wing chun chi sau

[kievGorodGod]

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[Laddaeus]

My brother does WT. Alwas tryin to show me this sticky hands/Chisau chat, but the real truth is when in a street fight situation is that ever ever gonna happen. Plus all this workin on feeds. In the street you cant ask some1 to punch in a certain way so why all this limited situation training and no sparring. Not to offend, just question!

[DaveMcKeown]

Chi sau is not a sparring method as such. By using this method of training we do not have 'this attack, and that attack', we have whatever the combination of my hands and my partners hands are doing, and whatever spins off from that. Its not as you seem to think it is, tho I do know the WT people approach it differently to us? I've had a few 'street fights' over the years, and at 47 I'm still here and still in 1 piece... so I know it works :oD

[jmichaeldk]

What happens in a real fight is that you trow your arms agains the atacker in the shortest way direct. then the training of chisau make you react fast if you meet something on your way ;0) - Yes Wing Tsun have a different understanding - Peace from a WT instructor DK

[wolfywolfet]

There is a spot of hostility on here, Just chill and do your own things. My instructor your instructor, my sweets your sweets blah blah blah.

The video looks ok to me. Well done guys, remember why we all got into the martial scene in the first place and how enjoyable it can be. I hate politics in martial arts , who cares just train.

[DaveMcKeown]

to wolfie...we just get on with doing our thing and hopefully get better at Wing Chun. The rest is just ego and bollox. Thanks for your coments mate.

[uggui]

So for a change you should put up or shut up and if you're that good then go to them, to their face not on the net! BTW be nice to hear your comments as everyone usually sees your wife's, due to the fact you are to inarticulate to post your own

[DaveMcKeown]

ah you again, found me in another place have we?.

Tell Billy to fight his own battles and not hide behind idiots like yourself. You make the insults maybe, but i hold him responsible, and it is he who I will be discussing all this trash with

[DaveMcKeown]

...and that should be 'too' inarticulate, whos the inarticulate one here? tell billy i will happily accept his challenge any time and to contact me. He wants to play he can do it up front rather than hiding behiond students. Or he (and you)could grow up?

[dragenzX]

The more trash these people talk Dave the more I like you and your school. I'am a student of the Leung Ting System, who's students are famous for being stuck up and ignorant to they ways of communication. For the most part there skill is good, but just like every WC/VT/WT master he has crappy students at well. But not all of us! Your attitude shows an open mind and skill to match!

[spudzandgravy]

Everyone eats and drinks; yet only few appreciate the taste of food. Confucius. 1,thank you for posting the vid,very good. 2,you are correct in teaching chisau from the start, it lets students get the movements in there head. 3.forget about the above people who say know the movements perfectly but do not understand the theory on how to usethem, as my sifu says you always know a fool when he opens his mouth.good luck on your WC journey.

[DaveMcKeown]

thank, thats a lovely comment. I just *do* wing chun, and teach my students to love it as i do. My way isnt for everyone, but we all have different approaches, thats what makes wing chun the art it is. take care, my friend :oD

[DaveMcKeown]

I have Cheungs books. Crap.I am not a Yip Chun instructor, thou thats the first form I learned. I am now independant yes, certificated as an instructor since 1989 ....but I still remember where the water flows from.

[thehit121]

I did Ip Chun for a long time - it is indirect to say the least but each to their own! As for William Cheung did none of you see the Boztepe fight when he clearly bettered the 'master' - William Cheung did some great stuff for Wing Chuen don't get me wrong but he never even learnt Biu Jee, have you read his book? Seen the form? Independent, thats fine, I got an instructor certificate in 2000 but never taught as I saw the flaw in my technique.

[zippyismyusername]

Boztepe jumped William Cheung and they both fell on the floor floundering around like fish, hardly a great moment for either instructor. Both have plenty to offer in regards to Wing Chun though and that's all that matters.

[DaveMcKeown]

Thanks for your comment Dragen. They ARE doing poon in the background by the way :oD Wing Chun is a very relaxed martial art, or at least the way I teach it, it is... relaxed muscle moves faster than tense.

[dragenzX]

sorry got cut off, I was gonna say, but it is so much fun to watch your instructor school one of the higher lvl students in the class at that time. Everyone is having fun and that is very important. Not to mention giving the ladies some decent self defense. Good Job Man! If you want to help your center Line- Leung Ting's guys are generally pretty good at the centerline and its theory's. Keep up the good work!

