Byron Katie - My mother is selfish and controlling 1/2

[Hauntedscotland]

if your parent is a full blown narcissist, there is no way being more understanding would lead anywhere. all one can do is run for one's life, and one should.

[MsSpiderification]

Thank you for posting this. I needed this message. BK's style of teaching is direct and cuts right thru the extra stuff to the heart of the matter.

[Leohasdoneitagain]

Byron tells people not to concern themselves with how others think and or to suggest to people that they might do things any differently whatsoever...

While she makes her living by doing that very thing.

Questioning the hypocrisy of that behavior is healthy.

Keeping to legitimate clinical treatments for clients is the ethical and fair thing to do. The above is just one person's thinking, and it should not be confused with well-founded clinical practices or psychology.

[Leohasdoneitagain]

Byron tells people not to concern themselves with how others think and or to suggest to people that they might do things any differently whatsoever...

While she makes her living by [u]doing that very thing[/u].

Questioning the hypocrisy of that behavior is healthy.

Keeping to legitimate clinical treatments for clients is the ethical and fair thing to do. The above is just one person's thinking, and it should not be confused with well-founded clinical practices or psychology.

[mermaidjkn]

@presentlightoftruth Why thankyou :) You just really made my day, I'd been really stressed :D

[mermaidjkn]

@presentlightoftruth Sorry,my mum was on my account. Far as I'm concerned from what I've seen of Byron Katie, it's mostly crap. I haven't even seen this video. However, could all Spirit-of-Christ-destroy-you- type comments please go to her- she's called naughtyreg ? Oh, and kudos to ya for a) sticking up for what ya believe in and b) being in one of the most underrated religions of all time in my opinion. I'm not a Christian but there's a lot of fantastic teachings in the bible.

[trappedsoul7]

hello katie, my mother is ignorant of me because i'm selfish controlling and manipulative. is that really true? no. turn it around! i'm ignorant of my mother because she's selfish controlling and manipulative. yes... Now THAT is true. she really is selfish and controlling, is she not. hello katie, i think i need to respect my values better. can that be true? no. turn it around! my mother needs to respect my values better. yes, because that's really her job. makes sense?

[IslandForYou]

@trappedsoul7 If you had read any of Byron's books you would know that you're only turning around your own issues that would bring you back into your own business..

[trappedsoul7]

@IslandForYou i read one of byron katie's books, and i agree with many of the things she said, i.e. that thoughts usually don't reflect reality and usually don't have any relevance regarding truth. my point is, if thoughts are generally not true, how can their opposites all of a sudden be?

if my mother doesn't have to respect my values, why should i all of a sudden have to? it doesn't make any sense. i am not trying to be disrespectful, it's just my opinion. please don't turn this around now ;)

[IslandForYou]

@trappedsoul7 Yes, but the difference is if it bothers you or not. You either stay or move away from those people. If your mother is disrespectful towards you - then she is the way she is - and like Byron Katie often says "You don't have to be a part of it". But when she is annoying to you then it's time to do something.. If you turn it around "I am disrespectful towards her" it might not be the right turnaround or the answer could be "sometimes".. or move to the next/replace mother to "people".

[matsgu77]

@trappedsoul7 The question is if it´s really her job to respect your values when the evidence of your reality says she´s not? Maybe it´s your job to respect the reality? You will have a lot mor difficulties changing her, don´t you think?

[MsSonya273]

@trappedsoul7 This is why Katie asks people to start the statements as judging another person. You fill out a Judge Your Neighbor worksheet, not judge yourself.

You can't control your ignorant, selfish mother. You can't change her thoughts. You can't make her believe new thoughts. No matter how crazy, ignorant, or selfish her thoughts are, there's absolutely nothing you can do about them. If your mother is toxic, best that you clean up your thoughts, instead of wishing to clean up hers.

[TadRapidly]

@trappedsoul7 The work addresses stressful thoughts. If you enjoy your stressful thoughts then there is no problem. Honestly.

[abby495]

So the daughter had to take the active role and not rely on her mother. The Mother is demoted if she is stunting growth. Mother has limitations and she is no longer authority on Self matters. She is demoted to child so Self can grow & especially if her power is causing harm.

[julclay]

Here's the perfect traumatic recreation.. Kadie manipulates this young woman into believing that it's unrealistic to want to be understood! Can anyone really believe that this is really helpful ?

[mermaidjkn]

@julclay To understand the work, you need to do it. It's a story that can never be told, it has to be lived. once you have experienced the magic of the work (and it HAS TO BE on paper or it won't work), because you want to change the situation you are in, only then you will understand the work.

[MsSonya273]

@julclay YES! I have a very abusive mother. I could make myself crazy wanting her to understand me. It's 100% unrealistic, and 100% never going to happen. So should I carry a cross all my life crying about it, or just accept that I don't have a mother who can understand me? I can understand my mother --- that's my choice. I can stop wanting her to understand me -- that's my choice. But I can never, ever, make my mother understand me.

[whoopsiedoop]

@MsSonya273 I can't get away from the conclusion that if my own mother doesn't find me acceptable, it must be true.

[MsSonya273]

@whoopsiedoop So try doing the work on that thought: "My mother finds me unacceptable and that means I am truly unacceptable." Is it true? Is your mother always right? Is her opinion the only one that counts? Can you really know that your mother's opinion of you is true? How do you live your life when you believe that you are unacceptable? Who would you be without that thought?

