Wow, this is idiotic. Example: "The people cried out for mercy, but Allah killed them anyway." 20:15. Show me where is says this in thr Qur'an... seriously this is pathetic. 20:15 actually reads: "Verily, the Hour is coming and I am almost hiding it for Myself- that every person be rewarded for that which he strives." Another example, 21:6 doesn't read "Allah destroyed entire towns, yet the people still disbelieved." ... this is a poor attempt to prove Islam barbaric.
You are saying that that isn't in the Quran? You are saying that in spirit, and in general this video is misrepresenting what is written in the Quran? I say prove it.
its my opinion. I think ppl who deny god's existance, or ppl that worship a cow, a donkey, fire, the moon, a stone, etc. etc. etc. etc. should go to hell.
i mean we're all humans. We all have a brain. Why don't they realize that a COW cannot be god. If they deny the fact (since i don't think there are BIG GROUPS of ppl THAT stupid) then i think they should get punished for it.
They wanna worship a cow? well lets see how the "cow" reacts when they burn in hell :P
I believe that goodness is something that has nothing to do with religion. I believe that you, me and everyone else should behave "as if" Gos exists, even if we don't believe he does. I think by what we do, and how we treat each other, we will enjoy heaven, or suffer hell right here on earth, and in our lives. If I love, love will return to me, if I hate, hate will be my lot in life.
that is correct. However loving another person and treating others well isn't enough.
So an ex. there's this guy ok? he helps old ppl in a hospital, however he makes fun of god, and how could some thing like that exist.
He mocks ppl who worship god, and that's its totally a "fairy tale"
also ex. some EXTRAORDINARY person helps MILLIONS, however worships a statue. Even though i BREAK his god.He MAKES another statue n worships it.Interesting, some1 who creates his own god
Ghandi was Hindu, he worshipped Many Gods, yet his holiness has never been questioned, even most of the Muslims I've discussed him with figured Ghandi for a place in heaven. Again I return to the religion/dogma separates us from God standpoint. To me God is beyond my understanding. If God wasn't, God wouldn't be God. I don't presume to know God's will beyond my limited understanding, nor do I intend to rely on a religion to lay down the rules I must follow to worship God.
I believe that he will... His life was about love, and peace. I think he was very Christ-like in his nature, and in recent times, that is very rare indeed. Yes, I think he is in heaven, if there is a heaven, he belongs.
Considering Ghandis disposition, to say he "praised" Mohammad isn't such a far reach, Ghandi had very few negative words to say about anyone. As I said, Ghandi was very Christ-like in his nature.
did u know that muslims include (to god) followers of moses, jesus, n abraham etc.?
"[2:136]
Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
Yet there are men who take (for worship) others besides Allah, as equal (with Allah): They love them as they should love Allah. But those of Faith are overflowing in their love for Allah. If only the unrighteous could see, behold, they would see the penalty: that to Allah belongs all power, and Allah will strongly enforce the penalty."
well u didn't quote it correctly. n hell is for disbelievers. u think hell is there for nothing?
PICKTHAL: Yet of mankind are some who take unto themselves (objects of worship which they set as) rivals to Allah, loving them with a love like (that which is the due) of Allah (only) - those who believe are stauncher in their love for Allah - Oh, that those who do evil had but known, (on the day) when they behold the doom, that power belongeth wholly to Allah, and that Allah is severe in punishment!"
Yet another translation. Either way, as I say in the discription, I didn't make this one.
2:24? that's hell. That's why its there for. For bad people and people who deny god's existence.
2:96. Jews are the greediest of all?
"[2:96]
Thou wilt indeed find them, of all people, most greedy of life,-even more than the idolaters: Each one of them wishes He could be given a life of a thousand years: But the grant of such life will not save him from (due) punishment. For Allah sees well all that they do.'
There as you said, are many transliterations, and one would have to read more than that one verse to understand that Mohammad was talking about the Jews. I believe that was more a paraphase, than a quote. Nevertheless, while the 3 major english translations don't refer specifically to Jews, the context when read with the verses that precede 2:96 is about the Jews of Yathrib.
