what do you think after seeing the second season?
i think what whedon wanted the show to be, was rejected by the channel it was airing on, because it was to depressing and dark, so he had to make changes.
so maybe the original concept would have been all you would wish for.
I really loved SCC. I really hated Dollhouse. It was so damn awful. I'm very much inclined to blame Eliza Dushku for Dollhouse since she had a deep investment in it and helped come up with the concept. I think it was supposed to be a vehicle to show off her acting talents. *cough* I loved SCC, but I did feel that it struggled to keep plot threads together sometimes. I wish we got another season because I will miss those characters so much.
Totally agree with you on the Sarah Conner Chronicles. When you look at the Terminator films, the worst ones were the most recent ones. The ones without Sarah Connor. This was a character who was strong and a woman and they didn't try to glam her with some form hugging pvc suit. The series also, I mean I really wanted to know what was gonna happen at the end. Sarah Connor on her own and John Connor in a future he didn't help forge. More gripping than Dollhouse I have to say.
Joss Whedon did write a series that was "critical and analytical, and still has social commentary, while still being entertaining and fun" It was called Firefly, and it only ran for 13 episodes, for a number of reasons. So, fox no longer actually wants tv shows of value from Joss, just fun one shot shows. However, I think that if Dollhouse had been permitted to run another season Joss would have delved deeper into the gray area of Dollhouse and really expanded upon it. Also, love for November <3
The fact that Joss Whedon got you talking about the rape issue was what he wanted, because Dollhouse is a show about how corporations will always try to force their opinions about what we--as a consumer society--want, down our throats. To the point where we have no free will and that the true evil is when good people stand by and do nothing. Hence you have these characters who believe they are doing good works when in fact they're not. I defer you to Firefly and Serenity for further study.
I also liked that not ALL the female "dolls" were of the standard anorexic proportions. "November" (Miracle Laurie) was a doll who figured into the story quite regularly, and she has a full, healthy figure. Not only that, but she got to be seen as beautiful and sexy, and even seduces one of the main characters (in "doll" mode, but still...). I was so amazed at this! A normal, full-figured woman is usually a background character or the "fat friend" of the female lead, but this girl just got to b
While I agree that there were elements of sexism and objectification in "Dollhouse", it did have its moments. I loved Olivia Williams' character in that she wasn't made to be like a stereotypical brothel "madame", she was a beautiful, strong, intelligent businesswoman. Sure she would come off as ruthless sometimes, but you could see she felt a growing sense of guilt in the whole Dollhouse program and what it did to people.
Even though I've gained the impression the show does a decent job pointing to and critcizing the disturbing level of objectification of women and human beings in general through the extreme example of Dollhouse, I like and agree with some of the points you've made. Humanizing the Dollhouse staff adds to a realistic portrayal of people responsible for social ills, but, as contradictory as that sounds, I'm always sickened when a piece of fiction tries to make us sympathetic towards such figures.
While I didn't like Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles as much as you did, but I liked the characters and thought it had a lot of potential. It seemed like it ended just as it was finally getting good. I think it's problem was it didn't know where it was going for a long time. It seemed story threads were brought up and then abandoned. But like I said, in the last half season before they were canned it seemed like they were getting there act together.
I liked both shows and both shows had exactly two seasons. Obviously, a year later I get to write in hindsight of season two, but I always thought it had exactly the nuances and moral dilemmas that many claimed it lacked. Joss has a habit of building stories slowly, which gets him into trouble.
Terrible thing about TSCC being canned, what with the direction it was headed and practically no objectification or over-simplification of the characters, quite the contrary.
But most people are looking for a quick junk food, not a example of fine cuisine that requires time to be appreciated.. No quite accusing Dollhouse of such because I did not see past the first episode for reasons I cannot remember, but still...
Dollhouse was simply one of the most awful tv series I have ever laid eyes on. I stopped watching after Season 1 since I couldn't get into it. And I felt like you about the Sarah Connor Chronicles, actually I sometimes think about the show and what would have become of it had it been renewed.
Actually, I always figured Sarah Conner was a pretty decent female character in the Terminator franchise as a whole, but I need to watch this show on the strength of yours, and other folks I know, recommendation.
I don't see how Bones is a good example of male killers. Booth struggles with killing a lot, and there are more subtle themes about how he struggles with the way men are supposed to be able to kill without feeling and how Booth has kind of suppressed his feelings, and yet when people bring up the people he's killed, he's very sensitive about it.
I fairly certain that doll house would be a hundred times better if fox weren't part of the equation. Fox is just a very stupid network that was constantly fucking with doll house from the beginning. I would like to see sarah chronicles which probably didn't last because it was good and fox hates good shows.
I thought that the idea of creating a system--an institution--that was abhorrent to most people, yet contained characters with which we could laugh, cry and feel was a clever one. It mirrors some other societal institutions we live through or in today. In the same vein, people who perpetuate the dominant, patriarchal, bourgeois paradigms in our society (just as scary as the Dollhouse paradigms) are real people with real problems and are hard to hate. We hate the system, but can't hate the people
While I loved Buffy, I found your analysis of Dollhouse similar to my own impression of his other show Angel. I find that when the focus of the show moves away from feminine strength, Joss seems to forget the concept all together. This can be clearly seen because in Angel, he will just jump into a vampire nest without thought and of coarse prevail. Buffy would take it more cautiously, but she is theoretically stronger? It is like he thinks strong women are a novelty unconciously.
I haven't actually seen Dollhouse and by the sounds of things I'm not missing much. It seems to me that the 'powerful women' phase is over. We had Buffy, Charmed, Lara Croft, Xena, Sex and the City etc but these were all prior to Play Station, X-box, etc where action heroes are typically male, the exploits are made to appeal to boys and young men and depictions of women are made to appeal to male pubescence. I personally believe the gaming world changed tv & movie trends.
The disconnect between the marketing--which positions the viewer as a customer of the Dollhouse, and is incredibly objectifying--and the show itself--which has its problems but certainly isn't *that*--indicates a huge conflict between Fox and Whedon about what the show should look like.
I think Dollhouse pulls off different social critiques--Helo's white knight syndrome is thoroughly deconstructed in Ballard, for example.
In regards to sympathy for characters while disliking the institution, isn't that a real life dilemma that we often have to deal with? Pharmaceutical companies for example most the doctors are good people out to benefit the world but as an institution they do vile things, but when challenged they get to hide behind the people. isn't a TV show a good place to explore that dilemma?
I almost suspect that "Dollhouse" is not the series that Whedon set out to create. He may have intended to discuss whether or not the Dollhouse's methods consitituted rape, but the network probably wouldn't let him for fear of alienating potential viewers. If this theory is correct, it would mean that in addition to the completed series being a total cop-out, it ended up advocating the exact opposite of what was originally intended.
I don't know if you ever watched the final season of Dollhouse. The final few episodes, and especially the show finale, really presented Whedon's thesis in an interesting way and answered a lot of the questions that you raise in this video. I think you might even be pleased which how it all turned out.
@undercovernihilist I did watch it all the way through, and my analysis of the show has changed just slightly since I made this video (at the conclusion of the first season), but not by much. I wish the show had more of where it was going in the final episodes as opposed to weekly prostitution storylines.
@feministfrequency But Joss has said in interviews that he didn't want to do the weekly prostitution storylines but that's the direction that fox wanted the show to go because they thought it would appeal more to boys...so. There's that.
This is kind of odd because Joss Whedon's been known for his feminist views out on screen in shows like Buffy and Firefly (which I'm shocked only lasted one season and was never renewed except for the movie spinoff). I watched a couple of episodes of Dollhouse and it definitely wasn't his best for those reasons you pointed out.
I would love to see you do more videos on Joss Whedon shows. While I think Buffy is a real great show, I feel that some things were handled really badly, such as the Buffy/Spike rape scene and aftermath and Xander getting away with murder, when Anya does not. I would love to hear thoughts.
I don't think Joss Whedon is a misogynist but Dollhouse is not his best work. The concept wasn't even that interesting. I wonder where you can find full episodes of the Sarah Connor Chronicles since I wanted to try out that show.
Presumable the contracts that they sign include a clause specifying that they can use their bodies for nearly any purpose? If this is true it would be consent. There is no reason why they would need to consent to every individual use of their body over the time period. Consenting to donate ones body to medical science, for instance, is consenting to multiple unspecified uses of ones body (i.e. liver transplant, heart transplant, etc.).
@feministfrequency You mention nothing about negotiated consent in your video. I was responding to the reasoning you provided in your video. It is pretty bad form not to acknowledge that your were wrong, and instead to act as if you were making a different argument all along. If your issue was with negotiated consent, why did you not mention that in your video?
@PatrickWhite85 I am responding to *your* allegations about contracts. I'm not going to make a 2 hour long video about every little detail of the show in order to please you.
@feministfrequency My point was simply that you failed to acknowledge in your response that the reasoning you provide in your video is flawed. You explicitly say that it is rape because the residents of doll house are not able to consent to every individual assignment. You should admit that you are wrong about this. Also I was not asking you to make an additional video. My point was that if you thought it was rape because it was negotiated consent, why didn't you say that originally.
@PatrickWhite85 I think it is rape because they do not consent. I do not recognized a coerced contract as valid. I'm not clear on your point about "negotiated contracts" since again, I believe they were forced (in a variety of ways) to sign over their bodies.
I'm curious what your opinion of the Dollhouse was after the second season changed around the dynamics of your core argument? I'd suggest pulling this video and replace it with an analysis of the full spectrum of what the show attempted to deal with. My opinion of the Dollhouse changed, for the better, immensely during the second season. Secondly, Fox specifically claimed the Dollhouse's renewal was due to the Firefly backlash they incurred in the past.