[zippyismyusername]

dragenzX, yeh Dave is a great guy and he provides a relaxed atmosphere in which the students can ask questions and learn. Iv trained with a couple of leung Ting students and they are very good on centreline.

[dragenzX]

ahh how nice fun and friends messing with one another. Gotta love the students in the back ground, so busy watching there instructors, they forget to work out. I've done it many a time. Of course for all I know there just doing poon sau, but

[DaveMcKeown]

hahaha. Nice one Chris. Had me going for a while.

As you say in your email, close friends and suicidals lol

[DaveMcKeown]

is there some reason why I should recognise your user name? do you have a zip across your mouth, no, I'd have remembered someone like that.

[zippyismyusername]

Wish I did mate, It's me chris, thought you would have recognised my username from cagewarriors mate. I would not mess with Steve anyways but I do need to clean those mats more often.

[DaveMcKeown]

The mats aren't really dirty, they are cleaned regularly. I think its just the choice of colour... red with a dark blue border, and dark blue lower walls, but thanks for your comments :D

[zippyismyusername]

There are also a load of flags, what is that about the owner needs a good kicking. Dirty mat and united nations flags, what fags.

[DaveMcKeown]

the owner of the gym is Steve Jones, JKD guy who trained with hartsell and demille over in the states, and is one *hard* guy. I'm sure he'll be happy to know hes being called a 'fag'. And there was me thinking you were making intelligent comments eh?

[zippyismyusername]

I'm suprised you dont recognise the username. That Steve wont last long or the geeky guy who does BJJ.

[DaveMcKeown]

Steves been around a while, mate, And you are referring to Chris? Go the whole way and tell us who you are and we are complete.

[zippyismyusername]

To be honest the only thing I dont like about this video is the mat, it looks dirty and needs a clean. Someones head should role for not cleaning it!!

[stickyhandskevin]

Hey guys lest not forget Ng Mui!

[FITGREATGUY]

Ya know, someone said something about Yip Mans Top Student; however, Grandmaster William Cheung is the only one he taught Traditional before his death. He did the circuit fighting GM's & they resolved this issue. Modified WC fights in the center & falls into the trap boxers and karate guys do; Traditional always cuts angles; arm positioning is diff.. I'll be in China for 2 wks Catch up w/ya then

[DaveMcKeown]

I dont know if the bros were his 'best', I sincerely doubt it tho..Wong Shun Leung and Ho Kam Ming are/were excellent. My wing chun is Yip Family, yes, but I amnow independent and making my own conclusions, looking for more explanations, trying to understand more.

[h2321]

ok let me clearify this, the sons of yip man didnt learn all of his wing chun and they are just average students of yip man. look up master"ho kam ming" and u know wat i mean, the top student of yip man( pic as proof in his website)

[zippyismyusername]

Top student does not equal top instructor. You can only learn the same exact system if you are genetically the same, which is doubtful.

[h2321]

u dont chase their hands to stick with, u make them stick to ur hands. To do this u must always have a forward force on both of ur hands. The point is to control ur enemy , not let them control u.

[zippyismyusername]

Now that makes sense now!! Forward energy is an important aspect as long as that energy is controlled.

[DaveMcKeown]

my 'centre' line is why I'm looking at WSL, theres a problem in my structure. Looking for the answer in SLT, but getting a new perspective by having a second look at WSL while I'm at it. Have to track down these 'bad habits' and root em out at the scource.

Thanks for your comments bro !

[synkronyk]

if thats what you wanna do you muct go to train with barry lee in germany.

[GeoWingChun]

I think we may have rolled in HK you and I at your Sigung's club. Your sifu is a student of Ip Ching. That being said, the luk sau is still a tad speedy and might be a little fast and loose with the center line cousin. No disrespect intended. P.S. I'm not so sad ;)

[DaveMcKeown]

sad to see us people?

Sad to have so many comments from people who obviously dont know what they are talking about I'd say. My inoriginal wing chun is Yip Family, thats pretty original in my book

[h2321]

it's sad to see u ppl learning the inoriginal wing chun and getting rip off. i can see ur hands just flipping in and out without much control. The point of chi sau is to make ur opponent to stick his hand to urs inorder to block ur attacks, u dont chase around his hands. If his hands are off, u just have to hit his chest..

