Big Bang 3of4: Background Radiation Predicted & Discovered

[thremtopod315]

if god made the universe with all this evidence to trick us, then he probably wants us to believe it...

[Darkfoster22]

Hmm sounds like the 1st light like in genesis

[asinine81]

if a world flood happened. enough water to cover the highest mountains. where the water go? fucking idiot.

[kirsion]

nice try

[Uaz31]

Or.... God spoke and created it all they way it is now and it didn't take billions of years but rather an instant.

[soylentgreenb]

If you want to believe god created an elaborate illusion to fuck with your mind; knock yourself out.

[Uaz31]

No thats what Satan does.. it likes to play the judge, makes it feel like God and yes, I'll believe what I know is true just like you believe what you feel you must.

You don't want there to be a God, even though you know there is so that you can pretend you don't have to answer to anyone other than yourself.

[greycloud24]

please give me evidence that god exists. it must be independantly verifiable, observable, and measurable. i only beleive in things that have these qualities.

i don't beleive in satan either.

if you beleive in satan and you beleive that god is omnipotent and omniscent and unfallable than you must accept that god created satan intending satan to do what he does. so god is really at fault for anything that satan does.

[Uaz31]

Evidence for God's existance is easy, that evidence is life itself, mankind is an even greater example being we are created in His likeness.

All life must come from life which means there is a ultimate life, an infinite life force (God). Without this "lifeforce" life cannot exist, which explains why we live in a dying universe.

Natural laws also point to there being a creator, we are governed by them.

Problem is some people just don't want to believe they are held accountable by God.

[greycloud24]

how does life prove that god exists?

i could say that speghetti proves the flying speghetti monster exists, but the statement would be empty without an explanation as to how this proves the existance of the flying speghetti monster.

so how does life prove that god exists? how does natural law point to the idea of a creator?

please explain the mechanisms that a creature would use to to create such things. then we can look for the creature that uses the mechanisms.

[Uaz31]

Yes but something created speghetti God doesn't have a creator and we were discussing a creator not food, which is not even a living organism.

I already explained it to you, life can only come from life, therefore there is a ultimate life giver. Common sense really.

Natural laws point to a creator by the very laws that they are in design.

Mechanisms? God is the mechanism, energy in its purest form would have been what all matter was created from. God spoke.

[Di66en6ion]

Oh yeesh, not this laws have a lawmaker argument again. Assumptions built on assumptions.

[Uaz31]

Satan is very real, I personally believe Satan is not a perticular being but rather a description of all fallen angelic beings, aka anti-Christ. I can't imagine any real leadership in such pathetic beings.

God created us all with freewill so what we choose to do is not God's responsibility. We are accountable for our own actions to God being He is the establisher of the law and outside of that law is sin which leads to death.

[greycloud24]

the little girl from the movie "the ring" is also very real. and she displays supernatural powers as she crawls out of television sets and kills people. much like your god and your satan there is no verifiable information on her doing this, but we must have faith that it occurs. after all nobody can say that they were killed by her. we know she kills them and we cannot verify that she does not, because they are all dead now. she is supernatural, as we can see from her ability to move through tv

[Uaz31]

I would never watch that movie, sounds distasteful. Another comparison that has nothing to do with a creator.

Thats only a movie, with God we have living proof in our everyday lives and most importantly through His word the Bible.

[greycloud24]

you have yet to provide any evidence. i state the evidence in the movie "the ring" provides the exact type of evidence in truth as the bible does. can you give me evidence that would be useful to scientists who actually like to discover real truths instead of stories and ideas?

[Uaz31]

relating to science? Yes. There is tons of evidence that proves the Bibles accounts of events are true therefore verifying Gods existance through His word.

The greatest example would be Noah's flood. Rock layers, fossil records, coal formation to name just a few all provide evidence for a world wide flood having happened.

If what God has said in His word is true then that proves God exists. :) And we have that proof. T-rex femur with red blood cells and tissue intact is another example.

