How to Recover, after DI: momentum cancelling, etc.

[dablackgoku13]

Very good tutorial. I need some refreshment on momentum canceling and this did the trick.

[Aflay1]

yay not a single troll <3.

loved the video as well.

[MerryMichaelmas]

Hopefully I won't be so n00by in the future.

[1337myles]

What a helpful video. Thank you. :)

[Calebyte]

1. Amazing video!

2. What's the name of the first song?

[infzy]

@Calebyte 1. thanx!

2. It's "Social Silence", by Trash80. You can download all his stuff for free at his website or from 8bitpeoples (.com).

[WikisBulbapedia]

This video has been put on StrategyWiki

[shadowds5]

thanks alot i finaly get DI xD

[TheShark967]

Wow thanks this was really good! =D

[JarieSuicune]

Free points just for the name "Big O". It's show time!

Anyway, useful! Though, I have to point out the obvious: The SAME test on a smaller field (Such as seems the standard for Tourneys) will be considerably less effective, due to closer blast lines. On those fields, you need to focus more on just not TAKING the damage than relying on survival tricks like this. Of course, always useful, as some chars. can do this same test and survive to an extent on smaller fields!

Just commenting. ^_^

DUON!

[qazqazdabest]

@JarieSuicune Yeh but getting hit is inevitable in smash.  This is useful on all levels of play.

[JarieSuicune]

No no, it's not "inevitable", just REALLY REALLY unlikely that you'll successfully avoid ALL damage (It IS possible).

(I WOULD find it VERY enjoyable to see a person's Brawl records for a name that is used in many brawls that has a "Total Damage Received: 000" and then face that gamer.)

I was merely pointing out that the SAME situation of that test (sans the field itself) becomes less and less useful on smaller fields, as the blast lines are closer than on the test field they used.

[qazqazdabest]

@JarieSuicune It's just as useful on smaller fields if not MORE useful. There's a smaller margin of error and anything less than perfect DI will get you killed. Of course in the SAME situation it isn't useful but this is a broad guide meant for all situations. You're just pointing out that the sun is bright! Of course the main objective isn't to get hit but iyou will and you need to know how to deal with it.

[JarieSuicune]

... Well, I wasn't trying to say it's NOT useful.

All I know is that I usually last on virtually any field up to/around 150-250% damage before I'm KO'd, using dominantly Samus/-Z-Suit and Sonic.

I love me Zero Laser! ^_^

[qazqazdabest]

@JarieSuicune Impressive stuff! Although personally Samus and Sonic are one of my worst characters and I main random (well I can play 15 characters to a good level.)

[JarieSuicune]

Thank you! Probably should avoid turning this into a character competition, though. ^_^

Hope to see you around!

[UrameshiGU]

Very helpful vid ^^ Definitely gonna be mindful of these DI techniques from now on

[millionairejh]

wow very impressive vid. i love how u set up this testing stage. very well done. its like a science fair project lol.

[MysteryTigerTeen]

So what your saying is to aerial 1st, then tap down on the control stick? I'm a Marth player, so advice on DI and momentum cancelling with him would help :)

[Doron101]

Ok so tapping down on the Control Stick doesn't make you fall any faster or are you just betters off just holding it?

[infzy]

For a momentum-cancelling fastfall effect: you need to tap down on the control stick *after* you've started an aerial, during hitstun. If you hold it or tap down too early, it will have no effect.

[Doron101]

Right so what I'm saying is do I do the aerial first and which one am I better off doing tapping it or holding it after the aerial.

[bestfirend123]

@Doron101 when u use a air attack to fast fall hold the c stick down like how u would if u were running

[HedgehogJohnny]

is this how to di?

[Mitrofang]

Thanks =D I'll try with Diddy ^^

[hell2uall]

"If you want to Dair with the C-stick, do NOT hold down on the control-stick!"

So do I do a Dair first, then fast fall?

[hell2uall]

Or is it saying do not use the C-Stick for a Dair if you want to Dair?

[infzy]

So it's optimal to hit Down and Attack at exactly the same frame -- this is what the C-stick does, so it's fine.... so long as you were NOT holding down on the control stick, in which case it thinks you JUST wanted to Dair without fastfall.

So either JUST use the C-stick (and don't hit it too early in hitstun cuz it won't work), or use the control stick to input Dair and fastfall at the same time, or Dair then quickly reset the control stick to neutral and tap Down again to fastfall.