[zippyismyusername]

What is original?

"The point of chi sau is to make ur opponent to stick his hand to urs inorder to block ur attacks"

What? you mean you are helping your opponent to block your own attacks, please read what you have written it does not make sense.

[DaveMcKeown]

power is generated from the floor, and directed by the hips to the hands. the low 'traingle' shape keeps centre of grav low and allows us to 'root'.

Not really enough space in these things to go very deeply into it but send me an email if you want to discuss :oD

[AxelderKonig]

What is your theory on power generation?

[witzat]

Nice to see these clips circulating the net, would love to train in that class, seems very relaxed. Not a lot to choose from here in Northern Ireland :(

[DaveMcKeown]

BMI Baby, £1.99 return if you book in advance to Manchester Airport. We'll have the kettle on when you arrive lol

:oD

[DaveMcKeown]

My main teacher has been Master Samuel Kwok, but I have also trained with a few others (David Peterson, Micheal Tse, Nino Bernardo et al) to get a feel of different approaches. Got to keep an open mind with wing chun, once you close your mind you close your ability to learn. :oD

[AxelderKonig]

I also like the way that you lean forward during chi sao, thats really in synch with wing chun principles. And try to keep your heels on the ground, that will help you generate and absorb much more force, and roll your tailbone forward. Who is your teacher by the way?

[AxelderKonig]

Yes I do practice wing chun. I have practiced for 13 years actually and from the wing chun I've seen, yours is pretty typical. Starting a new student on chi sao Immeadiatly? that's a good idea, that way you can throw him/her into the deep end before they have learned the proper angels... good plan!

P.S. "Lovely comment"

[DaveMcKeown]

just a last comment, I thanked the other chap for his nice comments because they were nice comments, and showed a thoughtful character, nothing more. People can read it as they like, but it was just good manners.

[AxelderKonig]

Right, but if you disenagage his arm just for a low strike, what's to stop him from going to your "hole" and hitting you in the face?

[DaveMcKeown]

axelder.... my other hand?

Only one hand goes for lower strike, second hand stays at wu, or exploits any OTHER holes whilst roviding force for withdrawing the first.

Wing Chun is a two handed system, and tho they work together they also work individually.

[DaveMcKeown]

contact me by email, had enough of your pointless comments..'this is very good start'? Do you actually practice wing chun?

[wingchunlearner]

to axelder: praise him, he likes "lovely comment", otherwise, that would be called "pointless". this is narrow-minded. Let's say he is the best, he is the best...

[mrjack001]

That's a bit harsh....

This video is all about trapping and manupulating the opponent's balance, (as well as the sensitivity involved) I can see a lot of skill here, which the host is willing to share! What's your problem with it??

[jojen15]

The whole world can see ,It is possible:nice teacher and good music .I like it very much

[DaveMcKeown]

jojen, what a lovely comment. Thank you :oD

[DaveMcKeown]

I think many wing chun people have some claim to be related to Bruce Lee. Wong Shun Leung I know was a close friend, but in reality, Bruce Lee was only a chum kiu student, never learned the whole system.

[wingchunlearner]

You think? yes, you could only think because you were not here. claim? whatever u say! i have been trying to be nice to you, but it seems u quite love to look down upon me. i don't need to tell how much i have got. keep doing what u are doing. frog inside the well.

[DaveMcKeown]

very witty my friend. Frog inside the well indeed.

If you are just looking for an argument go elsewhere. or come to UK and do it in person, snide remarks left on youtube are just pathetic.

[DaveMcKeown]

I have not 'looked down on you , though I admit, I am now. What on earth is your problem?

I dont care who does what wing chun, or why, I just train and teach. As I said, take it elswhere or do it in person.

[DaveMcKeown]

I just visited you.. there appears to be somone else whosnose you are getting up with your remarks.

Maybe you should look harder at that patch of sky you see....the frog can only know the well, and you my friend are a frog.

[AxelderKonig]

Dave, you seem to frequently apply a palm strike to the face, and when it's blocked you opt to then strike low. This is a very good start, but make your movements much smaller. The firt thing I do is strike forward immeadiatly if some one does that to me.

[DaveMcKeown]

not entirely sure what you're saying... chi sau encourages you to go to the 'holes'. If I take his hands high then the lower gates open and vice versa...?

