Confessions of a Chicago Red Light Ticketing Camera

[pcgamer26]

I have an idea... Burn Chicago to the ground, AGAIN!!!

[idicula1979]

I would love a deffendant to bring up a charge against the traffic light camaras. Because not only are they annoying they are unconstitutional, because the constitution guarantees the right of the accused to confront his accuser. So just how do you confront a traffic light camara?

[MrBFagel]

Cameras an d the people who run them don't care about traffic safety unless it has a dollar $ign attached.

[JstaGoodoBoy01]

So far because of these fucking cameras ive rear ended a guy because he slamed on his breaks on yellow and paid $400, all for making right turns. Once at 2 a.m. with NO traffic and because i didnt come to a complete stop, though i slowed down to less than 5mph, looked and turned. FUCKING BS!

[MystikWizard]

I am clicking my stopwatch and am getting 3 seconds for pretty much most of these lights. Not sure when you are starting the clock in comparison to the light changing. I do think 3 seconds is extremely short, and yes it is a way to make money. However, 3 seconds is within federal regulation and Chicago is simply going to take advantage of it, as they have every right to do.

[MrBFagel]

@MystikWizard A stop watch won't cut it because of the user's reaction time. Video is the preferred medium because its accurate and repeatable over and over again. Admissible as court evidence to rebut the presumption the city's video is correct, which many times it isn't.

[smcfall2]

well you got 1/3 of the story correct....the other 1/3 ? - when approaching an intersection ---slow the %*&* down .....then there is the last 1/3....these lights are timed for 3,500 lbs vehicles not 80,000 lbs ones....people - i do not want to run over you (especial that child/passenger in the vehicle beside you)....please change your driving habits.....please...i don't want to be a murderer....please

[MrBFagel]

@smcfall2 is that what the law says???

[SRVjediknight]

the timer goes up until like 5-6 seconds then it pushes it down to like 2.56 ????

[1danyol1]

@SRVjediknight it wasn't measuring seconds the first time, it was measuring frames, like he explained in the video. Try timing it yourself, it's 2 and a half seconds.

[MrBFagel]

@SRVjediknight The software was counting video frames which was then converted to seconds. A remake of the video will use a direct reading stop watch. I have to work out a couple of details.

[dkoribag1]

Fuck people every fucking day there is some other bull shit. God damn shoot those fucking lights out and start revolution. Lets take this country back and lynch up all lobyist and poloticians right infront of the white house as a messege to the fucking people who think they can repress us. And lynch the camera company and all its employees for being pussys.

[ExtraTerrestrials]

lol funny

[punanibuzzed]

im glad big brother is keeping an eye on us and keeping us safe

[Gandyware]

One dislike is the mayor of Chicago

[KnightTemplari]

Finally, put timers on intersections to let motorist how long that light will change. That has more an effect than surprise red lights...but wait, it's not compliance they are seeking is money from the motorists. And if you really want to make it effective, how about pop up stop sticks if city officials are so concerned with compliance. That would stop car chases in the city real quick. But that's too effective and no money in the city kitty.

[KnightTemplari]

Like the city officials put out that traffic accidents/deaths are down....ok, well, has anyone considered that gas is too high and there are less cars on the road or perhaps, people can't afford to pay tickets anymore so compliance with traffic law lessens their chances of this?NO. With revenue from cameras, maybe those officials get a stipend for their cars, and/or more fringe benefits for themselves.Sit in a city council and hear them well.

[KnightTemplari]

These cameras are only to make revenue..it is just that simple. Saving lives is a delusional belief. Did anyone see the cameras stopped a car from going thru an intersection? NO, they allow you to continue and if you crash, you crash..it's been happening for several decades. People violate the law even when they see the police.

[RobRoyRed42]

The most important part of this video begins at 3:21. It is the 800 lb gorilla in the room. And In California it can set you back more than $400.

[RobRoyRed42]

In England, people drape a tire filled with diesel over these, light the diesel and cook the electronics to the tune of around 400 cameras a year. In the US, many of them are on relatively slim aluminum poles. A crimp at the bottom with an axe or maul and a tug from the top with a rope, and I'll bet they'd come down pretty easy. It hasn't come to that yet (I don't think). But some people who have been nailed by these things are getting pretty hot.