I agree completely. Dollhouse was such a disappointment largely because Whedon has written such interesting and strong female characters before. It was crushing to see him turn into essentially a whore monger.
I'd have loved to see them bring back Firefly, if they're going Whedon. I loved that show. But I must admit that I was thoroughly crushed when I learned that TSCC wasn't coming back. That was really well done and it was more believable, character wise. As a guild actor, I really love to see truly thought out character development. How would that personality react/what would they take from it, rather than -what do we want them to do in this situation.- TSCC, you will be missed. *tear*
Assuming they willingly gave up their free will, it wouldn't be rape because by giving up their free will they automatically consent to whatever they're made to do.
@feministfrequency But from your description, it seems like they know they're giving up their free will and could be used to do anything. If they're made to rob someone after giving up free will; they're a thief, if the kill someone; they're a murderer, and so on and so on. Free Will is not something someone should give up without thinking about the consequences of doing so.
@CommanderLorenz Imagine they had a gun to their heads and said do this or else, then would you call that consent? The show clearly laid out that many of the actives were coerced (especially Caroline) into signing a contract.
@feministfrequencey I agree with all the arguements you made in the video; however, there is also something to be said about the fact that it is a whedon show and that the network kept it on almost out of fear of the backlash it got with Firefly.
never watched dollhouse so i can't really say anything there, but T:SCC was good, untill season two and then it rapidly got bleh for me atleast. don't get me wrong i liked summers character. but sarah herself seemed... the crazy... and semi fail. the son ewas an idiot. and my biggest grip they refused to use anything that actually had a hope of damaging a terminator. but i digress, to me the plot declined second season. i was fairly disappointed.
@LurkingGoblin I actually really enjoyed the whole series and I felt like the character development was really strong. But i suppose I already stated that in the video.
@feministfrequency *shrugs* to each their own i suppose. though if you want strong female character i HIGHLY recommend Babylon 5(for SF), and Buffy/Angel(for fantasy), and NCIS(Ziva for the goddess damned win!)
those shows rarely if every have the bad female tropes. though only NCIS is still running the others can be found on the net/DVDs and are all well worth it.
@LurkingGoblin I watched about 5 episodes of Babylon 5 and just couldn't get into it, I'm ALL about Buffy for sure but I haven't seen NCIS, I'll check it out. Thanks for the suggestion.
@feministfrequency your welcome =) and ya the first season of B5 is pretty much entirely to set up the awesomeness of season 2-4 and then five was unexpected so they just closed up loose ends. i'm a B5 fanatic and even i dislike the first season XD, so ya if you can stand the first season it gets really good and the production values go up as well. the writing is second only to Higurashi.
The only unfortunate thing is that they did not use the opportunity laid before them by their own writing, which could have been because the writers, also products of a rape culture, did not think of it, or could have been because the show is on FOX and this allowed less creative freedom. I have no idea, but I will say that though the show has problems, i think as a science fiction show it thought outside the box and was quite entertaining.
Often there is the sensationalized idea of rape being an assault by a man with a weapon in a dark alley that we foolish women couldn't stay out of. However, in the real world, rape is everywhere. Rape situations and excuses for rape are created by people we know, talk to, and often think we can trust. I find the moral ambiguity of the runners of the dollhouse to be a perfect example of the rape culture we live in.
While I certainly agree that rape occurs a lot in the show, and that they missed a huge opportunity to have a broader discussion about rape, (though Sierra did have a pretty kickass retribution on her own, more obvious rapist in a season two episode) I don't agree that they shouldn't have made the people who worked at the dollhouse unsympathetic, and here is why: We live in a rape culture.
While I certainly agree that the dolls in the house are being raped, and I also agree that it is detrimental to the show that they did not have a better and broader discussion about rape (though there was the episode in season two where Sierra dealt with her rapist in a pretty hardcore manner that was awesome) I disagree completely that we should not find the people who run the dollhouse sympathetic if we want to see the rape situation as being bad. My reason is this: Cont. in next post.
@spittingair I definitely agree with your basic idea, but I think that with this kind of show, it's important to have the _fact_ of rape more highlighted. Most viewers don't think in the terms of rape culture, and I'm not at all sure the way the show was made would make anyone more aware of the concept.
How much do you know about Joss Whedon? He's done more to write strong, competent female characters than anyone else. He tackled a lot of complex issues in Dollhouse; issues I think you're oversimplifying in this video by assuming that our sympathy is supposed to be with the Dollhouse.
I loved it, and I wish they'd continued, as I know Joss would have probed deeper into all the ethical issues that a business like that would represent. He just wasn't given the time.
@Thiefree I am familiar with Whedon's work and know he is held to a different level of scrutiny since he has claimed to be a feminist... when being asked about Dollhouse he claimed that he didn't make a "feminist show" which some how makes it okay.
@feministfrequency My interpretation of that would be that it wasn't his predefined motive, as it was with Buffy; perhaps he even felt that his intentions were compromised in some way by FOX. Difficult to say, without further context.
Anyway, I'm enjoying your videos and have subscribed; this sort of issue interests me and I'd like to hear what else you've got to say on things. :)
Joss Whedon is a brilliant man, and he has written brilliant female characters. But he's not perfect. I'm a huge fan but Whedon is not the Perfect Feminist. I don't think anyone is.
while i understand this was made at the end of the first season, i think the whole point of dollhouse was to bring the that grey area into the light us really think about why these things are wrong.
but i do agree that this was not the best joss whedon show
did you ever watch firefly? because that is my favorite joss whedon show. the only thing that makes buffy better was that buffy wasn't cancelled partway through the first season
i love the the female characters in firefly and serenity
Dollhouse on the other hand could remain low cost. Subsequently the problems you mentioned probably left more than enough other viewers similarly conflicted which is why they got canceled. So...mediocre work wasn't supported just because in this particular instance.
While I can believe there are sexist reasons for why Sarah Connor wasn't renewed, ultimately with the direction that the movies went, the post-production budget would have had to scale exponentially year on year which would be a major problem if the show wasn't getting viewership numbers close to LOST or Heroes.
i love Joss and Eliza but Dollhouse was crap. it lasted another season because of the 'tits and ass rule' which there was plenty of- for a price. I'm surprised Joss did DH, especially after Buffy. It was like 10 steps backwards. A woman running this 'brothel' + inflicting damage on everyone? "hey guys, you know how you like to blow shit up + destroy mostly everything you touch? well, us girls are jumping on that bandwagon too!"
You said that the dollhouse is supposed to be the "bad guy," and yet has identifiable characters? It is brilliant at how it shows how screwed up we are.
Actually the morality aspect was adressed a LOT.... but mostly not until season two. Mostly by Paul, I think. And one of the characters in Epitah One points out that it was essentially a brothel.
But at the end, the message was that no matter who was imprinted, for whatever use, it wasn't right. Echo even says "I have 38 brains, not one of them thinks you can sign a contract to be a slave. Especially now that we have black president."
I too hated the Doll House. It was a beautiful place and I wish I could live there with the blend of nature and tech, AWESOME. However It wasn't misogynistic. That seems to be your favored idea to push. But the guys were also being loaned out as sex fantasies. But I too found it... gross is the only word I found to fit. The whole ideas about enslavement and being force against my will to do something just makes my skin crawl. I also liked Terminator but the writer seemed to get lost in the plot.
People want to see imperfect, morally gray characters. That's why Dollhouse, Dexter, Nurse Jackie, The Sopranos and the like are all succeeding. Its also why the show you listed and others, like Firefly, which strive to show human beings at their best, fail. It is not the artists who are sick, or not only them. The reigning philosophy is that humans are sick, miserable, depraved and weak. Art that supports this philosophy wins, art that runs counter to it fails. Its sad really.
I don't understand that how you can have a problem with Dollhouse just because the characters are sympathetic. I don't believe the show has to be illustrated in black and white terms in order to understand the evil that the Dollhouse creates. Dollhouse was there to endorse people's fantasies, but there was a lot more to it then that.
The reason I found Terminator so boring was because of the "big, macho fest about gore and violence and blowing things up." I'm squeamish about REAL gory stuff, so it isn't because I'm desensitized toward that stuff.
Also, I did NOT like Sarah Connor in the original Terminator. I realize that most of us, men and women alike, would be helpless in her general situation. But what SHOULD Reese have said when she asked him, "What are the women like in your time?" if not, "They're good fighters"?
I've been a fan of the Terminator franchise since THE TERMINATOR was first premiered on cable when I was ten years old. I really got into the TSCC as well, and I, like many fans, was very disappointed when it was cancelled. I tried to watch DOLLHOUSE, but after watching episodes 2 & 3 I just didn't get it at all, and unfortunately got lost w/ what the hell was going on. I think the last episode I saw was when all the "Dolls" woke up from their trance state, and after that I never saw it again...
heey you should post a review on season 2 of dollhouse and explain how its evolved. i think it got even better then terminator (: nice video though, i was pissed when terminator was cancelled too..till i found out about dollhouse
I'm not sure whats going on. Am I supposed to watch you talk or the pictures? or your earrings? I'm really not sure what to be doing. I'm not heckling, well I kinda was but I do enjoy your youtube clips.
Anyways being a guy into sci-fi I did like both series and would love for the SCC to come back but like Friefly its sadly killed before its time.
Also, we can't forget that FOX is a company and this is business for them, if it's not bringging money it goes to the trash, no matter how good it is. Which is sad, but if i put myself in FOX's shoes i kinda understand them.
......But I'm glad it got cancelled , because it tightened up the show and gave us a few season's worth of concept in one (they should stop doing 22 episode seasons, they fail badly...), and the last several episodes have been excellent.
