So...if it's so popular and successful, I guess you won't mind if we make it optional for young people to participate in will you? I mean after all, we should have a choice on what to do with our money.
@cloudshe you are wasting your energy here. I am done. I can't figure out which is worse his history or his economics. I welcome your thoughts on our website fixssnow.org.
@FixSocialSecurityNow by coincidence, instead of replying to more nonsense, i thought i would reply to you, and then i found your post! sometimes you can learn a lot from a good debate, but this one has gone incredibly stale. maybe if we're lucky the kool-aid addict will go away (and hopefully forget to vote)
@cloudshe I am interested in your thoughts on our site, fixssnow.org. We are trying to create a 1-stop shop for people who are worried about Social Security. We want to well-rounded view, and that is somewhat difficult to form because everyone who writes for the site thinks it is a structural mess. If you find something flawed on the site, write a counter-piece and we will publish it... contact@fixssnow.org or joetheeconomist@gmail.com thanks
@FixSocialSecurityNow "you are wasting your energy here. I am done. I can't figure out which is worse his history or his economics. I welcome your thoughts on our website fixssnow.org. "
Translation: "My argument is an utter failure, I'm starting to realize I'm wrong! Better go back to my echo cham- errr website, to reinforce my old views!"
@ReFlex76xx When paying back debt is a luxury as you said, there is no real debt. I know that I will regret asking but what unfunded fallacy are you talking about. The Social Security Admin says that the liability is 17.9 trillion. That is larger than the national debt. You can raise taxes on the rich to 100%, and it will not pay that bill. Or is SSA part of a larger right-wing conspiracy to make Social Security look inept.
@FixSocialSecurityNow Actually, I was born in 1976. Whatever issues developed in 1981 (primarily from higher oil prices) did not merit the destructive "fixes" we got. If there is justice, Milton Friedman is in a very warm place right now.
@ReFlex76xx, Actually a tax increase for Social Security will pull revenue away from other taxes - like income taxes. As you pull taxes away from the general fund you make the debt situation here worse ( or maybe Germany will bail us out). You are counting on your generation doing what no other generation has done. Which do you think is more likely: Your generation raising both income and payroll taxes or raising inc tx and lowering payroll taxes.
@FixSocialSecurityNow Now we have someone who can't tell one tax from another. It's not either-or, you pay both; and yes, there's plenty of money to pay both. We have an under-taxation problem, it's time to fix *that*.
@ReFlex76xx, "No Debt" in Social Security? We don't call it debt, we call it an unfunded liability. If you look at the present value of existing promised benefits and you subtract the 2.5 trillion in the trust fund - the system is more than 20 trillion in the hole!
@FixSocialSecurityNow Ah yes, the "unfunded liability" fallacy, where having a child automatically puts you ~$180,000 in debt. Sad there are people still falling for that. I'd rather focus on *real* debt.
@ReFlex, "creates demand". Your idea of "spending money" is coming from someone who isn't spending it. Social Security moves money from bank account to bank account adding a layer of operational expense. It makes our goods more expensive in world markets. It encourages people to retire - ie not work not spend. The only job it creates is Sam's who job as the village idiot really doesn't add to the economy.
@FixSocialSecurityNow So, there's a reality where retirees don't spend. Seriously, someone actually said that! Anyway, give them money, create demand, create jobs, end this nonsense.
@ReFlex76xx The money you are giving comes from someplace - the working generation who spends less, destroys demand, destroys jobs. You have created nothing but a layer of overhead that makes goods produced here less competitive. So we ship jobs overseas, and import goods. That is the demand you are creating.
@FixSocialSecurityNow Yes, that money comes from someplace; and *that* money comes from someplace; and *that* money comes from someplace. Nice of you to admit giving people money creates demand!
One more time, pretend I am 35 and about to inherit my share of your debt. And you are telling me that you are raising your taxes to fund your retirement account but you aren't raising taxes to control the deficit that you plan for me to pay. Here is the kicker. You expect me to fund your retirement beyond paying off your debt. Tell me how that works one more time...
@FixSocialSecurityNow As a matter of fact, I actually am 35. I know that said retirement account is also *my* retirement account. I know there's no debt in said account (a $2.1 trillion surplus), so any tax increase will only help stabilize it. Also, I know said "tax increase" will only happen if I make over $100,000 a year, in which case I won't mind my excess money being used to help.
"not only makes sure everyone actually pays their fair share" This is comical. The high wage earner already pays more than his fair share. According to the SSA, high-wage earners today can expect to get back 0.40 for every dollar, where as a low-wage earner can get back more than $2. Basically the higher income Americans are the ONLY ones who pay their fair share.
@FixSocialSecurityNow Well, if you're a high-wage earner, you already get more than your fair share. I also have a feeling that SSA figure doesn't include public roads, public utilities, clean air, clean water, etc. If you make over $200,000, you no longer contribute to Social Security by July, yet will still get full benefits. This is *not* fair share by definition.
Social Security creates nothing. It transfers poverty from the elderly to the working generation. There is no demand created. In fact, it simply increases the cost of production. CBO projects that cutting FICA from 15.3 to 13.3 will create between 2.5 and 7 million jobs.
@FixSocialSecurityNow It most certainly creates demand (no amount of denial makes that go away). Demand = spending money (hint: Social Security checks!)
- If it's by tax cuts, the jobs are temporary by definition. Long-term, tax cuts are quite destructive.
"meanwhile 3 million jobs have been created" What jobs? We have lost more than 1 million private sector jobs since 2000. That includes private sector jobs which do nothing but service the public sector. Jobs have been created by debt which does nothing but pulls demand forward. Debt is the problem not the solution.
"Paying down deficits is a luxury for good economic times." First, you don't understand debt if you think paying it back is a luxury. Second, I would like to know when the good economic times will be. We haven't paid down debt in nearly 60 years. Clinton claimed he did it once, and that was by moving debt off-balance sheet the way Enron did.
You are waking to the idea that Sam here is a little more than a parrot, jawing the Democratic line that Social Security doesn't add to the deficit. Only in DC can you spend 1/2 trillion dollars and it isn't part of your deficit. Oh no... that is coming from my left pocket not my right one. Social Security adds to the deficit by killing jobs, and collecting revenue that could be collected as income taxes. As a nation we are paying our retirement and borrowing on the kids credit card.
@FixSocialSecurityNow Actually, by providing money for people to spend (money they earned), Social Security creates jobs. Any product bought means money for the company that made said product, and the store that sold said product, and anyone who may have transported said product. Unless that money magically disappears, this eventually means more jobs!
@cloudshe Money for people to spend = demand = products boughtt = money to companies = jobs. Not that hard. Oh, and The American Jobs Act (Stimulus II) would have worked great had Congress not voted it down. $2 trillion for infrastructure, it's that simple.
@ReFlex76xx "creates demand". Your idea of "spending money" is coming from someone who isn't spending it. Social Security moves money from bank account to bank account adding a layer of operational expense. It makes our goods more expensive in world markets. It encourages people to retire - ie not work not spend. The only job it creates is Sam's who job as the village idiot really doesn't add to the economy.
not a big fan of reality are you. "spend our way to prosperity" is Not going to be an effective campaign slogan next year. americans are not that stupid
@cloudshe We already spent our way to prosperity in the 1930s and 1940s, reaping the rewards in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s. Campaigning in front of a dilapidated bridge, and promising to fix it, is a great way to get votes. Anyway, about $2 trillion to get our infrastructure back to an A rating (and all the jobs that entails) should be a good start.
@ReFlex76xx, raising the cap is just another nail in the coffin. America's youth will wake someday, and figure out that the boomers have left them 15 or 20 trillion in the hole. When they do, they are going to ask; why did you raise taxes to save your own retirement and put the rest of the government on them. In your world, the youth will pay for both the deficit that the boomers created and take care of the boomers in retirement. Just genius.
Anyway, *removing* the cap (raising it is a band-aid) not only makes sure everyone actually pays their fair share, it provides plenty more revenue. Far from a "nail in the coffin," a shot in the arm!
@ReFlex76xx "tax the rich more so I can sit on my fat ass" logic works every time, i'm sure. at least you're finally admitting that SS is indeed BROKE, what changed your mind?
