada, Britain, Germany, Japan etc & the US is behind on almost all the major indicators.
government regulation of health care is the main cause of the health care industry's upward spiraling costs. The FDA, EPA, Medicare, and a host of other bureaucracies have created mountains of regulations that have led to the deaths of thousands and even millions of people who were denied needed treatments and resources. The cost of creating new treatments is also out of control because of this regulation.
Man, Moore makes me laugh. Just what I want... Cuban Healthcare. I didn't need to see the video to know that the US has the best medicine in the world. That's why the majority of the worlds best doctors are in the US. I have no idea what his motivation is?
And yes, we PAY for healthcare. In one form or another, most working Americans pay for Healthcare, regardless of the time in which we actually pay-up. It could be in the form of taxes (Medicare), insurance, or direct.
@dakin3d Pay more, get less, thanks to Health Insurance companies that have no purpose other than to skim high profits off of denying people coverage. Single payer would put an end to that.
All we need is Tort reform and deregulation of the insurance industry to allow for interstate commerce and our problem would be solved not this stuipd government take over and reductions on your freedoms. please tell your reps to vote NO on this bill.
its not just the insurance companies...the cost of healthcare is an issue as well...people that dont have health insurance cant afford health care...thats because the cost it so high!
@SaintLiam78 Not just that. No more government mandates on what must be covered by third parties. We don't pay directly so prices are too high. It needs to be a true free market.
@SaintLiam78 Tort reform is already the law in most of the states. I don't see it helping as you claim, though. Tort law is the last chance for individuals who have suffered medical malpractice, to have a chance at justice. Medical malpractice takes many forms, such as the prevalence of bad pharmaceuticals that are inadequately or even fraudulently tested, then sold.
@bodryn well with the number of states that are attempting to repeal the law, I see some hope for the future of this country if the states can just keep up the pressure,the downside is kagan was just confirmed so thats what 3 uber-libs on the court now....
@SaintLiam78 I'm not very happy with Obamacare - people being forced to buy health insurance. Canada has had a good system for years; it costs less, and does more for people. They've had it for 40 years or more. My wife has experienced it first hand, and by far it is far preferable over VA health care, which she and I both HATE.
The system could be fixed without a government takeover. Deregulation (allowing ins. co. to compete across state lines) and a crack down on frivolous lawsuits against doctors would go a long way. In our state you get a choice of 2 ins. co., so there is actually no competition. Most people in the US that say they can't afford HC have new cars,cellphones,and tons of other crap they do not need. It;s not someone elses place to provide you with care, it's your priorities thatt need an overhaul!!!!
healthcare in britain is not the best. it isnt as bad as cuba but it certainly isnt the best. all your innovation and medical technology comes from American medical companies. I have been in French, British, and German hospitals. the equipment i saw in the hospitals all bore American labels. even the drugs were American. Your system isnt bad, people are cared for, but it is terribly inneficient.
@coverchenko Ah yes, americans spend twice per capita more on healthcare than any nation on the planet yet the US healthcare is ranked #37 in the world, way behind every first world socialized healthcare system. Feel free to lecture the world about being" inefficient". We'll try no to let our hysterical laughter drown you out
Guess what, the government pays approximately HALF of all our healthcare costs currently... They are responsible for many of the reasons why health expenses got out of hand in the first place. FDA regulations, insurance regulations (some are necessary), Allowing easy fraud by Doctors jacking up costs of a $2 MRI to $100's because the government foots the bill. And how can the private market compete with government subsidies left and right? They are in the way, not the solution.
@coverchenko Really because American hospitals are full of medical equipment come from Japanese medical comapnies. I went with my mother for her MRI and they had a toshiba Machine. Sorry buddy Japan is the number one in medical innovation now.
Umm, fact check. The inventor was named Raymond V. Damadian, he was born in America, went to school in America, and invented the MRI in America... Socialized healthcare also benefits from drugs that are created here which have research fees, which other countries don't have to pay, and create their generics free of charge.. Just because Japan manufactures something cheaper than us, doesn't mean they 'innovated' anything, I'm sure they have their achievements though..
@Clyaton "Damadian is American, and he invented the MRI"
Forget who invented MRI, it used to be called NMR for "Nuclear Magnetic Resonance", the principle technology behind MRI, a non-destructive vibration of the neutrons and protons within the nuclei of the body's atoms (not cells) to create a resonant pattern variable with atomic density in the various tissues. It was discovered by Isidor Rabi, a Jew in 1938. In 1946, Felix Bloch and Edward Mills Purcell refined the technique at MIT.
I live in America and I get crappy care. My health insurance company denied me treatment for 3 months for a serious back issue. My doctor told me that they would only authorize pain killers, and not the physical therapy that I had requested. People seems to stick to party lines when determining what side of the debate they are on. I'm generally conservative although I believe that the system needs to be changed. As it stands now, for profit companies determine what type of treatment we get.
your right. we have let overbloated insurance companies, which are protected by the goverment, run our healthcare. that needs to stop. we need deregulation and a more competitive market for private healthcare. you should be able to get what services you want, not your insurance company.
@Attila226 And sadly, their biggest profits seem to come from denying coverage. I had a giant medical bill in 2007 and an "80/20" policy paid only 3% of it. If that's insurance coverage, I'll take Single Payer any day of the week.
At least michael moore stands up and voices AN opinion. I hope that all of you who are opposed to universal healthcare get screwed by the insurance companies. I really do.
Rep,Teapartiers,Beck are CEOcommunists...They want you pay your bloody rates to the CEOs gains and private health care bureaucracy!
40 milions US uninsured citizens and US bailed out economy really need a National Health Care (Single Payer) founded by progressive tax (not flat tax) on the capital gains.
20 million of the uninsured you speak of are ILLEGAL aliens, and half of whats left have access to care they just don't prioritize it. They feel other things are more important. In my state anyone without access to HC can already get a policy from the state,but it's not FREE the way they want it so they don't sign up. It all comes down to priorities. Stop waiting for someone else to take care of you and your family and become an adult.
@slg1373 Just wait until YOU find your insurance coverage pulls the rug out from under you AND your house AND your life as you once knew it. Then maybe you'll sing a different tune.
@tudman19 I think the ones who oppose universal health care are the ones who haven't yet had to use their insurance coverage, so they don't know how bad it is.