So far I'm able to spot em and I'm clean. ;-)

[MrBFagel]

What about our Constitutional Rights being usurped???

[Samshile]

What do you expect when you keep putting Liberals in office that are mono-focused on pilfing the middle class for thier hard earned money. They have 100 ways to nickle asnd dime the middle class. Liberals picking your pocket 100 dollars at a time!

[JediWitness]

Nice video. This whole thing is such a Sham!! They're expecting you to have the freaking timing and control of an android or machine and you car to respond instantly, like something in a video game and ticketing you based on things down to the Milliseconds and could care less if you had NO intent to run a red light or anything. Courts are Totally out of touch with reality and all LAW is a sham and a scam. Learn about the UCC1-308 to help combat this BS.

[MrBFagel]

You didn't mention what city or state this occurred, but most areas outside CA this is considered a civil violation and doesn't go on your driving record. Can you respond with more detail? We just beat on in North Chicago yesterday after five times in court!

[CaptainCheq]

One of these tickets ruined my chances at getting a municipality job in my city.  I went on a yellow and was in the intersection on the Red and got the ticket while turning left. Because a Red light ticket implies i will be a bad driver in all occasions.

[TheLiarhunter]

I agree if the video used is raw and doesn't use video compression, and the idea that NTSC IS 2.97 frames per second . The common mistake is that it's 3 frames per second with makes a lot of difference since we are talking about hundredths of a second.

[MrBFagel]

As I said before the Tribune video proves they are not familiar with accurately timing video scenes. If you want to talk about this my office number is 847 883 8990.

[MrBFagel]

The difference in timing happens when traffic engineers include a lamp's warm up time as part of the signal's "steadyy time" which is incorrect. The MUTCD describes "steady yellow phase". The ramp up and ramp down time coupled with inductive loop "lead and lag adjustments" also contribute to signal timing.discrepencies. The law and drivers recognize the steady visible light, not what the cabinet timer states.

[RobRoyRed42]

@MrBFagel ""The difference in timing happens when traffic engineers include a lamp's warm up time as part of the signal's "steadyy time" which is incorrect. ""

And LED lights have no "warm up time".

[MrBFagel]

I didn't state I could count the amber time more accurately than the cabinet timer. My point is no matter what the cabinet timer is set at it runs off the 60 Hertz power grid which is its timing reference, just like clocks and TVs. Video cameras are synced to 60 Hertz power grid as well. The video processor software used to review the video of the traffic signal phase is also synced to the same 60 Hertz power grid. The Sony video studio software allows repeatable frame by frame review views.

[TheLiarhunter]

So then what makes you qualified to count the amber time more accurately than the timer within the cabinet ?

[MrBFagel]

The reliance on the timer inside the box seems to make sense and it provides something to point at with an air of authority for the media, but, it’s the steady visible traffic signal light which drivers and the IL Vehicle Code recognize.

[MrBFagel]

CDOT does not employ a practice to time traffic signals after they are installed using visually observation techniques.

As to the controller conflict monitor, I have asked CDOT through a Freedom of Information Act request if there has ever been one occurrence of a conflict monitor being tripped at any traffic signal with or without photo enforcement. The answer was no, no documentation to substantiate the allegation these conflict monitors are serving their intended purpose.

[MrBFagel]

A hint is the power grid frequency in the United States and divide by two because of the video raster scan rate. Then divide one second by the answer and you will find out how long the; 01 measurement really is. Many people make this mistake, they assume, just the way the Tribune did, but it’s flat out wrong. CDOT has no process to measure the actual traffic signal light phase output other than to rely on the timer in the control cabinet and that is where the discrepancies start.

[MrBFagel]

But why should that make any difference? When measuring time in hundredths of a second it does make a $100 difference. Couple this factor with the traffic signal illumination ramp-up/ramp-down times, inductive loop lead and lag time aspects, wiring inductance, reactance, resistance and other influences. The first number to the left of the decimal point in the Tribune timer does count seconds. Then ask yourself “How many video frames are there in a one second video clip?” on the NTSC standard.