@ReFlex76xx again, you are in denial. if it wasn't Broke it wouldn't need the Fix. and what a shame you are buying into the class warfare scam the libs are using to get reelected. take a long look at california, "tax the rich" has turned a beautiful, prosperous state into a financial disaster with a very questionable future
@cloudshe Actually, I can confirm as a Californian we haven't "taxed the rich" properly since 1978 (thanks a lot Howard Jarvis). This is part of the reason for our current troubles. I'm hearing more and more people coming around to repealing Prop 13, once a California third rail.
@ReFlex76xx, JoeTheEconomist Here. First, I never said that Social Security would last until 2029. I said that if you correct that laughably bad assumptions from SSA - that SSA says that it will last until 2029. There are hundreds of pages of the Trustee's report and yet most people only remember 4 digits. The worst assumption is that workers will put up with this failure for another 20 years. They will decide that paying down the deficit is a better deal. Income taxes go up - SS goes away
Here are Sam's conservative assumptions : 2.9% real interest = 2036. 2.1% = 2034. WHERE ARE WE TODAY!!!!!! 1.5%. A conservative estimate that Sam doesn't want you to hear is 1% at which point it is insovent roughly 2029.
what a bloody idiot. Sam I doubt you have even read the "conservative assumptions". I doubt that you know what conservative means. The Trust Fund do-nothing assumptions include real interest rates of 2.9%. That is going to be difficult to get if we are buying debt that carries a 2 7/8% yield. Are you think we going to have 15 years of deflation?
@ReFlex76xx pls check obama's 2012 budget (wh dot gov), over the next ten years he wants to increase GOV'T SPENDING fm 3.8 tril to 5.7 tril, a 49% INCREASE! how will he pay? besides INCREASING the debt by 7.1 TRILLION he thinks he will be able to tax an economy that GROWS by 63% (incredibly wishful thinking, remember how he predicted an unemployment ceiling of 8%?)
it's the SPENDING and the HUGE DEBT that is out of control, pls look at the facts before parroting your Obamapoints
@ReFlex76xx i guess you totally missed the point. look at obama's budget, if it makes sense to you you are acting incredibly blind to economic Facts (and History)
@ReFlex76xx how's that "unemployment seems to be well on its way to 8%" working for you? and interesting how the Ponzi Scheme has been recently identified and people are taking note. great "win" on the argument ;)
@cloudshe Unemployment under that 10.2% peak is working surprisingly well, thank-you-very-much; now, time to Pass That Jobs Bill! (or don't, it'll make for a fun sound bite in 2012!)
More "Ponzi Scheme" charges from the usual crowd; nothing new, already forgotten. Social Security still a great service, still a great investment.
Oh, and for some reason, the number everyone's talking about now is 99%! ; )
@ReFlex76xx wonderful! in someone's words "all we need now is for more people to quit looking for work". jobs bill my butt. more bailouts for the irresponsible blue states. green jobs anyone? oh, pissed Those taxpayer bucks away. gee maybe with 1/2 trillion we can get a temp bump in the economy in time for obama's reelection!
@cloudshe Yes, the Recovery Act did create 3 million jobs, thanks for acknowledging that! Green jobs are certainly a way to go, with solar the fastest growing energy sector. New New Deal now!
@ReFlex76xx you seem so sure about that! did you also believe the "obamacare will save us money", "if the rich would sacrifice a little more we could solve this problem", "bill ayers was just a casual acquaintance" "the police acted Stupidly" "you can keep your doctor/health plan" "Holder knew Nothing of guns being run into mexico" "Solyndra is a model for jobs and clean energy", no wonder you're okay with the SS being backed by IOUs and gov't "promises"
@ReFlex76xx 'red herrings' how amazing! yet i'm sure you believed all the 'evidence' against bush
btw those were 6 pretty weak comebacks imo, most of them a lot less True than My examples. but the current administration needs all the excuse makers it can summon, so at least Someone appreciates your effort
@ReFlex76xx i suppose you would pay for Medicare-for-all the same way you advocate paying for Social Security. how do you do that with a Failing economy? have you ever wondered why Madoff is in Jail? do the freakin math
@cloudshe A key to the economy not failing is fixing our failed health insurance system (hint: go with Medicare-for-all!) Oh, and we pay for it with the savings from not paying inflated private insurance premiums.
Madoff? We're talking Social Security and Medicare, do keep up.
@ReFlex76xx yes, right up there with 'we promised if you gave us all that stimulus money unemployment would stay 8% or below, but it would have gone even Higher!' BS
a shame your SS 'investment' has NO similarity to a normal Treasury bond, it doesn't have your Name on it, it cannot be cashed in or transferred, and when it comes due it may get paid out in some way totally different than what is being done now. you loan them money so they can pay previous contributors, just like Madoff
@cloudshe Sure, you'll be collecting Social Security when/if you turn 65, and you can thank people like me and Sam Seder for fighting to make sure did!
@ReFlex76xx i suppose if you and Seder Still believe the premise "social security is NOT broke" you're also on the "Greece can fix their own problems" and "Obama should be re-elected" band wagons
@ReFlex76xx ask yourself: "why does a sovereign state NEED help from other countries if they're not Broke" and "why do we need four more years of partisan incompetence"
@cloudshe Because we are all in this boat together, like it or not. Good point, time to kick out the GOP! (though that might last as little as two years, not four)
Sam Seder, you are completely misinformed. Every statement other than the popularity of SS/Medicare is strictly false.
The truth is, social security has started drawing out of the general fund already. Which means it is adding to the deficit(most likely, it may come from QE).
Please become informed, lest you embarrass yourself with easily refuted talking points. Its called due diligence.
Stand up 4 your RIGHTS Americans.~The REPUBLICANS have been FOOLING YOU for the last 30 yrs. SOCIAL SECURITY*, (SS), is NOT an entitlement! SS HAS A $2.6 TRILLION SURPLUS. SS CAN pay every claim at least until 2030.~ SS DOES NOT increase the federal budget by one cent! Tell the REPUBLICAN GANGSTERS & THEIR WALLSTREET BANDIT FRIENDS that you will FIGHT any PRIVATIZATION OF your SS pension.~You will FIGHT ANY REDUCTION IN BENEFITS. YOU will FIGHT any change in AGE REQUIREMENT FOR SS BENEFITS!
@poindexterwitkowsky what the democrats fail to explain is how you are "entitled" to go down with your sinking government. the greeks don't get it, the portuguese don't get it, and certainly the public employees of Wisconsin don't get it. i hope Seder's grandkids beat the phooey out of him when they get the bill
This moron who made this video knows ZERO about real economics, just like any other progressive Liberal. This guy is a needs to shut up and go to a spa.
@ReFlex76xx That premise is highly debatable in a risk/reward fashion. If you are an foreign entity it becomes more true, but if you are both issuer and claimant it ceases to be an asset(or debt for that matter). The federal government owing itself money has a practical result of having to either borrow, tax, or print to make up the shortfall. This above all else should make it clear that what the government holds is not an asset.
@ReFlex76xx They represent neither assets or debt. In this case they function as an accounting method used over the last four decades to move obligations off the budget sheets. They do not represent new obligations or new sources of income.
This video is false because it pretends they represent a source of income. That is new capital will not be needed to fulfill current SS obligations. This is such a basic concept I have to wonder what your point is?
@ReFlex76xx No one is trying to "raid" them as they cannot. They hold no intragovernment value.
If they represent assets then why did the US government have to borrow 45B this year to make up for SS revenue shortfall? Why couldn't they just go to their 2.6T "savings".
@Ragnarokgn I have a Roth IRA Fund I can only deposit money into until it matures, so have an idea how these things work. Heck, I'm sure some banks still issue penalties for excessive withdrawals from savings accounts.
@Ragnarokgn obviously, like Scrooge McDuck, the gummint has a huge vault loaded with all the greenbacks sent to the Treasury because of the SS tax on their income. there, that explains it
@ReFlex76xx well, in terms of greenbacks they actually were Spent (raided?) by congress each year, to redeem the IOUs they're gonna have to print NEW greenbacks
re: jack lew, clinton's OMB director: "Social Security benefits are entirely self-financing, the “trust fund” does Not consist of economic assets”
and the Bad news: (CBO est): "the SS trust fund deficit will be $40 billion in 2011 increasing to over $100 billion by 2021"
@ReFlex76xx i can't believe you're still on this subject after all the recent hand-wringing over SS. does that not PROVE that SS is broke? that there is no money in the budget to pay off those 't-bills' in the SS filing cabinet that have just become due?
