"Check out my YouTube channel/playlists and websites for present-truth materials, Three Angels' Messages and God's last-mercy warning to His people in these last days.
Papacy = Antichrist / Little Horn / Beast from the Sea
Roman Catholicism = Whore of Babylon
Investigative Judgement has commenced in 1844 (1st Angel's Message)
Ellen G. White, 1827-1915 = End-time Prophet Sent of God
7th-day Sabbath = Seal of God
Sunday Worship to be Enforced as Mark of the Beast"
Catholicism teaches that, with grace, i.e., by God's supernatural help(grace), God can move our FREE WILL to embrace the Truth. This is an "internal" Justifcation. Luther's said that We are saved by the Cross alone. Catholics hold that we co-operate in Justification. We can reject God's grace & lose our Faith. We become Christlike internally. "God has shone in our hearts, that we might make known the glory of God ..This treasure we possess in earthen vessels" (2 Cor 4:6f). So Faith is pure gift!
@watchful38 Hi. I am in the process of becoming Catholic. I just wanted to say that I have never seen anyone use this type of statement about free will and justification. It gave me a much better understanding of what I have already come to believe, as a former anti-Catholic Christian. Thanks and may God richly bless you!
God damned catholics. There is no pardon for all the sufferings of your medieval inquisition. The blood of the martyrs cries for revenge for many centuries. If you are a catholic, you will share from the cup of God's wrath together with your predecessor!
And be sure that no Mary and no other saint will help you. And be sure that you'll go to hell if you don't repent. And no money, and no connections will redeem you from eternal fire.
Romans 5:11 we have now received the atonement. Salvation is NOW!!! The moment we believe in Jesus we get it. Ephesians 1:13. John 5:25. John 5:9. John 3:16. doesn't say might have or will have but have (present tense) everlasting life!
Salvation is not a process. But a singular event. John 3:36 he that believeth on the son hath (present tense) everlasting life. 2 Corinthians 6:2. Now (present tense) is the accepted time. John 5:24 instantaneous salvation. God wants us to know we are saved. 1 John 5:13. We wouldn't know that we had eternal life presently if it were a process. We would only hope that we would make it. I know I have eternal life right now and will always have it. Psalm 23:6. John 6:47. continue...
@jacksmack77 We do have eternal life NOW. However we deepen our Faith during our lives. Benedict XVl explains Hebrews 11:1. "Faith is the substance(reality) of things hoped for." In Heaven we will have the fulness of eternal life. "Faith is the act of the intellect when it assents to Divine Truth under the influence of the will moved by God through grace." This is OUR act but only with God's grace. Luther believed only in Jesus' act, we are too corrupt to act. His is an extrinsic salvation! Con
Well for me, I think that people my age are sort of hesitant with joining a church especially if they're like me and were not an avid church goer as a child. It's so confusing because you're taught what you're taught as a child, and your entire family is baptist but you're seguing into finding out more about catholicism and considering joing another church. It's like learning a whole religion all over again.
Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins. He was buried and rose again for you. He saves a person from hell the moment they believe on him for the free gift of eternal life.
We are saved by God’s grace through faith alone in Christ alone.
@jacksmack77 - No where in Scripture does it say we are saved through faith ALONE. Martin Luther added that word to Scripture to justify (no pun intended) his rejection of the need for confession to forgive his repeatedly falling into sexual sin.
Salvation is a process, not a one time event that can't be lost:
such brandings were less effective against prots,inorder to fulfill the prophecy of Jesus-"i shall build my church(protestant) on this rock(the revelation given to apostle peter that Jesus is the only eternal son of almighty God,not the degrading dead body of peter buried under vatican as catholics claim/believe)and gates of hell(catholicism and oter false religions/ideologies) will not prevail over it".
Also note that throughout the centuries catholics branded(and still branding) all these groups as dualistic pagans heretics who need to be wiped out from face of earth...
In rapture believers will be taken and hypocrites left behind to face great tribulation(such as never happened before or never will in the future) which will last for 7 years.In the half of this 7 year period antichrist will break his agreement with jews and put up the awful horror inthe holy temple.He will require all to have number 666 imprinted on them to buy or sell.Those who get this mark of 666 are damned for eternal hell
The 3rd temple will be rebuilt in jerusalem and it shall be called "the house of prayer for people of all nations" exactly as Jesus predicted nearly 2000 years ago.Anilmal and other sacrifices will be offered there in the rememberance of the ultimate sacrifice ofJesus Christ on the cross,just as it symbolized the coming sacrifice of christ in the old testament period..This will remain till coming of christ ( rapture)
They revolted and it came to be known as protestant revolution and were led by many great leaders like jan hus,jan zizka,martin luther,ulrich zwigli,john calvin,john knox,john wesley and many others .Today protestants number more than 800 million .
In future (after the soon coming WW3) they will unite as single god's church and all people living on earth will be it's members.
Cathars were wiped out in the 12th centutry by catholic crusaders~a mass murder popularly called as cathar/albinesian crusade (catholic church still take great pride in these crusades) .But italian waldensians continued inspite of severe catholic persecution and they remain to this day .
By 15th century printing was invented and bible became available to masses . They came to know about truth that catholic church was doing idolatry in the name of god .
.Both these groups came under heavy persecution from catholics because they dared to expose the truth of christ to them.Finally they were wiped out by catholic crusaders in 12th century .
But almost simultaneously spirit of god started 2 new christian movem ents in heart of catholicism itself~in italy and france . In italy they were called waldensians and in france they were called cathars
But few like followers of mani ~ Manichean's (mani was a 2nd century apostle of jesus whose followers spread from persia to balkans in the west and to china in the east,before falling into oblivion probably because of islamic conquest) remained true to the gospel of christ.
Later they spread to turkey and balkans where they were called paulicians and bogomils respectively.They were behind the iconoclastic movement hich i have mentioned above.
Thus when constantine made christianity the state religion ,idolatry also entered along with it in the unsuspecting name of "intercession to saints".This soon spread to most of the church,because such was the influence of roman empire at that time.
So they changed the names of their old idols to "christian" ones and started praying to them . This came to be known as "intercession to saints" and is still practiced by catholic and orthodox "christians".True christians like aryan christians,donatists manichaens oppsed this practice,but catholics branded them heretics and massacred them.. Iconoclastic movement of 7th century was against this practice, later protestant revolution (15-16th century) was waged mainly against this practice.
@alrok777 Lucifer and his hordes of fallen angels also were against God for creating man in His Own image and likeness. He would not have man lifted up to the likeness of God.Man was created out of the Love of God.So they became heretics and fought against God. Know what? they werecast out of Heaven by Micheal the Archangel and his hordes of good angels. Now in the 21st century Lucifer ( like what mentioned protestants ) are waging against MAN and GOD.
This caused the decline of true christianity.In the same fashion catholics branded other groups as heretics like donatists,manichaens,paulician s,bogomils,cathars,waldensians and finally protestants.
When constantine made christianity the official religion of roman empire, majority in his empire was still pagan and they found it hard to forgo of their old idolatrous practices.
But soon other germanic people goths,vandals conquered Italy spain etc and spread true christianity in those regions.It was the eastern goths(ostrogoths) who founded the nation of Italy as a true aryan christian nation.But through the council of nicae roman catholics spread lies about aryan christians,claiming that they believed Jesus was a created being and branded them heretics,when in reality they only taught that God the father was superior to son Jesus which is infact 100% biblical
They were known as aryan christians who rejected this idolatrous practice of intercession to saints.Most of the germanic people except the franks initially accepted true aryan christianity instead of catholicism which was corrupted by idolatry.It was 100s of years after that these groups became catholics.Romans at that time gave special previlages to franks for accepting the corrupted catholic religion.
Later in 4th century constantine the roman emperor made christianity the official religion of roman empire.Through the edict of milan and thessalonica and council of nicae what they did was not toleration for christianity,but to create a new fake religion in the name of Jesus,in which they integrated the ancient roman idolatry as the practice of intercession to saints.Many christians at that time were against this
Protestant revolution was not the origin of protestantism.The first protestant church was the apostolic church. (the church depicted in new testament do not pray to "saints" or use statues\images in prayer worship.) Thus it was protestant in essence.
today there is a lot of negativity about catholics in the media. it's too bad, but the truth hurts. but know one thing, the truth does not hurt as much as all the little boys that your holy catholic priests fucked in the asshole. catholics disgust me. you guys are some oily fuckers. and most catholic women cant even cook! I know this one catholic bitch that damn near poisoned me with her baked chicken dinner. the meat wasn't even cooked that much on the inside and just wanted to barf.
Calling the crasmatic movement a fad thats really funny hippies pet rock where fads Catholic Charismatic Renewal exists in over 230 countries in the world, having touched over 119 million members [ and a total of 500,000 christens talk in tongues this fad is coming to your local church
The RCC has revivals, though not the Pentecostal brand, which is really based on emotion.
The reason it has spread in African countries is that many of the people groups came from a religion based on the supernatural. They are drawn to Pentecostalism based on this.
First a true revival is a powerful move of god on the soul .its not invading a country and killing all that do not convert and calling it a revival that’s not revival or conversion
@baldonebear on your page you said I am a former Protestant Pastor who is now proud to be Catholic.there are 2 resones i see that 905 OF THE Converts to rcc is studyd to find truth and gave up .wanting some one to do it for them 80%
the other 20% do it becaues fallen man loves traditions and rituals thinking there mind will get into a state sad very sad
@baldonebear . I could care less why you go to another Babylonian church I just assume you’re a fool. but I was being nice about the reasons why people do. Its hard to understand why some one would become a rc with all there antibible teachings .
@baldonebear god always has a reminit but no on one has all truth . if they did they would be as jesus is . its for the glory of god to hide a thing and the glory of kings to find a thing out ot has 45 mysterys nt has 26 mysterys to find out the rcc has zero mystrys figuerd out
@baldonebear none thats the point gods word says tudy to show your self aproved a workmen that need not be ashamed rightly deviding the word of truth . only the word has truth not man . the word of truth
@beingther Why is it so hard to believe that the Holy Ghost moved these people to join the RCC. I've heard the argument that it's our duty to study the Scriptures. Only for about a century was the common man educated to be able to read. Before that, how was the common man to study the Scriptures. Remember the Ethiopian eunich in the Book of Acts? "How can understand this unless someone teach me?"
