There is absolutely a need for a Treasury and a national debt. Jefferson acknowledged this. However, Hamilton's and Jefferson's differences were rooted in the idea of monetary policy and central banking. Even the first central bank, far more modest than the Federal Reserve System, was very inefficient and corruptible; the Bank gave the central government and private bankers too much power. It bound farmers to Londoners and New Yorkers, caused panics, and made the dollar worth less to the people.
Adams wasn't blind to the dangers of capitalism and 'aristocracy' run amok, but I think he saw a strengthening of the federal government in international eyes as preferable to the issues of currency the United States had in this period, and essential to ending the trade war with England. Jefferson was correct in predicting the reasons for the madness of westward expansion, through to the 1850 compromise and the civil war. It's certainly not about the genius of Hamilton, going on about 'Union'.
Say what you want. Hamilton was a genius and did so much to help our early country. Politics change. Use some type of reletavism when looking back into history. Also some people commenting on here should actual do more than watch this miniseries if they want an understanding of history.
The Hamaltonian and Jeffersonian argument still persists. Do we want a powerful central authoirty in whom once has power runs with it like a mad man, or as Jefferson saw, the states are independent to the degree that they are united under the bill of rights. Hamilton even as stated in the clips says if the states own the centralized power money so even at the early outset, the founders saw the states very independent and seperate through united under the Constitution.
Hamilton was the greatest politician in American history. He provided the economic framework for the country, helped write most of The Federalist Papers (the most important and influential documents in American politics), and was the leader of the Federalist Party, a political party that used rational thought, unlike the Anti-Federalist who were paranoid and ignored common sense, instead using a simple ideology as their argument.
You all should watch the youtube video titled The Founders' Dark Side and see if you're still sympathetic to Madison and Hamilton. Seriously, it's only a minute long and it covers so much that they don't teach you in school. Sources are cited, too.
@TheSololobo If I recall correctly, it was Adams who tried to create a title of nobility for the president and vice president of the United States and that was Washington's response to the idea. Adams was cast out of meetings until much later in Washington's presidency.
@T0PSLAYER117 I had forgotten about that. I can't say I saw the whole mini-series, but from what I saw- I don't recall the portrayal of this bit of info(the nobility issue); which if it wasn't shown is not a full and honest portrayal of whom Adams truly was. A flaw that outweights all of his virtues IMO.
All things aside about each man involved here, Jefferson practically predicted the future. The economic troubles we are having today are being caused by EXACTLY the chain of corruption Jefferson speaks of.
O yes. No doubt here. This is also the centrarl part of how one saw that the U.S. would have a war between the states aka the "CIVIL WAR". It was not so much about slavery though that was a big part. For the most part, the civil war was about what Jefferson said in the clip. That farmers would be paying people in the North to pay the people that we just fought against. Until one realizes this it will never change. P.S. Slavery is deplorable and horrible.
Hamilton was terrible. I don't care if he was "instrumental" in the founding of this country. Ya, he sure was. Thanks to his type of thinking, this country has been stuck with the Federal Reserve System for the past hundred years! Jefferson ended the 1st National Bank, Jackson ended the 2nd. It's time to end the 3rd!!!!!
I'm sure that God the Father gives a rat's ass about "politics"...NOT. I'll take Jefferson over Hamilton and his perverse view of economics. Read "your" freaking history...he was a "wo is me" growing up. He felt he had a lot to prove, running and trampling over people to the top. However, Aaron Burr proved to be a better shot, now didn't he? Was Washington perfect, hell no! Was Jefferson perfect, hell no! Were any of these guys perfect, hell no! But Hamilton was an asshole much of the time.
What an incredible piece of historical portrayal. The dialogue is a Civics lesson wrapped in a history lesson, and it applies as much today as it did then. A MUST viewing for anyone interested in the way history and current events are relevant to each other.
Hamilton didn't take Jefferson to school, Jefferson's chief concerns are pretty much the problems we're seeing now. Go figure, it's almost like they had seen it happen before.....oh wait, they already dealt with this shit in England.
@efs120 I'm a teenager and I'm embarrassed to live in this generation with teens who are ignorant and take a lot for granted. One person didn't even know who John Adams is.
"I fear our revolution will have been in vain if a Virginia farmer is to be held in hock to a New York stock jogger who, in turn, is in hock to a London banker. Opportunities for avarice and corruption would certainly prove irresistible."
DAMN STRAIGHT - CAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAS HAPPENED!!!
Mr. Jefferson, it's high time for that 20 years' revolution of yours to make haste!
Alexander Hamilton left the constituional convention in protest & had no vote there afterwards. He wanted a lifetime federal governer with an absolute veto to appont state governers. He wanted a life time senate. He was against the bill of rights. everything he proposed was unconstitutional & his friend Justice Marshall let him get away with it. Hamilton is the reason the Federalist party died & the Anti-federalist would rule under one party name or another for the next 60 yrs.
@LexNaturalis1982 pardon me for asking, but I do not grasp your indicative denouncement of Ham proposing a Senate for life [on good behavior]? Have you considered maybe it might be beneficial: Curbing the power of Int. Groups by no popular elections w/Sen, provide a block in Congress against rash demagogic leg. from the House, provide a personal propertied interest in Congress, fulfill their Constit. role more completely w/treaties & Pres.nominees? H's idea is intriguing in the very least...
@Kierkegaard73 He was laughed out of the constitutional convention. He enjoyed the support of no one. Not one founding father seconded his proposal. He left the convention in protest and lost his voting privilage when he returned without the other two delegates. He then worked his entire life trying to subvert the constitution in to the plan he couldent get passed at the convention, opening up opportunity for government corruption by destroying article one section eight. Thank you Burr!
@LexNaturalis1982 fascinating, since I have read Farrand's 'Records of the Federal Convention(as well as the Papers of A.H.) & strangely I do not recall a single reference of other delegates laughing him out of the Con. And, as I recall, he had a private law case to attend to back in NYC, & that G.W. himself wrote pleadingly for him to return. Yates and Lansing were sent by Clinton to nullify his vote. But this is off my topic. Again I ask, why is Ham's proposal of the Senate. so bad?
Hamilton should have been hung. I once saw a princeton faculty debate about who was better..jefferson or hamilton. and of course, all the shithead professors voted Hamilton the wisest. short sighted piece of shit. hang him i say!
@efs120 bullshit3118 is right. The PRIVATE central bank is the main reason for this nations problems since it's founding in 1913. Do a little research and less name calling and you will become enlightened.
@efs120 Not hung. We should've sent him over to tyrannist Britian where he belonged. He had no interest in Democracy. He had an interest in Power, and the ability to dictate the actions of others. While Jefferson was a God.. BOOM!
@TKROKS hahaha yeah a god alright. Let's take a glimpse at ol' Jeffy, shall we? He organized a smear campaign against A H & G W using Fed funds to aid an opposition press, he tried to get Cong.; both as Sec of State & later as Pres. to forbid trade w/Britain, He had some very interesting convos with French ministers Genet & Latombe that some might call a wee bit subversive if not treasonable. His Kentucky Resolutions,well, we all know what those eventually justified. shall I go on? BOOM!
@27thedirector he took our debt which was trading at 25 percent par and had the debt trading 110 a premium. Jefferson did not destroy the bank because it worked it united the nation and prevented a civil war and economic collapse
at the time the federal government needed to be stronger the factionalism and regional power battle had prevented Washington from getting supplies and troops during the war.
do a little research you will be enlightened. look at all sides not just propaganda
@moctezuma112 The need for a strong federal government is the most obvious one. He would be appalled at most of these candidates. Hamilton's views on the Commerce Clause, for instance, would line up with Obama and be completely the opposite of any Republican candidate.
@efs120 The federal reserve is a private internationally run theres nothing FEDERAL (AMERICAN) about it. Most Republicans support corporate facism disgusing it as capitalism. Meanwhile democrats are more of the same (spinless cowards). The politicians both dem & repub have sold this country out ppl need to realize that & stop with the divide & conquer/ diversion of attention antics.
Being the first president of the land of the free must be extraodinary. that end of the scene left me confused
When he said "Its Mr President, and nothing more" did he say that because he is super over committed to do his job? or did he have a problem with John Adams in the past?
@moctezuma112 An earlier scene showed Adams coming up with grand names to refer to the president, in the same vein as Your Majesty. Washington did not like that.