@cloudshe Yes, hard to believe you're still on the subject after all the evidence presented to you. Of course Social Security is not broke, and you still need a course on how T-Bills work.
@ReFlex76xx what are you a bond dealer? no, i don't think congress can get away with defaulting on those t-bills.
BUT since they are already 5 years ahead of schedule on cashing them in (which IS part of the deficit, my friend), what happens to SS benefits when the filing cabinet is empty of IOU's???
@ReFlex76xx so you have any clue what the Federal Reserve is/does/who it works for? and what is our Treasury Deptment's job? and what the Federal Budget looks like? hint: they are all related
where were You when G Bush explained how Treasuries work to the American Public, Professor? or maybe you prefer some comic pundit's take
@cloudshe Good, you do understand that all those are intertwined, a good first step!
It's rather clear Sam Sedar understands how T-Bills work a lot better than G. W. Bush, as you'd know if you'd actually seen the video. BTW, it seems Bush owns $495,000 in T-Bills.
@ReFlex76xx your "I know you are" logic is childish but not unexpected. do you not Get that worker payments NOW do not generate t-bills because payments to retirees NOW exceed SS taxes collected?
so what happens to a 55 year old worker in 12 years when all of the PAST t-bills backing SS have already been redeemed? i suppose if receipts 12 years from now are 50% of obligations, SS recipients can then only expect 50% of promised benefits?? where will the other 50% come from? THEY SPENT IT
@ReFlex76xx calling it Strong IS real voodoo. Strong only for those who are already drawing and will not live to see the Trust Fund accounting scam run out in a few years.
sorry you couldn't follow my simple explanation. the iou's in the filing cabinet are now being redeemed as extra obligations on the US Treasury, they WILL run out. just ask any Madoff investor how it works
@ReFlex76xx maybe the raiding you are referring to is what Bush wanted to do with SS receipts, who said:
let folks put their SS retirement funds into Actual assets that would grow in value, instead of T-bills whose only backing is the ability of the taxpayers (and their grandchildren) to pay off the principle & interest
so Currently we taxpayers are taking out a huge Involuntary loan to support future SS outlays, CONGRESS needs to balance the budget to keep us CITIZENS from going BROKE!!
@cloudshe Folk can already invest their assets: they're called 401(k)s, IRAs, and CDs. Social Security was always meant to be separate. Also, T-Bills are still an excellent investment.
There's that "balanced budget" red herring that gets thrown around when Democrats are in power again, yawn.
@ReFlex76xx so how much un-balance do you think this country can stand? if a little overspent is good, is a LOT overspent even better? didn't you need a minimum amount of personal economics to get your GED?
@ReFlex76xx the liberal trick of resorting to insults and innuendo ain't working too well for you. at least you haven't blamed bush yet (or maybe i lost track), that might be your final act of despiration
@ReFlex76xx try catching up with current events, Treasuries, SS, Medicare, they're all a big concern right now. or you can stick with the sam seder silliness and turn in your voter registration card, That would be a favor to the rest of us
@ReFlex76xx at least responsible people plan on sacrificing a few things to raise their children. what sacrifices does the Government make to ensure SS, Medicare, Medicaid entitlements are funded? huh, mr answer man? print more money??? waiting patiently for your splendid explanation.........
@cloudshe Sacrifice? Ok, how about a 91% upper marginal tax like we had under Eiserhower. Heck, I'd settle for the 74% rate JFK wanted! Going back the Clinton rates would be a good start (see the booming 1990s). This is the kind of sacrifice we should be talking about.
The people who receive Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid would be shocked to find out they're "the Government," and are being asked to make sacrifices.
@ReFlex76xx well, not all of us are ready for the sacrifices the democrats are willing to force us into to waste on More Corrupt Spending. and you seem to be buying into the 'tax the rich' red herring, do the math: TOTAL taxable income for those >$100,000 @ year = 1.6 Trillion obama's 2011 Deficit = 1.645 Trillion, if ALL the money made by the rich was taken by obama it would not cover his deficit. fraud & lies, that's what you get from this communist (WTF is an Eiser hower?)
@cloudshe Nice fantasy figures (on taxable income), too bad history doesn't back them up (1933-1981 and the 1990s).
91% upper marginal tax rate under Eisenhower, lowered to 74% later, as JFK wanted. Obama just wants to go let the Bush tax cuts expire, if that makes him a communist, one can only imagine what that makes Eisenhower and JFK.
@ReFlex76xx sorry, those are IRS figures, the deficit is THAT BAD. the 'tax the rich' crap is pure baloney so obama can continue with the SPEND SPEND SPEND baloney. the FED is printing money like crazy to redeem the treasury's matured obligations to keep interest rates down. inflation is being felt by EVERYONE but obama's bean counters. tax rates going up will NOT solve the problem, not during a recession, they NEVER HAVE as you should know professor.
@cloudshe If the deficit is really that bad, then it's time to get serious and repeal the Bush tax cuts, then see about rolling back the Reagan tax cuts.
Spending = jobs. Why do you hate people making a living?
FDR raised upper marginal taxes to 91%, and we got out of the Great Depression; Bill Clinton raised them a mere 3%, and not only did we get the the steady growth of the 1990s, not just a balanced budget, but a surplus. You fail history . . . again!
@ReFlex76xx maybe a better approach would be Thatcher's in 1980, it actually WORKED
obtw FDR thought he was required to actually finance his spending and sold the gov'ts debt legitimately. Wait! What's that Sound? could it be BERNANKE'S PRINTING PRESSES???
@ReFlex76xx one MIGHT say that thatcher turned the negative trend around, but you HAVE to deny that to save your weak argument
AND you deny that more taxes now would hurt AND you deny that keeping the unemployment compensation going FOREVER is wrong AND you deny that SS is in trouble AND you deny that printing dollars is risky AND you deny that FDRs policies were FAR DIFFERENT fm BHOs
i don't think you BELIEVE what you say, but that's unnecessary for Liberals
@ReFlex76xx man, i guess the reality hasn't sunk in yet. i am Amazed seder has not taken this video down. can you see Now how congress has 'woken up" to the SS/medicare reality? what happened to "2037"??
"oh, just cash in sum dem T-bills"
and Bernanke is out there Buying T-bills and Insisting we are Not "printing money" how could it get any more ridiculous???
@ReFlex76xx silly, all those things have your name on them and represent capital that was invested in some form of productivity (well, maybe "gov't debt" could be excluded), they are part of the reason Capitalism produces profits. they represent a proportional share of ownership of production of goods/services
an 'IOU' is what you get for your SS taxes, the money is given away to an older SS member, leftover funds are given to other entitlees, Madoff style. get the difference?
@ReFlex76xx sorry, don't see the connection. big difference is that companies must balance their budgets and they can't print their own money
while you flounder about trying to make a case for "SS is not in trouble because they have T-bills", try to figure out why Fixing SS is such a hot topic in DC (clue: IT'S BROKE)
Sure, every few years, Republicans claim "Social Security is in Trouble," basically an attempt to raid the fund . . . oh, I'm sorry, "Fix Social Security." This'll die down again, as certainly as there'll be another "crisis" in a few years that requires "fixing."
@ReFlex76xx okay, so Now it must be some kind of fraud because the GOP actually wants to FIX it, and those evil people always have something up their sleeves.
had excess SS receipts actually been used to pay down the Debt, maybe we could now afford to add to the deficit to handle those unfunded SS promises. please remember, Congress SPENT the excess SS receipts instead of "investing" them by buying back existing T-bill debt. they just Printed New T-bills! the IOUs are due NOW, nice timing
@ReFlex76xx Yeah, great, then are you going to increase payouts. If not, it will be transformed into a welfare type program, this country really needs another one of those.
Uh, yeah.....Social Security is broke. The class SS T-bills are NON FUNGIBLE, we cannot sell them off as an asset. We have debt in the form of SS obligations and we are gauranteeing that debt with.......GOVERNMENT DEBT...............TAH-DAH, the height of stupidity. Al Gore's lockbox does not have gold, silver or other precious metal, no priceless art, no blue chip stocks, no dollars or other currency.......platinum.......uh, no. We have T-bills that have the STENCH of Vegas all over them.