I'm still gutted that Terminator was scraped for this show to continue (what a fucktastical waste! )
But my faith (no pun's intended lol) is now restored in Whedon , I'm looking forward to what he does next...
Well, I've really been enjoying Dollhouse season two. I've even called this season of it 'pure perfection'. If you haven't caught up with Dollhouse, do yourself a favor and get up to date with it. The show is so amazing now. IMO, the show has been great ever since episode six of season one. The first five episodes weren't that great, because of some things FOX pulled at the last second. But, yeah, I'm very sorry for SCC fans, because I know what it feels like to have a favorite show 'offed'
@troyfin2 I have been watching the second season and I don't like the show any better but I am interested in how it is being wrapped up. Maybe I'll do another video about season 2.
I have to totally agree with troyfin2, with season 2 we see what Whedon wanted to do with the show from the start ... Fox raped this show and ruined the first season , twisting it enough to push it out of context , in to "brain washed whore of the week " territory , which is so tragic .....
I actually really like your videos (although I violently disagree with about everything you said on this particular video XD)
But I thought I should let you know you're pronouncing Joss Whedon's name incorrectly. It's said "Joss Weedon"
I would argue that Dollhouse's appeal is the 'greyness' you mentioned. Every character is both sympathetic and repulsive (a bit like HBO's OZ) and this was true for both male and female characters.
Plus, Dollhouse infinitely improved in the second season
@SeeThinkFall Thanks, I'm glad you are enjoying my videos (even if you don't agree) and also, thanks about the pronunciation, I always get his name wrong for some reason.
I have never seen either show. While I've heard of the Sarah Connor Chronicles (haven't watched it, because I don't have time to add another show to my schedule and I have too many as it is), I've never even heard of Dollhouse. Personally, I don't think it's wrong to portray rape or sex slaves in television as long as it's portrayed as evil. If the show is portraying these elements as evil, I don't think it's sexist. If they're saying it's okay, then it's sexist. If I'm wrong, let me know.
I never saw Dollhouse but I can well believe what you say is true. T:SCC was AMAZING! I was mortified when it was cancelled. It also had the female T1000 and her relationship with her (creepily) "adopted" daughter. I think it says a lot that this is one of the very few shows I would actually talk to my Mum about on the phone! She loved it too. Right. I'm gonna go and put my inane commentary on your Bechdel test video. Keep up the good work!
(continued) The reason we need to feel for the people working for the dollhouse is because we need to be able to realize that these people are not the actual dollhouse, the people who work there do not agree with it. The first season was very strongly focussed on Echo, especially her engagements. In season two, we see this idea going away, and the show changes into something with a great ensemble cast about the actual Dollhouse. And it is very close in quality to much of Whedon's other work.
I understand what you mean, and I respect your opinion, but I disagree. I actually enjoyed Sarah Conner, and agree with all of your reasons and more. However, I think that Dollhouse is also a great show. Dollhouse is about the individual in relation to the corporation. The law in relation to morality. The distinction between what you want, and what you need. The entire first season was primarily background for what Whedon already had planned for the following four seasons.
I can see what you mean, and I respect your opinion as your opinion, but I disagree with it.
First, I would like to say that I did enjoy Sarah Conner. And agree with what you said about that show. However, I do not really agree with what you said about Dollhouse. Dollhouse is really about people in relation to corporations, and law in relation to morality And, possibly most importantly, the distinction between what you want and what you need.
Hey, aren't the men on Dollhouse treated as objectively as the women? Other than that I can respectively differ. I'm sorry your show was canceled though.
@Nekorin Yes, there are male active on the show but I think its safe to say that most of the more sexual engagements (ie prostitution) are with the female actives. Additionally, the vast majority of sex workers in the real world are women, and this show is (in its own twisted way) reflecting that reality.
@feministfrequency Well, my memory may be flawed, but I think the show had the practice of showing the female actives coming back from prostitution but not during it (unless it was of the complicated variety) but it showed the male active actually doing it with DeWitt... Even if I'm right, not sure what that means.
I think on one level that was intentional , as a realistic reflection of society etc , but the male actives are whores too...
Basically , every time one of the actives go on an engagement (male or female) they are mind raped . **SPOILER ALERT!!!**
In the end ,the technology lead's to the fate , and end ,of the entire human race.
The whole "Rossum" corporation idea was brilliant , it's from a play by Karel Čapek from the 1920's , I loved the way Whedon brought it in to the 21st century.
Dollhouse could have been excellent if they'd handled it properly. It seemed like they were afraid to go anywhere near any of the issues you mention, which were the only interesting thing about it really. Sometimes they would flirt with more serious territory, but they seemed to loose heart, as if afraid to alienate the audience by making them think too much about what was going on. I stuck with it, even defended it on some message board somewhere. Regretting it now though. Shame!
@IM863 Ya, I feel like it could have been interesting if it was less focused on the engagements and more on the technology and resistance to it. I've really disliked most of Season 2 but I feel like if the rest of the show was more like "Stop Loss" and "The Attic" it could have been far more compelling.
The first handful of episodes of season 1 were all about creepy, horrible men chasing after women - I saw the female empowerment angle, but something really bothered me about it. It was the last few episodes of season 1 that got me hooked, actually. I think season 2 is bringing up a lot of great questions and I'd love to hear your take.
I felt much the same as you, but I suspect that it's the complexity of how to read the story that is it's strength - or at least I hope that's how it pans out.
Fox has a history of appealing to the lowest common demoninator and cutting anything that does not turn an immediate and substantial profit. I am not surprised that they made the decisions that they did, only further disgusted by them. Here is hoping that some networks with the patience and forsight to let series develop for long term profitability rather than quick returns come out on top.
Also, the presence of Summer Glau makes any work better. :)
omg.... it's complete fantasy... dollhouse is a fantasy... it has some really interesting concepts and ideas... the show raises heaps of politcal and moral issues and views... but that's what it's made to do... sorry some people don't like to have to think about what they're watching...
most of human society is more fucked up than that show any way... if you got a problem with shit like that... why bother bagging a TV show, why not go out and do something where is matters?
I think the fact that we can sympathise with the characters that work for the Dollhouse is good. I think it helps us realize that because people make bad choices, that doesn't mean their bad people. The characters have progressed very interestingly in Season Two, and while I had my doubts about the show in Season One, I'm now loving it, and sad its not coming back for a Third Season. I think dollhouse had potential in season one, and proved itself in season two. But I understand your views :)
I haven't seen Dollhouse, but from what I hear, its hard to think that Joss considers himself a feminist. Off topic but I noticed your inclusion of the Dexter logo, and I wonder what your opinion on it is. I am a huge feminist and a huge fan of the show. Granted, it has flaws (For example, ALL of season two), but I was just curious if you added Dexter in there because you have seen it and think its misogynistic, or because it was only an example of the violence you were talking about.
You may not like Dollhouse, and I accept that, but the reason it was renewed was because Whedon fought for it, what did Friedman do TSCC, absolutely nothing, and after it was cancelled Friedman issued a statement saying we did the best we could now move on, after firefly was canned Whedon fought tooth and nail for Serenity, which is what he did for dollhouse, and while you may like TSCC better its clear Friedman wasn't nearly as passionate, and that's reason alone to prefer Dollhouse
It's funny when you think about it: Connor got "terminated" and fans begged for it to come back, knowing that there was (and still are) plenty of scenarios for a third season.
Fox keeps Dollhouse...and now they're axing it. Pojnt being: they should have kept Sarah around, but thank god for Warner Brothers. There still might be a third season yet (straight to DVD).
sorry guys but i have to disagree. dollhouse may be alittle shakey on the subject on whether or not this is rape but common its a tv show. i think the show is really good but you guys have a right to your own opinion. mabey its just because i am a drama junkie and this show has alot of it lol!!
I watched Dollhouse because it was Whedon. I stopped caring about 4 episodes into the first season. Dollhouse survived because of the Whedon cult and probably Whedon cashed in some favors for it to survive.
I loved the Sarah Connor Chronicles. My big problem with it was the actor playing John Connor. He seemed so weak and boring. I thought with the Terminator 4 movie would help the series survive.
They have begun to explain the rape issue though in this second season with sierra, when that one crazy guy bought her from them. if they would give it more time im sure joss could create another master piece like buffy again i mean hell the first season of buffy was just like dollhouse, by that i mean every first season starts off with introducing characters and as the show goes on introduces more about their pasts.
I think Dollhouse is structurally wrong at it's very premise (I think the same thing about firefly) and if the structure is wrong, I don't believe the show can be salvaged. With Buffy, I think it was founded on an empowering premise with lots of room to grow. I thought it was interesting that they were addressing the issue of rape in the episode you are referring to but as that show unfolded I was continually horrified... (& unfortunately I don't have enough room to write all the reasons why)
Well I remember things like dark angel and how fox canceled that show and it rocked i don't think anyone could disagree and be serious about it without kidding themselves, and fox canceled it made by the same person who created T:SCC. but i believe dollhouse can be salvaged. Some see it as rape some, well I'm feeling kinda of raped of a great show so now what?
There are several shows that are structurally wrong and they go on for years and years, like Dexter its about a fracking serial killer is that structurally right, and what season is it in now 3, 4, so while Dollhouse maybe structurally right that doesn't mean it can't be salvaged
But now we're delving into the opinion territory, whereas what you think is good I may not, and what I think is good you may not, so I guess all that's left is to agree to disagree
But when they sign in the contract to the Dollhouse they basically consent to anything Dollhouse does to them with the exception of bodily/physical harm to them. So basically i am pretty sure that the actives in Dollhouse sign off and agree to the sex, usage, etc... anything else Dollhouse uses them for.