[MrBFagel]

Response 1-The word "Conspiracy" was not used in the video

The Tribune video purports to have a stop watch timer in the lower screen as "authentication". There is a semicolon in the numeric readout. This is not a second counter, but is a video frame counter as shown in the South Archer Avenue Tribune video clip the counter displays “+00:00:03;01”. How much time does this read out represent? If your answer is 3.01 seconds you will find you are mistaken.

[MrBFagel]

Response 1-The word "Conspiracy" was not used in the video

The Tribune video purports to have a stop watch timer in the lower screen as "authentication". There is a semicolon in the numeric readout. This is not a second counter, but is a video frame counter as shown in the South Archer Avenue Tribune video clip the counter displays “+00:00:03;01”. How much time does this read out represent? If your answer is 3.01 seconds you will find you are mistaken. But why should that make any difference?

[TheLiarhunter]

Barnet-

The info in this below listed link completely debunks your outlandish allegations of a conspiracy theory! Being an actual traffic engineer myself, I can tell you that it is physically impossible to have ANY movement at an approach less than three seconds. The computer equipment within the traffic cabinet would automatically switch the signals to all flashing red if this were to occur. I find it very interesting that out of all of the blogs you comment on, you stood mute on this one.

[MrBFagel]

RLCs do not contain any safety benefits. If the intersection and the traffic signals are properly engineered RLCs aren't necessary and won't make a profit.

[ChrisBennett18]

red light camras can be a good thing and a bad thing its just that if someone crashes and no one sees then u have proof but the bad thing is that you get a ticket

[MrBFagel]

Federal minimum is 3 seconds of yellow signal. What process did you use to time the yellow phase??

[lmcc007]

In Union City CA. the city was forced to return over a million dollars from RLC tickets because the city was caught shortening yellow lights below the required 1 second yellow for every 10 mph of speed. For example if the speed limit is 25mph then the yellow needs to be at least 2.5 seconds, 35mph 3.5 seconds etc. Cities are using these cameras for revenue at the EXPENSE of safety.

[lmcc007]

In California running a red light is considered a moving violation and the ticket is close to $500 in most cases. Since it's a moving violation they need to identify the driver since they just can't ticket the car. Therefore why don't people just wear ski masks or visors when they drive in RLC cities to prevent them from being identified by the cameras?

[BestTits]

that one at Diversey and California is gay

[MrBFagel]

Kdog54902 as explained in the beginning of the video, video frames were converted to seconds. There are 30 frames per second.

With new video software the process has improved, Results to be posted shortly.

[Kdog54902]

Whats wrong with the counter ? It's going too fast, up to and over 5 sec.

[EatmorDiningHall]

Supposely, if you have a Nintendo Wii controller powered on and you point the wii mote at the detection sensor, it causes the photo snapper to blink non-stop and output scambled pictures so your license plate cant be read. This is probably because the accelerometer in the wii-mote must be interfering with the detection equipment sensor waves. The hard part is you have to know where the detector is (either under the street or on a post at the side of the road).

[MrBFagel]

You have a right to your opinion and who you work for. The main sticking point on Chicago intersections is the lack of adequate yellow time. Chicago claims intersections are safer, but has yet to document this claim. There initial report was held to peer review and found to be misleading and inaccurate. The city promised a replacement report this past fall, but have not supplied it.

[boyofdestiny352]

I love red light cameras. I think there should be one at every single intersection. That way, jackasses who run lights would pay more taxes than those who pay attention to yellow lights. Yellow means slow or stop, not speed up.

[MrBFagel]

Yes cyclists are threatened, but cars and trucks pay the fines.

[robopaladin]

I'm a bike commuter and I avoid intersections with red light cameras. Those short yellows are good for strapped cities needing to pay the camera companies' fees, but they're not so good for cyclists!

[robopaladin]

Short yellows aside, high red light violations are, IMO, a symptom of poor traffic engineering. Thus red light cameras tend to go up at intersections that are unsafe by design.

Local case in point, there's a new busway in the San Fernando Valley that should've been light rail or subway, but the NIMBYs objected, so now we have a dangerous doubling of at-grade intersections with, of course, red light cameras since motorists got unfairly blamed for the busway's spike in traffic collisions.