As for the Civil War, there are many people you can blame for that. The only thing that could have prevented civil war was a shift out of agrarian economy in south, thus preventing the need for slaves. Banning the importation of slaves made the south treat slaves more humanely and let them reproduce... instead of working them till death and buying a new one they became more like the family pet, people say they love their pets but they still kick them.
Why do people hate Hamilton? Burr who shot him, should have been hung for murder. Hamilton shot his gun in the air and had no intention of fighting the duel - he was a man of principle. Jefferson was a man of principle as well.
Also Hamilton never suggested a Federal Reserve, which may I add has never been audited.
Hamilton didn't rip Jefferson a new one. Jefferson pointed out Hamilton's flaws while simotaneously predicting the Civil War 70 years before it happened.
Thanks to Hamilton, we have the money to fund public education; therefore, creating your not-always-accurate opinions. Hamilton was not an angel, but he shaped USA's economic system. Do you want me to go over Jefferson's defense of the slave market?
Without Hamilton, we would not have the Constitution, and without Hamilton, the modern industrialized and modernized American economy would not have come to be. Hamilton was a revolutionary forecaster, seeking to enhance and improve the Union. Without Hamilton, the US would have never come to be in it's modern form.
And to think in those days it was easier to reach a bipartisan agreement than it is now, even with Jefferson and Hamilton as opposite as they were. They were oppositely charged, & reflected the government. Neither Jefferson nor Hamilton fit the mold of a good President. Someone scholarly like James Madison should have been 3rd after Adams. Madison who had worked with Hamilton & Jefferson could have balanced (with patience) both to a level that only George Washington could exceed.
I'll choose Hamilton anyday against jefferson, Hamilton had the right ideas & understood the role of government in a economy, He thought economics was inherently political & thats absolutely correct, That the economic policy of a nation is always going to be political, no matter what rhetoric you bring forth
Hamilton is the founder of the American system of Politcal Economy, The vehicle of progress America, its was the main bipartisan school of thought from the 18th-20th century
Without Hamilton's economic policy, The states would have succumbed to default, that would have had a catastrophic effect on a new nation, No investor would have bought their bonds
By making the debt federal & creating a national bank chartered by Congress, Hamilton created a national credit system aimed at improving infrastructure, encouraging industry, setting up protective tarriff against import, which detered competition, thus aiding local production & cutting out british based speculators
Alexander Hamilton founded American finance and economics. The United States eventually became the most prosperous and economically powerful nation the world has ever seen. So in high school I was told to worship....Jefferson? Why is Hamilton termed the evil genius when his ideas were so forward looking and profound that even the legendary people depicted at this table couldn't grasp what he was creating? While Jefferson's America would have most likely ended in warring city-states?
This is a complicated period of American History. Neither Hamilton or Jefferson were right. I agree with James Madison. Hamilton's system is a good one but it should be in the hands of the people, this powerful instrument should be wielded for the American people. Hamilton thought "Only the right sort of person" should run it.
Im sorry if I was in that era I wouldve been an avid Federalist and a supporter of Hamilton at least insofar as his views expressed here. His vision of the country is what won out while Jeffersons would have kept the US weak economically, politically and militarily.National debt is the way people governents gain credit and the lack of it explains the downfall of the Spanish empire.Dont blame the concept of national debt for irresponsible governments increasing it.
"School"?! We've seen what our national debt is doing...and we're not DONE seeing what disasters it WILL do! Centralized bank? Yeah, our Federal Reserve is even WORSE, because it charges us INTEREST on our own printed money!
@QuartuvLarry "Debt" in and of itself is not a bad thing. It only turns into a negative when you build up to much of it and lack the means to pay it off. Ever since WW2, America has lived far above it's means by going on a spending craze. Debt is not the problem, it's the fact that this country can't control its finances responsibly.
@jayers2 Look at what I said. The Federal Reserve has been the cause of all this because each printed note adds that more interest to the debts we've piled on. "Debt is good" is the mantra of wanton spenders who inevitably will lose control of finances. Debt sucks for small-time lenders, but it's an excellent ball-n-chain for controllable slaves, for who can a slave master control if nobody's indebted to him? Perpetual indentured servitude.
@northmeister your no historian and not much of a history student. hamilton did shoot toward burr and actually hit a limb above burrs head, this is common knowledge and well written about by witnesses there that day, including each mans second. hamilton did write to a friend he intended to waste his shot, but he did not follow the strict protocol of dual if he meant to waste a shot, had he fired straight up, burr would of had to do the same for honors sake. everyone there agreed that burr did.
seems to me that jefferson took hamilton to school, and opened without a doubt the corruption of hamilton and his corrupt idea of a national bank which not only holed up the power of the individual and give it to a select few, as well as undermine the power of the states themselves, making a powerful central government. this is what happend by lincoln and we have gotten poorer and poorer to where now china owns us. so jefferson was right, and hamilton like clinton was out to sell the country.
Although this may be an oversimplification, it's ironic that back in the day conservatives like Hamilton represented businessmen and bankers and wanted big government while liberals like Jefferson represented farmers and workers and wanted smaller government. Today's conservatives still represent businessmen and bankers but they want smaller government while liberals still support farmers and workers but want big government.
This is a remarkable series. However, this clip contains an anchronism--Jefferson's use of the word "international," which was first used in the mid-nineteeth century.
@jbong1634 Why I'll be! Surely you must expound for simple ol me w/ this grand statement of yours: "Revolution, fear, and cowardice are all things that have nothing to do with Thomas Jefferson. Jeffy COMMANDS". See...what does Jeff. actually command? Perhaps you mean a horse? After all, during the Rev. war I do recall, while he was Gov. of Vir. he commanded his horse to flee(w/ him aboard) into the woods, leaving both family & vital documents behind as the British approached Richmond
@drocto21 You used the rape word, not me. Fact - Jefferson had sex with slaves. And this video is chock full of comments critical of Hamilton. Learn to read.
@efs120 Actually the youth, in their idealism and undying will, are often ahead of the curve. All I can see of Hamilton is one bad vibe after another. Most any problem we suffer in this borderline-defaulting country is the direct result of people like Hamilton who wanted more federalism, more government, and less freedom. I rather like his last years of life, when he began to change. He soon "found" his faith, favored social aid to the poor, and institutions that benefited the people.
No man, whether young or old, is capable of resisting the powers of strong emotional ties to personal beliefs. I agree, it's a showing of poor taste and lack of character when someone does something such as that, but I would not simply equate it to the actions of a teenager, merely the actions of a humans distaste for another.
@efs120 I'm sorry but please do not generalize all teenagers into one category. At the age of 17 I am a great fan of Alexander Hamilton and have a huge interest in American and European History. I believe that I know more history than more adults. In fact, many adults remain ignorant and disrespectful toward history. So please do not generalize an age bracket because not everyone is the same. Thanks.
@audadvnc hahaha but why Mr. audadvnc, why indeed add such a superfluous preposition? Since you assure the world that for you 'spitting' is a 'sublime pleasure', then, whatever predicate may follow makes no difference. If you are at a deceased relative's resting place, you also would have a 'sublime pleasure' at 'spitting' on that grave, or if you are in the local mall you would have a 'sublime pleasure' from 'spitting' and so on...So why waste time w/ extraneous prepositions Mr. audadvnc?
@audadvnc You have to understand that although this show depicted Hamilton as a selfish character, hes was in fact a realist. There is no way America could have survived the ever advancing process of the world unless he modernized its political and economic status. Of course there are a number of Hamiltons policies i could never agree with but Washington was no fool, he trusted Hamilton because he knew that behind this mans selfishness his experience and knowledge in the field was unquestionable
@audadvnc How stupid of you. Hamilton was brilliant and played an extremely important role in the birth of this country, even if you can't begin to understand it. I too have had the pleasure on several occasions to visit Mr. Hamilton's grave, and each time I have taken the opportunity to contemplate his incredible life and achievements, as well as those of all of the founding fathers.
@audadvnc how would that give you pleasure? Do you have any idea how hard Hamilton worked to co-found the country? It's ignorant, disrespectful people like you who seriously worry me.
It comes down to a simple question...why should the poor and elderly take cuts while the rich refuse to pay even 1% higher taxes? Who's suffering more because of the Republican destrucion of the economy?
Because I actually like reading entertain or well-thought comments about the clip itself, instead you and whoever are subjecting everyone else to a political circle-jerk. You're not going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you on a Youtube comments section. Go somewhere else.
