BSL word ordering

[MISTORY2011]

im learning bsl level 1 i understand that you said the word order is different and then you gave a sample sentence. however it would be really good if you add subtitles.

just something to consider, your signing is good though

[deafgroup01]

basicly he is saying about bsl word order, and yeah he is not fluent bsl which is strange, how can he present a bsl presentation is your not good at it, he seems a level one but keep trying :)

[tigger2laugh]

yep.. that's true.. English is my most promble but not anymore cos my english has improve. it's take me 9 year to improve but i think its need improve my english

[pazsordo]

Hi Im from USA, your sign language is great !

[cudgybudgie]

Within BSL linguistics does'nt the subject come first then the verb and object last ? SVO? not time line first?

[signbrat01]

i have no clue what is BSL is and I am in ASL... this is totally interesting to watch!

[garethjtube]

Glad you found it interesting. I'm not fluent so I'd advise checking out other BSL videos (e.g. from bjfletcher) but hopefully this video gives you some idea :)

[signbrat01]

I have noticed you are not fluent in BSL i dont mind at all.... I Just have no clue what U say on this video..... I am trying to figure it out..... Dang man...interesting to watch!

[garethjtube]

Have a look at the link in the description of the video - that gives a rough transcript. Enjoy!

[properuseofBSL]

I am shaking my head in despair at this video clip - the explanations of BSL syntax were not accurate. Teachers who are Deaf native users of BSL and qualified are the best people to learn from. (BTW his BSL is not fluent yet!)

[garethjtube]

I've always been quite clear that I'm learning BSL and am not an expert in any way or even close to being fluent. I try to share my experiences in the hope that people can learn things as I do and I entirely agree that the best people from which to learn BSL are Deaf native qualified teachers. Perhaps a more constructive comment from yourself would be to point out what was not accurate in my clip so that I and other people reading can learn?

[properuseofBSL]

Here are some constructive comments as requested:

* the WHAT sign was signed downwards when it should have stayed in the same location.

* for the TREE sign, you need to rotate your wrist

* TIMELINE - use index finger only to sign LINE after signing TIME

* CAN - orientation needs to be toward your face

* your example of "TREE BLACK CAT CLIMB" - it is more natural to become the cat and climb, i.e. you become the cat and you climb up the tree (in front of you) with eyes looking up.

[garethjtube]

Thanks very much for your comments; this will help anyone viewing the video to understand either what I've done wrong or other ways of doing things. One problem with languages is that they are often flexible and hence used in different ways. Something to one person that is incorrect is the only right way of doing it for someone else. I'm no BSL expert so I won't comment on your specific responses here but I have been taught conflicting things by different teachers and other native BSL users.

[garethjtube]

By the way, this is a *much* better response to my video than your previous one. Simply slating a video without any constructive feedback is not productive and may even be upsetting for the recipient. I understand it is frustrating to see inaccurate uses of BSL but remember this is a social site. Videos of singing, dancing and whatever else on YouTube are not expected to be done by professionals, as are videos like this. In future, supporting people who are trying to learn would be appreciated.

[bjfletcher]

wouldn't say your feedback is how it's meant to be, e.g:

"you become the cat and you climb up the tree (in front of you) with eyes looking up."

let's say you observed a cat going up the tree, and then a dog chasing it.. you may either: be the cat, and look backward and describe the dog chasing after you;

or be the observer and do it the way Gareth did, describing cat going up, and then dog chasing after it, with Gareth's eyes/face tracing the movements of both

both are ok

[bjfletcher]

Hi "properuseofBSL",

Perhaps you'd like to make a video response explaining what's up with Gareth's video so we can understand?

Perhaps you'd like to meet Gareth's deaf teachers who taught him and supplied him with the materials, and tell them where they did it wrong?

Did you get everything 100% right the first time at school?

Do you want to have a chat about the shortage of people in UK who can use BSL, how are we to encourage people to learn if all that you do is to put them down?