[greycloud24]

noah's flood is said to have covered the entire earth. there is no evidence that mt everest has ever been fully submerged. please give me the evidence that china and everest have been submerged because the scientific evidence i have seen says they have not.

Alexander Friedmann predicted that there would be cosmological background radiation from the big bang, this is how we know it is true. he made the prediction in a much more specific way, he is more right.

[Uaz31]

radiation doesn't prove the big bang, you only want to assume it does. Radiation can occur from a number of reasons, there is no evidence that verifies it as coming from a single explosion.

There is plenty of evidence from all over the world that supports a world wide flood. Rock layers and fossils in China are an example as well as coal formation too.

The evidence we have indicates a world wide catastrophy a few thousands years ago not millions, time to rewrite your history books.

[theinquisitor]

Uaz, the cosmic microwave background is just one of many lines of converging evidence that supports the big bang theory. Another is the fact that on the large scale, the galaxies are all moving away from each other, and the further away they are, the faster they are moving away from us, this is called the hubble constant. The universe is expanding. They're moving such that at about 13 billion years ago, everything would have been in the same place. This is only one of many lines of evidence.

[dominickearney]

If we are talking about the whole world being underwater, that would require more water than is present in the world today. Where did it come from, and where did it go?

[Uaz31]

Thats easy to explain. The ocean floors were higher and the mountains were lower before the flood.

If you raised the ocean floors all to sea level the world would indeed be underwater.

The geography was changed as a result of siezmic activity in the earth, volcanoes, earthquakes, receeding flood waters.

[dominickearney]

Cite your source that says that the ocean floors 4000 years ago were at present day sea level. Any encyclopedia will do.

[Uaz31]

It would have been 7,000 years ago the flood happened, recent Bibical timeline puts the flood at 4,990 B.C. and creation at 11,013 B.C.

The Bible is my source for information, it is my authority. Science also verifies a young Earth and a world wide flood as mentioned in Genesis. Fossil records, rock layers, coal formation the list goes on and on.

Now might not have been exactly at present day sea level but you get the picture.

[Chooky707]

I like the way you blindly trust a book written by people thousands of years ago. 'Cause you know, science hasn't advanced AT ALL in the past 2000 years. And also... where are your sources? I'm afraid real science has proved none of those things. Oh and the fossil records you seem to be pointing to also happen to prove evolution.

And how do you know the Qur'an isn't correct?

[Uaz31]

eh? Science has not proved what? Im not digging up my comment. If your referring to evolution, no science has not proved that, fossil records do not prove evolution in any way shape or form. They are but bones and you cannot even know if any bones found even had offspring. The bones do not show us evolution.

My sources? Science is my source u shmuck.

No science advancement in last 2000 years? You believe that? If so, then I don't know why Im even responding to you.

[theinquisitor]

"you cannot even know if any bones found even had offspring"

Nice Hovind quote. You really don't understand the claims you're attempting to refute. The claim isn't dependant on the specific organisms that formed the fossils having offspring.

The point is that fossils morphology and position in the strata shows continual change and diversification of forms. No primates below a certain point, no mammals below a certain point, no reptiles, etc.

Why not learn what a claim is before you reject it.

[Uaz31]

"You really don't understand the claims you're attempting to refute. The claim isn't dependant on the specific organisms that formed the fossils having offspring."

I understand it alot better than you do obviously. Its idiotic to believe that a fossil can prove evolution happened in any way shape or form.

Their dry dead bones, the only story they tell is where they died and that doesn't provide any evidence whatsoever for evolution.

[Chooky707]

Hey buddy, before you keep trying to disprove evolution why don't you quote some sources. OTHER than the bible. Real sources.

[Uaz31]

Disprove evolution? lol. I don't need to disprove it, its already disproven. That's the funny yet scary thing, all you Darwinians keep preaching your religion of evolution, saying its a fact and all that when in reality science has already disproven any possiblility of it happening. Whether it be in biology or fossils there is no absolute concrete evidence for it.