[Ansatsuken]

That looks real fun, lol

So relaxed and fluid, though its obvious whos boss in that clip ^^

*****

Im a goju guy but very interested in learing chi sau, could you email me some basic advice please? perhaps a few basic exercises i can do with a partener or alone maybe?

[DaveMcKeown]

Thanks, it is fun but thats the way we approach training. Whats the point of doing what you love doing if you don't enjoy doing it?

Send me an email (chingwu@ntlworld.com) and we can chat re learning. I was a karateka myself for many years so have a lot of respect for GoJu :oD

[wingchunlearner]

poor bong sau and foke sau. when u move, keep the force be forwarding, not to the sides. by the way, theoretically the punch should be going along the track at the center line, unless you are forced to do so otherwise. but during chisau, just stick to this theory.

[DaveMcKeown]

again, every wing chun is different.

My bongs and fooks aren't 'poor' and once you begin Chum Kiu, the principles start to change...we no longer stick so rigidly to the Sil Lum Tao 'track'. Chum kiu is about angles and stance changes, taking the structure tot he enemy, Biu Jee moves onto spirals...each form a seperate set of principles.

How long have you been training for?

[wingchunlearner]

i did not mean to be offensive. i just commented according to what i saw. of course, i should have tried that before making comments. you think yours aren't poor, well you have confidence, that is enough. use your kungfu when you need to. again, i did not mean to be offensive. perhaps i might be too rigid, as influenced by my sifu. by the way, not very long, i started practising wing chun 17 years ago.

[DaveMcKeown]

I've had a few different teachers over the yearsm and come to understand different forms. My form contains Yip Chun, Yip Ching and Wong Shun Leung. Each has a different outlook, and each of their wing chuns are totally different...though still sticking to the basic principles. You will find that the yip ching is powerfull, using more 'turning' than some others, Yip Chun very soft, and Wong Shun Leung very mechanically efficient yet slinkey. I'm just a learner on the path like yourself

[AncientWarrior555]

Nice background music! I'm a certified sifu in the Ip Ching lineage & I have to agree, Ip Ching style does have allot of turning especially in the knife form!!! The emphasis on the turning generates allot of torque & unbelievable POWER - YIU MA!!!

[DaveMcKeown]

one last point for 'wing chun learner'...the guy I am chi sauing with had only been training about a year at the time, so my chi sau can only go at his speed and to his level of ability. Were you able to chi sau at that level when you had only 1 year in? as stated, I teach chi sau from day 1. I understand your comments were not intended to be rude, maybe its a language problem. Which 'style' of wing chun do you practice?

[jashman2]

where are the bong saus???

all you do is raise your arms a bit

and the guys in the background are just playing with each ohters hands...

[DaveMcKeown]

interesting comments.

[DaveMcKeown]

er sorry...interesting comments... not.

missed a bit out.

[DaveMcKeown]

bongs....the way I see it bongs are inefficient above shoulder level, after that its in Bil territory, unless we use the 'casting bong' which I got from Master Sam kwok,. The 'guys in the background were, at the time, quite new. Yes they are 'playing with each others hands' because I introduce chi sau into my syllabus right from day 1.

This comment may have been recieved better had it been less rudely put forward.

[balletman]

At risk of sounding ignorant, how is chi sau different than chin na?

[DaveMcKeown]

chi na is 'joint manipulation', or 'locks'.

Chi Sau is an exercise we use in wing chun to play with each others defences, test each other. It has an aspect of chi na, but more.

[morte666wingchun]

chin na builds up ur muscle strenth and stamina(it also makes sure u have the forword energy in the right place),if ur doing chin na right u shudnt b able 2 do it any longer thn 5 mins;also in chin na all u do is roll there is no attacks in it!!chi sau when ur doing tht right u shud b able to do it 4 ages!!!hope tht helped

[mrjack001]

Finally a good chi sau vid on the net!!!!!! You look familiar Dave, do I know you???

[scoobydo]

Like you said, not perfect, but then again, who is?

Keep training. Cheers.

[DaveMcKeown]

everyone chi saus differently, every wing chun is different. Nature of the beast. The vid wasn't 'planned' or rehearsed, just a bit of fun.

and thanks, I will keep on training lol

[DaveMcKeown]

depends who you are I suppose, whether you're someone who knows me or not lol