Hi, I'm from the Netherlands. Quick question: I watched Moore's documentary Sicko but I can NOT believe that you actually have to PAY for your medical treatments in the United States (of all countries). Surely this must be a lie from Moore. Please confirm this, I'm really worried.
Ah, and yes: my country also has universal healthcare. Instead of paying a monthly fee to an insurrance company, I pay a monthly tax.
Of course people in the US pay&you do as well-you just admitted it.What made it so costly was gov't intervention into medicine, whether with Medicare, meds, or licensing, everything they did made the cost for the individual rise.People used to be able to pay for treatments, ordinary visits, and meds out of pocket, carrying only catastrophic ins(ie, for cancer & the like).
Well, that's kind of a confirmation of what I meant. US citizens having ensurances to the big things and paying themselves for the rest is a line of thoughts I really dont believe.
I pay a monthly tax, around 100 of your dollars, an no matter what happens to me: cancer, sniffles, broken bones, trauma and whatnot; it's going to be okay. I dont have to worry about money. I find it very disappointing that a nation like the US treasures free-market over the health of its citizens. Am I wrong here?
@Halvegare1 The US has become pathetically controlled by big multinational corporations. The individual people get mediocre health care, sometimes go bankrupt from medical bills, may end up homeless. War veterans go to big VA hospitals for treatment that often are bureaucratic nightmares. Latest ploy is denying people the right to make medical appointments more than 2 months in advance. What next? I don't know.
truindep same can be said for the higher education system as well. I have a feeling govt. somewhat played a role in pushing up those tuition rates. Can't seem to go for a 4 year degree without taking out a loan. Nowadays I compare that with what I pay in rent and find it is just not worth it at the moment when it comes to taking courses at some 4 year universities.
@truindep "What made it so costly was gov't intervention"
For all the vilification of Insurance Co.s, they are in fact the creation of a meddling Federal Government. In 1946, FDR put a wage cap supposedly to keep inflation at bay. As a result, employers anxious to hire during the post war boom, short of men lost in war or still in the service (remember, Japanese and German occupations kept the military busy). That left industries with "fringe benefits" like health to recruit workers.
My country has 400 inhabitants per square kilometer, while the US only has 32. Do you think that has anything to do with why or why not government funded healthcare works?
Honestly, are you Americans affraid of your government? Where does this idear come from? Is the word "social" really scaring off the anti-communists?
Just let me say this: the dutch labor-unions whould've made mincemeat out your system a long time ago.
well yes scale can be a problem but i dont think it is in america. it is true that europeans have access to healthcare, but that doesnt mean they get it. access simply means that they dont have to pay for it when they walk in the hospital. i saw people waiting in lines that spanned blocks simply to get a dental appointment in Germany. government is inneficient and stifles innovation. thats why we americans dont want the government running our healthcare.
@Halvegare1 President Ronald Reagan declared war on the labor unions by firing a bunch of federal employees: Air traffic controllers who went out on strike. He got away with it, and in effect began effectively destroying the union movement in the US.
@Halvegare1 - Exactly, 400 inhabitants per square KM versus 32 means that the US also has to put far more infrastructure in to support the system because of distances between people. Thus, the cost of your system transplanted to the US rises practically exponentially.
Your unions would be ridiculed as idiots for trying to transplant your system because it is folly at best and vastly damaging at worst.
@Halvegare1 "Instead of paying a monthly fee to an insurrance company, I pay a monthly tax"
Goede dag! But, you're not really so daft as to think because you pay a "tax" instead of an "insurance premium", that you're getting your healthcare for free, do you? Maybe the difference is that Americans like being free and independent and deciding how, when, and where to spend our money, rather than have it snatched from our wallets and the decisions made by some government bureaucrat or committee.
@seismedia Naw, it's really because they are scared of "socialism" and think it's like communism, because of the McCarthy witchhunts of the early 50's. McCarthy lost his Senate career, but the fear syndrome continues, like any chronic disease....
@bodryn "because they are scared of "socialism" and think it's like communism"
No, it's because "Americans like being free and independent and deciding how, when, and where to spend our money, rather than have it snatched from our wallets and the decisions made by some government bureaucrat or committee"
@Halvegare1 This creep who answered you states the obvious while also endorsing lies and half-truths. The fact is, many Americans go bankrupt because their insurance does not pay as advertised. And in Canada, where everyone is covered, government negotiates the prices down to make it more affordable. Americans pay more than any other country because nobody has been protecting them from exploitive health care inflation.
@Slipknotyk06 Yeah, could be as much as 5% lower, or even more. US used to have up to 90% income tax on highest earners when Eisenhower was President. John F. Kennedy lowered it to 78%. Now it's about 35% but if Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire it will "balloon" to about 39%. Hmmm - can we get foreign aid?
@bodryn - The 91% tax rate was created under FDR while fighting a war.
The fastest that Income tax has ever been lowered in the USA was under Reagan. It went from 78% all the way to 28%.
Now, I believe that both Corporate Income Tax and Personal income tax need to be lowered and simplified. You do know that the highest personal income tax was 7% in the roaring 20s, and the highest income tax on business was 25% at the same time?
Moore's Fans are Just as SICKO as he is! LOL.
3martijns 3 months ago
John Stossel is a MORON!!!!
pjmgame 4 months ago
@pjmgame Says the one with one-digit-IQ who is blinded by Moore's lies.
DrStrangebomb1993 1 month ago
Michael Moore is one of the few celebrities who cares about the middle class. The Right-Wing media has made him an enemy to all Americans. Sad.
pjmgame 4 months ago
@un4m3d4 How does being, “Dependent or independent” determine the "value of a child?" In your twisted mind the physical or mental ability of a child determines his or her, "level of value". Wtf is that all about? Is that some kind of Joke? Let’s hope one of your children end up with a spinal injury, or even better, you! I bet your solution would be to, "make another one" lol. I think all would agree when i say, "take your Little Hitler mind-set and go fuck yourself" -No need to reply, Nuff said!
TheVALLEYoftheDEAD 6 months ago
If Stossel is in the vid, its been added to my favorites:)
iluvpoliticzz 6 months ago
I rather enjoy what the free market gives me vs what the federal government does...
iluvpoliticzz 6 months ago
@redeyeshannibal
That's not true because I never typed the word liberal. So you're wrong.
AgentGTO 6 months ago
@redeyeshannibal
But John isn't lashing out, he's simply explaining that Moore is wrong and not because John thinks and belives Moore is wrong but because Moore is wrong. And what exactly is lias?
