SOP(standard operating procedure) is that pepper spray is used at lengths of no closer than 6 inches as it could damaged the eyes with a needle like effect, similar to air canisters.
Occupy Tulsa is a joke...In the two days that have elapsed since my first report, the thread regarding the vigil at the Tulsa jail has disappeared completely from their facebook page. One of those threads contained a VERY critical statement from the daughter of the man murdered by the subject of OT's vigil. Wonder if that will show up on Olbermann's show?
This just in...The Occupy Tulsa bunch is currently holding a candlelight vigil in support of an accused murderer who's rights they feel have been violated by the continued delays by the court. Unfortunately they didn't think it through...the accused has multiple convictions for violent offenses, he's fired three defense attorneys, and ADMITTED TO THE CRIME. I would like to know, sympathizers, how "the 1%" is at fault for this one. Discuss.
Oklahoma law office will file lawsuit against these men if u were pepper sprayed contact: Winters King and associates. these men will lose the jobs they hold.
Right now there are soldiers, sailors and marines being court-marshaled for using pepper spray on passive, seated detainees. Some of them will spend 10 years in Leavenworth Prison for doing this to suspected Iraqi Insurgents. Do Iraqi Insurgents have more protection than the Citizens of Tulsa Oklahoma? Even if we don't agree with these kids we have to choose the right from the wrong and admit that just because we disagree with them doesn't mean they don't have human rights.Is this still America?
" just because we disagree with them doesn't mean they don't have human rights.Is this still America?"
Of course they have human rights, but they are still violating the law and actively resisting arrest. Whether we like it or not, this grants the police authority to use pain and physical force to coerce compliance. It is almost criminal that we demand our police to enforce the law while simultaneously smearing them when they do exactly that.
@AntiCitizenX No smearing, just shocked and embarrassed that this is all over the damned news making Tulsa look like 1960s Russia or Tehran or other equally messed up place to the rest of the damned world! I didn't give a tinker's damn about these occupy people until I saw the video of passive,seated Americans having their heads held while having a chemical agent squirted up their noses.Nobody in Tulsa wants this, nobody voted for this kind of crap, how in the hell did this become commonplace?
Do you have a better way of forcing the removal and arrest and an uncooperative suspect? I see a lot of bashing on the cops without any regard for the fact that they have a judicial obligation to uphold the law. So please explain to me the proper way to bravely deal with someone who resists arrest.
@AntiCitizenX Suspect? Suspected of what? Freedom of Assembly? Better just kill those scary seated protesters before they start exercising other constitutional rights,eh?
Sorry, but you do not have the constitutional right to resist arrest. You do not have the constitutional right to disobey the lawful orders of a police officer. You do not have the constitutional right to violate curfews. You do not have the constitutional right to comfortable handling when you violate the law. You do not have the constitutional right to second chances after failure to abide by basic civics.
@AntiCitizenX An order is not "lawful" when it violates the constitutional rights of the citizens they are supposed to SERVE. This nation is dead if the baloney that comes out of some fascist cog's mouth trumps the US Constitution which doesn't say fuckall about permits of curfews or any other GD made up fascist crap.
"An order is not "lawful" when it violates the constitutional rights of the citizens they are supposed to SERVE"
Even if the curfew law is unconstitutional, resisting arrest is still against the law. Sorry, but them's the breaks. It is not for the officers to decide which laws to enforce. That is for courts. If you don't like it, fight it in court of use the 2nd amendment to defend yourself. But ignoring basic civics does not help anything.
@AntiCitizenX You don't get it, there is a hierarchy to laws and certain laws trump other laws. The USC/BOR trumps all other laws. The cops became "redcoats" the day they did this and that means that someone from the federal government needs to come and arrest them.
It does not matter if an officer searches your vehicle without a warrant, confiscates your wallet, or arrests you outright. You are legally required to comply. Restitution is gained in your trial, wherein any evidence found without cause is thrown out. You then file legal punitive charges against the offending officer through your local ACLU.
If you honestly think you're living under fascism, why don't you just buy some guns, get your friends together, and rebel?
@AntiCitizenX Do you know any Oklahoma Common Law? I'll bet you are an LEO aren't you? Time for you to brush up on the difference between Civil Policy(not ratified by reps) and actual the LAW.Oklahoma Common Law explicitly states that a citizen has the right to RESIST UNLAWFUL ARREST by any means necessary up to and including DEADLY FORCE. I know that's a hard pill to swallow but it's been the law since statehood and no rep will commit political suicide by overturning it. Harsh stuff isn't it?
Unlawful arrest is an extremely difficult thing to prove. The officer pretty much has to be attacking you without any provocation whatsoever. I also fail to see how the pepper spray in this incident qualifies as unlawful. The protesters were also in violation of the law. Keith himself said so. Officers are legally granted one level of force above the suspects. So do you want them to uphold the law or not? Do you want cops to pick and choose which laws they like?
@AntiCitizenX Like I said previously, there is a hierarchy of laws and some laws trump others and that is what you don't seem to get. One level of force above immobile seated "suspects" would have been harsh language and gently picking them up and carrying them to a paddy wagon for a ride downtown. Using painful compliance techniques on people exercising their right to freely assembly, speech, redress grievances is the kind or crap they do in North Korea or Iran. Where is our moral High Ground?
If you think a little pepper spray qualifies as brutality, then by all means, please explain to me how you would remove unlawful trespassers who physically refuse to cooperate. What do you do when they link arms and prevent you from dragging them off nicely one at a time? Just because the resistance is nonviolent does not mean a legal arrest is being resisted.
Nah, forget all that pesky civics. All cops are just fascist pigs working for da man.
@AntiCitizenX It's a leap forward in acceptable force continuum.Passive, immobile people should not have pain/compliance techniques used on them. They should be bodily picked up and carried off site or if you insist on Tulsa Civil Code trumping the USC/BOR a paddy wagon and haul them away.Look,I am a clean cut,God fearing,tax payer and I think these people are pretty weird but I do know the law and I know these people have certain rights and should expect decent treatment from civil servants.
"Passive, immobile people should not have pain/compliance techniques used on them."
Except they are technically not passive. Linking arms together prevents individuals from being carried away. It is an active form of resistance because no single person can be moved without having to haul away the entire group. They do this deliberately because they know it frustrates the officers' efforts to make a simple arrest. Pain techniques are designed to get them to let go of the group.
@FromanMD You said you pay your taxes....Let me ask you, do you own the place were you squat, and is that place in the city limits of Tulsa or own a peice of land in the Tulsa city limits? If the answer is no, then you dont pay any of the Officers salaries. You better hope there arent Officers on here that know how you are, cause I can tell ya, if they do, you better move out of town. I'm a Police Officer and I have run across several of you folks. You a sad excuse for sperm. Antiamerican.