@backwoodsninja hard to believe ? no imposable ! the hol;y spirit does not lead anyone to untruths only to truth . so it imposal for the holy spirit to lead to all truth and to rcc. > i never said one can not be tought by others even jeus had teachers . but the holy spirit leads to all truth .ethiopian had the word o i thought only the rcc had the bible so your saying others had the bible so the rcc did not give it to the world. funny 1
@beingther Now you're putting words in my mouth and you're unfamiliar with the story. The Ethiopian did not have a "Bible." He had a copy of the writings of Isaia. I wonder where the Holy Ghost was during the centuries prior to the Reformation. Was there no Gospel being preached? Were there no true Christians? Please tell me, if the Catholic Church is full of lies, is there a church preaching the real truth or should I just sleep in on Sunday?
@backwoodsninja god has always had a reminit . waclif oragin
zwigly hume atabaptists 1,000s even in the dark days there was a people of god there has always a remint that know truth even some rc tearsa of avilon john of the cross there is a remnitn in all denominations jesus only had 12 . thats the problem we sleep on sunday we should be studdying the word of god to show are self aproved
@beingther Studying the word of God would have been a real problem for the common man prior to the 19th century. Up until then, the average person was not taught how to read. They relied on the teachings of the Church that were handed down through the ages.
@beingther When did the RCC "ban" the Bible? Of course they didn't let people take the Bible home with them back in the 1600's. Books were highly valuable because they had to be hand copied. And the average peasant was unable to read it anyway. Do you think there have always been Christian book stores where you could just go buy a Bible for ten dollars?
@beingther There have always been colleges even back to the Greek and Roman societies. But education was not something that was offered to everyone until fairly recently. I did not say that no one could read. And I think you know that. Prior to governement-run public education, a fairly recent concept in human history, only the wealthy could afford to send their children to school or have them educated privately.
@beingther If no one has the truth, then you are just as lost as the rest of us. God always has a remnant? How do you know you are in the remnant? Perhaps you fell in with a crowd that had just another misunderstanding of the truth. If no one has the truth, then why are we even debating? We're all lost!!
@backwoodsninja if we had the fullness of the truth we would be as christ doing the works and greater. no one i know has all truth but we die in the hope . having faith no small group has truth. we study to show are selfs aproved . its called faith . god hides his truth . its not for every one . how do we study look up meanings of the names =denote the nature
@beingther The only flaw there is that so many modern day preachers and every day Christians study the word, yet so many come up with so many differing interpretations. So if the truth is hidden, then it'd be quite difficult if not impossible to know which interpretation is correct. We're all just grasping at straws hoping we get it right.
@backwoodsninja thats my point there has been over 300 popes and all have been exatly right . ya right !!! o ok. you just proved the point that the popes are fales teachers
@beingther you really need to read up on history before you start giving incorrect information. The current Pope is the 265th pope, there have not been over 300 popes.
@beingther You made a false statement about the number of popes and your response is "o sorry that makes it all better 266 o ok". 1. your response is pretty childish 2. by your carefree propagation of false information it seems that you dont care much for truth, regardless of the subject matter.
If your going to make a statement you should make sure it is accurate before you make it. If you give false information regarding the number of popes, one has to question everything else you say.
@carthage397 sorry sir i didnt know you where the pope police . i dont care if there is 10 or 1000 point is the rcc gose agianst and teaches agianst the word the bible
@beingther "the pope police?" seriously man your really discrediting yourself with your childish comments.
Again if your gonna make a comment make sure its accurate before you say it. Please show me from the official teachings of the Catholic Church something that contradicts scripture. If you cant produce evidence to support your claim that the teachings of the Catholic Church is contrary to scripture then be quiet.
@carthage397 Rcc official stand on mary is she is queen of heaven if you study jer 1:1-20 youll see that this is a demon Jer 44:18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all [things], and have been consumed by the sword and by the famineand this is only one out of 1000s
@beingther Secondly by what you say you have no understanding of the doctrine of papal infallibility. The pope is a human therefore he sins, not everything he says or does is right. When the pope speaks on matters of doctrine in communion with the magisterium he is guided by the Holy Spirit and those teachings on doctrine are infallible or without error.
@carthage397 guided by the Holy Spirit . and saying and writtings by the holy spirit are 2 differant things . a song can be guided by the spiorit the word of god is written by the spirit . but you see it not for you are carnal
@beingther "you see it not for you are carnal" you are making a definite statement about me being of the flesh when all you can base this assumption on is a few exchanges of words on youtube? Talk about spiritual pride and false judgment! How do you make this assumption when all i have talked about are the things of God? Secondly you are dwelling on words (inspired vs guided) when you know what i mean, in order to circumvent the topic at hand because you dont have a proper answer for it.
@beingther Just how God used imperfect, sinful men to write a perfect infallible book, the bible, he also uses imperfect, sinful men (the popes) to teach perfect Christian doctrines and teachings.
Before you say ignorant things and make yourself look silly you should do you research and be honest with yourself. Put away your misguided biases and find out with that the Church really teaches......and not what you want it to teach.
@carthage397 Just how God used imperfect, sinful men to write a perfect infallible book?
just like he did john isha mosses ezeciel he took them into the spirit and they put down what they seen . i know its to deep for a rc to understand but its true .
@beingther what is your question? yes.....God used the various prophets, apostles and disciples as instruments to write the bible (ex. Moses, Isaiah, King David, Luke, Paul, Paul...etc). These were all sinful, imperfect men who God used as scribes to write the perfect, infallible book we call the Bible.
@beingther " its to deep for a rc to understand "....dont throw stones if you live in a glass house. The Catholic Church has produced so many works of theology, philosophy, science, etc. The Church founded the university system, made huge leaps in astronomy, biology, physics, the arts.....the lists goes on and on.
What have the evangelicals contributed to society? Denying that dinosaurs existed or slandering other religions. When it comes to this department you really shouldnt talk.
It is wonderful to see people entering the Catholic Church. We have to follow what God is calling us to do, God knows what is best for us. Catholicism isn't true because I or anyone else believes it, we believe it because its true. The Catholic faith is the fullness of truth. God bless †
@ComeHomeCatholics just Wondering why did pope john agree with the tongue talking movement
(being baptized in the holy ghost ) if they had all truth why didnt they now this 1500years ago if its a lie why did john do it for who really has all truth rcc or not
I converted from Calvinizm to Catholicism because our Savior, Jesus Christ is with the Catholic Church. This is the truth and undeniable. If you are ouside the Catholic Chuch and denounce the Catholic faith, it is apparent that you just envy the Catholic Church. No matter how hard you try to criticize the Catholic Church, it will be the main stream of Christianity eternally as it has been since the very time of its foundation by the hand of Jesus Christ.
Funny you dont remember the one pope in Constantinople and the pope in roman .all Romans said he was pope. and all Constantinople said there pope was pope. so who became pope the one with the biggest army
beingther, it seems like you are trying to avoid the obvious argument. there can be 10 guys who say they are the REAL beingther but their claim to be you doesnt make their claims any more valid. ill take it one step further, beingther 1, beingther 2 and beingther 3 can all have supporters that says they are the real beingther......again this support doesnt make any one of the beingthers more valid. you seem to ignore this very obvious logic and continue to cite irrelevant examples.
Tell me what would be my reason for pretending to be only one person is so silly saying im 10 people, I mean there is not point to convince you . I am dyslectic it takes me 3 time more time to type the it does for you so I dont wast time explaining something that is so stupid and total was of time
I was trying to make an example so you could understand that just because someone claims to be someone and a group of people support that person......that doesnt make that person's claim any more true. I am sorry you struggle with dyslexia, i will pray for you. Take care.
correction.....at one time there was 1 pope and 3 guys who said they were pope. There is actually some guy in the present day in the midwest U.S. who calls himself Pope Michael, he dresses up in papal vestments and says hes the true pope. Does that make him a 2nd pope? No, just some fool who likes to dress up. If you dress up like a police captain it doesn't make you one. Also please present the proof that the most wealthy "pope" won. thank you
beingther please show me a Catholic website which says there were 4 legitimate popes at one time. There has always been 1 legit Pope at every time since the first pope, Peter. There has been impostors who say they are the pope but like i said before this doesn't make them Pope. Also you cant just make some claim without backing it up with legit proof. I give you an explanation to support my position, you cant just make a claim and not support it with further information.
You're full of it. There have never been four popes at once. At one time there were THREE men ALL CLAIMING TO BE POPE. That was from 1408 to 1415. Only one of them was actually pope.
Today there are over a dozen men claiming to be pope. Only one man is the pope - Pope Benedict XVI. I suggest you read good books so you don't embarrass yourself like this.
Yes 3 popes sorry I thought there was only 4 ya 3 that makes it a lot better now the one that got to be pope was the one that paid the bigger bribe to the cardinals. o ok thats good enough for me. I would fallow him too
Jesus and his followers were persecuted for a lot of reasons but never for hurting anyone, killing anyone or enforcing the Gospel with a sword.
As far as protestants and Martin Luther go, did you know that as long as I have been a protestant, I never heard the name of Martin Luther in church? My church only preaches Jesus through scripture...no one else. If that is evil, then let me be wicked for Jesus.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 states that scripture is sufficient. Do I really NEED any other?
this last statement you wrote about your church...in all respect and i mean that.....your church is a church started by a sinful man with flawed teachings that do not reflect in worship practices or belief the mind and soul of the Early Church. Your Church may say many true things but it is lacking because it is not Jesus' Church, it is a church of man. History shows that Jesus founded the Catholic Church. Theres gonna be wicked followers but that doesnt invalidate his Church.
And in regards to the default protestant argument using 2 Timothy....you are taking it out of context. At the time 2 Timothy was written the bible wasnt compiled yet, revelation wasnt written yet. Paul was taking about the Old Testament, not the total 73 book bible, so if Paul meant that statement how you interpret it then the New Testament isnt necessary. Also that verse says that scripture equips one for good works......not salvation, you arent saved by works but a faith working in love.
blakdak again please stop focusing on bad people because this argument isnt an argument. I dont argue about bad Protestants ( i only did so as a response to your arguments about bad Catholics). If you want to talk truth and doctrine and history im all for it but if you keep on the bad Catholics (which isnt an argument) then i have too much to do to continue with this argument. Read the Mass of the Early Christians by Mike Aqualina and Faith of the Early Fathers by William A Jurgens Take care man
"Never splintered for 2000 years"? What about the great schism of 1377-1417? There were at least 2 claiming to be Pope at the same time.