@sedeyus Let them have their debate. At least they do show they have some passion in their lives. And, in a way, they're being relevant to this subject(Ham & Jeff); though not, I suspect, with what they quite imagine it to be. For OpieDJC is derive his parenthetical and abstracted notions from a presupposition that is the same as an avowed Hamiltonian, while Mozart1220's abstractions are actually the same presupposition as a Jeffersonian acolyte. I find the irony is very entertaining
Jefferson gets all the glory because of the declaration of independece. Too bad he was hypocrit on everthing from owning slaves to increasing the power of central government. There would have been no Louisianna purchase by Jefferson, which was unconstitutional, if it wasnt for Hamilton. He was the true genius. If there wasnt a Hamilton, the whole world would be communist prison. Thats why socialists, to this day discredit Hamilton and praise Jefferson.
@efs120 lol cmon now we are on a very important piece of history and you wanna bring up something that has nothing to do with the video or comment cmon dude
@efs120 lol how come no one realizes that juggalos hate southerners my name is to piss juggalos off much like my channell seeing how it has nothing but rebel flags on it and icp and them hate the rebel flag
Ironic, what Jefferson said about the Virginia farmer being held in debt to the New York stock jobber, when the not-too-distant future of the average Virginia farmer was overshadowed by one of the plantation owners, who worked to supply the needs of the England that Jefferson detested so much. Alexander Hamilton set up the economy of the United States with institutions that survive to this day, their longevity owed to their success. He was ahead of his time, and Jefferson was behind his.
It's fascinating for me to see the seeds of the Civil War being sown right from the outset of the Republic. It's not some hodge-podge of wars and policies and personalities, it's all one seamless narrative
Hamilton was a realist. But here is my issue with realists. They base their reality off of what they have already experienced. Jefferson was a dreamer, an idealist. And it takes true courage to dream in such a reality they lived in. Jefferson imagined. With imagination came prophecy as his words have become truth. 2:15-2:23 Hamilton was a patriot to this nation in his service. But his ideas were too realistic. His views insured repetitive history. Ron Paul 45th. I dream. ; )
@efs120 Hamilton was the war hawk of his day. Nowhere near as bad as a neo-con but not as good as Jefferson in my opinion. Hamilton would not like what he sees today but he shares far more guilt than Jefferson. Jefferson wanted a continuous revolution, Hamilton wanted a new powerful central government. Both are patriots but they are not the same.
@efs120 And you should go actually find a good history book on Jefferson disastrous presidency where he got to put a lot of those ideas of his to practice. If you actually know the history of the era you are able to see Hamilton in the light he deserves rather than just quote mining Jefferson the idealistic dreamer.
@23mbtx23 I will leave the rest of your lunacy alone and just point out something. If all that you here so indicatively proclaim(so indicative as to forget to provide any basis for such proclamations) was true then you must also proclaim the same notions about Washington. After all, it was G.W. who praised enthusiastically Publius, nominated H as his Treas. Sec, signed into law H's bank charter, adopted H's ideas for his Neutrality policy, gave his pen to H for his Farewell Address etc..
More like Jefferson takes Hamilton to school. Central banks never work for the people. And Jefferson was one of the greatest men to ever live. Ron Paul 2012!!!
@MrDtown15 I was going to say the same exact thing! How is Hamilton schooling Jefferson here? Jefferson knew that limited government would preserve freedom.
The thing I see with Hamilton's plan is that it assumes that government and only government can facilitate trade. Private businesses are capable of trading across the sea without the need for government. If they can't secure trade, then they either trade with other American businesses, or gain capital through other means. If they can't, then they simply go out of business. That's how a free market and free trade work.
@DimeLivesInUs though I could present many of my own arguments to the contrary of what you claim to see with H's plan; I shall abstain for now and simply point out that what is so very easy to attain in "abstract thought" - such as a free-market working logically, is not quite so simple in "actuality", - human-nature anyone?. The physiocrats(the originators of laizzez -faire) of France attempted to put into actuality or practice their abstract theories. Why, I ask, were they so disastrous?
@Kierkegaard73 Hey whats goin on buddy? Been a long time since we have had a back and forth (not interested in starting one, just saying) You need to tell your buddy Mozart here how to debate maturely and to realize that our country is going down the crapper despite his savior being in office (actually it wouldn't matter even if any of the other major republican or democratic candidates were there besides ron paul, we would still be on a downward spiral). Oh well, hope all is going well, cya
@DimeLivesInUs Private businesses require their governments to have treaties that facilitate trade. If government stayed out of trade and didn't have safeguards found in bilateral investment treaties, money would never flow between countries.
@efs120 I see your point, but I still see it possible for the government to own things that can be traded so money could flow between nations. I could be wrong, but i still see it as highly possible
@efs120 Well only as far as oversight and they would only look for things that could hurt Americans such as weapons, bombs, poisons for food/air, etc. Other then that I don't see why the government has to be involved in all trade. I could be wrong though, feel free to correct me if I am.
@Hightech90 What if contracts are breached? What if Saudi Arabia lets Texaco drill for oil, then kicks them out when they want to do it themselves and doesn't pay Texaco for the remainder of the contract? How can Texaco get their money back from another country if the governments don't have a trade agreement, or the governments aren't part of an international trade organization? If you don't have safeguards by governments, why risk trading in other countries?
Jefferson was way ahead of his time. He observes and interprets almost all of the situations of the time perfectly. He predicts the cause of the Civil War 70 years before it happens. Yes, slavery was a cause, but only the top 10% of southerners owned slaves, what are the other 90% fighting for? The answer is states rights! The North was sucking the South dry, the South had enough of it and wanted to leave, the North then blockaded their ports and the South began fighting as a result
@Hightech90 The top 10% were the ones that owned ALL the land, and thus were the ONLY ones who could "vote" to leave the union. The other "90%" probably didn't want anything to do with secession. And I have found that most "libertarians" want "liberty" for themselves, but don't mind limiting the freedoms of people they don't like (like Homosexuals).
@Mozart1220 Well I wouldn't consider myself a libertarian even though what I said in my previous comment would lead people to believe that I am. I would rather call myself an old school conservative as I am still pro life. I don't agree with homosexuality but I don't think the government should be involved in marriage at all. Who you should marry should only be between you, your spouse and your religion. Ron Paul has the same view.
@Mozart1220 Back to the Civil War, you could be right with the land ownership but the other 90% had to still work to gain money and if their bosses are going out of business due to the taxation for the benefit of the North I'd say they would be pretty pissed as well. The History books and the "experts" on the History Channel want to brand the South as a bunch of racists and that Lincoln freed the slaves. The truth is Lincoln didn't free a soul and the Emancipation was used for political purposes
@Hightech90 I am right about land ownership, and the South is trying to cover up and hide the FACT that their anscestors divided the nation over SLAVERY. You can call it "state's rights" but what it came down to was a group of rich plantation owners trying to protect a cheap controled labor force. Just like now, the richest people were the ones crying the loudest about "taxes". Greed is an old concept but we used to deplore it. Now we applaud it and THAT is what's killing the country.
@efs120 I am with you in agreeing with Mozart in that the rich are taking over even in todays world. However, I must question as to why you love Hamilton so much if that is the case? Hamilton wanted a national bank which created problems in the early days and thats why Jackson got rid of it. However, in 1913 a national bank would be reinstated and named the Federal Reserve. The Fed is the main source of all the problems we have had today. Jefferson wanted no such thing
@Hightech90 Hamilton wasn't a rich man looking to take over the world. He did not die rich. His widow had to fight for his pension so she could get by. He was a man who was doing what he felt was best for this country and he would be appalled at what is going on today.
@efs120 Oh I didn't say he was rich or that he didn't love the country. I just said that he wanted to create a system where the government (which has become controlled by the rich) could take over the finances of the country so easily in a national bank. Like I said, i respect the man, he will always be way better of one then I will ever be, but I just feel that he was very wrong on some things. Idk all of Jeffersons views so he could be wrong on something as well, but atm TJ had it right
@efs120 I respect Hamilton and believe he would be better than 90% of the politicians that we currently have, but I just believe Jefferson was more right in his solutions/beliefs.