AgentGTO 6 months ago
@redeyeshannibal
Ya, I would expect that kinda of an answer from some ignorant person.
AgentGTO 6 months ago
Paul | Stossel 2012
ondjima 7 months ago
@ondjima What a team. Never even thought of it.
brixcity17 6 months ago
@un4m3d4 Everyone everywhere is subject to the cruelty of people crueler then themselves, including you. As a precaution, and out of pure benelovence, we should thus put you out of your misery.
Re5Publica 7 months ago
@un4m3d4 I'is certainly a horrible thing to say due to the fact that it's outreageously ignorant and prejudiced.There are, for instance, employed persons with Down Syndrome who contribute to society. So, even from your utilitarian standpoint, you're wrong. Your logic would set a dangerous precedent, which, if followed, would see any person with a disability deemed sub-human, and thus unworthy of life.
Re5Publica 8 months ago
@un4m3d4
Yes, you say you would choose to abort it, that's your choice. It's a morally ambiguous choice at that, so I can't really say if it's the right or wrong thing to do. But to say that everyone must follow your logic in the matter is, to me, wrong.
I understand, the child might not live a good life, but neither would a serious burn victim. Should we just kill them too? I know I'm taking you out of context, but my argument is that it should be the parents' choice, not a universal law.
TombaFanatic 8 months ago
Comment removed
stringlov 9 months ago 26
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The U.S. Department of Justice has handed down an indictment against a former CDC scientist who led research studies that claimed to disprove any link between vaccines and autism.According to government documents, Dr. Poul Thorsen, one of the key researchers in "disproving" any link between vaccines and autism, allegedly defrauded the scientific research community of over one million dollars. See NaturalNews*cm
promiseIsaih60 9 months ago
Take your fatass to cuba then moore
H1TMANactual 10 months ago
eat a dick john stossel
noldorian86 11 months ago
@noldorian86 Michael Moore*
Iisdabest889 9 months ago
Ugh... this is horribly biased "reporting"
ammarios 11 months ago
Make a movie about Healthcare in Cuba, when challenged on it. call Cuba a Red Herring... What an idiot.
Reckless3057 1 year ago
@Reckless3057 The movie wasn't about health care in Cuba. That was just one very small segment of the movie. The movie is actually quite good.
Mugchgu 11 months ago
Stossel is and always has been a hack reporter who has a history of pushing right wing causes. He is a Michael Moore opposite with even less credibility, but he will not let himself be challenged . He was fired for his lack of journalistic integrity before. Additionally just saying that someone is a Cuban human rights activist does not make them credible. The Cuban immigrant community has a lot of shady character as well as intentions. Much of the community deserved what they got from Castro.
rmacevoy 1 year ago
What a crock of sh*t! I watched the entire "Sicko" movie with my college roommate who lived in Cuba for 19 years. He said the entire movie is laughable at best. He also said the average person would NOT be able to get the care shown in the movie. As per usual from Michael Moore, it was all lying propaganda.
buckmastr123 1 year ago
i can't believe this fat fuck can see anything good in cuba ,do not look backward, look forward.
tubebellator 1 year ago
and capitalism hasn't failed you fucker, CRONY capitalism has failed, man this guy rubs me the wrong way..he's so condescending with the platitudes isn't he...
seriouslycurious1 1 year ago
we just need tort reform people, michael is a liar, it's a service not a right, remove the damn mandate!!
seriouslycurious1 1 year ago
Saying that Cuba does anything better then America is another Far Left attempt to put America down. If they really believe this then they should move there. Cuba does a good job on education and Health Care. But most people wouldn't trade places.
FRSFreeStateES 1 year ago
Lol
Jebusjoose 1 year ago
MM is a fuckhead
senicalj 1 year ago
Gotta love Michael Moore. Only in America can an obese socialist get away with blaming HC costs on shadowy corporate conspiracies... in a country where obesity, weight, and irresponsible health account for the biggest share of HC costs and the reason why it is so unaffordable.
God Bless the KFC Double Down for bringing us Michael Moore.
thereinliestherib 1 year ago
Looks like Michael Moore wins.
Former Cigna CEO has blown the whistle on these parasites.
MsZeitgeist85 1 year ago
Hanoi Michael
djdaisentertainment 1 year ago
stossel does a good job at pointing out how shitty healthcare probably is for a good deal of cubans. planned economy socialism sucks, but to say "exactly, communist countries are famous for hiding truths" just to prove some inferiority makes him just as lame as moore. as far as history demonstrates, capitalist countries are famous for hiding truths as well. screw socialism, communism, capitalism, neo-liberalism, anarchism, and all the different health care systems, they all suck differently.
oerich 1 year ago
@oerich Are you seriously comparing freedom of information in socialist countries and capitalist countries?
RUBENSolol 1 year ago
I feel Americans are too focused on the the less pertinent issues like hi-fi equipment, classy hospital hallways etc. and comparing a third world system like Cuba to theirs in that regard completely misses the point.
The point is that health care is a fundamental human right. Just like basic education, like defense, police protection, security and legal protection is. Even dirt poor third world nations recognize it. Forget Cuba - China, India, S. Africa, even Iraq grant the right to a doctor.
spicerer 1 year ago
@spicerer You're forgetting that comparing US hc to that of other countries also ignores the stark differences in general health. Unhealthy behavior like obesity and smoking contribute to our HC costs more than any other factor, but both wings of the political spectrum would like us to believe its some shadowy conspiracy. In other words, punishing unhealthy behavior would be a pre-condition to any claim that health care is a "right" where clearly no personal responsibility exists.
thereinliestherib 1 year ago
I'm Cuban. My grandfather died in a cuban hospital because all the doctors had been sent to Venezuela by the government, and because 10 years before, they had performed surgery to replace one of his heart valves. The replacement was dirty and put in carelessly. Hearing Micheal Moore say what he said, is hurtfull and infiuriating. My cousins over there can't even get caugh medicine or milk during infancy. I'm not a proponent of hate, but I HATE Micheal Moore.
Volomonoh 1 year ago
@Volomonoh I'm so sorry for your loss, I know how it feels for someone to lie about something so close to home. You have my best wishes.
XxSGT629xX 1 year ago
@XxSGT629xX Thanks, but I fear most people will only understand my point when they feel my pain. That can only be a bad thing.