The issue that I have with the Catholic church (as I discussed with Carthage) is that Jesus' church (if it is Catholic) is responsible for so much death and blood shed; so many gruesome acts in the death of non-Catholic christians.....it's hard to believe that the Catholic church has anything to do with Jesus at that point.
in response to this so called great schism. the only great schism was with the orthodox in 1054. The 2 men who were claiming to be Pope in the 14th/15th centuries were imposter who weiled political power in order to try to hold power. There is always 1 pope at a time.....in this particular time there were 2 guys who said they were pope but werent. To dress up like a bishop and say you are a bishop doesn't make you a bishop.
Pentecostals like to dress up like bishops now that doesnt make them bishops. Also with your statement saying the Catholic Church is responsible for so much death and blood shed is so false. What are you talking about the inquisition, where about 3000 people died in 500 years, and may i remind you this was a joint effort from some Catholics and mainly political powers.
So in its 2000 year history members of the Catholic Church (not the Church as a whole) have been responsible for a small amount of killing and tourture. If interesting how you are obsessed with the bad historical things but you havent mentioned at all, all the good the Catholic Church has done. It is the largest providers of social services in the world, runs more hospitals and schools then any government orgainzation, has built western civilization
blakdak, it seems that you are looking at the history of the Catholic Church through a very bias lense and focusing only on the human failings of its members but never acknowledging the great things the Church has done and continues to do. Again Jesus had disciples who betrayed him, by your understanding and focus on people's fallings Jesus must have made a mistake and his followers must be all corrupt.
.........based on a new doctrine NOT found clearly in scripture is what I am referring to. I interpret that as........"do what we say and believe what we tell you without question or you are condemned".
Carthage says that Anathema means excomunicated. I have read where is means cursed. Either or is irrelevant. Jesus says "I am the way, the truth and the life"; not His mother. So later doctrines aside.....Jesus is my savior and myself (or anyone) doesn't like being told that my salvation is based on a new doctrine.
Anathema is used a curse in pre-christian faiths. within the context of the Church it is the same as excommunication. Also the Church never said do what we say or be condemned. Christ established the Catholic Church and the holy spirit is guiding it. The Spirit leads the Church into truth and the church discloses this truth to the people and condemns heretics who are trying to lead the sheep astray.
The church fathers, while adequately copying the scriptures, doesn't mean their traditions were accurate regarding the church. Did any of the church fathers meet, walk, talk and know Jesus personally or was their input after the Apostles time?
ok im back, in regards yo you saying the church fathers copied the scripture but that doesnt mean their traditions were correct. If your going to question the oral tradition which is interwoven with the liturgical worship and the written scripture itself then whos to say they copied the scriptures adequacy? The Church was founded by Christ, its his Church, he said the holy spirit will be with the Church and lead it to ALL TRUTH. you are forgetting God's supernatural hand in all this
if the church was just a bunch of unguided men then i would question the validity of the teachings as well as the holy bible that they compiled preserved for 2000 years but its not just a bunch of unguided men, its guided by the power of the Holy Spirit so it wont fall into error in matters of teaching. Whos to say the writers of the New Testament were correct when they wrote the books? The Holy Spirit was guiding them, there is a supernatural element here and this applies to Jesus' Church also.
Martin Luther (and any others) never preached themselves into absolute authority over Christian converts so if a Protestant didn't feel as if their leader was competent, they had an option to disregard that leader without the consequence of death, torture or imprisonment.
Answering you statment about protestant s never saying they were an absolute authority. Classical protestantism rejects authority so they wouldnt do that but becuase of lack of leadership you have a crazy amount of division and heretical teachings. Also with these references you keep bringing up on death and torture. When leaders of any organization couple themselves with political power their corruption and oppresion are sure to follow.
This goes to the poster: Rose. I was looking for your comment to reply but couldn't find it anymore. You asked something regarding the issue Protestants have with Mary. I will only speak for myself on this matter. I honor everyone who has accepted Jesus as their Savior and thus, that includes Mary. My issue is that November 1, 1950, I was informed by Pope Pius XII that if I didn't accept that Mary was assumed into Heaven, I was considered Anathema.
oh also i just noticed i missed some of your comments because youtube groups them strangly when there is alot so any questions i didnt answer please let me know and ill try to get you an answer in a timely fashion, take care.
Carthage; I just finished watching the video by Scott Hahn re: Common Objections to the Pope. He's good with his research and delivery. Problem: he mentioned how the 'office' of the Apostles needed to be replaced after Judas by Matthias. He didn't quote the rest of that situation where Matthias wasn't chosen by simple vote or laying on of hands. He had to qualify which included being with the Apostles themselves during the time of Jesus' ministry. Of all, only 2 men qualified; Acts.1:21-26.
Oh yeah!!!! There WAS another point I wanted to touch on. In secular and Christian history, we have many incidents listed where Catholic Christians killed other Christians who were not Catholic. It's one thing to defend yourself against an invading enemy. It's something else to wipe out nearly entire peoples (Waldenses, Albigenses, etc.) prior to the reformation of Luther simply because they believe in Jesus and do so without a Pope. What is your commentary on these things?
.....they were carried out by secular leaders. what it all boils down to is killing is wrong and people (religious or not) should have handled these problems differently. The bad actions and judgments of Catholics do not reflect the teachings of the Church. This again is a example of Christians not living up to the expectations of their respected offices, this does not dissolve the office of the Church.
The teaching of the Catholic church, especially during the councils, put out 'anathemas' (curses) to anyone who did not believe in their doctrine (that is, the doctrine beyond scripture).
The biggest problem in this I see is that when you have a hiarchy system like you do in the Catholic church, one man can indeed lead millions astray. Example; if YOU Carthage were to scriptually disagree with the Pope on an issue (and you happen to be right), what is your method to correct the Pope?
in the early Church the word Anathema was synonymous with excommunication not curse. it was used to excommunicate heretics and their dangerous teachings. The people who taught that Jesus was not God (arians) and that the physical body was evil (gnostics) were excommunicated for heresy. It was not a power trip by the Church to kick out everyone who didnt agree with them but to condemn false teaching that would threaten the unity and salvation of Christians
if the bad action of the Christian leader invalidated the office of the Church then the Christian religion would have ended with Judas' betrayal of Jesus. I hope i answered your questions sufficiently. Some good books i would suggest for you to read are "the mass of the early christians" by mike aquiliana, "the faith of the early fathers" by william jurgens (3 volumes of translated documents of the early church) anything by Dr. Scott Hahn. If you have any other questions please let me know.
In other words, could YOU humble the Pope if he were in the wrong or would it just be another example of you being humbled and made to either agree or leave Catholicism?
It's funny you mentioned Scott Hahn. I was actually just watching a video of his while reading your posts.
For you, have you heard of Richard Bennett, Mike Gendron or Walter Martin? Very powerful speakers. Bennett used to be a Catholic preist himself. Interesting stuff there. Look them up on Youtube!
in response to your statement with me humbling the pope if he was wrong.. History shows that he Bishop of Rome has never taught error as doctrine or dogma. Popes who were corrupted did bad things but they never taught error ex-catherdra (from the authority of the chair of Peter) in the 2000 year history of the Catholic Church. About Stephen 1st he was the first one to use the title Pope, that doesnt mean the papacy didnt exist before him.
What happens to the Christians who followed the evil Popes blindly believing that they were true men of God? How can they be blamed for completely following the Vicar of Christ Himself?
Final thought and then I will hand it over to you. I have heard this but have no confirmation yet. Did the Catholic church omit the 2nd of the 10 Commandments? If so, why? If not, I apologize. This is something I am still researching.
Christians following the bad Popes: These popes were bad because of what the did not due to what they taught. A Pope has never taught false doctrine authoritatively. They have done evil things but never changed doctrine or made up doctrine. Christians arent held accountable for the sins of their shepherds. If my pastor is a pervert and molests children that doesnt affect my relationship with Christ, nor does it invalidate the sacraments.
Vicar of Christ is a big title for a man to carry. Christ's replacement on Earth tells me that in the previous situation, it is indeed Christ himself telling me to kill these other Christians and defend the faith. However, we both already know that Christ does not allow killing in his name as we learned with Peter when the soldiers came to arrest Jesus. So how could the Vicar of Christ order Christians to kill other Christians just for not recognizing His earthly replacement?
the Catholic Church didnt omit the 2nd commandment. Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox, and Jews group the 10 commandments from Exodus 20 differently. There is a good table from the wikipedia article on the 10 commandments that shows the different groupings. As for the inquisitions. Catholic as well as Orthodox Christians tried and executed people for spreading heretical beliefs, it wasnt just for their denial of the Pope. Sometimes these trials were done by Church officals, but many times.....
I understand what you are saying regarding the Popes and their personal sin vs. what they taught as scripture. However, there are too many Catholics (not nearly as educated as you are) who truly worhship the Pope and regard everything he says as scripture and from the mouth of God.
In what ways is the Pope (and indeed the entire Roman Catholic organization) teaching people that the Pope is still a fallible man in need of prayer and salvation like everyone else?
in response to Catholics who worship the Pope. I assure you from being a Catholic my whole life and going to hundreds of different Churches and meeting ignorant Catholics as well as intelligent Catholics, no one worships the Pope or even has a notion of this. This is a fabricated lie invented by opponents of the Church. you can go to the most un-educated person in the poorest country and they will be confused by this accusation, its so far out, its not even in a Catholics mind.
I respectfully ask please not to refer to the Church as the "Roman Catholic Organization", its the Catholic Church. Roman Catholic is just 1 of the 22 rites in the Catholic Church, the Latin Rite. Pick up the Cathechism of the Catholic Church if you would like to know what the Church truely teaches, its about $8. The Church has always taught that the Pope is is a falliable man in need of prayer and salvation.
If there were 1 true Pope since the time of Peter, why didn't Emporer Constantine simply get together with the Pope of the Christian church rather than call all the church Bishops together to settle their differences? Where was The Pope during the Council of Nicea?
I have met and spoken with many Catholics who agree that not all Popes of the Catholic church reside in Heaven. Some were downright evil. Another question; what happens to the Christians who followed the evil Popes......
the doctrine of Papal Primacy like every other Christian doctrine too time to develop and during heavy persecution it was difficult for the Church to get together and talk about these issues. As for 1st Council Council of Nicaea, Constantine wouldnt just meet with the Bishop of Rome and exclude the other bishops because they have a huge amount of authority as well. This particular council was convened to address the Arian heresy which was running rampant in the eastern empire...