@Mozart1220 I dont deny that the South had problems with slavery and getting rid of it. However, that does not mean that 100% of the blame should be put on the South for the war and if you believe that it does then you are a fool. Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri and Delaware were all "slave" states that did not succeed from the Union so evidently there were other issues then slavery and you are right in saying that states rights was one of them, but Northern oppression was also another
@Mozart1220 As far as the rich taking over, you are right in that accusation, but don't ignore the rich northerners doing the same at the expense of the south. Blaming the south for their problems is accurate, but you have to be fair in all accusations. Today the rich bankers are taking over and are protecting their buddies and thats why you have had the bailouts, etc that have taken place in the last couple years in America. That is why we must kick out Obama in favor of Ron Paul
@Hightech90 I like Ron Paul too for the most part, but if you think he's just going to be able to waltz into Washiington and change everythjing overnight, you are sadly delusional. Most likely he'd get there and find even his own party won't support him (See Jimmy Carter). Obama is doing fine considering the mess he inherited. It took us decades to get where we are, it's going to take even longer to get out, if ever. The only miracles are in the Bible, and even those are myths.
@Mozart1220 Well im going to stay away from the Religion debate. I'll just say we would probably disagree there. As far as Obama, hes worse then Bush. Increasing the debt by as much as he has is a disgrace. He has also kept us involved in wars (and even added Libya) and has extended Bush's patriot act so he is no different then him. Ron Paul wouldn't change things overnight, but I think true conservative members in the Republican party would follow his lead on some key issues and even some dems
@Hightech90 Saying Obama is "worse than Bush" proves you are just another embarrassed Republican grasping at straws. One big reason Obama "increased the debt" is because he actually counted the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, which Bush did not. Starting with Reagan, and his cutting the top tax rate in half, Republican policies have nearly bankrupted the nation as a whole, while making that top 2% richer than ever. Libya is a NATO action, in which we participate, unlike Bush's wars
@Mozart1220 Im not a Republican, used to be, but then I discovered truth. Both Republicans and Democrats are the same and have been for many years. Obama, the Bushs, Reagan, Carter all have increased the debt. I can see why many loved Obama, but he promised to pull out of Iraq, hasn't happened, get rid of Guantanamo, hasn't happened and has spent more then all of the presidents in history combined. If you hate Bush's wars then why do you support someone who hasn't ended them or has even tried?
@Hightech90 Just as I thought, an embarrassed Republican. Obama has only "spent more" because he actually includd the cost of Bush's wars in the budget, and if you look at how FDR got us out of the depression, it was by SPENDING MONEY which stimulates the economy. Also, you can't just "turn off" a war overnight. Obama has greatly lessened our presence in Iraq, and has given a timetable for withdrweal from Afgan. What more do you want? Oh yeah, instant miracles. Change takes TIME.
Hamilton was ahead of the curve of tyrants. Taking the liberties away from others. Hamilton was an intellectual midget amongst Jefferson.
rhslinebacker33 2 days ago
There is absolutely a need for a Treasury and a national debt. Jefferson acknowledged this. However, Hamilton's and Jefferson's differences were rooted in the idea of monetary policy and central banking. Even the first central bank, far more modest than the Federal Reserve System, was very inefficient and corruptible; the Bank gave the central government and private bankers too much power. It bound farmers to Londoners and New Yorkers, caused panics, and made the dollar worth less to the people.
Surouness 6 days ago
Adams wasn't blind to the dangers of capitalism and 'aristocracy' run amok, but I think he saw a strengthening of the federal government in international eyes as preferable to the issues of currency the United States had in this period, and essential to ending the trade war with England. Jefferson was correct in predicting the reasons for the madness of westward expansion, through to the 1850 compromise and the civil war. It's certainly not about the genius of Hamilton, going on about 'Union'.
MikhailBakunin 1 week ago
Say what you want. Hamilton was a genius and did so much to help our early country. Politics change. Use some type of reletavism when looking back into history. Also some people commenting on here should actual do more than watch this miniseries if they want an understanding of history.
btp248 1 week ago 4
"Incur a national debt" Is $15,000,000,000,000 enough for you?
emtpilot132 1 week ago
The Hamaltonian and Jeffersonian argument still persists. Do we want a powerful central authoirty in whom once has power runs with it like a mad man, or as Jefferson saw, the states are independent to the degree that they are united under the bill of rights. Hamilton even as stated in the clips says if the states own the centralized power money so even at the early outset, the founders saw the states very independent and seperate through united under the Constitution.
Bigturns33 2 weeks ago
Hamilton was the greatest politician in American history. He provided the economic framework for the country, helped write most of The Federalist Papers (the most important and influential documents in American politics), and was the leader of the Federalist Party, a political party that used rational thought, unlike the Anti-Federalist who were paranoid and ignored common sense, instead using a simple ideology as their argument.
CooleyReviews 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You all should watch the youtube video titled The Founders' Dark Side and see if you're still sympathetic to Madison and Hamilton. Seriously, it's only a minute long and it covers so much that they don't teach you in school. Sources are cited, too.
reader642 2 weeks ago
"Mr. president and nothing more." I wonder what he meant by that. And does this mean Adams wasn't part of the inner circle.
TheSololobo 3 weeks ago
@TheSololobo If I recall correctly, it was Adams who tried to create a title of nobility for the president and vice president of the United States and that was Washington's response to the idea. Adams was cast out of meetings until much later in Washington's presidency.
T0PSLAYER117 3 weeks ago
@T0PSLAYER117 I had forgotten about that. I can't say I saw the whole mini-series, but from what I saw- I don't recall the portrayal of this bit of info(the nobility issue); which if it wasn't shown is not a full and honest portrayal of whom Adams truly was. A flaw that outweights all of his virtues IMO.
TheSololobo 2 weeks ago
@TheSololobo It was shown not long before the scene taken place here, in the same episode I believe.
T0PSLAYER117 2 weeks ago
All things aside about each man involved here, Jefferson practically predicted the future. The economic troubles we are having today are being caused by EXACTLY the chain of corruption Jefferson speaks of.
maedhros15 1 month ago
@maedhros15 And Hamilton predicted what would eventually make the United States a super power. Did you ignore John Adams here?
Trentonater47 1 month ago
O yes. No doubt here. This is also the centrarl part of how one saw that the U.S. would have a war between the states aka the "CIVIL WAR". It was not so much about slavery though that was a big part. For the most part, the civil war was about what Jefferson said in the clip. That farmers would be paying people in the North to pay the people that we just fought against. Until one realizes this it will never change. P.S. Slavery is deplorable and horrible.
Bigturns33 2 weeks ago
HAMILTON > JEFFERSON
jeter0000222 1 month ago 4
Wow...Even in the beginning the Vice President was treated like crap.
TheFrogger15 1 month ago
Hamilton was terrible. I don't care if he was "instrumental" in the founding of this country. Ya, he sure was. Thanks to his type of thinking, this country has been stuck with the Federal Reserve System for the past hundred years! Jefferson ended the 1st National Bank, Jackson ended the 2nd. It's time to end the 3rd!!!!!
RileyE104 1 month ago
@RileyE104 The first charter ended in Madison's term, so how did Jefferson end it? Madison even brought it back.
efs120 1 month ago 5
@efs120 Jefferson was the leader of the movement to get rid of it.
RileyE104 1 month ago
neeley!!!!
LegacyPaintball7 1 month ago
I'm sure that God the Father gives a rat's ass about "politics"...NOT. I'll take Jefferson over Hamilton and his perverse view of economics. Read "your" freaking history...he was a "wo is me" growing up. He felt he had a lot to prove, running and trampling over people to the top. However, Aaron Burr proved to be a better shot, now didn't he? Was Washington perfect, hell no! Was Jefferson perfect, hell no! Were any of these guys perfect, hell no! But Hamilton was an asshole much of the time.
coatlicue2012 2 months ago
@coatlicue2012 Hamilton didn't shoot at Burr, read "your" history.
efs120 1 month ago 5
What an incredible piece of historical portrayal. The dialogue is a Civics lesson wrapped in a history lesson, and it applies as much today as it did then. A MUST viewing for anyone interested in the way history and current events are relevant to each other.
geocas1960 2 months ago
Hamilton didn't take Jefferson to school, Jefferson's chief concerns are pretty much the problems we're seeing now. Go figure, it's almost like they had seen it happen before.....oh wait, they already dealt with this shit in England.
FiveofHearts1 2 months ago
Thomas Jefferson AND Stannis Baratheon? Stephen Dillane is the luckiest actor ever.
vettels6 2 months ago
@efs120 I'm a teenager and I'm embarrassed to live in this generation with teens who are ignorant and take a lot for granted. One person didn't even know who John Adams is.