So if you have a gun to your head and someone says sign your life into a world of prostitution, chances are you are going to do it. Coercion does not equal consent. The show has alluded to the fact that the actives have shady histories which have put them in a position to which they don't actually have a "choice." Additionally, I don't recall anything about "exception of bodily/physical harm" because Echo gets the hell beat out of her on multiple occasions.
No one put a gun to their heads. They should have though twice about signing their bodies over to a organization/company. Instead they felt desperate and probably got into worse trouble for trying to take an easy way out of their problems but i see your point but i don;t think it was coercion. Remember Echo as well as 2 other female actives volunteered due to certain problems they had. No one forced them to join. But whatever, just my point of view and you are entitled to your opinion as well.
November aka Madeline wasn't coerced she volunteered, so while you have a point on some of the dolls, it's probably only very few that are coerced, in the L.A. Dollhouse at least
From what I remember November was in a horrible personal/financial situation (I think she even lost her child??) and that will all lead her to believe she has no other option then enter the dollhouse.
I love Joss, mainly for Firefly and Serenity, but I seriously hate Dollhouse. I tried so hard to analyze every little thing in the show to find something good that I liked, but I just couldn't do it.
With that being said, I love TSCC. I'm not the biggest fan of the movies, but the show was so much deeper than any of the films. The cast was amazing, and over time you really began to care about the characters. I could go on, but point is, I am incredibly disappointed... Save TSCC people.
Thank you for posting this. I agree 100%. I like Joss Whedon as much as the next Browncoat, but Dollhouse was a huge strike. I understand that he had good intentions with DH, but... yeah. Way too morally ambiguous for my taste. And not too great acting either. Terminator was the smartest television show I'd ever seen. Probably why it was axed. :/
I really do prefer shows like Firefly and Terminator because not everything gets answered every episode. It's not like Dollhouse, (a "monster of the week" show), that only appeals to people who are easily hooked on reality TV.
It's kind of like how Chris Carter came close to pretty much singlehandedly destroying the X-files by insisting on a "monster of the week" movie instead of continuing the "mythology" like everyone was waiting for.
Unfortunately for his loyal viewership, Chris Carter was admittedly just making up the myth arc as he went. As a result, he started writing himself into a coner, and could not really escape it, just putting MotW plots up to fill time.
Alpha from Dollhouse was already damaged before he was wiped. Saying that he was damaged by the Dollhouse is inaccurate because other people, Whiskey, did not react in a similar fashion.
The problem with Terminator was there was no specific goal. Stay alive? Stop Skynet? If this was to be a lead into the 3rd movie, why are they witnessing so many Terminators being sent back in time? Skynet might as well just start the war early.
I think Joss wants to create that moral dilemma for the viewers of "this is wrong, but I like these people." A lot more interesting and thought provoking than "We good, they bad, kill kill kill."
You don't like crazy serial killers but you're watching a show called terminator? And wtf was with John being a cry baby?
I watched Terminator but didn't like it as much as Dollhouse. Sarah is a wimp, they kept killing all the characters off, some of the eps were dull and went nowhere, etc.
Terminator is all recycled ideas, it's time for something new... like Dollhouse.
In a perfect world they'd both still be on, but FOX doesn't know good TV or how to handle it when they have it (Firefly, futurama, etc.). Fox, not the shows, is to blame for most of their failures.
I watched the whole first season of dollhouse and until the finally it wasn't worth it at all. I like how you are left to discuss the morality on your own.
I agree that terminator sarah conner chronicles shouldn't have been cancelled , the season finale was so awsome and so many question unanswered.
But dollhouse is also pretty good , your just overthinking it. I watched buffy and dollhouse , and i think dollhouse is alot better as buffy but thats just me
I agree. Joss Weadon hasn't made anything good since Buffy the Vampire Slayer. This is, of course, just my opinion. I am also pissed about them keeping Dollhouse but getting rid of Terminator. Dollhouse is crap.
Coerced consent under threats of fear and violence is not consent and they made it clear that the dollhouse found people that they could manipulate into signing there lives away.
I think it's important to look critically at our media since we engage with it everyday... I'm definitely going to "over analyze" when we watch women are being treated like sex slaves to rich and powerful men every week.
@rep5281 It is rape. If Eliza Dushku goes on a date with a psycho who has vigorous sex with her and then has her memories of it wiped--then yeah, that is a high-tech-roofie version of rape. No over-analyzing necessary.
I agree with everything you say in this video , I was totally gutted when they axed SCC for Dollhouse , and as a big Joss Whedon fan I thought Dollhouse was pathetically lame, Eliza really over acted in every episode and the whole thing just died of death by the third show in to the season ....
I could see it all going to shit when fox did that "Grind-house" promo ad , it was deeply misogynistic , and very lame.
what do you think after seeing the second season?
i think what whedon wanted the show to be, was rejected by the channel it was airing on, because it was to depressing and dark, so he had to make changes.
so maybe the original concept would have been all you would wish for.
RoySchl 3 months ago in playlist Videos from feministfrequency
I really loved SCC. I really hated Dollhouse. It was so damn awful. I'm very much inclined to blame Eliza Dushku for Dollhouse since she had a deep investment in it and helped come up with the concept. I think it was supposed to be a vehicle to show off her acting talents. *cough* I loved SCC, but I did feel that it struggled to keep plot threads together sometimes. I wish we got another season because I will miss those characters so much.
Darien0Shields 3 months ago
Buffy and Firefly were better than Dollhouse, that's for sure.
xLiLxxBitx 4 months ago 3
Totally agree with you on the Sarah Conner Chronicles. When you look at the Terminator films, the worst ones were the most recent ones. The ones without Sarah Connor. This was a character who was strong and a woman and they didn't try to glam her with some form hugging pvc suit. The series also, I mean I really wanted to know what was gonna happen at the end. Sarah Connor on her own and John Connor in a future he didn't help forge. More gripping than Dollhouse I have to say.
MarkdeCarabas 4 months ago 3
since you're a fan of Whedon's work, what did you think of Firefly?
DeadJesusRodeo69 4 months ago
Joss Whedon did write a series that was "critical and analytical, and still has social commentary, while still being entertaining and fun" It was called Firefly, and it only ran for 13 episodes, for a number of reasons. So, fox no longer actually wants tv shows of value from Joss, just fun one shot shows. However, I think that if Dollhouse had been permitted to run another season Joss would have delved deeper into the gray area of Dollhouse and really expanded upon it. Also, love for November <3
MissLissaLindsey 5 months ago
The fact that Joss Whedon got you talking about the rape issue was what he wanted, because Dollhouse is a show about how corporations will always try to force their opinions about what we--as a consumer society--want, down our throats. To the point where we have no free will and that the true evil is when good people stand by and do nothing. Hence you have these characters who believe they are doing good works when in fact they're not. I defer you to Firefly and Serenity for further study.
giggilymesh 5 months ago 4
I also liked that not ALL the female "dolls" were of the standard anorexic proportions. "November" (Miracle Laurie) was a doll who figured into the story quite regularly, and she has a full, healthy figure. Not only that, but she got to be seen as beautiful and sexy, and even seduces one of the main characters (in "doll" mode, but still...). I was so amazed at this! A normal, full-figured woman is usually a background character or the "fat friend" of the female lead, but this girl just got to b
GeishaShattori 6 months ago 7
While I agree that there were elements of sexism and objectification in "Dollhouse", it did have its moments. I loved Olivia Williams' character in that she wasn't made to be like a stereotypical brothel "madame", she was a beautiful, strong, intelligent businesswoman. Sure she would come off as ruthless sometimes, but you could see she felt a growing sense of guilt in the whole Dollhouse program and what it did to people.
GeishaShattori 6 months ago
Even though I've gained the impression the show does a decent job pointing to and critcizing the disturbing level of objectification of women and human beings in general through the extreme example of Dollhouse, I like and agree with some of the points you've made. Humanizing the Dollhouse staff adds to a realistic portrayal of people responsible for social ills, but, as contradictory as that sounds, I'm always sickened when a piece of fiction tries to make us sympathetic towards such figures.
TheDarkSideOfLight08 7 months ago
While I didn't like Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles as much as you did, but I liked the characters and thought it had a lot of potential. It seemed like it ended just as it was finally getting good. I think it's problem was it didn't know where it was going for a long time. It seemed story threads were brought up and then abandoned. But like I said, in the last half season before they were canned it seemed like they were getting there act together.
Disthron 7 months ago
I disagree on Dollhouse in that:
1) It showed woman as equals to men
2) For people who already assume woman are equal to men, did nothing to dissuade them of that.
However, I agree in that:
3) For misogynist males who think of women as playthings, it perpetuated that fantasy.
4) For feminists looking out for #3, it sets off warning bells.
Unfortunately, I think #4 prevented a lot of people from appreciating the show, which was much better than normally given credit.
markmatson 8 months ago 3
I liked both shows and both shows had exactly two seasons. Obviously, a year later I get to write in hindsight of season two, but I always thought it had exactly the nuances and moral dilemmas that many claimed it lacked. Joss has a habit of building stories slowly, which gets him into trouble.
markmatson 8 months ago
Terrible thing about TSCC being canned, what with the direction it was headed and practically no objectification or over-simplification of the characters, quite the contrary.
But most people are looking for a quick junk food, not a example of fine cuisine that requires time to be appreciated.. No quite accusing Dollhouse of such because I did not see past the first episode for reasons I cannot remember, but still...
cormano64 8 months ago
Dollhouse was simply one of the most awful tv series I have ever laid eyes on. I stopped watching after Season 1 since I couldn't get into it. And I felt like you about the Sarah Connor Chronicles, actually I sometimes think about the show and what would have become of it had it been renewed.
anadea 8 months ago
Actually, I always figured Sarah Conner was a pretty decent female character in the Terminator franchise as a whole, but I need to watch this show on the strength of yours, and other folks I know, recommendation.