[lucifer9243]

new way of fucking money SHIT ! thats GAY

[MrBFagel]

The cameras are more of a scam than most people realize. Not only are RLCS the modern form of :"Highway Robbery", and in this case, its the goverment which calls it a citation, but its really a TAX.The net result is higher rates of rear-end collisions at camera-equipped intersections.

[lamiac2411]

This is not to make anything safer it is purely for fucking revenue! If u ask me it's an invasion of my godamn privacy you cock suckers!!

[MrBFagel]

If your car is photographed and the pictures don't show. the funeral sticker, a copy of the death certificate AND newspaper/online obituary notice will give you the best chance of getting a fair hearing. Even then, your best chances are to appear in person rather than to appeal by mail. If you do appeal by mail, send the letter certified, return receipt requested.

[SecularTechnology]

LOL You have to prove that you're in a funeral procession.

[MrBFagel]

Thanks, will do. I learning about key word strings. Look at TheTicketDoctordotnet

[OceansUvTime]

***Fire all incumbent politicians this November, 2010 who have allowed this highway robbery.*** P.S. To MrBFagel, Great video! Put in some better search terms (tags). It took me forever to find you.

[MrBFagel]

MNMNEW1 please forward your ticket information so that I may view it on-line and let you know the defense.

Barnet

[InformityAffect]

that IS pretty bad. I live in Edmonton Canada, and the yellow light lasts a lot longer than that. maybe 4- 5 seconds

[MrBFagel]

@InformityAffect Pluse Chicago tries to limit a driver's defense which does not incllude faulty equipment. As it turns out, just because Chicago states the defenses, it doesn't deny a driver's right to present evidence to contest the RLC accuracy.

[MrBFagel]

As explained in the written area, the first running number is a frame counter, not a stop watch. When the icing sequence ends the number of counted frames is converted to seconds. There are 29.97 frames per second so to be accurate the tconversion is made. This what is explained the narrative. The next video I do will offer the explanation on screen. Thanks for the inspiration.

[Kartracer6]

what the heck? The timers are going like to 5 secs and then an over lay on the screen shows less then 3....how exactly can you claim to show it over 3 secs then claim it's under. This is an odd video

[mnmnew1]

I just got a redlight tix in mail from the light at diversy & cali. I am certain I stopped although it was a hard brake and so probably crossed over the line a few inches b4 completely stopin & then continuing thru the r turn. Realistically, any chance of contesting this ticket, or should I just bend over and pay the $100?

[MrBFagel]

@mnmnew1

Send your info to barnetf@GMAIL.com I will help

[bigrussdry]

i couldnt agree more

[MrBFagel]

What do you think should be done about this? Barnet@COMCAST.net

the video, but they quiety increased the yellow interval to 3 seconds

which is still too short. Regards,

barnet@COMCAST.net

[PinePowerLI]

They are doing the same thing here in Nassau County. When the cameras go up, the yellow signal times are noticably shorter. Its almost like...why even bother having yellow at all...

[MrBFagel]

con'd TheTicketdoctor(dot)net it's brand new and I am forging ahead because Chicago has over 385 RLCs and keeps the yellows at 3 seconds, their BS is incredible. I have debated them on TV and radio... I seem to remember documentation services run by lawyers in CA for these dilemmas. Would probably save money. I am looking for a video expert because I have some suspicions about the whole RLC setup.

[MrBFagel]

I lived in the West Valley and Moorpark for 20 years and moved back to Chicago. I keep on the outlook for RLC news from all over using Google news service. I know the RLC citations in CA are a complete Rip off even after the media exposed the "insincere" camera/crash data compiled by the LAPD.

Along these lines, I have started a web based business for Illinois RLC tickets and LIDAR/RADAR cites.

[BobE430]

Oh, one more thing. I did not get a picture in the mail with me making that fault or violation.

[BobE430]

Here in California in San Leandro, you can either pay $460 or fight it in court and pay a lesser amount, but they will report you to your insurance and thus increase your ins. premium.

Or you can pay $500 and go to traffic school and not be reported to your insurance company. To me , this is a rip off. if you think those days of highway robbery is over, think again. This is coming around again.  That Austrian in Sacramento is just running out of ideas to make money for California.