@jholt4021 You're the one who wants to get a case of the redass because some kids want to exercise their constitutional right to free speech. This country was founded by political protesters who wanted to send heavy handed goons packing back to England. Who's Anti-American? As for you and your friends wanting to use your police powers to silence your critics that happens to be a Federal Offense,but more importantly a million dollar payday for anyone with a good civil attorney. So, be my guest :D
@jholt4021 you're an asshole, and you don't deserve to call yourself a cop. YOU are Anti-American. You work for US, and we don't need YOU. You do know that part of the utility bills we pay, on top of other taxes, goes toward your salary, right? How uneducated you are. Just another dumb ass with delusions of grandeur who wanted a quick ladder to a power trip. You're not a cop. You're a Thug in a Uniform.
@itrich50 Comments like "STFU Olbermann...why were you canned from MSNBC??? DOH!" are not exposing anything but your ignorance since Olbermann was not canned. The way you begin with "STFU" is something I would expect from a small child.
@OneActivist uh huh...let me remind you of what you said there, professor: "Olberman left MSNBC because he refused to follow same the corporate rules that OWS rebels against". Exactly where did you learn grammar? Call me a troll if you must, but if you are going to sit on your lofty intellectual throne and slam me for being childish the least you could do is learn to put the ords together in the right order.
Itrich. Olberman left MSNBC because he refused to follow same the corporate rules that OWS rebels against. As for web sites deleting childish attacks,it's because they have more productive things to do than argue with you.
@OneActivist If you call exposing the hypocrisy of the movement arguing, I guess so. I mean, I have the right to free speech too. I just don't throw it in peoples faces like you do. I just want my voice heard in support of the side that has the rule of law. What is also hypocritical about this BS is the fact that the ordinance these people were arrested by went unnoticed until these people decided to start singing koombayah.
@61TUNER, you wouldn't know a hypocrite if it jumped up and bit you on your ass. If you support these guys...and it's your privledge to do so...know that the idiots you hold out as champions of the right of free speech are very likely deleting all dissenting opinions from the various websites and social networking, invalidating the argument that they are being victimized and abused by the police. In short, you are supporting hypocrites. You're welcome.
The definition of resisting is too vauge! One man looked like he was already handcuffed. Pepper spray can be DEADLY and the Police know that! This looked like police burtality!
Sometimes laws are wrong or unjust, as I believe the one creating a curfew in a public park is. The lawmakers are people and people are frequently wrong. If we all accepted all laws laid down we would live in a colony of England.
This is a disgusting display of a cop, trying to be "cute". It might give him something to talk about after hours, but is in no way a reflection of protect and serve w/honor. The guy must have been cuffed. Why else would he not react to pepper spray, especially at very close range like that? If there really are "good cops" out there, (and, there are) where were they when this violation on a citizen took place? Did "they" only send the bad ones?
@jholt4021 I totally agree with you. linking your arms together and refusing police orders "NOT resisting?" are you kidding me? They had it coming to them. They had plenty of warning. The police respectfully asked them to leave several times. By refusing police order your resisting. There not saying you can't protest. They just ask that you acknowledge the park curfew. That's it. and then after the curfew is over, they can return. What is so hard about that?
EVERYONE THAT SHITS ON THE POLICE SHOULD LOOSE THE RIGHT TO CALL UPON THEM WHEN YOUR GETTING THE SHIT KICKED OUT OF YOU OR ROBBED OR ANY OTHER CRIMINAL ACT. FORCE WAS USED ONLY AFTER THEY REFUSED TO DEPART FROM THE PARK PEACEFULLY. YOU SPEAK OF THE LAW, BUT CLEARLY VIOLATE THE CURFEW THAT YOUR ELECTED MAYOR ORDERED
"The universal rights of assembly and free speech must be protected, and the United States stands with all who seek to exercise those rights." -- President Barack Obama (speaking about actions in foreign lands)
Find this fucking faggot cop and show him how tough he really is. This is why Police in America are looked at the wrong way, because of idiots like this. FUCK THE POLICE!
This is SO reminiscent of the scenes in the movie Idiocracy, where the retard cops spray pvt. Joe Bauer (the star) in the face all the time, just because, duh, it's our default response...
Two wrongs never make a right. The protesters are violating either private property rights or local ordinances for occupying spaces illegallly, The police are using undue force to make a simple arrest. Both are wrong and charges should be filed and these matters handled judicially. That is what we do in a civalized country of law and order.
THE TULSA OKLAHOMA POLICE FALSELY ARRESTED ME AUGUST 21,2008 AND GOT AWAY WITH IT. THE COURTS ACTUALLY HELPED THEM GET AWAY WITH IT. I WAS THROWN IN JAIL FOR EIGHT DAYS THEY PUT CHARGES ON ME AND I WAS INTERROGATED FOR 8 MONTHS .THESE PEOPLE ARE THE KKK WORKING IN THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM OF TULSA.THEY ARE WICKED AND CRUEL RACIST. THE COURTS HELPED THEM GET AWAY WITH IT, SO WHATEVER HAPPENS TO THE TULSA POLICE NEEDS TO HAPPEN AND I HOPE JUSTICE IS SERVED.
@kaizerlion No doubt about it! Just wait until their union contract is rescinded! Then they will do a complete 180- they are cops because they are room temperature IQ morons...
we need shirts with our rights written on them at the time of protest... Once the mainstream catches on to this more people will get involved.. Problem is the average american find politics boring and only cares about celebrity gossip and doesn't know their own rights.. We may have to literally spell it out for people...
Big bad coppers with pepper spray, and pepperball guns. Been down there a dozen times after curfew never a word said to me. But as soon as people with a specific grievance show up to make their collective voice heard the police show their true colors. They selectively enforce a curfew that is violated every night by passers by, by homeless people that sleep down there nearly every night which the Police selectively ignore.
@weezoonline You own those parks? And you speak of committing crimes yourself to keep people out of 'your' parks? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite? And regarding your "better ways" - what specifically have you done so that we may eminate your better way?
These people have been so indoctrinated by the system that they can't even think for themselves, they have no morals. They could have carried that person out to a vehicle for transportation, but instead they decided to abuse power. This is very wrong, and no decent cop will act like this. Very sad to see this kind of action by the police.
@rwc656 ...certainly not by me. The man being sprayed was most DEFINITELY not resisting anything at the time of the spraying. This spraying caught on video at this specific time was a heinous, abusive misuse of power.
@rwc565 Please specifically explain to me how sitting down is resisting?? Please explain that. And you say he wasn't cuffed, how do you know? And how would it be even remotely possible to be sprayed in the face and not automatically bring your hands to a defensive posture? He was bound. The police had EVERY right to arrest these people probable cause of breaking their city laws. Any guilty or not guilty verdict would be determined in the COURTROOM not on the street and certainly ...
@soapbxprod It is going down the road, if this keeps up things will and should turn violent against this corporate cops who are slaves to the money masters. Makes me sick. Now we know why some of them are call pigs.
NO!! THis is exactly what PD is looking for. They're PROVOKING protesters so they fall in the trap of using violence ! Occupiers are showing, confirming, they're NOT a violent group. They're not aggressive, even when facing provocation : They were SITTING, ARMS LINKING..It's clearley seen in this video. To the PD I say : THERE'S NO HONOR IN HURTING UNARMED HUMAN BEINGS. This is called COWARDICE. You're dishonoring you uniforms !!