PompamooseMagique 9 months ago
I don't see how Bones is a good example of male killers. Booth struggles with killing a lot, and there are more subtle themes about how he struggles with the way men are supposed to be able to kill without feeling and how Booth has kind of suppressed his feelings, and yet when people bring up the people he's killed, he's very sensitive about it.
LanceDirk 9 months ago 8
@LanceDirk I'm not referring to Booth at all, more so the killer of the week.
feministfrequency 9 months ago 3
I fairly certain that doll house would be a hundred times better if fox weren't part of the equation. Fox is just a very stupid network that was constantly fucking with doll house from the beginning. I would like to see sarah chronicles which probably didn't last because it was good and fox hates good shows.
jiggerblayne 9 months ago
I thought that the idea of creating a system--an institution--that was abhorrent to most people, yet contained characters with which we could laugh, cry and feel was a clever one. It mirrors some other societal institutions we live through or in today. In the same vein, people who perpetuate the dominant, patriarchal, bourgeois paradigms in our society (just as scary as the Dollhouse paradigms) are real people with real problems and are hard to hate. We hate the system, but can't hate the people
bolinj8809 10 months ago
While I loved Buffy, I found your analysis of Dollhouse similar to my own impression of his other show Angel. I find that when the focus of the show moves away from feminine strength, Joss seems to forget the concept all together. This can be clearly seen because in Angel, he will just jump into a vampire nest without thought and of coarse prevail. Buffy would take it more cautiously, but she is theoretically stronger? It is like he thinks strong women are a novelty unconciously.
rachelpoulos 10 months ago
I haven't actually seen Dollhouse and by the sounds of things I'm not missing much. It seems to me that the 'powerful women' phase is over. We had Buffy, Charmed, Lara Croft, Xena, Sex and the City etc but these were all prior to Play Station, X-box, etc where action heroes are typically male, the exploits are made to appeal to boys and young men and depictions of women are made to appeal to male pubescence. I personally believe the gaming world changed tv & movie trends.
BastetAsshur 10 months ago
The disconnect between the marketing--which positions the viewer as a customer of the Dollhouse, and is incredibly objectifying--and the show itself--which has its problems but certainly isn't *that*--indicates a huge conflict between Fox and Whedon about what the show should look like.
I think Dollhouse pulls off different social critiques--Helo's white knight syndrome is thoroughly deconstructed in Ballard, for example.
hazelsteacup 11 months ago
I would love to see your thoughts on Joss's other shows. I love Firefly but it does have some problems
24hourteaparty 1 year ago
In regards to sympathy for characters while disliking the institution, isn't that a real life dilemma that we often have to deal with? Pharmaceutical companies for example most the doctors are good people out to benefit the world but as an institution they do vile things, but when challenged they get to hide behind the people. isn't a TV show a good place to explore that dilemma?
Christina Moorshead
Christinamoorshead1 1 year ago 3
terminators aren't robots they're cybernetic-organisms.
Witchielake 1 year ago
I almost suspect that "Dollhouse" is not the series that Whedon set out to create. He may have intended to discuss whether or not the Dollhouse's methods consitituted rape, but the network probably wouldn't let him for fear of alienating potential viewers. If this theory is correct, it would mean that in addition to the completed series being a total cop-out, it ended up advocating the exact opposite of what was originally intended.
Scifimaster92 1 year ago
I don't know if you ever watched the final season of Dollhouse. The final few episodes, and especially the show finale, really presented Whedon's thesis in an interesting way and answered a lot of the questions that you raise in this video. I think you might even be pleased which how it all turned out.
undercovernihilist 1 year ago 15
@undercovernihilist I did watch it all the way through, and my analysis of the show has changed just slightly since I made this video (at the conclusion of the first season), but not by much. I wish the show had more of where it was going in the final episodes as opposed to weekly prostitution storylines.
feministfrequency 1 year ago 8
@feministfrequency But Joss has said in interviews that he didn't want to do the weekly prostitution storylines but that's the direction that fox wanted the show to go because they thought it would appeal more to boys...so. There's that.
orangepony52 10 months ago 2
This is kind of odd because Joss Whedon's been known for his feminist views out on screen in shows like Buffy and Firefly (which I'm shocked only lasted one season and was never renewed except for the movie spinoff). I watched a couple of episodes of Dollhouse and it definitely wasn't his best for those reasons you pointed out.
FantasmaLuna 1 year ago
I think the point is that even evil can be sympathetic. That evil can be complicated. And how people get pulled into it. Even decent people.
mkatseal 1 year ago 3
OMFG, SCC was a BAD show! It go NO ratings. It was bad, dude. WAKE UP! Do ur research, like Thiefree said.
Stop trying to hide bullshit with facts.
Live2bEvil 1 year ago
I would love to see you do more videos on Joss Whedon shows. While I think Buffy is a real great show, I feel that some things were handled really badly, such as the Buffy/Spike rape scene and aftermath and Xander getting away with murder, when Anya does not. I would love to hear thoughts.
24hourteaparty 1 year ago
I don't think Joss Whedon is a misogynist but Dollhouse is not his best work. The concept wasn't even that interesting. I wonder where you can find full episodes of the Sarah Connor Chronicles since I wanted to try out that show.
coralin378 1 year ago
Presumable the contracts that they sign include a clause specifying that they can use their bodies for nearly any purpose? If this is true it would be consent. There is no reason why they would need to consent to every individual use of their body over the time period. Consenting to donate ones body to medical science, for instance, is consenting to multiple unspecified uses of ones body (i.e. liver transplant, heart transplant, etc.).
PatrickWhite85 1 year ago
@PatrickWhite85 coerced consent is not consent
feministfrequency 1 year ago 4
@feministfrequency You mention nothing about negotiated consent in your video. I was responding to the reasoning you provided in your video. It is pretty bad form not to acknowledge that your were wrong, and instead to act as if you were making a different argument all along. If your issue was with negotiated consent, why did you not mention that in your video?
PatrickWhite85 1 year ago
@PatrickWhite85 I am responding to *your* allegations about contracts. I'm not going to make a 2 hour long video about every little detail of the show in order to please you.
feministfrequency 1 year ago 3
@feministfrequency My point was simply that you failed to acknowledge in your response that the reasoning you provide in your video is flawed. You explicitly say that it is rape because the residents of doll house are not able to consent to every individual assignment. You should admit that you are wrong about this. Also I was not asking you to make an additional video. My point was that if you thought it was rape because it was negotiated consent, why didn't you say that originally.
PatrickWhite85 1 year ago
@PatrickWhite85 I think it is rape because they do not consent. I do not recognized a coerced contract as valid. I'm not clear on your point about "negotiated contracts" since again, I believe they were forced (in a variety of ways) to sign over their bodies.
feministfrequency 1 year ago 5
@feministfrequency actually, plenty of characters comment on how awful it is. they can't leave because of how big the corporation is
AV32productions 8 months ago
I'm curious what your opinion of the Dollhouse was after the second season changed around the dynamics of your core argument? I'd suggest pulling this video and replace it with an analysis of the full spectrum of what the show attempted to deal with. My opinion of the Dollhouse changed, for the better, immensely during the second season. Secondly, Fox specifically claimed the Dollhouse's renewal was due to the Firefly backlash they incurred in the past.
Anarchosyn 1 year ago
I agree completely. Dollhouse was such a disappointment largely because Whedon has written such interesting and strong female characters before. It was crushing to see him turn into essentially a whore monger.
idontownthis1 1 year ago
I really likes Dollhouse and was happy to get a second season, but if you think Sarah Conor Chronicles is worth watching I'll rent it.
TheFriendlyMoosh 1 year ago
And then, once Echo's character started to evolve as a distinct and self-directed strong individual, they DID cancel Dollhouse.
mezzodivaknitaholic 1 year ago
I'd have loved to see them bring back Firefly, if they're going Whedon. I loved that show. But I must admit that I was thoroughly crushed when I learned that TSCC wasn't coming back. That was really well done and it was more believable, character wise. As a guild actor, I really love to see truly thought out character development. How would that personality react/what would they take from it, rather than -what do we want them to do in this situation.- TSCC, you will be missed. *tear*
uberpinguin 1 year ago
Assuming they willingly gave up their free will, it wouldn't be rape because by giving up their free will they automatically consent to whatever they're made to do.
Horrible to make them do these things? Yes.
Rape? No.
CommanderLorenz 1 year ago
@CommanderLorenz being coerced to consent is not real consent.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency But from your description, it seems like they know they're giving up their free will and could be used to do anything. If they're made to rob someone after giving up free will; they're a thief, if the kill someone; they're a murderer, and so on and so on. Free Will is not something someone should give up without thinking about the consequences of doing so.
CommanderLorenz 1 year ago
@CommanderLorenz Imagine they had a gun to their heads and said do this or else, then would you call that consent? The show clearly laid out that many of the actives were coerced (especially Caroline) into signing a contract.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency Fair enough, I had never seen the show. In the cases of people who were definitely forced in to signing the contract, it would be.
CommanderLorenz 1 year ago 3
@feministfrequencey I agree with all the arguements you made in the video; however, there is also something to be said about the fact that it is a whedon show and that the network kept it on almost out of fear of the backlash it got with Firefly.
PaulIn25SecondsADay 1 year ago
never watched dollhouse so i can't really say anything there, but T:SCC was good, untill season two and then it rapidly got bleh for me atleast. don't get me wrong i liked summers character. but sarah herself seemed... the crazy... and semi fail. the son ewas an idiot. and my biggest grip they refused to use anything that actually had a hope of damaging a terminator. but i digress, to me the plot declined second season. i was fairly disappointed.