The fact is its a faith based belief, a religion and you want it to be true, don't you?

[Chooky707]

"Disprove evolution? lol. I don't need to disprove it, its already disproven" Once again I would like you to quote your source. Thats sort of neccesary. And ease up on the personal attacks. I don't "want" evolution to be true. Infact I'd be happier if it was false. I wouldn't have to waste so much time lecturing students on DNA and all that. I could just say "God did it" and my entire class gets A's. Please quote a proper source next time. Oh, and I take it your 12 using the pahse "lol."

[Uaz31]

34 next month, ya I prefer lil I don't know why I use lol. I tryed to get people to use lil when lol started but it just didnt catch like lol did.

[Chooky707]

Ok. But instead of changing the subject... Just quote a source. Please.

[theinquisitor]

It's like pulling teeth trying to get anything approaching a rational argument from creationists. He'll eventually just cite answers in genesis and claim the entire scientific community is engaged in a global conspiracy to make his religion look stupid.

[Chooky707]

Ha ha. My thoughts exactly. I'm getting tired of explaining basic scientific theories I was taught as a kid to a bunch of fanatical, high school drop-outs

[theinquisitor]

Indeed. Sometimes I think the only way to fix the willful ignorance about science is simply to educate the younger generation properly. The creationists know this and that's why they're attacking the education system.

You mentioned that you were a teacher in a previous comment. Do you teach at a school or a university? What is the situation there regarding the teaching of things like evolution and cosmology?

[Chooky707]

School. In a country outside of America. I don't like giving away personal info if thats ok. But the situation over here is that the half-baked creationist theories are rejected in favour of real science.

[theinquisitor]

That's good news. As far as I know, the same is true of the UK where I live, although we do have a problem teaching about the holocaust in history class because it contradicts what a lot of muslim students hear from their religious leaders. We have to bastardise education and insult the jewish community because not doing that offends the muslim community. It's insane. Why can't they just teach their nonsense in their own churches or mosques? Do we expect them to teach science in church?

[Chooky707]

Oh yeh. I agree. I cna understand why people would be upset. But the truths the truth.

[Uaz31]

The placement in the strata is evidence for the flood as that is how the animals would have died naturally in order of death with birdies on the top.

[theinquisitor]

"The placement in the strata is evidence for the flood as that is how the animals would have died"

Do you really think that makes sense? The same applies to plants, which obviously didn't run up to the hills. What about the fish? Why do fish show the same stratification if this was because of a flood?

Even if this made sense, there would have to be no exceptions. Not one modern mammal of any kind in the lower layers? Not one corpse or bone. One rabbit in the cambrian would disprove evolution.

[Uaz31]

"Do you really think that makes sense?"

It makes complete sense, the evolutionists claims we have a evolutionary stages in the strata because it seems that they progressed when in actuality that is just the order they would have been buried from the flood.

Im waitin to see what more they find in the artic as more of that ice melts. They already found tropical trees and a turtle I believe, things that shouldnt be in artic. Thats where alot of the bones would have ended up if was flood.

[Chooky707]

really? Source please!

[Chooky707]

"No science advancement in last 2000 years? You believe that? If so, then I don't know why Im even responding to you."

Gee thats funny. The way you can't come up with an answer so you ignore obvious sarcasm. You still haven't shown ANY actual sources. By sources I mean written, peer-reviewed, scientiffic papers by actual scientist. And yes, we can't tell if EVERY fossil had children but the majority would have, thats called statistics.

[Uaz31]

"And how do you know the Qur'an isn't correct?"

There are alot of reasons, one would be because it denies a sovereign creator. They do not believe God can have different characteristics as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

There is no salvation, you still have your sins and you therefore must still make payment for your sins.