According to sunni scholar Ibn Abbas, it is referring to Jews;-
(And thou) O Muhammad! (wilt find them) the Jews (greediest of mankind for any life) to remain in this world (and (greedier) than the idolaters) even greedier than the Arab idolaters.
Ibn Abbas is considered one of the top Tafsir scholars.
what :S?! is that why our prophet married a Jewish woman! is that why they made treaties with the jews!!
what kind of hate are u talking about. SPECIFIC jews were bad, not all of them. Is that why our quran tells us they'll enter heaven? i mean u really wanna tell me debating me is useless? U don't know the quran as much as u seem to show me.
i'm 21 years old and i'm a BORN muslim. there are SCHOLARS, hear that? SCHOLARS, saying its ok to rape women if they ain't wearing a hijab. I DARE ANY1 to show me a verse in the quran that says that.
RAPING is FORBIDDIN & 1 of the major sins in the quran. If ur gonna follow scholars without putting the facts straight then debate is useless with u sir
I've heard about CRAZY scholars,i've heard scholars that r extremists in SOME aspects. I've heard scholars that follow the quran & are JUST FINE
The Scholars that I have to rely on (as my understanding of the 7thC localized Quraysh dialect used in Al Qur'an is limited) are ones, I think, that are generally accepted by Muslims (well, Sunnis) Ibn Kathir, Ibn Abbas, Jalalayn.
I'm sure there are crazy scholars, you're right.
Where is the verse in the Qur'an that strictly forbids rape and has it as '1 of the major sins'? Just curious coz some of the Muslims & Kuffar think raping a non-believing slave is fine in 4;23 & 33;50.
Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- .. (to be continued)
"..(Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-"
O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- .."
".. this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
uuuuh I DON'T SEE ANY "RAPE"
SERIOUSLY, where do u get this crap (pardon my french) from?
in the quran for ex. in verse 4:25 it says its "ok" to marry a slave (but ofcourse he has to set her free once he took her) it doesn't say its ok to "rape" her!
I mean seriously sir, did YOU read the verse YOURSELF? or have u copy pasted it!?
i mean why do i ALWAYS have people saying something about a verse, and when i go check ITS TOTALLY the opposite?
"I didn't realise until now that Muslims are permitted to have Muslim slaves, I thought they were only allowed Kuffar slaves."
actually they don't. Slaves were there before muslims arrived. To free them, the prophet told ppl to buy them and set them free :) that's y there aren't slaves left, because the prophet told them to do it this way.
___
"interpreted some translations of those verses as such. "
since u don't know alot in islam i'm gonna clear that up. The slave was a slave, we never said kufar and not kufar
anyway, Kafir isn't some1 who ain't muslim. A kafir means some1 who doesn't believe in god. So if ur an athiest, ur a kafir. If u were a jew or a christian u aren't a kafir.
"s it still permitted for Muslims to own Muslim slaves"
no its forbidden. But the prophet removed that gradually, the same thing he did with alcohol. He didn't forbid it during one night. He said to lessen it bit by bit until they were free of it then he forbid it. He wanted to make it easier on the muslims who had bad habits before.
"actually its is forbidden to enslave any1 muslim or non muslim :) ur terrible at researching.....everything i have told u is from the quran"
Please, Archi, you forgot to show me the verse[s], how am I supposed to learn if you do not show me the verses, it's no good you just telling me "its in the Qur'an", otherwise how will I learn?
Where is it "forbidden to enslave any1 muslim or non muslim" in the Qur'an? Which verse?
I know you don't like translations, but Ahmed Ali, Pickthal, Shakir, Yusuf Ali and Ibn Abbas, to name a few, translate it as meaning 'friends'
Why should your definition of a word carry more weight than all these scholars that are expert in the ancient dialect?
Maybe YOU could make your own translation, that would be a great idea, and educational for me! (though you may struggle without Ahadith to give you a bit of context)
first i didn't choose to study islamic education at university. As u can see i'm studing architecture. That's where my nickname came from.