LurkingGoblin 1 year ago
@LurkingGoblin I actually really enjoyed the whole series and I felt like the character development was really strong. But i suppose I already stated that in the video.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency *shrugs* to each their own i suppose. though if you want strong female character i HIGHLY recommend Babylon 5(for SF), and Buffy/Angel(for fantasy), and NCIS(Ziva for the goddess damned win!)
those shows rarely if every have the bad female tropes. though only NCIS is still running the others can be found on the net/DVDs and are all well worth it.
LurkingGoblin 1 year ago
@LurkingGoblin I watched about 5 episodes of Babylon 5 and just couldn't get into it, I'm ALL about Buffy for sure but I haven't seen NCIS, I'll check it out. Thanks for the suggestion.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency your welcome =) and ya the first season of B5 is pretty much entirely to set up the awesomeness of season 2-4 and then five was unexpected so they just closed up loose ends. i'm a B5 fanatic and even i dislike the first season XD, so ya if you can stand the first season it gets really good and the production values go up as well. the writing is second only to Higurashi.
LurkingGoblin 1 year ago
The only unfortunate thing is that they did not use the opportunity laid before them by their own writing, which could have been because the writers, also products of a rape culture, did not think of it, or could have been because the show is on FOX and this allowed less creative freedom. I have no idea, but I will say that though the show has problems, i think as a science fiction show it thought outside the box and was quite entertaining.
spittingair 1 year ago
Often there is the sensationalized idea of rape being an assault by a man with a weapon in a dark alley that we foolish women couldn't stay out of. However, in the real world, rape is everywhere. Rape situations and excuses for rape are created by people we know, talk to, and often think we can trust. I find the moral ambiguity of the runners of the dollhouse to be a perfect example of the rape culture we live in.
spittingair 1 year ago 3
While I certainly agree that rape occurs a lot in the show, and that they missed a huge opportunity to have a broader discussion about rape, (though Sierra did have a pretty kickass retribution on her own, more obvious rapist in a season two episode) I don't agree that they shouldn't have made the people who worked at the dollhouse unsympathetic, and here is why: We live in a rape culture.
spittingair 1 year ago
While I certainly agree that the dolls in the house are being raped, and I also agree that it is detrimental to the show that they did not have a better and broader discussion about rape (though there was the episode in season two where Sierra dealt with her rapist in a pretty hardcore manner that was awesome) I disagree completely that we should not find the people who run the dollhouse sympathetic if we want to see the rape situation as being bad. My reason is this: Cont. in next post.
spittingair 1 year ago
@spittingair I definitely agree with your basic idea, but I think that with this kind of show, it's important to have the _fact_ of rape more highlighted. Most viewers don't think in the terms of rape culture, and I'm not at all sure the way the show was made would make anyone more aware of the concept.
Nahar2006 1 year ago
Bring back the kickass ladies from Firefly, I say. Oh Joss, what have you wrought?
I watched the second season of Dollhouse and it really didn't improve much.
skepticxjellytot 1 year ago
How much do you know about Joss Whedon? He's done more to write strong, competent female characters than anyone else. He tackled a lot of complex issues in Dollhouse; issues I think you're oversimplifying in this video by assuming that our sympathy is supposed to be with the Dollhouse.
I loved it, and I wish they'd continued, as I know Joss would have probed deeper into all the ethical issues that a business like that would represent. He just wasn't given the time.
Thiefree 1 year ago 60
@Thiefree I am familiar with Whedon's work and know he is held to a different level of scrutiny since he has claimed to be a feminist... when being asked about Dollhouse he claimed that he didn't make a "feminist show" which some how makes it okay.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency My interpretation of that would be that it wasn't his predefined motive, as it was with Buffy; perhaps he even felt that his intentions were compromised in some way by FOX. Difficult to say, without further context.
Anyway, I'm enjoying your videos and have subscribed; this sort of issue interests me and I'd like to hear what else you've got to say on things. :)
Thiefree 1 year ago
@Thiefree
Watch her video about Veronica Mars.
TheHueMan01 1 year ago
@Thiefree
Joss Whedon is a brilliant man, and he has written brilliant female characters. But he's not perfect. I'm a huge fan but Whedon is not the Perfect Feminist. I don't think anyone is.
DeathlingDreams 10 months ago
@Thiefree THIS!
AnaisForTheWin 9 months ago
while i understand this was made at the end of the first season, i think the whole point of dollhouse was to bring the that grey area into the light us really think about why these things are wrong.
but i do agree that this was not the best joss whedon show
did you ever watch firefly? because that is my favorite joss whedon show. the only thing that makes buffy better was that buffy wasn't cancelled partway through the first season
i love the the female characters in firefly and serenity
jaidadraco 1 year ago
Dollhouse on the other hand could remain low cost. Subsequently the problems you mentioned probably left more than enough other viewers similarly conflicted which is why they got canceled. So...mediocre work wasn't supported just because in this particular instance.
Imhotep397 1 year ago
While I can believe there are sexist reasons for why Sarah Connor wasn't renewed, ultimately with the direction that the movies went, the post-production budget would have had to scale exponentially year on year which would be a major problem if the show wasn't getting viewership numbers close to LOST or Heroes.
Imhotep397 1 year ago
Dollhouse was renewed because Fox hates good shows and loves bad ones.
alexhoopes 1 year ago 3
'she's empowered, she's smart, she's strong'- that's why.
i love Joss and Eliza but Dollhouse was crap. it lasted another season because of the 'tits and ass rule' which there was plenty of- for a price. I'm surprised Joss did DH, especially after Buffy. It was like 10 steps backwards. A woman running this 'brothel' + inflicting damage on everyone? "hey guys, you know how you like to blow shit up + destroy mostly everything you touch? well, us girls are jumping on that bandwagon too!"
showmethelight 1 year ago
You said that the dollhouse is supposed to be the "bad guy," and yet has identifiable characters? It is brilliant at how it shows how screwed up we are.
PaperSpock 1 year ago
Actually the morality aspect was adressed a LOT.... but mostly not until season two. Mostly by Paul, I think. And one of the characters in Epitah One points out that it was essentially a brothel.
But at the end, the message was that no matter who was imprinted, for whatever use, it wasn't right. Echo even says "I have 38 brains, not one of them thinks you can sign a contract to be a slave. Especially now that we have black president."
LoveisHopeisFaith 1 year ago
@LoveisHopeisFaith This video was made at the end of season one.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
I too hated the Doll House. It was a beautiful place and I wish I could live there with the blend of nature and tech, AWESOME. However It wasn't misogynistic. That seems to be your favored idea to push. But the guys were also being loaned out as sex fantasies. But I too found it... gross is the only word I found to fit. The whole ideas about enslavement and being force against my will to do something just makes my skin crawl. I also liked Terminator but the writer seemed to get lost in the plot.
1ERIC2YOU 1 year ago
TSCC was one of my favorite shows and Dollhouse was a turd.
Joss Whedon should do a version of Flash Gordon with Dale as a focus. Joss does some great work with buffy,angel and firefly.
Fox cancelling Sarah Connor was a huge mistake and stupid.
Stablemable2 1 year ago
Well, calling dollhouse misogynistic is just sexism itself.
What about the male dolls? How about Victor's engagements with ms. lonelyhearts?
It's rape when it's the women but not the men?
Sexism is really just a one-way street for you isn't it?
And I don't think we're meant to "hate" the dollhouse. We're meant to struggle with the moral grey area.
btw, if it makes you feel any better, (spoiler) Summer Glau is in season 2 along with echo becoming more "empowered"
blackplatypus 1 year ago
People want to see imperfect, morally gray characters. That's why Dollhouse, Dexter, Nurse Jackie, The Sopranos and the like are all succeeding. Its also why the show you listed and others, like Firefly, which strive to show human beings at their best, fail. It is not the artists who are sick, or not only them. The reigning philosophy is that humans are sick, miserable, depraved and weak. Art that supports this philosophy wins, art that runs counter to it fails. Its sad really.
madscirat 1 year ago
And furthermore, all of Joss's characters contain characters you're not "supposed to" like, but do. It's his thing.
interrowhimper 1 year ago
The show deals with that issue a lot. The entire show is about the rape of someone's identity and how that leads to the destruction of our society.
And Joss is a self-described feminist.
interrowhimper 1 year ago 4
@interrowhimper Joss said in a couple of interviews that Dollhouse is not a feminist show.
feministfrequency 1 year ago
@feministfrequency
I say that the lamp in my dining room is not a feminist dining-room lamp. From this, one may reasonably conclude that:
A "I would say that my lamp is philosophically contrary to feminism or feminists."
B "I would say that my lamp is philosophically converse with feminism or with the goals of feminists."
C "I designed my lamp so as to insinuatingly sanction or, at least, prevaricate judgments about institutionalized rape."
D None of the above can be inferred from my statement.
hrothgarvonmt 1 year ago
I don't understand that how you can have a problem with Dollhouse just because the characters are sympathetic. I don't believe the show has to be illustrated in black and white terms in order to understand the evil that the Dollhouse creates. Dollhouse was there to endorse people's fantasies, but there was a lot more to it then that.
1rayman2 1 year ago
The reason I found Terminator so boring was because of the "big, macho fest about gore and violence and blowing things up." I'm squeamish about REAL gory stuff, so it isn't because I'm desensitized toward that stuff.
Also, I did NOT like Sarah Connor in the original Terminator. I realize that most of us, men and women alike, would be helpless in her general situation. But what SHOULD Reese have said when she asked him, "What are the women like in your time?" if not, "They're good fighters"?
rozax740 1 year ago
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1rayman2 1 year ago
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1rayman2 1 year ago
Yeah TSCC FTW
Yogi2k10 1 year ago
I've been a fan of the Terminator franchise since THE TERMINATOR was first premiered on cable when I was ten years old. I really got into the TSCC as well, and I, like many fans, was very disappointed when it was cancelled. I tried to watch DOLLHOUSE, but after watching episodes 2 & 3 I just didn't get it at all, and unfortunately got lost w/ what the hell was going on. I think the last episode I saw was when all the "Dolls" woke up from their trance state, and after that I never saw it again...
