Carl Sagan on radio astronomy & the Drake Equation

[RJL738]

This begs the question of wether a new kind of equation could be invented. We know of simple equations like 3x9*3=9 or something like that and we know of more advanced equations that don't contain one line but several lines under them. Like 7.3x10^18 with a divide line under and a greek letter or another notation and so on stacked under each other. These thus far would be one and two dimentional equations. Why add a third axis and have a layer behind the 2D equation. A 3 dimentional equation.

[ElysianFields100]

There may well be an infinite number of unknown universes out there. Ancient universes billions of years in advance to our own. Surely (with this bare assertion) they have the ways & means of spanning the huge oceans of time and space.

Entertaining this thought, didn't the ancient ones paint & tell stories of such rumors (the ones we mock & belittle) of beings coming down from above? The same heavenly beings the religious ones call- even today, gods.

I use to laugh at Erik Von Daniken.

[FoxBatinaHat]

Consider/Factor: Time. Our own solar system is not very old.

Consider/Factor: Our own pre-disposition for self-destruction should not be a factor in the equation since the evolution of intelligent lifeforms do not necessarilly include aggressive behavior between groups of the same intelligence. Nor the same learning/teaching/methods of miss-using technologies.

I would be much more inclined to say at least 100 planets have emerged intelligence that is capable of communicating presently.

[randy95023]

We would have to be extremely arrogant to believe that WE are the only intelligent life in the Universe. There are probably many millions of advanced civilizations scattered throughout the many Galaxies. Inter stellar and inter galactic distances will probably keep us from communicating, let alone traveling to, other civilizations. The "Drake Equation" is purposely EXTREMELY conservative so people like Carl Sagan don't look like "nuts" to the average Joe...

[randy95023]

Continued- Drake Equation only counts planets and not the moons that orbit those planets. We know from Jupiter and Saturn's moons that they could have life, just like a planet IF they were in the "Goldilock's Zone".  Multiply the end result of the Drake Equation by 400 Billion and it would be more accurate. Why didn't Drake count for those moons?

[Zurround100]

I always liked Carl Segan. I wish instead of dying of cancer he had lived to a ripe old age like some people do. Had that happened I would have loved to get to meet him.

[OccamsRzzr]

I've been there!!!! It is BIG! Then we went back to San Juan and got drunk.

[Ypipable]

Orion may help.

[dprague]

There is no intellent life on Earth. Thus, we need to eliminate one possibility from this equation.

[OldSchoolSkill]

This presentation of the Drake equation, from the Cosmos series, is the best evidence for the possibility of alien life.

Notice: this is based only upon the number of stars in our galaxy; 400 billion.

This was done before the Hubble discovered that there are hundreds of billions of GALAXIES throughout the universe.

Statistically, alien life is virtually a guaranteed proposition. Seeing aliens on Earth is highly unlikely though because of vast distances and the limitations of light-speed.

[p0llenp0ny]

And also the relatively short time period that an intelligent civilization exists. We're just a flash of light going off in a universe with unimaginable time scales.

[opiates]

@OldSchoolSkill That, and the fact that WE are here guarantees it. It happened here so it'll happen elsewhere.

[Synthetrix]

Agreed. It's nice to believe in X-files fantasies, but the reality is that there is no real evidence of any alien visitors past or present.

[Uber400s]

@OldSchoolSkill however, the alien civilizations could have possibly mastered alternate forms of travel (ie, wormholes) and have much longer lifespans, thus redering them capable of traveling such vast distances with relavtive ease.

[OldSchoolSkill]

@Uber400s Yes, perhaps. However, it seems far more plausible that alien civilizations would use self-replicating robots to explore other worlds instead of visiting themselves. That certainly is a more practical approach and would allow safer interaction to discover if any world is worth visiting before they mobilized resources to travel such vast distances, regardless of increased life spans. My point is merely that this presentation shows the overwhelming odds in favor of alien life.

[Uber400s]

@OldSchoolSkill Well your point is much more logical. I hope you don't think I was trying to cause any problems here.

[OldSchoolSkill]

@Uber400s No problem! Sometimes the character limit makes conversations so terse as to seem confrontational.

[X180SE]

@OldSchoolSkill It is a mischaracterization to state that, “the Hubble [telescope] discovered that there are hundreds of billions of galaxies throughout the universe.” Both Drake, at the time he postulated his hypothesis, & Sagan, at the time he produced Cosmos, knew there were innumerable galaxies beyond our own. The Hubble just gave us much clearer vision to examine them.

[X180SE]

@OldSchoolSkill Although the odds for life elsewhere seem like a no-brainer, the chance of a simple deck of cards being spontaneously shuffled back into the perfect order before it was unwrapped is 1 in 10 to the 68th power. Life similar to bacteria may be rare, intelligent life magnitudes rarer.

[OldSchoolSkill]

@X180SE

Agreed, 100%.

[TheDan337]

@OldSchoolSkill You’re a little confused: Thomas Wright correctly deduced that some “nebulae” might be seperate collections of stars in 1750. From 1912, much analysis of spectrographic data and nova magnitudes by Vesto Slipher, Heber Curtis, Ernst Öpik and others culminated in a consensus with the presentation in 1925 of a paper by Edwin Hubble (after whom “the Hubble” telescope, to which you refer, was named). By 1980, Sagan was quite aware of the existence of galaxies outside our own.

[myhood25]

your just geussing and your calling that smart?

[DancingSpiderman]

I enjoyed how Carl would get lockjaw three times during every sentence.

Spock's uncle, Carl Sagan.

I wish you were still here with us.

R.I.P.

[rayunseitig]

Where can I get the plans for one of these?

Nice video.

[JezeroCraterDweller]

Carl Sagan's ability to take what we know and make it so that everyone has a chance to see and hear it was his greatest gift.

I want to see some of the others that inhabit this universe!

[anthony68drake]

What about the Koran thumpers? They seem like the group most determined these days to take us all back into the Stone Age....

[p0llenp0ny]

And then you have the military industrial complex determined to help them blast us back to the stone age. ;-)

[OldSchoolSkill]

@anthony68drake True, if you believe what you are fed my the media. We must consider the possibility that media messages regarding "Koran thumpers" could be biased, at the very least.

At worst, our Western perceptions of Muslims could be heavily propagandized for the purposes of justifying wars and stealing oil. Also, fear-instigating editorials of Muslims is greater during elections, when the subject is used as a "wedge-issue". It is this type of xenophobia that Carl Sagan fought.

[Donatello2030]

just great higway of info.everyone apart from the bible thumpers know that we need science to further our knowledge of planetary formation for our own survival on this planet,,,as the only people in control of our destiny are us,,,whether we survive as a species or go the way of the dinosaurs ,,only our own understanding can save us ,,, the more we know the longer we will survive. Thank you.Carl Segan,NASA,ESA,& you *** SDESDE***