Obama has been kissing the ass of the right wing corporate lobby since he got into office.. he hasn't done anything for the people ..he could only have been a plant by those same wealthy elite corrupt criminals that have been subverting the government for decades
Thanks for the post of how bad the SS really is for sure. It is close to broke due to fraud and abuse in the SS system and all the people that are frauding it and the fact that they cannot get caught most of the time. People are getting more than one check and most of them can walk and I cannot walk at all due to a bad car wreck. Most do not have any mental problems at all. All I know is that all you con artists WILL GET CAUGHT. I am tired of fighting the Ss for something I will never get.
@PamelaRP I'm with you! I also find it intetesting that Obama now plans on saving us money by cracking down on medicaid/medicaire fraud. The savings of this is part of his HC Bill what a sad joke.
@zabaditafa Exactly, it's not about cutting spending or size of government for a second. Look how happy Republicans were to pass Medicare Part D with NO means of funding it without any outrage or protest. Why? Because it generates serious profits for pharma.
Not a PEEP about anyone over the $20Billion a year farm subsidence that goes to over produce grain that is often burn't.
It's just about using government to facilitate certain corporations and people and that is soft Fascism.
@zabaditafa The same govt you worship so much also is funding endless wars, lying about terrorist attacks, and sending bombs into Pakastan. Where are the so called liberals on those issues. It seems nowhere.
@zabaditafa Oh really then this report should have a fiscal audit showing that the money is actually in there! Dont think so. This report should also reflect that this year the so called fund has issued out more pymts, than collected in tax receipts. Report in the Assoc Press. Because 13.8 trillion have been collected in taxes over 70yrs doesnt mean that 2.5 trill is setting in the till. Also explain why the COLA for this year and next have been suspended, in spite of the CPI rising for this yr?
@truthout911 Hello Mr.S! Thanks for the nice comment you left on my channel. Are you spooning with Alex? Ya, you are. Tell him I say hi, thanks. P.S. there are a shitload of libfuckturds in here huh. If I were Hitler I would send them to the gas chamber!
@tstpussy. I know you would send them to the gas chambers, Nazis like yourself love to murder. Of course you sucking after a dried up old faggot like Chumpsky is just peachy. Go take a bath, libcunt.
@truthout911 Hey asshole! What's with your response? I thought we were buds! As you know, I'm a big fan of Alex and I'm very jealous of your relationship with him. I must say, if you don't mind, that Alex some great tits. I wish I got to play with those :)
So...if it's so popular and successful, I guess you won't mind if we make it optional for young people to participate in will you? I mean after all, we should have a choice on what to do with our money.
abinva0409 1 month ago
@abinva0409 This is not a cafeteria, it's a government.
MAINEPREPPER 1 month ago
@MAINEPREPPER Actually it sounds more like a dictatorship than a "government".
abinva0409 1 week ago
Anyway, Social Security is still one of the safest investments in the world. Don't let the banksters and their useful idiots plunder it!
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@cloudshe you are wasting your energy here. I am done. I can't figure out which is worse his history or his economics. I welcome your thoughts on our website fixssnow.org.
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
@FixSocialSecurityNow by coincidence, instead of replying to more nonsense, i thought i would reply to you, and then i found your post! sometimes you can learn a lot from a good debate, but this one has gone incredibly stale. maybe if we're lucky the kool-aid addict will go away (and hopefully forget to vote)
cloudshe 2 months ago
@cloudshe I am interested in your thoughts on our site, fixssnow.org. We are trying to create a 1-stop shop for people who are worried about Social Security. We want to well-rounded view, and that is somewhat difficult to form because everyone who writes for the site thinks it is a structural mess. If you find something flawed on the site, write a counter-piece and we will publish it... contact@fixssnow.org or joetheeconomist@gmail.com thanks
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
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@FixSocialSecurityNow "you are wasting your energy here. I am done. I can't figure out which is worse his history or his economics. I welcome your thoughts on our website fixssnow.org. "
Translation: "My argument is an utter failure, I'm starting to realize I'm wrong! Better go back to my echo cham- errr website, to reinforce my old views!"
Buh bye!
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx When paying back debt is a luxury as you said, there is no real debt. I know that I will regret asking but what unfunded fallacy are you talking about. The Social Security Admin says that the liability is 17.9 trillion. That is larger than the national debt. You can raise taxes on the rich to 100%, and it will not pay that bill. Or is SSA part of a larger right-wing conspiracy to make Social Security look inept.
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx, "worked fine in 1933-1981, it's called doing what works" It is safe to say that you weren't alive in 1981.
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
@FixSocialSecurityNow Actually, I was born in 1976. Whatever issues developed in 1981 (primarily from higher oil prices) did not merit the destructive "fixes" we got. If there is justice, Milton Friedman is in a very warm place right now.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx, Actually a tax increase for Social Security will pull revenue away from other taxes - like income taxes. As you pull taxes away from the general fund you make the debt situation here worse ( or maybe Germany will bail us out). You are counting on your generation doing what no other generation has done. Which do you think is more likely: Your generation raising both income and payroll taxes or raising inc tx and lowering payroll taxes.
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
@FixSocialSecurityNow Now we have someone who can't tell one tax from another. It's not either-or, you pay both; and yes, there's plenty of money to pay both. We have an under-taxation problem, it's time to fix *that*.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx, "No Debt" in Social Security? We don't call it debt, we call it an unfunded liability. If you look at the present value of existing promised benefits and you subtract the 2.5 trillion in the trust fund - the system is more than 20 trillion in the hole!
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
@FixSocialSecurityNow Ah yes, the "unfunded liability" fallacy, where having a child automatically puts you ~$180,000 in debt. Sad there are people still falling for that. I'd rather focus on *real* debt.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@ReFlex, "creates demand". Your idea of "spending money" is coming from someone who isn't spending it. Social Security moves money from bank account to bank account adding a layer of operational expense. It makes our goods more expensive in world markets. It encourages people to retire - ie not work not spend. The only job it creates is Sam's who job as the village idiot really doesn't add to the economy.
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
@FixSocialSecurityNow So, there's a reality where retirees don't spend. Seriously, someone actually said that! Anyway, give them money, create demand, create jobs, end this nonsense.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx The money you are giving comes from someplace - the working generation who spends less, destroys demand, destroys jobs. You have created nothing but a layer of overhead that makes goods produced here less competitive. So we ship jobs overseas, and import goods. That is the demand you are creating.
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
@FixSocialSecurityNow Yes, that money comes from someplace; and *that* money comes from someplace; and *that* money comes from someplace. Nice of you to admit giving people money creates demand!
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
One more time, pretend I am 35 and about to inherit my share of your debt. And you are telling me that you are raising your taxes to fund your retirement account but you aren't raising taxes to control the deficit that you plan for me to pay. Here is the kicker. You expect me to fund your retirement beyond paying off your debt. Tell me how that works one more time...
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
@FixSocialSecurityNow As a matter of fact, I actually am 35. I know that said retirement account is also *my* retirement account. I know there's no debt in said account (a $2.1 trillion surplus), so any tax increase will only help stabilize it. Also, I know said "tax increase" will only happen if I make over $100,000 a year, in which case I won't mind my excess money being used to help.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
"not only makes sure everyone actually pays their fair share" This is comical. The high wage earner already pays more than his fair share. According to the SSA, high-wage earners today can expect to get back 0.40 for every dollar, where as a low-wage earner can get back more than $2. Basically the higher income Americans are the ONLY ones who pay their fair share.
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
@FixSocialSecurityNow Well, if you're a high-wage earner, you already get more than your fair share. I also have a feeling that SSA figure doesn't include public roads, public utilities, clean air, clean water, etc. If you make over $200,000, you no longer contribute to Social Security by July, yet will still get full benefits. This is *not* fair share by definition.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
Social Security creates nothing. It transfers poverty from the elderly to the working generation. There is no demand created. In fact, it simply increases the cost of production. CBO projects that cutting FICA from 15.3 to 13.3 will create between 2.5 and 7 million jobs.
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
@FixSocialSecurityNow It most certainly creates demand (no amount of denial makes that go away). Demand = spending money (hint: Social Security checks!)
- If it's by tax cuts, the jobs are temporary by definition. Long-term, tax cuts are quite destructive.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
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"meanwhile 3 million jobs have been created" What jobs? We have lost more than 1 million private sector jobs since 2000. That includes private sector jobs which do nothing but service the public sector. Jobs have been created by debt which does nothing but pulls demand forward. Debt is the problem not the solution.
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
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"Paying down deficits is a luxury for good economic times." First, you don't understand debt if you think paying it back is a luxury. Second, I would like to know when the good economic times will be. We haven't paid down debt in nearly 60 years. Clinton claimed he did it once, and that was by moving debt off-balance sheet the way Enron did.