Volomonoh 1 year ago
@Volomonoh
I had an aunt that need open heart surgery in Brazil. They have socialized medicine, she got he surgery but then was forced to leave the very next day not being allowed to stay in the hospital to make sure everything went right. She went back the next day because of chest and heart pains and the doctors didn't a chance to she her. So she died, in a hospital, a day after having open heart surgery. I wish Michel Moore would die by eating a burger too fast and choking.
AgentGTO 1 year ago
@AgentGTO how is that in any way michael moore's fault. I mean u obviously had a bad experience and that's terrible. However, if ur aunt wasn't a citizen their what the hell was she doing there. Maybe circumstances were dire if that's the case im sorry for ur aunt and brazil should be held accountable. but in this country, the only industrialized country without socialized medicine, we have our priorities backwards, the electorate should have its ppls health as a top priority not business
tamu77095 6 months ago
@Volomonoh All of the things you're saying about the terrible health care in Cuba is directly related to the blockade of Cuba, not due to communism or socialism or government run health care. This video was promoted by the health insurance industry. Industry whistle blower, Wendell Potter, said they actually had board meetings to figure out ways to discredit Michael Moore. Sorry about what happened to your grandfather but your anger is misplaced.
Mugchgu 11 months ago
@Volomonoh
Michael Moore should live one year in Cuba
and then he will leave with a boat to the USA
RSG132 8 months ago
John Stossel is THE MAN
DosuZakuKin 1 year ago
"The doctor told her the baby showed signs of Down-Syndrome and should not be born."
A-FUCKING-MEN!!!!!!!!! Until we find a reputable cure for things like Down-Syndrome, abortion is the best way to go.
And I completely agree that Cuba's medical system SUCKS BALLZ, though I'm not UBERLY Anti-Castro like most US people are.
TheManiacalSatanist6 1 year ago
@TheManiacalSatanist6
Really? We should abort people because they're different? Now, I understand informing the parents, giving them the decision to raise and a child with down's syndrome or to abort it. But to say "you're potential child has down's syndrome we have to abort it" is horrifying to me. It's her kid, and if she wants to raise it she should (now if there's reason to suspect she'd be abusive to the kid that's another, more complex, matter).
TombaFanatic 10 months ago
I don't know Cuba but I know Canada and we have Universal health care and it is great. I would not trade it for the American system for anything. This is from someone (me )who was on crutches/braces for six years as a child and a hip replacement as an adult. My family I now know were able to get me the care I needed without worrying about losing our house, same for me for my hip replacement as an adult. Thank you Tommy Douglas.
AboveBelowBetween 1 year ago
@AboveBelowBetween I on the contrary have moved out of Canada, partly because of the Health Care system. I've moved to Hong Kong where the heath care system is much more reasonable and better.
98wongjf 1 year ago
@AboveBelowBetween My father had had heart problem for decades but because of 1 stupid mistake a Canadian doctor did, his had to be put on dialysis. Then because of this dialysis he was told by another Canadian doctor he can't do heart operation. He was visiting HK when he exper'd chest pain and was admitted to hospital. When he say Canadian doc said he can't do heart op because of dialysis, his comment was "This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard..."
Better? I think not.
98wongjf 1 year ago
@98wongjf In Germany if you have private insurance you get better health care but USA if you have medicaid you get better service
istraight1 1 year ago
RED HERRING my foot
linzoy 1 year ago
lol so if you can get poor people to sell their organs because they are less fortunate is not taking advantage?
Darusdei 1 year ago
@Darusdei They would be CHOOSING to, if they didn't want to, they wouldn't have to. That is not taking advantage....
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii it seems you don't understand what taking advantage means.
Darusdei 1 year ago
@Darusdei Ya, it means that someone is tricked or forced to do something they don't want to do. They would be conciously choosing to do this, and that is not taking advantage...
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@Darusdei
Dont mind aaasssfffdddiii he's just a troll, he was blatantly contradicting himself on his "real life" . On the "Bill Maher on France' utube post he was babling about how he experienced the French system, nothing made any sense. He described things that simply dont exist in France, like his wife being denied a hip surgery, then being placed on a waiting list. There arent any waiting lists for a hip surgery in France. He 's just vomiting Conservative propaganda talking points here.
Gargantua606 1 year ago
@Darusdei
That plus the fact aaasssfffdddiii 's page says he's 29, in here he says he spent 27 years in Canada, and on the "Bill maher on France" page he says he spent 6 years in France. Must be the only 29 year old that had a life experience amouting to 33 years. I guess when a nolife spends his days reading Conservative bullshit, he thinks it amounts to having lived several lives.
Apparently the top ten drugs manufactured by the US he constantly talks about are his morning breakfast.
Gargantua606 1 year ago
@Gargantua606 heh, i gave up already :D
Darusdei 1 year ago
@Darusdei
Lol, the guy's probably American , not Canandian, he usually says we or our when he talks about the US while defintely using they when he speaks about Canada. I doubt someone born in Canada and spending 27 years there would reference either Canada or the US that way.
He's just a Con loon, only that kind can talk about organ donations that way without blinking.
Gargantua606 1 year ago
@Darusdei
Yeah but he hasnt given up on me, he's trolling like a maniac on the "Bill maher on France" page.
What's funny is how he's given himself away, he was using verbatim the arguments used by the Cons for bashing socialized healthcare and that all refer to Canada. he was telling me he had experienced this and that in France, and they were the exact same arguments.
Not realizing waiting lists for operations dont exist in France (except for some really really rare ops, not hip surgery )
Gargantua606 1 year ago
or who would miss the organs of that dead soldier or that dead civilian?
Darusdei 1 year ago
Ever heard of Insulin perhaps?
2002 Pioneered the use of Botulinum Toxin A to reduce upper limb spasticity in children with cerebral palsy. (Bloorview Kids Rehab – Toronto, Ontario)
2003 Identification of a cancer stem cell responsible for brain tumors. This discovery may change how this deadly condition is studied and treated in the future. (Hospital for Sick Children — Toronto, Ontario)
just to name a few recent...
i think im done here.
Darusdei 1 year ago
@Darusdei I'm sorry, I had a typo in my last sentence. I meant so to say that you can't Argue that America DOESNT lead the world in medical innovation...