HTH!

[CGCGrayfox]

He is. Do yoru aerial then fast fall.

[infzy]

oh geez, youtube somehow ate my first comment from a week ago :S

You can fastfall as soon as you *start* the aerial. Like, you can start to fastfall on exactly the same frame you start the aerial.

But you have to be a bit more careful; if your control stick (or c-stick) was in the "down" posiiton a frame before you start the aerial, then it won't have registered a "tap down" input while the aerial was happening, so it won't fastfall. If that makes sense...

[fire0emblem0pro]

thanks for the great video and does anyone know the best way to recover with ike, falco and snake? i can only get about 150% max before i get ko'd and their heavy characters.

[FailProofFrank]

i dont think id call Falco a heavy character...and as for ike, his recovery isnt that great to properly recover...

Plus once you get to 150% on most characters, theres not a whole lot you can do to keep from being ko'd...

[SquilliamtheCoolest]

interesting tutorial! Good job with it.

[infzy]

huh? did you watch the whole vid?

the point is that Fox's shine DOESN'T help; in fact it pushes you *further* away from the stage.

Instead, Fox should fastfall an aerial to escape hitstun, then if possible/necessary jump towards the stage.

[dontaskYidid]

Great tutorial. . .

. . .but what do you do for a wii remote + nunchuck?

[megasin1]

the exact same moves....

...the control scheme he talks about doesn't change he uses the terms "airdodge" as opposed to "press z (d-right)" etc...

[thenotsoswede]

lol i want the mp3 to Electric Skychurch Endless Horizon (I Love Bob Mix)

[xAfterDawnx]

IIRC when you airdodge, throw an item, tether, or do an aerial in the second half of the hitstun, you're not actually cancelling you're momentum; you're just cancelling your hitstun, which allows you from there to cancel your momentum through other methods such as jumping.

[Avalanchian]

Superb tutorial that has made me really think about my recovery technique. If only all brawl tutorials were this helpful, user friendly and thought provoking...

[infzy]

wow thanks ^_^

[Twilightlink421]

Amazing tutorial and demonstrations ^^

[uchihaobito13]

Man, that was AMAZING! It was really helpful, and so clearly stated! You must be really good at Brawl or Physics! (or both lol)

[blouistu101]

Hi infzy!!! Would you mind doing some reasearch for me? I just stopped using the tap jump and realized that it's much easier to momentum cancel then with it on. Is this possible?????? ~blouistu101

[infzy]

Hmmmmm...... I'm not sure. What do you mean by "easier"? and what character are you using? Since you can't jump until you've escaped hitstun, I doubt the Jump input would interfere with the aerial, unless there's a buffering problem (which would be interesting). How else would tap-jump come into effect?

[blouistu101]

Well, i mean that when i used the tap jump the momentum cancel was not as fast as it was as the button jump. And Captain falco and pit were used to find this...Thanks a bunch :)

[infzy]

Oh, I see. I'll have to test it out later (tomorrow maybe).

You're sure you escaped hitstun with an aerial before you're trying to jump?

I think Pit might benefit subtly from doing a jump+glide.

[hizzlum]

why no control stick dwon w/ a cstick dair? it causes fastfalling and momentum reduction, doesnt it? That how i live to 180% all the time with DDD

[infzy]

My understanding (could be wrong): The fastfall happens from a "tap down" input. If you're holding Down, the c-stick down only gives "attack" input, not a control-stick tap + attack. So you won't have actually input a fastfall.

[uncommonpolitics]

Wow didn't know my recovery was so wrong thanks!

[ERVMX]

Excelent tutorial. 5 stars.

[DrLight33]

yeah, and remember if they nock u horisontally to the righ side, what u first have to use is TDI up and SmashDI to the left side, then momentun canseling.

PD: sorry for my bad english. :P

[ssbmking15]

so if they knock my dk up i should hold down and Bair and if hey knock him off to the side i should hold down and Bair and then up special

[infzy]

Yeop, that's often correct. But sometimes other options are better.

You can survive some horizontal KOs using fastfall Bair > Jump towards the stage. This obviously leaves you much less vulernable than using up-B, but is less effective at cancelling your horizontal momentum. It also gives you an enormous height boost, so it's dangerous if you're near the stage ceiling (ie. a corner).