Be it Papal Primacy (not much humility in that title), the Marion doctrines, etc. that took time to develop...my question is why? What was the functional use (as a Christian or not) for such doctrines to come along when we already read in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 that all scripture (by A.D. 67) was enough for righteousness in God's sight? Did we need later doctrines that created and supported the Catholic church (only) rather than relying on original scripture?
....so the bishops from all over the Church were needed to discuss these issues. To exclude all the bishops and just talk to the Pope would be like excluding all the apostles and just talking to Peter. Also at the council of Nicaea the pope (then Sylvester 1) sent a papal legate to the council to represent him, which many Pope's did during the time. So the Pope actually did put in his input at the council.
Again, if Constantine wanted to settle the debate regarding the Arian heresy, surely the Vicar of Christ (the Pope) could have made a statement on that very important issue just as Christ would have in His own time among us.
I turn the logic around; why ask hundreds of bishops of something they may argue about for years rather than just ask one person who will settle the matter immediately and bring peace once again to Christendom? A credible answer is 'no papal primacy'.
Although I can see that this issue of the Arian heresy could lead to a need for Papal Primacy in later times.
Yes, there were many good Popes and fewer corrupted Popes in church history. I am only talking about the good Popes who gave the decree to slaughter entire people(s) in the name of Jesus (or their own primacy).
My question is when a good Pope orders good Catholic soldiers (or civil authorities) to kill good Christians who don't observe the Pope...what happens?
now on to your statement about good popes giving the decree to slaughter good Christians who dont observe the pope? Please make a historical citation of this account. Vicar of Christ - This is just another title of the popes position which was appoint by Christ. Jesus gave Peter the authority to head over the Church he founded in Matt 16:13-20 and John 21:15-17. the successors of Peter are filling in that Christ established office until Christ returns at the end of time.
Popes who conducted or ordered torture and executions include: Innocent III, Innocent IV, Gregory IX, Honorius III, Nicolas V, Sixtus IV, Adrian II, Adrian III, Stephen V, Formosus, Boniface VI, Stephen VI, Romanus, Theodore II, John IX, Benedict IV, Leo V and Christopher are just a few. Are these the same Popes on the list of 'corrupt' Popes?
Got a question for you: historically, how does the Catholic church respond to the extermination of the Albigenses, the Waldenses, William Tyndall...
please provide credible sources for these claims. if you can give me with a list of sources that would be great. also to answer your question in general, people religious or not do evil things, this does not invalidate the church or her teachings. One of Jesus 12 apostles betryayed him, peter denied him. does this invalidate the church? No. The Church is a field sowne with weeds and wheat, your gonna have bad leaders as well as followers, this doesnt invalidate the truth the church puts forth
Correct, evil leaders do not invalidate the church in any way. What evil leaders will do is steer an organization the wrong way and without counter-measures on how to deal with this, the entire organization can be doomed. So my question is what the procedures are to correct a Pope in scripture or even in the direction of the church? What if YOU disagreed with the Pope's direction (or theology) and you happened to be right? What do you do? The Apostles had to be corrected at times.
on your question with bad popes, history has shown they have never taught error as doctrine or dogma. some have lived bad lives but have never taught error. The Church is Jesus Christ's hierchy, he established it this way, it is not a democracy where you have human checks and balances. the Holy Spirit is always guiding the church to all truth, He is our check. even though there has been evil Catholics the 3rd person of the trinity has always been there to keep the church on the right track
again your arguments fall on bad people not living up to their faith. Also when an groups has political power there is always the temptation to abuse it. Thats why now Catholic clergy are forbidden to run for office so they stay focused on the gospel and dont get corrupted by politics
i agree there were bad things done in the name of God in the Catholic Church, but there were also bad things done in the name of the God in the many protestant churches. Im sure in your own denomination there were corrupt pastors and lay people who did bad things, but does this invalidate the truths that your church puts forth? No. Are you gonna leave an join a church with no sinners? its impossible because every church has sinners
the Catholic/Orthodox Church are Churches full of sinful, falliable people, lead by sinful and falliable people, but it is guided by the Holy Spirit and it has always taught truth even amongst the midsts of its leaders and followers not living up to their Christian potential. You cant really make an argument against the teachings of the Catholic Church by pointing out its bad members, just like i havent made any arguments against the teachings of protestants based on bad protestants.
The difference between 'bad' Catholics and 'bad' Protestants is that 'bad' Catholics claimed an authority that was enforced by torture, imprisonment or death. Many chose to die which says a lot about those 'bad' Catholics. The 'bad' Protestants were just 'bad' Protestants and did not create an Inquisition to advance their faith(s).
have you ever heard of the Anglican persecutions in England? during the English reformation when a protestant queen was in power the catholics were persecuted, when a catholic queen was in power the protestants were persecuted. what about the purtians with the salem witch trials. Men are failliable and are tempted with political power, what ever group is in power there will always be people in that group abusing the power and persecuting others.
This is my first 'red flag' if you will. The first church that the JW and the Mormons attacked and condemned was the Catholic church. It's pretty sad but all claim to be the middle-man between a sinner and salvation.
Everyone's 'additional scriptures' (Book of Mormon, JW literature, Catholic traditions) lay claim and authority to salvation or condemnation. So for me, all 'additional scriptures' must be highly scrutinized.
also you said the largest "christian churches" have otehr books. the jws, mormons are pretty small 16 million in each group, thats very small incomparision to ohter protestant groups. Also the Catholic Chruch isnt the middle man, IT WAS ESTABLISHED BY THE GOD-MAN. this is how Jesus set it up. you cannot compare some crazy nutty groups from the 19th century with the Church that was scripturally and historically founded by Jesus.
As you said, if the Catholic church was similar to that of an undeveloped baby who over time develops into a mature form (over time the Catholic develops it's doctrine), then Jesus' infant church STILL had to have the full Gospel and all the blessings that accompany it. If not, then Jesus left an incomplete method of salvation (an infant, undeveloped church) that accidentally doomed millions because of it's immaturity.
Only Child Molesters convert to Catholicism!
Catholic stand for:
C = Christians
A = Attacking
T = The
H = Holes
O = Of
L = Little
I = Innocent
C = Children
cadrolls 1 week ago
Luckily for all this people, nobody in the world can UN-baptize themselves... :P
alngsi 5 months ago
CONFIRMATION is that adult personal acknowledgement of our FAITH! It is very important :)
alngsi 5 months ago
I love my Catholic Faith. The Eucharist is the true body of Christ and to have that privilege of sharing in this sacrament is amazing.
nobabe1 7 months ago 3
@nobabe1 What do you think about the catastrophe of the Second Vatican Council?
Jitpring 5 months ago
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"Check out my YouTube channel/playlists and websites for present-truth materials, Three Angels' Messages and God's last-mercy warning to His people in these last days.
Papacy = Antichrist / Little Horn / Beast from the Sea
Roman Catholicism = Whore of Babylon
Investigative Judgement has commenced in 1844 (1st Angel's Message)
Ellen G. White, 1827-1915 = End-time Prophet Sent of God
7th-day Sabbath = Seal of God
Sunday Worship to be Enforced as Mark of the Beast"
SeventhDayRemnant 8 months ago
Catholicism teaches that, with grace, i.e., by God's supernatural help(grace), God can move our FREE WILL to embrace the Truth. This is an "internal" Justifcation. Luther's said that We are saved by the Cross alone. Catholics hold that we co-operate in Justification. We can reject God's grace & lose our Faith. We become Christlike internally. "God has shone in our hearts, that we might make known the glory of God ..This treasure we possess in earthen vessels" (2 Cor 4:6f). So Faith is pure gift!
watchful38 9 months ago
@watchful38 Hi. I am in the process of becoming Catholic. I just wanted to say that I have never seen anyone use this type of statement about free will and justification. It gave me a much better understanding of what I have already come to believe, as a former anti-Catholic Christian. Thanks and may God richly bless you!
Herdewelle 8 months ago
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God damned catholics. There is no pardon for all the sufferings of your medieval inquisition. The blood of the martyrs cries for revenge for many centuries. If you are a catholic, you will share from the cup of God's wrath together with your predecessor!
And be sure that no Mary and no other saint will help you. And be sure that you'll go to hell if you don't repent. And no money, and no connections will redeem you from eternal fire.
It's a good place to say Anathema on you all!
SerJahPhoto 11 months ago
1 John 3:2. Beloved now are we the sons of God...
Romans 5:11 we have now received the atonement. Salvation is NOW!!! The moment we believe in Jesus we get it. Ephesians 1:13. John 5:25. John 5:9. John 3:16. doesn't say might have or will have but have (present tense) everlasting life!
jacksmack77 1 year ago
Salvation is not a process. But a singular event. John 3:36 he that believeth on the son hath (present tense) everlasting life. 2 Corinthians 6:2. Now (present tense) is the accepted time. John 5:24 instantaneous salvation. God wants us to know we are saved. 1 John 5:13. We wouldn't know that we had eternal life presently if it were a process. We would only hope that we would make it. I know I have eternal life right now and will always have it. Psalm 23:6. John 6:47. continue...
jacksmack77 1 year ago
@jacksmack77 We do have eternal life NOW. However we deepen our Faith during our lives. Benedict XVl explains Hebrews 11:1. "Faith is the substance(reality) of things hoped for." In Heaven we will have the fulness of eternal life. "Faith is the act of the intellect when it assents to Divine Truth under the influence of the will moved by God through grace." This is OUR act but only with God's grace. Luther believed only in Jesus' act, we are too corrupt to act. His is an extrinsic salvation! Con
watchful38 9 months ago
Well for me, I think that people my age are sort of hesitant with joining a church especially if they're like me and were not an avid church goer as a child. It's so confusing because you're taught what you're taught as a child, and your entire family is baptist but you're seguing into finding out more about catholicism and considering joing another church. It's like learning a whole religion all over again.
Snoopylovergirl1 1 year ago
Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins. He was buried and rose again for you. He saves a person from hell the moment they believe on him for the free gift of eternal life.
We are saved by God’s grace through faith alone in Christ alone.
Romans 3:23-24.