GamekidCentral 2 months ago
"I fear our revolution will have been in vain if a Virginia farmer is to be held in hock to a New York stock jogger who, in turn, is in hock to a London banker. Opportunities for avarice and corruption would certainly prove irresistible."
DAMN STRAIGHT - CAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAS HAPPENED!!!
Mr. Jefferson, it's high time for that 20 years' revolution of yours to make haste!
musicalidea 2 months ago
Alexander Hamilton left the constituional convention in protest & had no vote there afterwards. He wanted a lifetime federal governer with an absolute veto to appont state governers. He wanted a life time senate. He was against the bill of rights. everything he proposed was unconstitutional & his friend Justice Marshall let him get away with it. Hamilton is the reason the Federalist party died & the Anti-federalist would rule under one party name or another for the next 60 yrs.
LexNaturalis1982 2 months ago
@LexNaturalis1982 pardon me for asking, but I do not grasp your indicative denouncement of Ham proposing a Senate for life [on good behavior]? Have you considered maybe it might be beneficial: Curbing the power of Int. Groups by no popular elections w/Sen, provide a block in Congress against rash demagogic leg. from the House, provide a personal propertied interest in Congress, fulfill their Constit. role more completely w/treaties & Pres.nominees? H's idea is intriguing in the very least...
Kierkegaard73 2 months ago
@Kierkegaard73 He was laughed out of the constitutional convention. He enjoyed the support of no one. Not one founding father seconded his proposal. He left the convention in protest and lost his voting privilage when he returned without the other two delegates. He then worked his entire life trying to subvert the constitution in to the plan he couldent get passed at the convention, opening up opportunity for government corruption by destroying article one section eight. Thank you Burr!
LexNaturalis1982 2 months ago
@LexNaturalis1982 fascinating, since I have read Farrand's 'Records of the Federal Convention(as well as the Papers of A.H.) & strangely I do not recall a single reference of other delegates laughing him out of the Con. And, as I recall, he had a private law case to attend to back in NYC, & that G.W. himself wrote pleadingly for him to return. Yates and Lansing were sent by Clinton to nullify his vote. But this is off my topic. Again I ask, why is Ham's proposal of the Senate. so bad?
Kierkegaard73 2 months ago
fuck you hamilton
TheJoec2005 2 months ago
I find it remarkable how much passionate disputes there were over foreign policy.
Even the Federalist would have been at war with Washington were they subjected to all the evils we must now 200 years later deal with from the same.
I know this because they nearly did over far lesser matters.
Monorprise 3 months ago
Hamilton should have been hung. I once saw a princeton faculty debate about who was better..jefferson or hamilton. and of course, all the shithead professors voted Hamilton the wisest. short sighted piece of shit. hang him i say!
bullshit3118 3 months ago
@bullshit3118 Do you work at being this stupid? Or does it just come naturally to you?
efs120 2 months ago 6
@efs120 this sort of stupidity takes more than hard work or natural ability. It requires a bit of divine inspiration as well.
tikletik 2 months ago
@efs120 bullshit3118 is right. The PRIVATE central bank is the main reason for this nations problems since it's founding in 1913. Do a little research and less name calling and you will become enlightened.
27thedirector 1 month ago
@27thedirector He's right that Hamilton should have been hung? You're an idiot, too.
efs120 1 month ago
@efs120 Not hung. We should've sent him over to tyrannist Britian where he belonged. He had no interest in Democracy. He had an interest in Power, and the ability to dictate the actions of others. While Jefferson was a God.. BOOM!
TKROKS 1 month ago
@TKROKS hahaha yeah a god alright. Let's take a glimpse at ol' Jeffy, shall we? He organized a smear campaign against A H & G W using Fed funds to aid an opposition press, he tried to get Cong.; both as Sec of State & later as Pres. to forbid trade w/Britain, He had some very interesting convos with French ministers Genet & Latombe that some might call a wee bit subversive if not treasonable. His Kentucky Resolutions,well, we all know what those eventually justified. shall I go on? BOOM!
Kierkegaard73 1 month ago
@27thedirector he took our debt which was trading at 25 percent par and had the debt trading 110 a premium. Jefferson did not destroy the bank because it worked it united the nation and prevented a civil war and economic collapse
at the time the federal government needed to be stronger the factionalism and regional power battle had prevented Washington from getting supplies and troops during the war.
do a little research you will be enlightened. look at all sides not just propaganda
sfafasfasfsa 1 month ago
@bullshit3118 I once saw a bunch of rednecks debating whether Miller or Budweiser was better...they agreed to just get wasted.
jamesetimmer 2 months ago
*Jefferson took Hamilton to school
PIAF22 3 months ago
Great scene. Possibly the greatest political rivalry in American history.
MJSpiritual 3 months ago
We have adopted Hamilton Theory officailly in 1913 when Woodrow Wilson sign the Federal Reserve act.....
Its amazing that Thomas Jefferson, without establishing their central bank at the time, he predicted Hamilton's theory was going to shit.
Ron Paul saw Hamilton's theory 30 years ago while its occuring.
But still, when i see the GOP debates i see 1 Thomas Jefferson (Ron Paul. 2 if you include Gary Johnson) going up against 7 Alexander Hamiltons.
Jefferson has to win or we're all doomed
moctezuma112 3 months ago
@moctezuma112 Hamilton was a Federalist. The Republican candidates are the polar opposite of some of his views.
efs120 3 months ago
@efs120
what are the some views though?
moctezuma112 3 months ago
@moctezuma112 The need for a strong federal government is the most obvious one. He would be appalled at most of these candidates. Hamilton's views on the Commerce Clause, for instance, would line up with Obama and be completely the opposite of any Republican candidate.
efs120 3 months ago
@efs120 The federal reserve is a private internationally run theres nothing FEDERAL (AMERICAN) about it. Most Republicans support corporate facism disgusing it as capitalism. Meanwhile democrats are more of the same (spinless cowards). The politicians both dem & repub have sold this country out ppl need to realize that & stop with the divide & conquer/ diversion of attention antics.
chakazulu87 2 months ago
4:04
Being the first president of the land of the free must be extraodinary. that end of the scene left me confused
When he said "Its Mr President, and nothing more" did he say that because he is super over committed to do his job? or did he have a problem with John Adams in the past?
moctezuma112 3 months ago
@moctezuma112 An earlier scene showed Adams coming up with grand names to refer to the president, in the same vein as Your Majesty. Washington did not like that.
efs120 3 months ago
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't the president referred to as "Excellency" in those days?
Christopher71488 3 months ago
The only schooling I see is Thomas Jefferson schooling Alexander Hamilton and John Adams.
classicallyliberal 3 months ago
@classicallyliberal I don't know what video you're watching.
TheSirPrise 3 months ago
David Morse is terrific as Washington. Brilliant casting.
Narboink 3 months ago
As for the Civil War, there are many people you can blame for that. The only thing that could have prevented civil war was a shift out of agrarian economy in south, thus preventing the need for slaves. Banning the importation of slaves made the south treat slaves more humanely and let them reproduce... instead of working them till death and buying a new one they became more like the family pet, people say they love their pets but they still kick them.
warningfireexit 3 months ago
Why do people hate Hamilton? Burr who shot him, should have been hung for murder. Hamilton shot his gun in the air and had no intention of fighting the duel - he was a man of principle. Jefferson was a man of principle as well.
Also Hamilton never suggested a Federal Reserve, which may I add has never been audited.
warningfireexit 3 months ago 2
Hamilton didn't rip Jefferson a new one. Jefferson pointed out Hamilton's flaws while simotaneously predicting the Civil War 70 years before it happened.
Pacers317 3 months ago 2
Thanks to Hamilton, we have the money to fund public education; therefore, creating your not-always-accurate opinions. Hamilton was not an angel, but he shaped USA's economic system. Do you want me to go over Jefferson's defense of the slave market?
gorto27 3 months ago
Ahhh yes Hamilton, the founding father of crony capitalism in America. Jackson and Jefferson for me please. Kill the bank.
BlackNGoldBuff13 3 months ago
I'd spit on Hamilton's grave or anyone else who tried to violate my rights whether now or in the past.
HammerOvThor 3 months ago
This is essentially chapter 8 of my APUS History textbook.
bennihana123 3 months ago
Without Hamilton, we would not have the Constitution, and without Hamilton, the modern industrialized and modernized American economy would not have come to be. Hamilton was a revolutionary forecaster, seeking to enhance and improve the Union. Without Hamilton, the US would have never come to be in it's modern form.