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
Looking for something that provides genuine knowledge in an unbiased, mature informed way into some aspects of this important debate? Please see “the U.S. Healthcare system in international Context:”
davijeph 1 year ago
@TheOptimistPrime Can you spell EXAGGERATE? Sorry to hear you are repuglican. Maybe someday you will outgrow it.
bodryn 1 year ago
As a Canadian I can assure those who view our medical system as some sort of nightmare that I LOVE our health care system and wouldn't trade it for the world! I am a low income individual so I pay nothing for my health care. I can go to the clinic on my street any day of the week for injuries, illness, or any other concerns I have and get great care, and referrals as needed. John Stossel is misrepresenting the truth, Canada and other developed countries have the best health care in the world.
ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS 1 year ago
@ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS You'll love it until you get cancer...
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii As it happens, I have a family member with breast cancer. She is receiving chemo therapy weekly, and has an oncologist who actually called her on a Sunday to check in on how she was feeling! I bet there aren't a lot of doctors who do that... There is also a sevice (which she doesn't need) to drive patients to and from the cancer centre. She will have to go for one month of radiation starting soon. All of this, the best care available, and she doesn't pay a cent.
ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS 1 year ago
@ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS No, Canada has much lower cancer survival rates than America. They also have dangerously long waiting times. Your family member probably got lucky. But most people have too wait until it is too late to get care. On top of that, our quality of care is SOO much better than it is in Canada. I would never trade our system.
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii What are you basing your beliefs on? I can only speak for my and my family's experiences. I have never heard of a cancer patient waiting for anything here (there have been too many people in my family with that horrid disease.) What makes you feel that Canadians suffer in our health care system? I believe Canadian cancer patients likely have higher survival rates because everyone gets proper treatment, unlike in the States where many people can't get treatment at all?
ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS I am simply stating facts. They are proven.
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Only in your own deluded brain.
bodryn 1 year ago 2
@ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS aaasssfffdddiii believes what she wants to and no information of any kind can make her learn anything. You can lead somebody to the truth but you can't make them think.
bodryn 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii You are so wrong! What a liar! My wife has had excellent care in Canada, including emergency surgery for two broken bones, and that on a Sunday morning. Like anywhere else, you need to make appointments to see specialists. I've been with her several times during doctor visits. Also, fast Canadian health care saved my life in 2006. In the US, I think I'd have been toast.
bodryn 1 year ago 2
@bodryn Then why are canadian coming over to our country to get care. Your wife was one of the lucky few.
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii You're completely mixed up! I don't know where you live but I grew up near Canada, and have spent lots of years in and out of Canada. You have no idea of what you know nothing about. Maybe you've been listening to FOX NOOSE. (lynching blacks one at a time).
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn "You have no idea of what you know nothing about" How can I have an intelligent conversation with somebody who uses this kind of logic. I obviously have no idea of what I know nothing about. Thats why I know nothing about it!!! Health Care is not one of those things. I know alot about health care...
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii To spell it out for you: you know nothing about Canadian health care as is made obvious by your statements. Also, FYI, my wife is an RN. She knows good health care when she experiences it. By the way, a lot is 2 words, not 1, as you have it.
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn I know enough to know how bad it is....
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii I have to wonder where you get your bizarre opinions regarding Canadian health care. You don't give any evidence, you just believe it's bad. "You know enough...." well, you're beyond reasoning with. No evidence, just beliefs. I think that's what propaganda has done to you.
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn aaasssturd thinks he knows everything about EVERYTHING!
I live in Blaine, WA on the border and know first-hand how good health care in Canada is. I waited 6 mths for an endoscopy last year. Paying out of pocket, I got one in BC for less than my HMO co-pay plus the Canadian doc took me off the unnecessary drugs my US doc had prescribed -which worsened things. I didn't even have GERD as the US doc diagnosed.
Health care should be about healthy patients, not making money off of them.
CylonCenturion 1 year ago
@CylonCenturion Thank you for confirming the truth. I don't know what GERD is, but the fact is, US docs too often prescribe expensive drugs - they must be getting kickbacks from Big Pharma or something. The corporate fat cats have perverted the entire system of health care in the US, and too many people don't realize it. People die from that kind of corruption.
bodryn 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Virtually no Canadian would even consider getting health care in the United States. Many of my relatives won't even go to the States because they are so nervous about the American lack of a health care system.
ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS 1 year ago
@ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS Wow, even though the US has made 8 of the last 10 most popular medicines in the world. We also have higher cancer survival rates than Canada. So our "lack" of Health Care is alot better han yours.
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Buddy, if you don't understand by now, then you aren't going to understand, and I'm going to stop wasting my time with you. If you are deeply satisfied by the health care you receive, then that is a wonderful thing, I hope you keep it. I am trying (harder than necessary) to demonstrate that as a Canadian, I am deeply satisfied by the health care that I receive. Hopefully you will never get screwed by the inadequacies of your 'system' nor I mine.
ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS 1 year ago
@ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS How could I get screwed by the best Health Care Sytem in the World? Yours isn't very good...
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Some of the most popular medicines made turn out to be bad for people and are taken off the market. Others SHOULD BE but are not. American health care is dangerous, and sort of like Russian roulette. I know from recent experience.
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn Yes, we need our lives controlled...
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Canadians have more health care freedom than US because US insurance companies control what they'll pay for. Canadians are free to choose their own doctors. In the US, corporations are controlling our lives way too much, but they make people think it's government's fault. If govt is controlled by corporations, then you know who to blame. Think it through.
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn You know nothing about either system. In Canada the Government chooses the doctors, and whether or not you are valuable enough to society to get care. IN the US care IS expensive, but if you are in an emergency situation then US hospitals are forced to take you in regardless of pay. We also have higher survival rates.
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii You are completely wrong. I ought to know - I've been with my wife many times for her care in Canada. Nobody but my wife has chosen the doctors she likes to go to. You are hopelessly ignorant about Canadian health care and I can't think of anybody who could ever show you the truth about anything. I don't know why you believe what you do, but if my direct evidence can't convince you, nothing can. Canadians life expectancy approx 3 years longer than Americans.
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn I understand that Communists like you don't believe that people should have opposing views. You are nothing more than Communist propaganda. Everybody knows that Canadian Health Care is a MESS. It is not near what we ahve in the US. Your wife is luck that the Canadian government deemed her valuable enough to society to receive Health Care. IT IS GLORIOUS!!!
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii So you think you can put your views down, but I cannot? And supposedly this makes me a communist? The great majority of Canadians like their health care, but they often stay away from the US because of US health care. Your mind is more of a MESS than Canadian health care. I have no idea where you get your crazy ideas. BTW, I am a US military veteran. Shouldn't you respect me for that?