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
John 3:15.That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
jacksmack77 1 year ago
@jacksmack77 - No where in Scripture does it say we are saved through faith ALONE. Martin Luther added that word to Scripture to justify (no pun intended) his rejection of the need for confession to forgive his repeatedly falling into sexual sin.
Salvation is a process, not a one time event that can't be lost:
Past event -Rom 8:24; Eph 2:5,8; 2 Tim 1:9
Present Event - Phil 2:12; 1 Pet 1:9
Future Event - Mt 10:22 & 24:13; Mk 8:35; acts 15:11; Rom 5:9-10 & 13:11; 1 Cor 3:15 & 5:5; Heb 9:28
pjb1983 1 year ago
@jacksmack77 - Are we justified by faith alone? What does Scripture say about it:
James 2:24 - a man is justified by works and not by faith alone
James 2:26 - faith without works is dead
Phil 2:12 - work out your own salvation with fear and trembling
1 Pet 1:9 - as you attain the goal of your faith, salvation
Gal 5:6 - only thing that counts is faith working in love
Jn 14:15 - If you love me, keep my commandments
Mt 19:16-17 - if you wish to enter into life, keep commandments
pjb1983 1 year ago
@jacksmack77 then why help people that are sick or are in trouble.
TheHusker20 1 month ago
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Have you ever been to the bereanbeacon website?
soulwarrior77 1 year ago
Amen! Praise God!
InTheHeartOfChrist 1 year ago 8
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such brandings were less effective against prots,inorder to fulfill the prophecy of Jesus-"i shall build my church(protestant) on this rock(the revelation given to apostle peter that Jesus is the only eternal son of almighty God,not the degrading dead body of peter buried under vatican as catholics claim/believe)and gates of hell(catholicism and oter false religions/ideologies) will not prevail over it".
alrok777 1 year ago
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Also note that throughout the centuries catholics branded(and still branding) all these groups as dualistic pagans heretics who need to be wiped out from face of earth...
alrok777 1 year ago
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So anybody who happens to be in tribulation period,want salvation he/she has to die as martyrs or get the mark of christ(144,000 people).
I understand catholics will be angered by this, but their anger is in vain because this is the truth and truth will triumph.
alrok777 1 year ago
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In rapture believers will be taken and hypocrites left behind to face great tribulation(such as never happened before or never will in the future) which will last for 7 years.In the half of this 7 year period antichrist will break his agreement with jews and put up the awful horror inthe holy temple.He will require all to have number 666 imprinted on them to buy or sell.Those who get this mark of 666 are damned for eternal hell
alrok777 1 year ago
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The 3rd temple will be rebuilt in jerusalem and it shall be called "the house of prayer for people of all nations" exactly as Jesus predicted nearly 2000 years ago.Anilmal and other sacrifices will be offered there in the rememberance of the ultimate sacrifice ofJesus Christ on the cross,just as it symbolized the coming sacrifice of christ in the old testament period..This will remain till coming of christ ( rapture)
alrok777 1 year ago
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They revolted and it came to be known as protestant revolution and were led by many great leaders like jan hus,jan zizka,martin luther,ulrich zwigli,john calvin,john knox,john wesley and many others .Today protestants number more than 800 million .
In future (after the soon coming WW3) they will unite as single god's church and all people living on earth will be it's members.
alrok777 1 year ago
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Cathars were wiped out in the 12th centutry by catholic crusaders~a mass murder popularly called as cathar/albinesian crusade (catholic church still take great pride in these crusades) .But italian waldensians continued inspite of severe catholic persecution and they remain to this day .
By 15th century printing was invented and bible became available to masses . They came to know about truth that catholic church was doing idolatry in the name of god .
alrok777 1 year ago
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.Both these groups came under heavy persecution from catholics because they dared to expose the truth of christ to them.Finally they were wiped out by catholic crusaders in 12th century .
But almost simultaneously spirit of god started 2 new christian movem ents in heart of catholicism itself~in italy and france . In italy they were called waldensians and in france they were called cathars
alrok777 1 year ago
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But few like followers of mani ~ Manichean's (mani was a 2nd century apostle of jesus whose followers spread from persia to balkans in the west and to china in the east,before falling into oblivion probably because of islamic conquest) remained true to the gospel of christ.
Later they spread to turkey and balkans where they were called paulicians and bogomils respectively.They were behind the iconoclastic movement hich i have mentioned above.
alrok777 1 year ago
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Thus when constantine made christianity the state religion ,idolatry also entered along with it in the unsuspecting name of "intercession to saints".This soon spread to most of the church,because such was the influence of roman empire at that time.
alrok777 1 year ago
So they changed the names of their old idols to "christian" ones and started praying to them . This came to be known as "intercession to saints" and is still practiced by catholic and orthodox "christians".True christians like aryan christians,donatists manichaens oppsed this practice,but catholics branded them heretics and massacred them.. Iconoclastic movement of 7th century was against this practice, later protestant revolution (15-16th century) was waged mainly against this practice.
alrok777 1 year ago
@alrok777 Lucifer and his hordes of fallen angels also were against God for creating man in His Own image and likeness. He would not have man lifted up to the likeness of God.Man was created out of the Love of God.So they became heretics and fought against God. Know what? they werecast out of Heaven by Micheal the Archangel and his hordes of good angels. Now in the 21st century Lucifer ( like what mentioned protestants ) are waging against MAN and GOD.
TheRocky6019 1 year ago
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This caused the decline of true christianity.In the same fashion catholics branded other groups as heretics like donatists,manichaens,paulician s,bogomils,cathars,waldensians and finally protestants.
When constantine made christianity the official religion of roman empire, majority in his empire was still pagan and they found it hard to forgo of their old idolatrous practices.
alrok777 1 year ago
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But soon other germanic people goths,vandals conquered Italy spain etc and spread true christianity in those regions.It was the eastern goths(ostrogoths) who founded the nation of Italy as a true aryan christian nation.But through the council of nicae roman catholics spread lies about aryan christians,claiming that they believed Jesus was a created being and branded them heretics,when in reality they only taught that God the father was superior to son Jesus which is infact 100% biblical
alrok777 1 year ago
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They were known as aryan christians who rejected this idolatrous practice of intercession to saints.Most of the germanic people except the franks initially accepted true aryan christianity instead of catholicism which was corrupted by idolatry.It was 100s of years after that these groups became catholics.Romans at that time gave special previlages to franks for accepting the corrupted catholic religion.
alrok777 1 year ago
Later in 4th century constantine the roman emperor made christianity the official religion of roman empire.Through the edict of milan and thessalonica and council of nicae what they did was not toleration for christianity,but to create a new fake religion in the name of Jesus,in which they integrated the ancient roman idolatry as the practice of intercession to saints.Many christians at that time were against this
alrok777 1 year ago
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Protestant revolution was not the origin of protestantism.The first protestant church was the apostolic church. (the church depicted in new testament do not pray to "saints" or use statues\images in prayer worship.) Thus it was protestant in essence.
alrok777 1 year ago
now we know why the rcdc try ti hide the bible form the common man
beingther 1 year ago
i get a strongs look up names true meanings numbers denotes the nature too and colers metals gold means divinity white means rightousness
beingther 1 year ago
today there is a lot of negativity about catholics in the media. it's too bad, but the truth hurts. but know one thing, the truth does not hurt as much as all the little boys that your holy catholic priests fucked in the asshole. catholics disgust me. you guys are some oily fuckers. and most catholic women cant even cook! I know this one catholic bitch that damn near poisoned me with her baked chicken dinner. the meat wasn't even cooked that much on the inside and just wanted to barf.
HugoIStayHere 1 year ago
its so sad that rcc has to take these Converts and act like its a mighty move of god
100s are coming to the rcc . but 1000s are leaveing and they are trying to'' say look how good this is;; sad very sad
beingther 1 year ago
Calling the crasmatic movement a fad thats really funny hippies pet rock where fads Catholic Charismatic Renewal exists in over 230 countries in the world, having touched over 119 million members [ and a total of 500,000 christens talk in tongues this fad is coming to your local church
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther
Do you know why the Charismatic brand of Christianity has spread so rapidly in African Countries?
baldonebear 1 year ago
@baldonebear As a matter of fact I do know why.
Gods spirit moves on people it spreads like fire .
All real revivals of god spread fast .
why does the rcc never have revivals .?
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther
The RCC has revivals, though not the Pentecostal brand, which is really based on emotion.
The reason it has spread in African countries is that many of the people groups came from a religion based on the supernatural. They are drawn to Pentecostalism based on this.
Btw, this was in a Pentecostal magazine in 2007.
baldonebear 1 year ago
@baldonebear
First a true revival is a powerful move of god on the soul .its not invading a country and killing all that do not convert and calling it a revival that’s not revival or conversion
beingther 1 year ago
@baldonebear on your page you said I am a former Protestant Pastor who is now proud to be Catholic.there are 2 resones i see that 905 OF THE Converts to rcc is studyd to find truth and gave up .wanting some one to do it for them 80%
the other 20% do it becaues fallen man loves traditions and rituals thinking there mind will get into a state sad very sad
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther
Your assumption on converts is so far off.
Please do not assume to know the reason why a person converts. If you actually knew my story, you would feel foolish for this post.
Truly, you do not have anything but your warped opinion to back up your percentages and reasons. In other words, bull!!
baldonebear 1 year ago
@baldonebear . I could care less why you go to another Babylonian church I just assume you’re a fool. but I was being nice about the reasons why people do. Its hard to understand why some one would become a rc with all there antibible teachings .