[julclay]

. Here's the perfect traumatic recreation.. Kadie manipulates this young woman into believing that it's unrealistic to want to be understood! Can anyone really believe that this is really helpful ?

[TadRapidly]

It's time to go home, L. This truth is home. Welcome home. :o)

[exwaan]

The game is dominance, the question is where the dollars come in.

[exwaan]

Katie is a far worse manipulator than her mother.

[olgaef]

i don't get it

[whoopsiedoop]

If they weren't, they wouldn't do it

[whoopsiedoop]

PARENTS are ego driven. If they really loved, they would not hurt their children.

[wakeupbuddha]

@whoopsiedoop Parents are ego-driven. Is it true?

[TadRapidly]

Blessings, Lesley!!  D

[TadRapidly]

Love to you, Heather!! D

[whoopsiedoop]

My parents controlled me all my life. I went out into the world believing I was as worthless as they said, and that I was killing them if I didn't accept it. That was their job?

[IslandForYou]

@whoopsiedoop Their job = That's what your parents did (or still do). That's who they are in your case.

[carrie84uk]

@whoopsiedoop i had a similar expirience. My worst nightmare is raising my own children in this way because its the only example i was ever set :(

[TadRapidly]

@whoopsiedoop right, so now you know how pointless it is to try to "change" somebody else. They don't need changing just like you didn't need any. Right? ;-) beautiful, baby! Thats the work.

[TheRealSaucyWench]

@whoopsiedoop So maybe they didn't do a good job. But it won't help you to always want them to change - they aren't going to. If you don't agree that you're worthless, then live your own belief, not theirs.

[whoopsiedoop]

@TheRealSaucyWench The trouble is it isn't my desire to separate, or give up those illusions I have of them. But it's my reality. I think I may have Katie mixed up with New Thought because I saw her book at a Christian Science bookstore.

[MsSonya273]

@whoopsiedoop Yep, that was their job. It's your job to love yourself anyway. :)

[whoopsiedoop]

@MsSonya273 I got more out of your reply to julcay, where you at least admit yr mom was abusive. I just read about the Judge Your Neighbor sheet & have no idea what that's about but if this "work" includes being very clear about her effects, then it could be a lot more useful than it looks from what then must be the very "end" of it, and all the stuff about "just accept it" means the opposite of what it seems in that you really you DON'T accept the issue/problem, you process & understand it.

[MsSonya273]

@whoopsiedoop There's nothing to "admit" -- my mom's abusiveness is not something I'm ashamed of. It is her business if she wants to continue to be abusive or not. It has nothing to do with me! :)

[szt1964]

I find this "counselling" style partly funny and provocative, however, to a bigger part I find it disrespectful and suasive. To my understanding any cognitive therapist has a more respectful style.

[eneffe]

"Respect" tends to exist for tip-toeing around others' emotional/feeling reactions. Can you see why she might not bow down to emotions people have, in reaction to blunt common sense? Could that be where the effectiveness is?

[sauerteigforscher]

@eneffe After 10 years of counselling, the answer to this is: there is no effectiveness without respect.

Pure, technical Cognitive Behavioural Therapy does not work either (My main approach is CBT, by the way)

[eneffe]

@sauerteigforscher - Consistently, the point seems to be delivered effectively, despite Byron Katie having never been under your counsel. Fascinating.

[sauerteigforscher]

@eneffe {yawn}

[szt1964]

Which effectiveness?

What are the site effects of her "style"? Any research on that?

[szt1964]

@eneffe I dont know any psychologist who would subscribe to this.

Obviously effectiveness means short term effectiveness. Means "instant effect". Well done, BK. Therefore you got a point, not all of what BK presenting is "bad" as it is anyway rooted in cognitive theory. The main critic is the black/white dualisms (one type of thought vs emotions) and the persuavive style which cuts off clients autonomy. If you do not know what I am talking about there is no point to continue the discussion.

[eneffe]

looks like you are right! (:

[TadRapidly]

@szt1964 that is because most psychologists are ego-identified. They are asleep. They live in a bubble. That bubble IS the ego-identified state. They feel separate so they can only project separateness. They will indulge a patient in their story because they themselves believe their own story and also feel victimized.

[MsSonya273]

@TadRapidly There are two clinical psychologists at The University of Washington student health center who have gone to Byron Katie's school and teach her method to their patients. I have mixed feelings about this. One of them is the director of mental health.

[TadRapidly]

@MsSonya273 what are the mixed feelings? You don't like BK's approach, you mean?

[MsSonya273]

@TadRapidly I'm not sure clinical psychologists should be using her technique. When I go to a psychologist, I expect them to use the techniques they learned when they earned their doctorate, not the techniques they learned in a week-long workshop.

[TadRapidly]

@MsSonya273 Whatever technique you use, the truth remains the truth and everything is leading us in that direction. One can speak about techniques all one wants to but the core answer is simply true forgiveness. There are a million ways to discover it.

[MsSonya273]

@szt1964 I have had cognitive therapy with two psychologists. One was useless after 4 months, and we agreed to stop therapy. The other was so brutal and rude I had to report her. And I only saw her 3 times! When I fired her, she insisted I come in to talk about why. I declined. I had to work through my experience with her with my next therapist, before we could get on with it. So I have to say...no. Therapists do not automatically have a more respectful style.

[robinspillman]

very good video! there is two sides to every story!

[humlina21]

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