MoviesTubeYou0675 1 year ago
heey you should post a review on season 2 of dollhouse and explain how its evolved. i think it got even better then terminator (: nice video though, i was pissed when terminator was cancelled too..till i found out about dollhouse
michelsspace 2 years ago
did you watched season 2?
slanis 2 years ago
@slanis yes I have, I'm waiting for the season finale before I share my thoughts.
feministfrequency 2 years ago
can't wait for that vid....
btw. I really loved that vid you did about Veronica MArs <3
slanis 2 years ago
I'm not sure whats going on. Am I supposed to watch you talk or the pictures? or your earrings? I'm really not sure what to be doing. I'm not heckling, well I kinda was but I do enjoy your youtube clips.
Anyways being a guy into sci-fi I did like both series and would love for the SCC to come back but like Friefly its sadly killed before its time.
Freakazoid2020 2 years ago
Also, we can't forget that FOX is a company and this is business for them, if it's not bringging money it goes to the trash, no matter how good it is. Which is sad, but if i put myself in FOX's shoes i kinda understand them.
tw319882 2 years ago
......But I'm glad it got cancelled , because it tightened up the show and gave us a few season's worth of concept in one (they should stop doing 22 episode seasons, they fail badly...), and the last several episodes have been excellent.
I'm still gutted that Terminator was scraped for this show to continue (what a fucktastical waste! )
But my faith (no pun's intended lol) is now restored in Whedon , I'm looking forward to what he does next...
ColdNova75 2 years ago
Well, I've really been enjoying Dollhouse season two. I've even called this season of it 'pure perfection'. If you haven't caught up with Dollhouse, do yourself a favor and get up to date with it. The show is so amazing now. IMO, the show has been great ever since episode six of season one. The first five episodes weren't that great, because of some things FOX pulled at the last second. But, yeah, I'm very sorry for SCC fans, because I know what it feels like to have a favorite show 'offed'
troyfin2 2 years ago
@troyfin2 I have been watching the second season and I don't like the show any better but I am interested in how it is being wrapped up. Maybe I'll do another video about season 2.
feministfrequency 2 years ago
I have to totally agree with troyfin2, with season 2 we see what Whedon wanted to do with the show from the start ... Fox raped this show and ruined the first season , twisting it enough to push it out of context , in to "brain washed whore of the week " territory , which is so tragic .....
ColdNova75 2 years ago
I actually really like your videos (although I violently disagree with about everything you said on this particular video XD)
But I thought I should let you know you're pronouncing Joss Whedon's name incorrectly. It's said "Joss Weedon"
I would argue that Dollhouse's appeal is the 'greyness' you mentioned. Every character is both sympathetic and repulsive (a bit like HBO's OZ) and this was true for both male and female characters.
Plus, Dollhouse infinitely improved in the second season
SeeThinkFall 2 years ago 2
@SeeThinkFall Thanks, I'm glad you are enjoying my videos (even if you don't agree) and also, thanks about the pronunciation, I always get his name wrong for some reason.
feministfrequency 2 years ago
I have never seen either show. While I've heard of the Sarah Connor Chronicles (haven't watched it, because I don't have time to add another show to my schedule and I have too many as it is), I've never even heard of Dollhouse. Personally, I don't think it's wrong to portray rape or sex slaves in television as long as it's portrayed as evil. If the show is portraying these elements as evil, I don't think it's sexist. If they're saying it's okay, then it's sexist. If I'm wrong, let me know.
dianesummers1989 2 years ago
I never saw Dollhouse but I can well believe what you say is true. T:SCC was AMAZING! I was mortified when it was cancelled. It also had the female T1000 and her relationship with her (creepily) "adopted" daughter. I think it says a lot that this is one of the very few shows I would actually talk to my Mum about on the phone! She loved it too. Right. I'm gonna go and put my inane commentary on your Bechdel test video. Keep up the good work!
FizzyMcPhysics 2 years ago
(continued) The reason we need to feel for the people working for the dollhouse is because we need to be able to realize that these people are not the actual dollhouse, the people who work there do not agree with it. The first season was very strongly focussed on Echo, especially her engagements. In season two, we see this idea going away, and the show changes into something with a great ensemble cast about the actual Dollhouse. And it is very close in quality to much of Whedon's other work.
NowherManYoshi 2 years ago
I understand what you mean, and I respect your opinion, but I disagree. I actually enjoyed Sarah Conner, and agree with all of your reasons and more. However, I think that Dollhouse is also a great show. Dollhouse is about the individual in relation to the corporation. The law in relation to morality. The distinction between what you want, and what you need. The entire first season was primarily background for what Whedon already had planned for the following four seasons.
NowherManYoshi 2 years ago
I can see what you mean, and I respect your opinion as your opinion, but I disagree with it.
First, I would like to say that I did enjoy Sarah Conner. And agree with what you said about that show. However, I do not really agree with what you said about Dollhouse. Dollhouse is really about people in relation to corporations, and law in relation to morality And, possibly most importantly, the distinction between what you want and what you need.
NowherManYoshi 2 years ago
Hey, aren't the men on Dollhouse treated as objectively as the women? Other than that I can respectively differ. I'm sorry your show was canceled though.
Nekorin 2 years ago
@Nekorin Yes, there are male active on the show but I think its safe to say that most of the more sexual engagements (ie prostitution) are with the female actives. Additionally, the vast majority of sex workers in the real world are women, and this show is (in its own twisted way) reflecting that reality.
feministfrequency 2 years ago
@feministfrequency Well, my memory may be flawed, but I think the show had the practice of showing the female actives coming back from prostitution but not during it (unless it was of the complicated variety) but it showed the male active actually doing it with DeWitt... Even if I'm right, not sure what that means.
Nekorin 2 years ago
I think on one level that was intentional , as a realistic reflection of society etc , but the male actives are whores too...
Basically , every time one of the actives go on an engagement (male or female) they are mind raped . **SPOILER ALERT!!!**
In the end ,the technology lead's to the fate , and end ,of the entire human race.
The whole "Rossum" corporation idea was brilliant , it's from a play by Karel Čapek from the 1920's , I loved the way Whedon brought it in to the 21st century.
ColdNova75 2 years ago
Dollhouse could have been excellent if they'd handled it properly. It seemed like they were afraid to go anywhere near any of the issues you mention, which were the only interesting thing about it really. Sometimes they would flirt with more serious territory, but they seemed to loose heart, as if afraid to alienate the audience by making them think too much about what was going on. I stuck with it, even defended it on some message board somewhere. Regretting it now though. Shame!
IM863 2 years ago
@IM863 Ya, I feel like it could have been interesting if it was less focused on the engagements and more on the technology and resistance to it. I've really disliked most of Season 2 but I feel like if the rest of the show was more like "Stop Loss" and "The Attic" it could have been far more compelling.
feministfrequency 2 years ago
The first handful of episodes of season 1 were all about creepy, horrible men chasing after women - I saw the female empowerment angle, but something really bothered me about it. It was the last few episodes of season 1 that got me hooked, actually. I think season 2 is bringing up a lot of great questions and I'd love to hear your take.
I felt much the same as you, but I suspect that it's the complexity of how to read the story that is it's strength - or at least I hope that's how it pans out.
PixelFool 2 years ago
Fox has a history of appealing to the lowest common demoninator and cutting anything that does not turn an immediate and substantial profit. I am not surprised that they made the decisions that they did, only further disgusted by them. Here is hoping that some networks with the patience and forsight to let series develop for long term profitability rather than quick returns come out on top.
Also, the presence of Summer Glau makes any work better. :)
FearlessSon 2 years ago
omg.... it's complete fantasy... dollhouse is a fantasy... it has some really interesting concepts and ideas... the show raises heaps of politcal and moral issues and views... but that's what it's made to do... sorry some people don't like to have to think about what they're watching...
most of human society is more fucked up than that show any way... if you got a problem with shit like that... why bother bagging a TV show, why not go out and do something where is matters?
Yiasafrai 2 years ago 2
I think the fact that we can sympathise with the characters that work for the Dollhouse is good. I think it helps us realize that because people make bad choices, that doesn't mean their bad people. The characters have progressed very interestingly in Season Two, and while I had my doubts about the show in Season One, I'm now loving it, and sad its not coming back for a Third Season. I think dollhouse had potential in season one, and proved itself in season two. But I understand your views :)
taylorswiftfan333 2 years ago
I haven't seen Dollhouse, but from what I hear, its hard to think that Joss considers himself a feminist. Off topic but I noticed your inclusion of the Dexter logo, and I wonder what your opinion on it is. I am a huge feminist and a huge fan of the show. Granted, it has flaws (For example, ALL of season two), but I was just curious if you added Dexter in there because you have seen it and think its misogynistic, or because it was only an example of the violence you were talking about.
xtehsex 2 years ago
You may not like Dollhouse, and I accept that, but the reason it was renewed was because Whedon fought for it, what did Friedman do TSCC, absolutely nothing, and after it was cancelled Friedman issued a statement saying we did the best we could now move on, after firefly was canned Whedon fought tooth and nail for Serenity, which is what he did for dollhouse, and while you may like TSCC better its clear Friedman wasn't nearly as passionate, and that's reason alone to prefer Dollhouse
Aquaerus 2 years ago 8
@Aquaerus Something I found curious, though, Whedon himself said that he'd rather have kept TSCC rather than Dollhouse, his own show :S Crazy, eh?
dre4mwe4ver 1 year ago
It's funny when you think about it: Connor got "terminated" and fans begged for it to come back, knowing that there was (and still are) plenty of scenarios for a third season.