Ben :-|

[properuseofBSL]

Ben

You brought up a few issues in your comments:-

a. Would you accept French tuition from someone who only learnt BSL for maybe 2 or 3 years?

b. My issue is not with Gareth's BSL teacher(s) - it is how hearing ppl perceive the clip as accurate.

c. I believe that native BSL users, who are trained to teach BSL, should be uploading videos so that GOOD USE of BSL is promoted.

d. Alas I am one of those who like to view clips and not upload video clips due to shyness!

[zeldagoblin]

Hi gareth, I am currently studying BSL and really struggling with word order. Is there a book or site you can recommend? I understood some of this but not all, and I really need to get a grip of the grammar, it is really vexing me. Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks

[garethjtube]

Hi. If you follow the link in the description of the video you will find a written description that accompanies the video; hopefully that will help a little. If you want a more detail explanation of BSL concepts, I would definitely recommend a book called 'The Linguistics of British Sign Language' (ISBN 9780521637183) - it goes into a lot of detail but I found it very helpful and really interesting.

Please let me know if I can be of any more help and good luck with your course!

[zeldagoblin]

That is fab!! Thanks so much, your signing is awesome, I hope I can be as fluent one day. I'm hoping to work with deaf children and families, so I really need to 'get' this. My mock assessment is tonight!

[pebblebrown]

Hey, i'm fluent in SSE (sign supported english) and have many friends who use BSL and we talk fine. I want to do BSL levels 1-3, though am wondering would i be able to pass level 1 (beng fluent in SSE) or would i need do take the whole course? Because i don't really want to have to learn theo whole alphabet and numbers etc all over again. What do u think?

[garethjtube]

I'm no expert in the requirements of the qualification so it might be worth directing this question at CACDP. Having said that, I would imagine SSE is not enough on its own but if you have a very basic understanding of BSL grammar (and can use it) then you should be fine. I'm not sure if you can take the exams without taking a course though as you are examined by the course tutor. I'd be interested to hear what happens either way - please let me know.

[pebblebrown]

Yeah sure. I want to be able to do all three courses before i go on my gap year as when i come back i want to do deaf studies at uni and need level 3 bsl. So i think i'll try and find a fast track level 1 course if i can! I've been friends with deaf people ever since i was 6 so have had 11 years experience, so hopefully i can pick up bsl word ordering easily!

[sw33tdreams13]

Very true, I think that all sign language has it's differences. Well, thank you for posting these blogs, maybe I can keep learning both languages. :0) For some reason the link would not let me open it in a new window so I have not been able to read the blog post. Probably my computer. Keep posting these! Thanks!

[garethjtube]

Well have a hunt around on blog [dot] garethj [dot] com (for some reason I can't put links in here) and you'll find a few BSL-related posts I've written that might be of interest. Enjoy :)

[sw33tdreams13]

I am an ASL 2 student and I have never really seen BSL in action. I know my BSL alphabet and some of the colors. I am an ASL 2 student. I know that you signed something like black bear climbing a tree. That was all I understood.

[garethjtube]

Thanks for your comments :) I'm currently studying BSL level 3 and don't know much ASL at all (I did learn the alphabet once but can't say I remember it!). This video is a BSL version of a blog post where I explain a little about BSL word ordering (see the 'About This Video' bit). Hopefully that will help you understand what I was (trying to!) sign.

[sw33tdreams13]

So the word black bear was not in it? lol I thought that I saw you use the word black. I know about three colors.

ASL you only need to sign with one hand. I think that it is a bit easier when you are holding something with the other hand. I am partial because I learned ASL first. I am trying to learn a little BSL so that if I ever go to England to visit family I can use it.

[garethjtube]

'Black cat', so pretty close :) One-handed fingerspelling has it's advantages as you say but I think two-handed does make it easier to distinguish the differences between the letters. Not much in it though really - just two different systems. I imagine there are quite a few ASL signs that are similar or at least understandable by BSL users and I assume sign languages cross borders must more easily that spoken languages. Good luck with your learning.