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
You are waking to the idea that Sam here is a little more than a parrot, jawing the Democratic line that Social Security doesn't add to the deficit. Only in DC can you spend 1/2 trillion dollars and it isn't part of your deficit. Oh no... that is coming from my left pocket not my right one. Social Security adds to the deficit by killing jobs, and collecting revenue that could be collected as income taxes. As a nation we are paying our retirement and borrowing on the kids credit card.
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
@FixSocialSecurityNow Actually, by providing money for people to spend (money they earned), Social Security creates jobs. Any product bought means money for the company that made said product, and the store that sold said product, and anyone who may have transported said product. Unless that money magically disappears, this eventually means more jobs!
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx this is the logic that made Stimulus II work so well. how does paying non-producers to not work mean "more" jobs? obamamath
cloudshe 2 months ago
@cloudshe Money for people to spend = demand = products boughtt = money to companies = jobs. Not that hard. Oh, and The American Jobs Act (Stimulus II) would have worked great had Congress not voted it down. $2 trillion for infrastructure, it's that simple.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
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@ReFlex76xx "creates demand". Your idea of "spending money" is coming from someone who isn't spending it. Social Security moves money from bank account to bank account adding a layer of operational expense. It makes our goods more expensive in world markets. It encourages people to retire - ie not work not spend. The only job it creates is Sam's who job as the village idiot really doesn't add to the economy.
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx "fool me once"
not a big fan of reality are you. "spend our way to prosperity" is Not going to be an effective campaign slogan next year. americans are not that stupid
cloudshe 2 months ago
@cloudshe We already spent our way to prosperity in the 1930s and 1940s, reaping the rewards in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s. Campaigning in front of a dilapidated bridge, and promising to fix it, is a great way to get votes. Anyway, about $2 trillion to get our infrastructure back to an A rating (and all the jobs that entails) should be a good start.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx, raising the cap is just another nail in the coffin. America's youth will wake someday, and figure out that the boomers have left them 15 or 20 trillion in the hole. When they do, they are going to ask; why did you raise taxes to save your own retirement and put the rest of the government on them. In your world, the youth will pay for both the deficit that the boomers created and take care of the boomers in retirement. Just genius.
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
@FixSocialSecurityNow Nice figures, though some cites to back them would be nice.
Anyway, *removing* the cap (raising it is a band-aid) not only makes sure everyone actually pays their fair share, it provides plenty more revenue. Far from a "nail in the coffin," a shot in the arm!
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx "tax the rich more so I can sit on my fat ass" logic works every time, i'm sure. at least you're finally admitting that SS is indeed BROKE, what changed your mind?
cloudshe 2 months ago
@cloudshe Social Security is indeed not broke, nice try though!
- "Tax the rich" worked fine in 1933-1981, it's called doing what works.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx again, you are in denial. if it wasn't Broke it wouldn't need the Fix. and what a shame you are buying into the class warfare scam the libs are using to get reelected. take a long look at california, "tax the rich" has turned a beautiful, prosperous state into a financial disaster with a very questionable future
cloudshe 2 months ago
@cloudshe Actually, I can confirm as a Californian we haven't "taxed the rich" properly since 1978 (thanks a lot Howard Jarvis). This is part of the reason for our current troubles. I'm hearing more and more people coming around to repealing Prop 13, once a California third rail.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx, JoeTheEconomist Here. First, I never said that Social Security would last until 2029. I said that if you correct that laughably bad assumptions from SSA - that SSA says that it will last until 2029. There are hundreds of pages of the Trustee's report and yet most people only remember 4 digits. The worst assumption is that workers will put up with this failure for another 20 years. They will decide that paying down the deficit is a better deal. Income taxes go up - SS goes away
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
@FixSocialSecurityNow Paying down deficits is a luxury for good economic times.
Anyway, workers know the fund they pay into will eventually pay them back. Social Security goes away when our civilization goes away.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
I know 2 guys on social security disability and their only disability is that they are lazy.
m015094 7 months ago
@m015094 Probably also "know 2 guys" who can sprout wings and fly; that's the problem with not citing!
ReFlex76xx 3 months ago
@ReFlex76xx Cite what exactly? Do you want me to post their names on the internet? If so, you're out of luck.
m015094 3 months ago
@m015094 That's nice. Anyway, most people on Social Security Disability are genuinely disabled, deal with it.
ReFlex76xx 3 months ago
Here are Sam's conservative assumptions : 2.9% real interest = 2036. 2.1% = 2034. WHERE ARE WE TODAY!!!!!! 1.5%. A conservative estimate that Sam doesn't want you to hear is 1% at which point it is insovent roughly 2029.
joetheeconomist 8 months ago
@joetheeconomist Nice of you to admit it'll last through to 2029 if left alone; now, lift that payroll tax cap, and look for near-permanent solvency!
ReFlex76xx 3 months ago
what a bloody idiot. Sam I doubt you have even read the "conservative assumptions". I doubt that you know what conservative means. The Trust Fund do-nothing assumptions include real interest rates of 2.9%. That is going to be difficult to get if we are buying debt that carries a 2 7/8% yield. Are you think we going to have 15 years of deflation?
joetheeconomist 8 months ago
What a bloody idiot. Successful. It has put more young workers into poverty than ANY OTHER GOVERNMENT PROGRAM EVER!
joetheeconomist 8 months ago
So yeah, notwithstanding a few tweaks, Social Security's doing fine.
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
Anyone serious about reducing the deficit knows the solution: let the Bush tax cuts expire, then roll back the Reagan tax cuts.
The problem is not overspending, it's undertaxation.
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
@ReFlex76xx pls check obama's 2012 budget (wh dot gov), over the next ten years he wants to increase GOV'T SPENDING fm 3.8 tril to 5.7 tril, a 49% INCREASE! how will he pay? besides INCREASING the debt by 7.1 TRILLION he thinks he will be able to tax an economy that GROWS by 63% (incredibly wishful thinking, remember how he predicted an unemployment ceiling of 8%?)
it's the SPENDING and the HUGE DEBT that is out of control, pls look at the facts before parroting your Obamapoints
cloudshe 9 months ago
@cloudshe Wow, someone's getting angry! Tends to happen when one's losing an argument, and getting desperate (hint: time to move on kid!).
BTW, as the economy grows, so does the government, funny how that works.
Oh, and unemployment seems to be well on its way to 8%, funny that.
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
@ReFlex76xx i guess you totally missed the point. look at obama's budget, if it makes sense to you you are acting incredibly blind to economic Facts (and History)
cloudshe 9 months ago
@cloudshe The only problem with President Obama's budget is that there isn't more spending; cuts should be out of the question right now.
Yes, you are indeed blind to history, almost like The New Deal and WWII never happened.
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
@ReFlex76xx don't see the connection, don't see much reality in your remarks, just excuses for BHO's failures. via con dios muchacho
cloudshe 9 months ago
@cloudshe Nice of you to admit you don't see reality. "Way with kid god"?
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
@ReFlex76xx toodles
cloudshe 9 months ago
@cloudshe Buh-bye!
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
@ReFlex76xx how's that "unemployment seems to be well on its way to 8%" working for you? and interesting how the Ponzi Scheme has been recently identified and people are taking note. great "win" on the argument ;)
cloudshe 4 months ago
@cloudshe Unemployment under that 10.2% peak is working surprisingly well, thank-you-very-much; now, time to Pass That Jobs Bill! (or don't, it'll make for a fun sound bite in 2012!)
More "Ponzi Scheme" charges from the usual crowd; nothing new, already forgotten. Social Security still a great service, still a great investment.
Oh, and for some reason, the number everyone's talking about now is 99%! ; )
ReFlex76xx 3 months ago
@ReFlex76xx wonderful! in someone's words "all we need now is for more people to quit looking for work". jobs bill my butt. more bailouts for the irresponsible blue states. green jobs anyone? oh, pissed Those taxpayer bucks away. gee maybe with 1/2 trillion we can get a temp bump in the economy in time for obama's reelection!
cloudshe 3 months ago
@cloudshe Yes, the Recovery Act did create 3 million jobs, thanks for acknowledging that! Green jobs are certainly a way to go, with solar the fastest growing energy sector. New New Deal now!