@1961precious One of two things will happen- either the PD will side with the protesters- as in the Eastern Bloc in the late 1980s- or they will side with the Banks/corporations- as in the Ford Riots and the Bonus marches in the 1930s. Only time will tell...
I agree. However, my point was that Occupiers should never be encouraged to retaliate , when provoked by violent mistreating by PD. That's a set up. A trap. (re. "spray them back"). Be blessed.
I hope the officers who were involved get demoted or fired! This is not only unprofessional, but violent. Every person in a position of authority should use their influence to hold these officers accountable. Ridiculous!
Yo Love and Support from Occupy Philly...I hope ACLU jumps on that cop before the Marines get him.... Any one and I mean anyone who does not see this as an abuse of power has there head in they're ass...You don't even have to support the movement to see this. And then people wonder why there is so much HATE towards the cops..Really !? You wonder??? Cops in Philly like this every day... Cops do 1 THING They serve the 1 %....
Pepper Spray is Dangerous and one needs first aid to the Eyes immediately. Tulsa already has a pending lawsuit for Pepper Spraying a man jogging late at night in his boxer shorts and he was chased, pepper sprayed while hogtied and he died. His mom said she could hear her son who was on medication screaming. according to news reports. That case does not enclude all the lawsuits over the police corruption case that just ended. WOW.
What the F#$% That's just outrageous. Chemical agents should NEVER be used in this manner...EVER. They're meant to be used only if the officer is in some kind of imminent danger in order to disable an assailant. This was not only blatantly wrong but I should think actionable.
@sunsetmauve No..Pepper spray is the 2nd step on the use of force continuum. The first step is hands on, the protesters clearly tensed up and resisted being arrested. Therefore, pepper spray was correctly used.
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its resisting for him to just sit there. Get up and get the hell out of my parks. There are better ways to bring down the 1% than just sitting around trashing where my kids play. I might have to go out and taze those hippies and hipsters myself
@weezoonline - Nice trolling. Guess what? They're not only your parks, but also that of your fellow Americans. Please read up on United States history in between drag races. Oh, and tasers are for pussies.
getting arrested for exercising the 1st amendment....lovely especially on public streets where no permits are needed. even more lovely. Good Job on protecting and serving shit you don't fucking know about 5-0
@rserzy So do you believe that spraying a man in the face at close range who was restrained and on the ground was justified here because they didn't have a permit?
@SemiSweetMakeup The question is how could they not expect this to happen without a permit? Everyone knows TPD does not play when it comes to people gathering in the parks past curfew.
YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT>>> WHY DID THE COP SPRAY A CUFFED MAN WHO WAS CLEARLY NOT RESISTING??? There was absolutely NO REASON for the officer to spray this man in this way. NONE.
@rednbenji You are 1000% correct, I was there and saw that cop spray him for absolutely no reason. He was cuffed not resisting and the Tulsa Police had complete control of him. The pepper spray was a sick sadistic abuse of police power and that office should lose his badge for the assult he commited against a NON VIOLENT PEACEFUL CITIZEN exercising his 1st Amendment Contitutional Right!!! Whether you agree with the 99% or not The Constution is the Supreme Law of the Land and should be upheld
@rednbenji You are 1000% correct, I was there and saw that cop spray him for absolutely no reason. He was cuffed not resisting and the Tulsa Police had complete control of him. The pepper spray was a sick sadistic abuse of police power and that officer should lose his badge for the assult he commited against a NON VIOLENT PEACEFUL CITIZEN exercising his 1st Amendment Contitutional Right!!! Whether you agree with the 99% or not The Constution is the Supreme Law of the Land and should be upheld
@rednbenji You are 1000% correct, I was there and saw that cop spray him for absolutely no reason. He was cuffed not resisting and the Tulsa Police had complete control of him. The pepper spray was a sick sadistic abuse of police power and that officer should lose his badge for the assult he commited against a NON VIOLENT PEACEFUL CITIZEN exercising his 1st Amendment Contitutional Right!!! Whether you agree with the 99% or not The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land and should be upheld
@rwc565 Breaking the law and resisting. Just like those radicals that broke into a private ship and stole chests of tea owned by a multinational corporation with ties to the most powerful politicians of the time. And then they dumped that tea into the harbor. Criminals.
Those "criminals" knew it would mean war to the "powers-that-be" and did it anyway. But I guess modern Americans should just be servile fools who whine on the interweb and "sit back and take it", while they're betrayed.
@TheBillLumbergh this doesnt apply since the laws they were under they had no representation for, they were ruled by a foreign nation we are not. not to mention it was about too many taxes being levied
@rednbenji And it is not supposed to be used closer that about 5 feet away. This is heavy duty stuff,like what they use for bear repellent. It can cause chemical burns that require medical treatment. Using it this way is basically torture/punishment. Violence -- the first resort of the incompetent.
So to everyone who is focusing on the arrests instead of the actual brutality.....does breaking the law mean that you have no rights? If you are caught stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family does that mean it's okay for people to rape you? Just because the protesters broke the law, does not mean they deserve to be spraying at close range with pepper spray while cuffed and not resisting WHEN HE WAS sprayed. You can't go all willy nilly on someone just because you don't agree with them.
@rednbenji I watched the live stream from justin.tv this night, You are right it does not justify pepperspraying someone that was not resisting but simply sitting there. I am fully ashamed to live in tulsa oklahoma this day after the cops did such a thing. There's plenty of more crime that is going on that should have been taken care of and not wasting tax dollars on a simple protest.
A poor expenditure of city funds and an over-response of police manpower and uncalled-for violence that invites expensive lawsuits. Heard reports that outside private firms were brought in at extra expense for this activity. Not all of the police were from Tulsa.
@marycontrary I didn't even know they had a curfew in that little park and was told they decided to enforce it at that time. I see homeless people sleeping there all the time and they haven't been touched.
It doesn't matter whether or not they were initially breaking the "law" (which I will point out was passed by city council against constitutional rights). The permit or lack of permit is not the issue or the argument. And even if we take the constitution out of the argument (like so many do today)......the man was cuffed, and sitting and was not in a state of resistance. There was absolutely no logical reason for the officer to spray the man other than the officer's own malice. Brutality.
They should be ashamed of themselves. You get a badge, gun and uniform. VOILA - you are made a King to do what ever you like! Peaceful protests - lead to man's face being held while getting pepper sprayed. Shameless act!!! Are there no other crimes going on that need more attention?
Yes, there is a permit required. However, that is almost never enforced. There was a nearby park full of sleeping homeless (the reason for the curfew in the first place) that the cops left totally alone, just like they do every night. This was *not* about curfew. That was just the excuse.