If ppl want to believe it is "friends" they can do so i couldn't care less. I KNOW the truth, & that's what's imp. to me. If some non-arabians found out the truth its because THEY TRIED to find the truth & they god it
Please forgive me, I thought the plural form of Hadith was 'Ahadith'(phonetically)I thought I would look even sillier than normal if I wrote 'hadiths'
I noticed earlier that when I cited a verse number (4.23, 33.50), you quoted me Yusuf Ali's translation. Is this the translation that you recommend for agnostics and unbelievers like me?
Its just that Yusuf Ali translates 5.51 as 'friends'
As you are fluent in the ancient dialect, I think it would be great if you could maybe give me YOUR translation of the verse so as to clear the misunderstanding up?
Sorry I used my spare account there Archi, I thought it might get your attention.
To be honest, some of my muslim friends have advised me that Yusuf Ali's translation is a bit watered down, and a lot of the language is 'infidel friendly'. plus he likes to add words to the Qur'an that are not there in the Arabic in a way that aims to deceive.
That's why I think it is great that you are fluent in Quraysh Arabi, and could help clear up some misconceptions.
its ok dhimm, I quoted those verses cuz I checked the Arabic verse n I dnt remember ne seeing anything different:)
btw sorry I was busy today packing, I'm traveling a week to Europe, when I come back inshalla I'll be free to translate the verses, with the best I can.
our quran made it clear that MANY christians and jews will enter paradise and they are good people and NOT in some way "greedy". That verse may be meant to other people, OR SPECIFIC jews, which are dead by now i suppose. However, i mean if he was a SCHOLAR, he would have paid attention to the details. He didn't.
I don't take anything from any scholar. I have the quran that's enough.
Yes, but "believe" what, 'licious? I guess the biggest problem I have is with the zealotry of it. I assume you don't think someone like Ghandi, or Confusious is rotting in Hell...do you? It's the whole fundamentalist ideological movement that's raised my ire.
ghandi? i am not the judge of ghandi :P god is the judge.
But u have to remember hell is for a reason. If u believe that EVER1 will go to heaven, then what's the point of hell.
right? but about MY BELIEF, i believe that many jews, christians, and muslims will enter paradise. n infants, n mentally retarded ppl (who can't think for themselves) n ppl who pray to ONE god, but don't have a religion.
that's what i BELIEVE.since we ALL do not KNOW what's gonna happen
JESUS SAID: "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. BY THEIR FRUIT YOU WILL RECOGNIZE THEM." Satan was the Angel who gave the Koran to MuhamMAD. MuhamMAD'S FRUIT: Pedophile, Greed and Murder.
Some lovely verses there. Allah certainly don't hold back with the mercy and lovin of his predestined creatures! I think it would be nice if someone did an equally lovin version of the Forty Hadiths.
Wow, this is idiotic. Example: "The people cried out for mercy, but Allah killed them anyway." 20:15. Show me where is says this in thr Qur'an... seriously this is pathetic. 20:15 actually reads: "Verily, the Hour is coming and I am almost hiding it for Myself- that every person be rewarded for that which he strives." Another example, 21:6 doesn't read "Allah destroyed entire towns, yet the people still disbelieved." ... this is a poor attempt to prove Islam barbaric.
This video is false.
hassanslash 3 years ago
"How many towns have we destroyed?"
You are saying that that isn't in the Quran? You are saying that in spirit, and in general this video is misrepresenting what is written in the Quran? I say prove it.
wideawake123 3 years ago
21:06 Not a township believed of those which We destroyed before them (though We sent them portents): would they then believe?
Paraphrased, that's exactly what it says.
I guess that makes you wrong.
wideawake123 3 years ago
yeah n btw .. the music IS AWESOME ;p like the beat ;p see yaw
architectlicious 3 years ago
anyway
its my opinion. I think ppl who deny god's existance, or ppl that worship a cow, a donkey, fire, the moon, a stone, etc. etc. etc. etc. should go to hell.
i mean we're all humans. We all have a brain. Why don't they realize that a COW cannot be god. If they deny the fact (since i don't think there are BIG GROUPS of ppl THAT stupid) then i think they should get punished for it.
