Socialism 2009

[utrapzab]

socialism - is that thing still going? how quaint,

[jermbrid99]

Socialism is the triumph of hope over reality and experience. But there are times when I envy those who are so blissfully naive as to how the world operates.

[scoobyDx]

looks like a fucking church. all these people chanting together. what a bunch of BS. it's the church of leftist dogma. no better then the evangelicals, same utopian garbage ideology.

[FrequencyLiberation]

@scoobyDx I agree wholeheartedly. they're more like a cult. although, some of the palestinian activists are good people, trying to do the righ thing, but caught in the dogma of so-called "socialist" groups.

[majorMcpharter]

Workers of all lands unite. Fraternally yours for a Classless Stateless Moneyless Socialist/Communist society.

[YouLeeMorresonTube]

Capitalism is a destructive idea with no merits.

We have lived and seen the capitalist system, and it's deregulation of trade and no taxation on the rich but heavy taxation on the poor has destroyed America and has destroyed the world; the ideas and actions of the Bush Administration are proof of this.

The ideas of income tax and free trade, which are fundamentalist capitalist ideas, has produced more disastrous results and have both been devastating for the less fortunate.

[spartan2600]

I was like the guy at 0:46, there was so much to do, not enough time.

[YouLeeMorresonTube]

Are you a socialist? Are you against the oppressive capitalist system? Are you for getting rid of poverty? Then the Centralist Party USA is just for you. Here is the weblink for the CEPUSA.

cen19[.]webs[.]com/ (without the hyphens)

If you like what you see, please help spread my website and Centralism to as many people as you can.

[Sam26100]

I think socialism is a destructive idea with no merits

We need capitalism where the government isn't allowed to tax people, or regulate trade

[rlgee]

Hey, Thrillrock,

Where ya from? If you want to go, maybe we can find a way to get you there! Folks coming from all over the country. :) Cheers!

[thrillrock86]

They need to hold conferences in more areas not just Frisco and Chi-town. I would like to attend one.

[porche75]

hey if you hate capitalism,

i double dog dare you to sacrifice EVERYTHING in your daily life that was made available or benefits you through capitalism. starting with your cable provider, your macbook, your competative mortgage broker, ipod, competative position at work, your competative salary if you have one,Trader Joes, Smart and Final, the quality of your plumbing, mac makeup, Ikea furniture, your discount travel agent.....

Let us know how that all works out for you. :o)

[Iowa656]

Are you being serious? All those goods would be produced in Socialism or Communism, just the workers wouldn't be exploited in the production process.

[porche75]

are you serious? Socialist and communist governments exploit their people. Under their systems the people have less power to fend for themselves.

WOW. You really think the government is the miracle worker.

[Iowa656]

You are obviously ignorant to what Socialism and Communism actually are. A government doesn't even exist in Communism. Government isn't the answer, real democracy is.

[scotts689]

@Iowa656 Your right thats how it exists in peoples imagination and in the debates between college professors but in reality it cannot work like that and never will. Communism and Socialism will always lead to tyranny as humans are not perfect and communism and/or socialism leave the door open to the most vile of people to take too much power.

[scotts689]

@scotts689 For example you said a government doesn't exist in communism but in order to bring about the reforms that are needed to turn a state into communism state a powerful government is needed because the rich are not going to give their property up without a fight. Therefore once they have done this why would those people then distribute the power, money and property out to the people.

[thrillrock86]

The Soviet Union and other Communist governments replaced corporate bureaucracy with a party bureaucracy that controlled the state. Instead of encouraging decentralized ownership through worker cooperatives they merely replaced who comprised the new ruling class. In the US we currently have a corporate bureaucracy that controls the 2 parties that control the state. Under our system people do have some ability to defend themselves but that comes from democracy not capitalism.

[porche75]

capitalism makes democracy efficient.

"Corporate bureaucracy" isn't the accurate term. Our govenrmnet can be considered a corporate bureaucracy. I think what you're referring to is the oligarchy. BTW, if the government had not interferred, many of them wouldn't be so big.

For example deregulation. Gramm is a neocon. He's a collective anarchist. He wrote deregulation and the commodities futures modernization act. He did this because of bribes from a few banks.