TheFederalistVoice 3 months ago 2
And to think in those days it was easier to reach a bipartisan agreement than it is now, even with Jefferson and Hamilton as opposite as they were. They were oppositely charged, & reflected the government. Neither Jefferson nor Hamilton fit the mold of a good President. Someone scholarly like James Madison should have been 3rd after Adams. Madison who had worked with Hamilton & Jefferson could have balanced (with patience) both to a level that only George Washington could exceed.
AnotherStatsGuy 3 months ago
"Mr. President, and nothing more" Amazing man
lonewolf9567 4 months ago
Hamilton may have been a rebel against the monarchy, but he just wanted tyranny in republican form instead.
BloodskullMannoroth 4 months ago
The greater the debt the greater the credit? Didn't work out a few weeks ago when ours got downgraded.
CitizenJohnSmith 4 months ago
Anyone else surprised it wasn't Jefferson that Hamilton faced in that duel?
AmericanNohbuddy 4 months ago
@AmericanNohbuddy Yeah, should've been. If Hamilton won, he could've been President :P
SlimAyDee 4 months ago
I'll choose Hamilton anyday against jefferson, Hamilton had the right ideas & understood the role of government in a economy, He thought economics was inherently political & thats absolutely correct, That the economic policy of a nation is always going to be political, no matter what rhetoric you bring forth
Hamilton is the founder of the American system of Politcal Economy, The vehicle of progress America, its was the main bipartisan school of thought from the 18th-20th century
Deal with it
dellbalboa 4 months ago 17
@dellbalboa And what shall bring America to her ruin!
I say congratulations are in order! Drink to the death of your own nation.
Sessylius 2 months ago
Without Hamilton's economic policy, The states would have succumbed to default, that would have had a catastrophic effect on a new nation, No investor would have bought their bonds
By making the debt federal & creating a national bank chartered by Congress, Hamilton created a national credit system aimed at improving infrastructure, encouraging industry, setting up protective tarriff against import, which detered competition, thus aiding local production & cutting out british based speculators
dellbalboa 4 months ago
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dellbalboa 4 months ago
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dellbalboa 4 months ago
Washington to Adams: GTFO
CrazyOldMaurice69 4 months ago 2
Alexander Hamilton founded American finance and economics. The United States eventually became the most prosperous and economically powerful nation the world has ever seen. So in high school I was told to worship....Jefferson? Why is Hamilton termed the evil genius when his ideas were so forward looking and profound that even the legendary people depicted at this table couldn't grasp what he was creating? While Jefferson's America would have most likely ended in warring city-states?
hoagiesupreme 4 months ago
It's been a while since i saw this serie but it sounds as pressident Washington is displeased with vice pressident Adams. What was that about again?
TheIcelandicPatriot 4 months ago
The Rothchilds!!! Glad they made this scene!
triofdoom 4 months ago
Those were the days...when men could wear lace and ribbons, silk stockings, and velvet and still be straight. Sigh...
jungefrau 4 months ago 33
This is a complicated period of American History. Neither Hamilton or Jefferson were right. I agree with James Madison. Hamilton's system is a good one but it should be in the hands of the people, this powerful instrument should be wielded for the American people. Hamilton thought "Only the right sort of person" should run it.
Meade556 4 months ago
Im sorry if I was in that era I wouldve been an avid Federalist and a supporter of Hamilton at least insofar as his views expressed here. His vision of the country is what won out while Jeffersons would have kept the US weak economically, politically and militarily.National debt is the way people governents gain credit and the lack of it explains the downfall of the Spanish empire.Dont blame the concept of national debt for irresponsible governments increasing it.
TheOffkilter 4 months ago
"School"?! We've seen what our national debt is doing...and we're not DONE seeing what disasters it WILL do! Centralized bank? Yeah, our Federal Reserve is even WORSE, because it charges us INTEREST on our own printed money!
History has proven Jefferson RIGHT!
QuartuvLarry 5 months ago
@QuartuvLarry "Debt" in and of itself is not a bad thing. It only turns into a negative when you build up to much of it and lack the means to pay it off. Ever since WW2, America has lived far above it's means by going on a spending craze. Debt is not the problem, it's the fact that this country can't control its finances responsibly.
jayers2 4 months ago
@jayers2 Look at what I said. The Federal Reserve has been the cause of all this because each printed note adds that more interest to the debts we've piled on. "Debt is good" is the mantra of wanton spenders who inevitably will lose control of finances. Debt sucks for small-time lenders, but it's an excellent ball-n-chain for controllable slaves, for who can a slave master control if nobody's indebted to him? Perpetual indentured servitude.
QuartuvLarry 4 months ago
@northmeister your no historian and not much of a history student. hamilton did shoot toward burr and actually hit a limb above burrs head, this is common knowledge and well written about by witnesses there that day, including each mans second. hamilton did write to a friend he intended to waste his shot, but he did not follow the strict protocol of dual if he meant to waste a shot, had he fired straight up, burr would of had to do the same for honors sake. everyone there agreed that burr did.
kingslegion1 5 months ago
seems to me that jefferson took hamilton to school, and opened without a doubt the corruption of hamilton and his corrupt idea of a national bank which not only holed up the power of the individual and give it to a select few, as well as undermine the power of the states themselves, making a powerful central government. this is what happend by lincoln and we have gotten poorer and poorer to where now china owns us. so jefferson was right, and hamilton like clinton was out to sell the country.
kingslegion1 5 months ago
Although this may be an oversimplification, it's ironic that back in the day conservatives like Hamilton represented businessmen and bankers and wanted big government while liberals like Jefferson represented farmers and workers and wanted smaller government. Today's conservatives still represent businessmen and bankers but they want smaller government while liberals still support farmers and workers but want big government.
wangsta25 5 months ago
@wangsta25 Ha, exactly! It's so ironic. It's like their opinions about government have completely reversed.
SlimAyDee 4 months ago
This is a remarkable series. However, this clip contains an anchronism--Jefferson's use of the word "international," which was first used in the mid-nineteeth century.
evergreenpotato 5 months ago
2:25: :-/
enterthedome 5 months ago
There is so much truth in this video. It's an astounding depiction of the great battles between the people and the money changers.
LivingthaDreem 6 months ago
@jbong1634 Why I'll be! Surely you must expound for simple ol me w/ this grand statement of yours: "Revolution, fear, and cowardice are all things that have nothing to do with Thomas Jefferson. Jeffy COMMANDS". See...what does Jeff. actually command? Perhaps you mean a horse? After all, during the Rev. war I do recall, while he was Gov. of Vir. he commanded his horse to flee(w/ him aboard) into the woods, leaving both family & vital documents behind as the British approached Richmond
Kierkegaard73 6 months ago
@jbong1634 Hamilton's big mistake was not owning slaves he could use for sex.
efs120 6 months ago
@efs120 wow, dont talk bad of hamilton but talk of raping slaves are permitted.
drocto21 5 months ago
@drocto21 You used the rape word, not me. Fact - Jefferson had sex with slaves. And this video is chock full of comments critical of Hamilton. Learn to read.
efs120 5 months ago
As a teenager, I once had the sublime pleasure of visiting Trinity Church in New York, and spitting on Hamilton's grave.
audadvnc 6 months ago
@audadvnc Teenagers are often quite ignorant of history and disrespectful. Since you seem proud of your actions, it looks like you didn't grow up.
efs120 6 months ago 45
@efs120 Actually the youth, in their idealism and undying will, are often ahead of the curve. All I can see of Hamilton is one bad vibe after another. Most any problem we suffer in this borderline-defaulting country is the direct result of people like Hamilton who wanted more federalism, more government, and less freedom. I rather like his last years of life, when he began to change. He soon "found" his faith, favored social aid to the poor, and institutions that benefited the people.
Gormanmod 6 months ago
@efs120
No man, whether young or old, is capable of resisting the powers of strong emotional ties to personal beliefs. I agree, it's a showing of poor taste and lack of character when someone does something such as that, but I would not simply equate it to the actions of a teenager, merely the actions of a humans distaste for another.
Vpointoh 4 months ago
@efs120 I'm sorry but please do not generalize all teenagers into one category. At the age of 17 I am a great fan of Alexander Hamilton and have a huge interest in American and European History. I believe that I know more history than more adults. In fact, many adults remain ignorant and disrespectful toward history. So please do not generalize an age bracket because not everyone is the same. Thanks.
cassielsmith13 3 months ago
@cassielsmith13 Fair points. Thanks.
efs120 3 months ago
@efs120 Could you please explain why John Adams was dismissed by George Washington?