They wanna worship a cow? well lets see how the "cow" reacts when they burn in hell :P
sorry my opinion
architectlicious 3 years ago
I believe that goodness is something that has nothing to do with religion. I believe that you, me and everyone else should behave "as if" Gos exists, even if we don't believe he does. I think by what we do, and how we treat each other, we will enjoy heaven, or suffer hell right here on earth, and in our lives. If I love, love will return to me, if I hate, hate will be my lot in life.
wideawake123 3 years ago
that is correct. However loving another person and treating others well isn't enough.
So an ex. there's this guy ok? he helps old ppl in a hospital, however he makes fun of god, and how could some thing like that exist.
He mocks ppl who worship god, and that's its totally a "fairy tale"
also ex. some EXTRAORDINARY person helps MILLIONS, however worships a statue. Even though i BREAK his god.He MAKES another statue n worships it.Interesting, some1 who creates his own god
entering heaven?really?
architectlicious 3 years ago
Ghandi was Hindu, he worshipped Many Gods, yet his holiness has never been questioned, even most of the Muslims I've discussed him with figured Ghandi for a place in heaven. Again I return to the religion/dogma separates us from God standpoint. To me God is beyond my understanding. If God wasn't, God wouldn't be God. I don't presume to know God's will beyond my limited understanding, nor do I intend to rely on a religion to lay down the rules I must follow to worship God.
wideawake123 3 years ago
now why don't i ask YOU the question ;p
now u wanna believe that Ghandi who doesn't believe in Jesus Christ will enter heaven?
architectlicious 3 years ago
I believe that he will... His life was about love, and peace. I think he was very Christ-like in his nature, and in recent times, that is very rare indeed. Yes, I think he is in heaven, if there is a heaven, he belongs.
wideawake123 3 years ago
"Yes, I think he is in heaven, if there is a heaven, he belongs."
i think that is god to judge. I didn't know what ghandi believes in since i do not penetrate his brain.
We have different views. Nevertheless we will ALL find out sooner or later.
I can be a good non-christian, n still enter heaven? i can still worship anything i want n still enter heaven?
don't know why there's a hell. Anyway
whatever :P
architectlicious 3 years ago
BTW ghandi liked and praised mohammad :P INTERESTING ;p i should find u the quote
architectlicious 3 years ago
Considering Ghandis disposition, to say he "praised" Mohammad isn't such a far reach, Ghandi had very few negative words to say about anyone. As I said, Ghandi was very Christ-like in his nature.
wideawake123 3 years ago
"Considering Ghandis disposition, to say he "praised" Mohammad isn't such a far reach, Ghandi had very few negative words to say about anyone"
oki doki, at least u agree he said it ;)
i don't think MAGNIFICENT men would PRAISE killers ;p right?
anyway ;p i got my point through
architectlicious 3 years ago
here u go
"[2:92]
There came to you Moses with clear (Signs); yet ye worshipped the calf (Even) after that, and ye did behave wrongfully."
its addressing some ppl who worshiped a cow that looked different than other cows.
now u wanna tell me those don't deserve hell?
god gave them a brain, they better use it
architectlicious 3 years ago
most of what u said concerns disbelievers going to hell.
well if they deny god's existence, the hell with them.
God gave them a brain, they should use it. All what's around us IR PROOF ENOUGH that there is a god.
anyway c ya
architectlicious 3 years ago
3:85 rejects non-muslims?
did u know that muslims include (to god) followers of moses, jesus, n abraham etc.?
"[2:136]
Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
architectlicious 3 years ago
"allah is severe punishment 2:165"
look what i found
"2:165]
Yet there are men who take (for worship) others besides Allah, as equal (with Allah): They love them as they should love Allah. But those of Faith are overflowing in their love for Allah. If only the unrighteous could see, behold, they would see the penalty: that to Allah belongs all power, and Allah will strongly enforce the penalty."
well u didn't quote it correctly. n hell is for disbelievers. u think hell is there for nothing?
architectlicious 3 years ago
PICKTHAL: Yet of mankind are some who take unto themselves (objects of worship which they set as) rivals to Allah, loving them with a love like (that which is the due) of Allah (only) - those who believe are stauncher in their love for Allah - Oh, that those who do evil had but known, (on the day) when they behold the doom, that power belongeth wholly to Allah, and that Allah is severe in punishment!"
