Sons of Darkness, Sons of Light - PT1: Collectivism (2of3)

[Pymander81]

You seem too busy shirking or ignoring the points made with knee jerk responses to understand the information you are given. Anyone who tries to argue in favor of blank slate theory in the end is going to lose, simply because the majority of scientific and psychological evidence stands against it. And as long as Peter Joseph tries to promote blank slate theory (which he essentially does) his little "zeitgeist movement" will fade into the ether. Many people intuitively recognize a sham.

[Pymander81]

Sbranch: You seem to have missed the entire point of the film, which is that Collectivism and Individualism ARE NOT supposed to be a dichotomy, but symbiotic social functions. It is when people (or governments) pervert one function or the other for political gain that they become "dichotomous". This is why we promote a "Collective of Individuals", a collective which nurtures individualism as the most important key to a healthy "collective".

[Pymander81]

You are saying that environmental obstruction is proof of blank slate, which is a confused assumption many people make. A child chained in a basement may not be able to choose where he goes or what he eats at that moment, but those factors are meaningless compared to his choice of personal identity, which no one can affect accept the child. There were plenty of people in Nazi Germany who CHOSE not to become Nazis. Plenty of people with Buddhist parents who CHOOSE not become Buddhist.

[socratiz]

Monetary system Perpetuates LIMITED resources. Why? Simple. The smaller amount of something in existence the more its worth. ex. OIL, Clean Water, Diamonds.

Could u sell water next 2 a mountain spring with clean water?

What we see today IS a product of the monetary sys. Not Fiat currency. This system CREATED the environment 4 Fiat currency.

Corruption is Inevitable in a system that perpetuates it.

No difference then BS "security"

"Injustice Anywhere Threatens Justice Everywhere"

[megalodonNL]

@socratiz

Exactly

[socratiz]

Let me try to make a big statement with a simple point.

You raise a young child in a basement. Chain him to a wall, and feed him dirt. Please tell me the value of his free will.

You raise a 1 year old buddhist boy in nazi germany. He never once hears/sees any type of buddhist philosophy, will he grow up to be a buddhist?

The language section was a joke. The human body evolves through one lifetime to have complex skills of speaking. Which language he speaks is ENTIRELY environment.

[sbranch]

Collectivism VS Individualism is a false dichotomy to begin with. People like Griffin and Jones and neithercorp don't address emergence because they are traditionalists. They gave up listening before PJ got his point across.These guys are traditionalists, capitalists through and through. If people started to see an actual solution then it would put the capitalists out of business. Griffin is a windbag. Alex is a news man with a bias. Neithercorp is too busy debating the undebatable to care.

[battlestarvfx]

@sbranch And Capitalism is bad for what reason again? No seriously... still haven't had someone explain that and actually make any sense.

[sbranch]

Any capitalist/monetary system can only create monopoly and cartel. Explain to me how either of those things are not bad.

[battlestarvfx]

You seem to forget the proper involvement of government and individual rights (in effect the rule of law with regards to property rights) as protected through a constitution or charter when applied to a capitalist/monetary system. It's a proper balance and keeps things in check normally unless the populace goes nighty night and stops paying attention. The influences that drive that sleepy bed time activity are usually put forward by those who need to remove one balance to gain power. socialism?

[sbranch]

This doesn't explain how monopoly and cartel are not bad. You are also admitting that the current property paper proclamation system in place today doesn't solve the problem of cartel and monopoly. No matter how many laws you can make to prevent it, someone has the money to over turn it. Sleepy time people aren't the problem. The monetary system is the root cause. A proper balance of power can never be maintained because of it. I am glad you agree that monopoly and cartel are bad by the way.

[battlestarvfx]

I am not admitting anything. Don't put words into my posts I don't write., Actually the monetary system works just fine but there is a caveat to that. If it was still cash based. If it was actually CASH or hard currency ( backed in gold) in day to day use like it should be instead of credit (speculation and debt trading, which opens up wrongful manipulation) then we wouldn't have these problems, not like this. And what cartel? What monopoly? Are you talking about the Federal Reserve?

[Neanderthalcouzin]

I've researched the Venus Project and the Zeitgeist Movement and I wouldn't call it collectivism, but people can call it what they want, the rational tenets its built upon is very persuasive.

As for the forest/tree example, we can argue anything's an abstraction, including the tree itself.

I think it's better to take in the details of their arguments and ideas than labeling them, because this discourages openness to their ideas.

[Neanderthalcouzin]

None of these things feature in the ideas of the Venus Project. Not only is it not a system of control, but they've spoken openly that it would not force anyone into compliance, and that if people chose to live outside of their proposed cities and societies, they could do this at their leisure. Peter Joseph has stated quite plainly that he finds the whole 'ism' thing backwards, and contrary to their ideas. They essentially acknowledge constant change, which denies any set 'ism'.