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn How could a military vet disrespect our time old tradition of Capitalism. I do respect that about you, but that doesn't mean that I have to agree with you on this. You are ill-informed... I don't look down on you for that....
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii What do you think about Medicare and Veterans Administration health care? Those are hardly what you'd call Capitalism. Would you tear those down, too? Canadian health care is single payer health insurance, and costs less. Your claims about Canadian health care seem to be based on what you've been told by somebody. MIne are based on direct experience as well as being with my wife for some of hers. I don't know why you don't get that.
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn Actually, I would. I think we should replace them with vouchers and subsidies so people can buy private insurance. Government does NOTHING welll (Except for the military and security, and even those aren't great). Medicare is going BROKE. They are all screwed...
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii One problem I have with private insurance is that they profit by denying people coverage. It happened to me: On an 80/20 policy, an insurance company did NOT pay 80%, they only paid me 3% on a huge health care bill. And on a car insurance policy where I had "full" coverage, they totaled my van, valued my van at only $2150 when I had paid about $10,000 for it 4 years earlier. Fortunately I found an honest repairman who said he could fix it up, and he did.
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn What I am saying is, insurance companies seem to be as crooked as they can get away with. I prefer a government solution to no solution.
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn If there was no private market(and their evil profits) you wouldn't even have most of the new medicines that yo can't afford. In a truly free market system you wouldn't have the problems you have. I can prove this by pointing to the fact that 12 of the 20 biggest pharmeceutical companies are in America. America has the most availability of medical technology. And we have the highest survival rates for most diseases. I'm sorry, but you're living in a ideal world, not the one we live in...
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii Don't you know that many or most of the largest corporations are multinational? And they tend to want to move overseas? Their loyalty is not to America, just to profits. And that includes making stuff for things like germ warfare, chemical warfare, and whatnot. Remember Dow Chemical? I think you have drunk the Kool Aid. I don't think you can be reached by anybody. Certainly not me. Think I'll laugh at you from the sidelines now.
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn Laugh at me from the sidelines... what does that even mean. You are literally the most ill-informed person I know. There is a reason that almost every innovation comes from america, because we have a free market. Medicine availability is also the best in America, just please do some damn research before you talk again...
aaasssfffdddiii 1 year ago
@aaasssfffdddiii By multinational corporations...
bodryn 1 year ago
@ALLMYHEROSWEARMASKS I can agree that Canada has an excellent health care system. You can perhaps see that the media in the US has brainwashed many of the people so badly that they don't know what to believe. They don't have anything like CBC with objective news and analysis. They think NPR is similar but the NPR has been badly compromised by corporate sponsors. This situation is eerily similar to Germany in the 1930's.
bodryn 1 year ago
Michael Moore is such a joke. he never tells the truth, he is just a liberal moron.
dmeiske1 1 year ago
@dmeiske1 How could he be a moron if he's liberal? Many years ago, I learned that the noted liberal JFK was smart - in fact he had an excellent command of the language and a great wit as well, as seen at his press conferences. Too bad you missed out on that. Nobody else has ever been that good.
bodryn 1 year ago
The only question is: "Is Michael Moore stupid, ignorant, or malevolant?"
RedBloodReign 1 year ago
@RedBloodReign He's a good guy, who had to make movies like his in order to bypass the corporate Repuglican owned mass media. He keeps them on their toes, too. Good for him!
bodryn 1 year ago
@Halvegare1 You pay for your medicine too. We just have more choices, where as you have your government...
Z0mgZ0mbies 1 year ago
@TheOptimistPrime WHAT THE FUCKING SHIT!!!!!! Do you know a single canadian?!?!?!
fishontuesday 1 year ago
fuck michael moore
infinity999ful 1 year ago
all conservatives with a brain (5% ? who knows) but the point is, any of those people that try to call Canada's health care system "socialized" are truly disingenuous and intellectually dishonest - a single payer system by definition, is NOT socialist, look it up!
Claronium780 1 year ago
@Claronium780 Basically each person pays the government to act as insurer - thus avoiding crooked insurance companies that eat up like 35% off the top and have no basic reason to exist except to take money from people.
bodryn 1 year ago
Who is this 70's porn star? He should stick to his former career rather than his present one of being an apologist for the most wasteful, un-caring health system on earth. The fact is, in the US more bankruptcies occur as a result of medical expenses than from any other cause. Compare the health statistics of the US with any other developed country: Canada, Britain, Germany, Japan etc & the US is behind on almost all the major indicators.
MrHempenhomespun 1 year ago
@MrHempenhomespun Yep, it costs more, and does less, than almost any system on earth.
bodryn 1 year ago
government regulation of health care is the main cause of the health care industry's upward spiraling costs. The FDA, EPA, Medicare, and a host of other bureaucracies have created mountains of regulations that have led to the deaths of thousands and even millions of people who were denied needed treatments and resources. The cost of creating new treatments is also out of control because of this regulation.
polkg123 1 year ago
Man, Moore makes me laugh. Just what I want... Cuban Healthcare. I didn't need to see the video to know that the US has the best medicine in the world. That's why the majority of the worlds best doctors are in the US. I have no idea what his motivation is?
And yes, we PAY for healthcare. In one form or another, most working Americans pay for Healthcare, regardless of the time in which we actually pay-up. It could be in the form of taxes (Medicare), insurance, or direct.
dakin3d 1 year ago
@dakin3d Pay more, get less, thanks to Health Insurance companies that have no purpose other than to skim high profits off of denying people coverage. Single payer would put an end to that.
bodryn 1 year ago
My comments aren't showing up, so I'm sorry I placed duplicates, weird....
Clyaton 1 year ago
Raymond V. Damadian invented the MRI
He's AMERICAN born and raised.
Clyaton 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
How can any American DENY another American decent Health Care and access to a doctor because they are poor?? This is INHUMAN!!!
You Evil freeking people.....who raised you all?
How can you evil devils live with yourselves that say "^$%@ the poor....they don't deserve Health Care....let em get a JOB!"
What if there are NO jobs????
No wonder this country is so messed up...
PaulDougouba 1 year ago
@PaulDougouba Thought you should know: Seems repugs labeled your remarks as SPAM. I guess they don't want the truth out there.
bodryn 1 year ago
Insurance companies need to stop being exempted from all the anti-trust laws that are in place in the United States. The subsidies also need to stop.
