Kamepiula VS Lolo uila (In Hawaiian and Esperanto with English decription)

[sephorard]

Esperanto, wow!!! i speak almost 10 languages, but never got into esperanto, you are amazing,Auē!! he Keiki kāne akamai loa 'oe! Aloha nui loa e Matt!!

[kelii777]

We need to remember that a language, must evolve in order to survive. I was fortunate to have been raised with manaleo and they have shared their 'ike with me. According to them, if we went 200 years back in time, there'll be words even manaleo can't understand. Everyone including manaleo say pepeiao, when the ancient term was papaio. So language does evolve based upon the environment.

[dukemasuya]

I guess that is true . It just aggrevated me to a point that there is a perfectly good word for computer - lolo uila but people still feel the need to use a word that sounds anglicized like kamepiula.

[Kamaka675]

Excellent point. Languages do indeed change over time. Since use of Hawaiian has declined over the years, the task of grammarians has shifted from merely documenting changes in the language to actually influencing its direction. They've taken up the task of enlarging the written lexicon with newly coined terms and vocabulary used by mānaleo not included in the Hawaiian Dictionary.

[PrepeiNaSasPw]

I noticed that non-native speakers of Hawaiian had "funny" accents (i.e., American accents) even before I began learning Hawaiian. You can tell when you hear them speak! The woman who does the Ahai Olelo Ola broadcast, for example. She's fluent, but she's not native. It shows.

First, you can tell by comparing to other Polynesian languages that the "k" and "p" should be unaspirated. It's not just an English "k" or "p," but that's what books teach.

Second, the intonation is so off.

[PrepeiNaSasPw]

I don't know why they don't just take the UH books that EVERYONE who studies Hawaiian uses (the $5 ones) and have a panel of native speakers go through them and critique them. Then, revise them. After they are revised, they can record native speakers acting out the new vignettes or something. Getting access to native spakers is SO hard and frustrating for people (like me) who want to learn REAL Hawaiian.

(my comments relate to Keao's article about traditional Hawaiian vs. Neo-Hawaiian)

[dukemasuya]

It is frustrating for me too. I read Keao's article too and all of the points mentioned really got to me. Sad thing is, some people don't acknowledge that there is a difference between L1 and L2 Hawaiian. I think in the end it all comes down to the ban of Hawaiian in the schools, something we can't change now, unfortunately. One generation loses its access to its native tongue and the later generations as well as learners pay for it. How disappointing!

[dukemasuya]

Not to mention that Keao's tutu said to him:

I kou māmā mā nō e liilii ana, ua manao aku au aale meikei ke ao ia lākou i ka ōlelo Hawaii. Auē, nui loa nō kou mihi. That must have been so depressing for her to realize just how much the language was important, only after its ban and reintroduction and now the language is reduced down to this.

[Kamaka675]

One reason that most native speakers born off of Niʻihau are very old and passing away. Many of the extremely fluent native speakers have already passed on. Another is that those in control of research and instruction are typically second language speakers. If you want to speak the kind of Hawaiian spoken by a native speaker, the best thing to do would be to immerse yourself in conversation with one. Short of that, you could listen to a variety of interviews done with native speakers.

[Kamaka675]

I believe UH Mānoa and UH Hilo make use of mānaleo in the classrooms. It might be worthwhile to direct your inquiries there.

[dukemasuya]

I have made this observation as well and I think sometimes I make the same mistake. It is very important to hear native (L1) speaks speaking but unfortunately most of them have passed away now. And it's not just pronunciation and intonation but which words to use when and the uses of the past tense as mentioned in Keao's article.

[Kamaka675]

I do understand where you're coming from though. Currently there are several ways of coining new terms in Hawaiian, ranging from using descriptive phrases consisting of existing words, to adding grammatical suffixes in order to change existing words, to borrowing words from other Polynesian languages, to using transliterations from English, etc. This process can be very confusing. Native speakers would definitely have issues with this.

[Kamaka675]

Both kamepiula and lolo uila are familiar terms to active speakers of the language. However, I do agree that kamepiula, as a transliteration, is less genuine than lolo uila. Honestly, I'm happy that the language is in such a resurgence that a Hawaiian translation for Google would be considered, or that people care enough about it to debate over proper terms.

[dukemasuya]

Mahalo no kou mana'o. The user who I referred to, told me that he preferred the use of words that had mana'o that were Hawaiian. If I went and said the term kamepiula to a native speaker (many have passed on now) or a kupuna who was a native speaker, they mighn't understand what I mean. If I used the term lolo uila, perhaps they might have some idea because of the Hawaiian idea being expressed. This is how I understand it. I figured that someone like Lilinoe Andrews would understand this too.

[Kamaka675]

Native speakers should know both lolo uila and kamepiula, especially since kamepiula obviously is a transliteration of the English word computer, and all native speakers are bilingual in English. This is generally not a problem.

[dukemasuya]

That does make sense what you're saying there. I might add that "kamepiula" is one of a number of terms that have been invented by individuals or groups of people that are not necessarily native speakers and these terms may not necesarily be recognizable to native speakers considering all the methods you mentioned. See the thesis in the video description links to see where I'm heading with all this. This thesis was recommended to me by another user here on Youtube. Mahalo nui loa!