Jesus came to save lives

Luke 9:56

Mohammed was called to destroy lives

Surah 48:16

[Chooky707]

So basicly what you just said there was. The bible isn't incorrect becuase it says so. And the Qur'an is incorect because it doesn't agree with the bible (which you didn't prove is actually correct). Look, I don't have any problem with faith and religion. What I do have a problem with is people who reject science and try to force Christianity on school children. You haven't actually proved the Qur'an is incorrect yet. You've just quoted the bible.

[MANTICORE989]

fuck the bible

i rather burn it

hope to see you in hell

[boxa888]

nikola tesla should have gotten the nobel prize for discovering cosmic rays/ background radiation in 1901. he even has a patent for a device that collects them and turns them into electricity through ionization. research it, its the truth, i even remade it, it makes energy!

[theinquisitor]

What's the name of the device?

[boxa888]

"apparatus for the utilization of radiant energy"1901, just search it on google patent search, there are somany other things to he should have gotten the prize for, just look at his inventions,this shows you how far ahead of science he was, and still is.the history writers are cruel for leaving him out, ac and ac motors alone help make the american economy superior for over 100yrs!. his wardencliff tower would have given a world power unity and internet, there would have been no wires or grids.

[theinquisitor]

and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon.

[boxa888]

????i guess lol. i really dont get what ur saying.

[theinquisitor]

It's a quote from Star Trek 3 where Scotty is expressing his dislike for a new type of engine that he thinks won't work.

I don't know much about this tesla stuff, but it sounds like fringe pseudo science to me. Are there any peer reviewed papers on the subject? Have there been proper scientific controls in the experiments? Why wouldn't we embrace any new energy technology that works? We have an energy crisis, scientists would jump at this stuff if it had any credibility.

[boxa888]

well, just build it. i gave the whole information how to build it. its quite easy to build! i hope you understand that there is corruption and greed in the world, thats why some ideas never make it to the surface. no way is this psuedo science! tesla made so much for this world, this was real cutting edge science! its up to you,u dont have to build it. i just want to help people out, the worlds on the brink of an economic depression, what if it just stops, atleast you will have electrcity,thanks

[theinquisitor]

So where are the peer reviewed papers? Have you even heard of peer review?

[boxa888]

i dont know where it is this is over 100 yrs old, lol. man alls i wanted to do is help people out, whats wrong with that? it works i show you how to build it, we will all make our own peer review, one kid got over 150 volts in 5 minutes!, thats a good peer review of my remake of this device. im sorry if i offended you, i just wanted to help you out , sorry :(**** im really sorry :(*****

[theinquisitor]

Look, it's not your intentions that are the problem, it's the fact that you don't realise that you aren't doing anything useful. There are so many bogus claims about perpetual motion machines and all kinds supposed free energy devices made by people who don't realise they're putting more energy in than they get out. There is a serious energy crisis going on and there are real scientists trying to solve these problems, and you're doing pseudoscience and calling them liars.

[boxa888]

but im not, did u check out the videos? im not a fake. it is useful. there is energy from cosmic rays and such.i give all the information to build it,that way i cant be fake once you see results comming down. im still sorry,i wasnt raise to be a liar.i understand i wasnt taught about cosmic ray radiation so i dont know everything about them,but i have done tons of internet research from oficial sites to learn about them. tesla knew about harnessing cosmic rays, im sure his device was way better

[theinquisitor]

I don't think you're a liar, I'm just very doubtful that you've used the scientific method properly. Why do you think that the thousands of scientists around the world, who are working to increase energy efficiency and come up with renewable energy sources, have completely ignored tesla's stranger ideas for decades? If these tesla technologies are all so efficient and would be the perfect solution to the energy crisis, then are you saying there's a vast international science conspiracy?

[usbiker133t]

boo ya scotty!!! but this doesn't apply here lol. i just root for any trek quote:)

[WolYou]

If mass influences space-time, what kind of space-time is he talking about, when the universe was supposedly "as big as a golf ball"? In such an environment there wouldn't be anything like the space-time we know . Seconds and millimeters are not applicable anymore.