[rajiv20]

join the facebook group - photonoticesucks

[billdc31]

Do they dig up the camera and bring it to court when someone wants to exercise their constitutional right of facing their accusers?

[MrBFagel]

@billdc31 Geez, I don't think so, all the video information is sent through the Internet, so the chain of custody issue is raised. This is mistakenly clasified as a civil violation, so vehicle owners lose their 4th, 5th and 14th Amendment Rights. No one testifies for the camera except the video itself. If you have ever seen one of these videos, its quality upon which the case is hinged is at best dubious.

[Stingworm]

While I'm sympathetic to your cause, I wonder how those yellow light times were measured. First, why is your frame counter running at double speed? If you have an HD recording, you _might_ have 60 frames but the counter in the video only runs to 30 frames. Why is there no regular frame counter?

Second, this really looks like you're running a PAL recording in NTSC, which would explain your 3 seconds playing as 2.5 seconds. Any explanation is appreciated,

[MrBFagel]

Stingworm . The first number you see running is a frame counter. I took the actual frame count and converted it to seconds, accurate to within one sixtieth of a second. This is why you see a change at the end of each scene. Its explained in the beginning. The video was recorded in NTSC mode, 29.97 fps. While the Sony camera I have does have HD capability, for this subject matter it didnt require it.

[vxla]

White lines or not, it's not difficult to stop *behind* the actual light pole.

Longer yellow lights just mean idiots driving faster to beat the light and, thus, not having enough braking time when they're about to run into a pedestrian, cyclist, or car who has a positive signal.

[MrBFagel]

@vxla I would like to know on what souce you base your statement? Many many reports and studies confirm a little extra yellow time means safer intersections. This would help in Chicago especially because trucks can't stop as fast as cars can in front of them. If motoriists were to drive so slow so as to not violate an improperly timed traffic signal, crashes would go up. Cameras have been shown to increase rear-end collisions by independent studies.

[MrBFagel]

@MrBFagel Agreed Maintain crosswalk and stop line markings, change to 12 inch LED signal heads. TRY longer yellows at a few experimental intersections, but the city won't even do that. They were challenged to a $10.000 bet if the city would set one stop light to properly prescribed engineering standards. If this procedure didn't reduce violations by 50 percent the National Motorists Association would pay the city $10,000. After three months they still have not accepted the challenge.

[MrBFagel]

@vxla most studies do not support that theory. Georgia passed a law adding an additional second to the yellows at camera equipped intersections. Within 6 months, the violation rate went down 70%, crashes went down 60% and a few months later the camera companies starting removing their equipment because they couldn't make a profit with properly set traffic signals.

[vxla]

@MrBFagel Oh that's good to know then. If you could share the name and dates of those studies so I can check them out it would be much appreciated.

[MrBFagel]

@vxla Show me a verified study which supports your statement and I will concede your point.

[vxla]

@MrBFagel I don't have any pointers unfortunately. I'm definitely interested in seeing the information you have (or whatever studies) so I can be more informed. Thanks for sharing that information.

[JKVIRALNETWORK]

3:05

That's the shortest yellow arrow or thru I have ever scene at a light!!!

EVER!!!

[threecircles]

Mayor Daley, you're going to sell this city to the highest bidder. They're going to rename us Bank of America, Illinois. I'll be living in the U.S. Cellular neighborhood. This is the kind of Big Brother crap that safety wonks get pushed through. Their good intentions not only make us less safe, but poorer. Oh how I wish we had LBJ type liberals again. Modern liberals are such weasely wimps. Don't get me started on conservatives. There, I feel better now.

[kyler187]

This fascist crap is going on in my city as well. I'm so sick of these traffic enforcement lights and the fast yellow light that comes with them. My job requires me to do alot of driving, and if I ever get one ticket I can lose my job. The previous person who held my job was fired for this exact reason. This does not prevent traffic accidents, but increases the likelihood that a collision can happen because of slamming your brakes on a yellow light. These cameras need to go away.

[MrBFagel]

@kyler187 Camera enforcement has never surrived a public referendum vote. Red light cameras create more driver tension.

[MrBFagel]

Please go to Motoristsdotorg the National Motorists Assoc. and you will find many studies and reports. If there is anything else I can do to help, let me know.