Also, using up-B can help survive some *vertical* KOs as well.

[ssbmking15]

i tried it out already. it's best if i don't hold down with DK when being knocked to the side only when going up i hold down

[blouistu101]

Excuse Me For Asking but,  How Do You Search Smash Boards. Every Time I Put In Key Words I Get The Same Posts And Threads!?

[infzy]

Oh that used to confuse me too.... when you hit the Search dropdown button at the top of the page, there's an option button you need to put to "Show Posts" instead of the default "Show Threads".

For anything more complicated, use the Advanced Search page, it's much more useful. Hope that helps...

[garquille]

Really good demonstration.

[rokninja]

Awesome video, very informative. Looks like I have something new to practice.

I've been trying to learn to DI properly for a long time,  but haven't had it broken down like that yet, along with a video no less! :p

[mikessandikess]

Sweet video! Love the music.

[Fogel82]

Awesome video, I thought I was pretty good at DI but I didn't know a lot of this stuff existed in Brawl. Well done!

[japanda297]

so say i was using marth and i was hit horizontally, do all aerials work equally effective in slowing me down? For instance, would Fair work better than a Dair? sorry if this was addressed, im just learning how to do this and im kinda confused. great video by the way.

[infzy]

This stuff's confusing, np for asking a question.

The aerial itself doesn't slow you down, technically (except for fastfalling, vertically); it just lets you escape hitstun early so that you can regain your aerial momentum, and use jumps/specials to help recover.

It matters which aerial you use; because you want to use the aerial which ends the soonest, so that these other options become available to you asap.

I hope that makes sense! but let me know if it's not clear.

[japanda297]

oh ok so the aerial just allows you to get out of the hitstun faster right? so the shorter the aerial, the quicker you can get out. i think i get it. This will help a ton. thank you for the help. Amazingly helpful video too.

[infzy]

Yep, you got it.

Thanx!

[blouistu101]

Whats a Z-air or a teather?

[meher3123]

its when you use a move like shieks side b near a ledge to grab it or using z with GC controller with link to use his clawshot

[metroid1117]

To clarify what meher3123 said:

A tether is any move that will automatically grab onto the edge and pull the user onto it (given that someone isn't already on there). There are 3 up+B tethers (Olimar, Ivysaur, ZSS), 1 side+B tether (Sheik), and 4 Z tethers (Link, T. Link, Samus, and Lucas). The 4 Z tethers are known as ZAirs. All ZAirs are tethers, but not all tethers are ZAirs; meher doesn't make that key distinction.

[infzy]

Oh right, so I guess the vid should just say Z-air, rather than Zair/tether. Also, you forgot Ice Climbers' up-B is a tether. :)

[metroid1117]

Ooops... completely missed that one >.>.

[fMiguel58]

zss's side b is a tether as well =]

[metroid1117]

Are you sure? I've looked all over Smashboards, including Snakeee's guide on how not to get gimped as ZSS, and I've never seen it mentioned as a tether recovery.

[fMiguel58]

yea

i just tried it. go check it out =]

[metroid1117]

Oh wow... I was able to play today and tried it out; it is indeed a tether. I learned something new about Brawl today, thanks :).

[redghost16]

Hilarious. As Sonic, I always faired to jump.

Gonna start fair -> side-b/down-b from here on out.

[XSilvenX]

Love the song at the end, nice vid guy.

[Fizzi63]

Infzy this video is amazing. I already knew most of this stuff because I had followed the thread and even contributed a bit. Seeing it however, is awesome. As far as all characters having faster aerials than airdodges, I don't believe this to be true with snake. I might make a custom stage as you did to test it. 5 stars, Favorited, great video.

[infzy]

Thanks for the praises! I think you prolly right about Snake, I'll update that in the beside-the-video text... Does anyone have his frame data?

[Fizzi63]

I don't believe anyone released frame data for snake yet. The way I tested it was a short hopped off a ledge, did an aerial, and jumped. I looked at how low snake went before jumping, obviously the lower he gets, the worse the aerial. I concluded that his air dodge was faster than all his aerials. I then did the test like you did. With platforms to mark location, and I'm about 95% sure air dodge works best. (Dair works best for vertical)

[myRoboticClaw]

I accidently rated it a one. T.T

Nice video.

[KamuiRyu88]

Don't warry I've rated it 5/5

=)

[T3hC4r4v4n]

thx for uploading