ReFlex76xx 3 months ago
@ReFlex76xx you seem so sure about that! did you also believe the "obamacare will save us money", "if the rich would sacrifice a little more we could solve this problem", "bill ayers was just a casual acquaintance" "the police acted Stupidly" "you can keep your doctor/health plan" "Holder knew Nothing of guns being run into mexico" "Solyndra is a model for jobs and clean energy", no wonder you're okay with the SS being backed by IOUs and gov't "promises"
cloudshe 3 months ago
@cloudshe Wow, so many red herrings! Anyway:
- That's the long-term idea of The Affordable Care Act; Medicare-for-All is still better.
- When the upper marginal income tax was over 70%, we did indeed thrive.
- This Bill Ayers guy is . . . somebody, apparently.
- Police act as police act, until GOP governors cut their pay or lay them off.
- Doctor/Health plans are always relative and can be supplemented.
- Holder is still a good AG, and that "scandal" is yet to be fully revealed. (cont.)
ReFlex76xx 3 months ago
@ReFlex76xx 'red herrings' how amazing! yet i'm sure you believed all the 'evidence' against bush
btw those were 6 pretty weak comebacks imo, most of them a lot less True than My examples. but the current administration needs all the excuse makers it can summon, so at least Someone appreciates your effort
cloudshe 3 months ago
@cloudshe Thanks for calling those comebacks strong! I like having facts on my side, hence the strength.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx i suppose you would pay for Medicare-for-all the same way you advocate paying for Social Security. how do you do that with a Failing economy? have you ever wondered why Madoff is in Jail? do the freakin math
cloudshe 2 months ago
@cloudshe A key to the economy not failing is fixing our failed health insurance system (hint: go with Medicare-for-all!) Oh, and we pay for it with the savings from not paying inflated private insurance premiums.
Madoff? We're talking Social Security and Medicare, do keep up.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@cloudshe
- Solyndra was an anomaly, as the other successful companies proved, and keep proving.
- Social Security, backed by US Treasury Bonds, is still one of the safest investments in the world.
ReFlex76xx 3 months ago
@ReFlex76xx yes, right up there with 'we promised if you gave us all that stimulus money unemployment would stay 8% or below, but it would have gone even Higher!' BS
a shame your SS 'investment' has NO similarity to a normal Treasury bond, it doesn't have your Name on it, it cannot be cashed in or transferred, and when it comes due it may get paid out in some way totally different than what is being done now. you loan them money so they can pay previous contributors, just like Madoff
cloudshe 3 months ago
@cloudshe Said "promise" was never made (go ahead, look it up!); meanwhile 3 million jobs were created and another Great Depression was avoided.
If you want Social Security, you gotta live to be 65; you can cash in the investment you earned then.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx sure, and "i never had sex with that woman". the public hates liars And their apologists. obama will Fall
cloudshe 2 months ago
@cloudshe The public does indeed hate liars and apologists, hence why the GOP will fall.
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx well, every ponzi/madoff scheme needs a certain amount of suckers, hope you signed up early!
cloudshe 3 months ago
@cloudshe So, you signed up for a ponzi/madoff scheme; ummm, good luck with that.
ReFlex76xx 3 months ago
@ReFlex76xx i DID? you mean i could have Opted OUT? what do i do? call my congressman and ask for an Exemption? like Obamacare?
cloudshe 3 months ago
@cloudshe
- Ummm, apparently.
- That's how Ponzi/Madoff schemes work, you chose to go into them!
- Ummm, at best a Congressman can do an investigation into the people who scammed you.
- I doubt the people who scammed you had exceptions in mind.
- Affordable Care Act exemptions are all temporary, until the exempted are ready.
Anyway, be glad some of your money is still in Social Security, safest investment in the world!
ReFlex76xx 3 months ago
@ReFlex76xx you are taking my cynicism entirely too literally i'm afraid
cloudshe 3 months ago
@cloudshe Sure, you'll be collecting Social Security when/if you turn 65, and you can thank people like me and Sam Seder for fighting to make sure did!
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx i suppose if you and Seder Still believe the premise "social security is NOT broke" you're also on the "Greece can fix their own problems" and "Obama should be re-elected" band wagons
cloudshe 2 months ago
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@cloudshe i work with FixSSNow.Org. Please visit the site, and tell us where we are right and wrong.
FixSocialSecurityNow 2 months ago
@cloudshe Nah, Greece clearly need help from Germany, France, and a few others.
- Four More Years!
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
@ReFlex76xx ask yourself: "why does a sovereign state NEED help from other countries if they're not Broke" and "why do we need four more years of partisan incompetence"
cloudshe 2 months ago
@cloudshe Because we are all in this boat together, like it or not. Good point, time to kick out the GOP! (though that might last as little as two years, not four)
ReFlex76xx 2 months ago
So anyway, Social Security's not broke, deal with it.
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
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Social Security, securing our future.
ReFlex76xx 10 months ago
Social Security, securing our future.
ReFlex76xx 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Social Security, securing our future.
ReFlex76xx 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Social Security, securing our future.
ReFlex76xx 10 months ago
Social Security, securing our future.
ReFlex76xx 11 months ago
Social Security, securing our future.
ReFlex76xx 11 months ago
Where They, are the treasuries bought by the SS trust fund. Not treasuries in general.
Ragnarokgn 11 months ago
Nice that Sam backed everything he said up with evidence, unlike some here.
ReFlex76xx 11 months ago
Sam Seder, you are completely misinformed. Every statement other than the popularity of SS/Medicare is strictly false.
The truth is, social security has started drawing out of the general fund already. Which means it is adding to the deficit(most likely, it may come from QE).
Please become informed, lest you embarrass yourself with easily refuted talking points. Its called due diligence.
Ragnarokgn 11 months ago
Stand up 4 your RIGHTS Americans.~The REPUBLICANS have been FOOLING YOU for the last 30 yrs. SOCIAL SECURITY*, (SS), is NOT an entitlement! SS HAS A $2.6 TRILLION SURPLUS. SS CAN pay every claim at least until 2030.~ SS DOES NOT increase the federal budget by one cent! Tell the REPUBLICAN GANGSTERS & THEIR WALLSTREET BANDIT FRIENDS that you will FIGHT any PRIVATIZATION OF your SS pension.~You will FIGHT ANY REDUCTION IN BENEFITS. YOU will FIGHT any change in AGE REQUIREMENT FOR SS BENEFITS!
poindexterwitkowsky 11 months ago 32
@poindexterwitkowsky "SS DOES NOT increase the federal budget by one cent!" you are laughably misinformed
pls take a look at current SS receipts v. obligations. who do you think is going to cover that deficit? the chinese?
cloudshe 10 months ago
@poindexterwitkowsky what the democrats fail to explain is how you are "entitled" to go down with your sinking government. the greeks don't get it, the portuguese don't get it, and certainly the public employees of Wisconsin don't get it. i hope Seder's grandkids beat the phooey out of him when they get the bill
cloudshe 9 months ago
This moron who made this video knows ZERO about real economics, just like any other progressive Liberal. This guy is a needs to shut up and go to a spa.
Miseducation.
WalkProp 1 year ago
T-Bill are indeed very safe investments, probably the safest one can make in the US.
So, you're a flat earther.
ReFlex76xx 1 year ago
@ReFlex76xx That premise is highly debatable in a risk/reward fashion. If you are an foreign entity it becomes more true, but if you are both issuer and claimant it ceases to be an asset(or debt for that matter). The federal government owing itself money has a practical result of having to either borrow, tax, or print to make up the shortfall. This above all else should make it clear that what the government holds is not an asset.
If you are not honest enough to see that, well...
Ragnarokgn 11 months ago
@Ragnarokgn Everything mentioned is exactly why this T-Bills are assets: they have the power of the government behind them.
ReFlex76xx 11 months ago
@ReFlex76xx They represent neither assets or debt. In this case they function as an accounting method used over the last four decades to move obligations off the budget sheets. They do not represent new obligations or new sources of income.
This video is false because it pretends they represent a source of income. That is new capital will not be needed to fulfill current SS obligations. This is such a basic concept I have to wonder what your point is?
Ragnarokgn 11 months ago
@Ragnarokgn They're assets (over $2 trillion worth), let's quit pretending otherwise; if they weren't there wouldn't be an attempt to raid them.
ReFlex76xx 11 months ago
@ReFlex76xx No one is trying to "raid" them as they cannot. They hold no intragovernment value.
If they represent assets then why did the US government have to borrow 45B this year to make up for SS revenue shortfall? Why couldn't they just go to their 2.6T "savings".