DomingoHMaCoolstein 2 years ago
All we need is Tort reform and deregulation of the insurance industry to allow for interstate commerce and our problem would be solved not this stuipd government take over and reductions on your freedoms. please tell your reps to vote NO on this bill.
SaintLiam78 2 years ago 8
its not just the insurance companies...the cost of healthcare is an issue as well...people that dont have health insurance cant afford health care...thats because the cost it so high!
rabbit2110 1 year ago
@rabbit2110 - Blame it on HMOs and the legislated practice of relying on a third party to pay for healthcare costs.
Alternate2GOP 1 year ago
@SaintLiam78 Not just that. No more government mandates on what must be covered by third parties. We don't pay directly so prices are too high. It needs to be a true free market.
hurryingfred 1 year ago
@SaintLiam78 Tort reform is already the law in most of the states. I don't see it helping as you claim, though. Tort law is the last chance for individuals who have suffered medical malpractice, to have a chance at justice. Medical malpractice takes many forms, such as the prevalence of bad pharmaceuticals that are inadequately or even fraudulently tested, then sold.
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn well that may be so but ANYTHING would be better than Obamacare
SaintLiam78 1 year ago
@SaintLiam78 Well then, maybe you'll have to move to Mexico or something, to get away from it.
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn well with the number of states that are attempting to repeal the law, I see some hope for the future of this country if the states can just keep up the pressure,the downside is kagan was just confirmed so thats what 3 uber-libs on the court now....
SaintLiam78 1 year ago
@SaintLiam78 I'm not very happy with Obamacare - people being forced to buy health insurance. Canada has had a good system for years; it costs less, and does more for people. They've had it for 40 years or more. My wife has experienced it first hand, and by far it is far preferable over VA health care, which she and I both HATE.
bodryn 1 year ago
The system could be fixed without a government takeover. Deregulation (allowing ins. co. to compete across state lines) and a crack down on frivolous lawsuits against doctors would go a long way. In our state you get a choice of 2 ins. co., so there is actually no competition. Most people in the US that say they can't afford HC have new cars,cellphones,and tons of other crap they do not need. It;s not someone elses place to provide you with care, it's your priorities thatt need an overhaul!!!!
slg1373 2 years ago
stupid paranoid americans, when will you learn! Imagine cuba without free healthcare = even more poverty and neglect
healthcare in britain is the best :
ppjj8 2 years ago
healthcare in britain is not the best. it isnt as bad as cuba but it certainly isnt the best. all your innovation and medical technology comes from American medical companies. I have been in French, British, and German hospitals. the equipment i saw in the hospitals all bore American labels. even the drugs were American. Your system isnt bad, people are cared for, but it is terribly inneficient.
coverchenko 2 years ago
@coverchenko Ah yes, americans spend twice per capita more on healthcare than any nation on the planet yet the US healthcare is ranked #37 in the world, way behind every first world socialized healthcare system. Feel free to lecture the world about being" inefficient". We'll try no to let our hysterical laughter drown you out
tyronebumblebee 2 years ago
wellspoken i must say brotha..c republicans operate on tricking us because civics is so lacking in american classrooms go figure right
checkersq 2 years ago
Guess what, the government pays approximately HALF of all our healthcare costs currently... They are responsible for many of the reasons why health expenses got out of hand in the first place. FDA regulations, insurance regulations (some are necessary), Allowing easy fraud by Doctors jacking up costs of a $2 MRI to $100's because the government foots the bill. And how can the private market compete with government subsidies left and right? They are in the way, not the solution.
Clyaton 1 year ago
@coverchenko Really because American hospitals are full of medical equipment come from Japanese medical comapnies. I went with my mother for her MRI and they had a toshiba Machine. Sorry buddy Japan is the number one in medical innovation now.
chrisfo19 2 years ago
Umm, fact check. The inventor was named Raymond V. Damadian, he was born in America, went to school in America, and invented the MRI in America... Socialized healthcare also benefits from drugs that are created here which have research fees, which other countries don't have to pay, and create their generics free of charge.. Just because Japan manufactures something cheaper than us, doesn't mean they 'innovated' anything, I'm sure they have their achievements though..
Clyaton 1 year ago
Raymond V. Damadian is American, and he invented the MRI..... Born, raised, educated, and practiced HERE.
Clyaton 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Clyaton "Damadian is American, and he invented the MRI"
Forget who invented MRI, it used to be called NMR for "Nuclear Magnetic Resonance", the principle technology behind MRI, a non-destructive vibration of the neutrons and protons within the nuclei of the body's atoms (not cells) to create a resonant pattern variable with atomic density in the various tissues. It was discovered by Isidor Rabi, a Jew in 1938. In 1946, Felix Bloch and Edward Mills Purcell refined the technique at MIT.
seismedia 1 year ago
I live in America and I get crappy care. My health insurance company denied me treatment for 3 months for a serious back issue. My doctor told me that they would only authorize pain killers, and not the physical therapy that I had requested. People seems to stick to party lines when determining what side of the debate they are on. I'm generally conservative although I believe that the system needs to be changed. As it stands now, for profit companies determine what type of treatment we get.
Attila226 2 years ago
your right. we have let overbloated insurance companies, which are protected by the goverment, run our healthcare. that needs to stop. we need deregulation and a more competitive market for private healthcare. you should be able to get what services you want, not your insurance company.
coverchenko 2 years ago
@Attila226 And sadly, their biggest profits seem to come from denying coverage. I had a giant medical bill in 2007 and an "80/20" policy paid only 3% of it. If that's insurance coverage, I'll take Single Payer any day of the week.
bodryn 1 year ago
At least michael moore stands up and voices AN opinion. I hope that all of you who are opposed to universal healthcare get screwed by the insurance companies. I really do.
tudman19 2 years ago
Rep,Teapartiers,Beck are CEOcommunists...They want you pay your bloody rates to the CEOs gains and private health care bureaucracy!
40 milions US uninsured citizens and US bailed out economy really need a National Health Care (Single Payer) founded by progressive tax (not flat tax) on the capital gains.