@maggiepower several things I want to clear up, I was the big guy (the second one sprayed) we have applied several times for a permit and it has been denied every time. also the permit is $100 a day plus 1 1/2 million in liability insurance if they approve it, we have been trying to go the legal route from the beginning but we keep getting stonewalled and given the run around
@Trashfished you really should not assume things, most of us in occupy tulsa have 1-3 jobs and a few are students getting an education to get good paying jobs and if we were morons we wouldn't care or be educated enough to think for ourselves and stand up for our rights and we would go on the internet and troll anonymously like yourself
"Congress shall make no law respecting...the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Its the first amendment...and it states that laws like those for insurance and permits that force us to pay for our right to free speech are unconstitutional. In this country should only those with money be able to assemble and petition for change? They also used to have laws making black people and women second class citizens.
And here are some facts behind this story. They refused to get a permit / insurance. They were told they could not set up tents in the park. They were told to leave the park at 11:00 PM all the way through 2:00 AM. The police cleared the park at 2:00 AM. 10 people went back into the park and refused to follow police instruction.
My opinion: What hopes do they have for finding a real job when trespass, loitering and resisting arrest come up on their background check? Bad choice on them.
@tonytricks Ha, Ha, Ha there is a permit required. There is insurance required. The Baptist came here to protest a solders funeral and they pulled a permit. You are a fool to think otherwise.
Wow, really...bmwcloud37?? It's a good thing you made your statement because with a screen name like that, I wasn't sure what side of the fence you were on.
Too bad that clause in the constitution goes on to say as long as the assembly is LAWFUL. I thought that Keith would not show it, and imagine my surprise when he didn't include that part! Obey the law, and then you will be WORTHY of your rights. It's not that hard, is it? You can blame the police all you want but the protestors must understand if they want to get anywhere they must fully obey the laws of curfew rather than ignoring it. People will better connect with them. This just angers me.
@bmwcloud37 "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." LAWFUL does not appear in the 1st amendment.
Exactly! Protestors were doing it peacefully! Resistance? really? They were in a frigging prone postion. They broke their promise for NOT pepper spraying.
@nekodemon145, without causing a huge debate here, I really want to understand your position, You stated that "They broke their promise for NOT pepper spraying". I can't find where that promise was ever made. I would like for you to elaborate on that a little if you may. The force continuum in Tulsa is pepper spray comes before compliance holds because compliance holds can harm arms, joints and such.
@nekodemon145 Second question, again to understand your position, when does resisting the police in any fashion make it right? If I resist the police peacefully or not I am still placed under arrest for whatever I am doing outside of the law. If I am polite during my arrest and say yes sir, no sir but cling to something that prevents them from taking me to jail there are procedures they follow right?
SOP(standard operating procedure) is that pepper spray is used at lengths of no closer than 6 inches as it could damaged the eyes with a needle like effect, similar to air canisters.
TheStarSpawn 1 month ago
Thugs in uniforms. Police. Little cowards.
ytrogergt 1 month ago
Occupy Tulsa is a joke...In the two days that have elapsed since my first report, the thread regarding the vigil at the Tulsa jail has disappeared completely from their facebook page. One of those threads contained a VERY critical statement from the daughter of the man murdered by the subject of OT's vigil. Wonder if that will show up on Olbermann's show?
ltrich50 2 months ago
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This just in...The Occupy Tulsa bunch is currently holding a candlelight vigil in support of an accused murderer who's rights they feel have been violated by the continued delays by the court. Unfortunately they didn't think it through...the accused has multiple convictions for violent offenses, he's fired three defense attorneys, and ADMITTED TO THE CRIME. I would like to know, sympathizers, how "the 1%" is at fault for this one. Discuss.
ltrich50 2 months ago
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Oklahoma law office will file lawsuit against these men if u were pepper sprayed contact: Winters King and associates. these men will lose the jobs they hold.
98tripper 2 months ago
Right now there are soldiers, sailors and marines being court-marshaled for using pepper spray on passive, seated detainees. Some of them will spend 10 years in Leavenworth Prison for doing this to suspected Iraqi Insurgents. Do Iraqi Insurgents have more protection than the Citizens of Tulsa Oklahoma? Even if we don't agree with these kids we have to choose the right from the wrong and admit that just because we disagree with them doesn't mean they don't have human rights.Is this still America?
FromanMD 2 months ago
@FromanMD
" just because we disagree with them doesn't mean they don't have human rights.Is this still America?"
Of course they have human rights, but they are still violating the law and actively resisting arrest. Whether we like it or not, this grants the police authority to use pain and physical force to coerce compliance. It is almost criminal that we demand our police to enforce the law while simultaneously smearing them when they do exactly that.
AntiCitizenX 2 months ago
@AntiCitizenX No smearing, just shocked and embarrassed that this is all over the damned news making Tulsa look like 1960s Russia or Tehran or other equally messed up place to the rest of the damned world! I didn't give a tinker's damn about these occupy people until I saw the video of passive,seated Americans having their heads held while having a chemical agent squirted up their noses.Nobody in Tulsa wants this, nobody voted for this kind of crap, how in the hell did this become commonplace?
FromanMD 2 months ago
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FromanMD 2 months ago
Do you have a better way of forcing the removal and arrest and an uncooperative suspect? I see a lot of bashing on the cops without any regard for the fact that they have a judicial obligation to uphold the law. So please explain to me the proper way to bravely deal with someone who resists arrest.
AntiCitizenX 2 months ago
@AntiCitizenX Suspect? Suspected of what? Freedom of Assembly? Better just kill those scary seated protesters before they start exercising other constitutional rights,eh?
FromanMD 2 months ago
@FromanMD
Sorry, but you do not have the constitutional right to resist arrest. You do not have the constitutional right to disobey the lawful orders of a police officer. You do not have the constitutional right to violate curfews. You do not have the constitutional right to comfortable handling when you violate the law. You do not have the constitutional right to second chances after failure to abide by basic civics.
AntiCitizenX 2 months ago
@AntiCitizenX An order is not "lawful" when it violates the constitutional rights of the citizens they are supposed to SERVE. This nation is dead if the baloney that comes out of some fascist cog's mouth trumps the US Constitution which doesn't say fuckall about permits of curfews or any other GD made up fascist crap.
FromanMD 2 months ago
@FromanMD
"An order is not "lawful" when it violates the constitutional rights of the citizens they are supposed to SERVE"
Even if the curfew law is unconstitutional, resisting arrest is still against the law. Sorry, but them's the breaks. It is not for the officers to decide which laws to enforce. That is for courts. If you don't like it, fight it in court of use the 2nd amendment to defend yourself. But ignoring basic civics does not help anything.
AntiCitizenX 2 months ago
@AntiCitizenX You don't get it, there is a hierarchy to laws and certain laws trump other laws. The USC/BOR trumps all other laws. The cops became "redcoats" the day they did this and that means that someone from the federal government needs to come and arrest them.
FromanMD 2 months ago
@FromanMD
It does not matter if an officer searches your vehicle without a warrant, confiscates your wallet, or arrests you outright. You are legally required to comply. Restitution is gained in your trial, wherein any evidence found without cause is thrown out. You then file legal punitive charges against the offending officer through your local ACLU.