Yet another translation. Either way, as I say in the discription, I didn't make this one.
wideawake123 3 years ago
"Oh, that those who do evil had but known, (on the day) when they behold the doom, t"
yes i do believe ppl who do evil should have a "severe punishment"
that's ONLY fair :)
don't see the problem
architectlicious 3 years ago
2:24? that's hell. That's why its there for. For bad people and people who deny god's existence.
2:96. Jews are the greediest of all?
"[2:96]
Thou wilt indeed find them, of all people, most greedy of life,-even more than the idolaters: Each one of them wishes He could be given a life of a thousand years: But the grant of such life will not save him from (due) punishment. For Allah sees well all that they do.'
i don't see any jews in this verse.
architectlicious 3 years ago
There as you said, are many transliterations, and one would have to read more than that one verse to understand that Mohammad was talking about the Jews. I believe that was more a paraphase, than a quote. Nevertheless, while the 3 major english translations don't refer specifically to Jews, the context when read with the verses that precede 2:96 is about the Jews of Yathrib.
wideawake123 3 years ago
"one verse to understand that Mohammad was talking about the Jews"
yeah i agree, that's why i read the verses before it and after it. No "jews" ;)
architectlicious 3 years ago
I hope this helps :)
According to sunni scholar Ibn Abbas, it is referring to Jews;-
(And thou) O Muhammad! (wilt find them) the Jews (greediest of mankind for any life) to remain in this world (and (greedier) than the idolaters) even greedier than the Arab idolaters.
Ibn Abbas is considered one of the top Tafsir scholars.
dhimmiwit 3 years ago
dhimm
hun i don't care what a "scholar" would say. The quran is CRYSTAL CLEAR, it doesn't say jews over there.
I don't need any scholar to tell me HOW to read. Open the quran, and u WON'T find jews in there.
the verses BEFORE that mentioned jews who WORSHIPED A COW for crying out loud. If they go to hell, i couldn't care less. They asked for it.
and if he meant THOSE specific jews, i don't know. But he made a mistake on GENERALIZING them, hence he failed as a scholar
architectlicious 3 years ago
archi, maybe Abbas was echoing the central theme of the Qur'an, the later verses in particular where there is a lot of hatred for the Jews.
I presume debate with you is useless then as you have your own understanding of the Qur'an and do not refer, as I do, to ahadith and Tafsirs.
Do you consider ANY scholars opinions or Ahadith of any value or just your own?
I'm not trying to be clever, I'm just curious:)
dhimmiwit 3 years ago
"there is a lot of hatred for the Jews."
what :S?! is that why our prophet married a Jewish woman! is that why they made treaties with the jews!!
what kind of hate are u talking about. SPECIFIC jews were bad, not all of them. Is that why our quran tells us they'll enter heaven? i mean u really wanna tell me debating me is useless? U don't know the quran as much as u seem to show me.
____
"do not refer, as I do, to ahadith and Tafsirs. "
do u know that NOT ALL hadeeths r accurate?
architectlicious 3 years ago
"as I do, to ahadith and Tafsirs. "
BTW, there ARE many tafsirs that are good. We have MANY shaykhs that I AGREE with in Kuwait for ex.
and many islamic scholars that i do agree with as well. For ex. the Scholar Abdulrahman Abdulghany
he's REALLY good in making tafsirs..
but i DON'T agree with a scholar if he ain't making sense.
U seem to FOLOW ANY SCHOLAR since u don't know what to think for urself
architectlicious 3 years ago
i'm 21 years old and i'm a BORN muslim. there are SCHOLARS, hear that? SCHOLARS, saying its ok to rape women if they ain't wearing a hijab. I DARE ANY1 to show me a verse in the quran that says that.