Fox keeps Dollhouse...and now they're axing it. Pojnt being: they should have kept Sarah around, but thank god for Warner Brothers. There still might be a third season yet (straight to DVD).
LoyalPadme 2 years ago
sorry guys but i have to disagree. dollhouse may be alittle shakey on the subject on whether or not this is rape but common its a tv show. i think the show is really good but you guys have a right to your own opinion. mabey its just because i am a drama junkie and this show has alot of it lol!!
sdkfun414 2 years ago 2
yeah Terminator TV show doesn't add up to the movie, don't you think?
aiaek 2 years ago
I watched Dollhouse because it was Whedon. I stopped caring about 4 episodes into the first season. Dollhouse survived because of the Whedon cult and probably Whedon cashed in some favors for it to survive.
I loved the Sarah Connor Chronicles. My big problem with it was the actor playing John Connor. He seemed so weak and boring. I thought with the Terminator 4 movie would help the series survive.
hardworker424 2 years ago
They have begun to explain the rape issue though in this second season with sierra, when that one crazy guy bought her from them. if they would give it more time im sure joss could create another master piece like buffy again i mean hell the first season of buffy was just like dollhouse, by that i mean every first season starts off with introducing characters and as the show goes on introduces more about their pasts.
Tikada22 2 years ago
I think Dollhouse is structurally wrong at it's very premise (I think the same thing about firefly) and if the structure is wrong, I don't believe the show can be salvaged. With Buffy, I think it was founded on an empowering premise with lots of room to grow. I thought it was interesting that they were addressing the issue of rape in the episode you are referring to but as that show unfolded I was continually horrified... (& unfortunately I don't have enough room to write all the reasons why)
feministfrequency 2 years ago
Well I remember things like dark angel and how fox canceled that show and it rocked i don't think anyone could disagree and be serious about it without kidding themselves, and fox canceled it made by the same person who created T:SCC. but i believe dollhouse can be salvaged. Some see it as rape some, well I'm feeling kinda of raped of a great show so now what?
Tikada22 2 years ago
There are several shows that are structurally wrong and they go on for years and years, like Dexter its about a fracking serial killer is that structurally right, and what season is it in now 3, 4, so while Dollhouse maybe structurally right that doesn't mean it can't be salvaged
Aquaerus 2 years ago
Because a show is renewed doesn't necessarily mean its a good show.
feministfrequency 2 years ago
But now we're delving into the opinion territory, whereas what you think is good I may not, and what I think is good you may not, so I guess all that's left is to agree to disagree
Aquaerus 2 years ago
thx
donzoio007 2 years ago
But when they sign in the contract to the Dollhouse they basically consent to anything Dollhouse does to them with the exception of bodily/physical harm to them. So basically i am pretty sure that the actives in Dollhouse sign off and agree to the sex, usage, etc... anything else Dollhouse uses them for.
amorat627 2 years ago
So if you have a gun to your head and someone says sign your life into a world of prostitution, chances are you are going to do it. Coercion does not equal consent. The show has alluded to the fact that the actives have shady histories which have put them in a position to which they don't actually have a "choice." Additionally, I don't recall anything about "exception of bodily/physical harm" because Echo gets the hell beat out of her on multiple occasions.
feministfrequency 2 years ago
No one put a gun to their heads. They should have though twice about signing their bodies over to a organization/company. Instead they felt desperate and probably got into worse trouble for trying to take an easy way out of their problems but i see your point but i don;t think it was coercion. Remember Echo as well as 2 other female actives volunteered due to certain problems they had. No one forced them to join. But whatever, just my point of view and you are entitled to your opinion as well.
amorat627 2 years ago
November aka Madeline wasn't coerced she volunteered, so while you have a point on some of the dolls, it's probably only very few that are coerced, in the L.A. Dollhouse at least
Aquaerus 2 years ago
From what I remember November was in a horrible personal/financial situation (I think she even lost her child??) and that will all lead her to believe she has no other option then enter the dollhouse.
feministfrequency 2 years ago
I love Joss, mainly for Firefly and Serenity, but I seriously hate Dollhouse. I tried so hard to analyze every little thing in the show to find something good that I liked, but I just couldn't do it.
With that being said, I love TSCC. I'm not the biggest fan of the movies, but the show was so much deeper than any of the films. The cast was amazing, and over time you really began to care about the characters. I could go on, but point is, I am incredibly disappointed... Save TSCC people.
bigcpeck 2 years ago
thanks for this video
i agree too
pezave 2 years ago
Thank you for posting this. I agree 100%. I like Joss Whedon as much as the next Browncoat, but Dollhouse was a huge strike. I understand that he had good intentions with DH, but... yeah. Way too morally ambiguous for my taste. And not too great acting either. Terminator was the smartest television show I'd ever seen. Probably why it was axed. :/
coldeadfish 2 years ago
I really do prefer shows like Firefly and Terminator because not everything gets answered every episode. It's not like Dollhouse, (a "monster of the week" show), that only appeals to people who are easily hooked on reality TV.
It's kind of like how Chris Carter came close to pretty much singlehandedly destroying the X-files by insisting on a "monster of the week" movie instead of continuing the "mythology" like everyone was waiting for.
Fox (and reality TV show lovers) all suck!
Cthulu7919 2 years ago
Unfortunately for his loyal viewership, Chris Carter was admittedly just making up the myth arc as he went. As a result, he started writing himself into a coner, and could not really escape it, just putting MotW plots up to fill time.
FearlessSon 2 years ago
I love you for making this video
ToxicFuture 2 years ago
Alpha from Dollhouse was already damaged before he was wiped. Saying that he was damaged by the Dollhouse is inaccurate because other people, Whiskey, did not react in a similar fashion.
The problem with Terminator was there was no specific goal. Stay alive? Stop Skynet? If this was to be a lead into the 3rd movie, why are they witnessing so many Terminators being sent back in time? Skynet might as well just start the war early.
leotigerman86 2 years ago 3
I think Joss wants to create that moral dilemma for the viewers of "this is wrong, but I like these people." A lot more interesting and thought provoking than "We good, they bad, kill kill kill."
You don't like crazy serial killers but you're watching a show called terminator? And wtf was with John being a cry baby?
ArmitageX 2 years ago 3
I watched Terminator but didn't like it as much as Dollhouse. Sarah is a wimp, they kept killing all the characters off, some of the eps were dull and went nowhere, etc.
Terminator is all recycled ideas, it's time for something new... like Dollhouse.
In a perfect world they'd both still be on, but FOX doesn't know good TV or how to handle it when they have it (Firefly, futurama, etc.). Fox, not the shows, is to blame for most of their failures.
ArmitageX 2 years ago
I watched the whole first season of dollhouse and until the finally it wasn't worth it at all. I like how you are left to discuss the morality on your own.
Justwosweet 2 years ago
WAT dam u fox
Mo0KiEBoY 2 years ago
I agree that terminator sarah conner chronicles shouldn't have been cancelled , the season finale was so awsome and so many question unanswered.
But dollhouse is also pretty good , your just overthinking it. I watched buffy and dollhouse , and i think dollhouse is alot better as buffy but thats just me
Binsto 2 years ago 3
I agree. Joss Weadon hasn't made anything good since Buffy the Vampire Slayer. This is, of course, just my opinion. I am also pissed about them keeping Dollhouse but getting rid of Terminator. Dollhouse is crap.
KyanisSunweaver 2 years ago
Dollhouse > Terminator.
labsjoao 2 years ago
aren't they consenting by signing in the first place?
crnogora 2 years ago
Coerced consent under threats of fear and violence is not consent and they made it clear that the dollhouse found people that they could manipulate into signing there lives away.
feministfrequency 2 years ago
nice hair
cuervoDOTson 2 years ago
Love your stuff!
daveka 2 years ago
Thanks!
feministfrequency 2 years ago
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mikeyfridgebuzz 2 years ago
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mikeyfridgebuzz 2 years ago
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mikeyfridgebuzz 2 years ago
Your videos are great, why dont you post more then 2 :( I was looking forward to more :D
GreenBlade8100 2 years ago
Thanks! I am on a long roadtrip right now but I hope to upload a bunch more when I get settled again!
feministfrequency 2 years ago
Dollhouse misogynistic? Rape? Yeah, you're definitely over analyzing.
rep5281 2 years ago 7
I think it's important to look critically at our media since we engage with it everyday... I'm definitely going to "over analyze" when we watch women are being treated like sex slaves to rich and powerful men every week.
feministfrequency 2 years ago
@rep5281 It is rape. If Eliza Dushku goes on a date with a psycho who has vigorous sex with her and then has her memories of it wiped--then yeah, that is a high-tech-roofie version of rape. No over-analyzing necessary.
turtlewings 1 year ago
Huh?
Interesting, totally disagreement but done so with respect.
Will miss TSCC but will continue to enjoy Dollhouse.
Really Glad didnt have to chose which one got the boot because it would have been hard.
dog1010 2 years ago 3
damn you fox!!
krashdown102 2 years ago
LONG LIVE SARAH CONNOR
BiGReDTrON01 2 years ago
I agree with everything you say in this video , I was totally gutted when they axed SCC for Dollhouse , and as a big Joss Whedon fan I thought Dollhouse was pathetically lame, Eliza really over acted in every episode and the whole thing just died of death by the third show in to the season ....
I could see it all going to shit when fox did that "Grind-house" promo ad , it was deeply misogynistic , and very lame.
Oh.... and your ear rings are lush !
ColdNova75 2 years ago