If you honestly think you're living under fascism, why don't you just buy some guns, get your friends together, and rebel?
AntiCitizenX 2 months ago
@AntiCitizenX Do you know any Oklahoma Common Law? I'll bet you are an LEO aren't you? Time for you to brush up on the difference between Civil Policy(not ratified by reps) and actual the LAW.Oklahoma Common Law explicitly states that a citizen has the right to RESIST UNLAWFUL ARREST by any means necessary up to and including DEADLY FORCE. I know that's a hard pill to swallow but it's been the law since statehood and no rep will commit political suicide by overturning it. Harsh stuff isn't it?
FromanMD 2 months ago
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FromanMD 2 months ago
@FromanMD
Unlawful arrest is an extremely difficult thing to prove. The officer pretty much has to be attacking you without any provocation whatsoever. I also fail to see how the pepper spray in this incident qualifies as unlawful. The protesters were also in violation of the law. Keith himself said so. Officers are legally granted one level of force above the suspects. So do you want them to uphold the law or not? Do you want cops to pick and choose which laws they like?
AntiCitizenX 2 months ago
@AntiCitizenX Like I said previously, there is a hierarchy of laws and some laws trump others and that is what you don't seem to get. One level of force above immobile seated "suspects" would have been harsh language and gently picking them up and carrying them to a paddy wagon for a ride downtown. Using painful compliance techniques on people exercising their right to freely assembly, speech, redress grievances is the kind or crap they do in North Korea or Iran. Where is our moral High Ground?
FromanMD 2 months ago
@FromanMD
If you think a little pepper spray qualifies as brutality, then by all means, please explain to me how you would remove unlawful trespassers who physically refuse to cooperate. What do you do when they link arms and prevent you from dragging them off nicely one at a time? Just because the resistance is nonviolent does not mean a legal arrest is being resisted.
Nah, forget all that pesky civics. All cops are just fascist pigs working for da man.
AntiCitizenX 2 months ago
@AntiCitizenX It's a leap forward in acceptable force continuum.Passive, immobile people should not have pain/compliance techniques used on them. They should be bodily picked up and carried off site or if you insist on Tulsa Civil Code trumping the USC/BOR a paddy wagon and haul them away.Look,I am a clean cut,God fearing,tax payer and I think these people are pretty weird but I do know the law and I know these people have certain rights and should expect decent treatment from civil servants.
FromanMD 2 months ago
@FromanMD
"Passive, immobile people should not have pain/compliance techniques used on them."
Except they are technically not passive. Linking arms together prevents individuals from being carried away. It is an active form of resistance because no single person can be moved without having to haul away the entire group. They do this deliberately because they know it frustrates the officers' efforts to make a simple arrest. Pain techniques are designed to get them to let go of the group.
AntiCitizenX 2 months ago
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FromanMD 2 months ago
@AntiCitizenX So much for "AntiCitizen." How do you like that authoritarian dick up your ass, motherfucker?
ObsidianTeen 2 months ago
@FromanMD You said you pay your taxes....Let me ask you, do you own the place were you squat, and is that place in the city limits of Tulsa or own a peice of land in the Tulsa city limits? If the answer is no, then you dont pay any of the Officers salaries. You better hope there arent Officers on here that know how you are, cause I can tell ya, if they do, you better move out of town. I'm a Police Officer and I have run across several of you folks. You a sad excuse for sperm. Antiamerican.
jholt4021 1 month ago
@jholt4021 Use that badge to harass people who disagree with you on the internet often?
FromanMD 1 month ago
@jholt4021 You're the one who wants to get a case of the redass because some kids want to exercise their constitutional right to free speech. This country was founded by political protesters who wanted to send heavy handed goons packing back to England. Who's Anti-American? As for you and your friends wanting to use your police powers to silence your critics that happens to be a Federal Offense,but more importantly a million dollar payday for anyone with a good civil attorney. So, be my guest :D
FromanMD 1 month ago
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FromanMD 1 month ago
@jholt4021 you're an asshole, and you don't deserve to call yourself a cop. YOU are Anti-American. You work for US, and we don't need YOU. You do know that part of the utility bills we pay, on top of other taxes, goes toward your salary, right? How uneducated you are. Just another dumb ass with delusions of grandeur who wanted a quick ladder to a power trip. You're not a cop. You're a Thug in a Uniform.
typoking 1 week ago
@itrich50 Comments like "STFU Olbermann...why were you canned from MSNBC??? DOH!" are not exposing anything but your ignorance since Olbermann was not canned. The way you begin with "STFU" is something I would expect from a small child.
OneActivist 2 months ago
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@OneActivist uh huh...let me remind you of what you said there, professor: "Olberman left MSNBC because he refused to follow same the corporate rules that OWS rebels against". Exactly where did you learn grammar? Call me a troll if you must, but if you are going to sit on your lofty intellectual throne and slam me for being childish the least you could do is learn to put the ords together in the right order.
ltrich50 2 months ago
Itrich. Olberman left MSNBC because he refused to follow same the corporate rules that OWS rebels against. As for web sites deleting childish attacks,it's because they have more productive things to do than argue with you.
OneActivist 3 months ago 3
@OneActivist If you call exposing the hypocrisy of the movement arguing, I guess so. I mean, I have the right to free speech too. I just don't throw it in peoples faces like you do. I just want my voice heard in support of the side that has the rule of law. What is also hypocritical about this BS is the fact that the ordinance these people were arrested by went unnoticed until these people decided to start singing koombayah.
ltrich50 2 months ago
@ltrich50 THE ONLY HYPOCRITE I SEE IS YOU. WHATS IT LIKE TO BE A PINKO-COMMIE TRAITOR? OR ARE YOU ANOTHER PAID SHILL?
61TUNER 2 months ago
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@61TUNER, you wouldn't know a hypocrite if it jumped up and bit you on your ass. If you support these guys...and it's your privledge to do so...know that the idiots you hold out as champions of the right of free speech are very likely deleting all dissenting opinions from the various websites and social networking, invalidating the argument that they are being victimized and abused by the police. In short, you are supporting hypocrites. You're welcome.
ltrich50 2 months ago
Keith, how come these protesters block dissenting opinions from their facebook pages if they are championing their first amendment rights?
ltrich50 3 months ago
STFU Olbermann...why were you canned from MSNBC??? DOH!
ltrich50 3 months ago
The definition of resisting is too vauge! One man looked like he was already handcuffed. Pepper spray can be DEADLY and the Police know that! This looked like police burtality!
arlene12345ful 3 months ago 2
@arlene12345ful deadly? Do tell.
ltrich50 3 months ago
Sometimes laws are wrong or unjust, as I believe the one creating a curfew in a public park is. The lawmakers are people and people are frequently wrong. If we all accepted all laws laid down we would live in a colony of England.
OneActivist 3 months ago 4
wah wah wah...laws are there for a reason. they ask you to leave, you say no, you get pepper sprayed. its standard police protocol
bergaflickal 3 months ago
And just what is it you "go getters" want exactly??