RAPING is FORBIDDIN & 1 of the major sins in the quran. If ur gonna follow scholars without putting the facts straight then debate is useless with u sir
I've heard about CRAZY scholars,i've heard scholars that r extremists in SOME aspects. I've heard scholars that follow the quran & are JUST FINE
architectlicious 3 years ago
The Scholars that I have to rely on (as my understanding of the 7thC localized Quraysh dialect used in Al Qur'an is limited) are ones, I think, that are generally accepted by Muslims (well, Sunnis) Ibn Kathir, Ibn Abbas, Jalalayn.
I'm sure there are crazy scholars, you're right.
Where is the verse in the Qur'an that strictly forbids rape and has it as '1 of the major sins'? Just curious coz some of the Muslims & Kuffar think raping a non-believing slave is fine in 4;23 & 33;50.
dhimmiwit 3 years ago
OH REALLY?
lets see what 4:23 says shall we? [4:23]
Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers, daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck), foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no prohibition if ye have not gone in;- .. (to be continued)
architectlicious 3 years ago
rest of the verse
"..(Those who have been) wives of your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful;-"
WHERE DOES IT SAY RAPE? :) exactly!
architectlicious 3 years ago
here's the OTHER verse
"[33:50]
O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- .."
architectlicious 3 years ago
the rest of the verse
".. this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."
uuuuh I DON'T SEE ANY "RAPE"
SERIOUSLY, where do u get this crap (pardon my french) from?
architectlicious 3 years ago
dhimmiwit
we have SEVEN MAJOR sins in islam that LEAD U STRAIGHT to hell
raping is one of them
its FORBIDDEN to have sex with some1 who isn't ur wife, and IT IS FORBIDDEN for u to have sex with ur wife if she does not wish to have sex with u.
I don't know how u guys think I MEAN SERIOUSLY
QUOTE to me where the scholar "U RELY ON" say that raping is ok :)
if they TRULY said that, then they're twisted.
architectlicious 3 years ago
in the quran for ex. in verse 4:25 it says its "ok" to marry a slave (but ofcourse he has to set her free once he took her) it doesn't say its ok to "rape" her!
I mean seriously sir, did YOU read the verse YOURSELF? or have u copy pasted it!?
i mean why do i ALWAYS have people saying something about a verse, and when i go check ITS TOTALLY the opposite?
Please do research before u "RELY" on somebody.
good bye
architectlicious 3 years ago
Wow, I've just read 4:25. I didn't realise until now that Muslims are permitted to have Muslim slaves, I thought they were only allowed Kuffar slaves.
Ps I didn't say rape was permitted in the Qur'an, I said some Muslims and Kuffar have interpreted some translations of those verses as such.
Is it still permitted for Muslims to own Muslim slaves? (as it's in the Qur'an it must be I guess) :(
dhimmiwit 3 years ago
"I didn't realise until now that Muslims are permitted to have Muslim slaves, I thought they were only allowed Kuffar slaves."
actually they don't. Slaves were there before muslims arrived. To free them, the prophet told ppl to buy them and set them free :) that's y there aren't slaves left, because the prophet told them to do it this way.
___
"interpreted some translations of those verses as such. "
they're twisted
architectlicious 3 years ago
"Kuffar slaves"
since u don't know alot in islam i'm gonna clear that up. The slave was a slave, we never said kufar and not kufar
anyway, Kafir isn't some1 who ain't muslim. A kafir means some1 who doesn't believe in god. So if ur an athiest, ur a kafir. If u were a jew or a christian u aren't a kafir.
hope it makes sense
architectlicious 3 years ago
"s it still permitted for Muslims to own Muslim slaves"
no its forbidden. But the prophet removed that gradually, the same thing he did with alcohol. He didn't forbid it during one night. He said to lessen it bit by bit until they were free of it then he forbid it. He wanted to make it easier on the muslims who had bad habits before.
The same thing with slaves
architectlicious 3 years ago
Archi, Which verse in the Qur'an proclaims the emancipation act in Islam?
I know where the prohibition act is.
I have seen a verse or verses in the Qur'an where it is a penance to free a BELIEVING slave, but I cannot find the abolition of slavery. Verse please?