Ragnarokgn 11 months ago
@Ragnarokgn I have a Roth IRA Fund I can only deposit money into until it matures, so have an idea how these things work. Heck, I'm sure some banks still issue penalties for excessive withdrawals from savings accounts.
ReFlex76xx 11 months ago
@ReFlex76xx Correct, it seems like you understand. ~100B was issued in 2010 to cover maturation-- which covered the 41B and 45B shortfalls.
Ragnarokgn 11 months ago
@Ragnarokgn obviously, like Scrooge McDuck, the gummint has a huge vault loaded with all the greenbacks sent to the Treasury because of the SS tax on their income. there, that explains it
cloudshe 10 months ago
@cloudshe Something like that, with about $2.7 trillion which certain people want to raid.
ReFlex76xx 10 months ago
@ReFlex76xx well, in terms of greenbacks they actually were Spent (raided?) by congress each year, to redeem the IOUs they're gonna have to print NEW greenbacks
re: jack lew, clinton's OMB director: "Social Security benefits are entirely self-financing, the “trust fund” does Not consist of economic assets”
and the Bad news: (CBO est): "the SS trust fund deficit will be $40 billion in 2011 increasing to over $100 billion by 2021"
cloudshe 9 months ago
@cloudshe Nice of you to admit there's a trust fund! Next step: admitting it's not broke, not going broke, and the "problems" are overblown.
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
@ReFlex76xx i can't believe you're still on this subject after all the recent hand-wringing over SS. does that not PROVE that SS is broke? that there is no money in the budget to pay off those 't-bills' in the SS filing cabinet that have just become due?
cloudshe 10 months ago
@cloudshe Yes, hard to believe you're still on the subject after all the evidence presented to you. Of course Social Security is not broke, and you still need a course on how T-Bills work.
ReFlex76xx 10 months ago
@ReFlex76xx what are you a bond dealer? no, i don't think congress can get away with defaulting on those t-bills.
BUT since they are already 5 years ahead of schedule on cashing them in (which IS part of the deficit, my friend), what happens to SS benefits when the filing cabinet is empty of IOU's???
cloudshe 10 months ago
@cloudshe Still doesn't know how T-Bills work, maybe next time.
ReFlex76xx 10 months ago
@ReFlex76xx so you have any clue what the Federal Reserve is/does/who it works for? and what is our Treasury Deptment's job? and what the Federal Budget looks like? hint: they are all related
where were You when G Bush explained how Treasuries work to the American Public, Professor? or maybe you prefer some comic pundit's take
cloudshe 10 months ago
@cloudshe Good, you do understand that all those are intertwined, a good first step!
It's rather clear Sam Sedar understands how T-Bills work a lot better than G. W. Bush, as you'd know if you'd actually seen the video. BTW, it seems Bush owns $495,000 in T-Bills.
ReFlex76xx 10 months ago
@ReFlex76xx did you miss the point Entirely??? what part of the bush explanation did you Not understand??
cloudshe 10 months ago
@cloudshe Yes, we get that you missed the point entirely, and that the "Bush explanation" is impossible to understand.
Anyway, good thing we have Sam Seder to keep us informed!
ReFlex76xx 10 months ago
@ReFlex76xx your "I know you are" logic is childish but not unexpected. do you not Get that worker payments NOW do not generate t-bills because payments to retirees NOW exceed SS taxes collected?
so what happens to a 55 year old worker in 12 years when all of the PAST t-bills backing SS have already been redeemed? i suppose if receipts 12 years from now are 50% of obligations, SS recipients can then only expect 50% of promised benefits?? where will the other 50% come from? THEY SPENT IT
cloudshe 10 months ago
@cloudshe Wow, still doesn't get how T-Bills work! (hint: it's called interest!)
Nice try with the voodoo math too.
Meanwhile, Social Security remains strong; let's make it stronger by removing the payroll tax top limit.
ReFlex76xx 10 months ago
@ReFlex76xx calling it Strong IS real voodoo. Strong only for those who are already drawing and will not live to see the Trust Fund accounting scam run out in a few years.
sorry you couldn't follow my simple explanation. the iou's in the filing cabinet are now being redeemed as extra obligations on the US Treasury, they WILL run out. just ask any Madoff investor how it works
cloudshe 10 months ago
@cloudshe Yes, there is a scam trying to downplay the worth of Social Security (hypocritically, while trying to raid the fund).
ReFlex76xx 10 months ago
@ReFlex76xx maybe the raiding you are referring to is what Bush wanted to do with SS receipts, who said:
let folks put their SS retirement funds into Actual assets that would grow in value, instead of T-bills whose only backing is the ability of the taxpayers (and their grandchildren) to pay off the principle & interest
so Currently we taxpayers are taking out a huge Involuntary loan to support future SS outlays, CONGRESS needs to balance the budget to keep us CITIZENS from going BROKE!!
cloudshe 9 months ago
@cloudshe Folk can already invest their assets: they're called 401(k)s, IRAs, and CDs. Social Security was always meant to be separate. Also, T-Bills are still an excellent investment.
There's that "balanced budget" red herring that gets thrown around when Democrats are in power again, yawn.
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
@ReFlex76xx so how much un-balance do you think this country can stand? if a little overspent is good, is a LOT overspent even better? didn't you need a minimum amount of personal economics to get your GED?
cloudshe 9 months ago
@cloudshe So, you don't even have a GED, harsh!
Anyway, this balanced budget red herring was already quickly covered, you were owned, we've moved on, feel free to keep up!
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
@ReFlex76xx the liberal trick of resorting to insults and innuendo ain't working too well for you. at least you haven't blamed bush yet (or maybe i lost track), that might be your final act of despiration
cloudshe 9 months ago
@cloudshe So, you're resorting to insults and innuendo, and you also blame Bush for something.
What's "despiration"? Anything like desperation?
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
@ReFlex76xx try catching up with current events, Treasuries, SS, Medicare, they're all a big concern right now. or you can stick with the sam seder silliness and turn in your voter registration card, That would be a favor to the rest of us
cloudshe 9 months ago
@cloudshe Of course they're a concern for now, that's the power of hype!
Oh, and yes, we know Sam Seder is serious, that's why he makes these videos.
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
@ReFlex76xx the tooth fairy called, she wants to know what you blew your pillow money on
try googling "unfunded liabilities" for a better explanation than i can give you (obviously)
cloudshe 9 months ago
@cloudshe Yes, the whole "unfunded liability" is basically one giant fantasy, nice of you to admit that!
It's the equivalent of saying having a kid automatically puts you $180,000 in debt, because that's how much it costs to raise one!
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
@ReFlex76xx at least responsible people plan on sacrificing a few things to raise their children. what sacrifices does the Government make to ensure SS, Medicare, Medicaid entitlements are funded? huh, mr answer man? print more money??? waiting patiently for your splendid explanation.........
cloudshe 9 months ago
@cloudshe Sacrifice? Ok, how about a 91% upper marginal tax like we had under Eiserhower. Heck, I'd settle for the 74% rate JFK wanted! Going back the Clinton rates would be a good start (see the booming 1990s). This is the kind of sacrifice we should be talking about.
The people who receive Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid would be shocked to find out they're "the Government," and are being asked to make sacrifices.
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
@ReFlex76xx well, not all of us are ready for the sacrifices the democrats are willing to force us into to waste on More Corrupt Spending. and you seem to be buying into the 'tax the rich' red herring, do the math: TOTAL taxable income for those >$100,000 @ year = 1.6 Trillion obama's 2011 Deficit = 1.645 Trillion, if ALL the money made by the rich was taken by obama it would not cover his deficit. fraud & lies, that's what you get from this communist (WTF is an Eiser hower?)
cloudshe 9 months ago
@cloudshe Nice fantasy figures (on taxable income), too bad history doesn't back them up (1933-1981 and the 1990s).
91% upper marginal tax rate under Eisenhower, lowered to 74% later, as JFK wanted. Obama just wants to go let the Bush tax cuts expire, if that makes him a communist, one can only imagine what that makes Eisenhower and JFK.
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
@ReFlex76xx sorry, those are IRS figures, the deficit is THAT BAD. the 'tax the rich' crap is pure baloney so obama can continue with the SPEND SPEND SPEND baloney. the FED is printing money like crazy to redeem the treasury's matured obligations to keep interest rates down. inflation is being felt by EVERYONE but obama's bean counters. tax rates going up will NOT solve the problem, not during a recession, they NEVER HAVE as you should know professor.
cloudshe 9 months ago
@cloudshe If the deficit is really that bad, then it's time to get serious and repeal the Bush tax cuts, then see about rolling back the Reagan tax cuts.