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther
What church/group would you consider to have the true teaching of the scripture?
baldonebear 1 year ago
@baldonebear i do not belive any church has all truth not even any man if we know the truth we would be in the fullness of the image of god
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther
Someone has to have the truth.
baldonebear 1 year ago
@baldonebear god always has a reminit but no on one has all truth . if they did they would be as jesus is . its for the glory of god to hide a thing and the glory of kings to find a thing out ot has 45 mysterys nt has 26 mysterys to find out the rcc has zero mystrys figuerd out
beingther 1 year ago
@baldonebear none thats the point gods word says tudy to show your self aproved a workmen that need not be ashamed rightly deviding the word of truth . only the word has truth not man . the word of truth
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther
So there is not truth then.
baldonebear 1 year ago
@beingther Why is it so hard to believe that the Holy Ghost moved these people to join the RCC. I've heard the argument that it's our duty to study the Scriptures. Only for about a century was the common man educated to be able to read. Before that, how was the common man to study the Scriptures. Remember the Ethiopian eunich in the Book of Acts? "How can understand this unless someone teach me?"
backwoodsninja 1 year ago
@backwoodsninja hard to believe ? no imposable ! the hol;y spirit does not lead anyone to untruths only to truth . so it imposal for the holy spirit to lead to all truth and to rcc. > i never said one can not be tought by others even jeus had teachers . but the holy spirit leads to all truth .ethiopian had the word o i thought only the rcc had the bible so your saying others had the bible so the rcc did not give it to the world. funny 1
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther Now you're putting words in my mouth and you're unfamiliar with the story. The Ethiopian did not have a "Bible." He had a copy of the writings of Isaia. I wonder where the Holy Ghost was during the centuries prior to the Reformation. Was there no Gospel being preached? Were there no true Christians? Please tell me, if the Catholic Church is full of lies, is there a church preaching the real truth or should I just sleep in on Sunday?
backwoodsninja 1 year ago
@backwoodsninja god has always had a reminit . waclif oragin
zwigly hume atabaptists 1,000s even in the dark days there was a people of god there has always a remint that know truth even some rc tearsa of avilon john of the cross there is a remnitn in all denominations jesus only had 12 . thats the problem we sleep on sunday we should be studdying the word of god to show are self aproved
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther Studying the word of God would have been a real problem for the common man prior to the 19th century. Up until then, the average person was not taught how to read. They relied on the teachings of the Church that were handed down through the ages.
backwoodsninja 1 year ago
@backwoodsninja yes it was a problem becauese the rcc band the bible
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther When did the RCC "ban" the Bible? Of course they didn't let people take the Bible home with them back in the 1600's. Books were highly valuable because they had to be hand copied. And the average peasant was unable to read it anyway. Do you think there have always been Christian book stores where you could just go buy a Bible for ten dollars?
backwoodsninja 1 year ago
@backwoodsninja here are 2 prodestent in 18oos
William Dawson (college president)
Thomas Dawson (college president)
funny they had collages when they could not even read
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther There have always been colleges even back to the Greek and Roman societies. But education was not something that was offered to everyone until fairly recently. I did not say that no one could read. And I think you know that. Prior to governement-run public education, a fairly recent concept in human history, only the wealthy could afford to send their children to school or have them educated privately.
backwoodsninja 1 year ago
@beingther If no one has the truth, then you are just as lost as the rest of us. God always has a remnant? How do you know you are in the remnant? Perhaps you fell in with a crowd that had just another misunderstanding of the truth. If no one has the truth, then why are we even debating? We're all lost!!
backwoodsninja 1 year ago
@backwoodsninja if we had the fullness of the truth we would be as christ doing the works and greater. no one i know has all truth but we die in the hope . having faith no small group has truth. we study to show are selfs aproved . its called faith . god hides his truth . its not for every one . how do we study look up meanings of the names =denote the nature
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther The only flaw there is that so many modern day preachers and every day Christians study the word, yet so many come up with so many differing interpretations. So if the truth is hidden, then it'd be quite difficult if not impossible to know which interpretation is correct. We're all just grasping at straws hoping we get it right.
backwoodsninja 1 year ago
@backwoodsninja thats my point there has been over 300 popes and all have been exatly right . ya right !!! o ok. you just proved the point that the popes are fales teachers
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther you really need to read up on history before you start giving incorrect information. The current Pope is the 265th pope, there have not been over 300 popes.
carthage397 1 year ago
@carthage397 o sorry that makes it all better 266 o ok
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther You made a false statement about the number of popes and your response is "o sorry that makes it all better 266 o ok". 1. your response is pretty childish 2. by your carefree propagation of false information it seems that you dont care much for truth, regardless of the subject matter.
If your going to make a statement you should make sure it is accurate before you make it. If you give false information regarding the number of popes, one has to question everything else you say.
carthage397 1 year ago
@carthage397 sorry sir i didnt know you where the pope police . i dont care if there is 10 or 1000 point is the rcc gose agianst and teaches agianst the word the bible
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther "the pope police?" seriously man your really discrediting yourself with your childish comments.
Again if your gonna make a comment make sure its accurate before you say it. Please show me from the official teachings of the Catholic Church something that contradicts scripture. If you cant produce evidence to support your claim that the teachings of the Catholic Church is contrary to scripture then be quiet.
carthage397 1 year ago
@carthage397 Rcc official stand on mary is she is queen of heaven if you study jer 1:1-20 youll see that this is a demon Jer 44:18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all [things], and have been consumed by the sword and by the famineand this is only one out of 1000s
beingther 1 year ago
@carthage397 come on man you know that was funny
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther Secondly by what you say you have no understanding of the doctrine of papal infallibility. The pope is a human therefore he sins, not everything he says or does is right. When the pope speaks on matters of doctrine in communion with the magisterium he is guided by the Holy Spirit and those teachings on doctrine are infallible or without error.
carthage397 1 year ago
@carthage397 guided by the Holy Spirit . and saying and writtings by the holy spirit are 2 differant things . a song can be guided by the spiorit the word of god is written by the spirit . but you see it not for you are carnal
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther "you see it not for you are carnal" you are making a definite statement about me being of the flesh when all you can base this assumption on is a few exchanges of words on youtube? Talk about spiritual pride and false judgment! How do you make this assumption when all i have talked about are the things of God? Secondly you are dwelling on words (inspired vs guided) when you know what i mean, in order to circumvent the topic at hand because you dont have a proper answer for it.
carthage397 1 year ago
@beingther Just how God used imperfect, sinful men to write a perfect infallible book, the bible, he also uses imperfect, sinful men (the popes) to teach perfect Christian doctrines and teachings.
Before you say ignorant things and make yourself look silly you should do you research and be honest with yourself. Put away your misguided biases and find out with that the Church really teaches......and not what you want it to teach.
carthage397 1 year ago
@carthage397 Just how God used imperfect, sinful men to write a perfect infallible book?
just like he did john isha mosses ezeciel he took them into the spirit and they put down what they seen . i know its to deep for a rc to understand but its true .
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther what is your question? yes.....God used the various prophets, apostles and disciples as instruments to write the bible (ex. Moses, Isaiah, King David, Luke, Paul, Paul...etc). These were all sinful, imperfect men who God used as scribes to write the perfect, infallible book we call the Bible.
carthage397 1 year ago
@beingther " its to deep for a rc to understand "....dont throw stones if you live in a glass house. The Catholic Church has produced so many works of theology, philosophy, science, etc. The Church founded the university system, made huge leaps in astronomy, biology, physics, the arts.....the lists goes on and on.
What have the evangelicals contributed to society? Denying that dinosaurs existed or slandering other religions. When it comes to this department you really shouldnt talk.
carthage397 1 year ago
@carthage397 i dont care if they cured canser or world hunger they go agenst the bible sorry thats a fact
beingther 1 year ago
carthage397 i forgot how much fun it is yypeing to you have you miswsed me bro
beingther 1 year ago
It is wonderful to see people entering the Catholic Church. We have to follow what God is calling us to do, God knows what is best for us. Catholicism isn't true because I or anyone else believes it, we believe it because its true. The Catholic faith is the fullness of truth. God bless †
ComeHomeCatholics 2 years ago 22
@ComeHomeCatholics just Wondering why did pope john agree with the tongue talking movement
(being baptized in the holy ghost ) if they had all truth why didnt they now this 1500years ago if its a lie why did john do it for who really has all truth rcc or not
beingther 1 year ago
@beingther --JPII only gave "cautious approval" of this fad; if he were to dissaprove outright, it might have ruptured church unity.
RobotMonster464 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I converted from Calvinizm to Catholicism because our Savior, Jesus Christ is with the Catholic Church. This is the truth and undeniable. If you are ouside the Catholic Chuch and denounce the Catholic faith, it is apparent that you just envy the Catholic Church. No matter how hard you try to criticize the Catholic Church, it will be the main stream of Christianity eternally as it has been since the very time of its foundation by the hand of Jesus Christ.
bookishman 2 years ago
Funny you dont remember the one pope in Constantinople and the pope in roman .all Romans said he was pope. and all Constantinople said there pope was pope. so who became pope the one with the biggest army
Not the one ordained by god
beingther 2 years ago
beingther, it seems like you are trying to avoid the obvious argument. there can be 10 guys who say they are the REAL beingther but their claim to be you doesnt make their claims any more valid. ill take it one step further, beingther 1, beingther 2 and beingther 3 can all have supporters that says they are the real beingther......again this support doesnt make any one of the beingthers more valid. you seem to ignore this very obvious logic and continue to cite irrelevant examples.
carthage397 2 years ago
Tell me what would be my reason for pretending to be only one person is so silly saying im 10 people, I mean there is not point to convince you . I am dyslectic it takes me 3 time more time to type the it does for you so I dont wast time explaining something that is so stupid and total was of time
beingther 2 years ago
I was trying to make an example so you could understand that just because someone claims to be someone and a group of people support that person......that doesnt make that person's claim any more true. I am sorry you struggle with dyslexia, i will pray for you. Take care.
carthage397 2 years ago
No problem I was not offended I know I dont type or spell good but that was nice of you to say
beingther 2 years ago
thats a big statement
ned262626 2 years ago
ned 2626 One gets thick skinned about there abilities when people judge them all there life .
Its funny how its ok to judge people on there intelligent and not on there abilities.
Liberals mostly judge on that, and if your not a collage graduate then your less then.
Bigotry is bigotry now matter the form
beingther 2 years ago
@beingther
When was Constantinople founded?
Centuries after Christ.
TheKytuna 2 years ago
i dont know and dont care
beingther 2 years ago
@beingther if you dont know or dont care then why bother making a comment?
carthage397 2 years ago
@TheKytuna the city of Constantinople was founded in the 660's BC by the Roman Emperor Constantine the first.
carthage397 2 years ago
at one time there where 4 popes
the one that was the powerfullest and had the most money won .what a joke
beingther 2 years ago
correction.....at one time there was 1 pope and 3 guys who said they were pope. There is actually some guy in the present day in the midwest U.S. who calls himself Pope Michael, he dresses up in papal vestments and says hes the true pope. Does that make him a 2nd pope? No, just some fool who likes to dress up. If you dress up like a police captain it doesn't make you one. Also please present the proof that the most wealthy "pope" won. thank you
carthage397 2 years ago
cath go to a cathlic website they say them selfs there where 4 popes at one tim . or just be decived .
beingther 2 years ago
beingther please show me a Catholic website which says there were 4 legitimate popes at one time. There has always been 1 legit Pope at every time since the first pope, Peter. There has been impostors who say they are the pope but like i said before this doesn't make them Pope. Also you cant just make some claim without backing it up with legit proof. I give you an explanation to support my position, you cant just make a claim and not support it with further information.
carthage397 2 years ago
You're full of it. There have never been four popes at once. At one time there were THREE men ALL CLAIMING TO BE POPE. That was from 1408 to 1415. Only one of them was actually pope.