Trashfished 3 months ago
Another great reason for concealed carry.
ouroborosrex 3 months ago
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ouroborosrex 3 months ago
This is a disgusting display of a cop, trying to be "cute". It might give him something to talk about after hours, but is in no way a reflection of protect and serve w/honor. The guy must have been cuffed. Why else would he not react to pepper spray, especially at very close range like that? If there really are "good cops" out there, (and, there are) where were they when this violation on a citizen took place? Did "they" only send the bad ones?
adebweb 3 months ago
That's Tulsa for ya...cops are assholes here, even when you're the victim!
mikchivious 3 months ago
@jholt4021 I totally agree with you. linking your arms together and refusing police orders "NOT resisting?" are you kidding me? They had it coming to them. They had plenty of warning. The police respectfully asked them to leave several times. By refusing police order your resisting. There not saying you can't protest. They just ask that you acknowledge the park curfew. That's it. and then after the curfew is over, they can return. What is so hard about that?
madisonmeek 3 months ago
@madisonmeek That still does not excuse the cops cowardly conduct.
lordkoos 3 months ago
EVERYONE THAT SHITS ON THE POLICE SHOULD LOOSE THE RIGHT TO CALL UPON THEM WHEN YOUR GETTING THE SHIT KICKED OUT OF YOU OR ROBBED OR ANY OTHER CRIMINAL ACT. FORCE WAS USED ONLY AFTER THEY REFUSED TO DEPART FROM THE PARK PEACEFULLY. YOU SPEAK OF THE LAW, BUT CLEARLY VIOLATE THE CURFEW THAT YOUR ELECTED MAYOR ORDERED
jholt4021 3 months ago
@jholt4021 Authoritarians come out of the closet.
lordkoos 3 months ago
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FromanMD 2 months ago
fuck the police!! fkn pigs
somejackball 3 months ago
"The universal rights of assembly and free speech must be protected, and the United States stands with all who seek to exercise those rights." -- President Barack Obama (speaking about actions in foreign lands)
ZekeBriarcliff 3 months ago
Find this fucking faggot cop and show him how tough he really is. This is why Police in America are looked at the wrong way, because of idiots like this. FUCK THE POLICE!
MuayThaiFan240 3 months ago
I hate to say it, but I finally have no choice but to admit. You have to be morally defective to want to be a cop.
what kind of lazy sick cop calmly leans down to pepper spray seated woman in the face? I await the lawsuits against Tulsa.
BECConsulting 3 months ago
Resisting arrest... get neutralized. Looks good to me.
tclampffer 3 months ago
This is SO reminiscent of the scenes in the movie Idiocracy, where the retard cops spray pvt. Joe Bauer (the star) in the face all the time, just because, duh, it's our default response...
logorrhea 3 months ago 6
Two wrongs never make a right. The protesters are violating either private property rights or local ordinances for occupying spaces illegallly, The police are using undue force to make a simple arrest. Both are wrong and charges should be filed and these matters handled judicially. That is what we do in a civalized country of law and order.
robertjhawk 3 months ago
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You are free to choose, but you are not free from the consequence of your choice. A universal paradox.
marycontrary 3 months ago
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marycontrary 3 months ago
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marycontrary 3 months ago
For anyone who isn't getting the message: Welcome to the Police State of America. Population: 1%
rwPov 3 months ago
THEY ARE NOT POLICE. THEY ARE TYRANTS. LEGAL CRIMINALS THAT NEED TO BE THROWN IN HELL.
kaizerlion 3 months ago
THE TULSA OKLAHOMA POLICE FALSELY ARRESTED ME AUGUST 21,2008 AND GOT AWAY WITH IT. THE COURTS ACTUALLY HELPED THEM GET AWAY WITH IT. I WAS THROWN IN JAIL FOR EIGHT DAYS THEY PUT CHARGES ON ME AND I WAS INTERROGATED FOR 8 MONTHS .THESE PEOPLE ARE THE KKK WORKING IN THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM OF TULSA.THEY ARE WICKED AND CRUEL RACIST. THE COURTS HELPED THEM GET AWAY WITH IT, SO WHATEVER HAPPENS TO THE TULSA POLICE NEEDS TO HAPPEN AND I HOPE JUSTICE IS SERVED.
kaizerlion 3 months ago
@kaizerlion No doubt about it! Just wait until their union contract is rescinded! Then they will do a complete 180- they are cops because they are room temperature IQ morons...
soapbxprod 3 months ago
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So disgusting police are behaving this way. Thank you for documenting this!!! Stand Strong Occupy Tulsa!!!!!!
jenniferrperry 3 months ago
So disgusting police are behaving this way. Thank you for documenting this!!! Stand Strong Occupy Tulsa!!!!!!!
jenniferrperry 3 months ago
we need shirts with our rights written on them at the time of protest... Once the mainstream catches on to this more people will get involved.. Problem is the average american find politics boring and only cares about celebrity gossip and doesn't know their own rights.. We may have to literally spell it out for people...
Gtrplyr1 3 months ago
it seems that even TULSA is waking up.... that is progress!!! Thank You Kieth Olberman.
DarthDrizzt 3 months ago
one day they will pay for all of this....
bassmasterginger 3 months ago 2
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Big bad coppers with pepper spray, and pepperball guns. Been down there a dozen times after curfew never a word said to me. But as soon as people with a specific grievance show up to make their collective voice heard the police show their true colors. They selectively enforce a curfew that is violated every night by passers by, by homeless people that sleep down there nearly every night which the Police selectively ignore.
DarthDrizzt 3 months ago
@weezoonline You own those parks? And you speak of committing crimes yourself to keep people out of 'your' parks? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite? And regarding your "better ways" - what specifically have you done so that we may eminate your better way?
rednbenji 3 months ago
These people have been so indoctrinated by the system that they can't even think for themselves, they have no morals. They could have carried that person out to a vehicle for transportation, but instead they decided to abuse power. This is very wrong, and no decent cop will act like this. Very sad to see this kind of action by the police.
Vaijykone 3 months ago 5
That guy was resisting arrest so much that you can't even tell... actions like these are inexcusable
Stiner39 3 months ago
@rwc656 ...certainly not by me. The man being sprayed was most DEFINITELY not resisting anything at the time of the spraying. This spraying caught on video at this specific time was a heinous, abusive misuse of power.
rednbenji 3 months ago 3
@rwc565 Please specifically explain to me how sitting down is resisting?? Please explain that. And you say he wasn't cuffed, how do you know? And how would it be even remotely possible to be sprayed in the face and not automatically bring your hands to a defensive posture? He was bound. The police had EVERY right to arrest these people probable cause of breaking their city laws. Any guilty or not guilty verdict would be determined in the COURTROOM not on the street and certainly ...
rednbenji 3 months ago
SPRAY THEM BACK! Protesters! ARM YOURSELVES WITH PEPPER SPRAY AND SPRAY THEM BACK!
soapbxprod 3 months ago
@soapbxprod It is going down the road, if this keeps up things will and should turn violent against this corporate cops who are slaves to the money masters. Makes me sick. Now we know why some of them are call pigs.
johnnycmajor 3 months ago
@soapbxprod
NO!! THis is exactly what PD is looking for. They're PROVOKING protesters so they fall in the trap of using violence ! Occupiers are showing, confirming, they're NOT a violent group. They're not aggressive, even when facing provocation : They were SITTING, ARMS LINKING..It's clearley seen in this video. To the PD I say : THERE'S NO HONOR IN HURTING UNARMED HUMAN BEINGS. This is called COWARDICE. You're dishonoring you uniforms !!