Spending = jobs. Why do you hate people making a living?
FDR raised upper marginal taxes to 91%, and we got out of the Great Depression; Bill Clinton raised them a mere 3%, and not only did we get the the steady growth of the 1990s, not just a balanced budget, but a surplus. You fail history . . . again!
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
@ReFlex76xx maybe a better approach would be Thatcher's in 1980, it actually WORKED
obtw FDR thought he was required to actually finance his spending and sold the gov'ts debt legitimately. Wait! What's that Sound? could it be BERNANKE'S PRINTING PRESSES???
paychecks, Not food stamps
cloudshe 9 months ago
@cloudshe Thatcher policies actually had fairly nasty effects for the UK in the long-term, negating any short-term gains.
Finance? Ok, let the Bush tax cuts expire, then see about rolling back the Reagan tax cuts.
Yes, rebuilding US infrastructure does indeed require a lot of paychecks. About $2 Trillion, we can call it The New New Deal!
ReFlex76xx 9 months ago
@ReFlex76xx one MIGHT say that thatcher turned the negative trend around, but you HAVE to deny that to save your weak argument
AND you deny that more taxes now would hurt AND you deny that keeping the unemployment compensation going FOREVER is wrong AND you deny that SS is in trouble AND you deny that printing dollars is risky AND you deny that FDRs policies were FAR DIFFERENT fm BHOs
i don't think you BELIEVE what you say, but that's unnecessary for Liberals
Auf Wiedersehn grasshopper
cloudshe 9 months ago
Let's see:
- Still no explanation of just what needs to be fixed with Social Security (beyond removing limits on the payroll tax)
- Still no understanding of how T-Bills work.
Oh well . . .
ReFlex76xx 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Social Security, still healthy overall; just get rid of that payroll tax cap.
ReFlex76xx 1 year ago
@ReFlex76xx man, i guess the reality hasn't sunk in yet. i am Amazed seder has not taken this video down. can you see Now how congress has 'woken up" to the SS/medicare reality? what happened to "2037"??
"oh, just cash in sum dem T-bills"
and Bernanke is out there Buying T-bills and Insisting we are Not "printing money" how could it get any more ridiculous???
cloudshe 1 year ago
@cloudshe He hasn't taken it down because it's still dead on right. There's nothing to "wake up" to, nor anything special about 2037.
T-Bills are an investment; cash 'em is as they mature.
Social Security: strong as ever.
ReFlex76xx 1 year ago
@ReFlex76xx unfortunately, those T bills do not have Your name on them
unless you are at the top of the pyramid, someone else is cashing in Your investment
madoff made a lot of money on guys like you
cloudshe 1 year ago
@cloudshe Don't they?. If not, neither do gold or cash.
Using that logic, CDs, IRAs, and 401(k)s are all pyramid schemes.
So, Madoff took your money.
ReFlex76xx 1 year ago
@ReFlex76xx silly, all those things have your name on them and represent capital that was invested in some form of productivity (well, maybe "gov't debt" could be excluded), they are part of the reason Capitalism produces profits. they represent a proportional share of ownership of production of goods/services
an 'IOU' is what you get for your SS taxes, the money is given away to an older SS member, leftover funds are given to other entitlees, Madoff style. get the difference?
cloudshe 1 year ago
@cloudshe So, you're silly.
Anyway, yes T-Bills are indeed investments; in this case, in the many government projects that make our country go (roads, dams, sewers, aqueducts).
In that sense, T-Bills are as much IOUs as stocks and bonds.
Social Security taxes are part of the investment.
That Madoff thing must've hurt, this being the second time he's been mentioned.
ReFlex76xx 1 year ago
@ReFlex76xx sorry, don't see the connection. big difference is that companies must balance their budgets and they can't print their own money
while you flounder about trying to make a case for "SS is not in trouble because they have T-bills", try to figure out why Fixing SS is such a hot topic in DC (clue: IT'S BROKE)
cloudshe 1 year ago
@cloudshe Weird "connection."
Sure, every few years, Republicans claim "Social Security is in Trouble," basically an attempt to raid the fund . . . oh, I'm sorry, "Fix Social Security." This'll die down again, as certainly as there'll be another "crisis" in a few years that requires "fixing."
ReFlex76xx 1 year ago
@ReFlex76xx okay, so Now it must be some kind of fraud because the GOP actually wants to FIX it, and those evil people always have something up their sleeves.
had excess SS receipts actually been used to pay down the Debt, maybe we could now afford to add to the deficit to handle those unfunded SS promises. please remember, Congress SPENT the excess SS receipts instead of "investing" them by buying back existing T-bill debt. they just Printed New T-bills! the IOUs are due NOW, nice timing
cloudshe 1 year ago
Social Security, still healthy overall; just get rid of that payroll tax cap.
ReFlex76xx 1 year ago 2
Social Security, still healthy overall; just get rid of that payroll tax cap.
ReFlex76xx 1 year ago
@ReFlex76xx Yeah, great, then are you going to increase payouts. If not, it will be transformed into a welfare type program, this country really needs another one of those.
tickyul 1 year ago
@zabaditafa It is an accounting trick, gauranteeing government debt with.....uh, uh......government debt, great way to prop up a ponzi scheme.
tickyul 1 year ago
Uh, yeah.....Social Security is broke. The class SS T-bills are NON FUNGIBLE, we cannot sell them off as an asset. We have debt in the form of SS obligations and we are gauranteeing that debt with.......GOVERNMENT DEBT...............TAH-DAH, the height of stupidity. Al Gore's lockbox does not have gold, silver or other precious metal, no priceless art, no blue chip stocks, no dollars or other currency.......platinum.......uh, no. We have T-bills that have the STENCH of Vegas all over them.
tickyul 1 year ago
Obama has been kissing the ass of the right wing corporate lobby since he got into office.. he hasn't done anything for the people ..he could only have been a plant by those same wealthy elite corrupt criminals that have been subverting the government for decades
xadam2dudex 1 year ago
Thanks for the post of how bad the SS really is for sure. It is close to broke due to fraud and abuse in the SS system and all the people that are frauding it and the fact that they cannot get caught most of the time. People are getting more than one check and most of them can walk and I cannot walk at all due to a bad car wreck. Most do not have any mental problems at all. All I know is that all you con artists WILL GET CAUGHT. I am tired of fighting the Ss for something I will never get.
PamelaRP 1 year ago
@PamelaRP I'm with you! I also find it intetesting that Obama now plans on saving us money by cracking down on medicaid/medicaire fraud. The savings of this is part of his HC Bill what a sad joke.
joe035 1 year ago
@zabaditafa Exactly, it's not about cutting spending or size of government for a second. Look how happy Republicans were to pass Medicare Part D with NO means of funding it without any outrage or protest. Why? Because it generates serious profits for pharma.
Not a PEEP about anyone over the $20Billion a year farm subsidence that goes to over produce grain that is often burn't.
It's just about using government to facilitate certain corporations and people and that is soft Fascism.
CmdrTobs 1 year ago
@zabaditafa The same govt you worship so much also is funding endless wars, lying about terrorist attacks, and sending bombs into Pakastan. Where are the so called liberals on those issues. It seems nowhere.
truthout911 1 year ago
@zabaditafa Oh really then this report should have a fiscal audit showing that the money is actually in there! Dont think so. This report should also reflect that this year the so called fund has issued out more pymts, than collected in tax receipts. Report in the Assoc Press. Because 13.8 trillion have been collected in taxes over 70yrs doesnt mean that 2.5 trill is setting in the till. Also explain why the COLA for this year and next have been suspended, in spite of the CPI rising for this yr?
truthout911 1 year ago
@truthout911 Hi Stinky.
tstruss912 1 year ago
@tstpussy Hi Cunt!
truthout911 1 year ago
@truthout911 Hello Mr.S! Thanks for the nice comment you left on my channel. Are you spooning with Alex? Ya, you are. Tell him I say hi, thanks. P.S. there are a shitload of libfuckturds in here huh. If I were Hitler I would send them to the gas chamber!
tstruss912 1 year ago
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truthout911 1 year ago
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tstruss912 1 year ago