Today there are over a dozen men claiming to be pope. Only one man is the pope - Pope Benedict XVI. I suggest you read good books so you don't embarrass yourself like this.
vladimir998 2 years ago
nice comment Vlad
carthage397 2 years ago
Yes 3 popes sorry I thought there was only 4 ya 3 that makes it a lot better now the one that got to be pope was the one that paid the bigger bribe to the cardinals. o ok thats good enough for me. I would fallow him too
beingther 2 years ago
Jesus and his followers were persecuted for a lot of reasons but never for hurting anyone, killing anyone or enforcing the Gospel with a sword.
As far as protestants and Martin Luther go, did you know that as long as I have been a protestant, I never heard the name of Martin Luther in church? My church only preaches Jesus through scripture...no one else. If that is evil, then let me be wicked for Jesus.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 states that scripture is sufficient. Do I really NEED any other?
blakdak 2 years ago
this last statement you wrote about your church...in all respect and i mean that.....your church is a church started by a sinful man with flawed teachings that do not reflect in worship practices or belief the mind and soul of the Early Church. Your Church may say many true things but it is lacking because it is not Jesus' Church, it is a church of man. History shows that Jesus founded the Catholic Church. Theres gonna be wicked followers but that doesnt invalidate his Church.
carthage397 2 years ago
And in regards to the default protestant argument using 2 Timothy....you are taking it out of context. At the time 2 Timothy was written the bible wasnt compiled yet, revelation wasnt written yet. Paul was taking about the Old Testament, not the total 73 book bible, so if Paul meant that statement how you interpret it then the New Testament isnt necessary. Also that verse says that scripture equips one for good works......not salvation, you arent saved by works but a faith working in love.
carthage397 2 years ago
blakdak again please stop focusing on bad people because this argument isnt an argument. I dont argue about bad Protestants ( i only did so as a response to your arguments about bad Catholics). If you want to talk truth and doctrine and history im all for it but if you keep on the bad Catholics (which isnt an argument) then i have too much to do to continue with this argument. Read the Mass of the Early Christians by Mike Aqualina and Faith of the Early Fathers by William A Jurgens Take care man
carthage397 2 years ago
"Never splintered for 2000 years"? What about the great schism of 1377-1417? There were at least 2 claiming to be Pope at the same time.
The issue that I have with the Catholic church (as I discussed with Carthage) is that Jesus' church (if it is Catholic) is responsible for so much death and blood shed; so many gruesome acts in the death of non-Catholic christians.....it's hard to believe that the Catholic church has anything to do with Jesus at that point.
blakdak 2 years ago
in response to this so called great schism. the only great schism was with the orthodox in 1054. The 2 men who were claiming to be Pope in the 14th/15th centuries were imposter who weiled political power in order to try to hold power. There is always 1 pope at a time.....in this particular time there were 2 guys who said they were pope but werent. To dress up like a bishop and say you are a bishop doesn't make you a bishop.
carthage397 2 years ago
Pentecostals like to dress up like bishops now that doesnt make them bishops. Also with your statement saying the Catholic Church is responsible for so much death and blood shed is so false. What are you talking about the inquisition, where about 3000 people died in 500 years, and may i remind you this was a joint effort from some Catholics and mainly political powers.
carthage397 2 years ago
So in its 2000 year history members of the Catholic Church (not the Church as a whole) have been responsible for a small amount of killing and tourture. If interesting how you are obsessed with the bad historical things but you havent mentioned at all, all the good the Catholic Church has done. It is the largest providers of social services in the world, runs more hospitals and schools then any government orgainzation, has built western civilization
carthage397 2 years ago
blakdak, it seems that you are looking at the history of the Catholic Church through a very bias lense and focusing only on the human failings of its members but never acknowledging the great things the Church has done and continues to do. Again Jesus had disciples who betrayed him, by your understanding and focus on people's fallings Jesus must have made a mistake and his followers must be all corrupt.
carthage397 2 years ago
.........based on a new doctrine NOT found clearly in scripture is what I am referring to. I interpret that as........"do what we say and believe what we tell you without question or you are condemned".
blakdak 2 years ago
Carthage says that Anathema means excomunicated. I have read where is means cursed. Either or is irrelevant. Jesus says "I am the way, the truth and the life"; not His mother. So later doctrines aside.....Jesus is my savior and myself (or anyone) doesn't like being told that my salvation is based on a new doctrine.
blakdak 2 years ago
Anathema is used a curse in pre-christian faiths. within the context of the Church it is the same as excommunication. Also the Church never said do what we say or be condemned. Christ established the Catholic Church and the holy spirit is guiding it. The Spirit leads the Church into truth and the church discloses this truth to the people and condemns heretics who are trying to lead the sheep astray.
carthage397 2 years ago
The church fathers, while adequately copying the scriptures, doesn't mean their traditions were accurate regarding the church. Did any of the church fathers meet, walk, talk and know Jesus personally or was their input after the Apostles time?
blakdak 2 years ago
ok im back, in regards yo you saying the church fathers copied the scripture but that doesnt mean their traditions were correct. If your going to question the oral tradition which is interwoven with the liturgical worship and the written scripture itself then whos to say they copied the scriptures adequacy? The Church was founded by Christ, its his Church, he said the holy spirit will be with the Church and lead it to ALL TRUTH. you are forgetting God's supernatural hand in all this
carthage397 2 years ago
if the church was just a bunch of unguided men then i would question the validity of the teachings as well as the holy bible that they compiled preserved for 2000 years but its not just a bunch of unguided men, its guided by the power of the Holy Spirit so it wont fall into error in matters of teaching. Whos to say the writers of the New Testament were correct when they wrote the books? The Holy Spirit was guiding them, there is a supernatural element here and this applies to Jesus' Church also.
carthage397 2 years ago
Martin Luther (and any others) never preached themselves into absolute authority over Christian converts so if a Protestant didn't feel as if their leader was competent, they had an option to disregard that leader without the consequence of death, torture or imprisonment.
blakdak 2 years ago
Answering you statment about protestant s never saying they were an absolute authority. Classical protestantism rejects authority so they wouldnt do that but becuase of lack of leadership you have a crazy amount of division and heretical teachings. Also with these references you keep bringing up on death and torture. When leaders of any organization couple themselves with political power their corruption and oppresion are sure to follow.
carthage397 2 years ago
This goes to the poster: Rose. I was looking for your comment to reply but couldn't find it anymore. You asked something regarding the issue Protestants have with Mary. I will only speak for myself on this matter. I honor everyone who has accepted Jesus as their Savior and thus, that includes Mary. My issue is that November 1, 1950, I was informed by Pope Pius XII that if I didn't accept that Mary was assumed into Heaven, I was considered Anathema.
blakdak 2 years ago
I mention this because this is one of Scott's afirmations of Apostolic Succession; a whole other topic.
blakdak 2 years ago
Comment removed
carthage397 2 years ago
oh also i just noticed i missed some of your comments because youtube groups them strangly when there is alot so any questions i didnt answer please let me know and ill try to get you an answer in a timely fashion, take care.
carthage397 2 years ago
Carthage; I just finished watching the video by Scott Hahn re: Common Objections to the Pope. He's good with his research and delivery. Problem: he mentioned how the 'office' of the Apostles needed to be replaced after Judas by Matthias. He didn't quote the rest of that situation where Matthias wasn't chosen by simple vote or laying on of hands. He had to qualify which included being with the Apostles themselves during the time of Jesus' ministry. Of all, only 2 men qualified; Acts.1:21-26.
blakdak 2 years ago
Oh yeah!!!! There WAS another point I wanted to touch on. In secular and Christian history, we have many incidents listed where Catholic Christians killed other Christians who were not Catholic. It's one thing to defend yourself against an invading enemy. It's something else to wipe out nearly entire peoples (Waldenses, Albigenses, etc.) prior to the reformation of Luther simply because they believe in Jesus and do so without a Pope. What is your commentary on these things?
blakdak 2 years ago
.....they were carried out by secular leaders. what it all boils down to is killing is wrong and people (religious or not) should have handled these problems differently. The bad actions and judgments of Catholics do not reflect the teachings of the Church. This again is a example of Christians not living up to the expectations of their respected offices, this does not dissolve the office of the Church.
carthage397 2 years ago
The teaching of the Catholic church, especially during the councils, put out 'anathemas' (curses) to anyone who did not believe in their doctrine (that is, the doctrine beyond scripture).
The biggest problem in this I see is that when you have a hiarchy system like you do in the Catholic church, one man can indeed lead millions astray. Example; if YOU Carthage were to scriptually disagree with the Pope on an issue (and you happen to be right), what is your method to correct the Pope?
blakdak 2 years ago
in the early Church the word Anathema was synonymous with excommunication not curse. it was used to excommunicate heretics and their dangerous teachings. The people who taught that Jesus was not God (arians) and that the physical body was evil (gnostics) were excommunicated for heresy. It was not a power trip by the Church to kick out everyone who didnt agree with them but to condemn false teaching that would threaten the unity and salvation of Christians
carthage397 2 years ago
if the bad action of the Christian leader invalidated the office of the Church then the Christian religion would have ended with Judas' betrayal of Jesus. I hope i answered your questions sufficiently. Some good books i would suggest for you to read are "the mass of the early christians" by mike aquiliana, "the faith of the early fathers" by william jurgens (3 volumes of translated documents of the early church) anything by Dr. Scott Hahn. If you have any other questions please let me know.
carthage397 2 years ago
In other words, could YOU humble the Pope if he were in the wrong or would it just be another example of you being humbled and made to either agree or leave Catholicism?
It's funny you mentioned Scott Hahn. I was actually just watching a video of his while reading your posts.