TheSirPrise 3 months ago
@audadvnc: Why did you spit on his grave?
tomthefunky 6 months ago
@audadvnc hahaha but why Mr. audadvnc, why indeed add such a superfluous preposition? Since you assure the world that for you 'spitting' is a 'sublime pleasure', then, whatever predicate may follow makes no difference. If you are at a deceased relative's resting place, you also would have a 'sublime pleasure' at 'spitting' on that grave, or if you are in the local mall you would have a 'sublime pleasure' from 'spitting' and so on...So why waste time w/ extraneous prepositions Mr. audadvnc?
Kierkegaard73 6 months ago
@audadvnc You have to understand that although this show depicted Hamilton as a selfish character, hes was in fact a realist. There is no way America could have survived the ever advancing process of the world unless he modernized its political and economic status. Of course there are a number of Hamiltons policies i could never agree with but Washington was no fool, he trusted Hamilton because he knew that behind this mans selfishness his experience and knowledge in the field was unquestionable
livinglegend01 5 months ago
@audadvnc How stupid of you. Hamilton was brilliant and played an extremely important role in the birth of this country, even if you can't begin to understand it. I too have had the pleasure on several occasions to visit Mr. Hamilton's grave, and each time I have taken the opportunity to contemplate his incredible life and achievements, as well as those of all of the founding fathers.
RManBB2010 4 months ago 4
@audadvnc how would that give you pleasure? Do you have any idea how hard Hamilton worked to co-found the country? It's ignorant, disrespectful people like you who seriously worry me.
MichaelGiardinello 4 months ago
@audadvnc ..That has to be THE single most ignorant comment I have read in about a year. Well done.
WiseGuy5674 4 months ago 2
It comes down to a simple question...why should the poor and elderly take cuts while the rich refuse to pay even 1% higher taxes? Who's suffering more because of the Republican destrucion of the economy?
Mozart1220 6 months ago
I'll never get why people get in economic debates on the Youtube comments section which has a 500 word limit. Why not take it somewhere else?
sedeyus 6 months ago
@sedeyus I don't get why people read comments and then complain. If you don't like the comments DON'T READ THEM.
Mozart1220 6 months ago
@Mozart1220
Because I actually like reading entertain or well-thought comments about the clip itself, instead you and whoever are subjecting everyone else to a political circle-jerk. You're not going to convince anyone who doesn't already agree with you on a Youtube comments section. Go somewhere else.
sedeyus 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sedeyus Don't read the comments if you don't like them.
Mozart1220 6 months ago
@sedeyus Let them have their debate. At least they do show they have some passion in their lives. And, in a way, they're being relevant to this subject(Ham & Jeff); though not, I suspect, with what they quite imagine it to be. For OpieDJC is derive his parenthetical and abstracted notions from a presupposition that is the same as an avowed Hamiltonian, while Mozart1220's abstractions are actually the same presupposition as a Jeffersonian acolyte. I find the irony is very entertaining
Kierkegaard73 6 months ago
@jbong1634
I never said he had to answer me. This is a discussion. If he wants to respond he can, if he doesnt, well I guess he won't.
And I don't see how your comment about Asian people is relevant.
OpieDJC 6 months ago
Jefferson gets all the glory because of the declaration of independece. Too bad he was hypocrit on everthing from owning slaves to increasing the power of central government. There would have been no Louisianna purchase by Jefferson, which was unconstitutional, if it wasnt for Hamilton. He was the true genius. If there wasnt a Hamilton, the whole world would be communist prison. Thats why socialists, to this day discredit Hamilton and praise Jefferson.
tecumseh1175 6 months ago
IM A JEFFERSONIAN 100%
Southernjuggalo63 6 months ago
@Southernjuggalo63 And a juggalo?
efs120 6 months ago 2
@efs120 lol cmon now we are on a very important piece of history and you wanna bring up something that has nothing to do with the video or comment cmon dude
Southernjuggalo63 6 months ago
@Southernjuggalo63 Not every day you come across a Jeffersonian Juggalo.
efs120 6 months ago
@efs120 lol how come no one realizes that juggalos hate southerners my name is to piss juggalos off much like my channell seeing how it has nothing but rebel flags on it and icp and them hate the rebel flag
Southernjuggalo63 6 months ago
@Southernjuggalo63 Ah, a Confederate Jeffersonian Juggalo.
efs120 6 months ago
@efs120 whatever
Southernjuggalo63 6 months ago
This is the essential American argument. Large Centralized Government vs. Small Federalized government.
CrazyShakaZulu 6 months ago
I saw this more as Jefferson schooling Hamilton....
RileyE104 6 months ago
This was the first "Clash of the Titans."
mrdarbymeister 6 months ago
Jefferson RULES Hamilton! Read "The Creature From Jekyll Island"!!
savgal1211 6 months ago
Jefferson RULES Hamilton!
savgal1211 6 months ago
Ironic, what Jefferson said about the Virginia farmer being held in debt to the New York stock jobber, when the not-too-distant future of the average Virginia farmer was overshadowed by one of the plantation owners, who worked to supply the needs of the England that Jefferson detested so much. Alexander Hamilton set up the economy of the United States with institutions that survive to this day, their longevity owed to their success. He was ahead of his time, and Jefferson was behind his.
lissaleaves 6 months ago
Why is Adams barred from Cabinet meetings when he's the Vice President?
Dragblacker 6 months ago
@Dragblacker It wasn't his cabinet.
banduril 6 months ago
@banduril So Biden is absent from all Cabinet meetings?
Dragblacker 6 months ago
It's fascinating for me to see the seeds of the Civil War being sown right from the outset of the Republic. It's not some hodge-podge of wars and policies and personalities, it's all one seamless narrative
choochoo808 6 months ago
And what school was that? The school of tyranny?
Rorschach65 7 months ago
Hamilton was a realist. But here is my issue with realists. They base their reality off of what they have already experienced. Jefferson was a dreamer, an idealist. And it takes true courage to dream in such a reality they lived in. Jefferson imagined. With imagination came prophecy as his words have become truth. 2:15-2:23 Hamilton was a patriot to this nation in his service. But his ideas were too realistic. His views insured repetitive history. Ron Paul 45th. I dream. ; )
Jononutoob 7 months ago
@Jononutoob That's a very thoughtful comment, but it's not as if Jefferson was some schlub. He was President for 8 years.
efs120 7 months ago
@efs120 I never said he was a schlub. My favorite president was Jefferson. But you cant argue that Jefferson's words fall on many deaf ears today.
Jononutoob 7 months ago
@Jononutoob So do Hamilton's.
efs120 7 months ago
@efs120 Hamilton was the war hawk of his day. Nowhere near as bad as a neo-con but not as good as Jefferson in my opinion. Hamilton would not like what he sees today but he shares far more guilt than Jefferson. Jefferson wanted a continuous revolution, Hamilton wanted a new powerful central government. Both are patriots but they are not the same.
Jononutoob 7 months ago
@efs120 And you should go actually find a good history book on Jefferson disastrous presidency where he got to put a lot of those ideas of his to practice. If you actually know the history of the era you are able to see Hamilton in the light he deserves rather than just quote mining Jefferson the idealistic dreamer.
flarkfucky2 7 months ago
hamilton copied the bank of england, no?
dmax631 7 months ago
@23mbtx23 I will leave the rest of your lunacy alone and just point out something. If all that you here so indicatively proclaim(so indicative as to forget to provide any basis for such proclamations) was true then you must also proclaim the same notions about Washington. After all, it was G.W. who praised enthusiastically Publius, nominated H as his Treas. Sec, signed into law H's bank charter, adopted H's ideas for his Neutrality policy, gave his pen to H for his Farewell Address etc..
Kierkegaard73 7 months ago
@23mbtx23 That's what I said. I agree with everything you just said.
CarlChub 7 months ago
More like Jefferson takes Hamilton to school. Central banks never work for the people. And Jefferson was one of the greatest men to ever live. Ron Paul 2012!!!
MrDtown15 7 months ago
@MrDtown15 I was going to say the same exact thing! How is Hamilton schooling Jefferson here? Jefferson knew that limited government would preserve freedom.