Is it in the Qur'an or from the mouth of one of your scholars?
You've gotta give me verses or go crazy looking for them lol x
dhimmiwit 3 years ago
"BELIEVING slave, but I cannot find the abolition of slavery. Verse please?"
actually its is forbidden to enslave any1 muslim or non muslim :) ur terrible at researching
___
"Is it in the Qur'an or from the mouth of one of your scholars?"
everything i have told u is from the quran
__
"translate it as meaning 'friends'"
couldn't care less, thank god i'm arabian. I know the truth, that satisfied me enough
architectlicious 3 years ago
architectlicious,
"actually its is forbidden to enslave any1 muslim or non muslim :) ur terrible at researching.....everything i have told u is from the quran"
Please, Archi, you forgot to show me the verse[s], how am I supposed to learn if you do not show me the verses, it's no good you just telling me "its in the Qur'an", otherwise how will I learn?
Where is it "forbidden to enslave any1 muslim or non muslim" in the Qur'an? Which verse?
Dhimmi xx
dhimmiwit 3 years ago
found the vid
here u go
Shaykh Yusuf Estes answering u
watch?v=zw-oZN9d-Hw
i knew that before i even saw the vid, since many haters gave me that verse and i looked it up in the quran and it says awleyaa in arabic.
friends in arabic means "aqdeqa'" (or sadeeq for singular) or "khaleel"
get an arabic-english dictionary & find out FOR YOURSELF
architectlicious 3 years ago
architectlicious,
I've sent you a PM with a little bit of Arabic that I would love for you to translate for me!
I hope you don't mind, but I know its easy for you to translate.
Thanx very much, I do appreciate your input, its educational for me!
Dhimmi x
dhimmiwit 3 years ago
and finally dhimmiwit
i say this always, whether ur an athiest or a believer in another religion.
I pray that the ONE TRUE GOD guides us all to the right path.
Amen
architectlicious 3 years ago
oh lookey here dhimmiwit
i saw this in ur site :P!!
"Believ ers, take not Jews and
Christians for your friends...."
do u know what the word in arabic was used?
oh don't "look it up" i'll tell u, its "awleyaa"
awleyaa doesn't mean friends :) TOO BAD u proved u DON'T know arabic AT ALL.
awleya' in arabic has 2 meanings
either to be close allies with them, and god doesn't want us to give our SECRETS to them
OR religious ppl as clerics, meanings i don't go ask a PRIEST how to pray:)
architectlicious 3 years ago
Oh archi, I enjoy looking things up!
I know you don't like translations, but Ahmed Ali, Pickthal, Shakir, Yusuf Ali and Ibn Abbas, to name a few, translate it as meaning 'friends'
Why should your definition of a word carry more weight than all these scholars that are expert in the ancient dialect?
Maybe YOU could make your own translation, that would be a great idea, and educational for me! (though you may struggle without Ahadith to give you a bit of context)
Thanks xx
dhimmiwit 3 years ago
"Why should your definition of a word carry more weight than all these scholars that are expert in the ancient dialect?"
actually there are many scholars have translated it into "allies" :)
check out Shahih international
and check out YUSUF ESTES saying on that specific words. I am arabian, i know what an arabic word means.
Guess what MANY SCHOLARS AGREE WITH ME.
wait lemme find a video of Yusuf estes saying THE SAME exact thing i told u, and i'm PROUD that there r shaykhs that agree with me
architectlicious 3 years ago
"Maybe YOU could make your own translation"
first i didn't choose to study islamic education at university. As u can see i'm studing architecture. That's where my nickname came from.
If ppl want to believe it is "friends" they can do so i couldn't care less. I KNOW the truth, & that's what's imp. to me. If some non-arabians found out the truth its because THEY TRIED to find the truth & they god it
architectlicious 3 years ago
"(though you may struggle without Ahadith to give you a bit of context) "
u don't need a hadeeth to know a meaning of the word. the book ur looking for is A DICIONARY.
and btw u REALLY do suck in arabic. its HADEETH, not ahadeeth.
no wonder u don't know anything, its because u copy paste from ppl who don't know anything as well
architectlicious 3 years ago
Please forgive me, I thought the plural form of Hadith was 'Ahadith'(phonetically)I thought I would look even sillier than normal if I wrote 'hadiths'
I appreciate your educating me, thank you!