1961precious 3 months ago 2
@1961precious One of two things will happen- either the PD will side with the protesters- as in the Eastern Bloc in the late 1980s- or they will side with the Banks/corporations- as in the Ford Riots and the Bonus marches in the 1930s. Only time will tell...
soapbxprod 3 months ago
@soapbxprod
I agree. However, my point was that Occupiers should never be encouraged to retaliate , when provoked by violent mistreating by PD. That's a set up. A trap. (re. "spray them back"). Be blessed.
1961precious 3 months ago 3
@1961precious Can't disagree!
soapbxprod 3 months ago
Meanwhile someone gets murdered down the road and raped because there were no longer any police around the rest of the town.
mcgeeb1215 3 months ago
If you camp out on Black Friday, no issues.
mcgeeb1215 3 months ago
This will end up in court and I'm pretty sure the court will find that the use of pepper spray is incorrect in this situation. IMO its complete BS.
mcgeeb1215 3 months ago
The cops kids should be held down, cuffed, and pepper sprayed like that! Fuck them and anyone thinking this is ok.
meushubris 3 months ago 2
I hope the officers who were involved get demoted or fired! This is not only unprofessional, but violent. Every person in a position of authority should use their influence to hold these officers accountable. Ridiculous!
angieangieful 3 months ago 2
Sickening abuse of power by a paid servant of the people. Fucking cop should be unemployed tomorrow.
Notecrusher 3 months ago 3
Yo Love and Support from Occupy Philly...I hope ACLU jumps on that cop before the Marines get him.... Any one and I mean anyone who does not see this as an abuse of power has there head in they're ass...You don't even have to support the movement to see this. And then people wonder why there is so much HATE towards the cops..Really !? You wonder??? Cops in Philly like this every day... Cops do 1 THING They serve the 1 %....
jimmanningjr 3 months ago 3
Pepper Spray is Dangerous and one needs first aid to the Eyes immediately. Tulsa already has a pending lawsuit for Pepper Spraying a man jogging late at night in his boxer shorts and he was chased, pepper sprayed while hogtied and he died. His mom said she could hear her son who was on medication screaming. according to news reports. That case does not enclude all the lawsuits over the police corruption case that just ended. WOW.
arlene12345ful 3 months ago 5
What the F#$% That's just outrageous. Chemical agents should NEVER be used in this manner...EVER. They're meant to be used only if the officer is in some kind of imminent danger in order to disable an assailant. This was not only blatantly wrong but I should think actionable.
sunsetmauve 3 months ago 5
@sunsetmauve No..Pepper spray is the 2nd step on the use of force continuum. The first step is hands on, the protesters clearly tensed up and resisted being arrested. Therefore, pepper spray was correctly used.
rwc565 3 months ago
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its resisting for him to just sit there. Get up and get the hell out of my parks. There are better ways to bring down the 1% than just sitting around trashing where my kids play. I might have to go out and taze those hippies and hipsters myself
weezoonline 3 months ago
@weezoonline Thanks for the violence. It solves so much.
DangerDrVenture 3 months ago 2
@weezoonline - Nice trolling. Guess what? They're not only your parks, but also that of your fellow Americans. Please read up on United States history in between drag races. Oh, and tasers are for pussies.
liquidman666 3 months ago 2
good job everyone.f*#** tpd.thanks for bein a real american
chrisjdutton21 3 months ago
The first amendment HAS NO CURFEW!
CryPixie83 3 months ago 2
@CryPixie83 This, and no one but my mother gets to assign me a curfew. I'm not 14.
DangerDrVenture 3 months ago 2
I'd like to see a few pigs sprayed in the face with pepper spray.
rhonan 3 months ago 2
getting arrested for exercising the 1st amendment....lovely especially on public streets where no permits are needed. even more lovely. Good Job on protecting and serving shit you don't fucking know about 5-0
iSkate7104 3 months ago 4
@rserzy So do you believe that spraying a man in the face at close range who was restrained and on the ground was justified here because they didn't have a permit?
SemiSweetMakeup 3 months ago 4
@SemiSweetMakeup The question is how could they not expect this to happen without a permit? Everyone knows TPD does not play when it comes to people gathering in the parks past curfew.
marycontrary 3 months ago
@marycontrary
See early comment. They've applied to get a permit and, always, it has been DENIED to them !!
1961precious 3 months ago
YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT>>> WHY DID THE COP SPRAY A CUFFED MAN WHO WAS CLEARLY NOT RESISTING??? There was absolutely NO REASON for the officer to spray this man in this way. NONE.
rednbenji 3 months ago 45
@rednbenji You are 1000% correct, I was there and saw that cop spray him for absolutely no reason. He was cuffed not resisting and the Tulsa Police had complete control of him. The pepper spray was a sick sadistic abuse of police power and that office should lose his badge for the assult he commited against a NON VIOLENT PEACEFUL CITIZEN exercising his 1st Amendment Contitutional Right!!! Whether you agree with the 99% or not The Constution is the Supreme Law of the Land and should be upheld
xazper8ed 3 months ago 2
@rednbenji You are 1000% correct, I was there and saw that cop spray him for absolutely no reason. He was cuffed not resisting and the Tulsa Police had complete control of him. The pepper spray was a sick sadistic abuse of police power and that officer should lose his badge for the assult he commited against a NON VIOLENT PEACEFUL CITIZEN exercising his 1st Amendment Contitutional Right!!! Whether you agree with the 99% or not The Constution is the Supreme Law of the Land and should be upheld
xazper8ed 3 months ago 2
@rednbenji You are 1000% correct, I was there and saw that cop spray him for absolutely no reason. He was cuffed not resisting and the Tulsa Police had complete control of him. The pepper spray was a sick sadistic abuse of police power and that officer should lose his badge for the assult he commited against a NON VIOLENT PEACEFUL CITIZEN exercising his 1st Amendment Contitutional Right!!! Whether you agree with the 99% or not The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land and should be upheld
xazper8ed 3 months ago 3
@rednbenji he wasnt cuffed...he was however breaking the law and resisting.
rwc565 3 months ago
@rwc565 Breaking the law and resisting. Just like those radicals that broke into a private ship and stole chests of tea owned by a multinational corporation with ties to the most powerful politicians of the time. And then they dumped that tea into the harbor. Criminals.
Those "criminals" knew it would mean war to the "powers-that-be" and did it anyway. But I guess modern Americans should just be servile fools who whine on the interweb and "sit back and take it", while they're betrayed.