CarlChub 7 months ago
The thing I see with Hamilton's plan is that it assumes that government and only government can facilitate trade. Private businesses are capable of trading across the sea without the need for government. If they can't secure trade, then they either trade with other American businesses, or gain capital through other means. If they can't, then they simply go out of business. That's how a free market and free trade work.
DimeLivesInUs 7 months ago
@DimeLivesInUs though I could present many of my own arguments to the contrary of what you claim to see with H's plan; I shall abstain for now and simply point out that what is so very easy to attain in "abstract thought" - such as a free-market working logically, is not quite so simple in "actuality", - human-nature anyone?. The physiocrats(the originators of laizzez -faire) of France attempted to put into actuality or practice their abstract theories. Why, I ask, were they so disastrous?
Kierkegaard73 7 months ago
@Kierkegaard73 Hey whats goin on buddy? Been a long time since we have had a back and forth (not interested in starting one, just saying) You need to tell your buddy Mozart here how to debate maturely and to realize that our country is going down the crapper despite his savior being in office (actually it wouldn't matter even if any of the other major republican or democratic candidates were there besides ron paul, we would still be on a downward spiral). Oh well, hope all is going well, cya
Hightech90 7 months ago
@DimeLivesInUs Private businesses require their governments to have treaties that facilitate trade. If government stayed out of trade and didn't have safeguards found in bilateral investment treaties, money would never flow between countries.
efs120 7 months ago
@efs120 I see your point, but I still see it possible for the government to own things that can be traded so money could flow between nations. I could be wrong, but i still see it as highly possible
Hightech90 6 months ago
@Hightech90 So the government still has to be involved at some level, though, right?
efs120 6 months ago
@efs120 Well only as far as oversight and they would only look for things that could hurt Americans such as weapons, bombs, poisons for food/air, etc. Other then that I don't see why the government has to be involved in all trade. I could be wrong though, feel free to correct me if I am.
Hightech90 6 months ago
@Hightech90 What if contracts are breached? What if Saudi Arabia lets Texaco drill for oil, then kicks them out when they want to do it themselves and doesn't pay Texaco for the remainder of the contract? How can Texaco get their money back from another country if the governments don't have a trade agreement, or the governments aren't part of an international trade organization? If you don't have safeguards by governments, why risk trading in other countries?
efs120 6 months ago
Jefferson was way ahead of his time. He observes and interprets almost all of the situations of the time perfectly. He predicts the cause of the Civil War 70 years before it happens. Yes, slavery was a cause, but only the top 10% of southerners owned slaves, what are the other 90% fighting for? The answer is states rights! The North was sucking the South dry, the South had enough of it and wanted to leave, the North then blockaded their ports and the South began fighting as a result
Hightech90 8 months ago
@Hightech90 The top 10% were the ones that owned ALL the land, and thus were the ONLY ones who could "vote" to leave the union. The other "90%" probably didn't want anything to do with secession. And I have found that most "libertarians" want "liberty" for themselves, but don't mind limiting the freedoms of people they don't like (like Homosexuals).
Mozart1220 7 months ago
@Mozart1220 Well I wouldn't consider myself a libertarian even though what I said in my previous comment would lead people to believe that I am. I would rather call myself an old school conservative as I am still pro life. I don't agree with homosexuality but I don't think the government should be involved in marriage at all. Who you should marry should only be between you, your spouse and your religion. Ron Paul has the same view.
Hightech90 7 months ago
@Mozart1220 Back to the Civil War, you could be right with the land ownership but the other 90% had to still work to gain money and if their bosses are going out of business due to the taxation for the benefit of the North I'd say they would be pretty pissed as well. The History books and the "experts" on the History Channel want to brand the South as a bunch of racists and that Lincoln freed the slaves. The truth is Lincoln didn't free a soul and the Emancipation was used for political purposes
Hightech90 7 months ago
@Hightech90 I am right about land ownership, and the South is trying to cover up and hide the FACT that their anscestors divided the nation over SLAVERY. You can call it "state's rights" but what it came down to was a group of rich plantation owners trying to protect a cheap controled labor force. Just like now, the richest people were the ones crying the loudest about "taxes". Greed is an old concept but we used to deplore it. Now we applaud it and THAT is what's killing the country.
Mozart1220 7 months ago
@Mozart1220 You are right about everything you say.
efs120 7 months ago
@efs120 I am with you in agreeing with Mozart in that the rich are taking over even in todays world. However, I must question as to why you love Hamilton so much if that is the case? Hamilton wanted a national bank which created problems in the early days and thats why Jackson got rid of it. However, in 1913 a national bank would be reinstated and named the Federal Reserve. The Fed is the main source of all the problems we have had today. Jefferson wanted no such thing
Hightech90 7 months ago
@Hightech90 Hamilton wasn't a rich man looking to take over the world. He did not die rich. His widow had to fight for his pension so she could get by. He was a man who was doing what he felt was best for this country and he would be appalled at what is going on today.
efs120 7 months ago
@efs120 Oh I didn't say he was rich or that he didn't love the country. I just said that he wanted to create a system where the government (which has become controlled by the rich) could take over the finances of the country so easily in a national bank. Like I said, i respect the man, he will always be way better of one then I will ever be, but I just feel that he was very wrong on some things. Idk all of Jeffersons views so he could be wrong on something as well, but atm TJ had it right
Hightech90 7 months ago
@efs120 I respect Hamilton and believe he would be better than 90% of the politicians that we currently have, but I just believe Jefferson was more right in his solutions/beliefs.
Hightech90 7 months ago
@Mozart1220 I dont deny that the South had problems with slavery and getting rid of it. However, that does not mean that 100% of the blame should be put on the South for the war and if you believe that it does then you are a fool. Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri and Delaware were all "slave" states that did not succeed from the Union so evidently there were other issues then slavery and you are right in saying that states rights was one of them, but Northern oppression was also another
Hightech90 7 months ago
@Mozart1220 As far as the rich taking over, you are right in that accusation, but don't ignore the rich northerners doing the same at the expense of the south. Blaming the south for their problems is accurate, but you have to be fair in all accusations. Today the rich bankers are taking over and are protecting their buddies and thats why you have had the bailouts, etc that have taken place in the last couple years in America. That is why we must kick out Obama in favor of Ron Paul
Hightech90 7 months ago
@Hightech90 I like Ron Paul too for the most part, but if you think he's just going to be able to waltz into Washiington and change everythjing overnight, you are sadly delusional. Most likely he'd get there and find even his own party won't support him (See Jimmy Carter). Obama is doing fine considering the mess he inherited. It took us decades to get where we are, it's going to take even longer to get out, if ever. The only miracles are in the Bible, and even those are myths.
Mozart1220 7 months ago
@Mozart1220 Well im going to stay away from the Religion debate. I'll just say we would probably disagree there. As far as Obama, hes worse then Bush. Increasing the debt by as much as he has is a disgrace. He has also kept us involved in wars (and even added Libya) and has extended Bush's patriot act so he is no different then him. Ron Paul wouldn't change things overnight, but I think true conservative members in the Republican party would follow his lead on some key issues and even some dems
Hightech90 7 months ago
@Hightech90 Saying Obama is "worse than Bush" proves you are just another embarrassed Republican grasping at straws. One big reason Obama "increased the debt" is because he actually counted the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, which Bush did not. Starting with Reagan, and his cutting the top tax rate in half, Republican policies have nearly bankrupted the nation as a whole, while making that top 2% richer than ever. Libya is a NATO action, in which we participate, unlike Bush's wars
Mozart1220 7 months ago
@Mozart1220 Im not a Republican, used to be, but then I discovered truth. Both Republicans and Democrats are the same and have been for many years. Obama, the Bushs, Reagan, Carter all have increased the debt. I can see why many loved Obama, but he promised to pull out of Iraq, hasn't happened, get rid of Guantanamo, hasn't happened and has spent more then all of the presidents in history combined. If you hate Bush's wars then why do you support someone who hasn't ended them or has even tried?
Hightech90 7 months ago
@Hightech90 Just as I thought, an embarrassed Republican. Obama has only "spent more" because he actually includd the cost of Bush's wars in the budget, and if you look at how FDR got us out of the depression, it was by SPENDING MONEY which stimulates the economy. Also, you can't just "turn off" a war overnight. Obama has greatly lessened our presence in Iraq, and has given a timetable for withdrweal from Afgan. What more do you want? Oh yeah, instant miracles. Change takes TIME.
Mozart1220 7 months ago