For you, have you heard of Richard Bennett, Mike Gendron or Walter Martin? Very powerful speakers. Bennett used to be a Catholic preist himself. Interesting stuff there. Look them up on Youtube!
blakdak 2 years ago
in response to your statement with me humbling the pope if he was wrong.. History shows that he Bishop of Rome has never taught error as doctrine or dogma. Popes who were corrupted did bad things but they never taught error ex-catherdra (from the authority of the chair of Peter) in the 2000 year history of the Catholic Church. About Stephen 1st he was the first one to use the title Pope, that doesnt mean the papacy didnt exist before him.
carthage397 2 years ago
What happens to the Christians who followed the evil Popes blindly believing that they were true men of God? How can they be blamed for completely following the Vicar of Christ Himself?
Final thought and then I will hand it over to you. I have heard this but have no confirmation yet. Did the Catholic church omit the 2nd of the 10 Commandments? If so, why? If not, I apologize. This is something I am still researching.
blakdak 2 years ago
Christians following the bad Popes: These popes were bad because of what the did not due to what they taught. A Pope has never taught false doctrine authoritatively. They have done evil things but never changed doctrine or made up doctrine. Christians arent held accountable for the sins of their shepherds. If my pastor is a pervert and molests children that doesnt affect my relationship with Christ, nor does it invalidate the sacraments.
carthage397 2 years ago
Vicar of Christ is a big title for a man to carry. Christ's replacement on Earth tells me that in the previous situation, it is indeed Christ himself telling me to kill these other Christians and defend the faith. However, we both already know that Christ does not allow killing in his name as we learned with Peter when the soldiers came to arrest Jesus. So how could the Vicar of Christ order Christians to kill other Christians just for not recognizing His earthly replacement?
blakdak 2 years ago
the Catholic Church didnt omit the 2nd commandment. Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox, and Jews group the 10 commandments from Exodus 20 differently. There is a good table from the wikipedia article on the 10 commandments that shows the different groupings. As for the inquisitions. Catholic as well as Orthodox Christians tried and executed people for spreading heretical beliefs, it wasnt just for their denial of the Pope. Sometimes these trials were done by Church officals, but many times.....
carthage397 2 years ago
I understand what you are saying regarding the Popes and their personal sin vs. what they taught as scripture. However, there are too many Catholics (not nearly as educated as you are) who truly worhship the Pope and regard everything he says as scripture and from the mouth of God.
In what ways is the Pope (and indeed the entire Roman Catholic organization) teaching people that the Pope is still a fallible man in need of prayer and salvation like everyone else?
blakdak 2 years ago
in response to Catholics who worship the Pope. I assure you from being a Catholic my whole life and going to hundreds of different Churches and meeting ignorant Catholics as well as intelligent Catholics, no one worships the Pope or even has a notion of this. This is a fabricated lie invented by opponents of the Church. you can go to the most un-educated person in the poorest country and they will be confused by this accusation, its so far out, its not even in a Catholics mind.
carthage397 2 years ago
I respectfully ask please not to refer to the Church as the "Roman Catholic Organization", its the Catholic Church. Roman Catholic is just 1 of the 22 rites in the Catholic Church, the Latin Rite. Pick up the Cathechism of the Catholic Church if you would like to know what the Church truely teaches, its about $8. The Church has always taught that the Pope is is a falliable man in need of prayer and salvation.
carthage397 2 years ago
If there were 1 true Pope since the time of Peter, why didn't Emporer Constantine simply get together with the Pope of the Christian church rather than call all the church Bishops together to settle their differences? Where was The Pope during the Council of Nicea?
I have met and spoken with many Catholics who agree that not all Popes of the Catholic church reside in Heaven. Some were downright evil. Another question; what happens to the Christians who followed the evil Popes......
blakdak 2 years ago
the doctrine of Papal Primacy like every other Christian doctrine too time to develop and during heavy persecution it was difficult for the Church to get together and talk about these issues. As for 1st Council Council of Nicaea, Constantine wouldnt just meet with the Bishop of Rome and exclude the other bishops because they have a huge amount of authority as well. This particular council was convened to address the Arian heresy which was running rampant in the eastern empire...
carthage397 2 years ago
Be it Papal Primacy (not much humility in that title), the Marion doctrines, etc. that took time to develop...my question is why? What was the functional use (as a Christian or not) for such doctrines to come along when we already read in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 that all scripture (by A.D. 67) was enough for righteousness in God's sight? Did we need later doctrines that created and supported the Catholic church (only) rather than relying on original scripture?
blakdak 2 years ago
....so the bishops from all over the Church were needed to discuss these issues. To exclude all the bishops and just talk to the Pope would be like excluding all the apostles and just talking to Peter. Also at the council of Nicaea the pope (then Sylvester 1) sent a papal legate to the council to represent him, which many Pope's did during the time. So the Pope actually did put in his input at the council.
carthage397 2 years ago
Again, if Constantine wanted to settle the debate regarding the Arian heresy, surely the Vicar of Christ (the Pope) could have made a statement on that very important issue just as Christ would have in His own time among us.
I turn the logic around; why ask hundreds of bishops of something they may argue about for years rather than just ask one person who will settle the matter immediately and bring peace once again to Christendom? A credible answer is 'no papal primacy'.
blakdak 2 years ago
Although I can see that this issue of the Arian heresy could lead to a need for Papal Primacy in later times.
Yes, there were many good Popes and fewer corrupted Popes in church history. I am only talking about the good Popes who gave the decree to slaughter entire people(s) in the name of Jesus (or their own primacy).
My question is when a good Pope orders good Catholic soldiers (or civil authorities) to kill good Christians who don't observe the Pope...what happens?
blakdak 2 years ago
now on to your statement about good popes giving the decree to slaughter good Christians who dont observe the pope? Please make a historical citation of this account. Vicar of Christ - This is just another title of the popes position which was appoint by Christ. Jesus gave Peter the authority to head over the Church he founded in Matt 16:13-20 and John 21:15-17. the successors of Peter are filling in that Christ established office until Christ returns at the end of time.
carthage397 2 years ago
Popes who conducted or ordered torture and executions include: Innocent III, Innocent IV, Gregory IX, Honorius III, Nicolas V, Sixtus IV, Adrian II, Adrian III, Stephen V, Formosus, Boniface VI, Stephen VI, Romanus, Theodore II, John IX, Benedict IV, Leo V and Christopher are just a few. Are these the same Popes on the list of 'corrupt' Popes?
Got a question for you: historically, how does the Catholic church respond to the extermination of the Albigenses, the Waldenses, William Tyndall...
blakdak 2 years ago
please provide credible sources for these claims. if you can give me with a list of sources that would be great. also to answer your question in general, people religious or not do evil things, this does not invalidate the church or her teachings. One of Jesus 12 apostles betryayed him, peter denied him. does this invalidate the church? No. The Church is a field sowne with weeds and wheat, your gonna have bad leaders as well as followers, this doesnt invalidate the truth the church puts forth
carthage397 2 years ago
Correct, evil leaders do not invalidate the church in any way. What evil leaders will do is steer an organization the wrong way and without counter-measures on how to deal with this, the entire organization can be doomed. So my question is what the procedures are to correct a Pope in scripture or even in the direction of the church? What if YOU disagreed with the Pope's direction (or theology) and you happened to be right? What do you do? The Apostles had to be corrected at times.
blakdak 2 years ago
on your question with bad popes, history has shown they have never taught error as doctrine or dogma. some have lived bad lives but have never taught error. The Church is Jesus Christ's hierchy, he established it this way, it is not a democracy where you have human checks and balances. the Holy Spirit is always guiding the church to all truth, He is our check. even though there has been evil Catholics the 3rd person of the trinity has always been there to keep the church on the right track
carthage397 2 years ago
again your arguments fall on bad people not living up to their faith. Also when an groups has political power there is always the temptation to abuse it. Thats why now Catholic clergy are forbidden to run for office so they stay focused on the gospel and dont get corrupted by politics
carthage397 2 years ago
i agree there were bad things done in the name of God in the Catholic Church, but there were also bad things done in the name of the God in the many protestant churches. Im sure in your own denomination there were corrupt pastors and lay people who did bad things, but does this invalidate the truths that your church puts forth? No. Are you gonna leave an join a church with no sinners? its impossible because every church has sinners
carthage397 2 years ago
the Catholic/Orthodox Church are Churches full of sinful, falliable people, lead by sinful and falliable people, but it is guided by the Holy Spirit and it has always taught truth even amongst the midsts of its leaders and followers not living up to their Christian potential. You cant really make an argument against the teachings of the Catholic Church by pointing out its bad members, just like i havent made any arguments against the teachings of protestants based on bad protestants.
carthage397 2 years ago
The difference between 'bad' Catholics and 'bad' Protestants is that 'bad' Catholics claimed an authority that was enforced by torture, imprisonment or death. Many chose to die which says a lot about those 'bad' Catholics. The 'bad' Protestants were just 'bad' Protestants and did not create an Inquisition to advance their faith(s).
blakdak 2 years ago
have you ever heard of the Anglican persecutions in England? during the English reformation when a protestant queen was in power the catholics were persecuted, when a catholic queen was in power the protestants were persecuted. what about the purtians with the salem witch trials. Men are failliable and are tempted with political power, what ever group is in power there will always be people in that group abusing the power and persecuting others.
carthage397 2 years ago
This is my first 'red flag' if you will. The first church that the JW and the Mormons attacked and condemned was the Catholic church. It's pretty sad but all claim to be the middle-man between a sinner and salvation.
Everyone's 'additional scriptures' (Book of Mormon, JW literature, Catholic traditions) lay claim and authority to salvation or condemnation. So for me, all 'additional scriptures' must be highly scrutinized.
blakdak 2 years ago
also you said the largest "christian churches" have otehr books. the jws, mormons are pretty small 16 million in each group, thats very small incomparision to ohter protestant groups. Also the Catholic Chruch isnt the middle man, IT WAS ESTABLISHED BY THE GOD-MAN. this is how Jesus set it up. you cannot compare some crazy nutty groups from the 19th century with the Church that was scripturally and historically founded by Jesus.
carthage397 2 years ago
As you said, if the Catholic church was similar to that of an undeveloped baby who over time develops into a mature form (over time the Catholic develops it's doctrine), then Jesus' infant church STILL had to have the full Gospel and all the blessings that accompany it. If not, then Jesus left an incomplete method of salvation (an infant, undeveloped church) that accidentally doomed millions because of it's immaturity.
blakdak 2 years ago