Single Payer Now!
oddcoupple 2 years ago
20 million of the uninsured you speak of are ILLEGAL aliens, and half of whats left have access to care they just don't prioritize it. They feel other things are more important. In my state anyone without access to HC can already get a policy from the state,but it's not FREE the way they want it so they don't sign up. It all comes down to priorities. Stop waiting for someone else to take care of you and your family and become an adult.
slg1373 2 years ago
@slg1373 Just wait until YOU find your insurance coverage pulls the rug out from under you AND your house AND your life as you once knew it. Then maybe you'll sing a different tune.
bodryn 1 year ago
@tudman19 I think the ones who oppose universal health care are the ones who haven't yet had to use their insurance coverage, so they don't know how bad it is.
bodryn 1 year ago
owned
jmac800 2 years ago
Hi, I'm from the Netherlands. Quick question: I watched Moore's documentary Sicko but I can NOT believe that you actually have to PAY for your medical treatments in the United States (of all countries). Surely this must be a lie from Moore. Please confirm this, I'm really worried.
Ah, and yes: my country also has universal healthcare. Instead of paying a monthly fee to an insurrance company, I pay a monthly tax.
Halvegare1 2 years ago
Of course people in the US pay&you do as well-you just admitted it.What made it so costly was gov't intervention into medicine, whether with Medicare, meds, or licensing, everything they did made the cost for the individual rise.People used to be able to pay for treatments, ordinary visits, and meds out of pocket, carrying only catastrophic ins(ie, for cancer & the like).
truindep 2 years ago 2
Well, that's kind of a confirmation of what I meant. US citizens having ensurances to the big things and paying themselves for the rest is a line of thoughts I really dont believe.
I pay a monthly tax, around 100 of your dollars, an no matter what happens to me: cancer, sniffles, broken bones, trauma and whatnot; it's going to be okay. I dont have to worry about money. I find it very disappointing that a nation like the US treasures free-market over the health of its citizens. Am I wrong here?
Halvegare1 2 years ago
@Halvegare1 The US has become pathetically controlled by big multinational corporations. The individual people get mediocre health care, sometimes go bankrupt from medical bills, may end up homeless. War veterans go to big VA hospitals for treatment that often are bureaucratic nightmares. Latest ploy is denying people the right to make medical appointments more than 2 months in advance. What next? I don't know.
bodryn 1 year ago
truindep same can be said for the higher education system as well. I have a feeling govt. somewhat played a role in pushing up those tuition rates. Can't seem to go for a 4 year degree without taking out a loan. Nowadays I compare that with what I pay in rent and find it is just not worth it at the moment when it comes to taking courses at some 4 year universities.
shaithis45 2 years ago
@truindep "What made it so costly was gov't intervention"
For all the vilification of Insurance Co.s, they are in fact the creation of a meddling Federal Government. In 1946, FDR put a wage cap supposedly to keep inflation at bay. As a result, employers anxious to hire during the post war boom, short of men lost in war or still in the service (remember, Japanese and German occupations kept the military busy). That left industries with "fringe benefits" like health to recruit workers.
seismedia 1 year ago
and the Netherlands is the same size as America and also has 300 million people in it last time i checked, does it?
todds1182 2 years ago
Right, because scale is the problem.
My country has 400 inhabitants per square kilometer, while the US only has 32. Do you think that has anything to do with why or why not government funded healthcare works?
Honestly, are you Americans affraid of your government? Where does this idear come from? Is the word "social" really scaring off the anti-communists?
Just let me say this: the dutch labor-unions whould've made mincemeat out your system a long time ago.
Halvegare1 2 years ago
well yes scale can be a problem but i dont think it is in america. it is true that europeans have access to healthcare, but that doesnt mean they get it. access simply means that they dont have to pay for it when they walk in the hospital. i saw people waiting in lines that spanned blocks simply to get a dental appointment in Germany. government is inneficient and stifles innovation. thats why we americans dont want the government running our healthcare.
coverchenko 2 years ago
@Halvegare1 President Ronald Reagan declared war on the labor unions by firing a bunch of federal employees: Air traffic controllers who went out on strike. He got away with it, and in effect began effectively destroying the union movement in the US.
bodryn 1 year ago
@Halvegare1 - Exactly, 400 inhabitants per square KM versus 32 means that the US also has to put far more infrastructure in to support the system because of distances between people. Thus, the cost of your system transplanted to the US rises practically exponentially.
Your unions would be ridiculed as idiots for trying to transplant your system because it is folly at best and vastly damaging at worst.
Slipknotyk06 1 year ago
@Halvegare1 "Instead of paying a monthly fee to an insurrance company, I pay a monthly tax"
Goede dag! But, you're not really so daft as to think because you pay a "tax" instead of an "insurance premium", that you're getting your healthcare for free, do you? Maybe the difference is that Americans like being free and independent and deciding how, when, and where to spend our money, rather than have it snatched from our wallets and the decisions made by some government bureaucrat or committee.
seismedia 1 year ago
@seismedia Naw, it's really because they are scared of "socialism" and think it's like communism, because of the McCarthy witchhunts of the early 50's. McCarthy lost his Senate career, but the fear syndrome continues, like any chronic disease....
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn "because they are scared of "socialism" and think it's like communism"
No, it's because "Americans like being free and independent and deciding how, when, and where to spend our money, rather than have it snatched from our wallets and the decisions made by some government bureaucrat or committee"
Don't be daft!
seismedia 1 year ago
@Halvegare1 This creep who answered you states the obvious while also endorsing lies and half-truths. The fact is, many Americans go bankrupt because their insurance does not pay as advertised. And in Canada, where everyone is covered, government negotiates the prices down to make it more affordable. Americans pay more than any other country because nobody has been protecting them from exploitive health care inflation.
bodryn 1 year ago
@Halvegare1 - We also have substantially lower income tax than you guys.
Slipknotyk06 1 year ago
@Slipknotyk06 Yeah, could be as much as 5% lower, or even more. US used to have up to 90% income tax on highest earners when Eisenhower was President. John F. Kennedy lowered it to 78%. Now it's about 35% but if Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire it will "balloon" to about 39%. Hmmm - can we get foreign aid?
bodryn 1 year ago
@bodryn - The 91% tax rate was created under FDR while fighting a war.
The fastest that Income tax has ever been lowered in the USA was under Reagan. It went from 78% all the way to 28%.
Now, I believe that both Corporate Income Tax and Personal income tax need to be lowered and simplified. You do know that the highest personal income tax was 7% in the roaring 20s, and the highest income tax on business was 25% at the same time?
Slipknotyk06 1 year ago
The one thing I am happy about is Michael Moore will burn in hell for his shit!!
HeyWakeUpPeople 2 years ago