[porche75]

Deregulation, aka. the Glass Steagall Act of 1933 was passed to stop stockbrokers from trading houses. Now that the banks could write derivatives, deregulation allowed them to merge, becoming unnecessarily a powerful influence on the financial markets. so the brokers and banks could write homeloans.

They sold derivatives to create mortgage inventory for ARM loans.

Now because of their flaws they want to socialise the banks to save the bankers instead of putting the bankers in jail.

[porche75]

other examples of government interferrance screwing up the markets...the auto industry.

Way back in the day after Ford invented the car, the government pulled all kinds of tricks to push people to buy cars like removing public transit. Then they allowed the auto industry to monopolize, reducing competition so they can increase prices without being held accountable for the quality of the cars thorugh. This is why the auto industry failed.

[porche75]

another example of poor government interferrance.

Bush giving people incentives to buy SUV. The SUV's increased the demand for gas which raised the price for oil.

Clinton did this with education by giving freshman and sophomores taxbreaks for going to college. not as bad, but this increased the cost of tuition through demand.

The reason why I'm a capitalist is because i think the government needs to stop interferring with the markets. They're too corrupt to handle it.

[rednemesis88]

It's my understanding that one of the basic edicts of democracy is majority rule. The current US government puts the interest of that same oligarchy above that of the rest of the population. That oligarchy is only a small minority. So I really don't see how "capitalism makes democracy more efficient."

[thrillrock86]

Let me play you for a second. If you hate socialism so much, then you should cease to use the police, fire dept. postal service, public education, libraries, amtrak train services, social security, unemployment insurance, prescription drugs (research funded by the NIH), and your cell phone which exist to the extent that it does because of the space program and satellites. I would like to see how you get to Smart & Final or Trader Joes without public roads, highways, and sidewalks.

[porche75]

thrillrock86,

I have never used the police force or the fire department. I pay for the postal service, more often I use it's competition like the interweb and DHL. I pay for my own cell service, again the satellite success is a rarity amongst socialized programs.

Have you ever heard of privately owned roads? Toll roads? Roads made by the private sector?

I detest socialism. I would rather go without any of these things, I paid much more than what i get out of these things.

[thrillrock86]

I've never used the police either and luckily my house has never burned down. I pay for my own cell service, but I also recognize that the satellite system allows it to function as it does. I know about private toll roads and in my opinion they're a total rip off. I've used one about 5 or 6 years ago and they charged me if I could remember correctly about $5.00 for roughly 10 miles. I've had minor problems with the post office but I've had the same problems with their private competitors.

[porche75]

not to mention, none of these things would be possible without a private sector to tax or incentive to invent or market them.

Did the government invent roads? Did the government develop modern medicine? Did the government invent roads? Did the government publish or write literature found at these libraries?

I work, I don't take unemployment. I won't be getting social security anyways. Amtrak is a ripoff, driving is cheaper. And btw, I went to a private school.

[thrillrock86]

Are you saying that the private sector is the victim of government taxation, because in reality, capitalism needs some type national or state infrastructure in order to maintain its expansion. As for medicine, neither the govt. nor capitalist develop them, people do. Most of the innovative research is done in the NIH or in the universities most public some private. Public rail sys. are much more efficient in Europe & Japan because there's more investment in rail the US invest in roads.

[porche75]

no, the people are a victim of government taxation.

Most of our innovations have been pursued for private benefits. Look at the millions of patents the government has on file.

[rednemesis88]

It seems you don't know what real socialism is so allow me to enlighten you. It's about protecting, advancing and upholding the collective political and economic interests of the workers, farmers and non-commisioned soldiers (in this case) of the United States of America. Such a government would not stop such products and services from being produced. It would just make sure that said companies would not abuse the workers and that farmers would not be blackmailed by the ruling class.

[indn178]

Obama voters!

[chrisgurl30]

cant wait for so9!

[guanshiyin1982]

The students united will never be defeated!

[mikeyboypdx]

I'm very excited, this will be my first conference. (Will be in San Francisco). Looking forward to meeting other comrades!

[NYCTeacher1]

Can't wait for Socialism 09!!!