TheBillLumbergh 3 months ago 6
@TheBillLumbergh this doesnt apply since the laws they were under they had no representation for, they were ruled by a foreign nation we are not. not to mention it was about too many taxes being levied
bergaflickal 3 months ago
@rednbenji And it is not supposed to be used closer that about 5 feet away. This is heavy duty stuff,like what they use for bear repellent. It can cause chemical burns that require medical treatment. Using it this way is basically torture/punishment. Violence -- the first resort of the incompetent.
lordkoos 3 months ago
The government saying a permit is required does not mean it is so. They say the same thing about firearms. The Constitution says something else.
snuchia 3 months ago 3
So to everyone who is focusing on the arrests instead of the actual brutality.....does breaking the law mean that you have no rights? If you are caught stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family does that mean it's okay for people to rape you? Just because the protesters broke the law, does not mean they deserve to be spraying at close range with pepper spray while cuffed and not resisting WHEN HE WAS sprayed. You can't go all willy nilly on someone just because you don't agree with them.
rednbenji 3 months ago 4
@rednbenji I watched the live stream from justin.tv this night, You are right it does not justify pepperspraying someone that was not resisting but simply sitting there. I am fully ashamed to live in tulsa oklahoma this day after the cops did such a thing. There's plenty of more crime that is going on that should have been taken care of and not wasting tax dollars on a simple protest.
nekodemon145 3 months ago 2
I KNOW my outrage has grown apace when I actually question my Fox news and find myself actually AGREEING with Keith Olberman. Lol!
Gladiamdammit 3 months ago 4
A poor expenditure of city funds and an over-response of police manpower and uncalled-for violence that invites expensive lawsuits. Heard reports that outside private firms were brought in at extra expense for this activity. Not all of the police were from Tulsa.
splaaaack 3 months ago 5
TPD is a stickler on park curfews. They arrest anyone refusing to leave past curfew...anyone know the outcome post pepper spray?
marycontrary 3 months ago
@marycontrary I didn't even know they had a curfew in that little park and was told they decided to enforce it at that time. I see homeless people sleeping there all the time and they haven't been touched.
justmo410 3 months ago
@justmo410 yep, curfew- 11pm-5am.
marycontrary 3 months ago
knowing this it makes my town that i live in look bad tulsa pd is stupid
misschelleluvstiff 3 months ago
Restrain Mayor Dewey Bartlett!
OneActivist 3 months ago 15
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kopellhinex 3 months ago
It doesn't matter whether or not they were initially breaking the "law" (which I will point out was passed by city council against constitutional rights). The permit or lack of permit is not the issue or the argument. And even if we take the constitution out of the argument (like so many do today)......the man was cuffed, and sitting and was not in a state of resistance. There was absolutely no logical reason for the officer to spray the man other than the officer's own malice. Brutality.
rednbenji 3 months ago
WTF. . . Let's make this viral!
eilier 3 months ago
The Constitution has no curfew!
billyerds 3 months ago
They should be ashamed of themselves. You get a badge, gun and uniform. VOILA - you are made a King to do what ever you like! Peaceful protests - lead to man's face being held while getting pepper sprayed. Shameless act!!! Are there no other crimes going on that need more attention?
chucklieboy001 3 months ago
Yes, there is a permit required. However, that is almost never enforced. There was a nearby park full of sleeping homeless (the reason for the curfew in the first place) that the cops left totally alone, just like they do every night. This was *not* about curfew. That was just the excuse.
MuleSkinner67 3 months ago 3
@MuleSkinner67 so why didn't OT have the permit? How stupid are they to not comply with the law, unless this is a plea for attention?
maggiepower 3 months ago
@maggiepower Why weren't the other folks in the park that were violating curfew without a permit arrested or sprayed?
rednbenji 3 months ago
@maggiepower several things I want to clear up, I was the big guy (the second one sprayed) we have applied several times for a permit and it has been denied every time. also the permit is $100 a day plus 1 1/2 million in liability insurance if they approve it, we have been trying to go the legal route from the beginning but we keep getting stonewalled and given the run around
cosmo18 3 months ago 11
@cosmo18 Thats because your a bunch of broke ass, fucking morons. Go occupy your mommies basement. idiots.
Trashfished 3 months ago
@Trashfished you really should not assume things, most of us in occupy tulsa have 1-3 jobs and a few are students getting an education to get good paying jobs and if we were morons we wouldn't care or be educated enough to think for ourselves and stand up for our rights and we would go on the internet and troll anonymously like yourself
cosmo18 3 months ago
"Congress shall make no law respecting...the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Its the first amendment...and it states that laws like those for insurance and permits that force us to pay for our right to free speech are unconstitutional. In this country should only those with money be able to assemble and petition for change? They also used to have laws making black people and women second class citizens.
tigerfriend2000 3 months ago
And here are some facts behind this story. They refused to get a permit / insurance. They were told they could not set up tents in the park. They were told to leave the park at 11:00 PM all the way through 2:00 AM. The police cleared the park at 2:00 AM. 10 people went back into the park and refused to follow police instruction.
My opinion: What hopes do they have for finding a real job when trespass, loitering and resisting arrest come up on their background check? Bad choice on them.
rserzy 3 months ago
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tonytricks 3 months ago
@tonytricks Ha, Ha, Ha there is a permit required. There is insurance required. The Baptist came here to protest a solders funeral and they pulled a permit. You are a fool to think otherwise.
rserzy 3 months ago
Wow, really...bmwcloud37?? It's a good thing you made your statement because with a screen name like that, I wasn't sure what side of the fence you were on.
Shdowalker 3 months ago
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Too bad that clause in the constitution goes on to say as long as the assembly is LAWFUL. I thought that Keith would not show it, and imagine my surprise when he didn't include that part! Obey the law, and then you will be WORTHY of your rights. It's not that hard, is it? You can blame the police all you want but the protestors must understand if they want to get anywhere they must fully obey the laws of curfew rather than ignoring it. People will better connect with them. This just angers me.
bmwcloud37 3 months ago
@bmwcloud37 "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." LAWFUL does not appear in the 1st amendment.
snuchia 3 months ago 3
This is a disgusting use of power. I do not understand how anyone can support the police in this situation.
montiesmom 3 months ago
Exactly! Protestors were doing it peacefully! Resistance? really? They were in a frigging prone postion. They broke their promise for NOT pepper spraying.
nekodemon145 3 months ago
@nekodemon145, without causing a huge debate here, I really want to understand your position, You stated that "They broke their promise for NOT pepper spraying". I can't find where that promise was ever made. I would like for you to elaborate on that a little if you may. The force continuum in Tulsa is pepper spray comes before compliance holds because compliance holds can harm arms, joints and such.
rserzy 3 months ago
@nekodemon145 Second question, again to understand your position, when does resisting the police in any fashion make it right? If I resist the police peacefully or not I am still placed under arrest for whatever I am doing outside of the law. If I am polite during my arrest and say yes sir, no sir but cling to something that prevents them from taking me to jail there are procedures they follow right?
rserzy 3 months ago