[theinquisitor]

I think it's like a density comparison. The universe was so dense back then that it was as if the visible universe had been put into a golf ball size. I think it's more useful to talk about the density and temperatures at these times. Since he said space is infinite, the idea that it can shrink to a finite size is odd. I'm not sure when time and space break down, but I think it's when the universe gets somewhere near the planck length in size, then all our theories of physics go nuts.

[ocanter]

It's a good lecture, but why does he keep implying that Gamov invented the big bang theory all by himself? His work was important, to be sure, but Muller makes it sound like Gamov invented the whole thing.

[fabbio8888]

..predicted and.. discovered to be 20 times smaller.

Other theories predicted the radiation too but someone decided that BB had to be the winner.

Because it's creationist AS WELL.

So now we have to create dark energy, dark matter, black holes, inflation, ALL OF THEM STILL UNPROVEN, but it seems BB cannot be crticized.

Yes, if you do you are a creationist.

But BB is creationist as well, that's so sick!

[cooltheory]

spot on fab, then what is the kafuffle about hey? who ever immortalized this cool lecture on utube is a legend (as is the lecturer) peace

[fabbio8888]

I can agree he is a legend. I debate on what he sais not on what he is.

[cooltheory]

k  .

[ToxeCryz]

Black Holes have been Proven

[fabbio8888]

Oh yeah? By who?

There are just evidences but no proves. Evidences of course can be caused bu something else than black holes. If you deny this, the debate is useless.

[zenkonami]

What a wonderfully clear lecture by Prof Muller. Breaking these to YouTube is a tremendous use of the medium and certainly vital to my continuing education. Looking forward to more.

[DrLsw]

yea show me.

 i dont wanna start an argument but y dont schools teach creationism and evolution instead of evolution? or jus neither of them

[theinquisitor]

Well where to start. For a start, creationism isn't science, so the idea that it should be taught in science class is absurd. It could be taught in a religious studies class, but it just isn't science.

Obviously these comments are too short to go into sufficient detail. I'll send you a PM with some links to relevant documentaries.

[DrLsw]

why do scientists believe in evolution and the big bang theory but yet still teach that life can only come from life and technology is "Human innovation in action that involves the generation of knowledge and processes to develop systems that solve problems and extend human capabilities" Gottlieb Daimler or Karl Benz built the first car design we use today thery were engineers i doubt they believed in the big bang theory and evolution

[theinquisitor]

The point is that the evolutionary theory, and the engineering theories that go into car design, are both determined using the same method, the scientific method. Science is a process of investigation and getting information about the world from the world. It's about evidence.

Do you want to see the evidence for the fact that all life descended from a single ancestor?

[majorvoltage]

"Do you want to see the evidence for the fact that all life descended from a single ancestor?"

I guess he didn't. Evidence makes baby Jesus cry :'(

[DrLsw]

its false the big bang is stupid but at least its not as stupid as evolution

[theinquisitor]

So if you think the scientific method is so useless, why do you confidently use the products of science, ie technology? You presumably get into cars and elevators that were designed by scientists, the same kind of stupid scientists who came up with evolution. Why do you believe in technology, but not science?

[Sarastarlight]

Interesting. Informative. Thank you for posting.

[DoorwayToHeaven]

This is like religion, mysticism, card tricks, and snake oil, all rolled into one, and what do they have in common? Faith and the suspension of reason by the gullible.

Out of gazillions of cosmic rays, these guys find 11 that point at the Earth--Proof of the big bang!!! snore...zzzz

And look at that cute little diagram; now pretend kiddies, these circles are gallaxies....When I move the paper, they move!!! ooohhhh awwhhhh!!!

This is snake oil, folks. The big bang is a myth.

[DVDjHex]

The predictions of the big bang theory are not allowed by observation without the introduction of free-parameters, artifice, bunk, whatever you want to call it: commonly known as Dark Energy and Dark Matter (with capital letters to make it superior to man). That is, without DE and DM the BBT predictions fail miserably. It is a shame that BB cosmology has to resort to metaphysics to justify itself.