*slinks away embarrassed, tail between legs*
dhimmiwit 3 years ago
"*slinks away embarrassed, tail between legs*"
I'm enjoying this discussion wit.
'licious is a pretty nice girl.
wideawake123 3 years ago
Oh, Archi,
I noticed earlier that when I cited a verse number (4.23, 33.50), you quoted me Yusuf Ali's translation. Is this the translation that you recommend for agnostics and unbelievers like me?
Its just that Yusuf Ali translates 5.51 as 'friends'
As you are fluent in the ancient dialect, I think it would be great if you could maybe give me YOUR translation of the verse so as to clear the misunderstanding up?
barlicker 3 years ago
Sorry I used my spare account there Archi, I thought it might get your attention.
To be honest, some of my muslim friends have advised me that Yusuf Ali's translation is a bit watered down, and a lot of the language is 'infidel friendly'. plus he likes to add words to the Qur'an that are not there in the Arabic in a way that aims to deceive.
That's why I think it is great that you are fluent in Quraysh Arabi, and could help clear up some misconceptions.
Thanks again! xx
dhimmiwit 3 years ago
its ok dhimm, I quoted those verses cuz I checked the Arabic verse n I dnt remember ne seeing anything different:)
btw sorry I was busy today packing, I'm traveling a week to Europe, when I come back inshalla I'll be free to translate the verses, with the best I can.
tc n c ya soon
peace be upon u
architectlicious 3 years ago 2
yeah yusufali has many verses that arnt accurate. However some are the same. Ihavent yetseen a translation that was accurate:(
anyway, so I can know with who I'm dealing with, u an athiest a Christian or a Jew?
cuz mm I won't b trying to prove anything if u were an athiest:p with experience I learned that they deny god is there PERIOD so yeah u r:p??
Thx bbye
architectlicious 3 years ago 2
dhimm
our quran made it clear that MANY christians and jews will enter paradise and they are good people and NOT in some way "greedy". That verse may be meant to other people, OR SPECIFIC jews, which are dead by now i suppose. However, i mean if he was a SCHOLAR, he would have paid attention to the details. He didn't.
I don't take anything from any scholar. I have the quran that's enough.
If i can understand it, any1 can
architectlicious 3 years ago
" don't bother .. theirs will be an awful doom"?
that's a shame wideawake? guess what i just found when i searched for 2:6
"[2:6]
As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe."
architectlicious 3 years ago
Yes, but "believe" what, 'licious? I guess the biggest problem I have is with the zealotry of it. I assume you don't think someone like Ghandi, or Confusious is rotting in Hell...do you? It's the whole fundamentalist ideological movement that's raised my ire.
wideawake123 3 years ago
ghandi? i am not the judge of ghandi :P god is the judge.
But u have to remember hell is for a reason. If u believe that EVER1 will go to heaven, then what's the point of hell.
right? but about MY BELIEF, i believe that many jews, christians, and muslims will enter paradise. n infants, n mentally retarded ppl (who can't think for themselves) n ppl who pray to ONE god, but don't have a religion.
that's what i BELIEVE.since we ALL do not KNOW what's gonna happen
May the true god guide us
Amen
architectlicious 3 years ago
Matthew 7:15-23
JESUS SAID: "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. BY THEIR FRUIT YOU WILL RECOGNIZE THEM." Satan was the Angel who gave the Koran to MuhamMAD. MuhamMAD'S FRUIT: Pedophile, Greed and Murder.
CrusaderBeliever 3 years ago
Some lovely verses there. Allah certainly don't hold back with the mercy and lovin of his predestined creatures! I think it would be nice if someone did an equally lovin version of the Forty Hadiths.
Ronald McDonald-hu-akbar!
Allah is a spoilt brat.
dhimmiwit 3 years ago