Matthew Gonzalez Speech at Ron Paul Rally in San Francisco 9/4/10 Part 1

[residentzombie]

Much of the left of today are socialists.

[jlbarber54]

Nice post.  Yes, the left should find comfort with Ron Paul if they are freedom loving left.

[yviva]

@jlbarber54

no. paul is anti immigrant, anti-abortion, anti-single payer. no progressive could support someone like him.

[jlbarber54]

@yviva Like I said, only the freedom loving left could find comfort.  The socialists would need to find their slaves elsewhere.

[yviva]

@jlbarber54

huh? what about freedom of reproductive choice? what about freedom of migration? what about the freedom to access medical care? whatever. you libertarians are oriented toward selfishness. whoever can get theirs, fine. whoever can't, fine, regardless of how skewed the playing field is. carve the world up and let individuals claim to own parts of it, and deprive the rest of free movement & access. how free is that? the whole orientation is antisocial & sociopathic in my estimation.

[jlbarber54]

@yviva You have reproductive choice, don’t have unprotected sex, You are free to migrate, you are free to hire a health care provider (It is government intervention that has made it so expensive) OH, you want goods and services for free like the slaves gave to their masters. That is why I cannot be a liberal in today’s context, I don’t believe in slavery.

[yviva]

@jlbarber54

what the hell are you talking about? i'll do whatever i want to - when i can afford it. like a lot of people in this country & on this planet i can't afford much because a small group of people is making themselves extremely rich by robbing everyone else on the planet and raping the environment for profit. free? the rich are getting their riches for free by exploiting workers in sweatshops like slaves and taking all the profits of the work for themselves, etc. OCCUPY EVERYTHING.

[yviva]

@jlbarber54

health care is expensive because the medical, medical insurance & pharmaceutical industries are making a killing by making sick profits of of medical care & depriving people of necessary medical care. single payer is the only affordable way to provide people with medical care & both corrupt political parties are making sure that won't happen because they're taking bribes from the insurance & pharmaceutical companies.

[yviva]

@jlbarber54

and i don't only care about my own freedom to migrate, i care about anybody else's freedom to migrate. you think people are so free to do this or that? what fantasy world are you living in? did you get rich by running or investing in some dirty exploitive or environmentally destructive company? because that's generally how people get rich. & only the rich people in this world are free. they're evil, but they're free to do what they please.

[yviva]

@jlbarber54

you're so out of touch with reality that you must be writing either from an asylum or a corporate office.

[jlbarber54]

@yviva Health care only became expensive once the government got involved. If you want costs to come down then you must create and environment where the health care providers must compete for your money just like the plumber or food suppliers compete for your money. IT IS ECONOMICS 101… Due to the lobbying of the AMA and Big Pharma, Government guarantees their profits. We have a healthcare bubble just like we had a real-estate bubble.

[yviva]

@jlbarber54

do some research & look around the world and you will see that you are wrong. nations that have socialized medicine spend far less on medical care and every citizen is covered. the u.s. spends far more per person on medical care than canada, for eg. while 50,000 americans die annually from lack of access to medical care and many go with out due to unaffordable medical insurance costs or unaffordable medical insurance deductible costs. americans die so insurance co.s can profit.

[jlbarber54]

@yviva I have done the research... I have been studying economics as a hobby for 15 years... I am a sicko when it comes to research... If you really want to see the cost of health care come down, abolish health insurance. That will cause the health care providers (Doctors and Drug Companies) to lower their prices whereas they then are forced to compete for your dollar like everyone else in an economy. As it is now, they have a monopoly over us.

[yviva]

@jlbarber54

well if your "research" hasn't shown you the vast difference between both cost and health care delivery to populations as a whole, between the u.s. & canada, or the u.s. & britain, as examples of societies with commercial health care for sale vs. government funded health care you probably need to do some research on how to do research.

[jlbarber54]

@yviva Do you understand how the housing bubble was created? Government intervention created the housing bubble by holding interest rates artificially down thus attracting capital that would not have normally gone into housing.

The heath industry has a similar bubble in that the suppliers of health care are paid their rates by the government without allowing for competitive forces to lower prices. Any industry the government gets involved in creates financial bubbles.

[yviva]

@jlbarber54

i don't want to take much more time with this just a couple points: 1) the theory that free market trade creates competition and thereby the best quality & lowest prices for consumers of all goods & services has been disproven by the realitites on the ground. 2) housing bubbles are artificially created by an inequitable capitalist system. i believe in equitable housing and land distribution thoughout society. my criticisms of the current economic system go even deeper than yours.

[jlbarber54]

@yviva 1) LOL, where has that been as you say "disproven". 2) LOL, you sound like a little kid when you say something is so because you believe it. You realy should study issues and not just believe things your friends tell you.

[yviva]

@jlbarber54

look, i'm not interested in spending more time on this conversation. if you look all around the capitalist world, see the concentrated wealth & vast poverty & that's fine with you then your issues are really those of a psychological & ethical nature. or maybe you really have an inability to see what is actually taking place on this planet. & re: psychology, you may want to discuss your distorted thinking & social patterns with an expert in that field. they don't seem reality based.

[jlbarber54]

@yviva We do not have a capitalist world or country; we have a crony capitalist country and world. The world you are striving for will deliver a fascist country, Ron Paul is against both. Enjoy your lobbyist unconstitutional world.

[chorizo1337]

why was he speaking?

[8DoverNJ]

@chorizo1337 Check out part 2 of this video. It'll answer your question. He talks about the conference that Ron Paul hosted, where he and all of the 3rd party candidates in '08 got together to announce their agreements on ending the war, ending/auditing the fed, restoring the Constitution etc. In other words, there are certain issues that clearly transcend left vs right politics.

[yviva]

@chorizo1337

because despite the other political differences, paul & dennis are anti-war & he was making an attempt at coalition building, in a sense, on that issue, i think. still, i think it's a mistake for a progressive like matt to play a role in supporting or seeming to support someone like paul who is anti-immigrant, anti-abortion, anti-single payer, etc. i.e. who stands in opposition to human and egalitarian social values & politics, generally. (con't)

[yviva]

@chorizo1337

libertarians lack social values and believe everyone should be sinking or swimming on their own in this world. that's not a recipe for a humane or successful society. they think that all of the earth's resources should be privately "owned" by anyone who can get their hands on them, rather than shared by society. (con't)

[yviva]

@chorizo1337

& i think matt really lost his way when he endorsed dennis for congress. as if this one anti war potential representative would have influenced his party, while all the while he would have been endorsing other policies matt is diametrically opposed to.