[DVDjHex]

Much work still needs to be done before a shift away from the standard model takes place, as is usually the case when an idea is held-on to like a religion (where the big band is god and inflation is its prophet).

[theinquisitor]

I think that's a bit of an overstatement. Any good scientist would be delighted to hear a theory that makes better predictions. Where the research money goes is usually dependant on the consensus, but for good reason.

I think you can understand my skepticism. Is there any empirical verification of this cold creation? Sounds like it's might have a basis that's about as solid as the one for string theory, very wobbly.

[theinquisitor]

How can you say it's like a religion? As far as I know it's what fits the observations best. If you present evidence that it's wrong, no scientists is going to just insist it isn't so like some theist would. Do you think we could have gotten this far with that kind of attitude? I'd be fascinated to learn the big bang wasn't the way it happened. I just want to know the truth no matter what it is.

[DVDjHex]

The Coldcreation Theory is not found at the art gallery web page (only a short paragraph about it). The text you did find is a short version of the concept (without maths). If you're interested you can also read some of the forum material on the CC theory. Note, this only the beginning stages of the new cosmology.

[DVDjHex]

The fact is, we cannot see galaxies moving, in any direction. We cannot see the universe expanding. We see redshift z. The mainstream interpretation of that change in the spectrum is what needs to be discarded. BTW, the BB theory originally predicted 20 K, not the observed 2.7 K thermal blackbody radiation. Now, it predicts 96% of the universe is made of kooky energy and 'dark' matter. LOL

[brkrsy]

AAzK you are an idiot. Scientists also know this too.

[nitesco]

haha

[AAzK]

rofl, people dont even know what life is at the very bottom of the ocean, yet scientists claim they know what happened 14 billion years ago, give me a fking break.

[theinquisitor]

It's true that we don't know about life at the bottom of the ocean, but that doesn't change the fact that we can SEE the galaxies moving away from us. We can see the expansion of the universe happening right now. The microwave background radiation is exactly what you'd it to be after 14 billion years of cooling. The only reason we know this is because the light coming to us from the universe itself is telling us. Is the light lying?

[DVDjHex]

The fact is, we cannot see galaxies moving, in any direction. We cannot see the universe expanding. We see redshift z. The mainstream interpretation of that change in the spectrum is what needs to be discarded. BTW, the BB theory originally predicted 20 K, not the observed 2.7 K thermal blackbody radiation. Now, it predicts 96% of the universe is made of kooky energy and 'dark' matter. LOL

[theinquisitor]

Okay so are you going to give me your interpretation of the evidence or just laugh at it like a creationist would?

[DVDjHex]

The interpretation can be found with a simple search of the exact phrase: Coldcreation Theory.

There are scientist too who laugh at the bb theory, but it is no laughing matter. A new cosmology is required. The bb theory simply does not work (it breaks down near t = 0, expansion seems to accelerate, and 96% of the universe is made of "dark" bunk).

[theinquisitor]

Okay I found something, and had a skim through it. It gave me a bit of a headache. I have to admit it's a bit beyond me, so I can't really evaluate it, although it did seem fairly unsubstantiated.

Has this been presented to the scientific community for peer review? Are there any scientists working on this theory or is it just this one paper so far?

[theinquisitor]

Also sorry for being flippant with you, but I get a lot of people throwing pseudo-science at me, and you were quite vague about it. The paper I found seems too complicated to be pseduo-science so I'm fairly sure it's at least a reasonable hypothesis. I'd be interested to hear a discussion about this between people who know more than I do.

[theinquisitor]

I know of a few youtubers who are much more knowledgable about physics than I am who might be better equipped for a discussion of this detail.

[theinquisitor]

This is all just fishy though. I mean why is this theory only found in an art gallery?

[itscameron]

me too its such an amazing mystery earth life and space is absolutely amazing.

[jerakahol]

this stuff is so interesting! i love these lectures!