We agree more than you think. "Grow up" is a cheap shot. I don't want gov't to "stop a cult," I want individual criminal actions 2b held accountable by the rule of law. Period.
Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness; or Property. And THAT was a *main* duty of our once "republican*" government (*not the party but the form of gov't we once had -- right now all we have is a form of socialism and have had it since the days of FDR, at least)
Actually, that's how Scientology thinks. They say we're responsible for our own conditions. So when they make a mistake or commit a crime or abuse that harms another, they use this very concept but apply it not to themselves but to the person who was harmed; the victim. They're NEVER at fault or responsible. It's always the victim of their acts. They were responsible for their own conditions. You could have said no, to Scientology - that's the very stance they use as unbelievable as it may seem.
Should the mafia & other criminal organizations be protected because the people using THEIR DRUGS are morons for using them & didn't take the minimal effort to do some research into the dangers of drug addiction? Should we let the morons kill themselves & allow the criminals to procure their lucre as they see fit? What if the moron was your own daughter?
Faulty logic, mate. I say ban them not for their ridiculous beliefs but for their criminal acts, human rights violations & disregard for life.
You guys just simply have no idea. You have absolutely no control over the government as you bitch and moan about what it should do. Look at what it's done. This is the same government that did the Tuskegee Trials and started a war that's killed around a million Iraqi's over TOTAL LIES and has held absolutely nobody accountable.
And you want this government to help stop a cult because "it hurts people". Grow up.
Two problems here: "You guys?" & "Grow up?" Keep it civil: Who's "you guys?" For one who's seemingly for "individualism," you're very willing to bunch me up in a socialistic pluralistic "collectivism." To fully und. my position I invite you to watch my video: "Interview with Edward G. Griffin @ Ron Paul Bay Area Rally" /watch?v=W-Dhv59JYpA
"You guys" are the people that want the government to protect every idiot from doing something stupid and have the idiots, you, me, and the people getting idiots to do something you consider "stupid" to pay for it.
I don't want to pay for it.
And furthermore, I don't trust the government when it decrees something stupid or worth preventing.
How much simpler can I make this, so even YOU can understand it? Ron Paul wouldn't support a ban on Scientology, and neither would Lew Rockwell.
You, sir, don't know what you're saying. You don't know me. How can you include me in this collective?
Can I make it simpler so YOU can understand than I already did?
I don't want government to "stop a cult," I want "individual criminal actions" held accountable by the rule of law. See?
I'm sure Ron Paul doesn't condone the Mafia, or any form of criminality (incl. child labor abuse of children as young as 6, or "forced" abortions) but the RULE OF LAW: Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness.
AND I know enough about you to make this statement - you think the government ought to be involved with determining what cult is allowed and what cult isn't allowed by your current argument alone.
Ron Paul, nor Lew Rockwell, nor Ayn Rand for that matter would EVER condone what you're promoting although they would all agree Scientology is a cult, and a bad cult. Why you can't understand this simple concept is beyond me.
You can't understand it cause you've made a "straw man logical fallacy."
I don't want gov't to determine what cult is allowed, as "you"say. I want "individual criminal actions" punished. Such as "child slave labor" as young as 6 carrying boulders for hrs, for ex. as told by the current leader's own niece, Jenna Miscavige-Hill
exscientologykids. com
I know enough about you & contrary to you, enough about this cult to know you haven't got a clue
It has nothing to do with being an idiot, because Scientology is a bait-and-switch scheme. People come to Scientology hoping for increased intelligence, improved personality, and help in dealing with personal problems. They don't come in to learn a system of beliefs based on science fiction stories, infestations of alien spirits and exploding volcanos.
Members are lied to upon joining this cult, with promises that they can retain their religion, and a rigged personality test.
Perhaps, but the Church of Scientology paints Hubbard as a humanitarian, educator, world explorer, artist, philosopher and, ultimately, the very savior of mankind. It's not solely a "stupid" decision, because
1) Scientology is a bait-and-switch scheme,
2) Scientology lies, and
3) Scientology doesn't present L. Ron Hubbard as only a science fiction writer.
I wouldn't be so quick to blame the victim of the scheme based on the above information. Even the smartest of us get scammed sometimes.
> I wouldn't be so quick to blame the victim of the scheme based
> on the above information.
Here it is, right in front of you, a world repository of information and over 85% of the US population is signed onto it and those that aren't are mostly 65 and above in age.
I'm sorry, but it's not the world's fault because somebody is a moron that can't take the minimal effort to do some basic research.
"take the minimal effort to do some basic research."
You don't want to protect "morons" but you'd protect criminal scams who prey on ALL whether they be morons or NOT.
Criminal syndicates don't have a right to exist nor do they have a right to harm others.
Does a beaten wife not have a right to be protected because she didn't do the "minimal research" to find out about her prospective husband? How about a rape victim? Was she a moron for going in the wrong neighborhood?
> Criminal syndicates don't have a right to exist nor do they
> have a right to harm others.
Are you kidding me?
Our entire financial system is a criminal syndicate at this point. You think the US taxpayers just doled over 2 trillion dollars to a bunch of people just doing their jobs caught in an economic downturn?
> Does a beaten wife not have a right to be protected because
> she didn't do the "minimal research"
If she won't leave him, what am I supposed to do? You ever intervene before?
Criminal syndicates don't have a right to exist nor...harm others.
"Are you kidding me?"
Not at all. Two Wrongs DO NOT make a right.
I very much disagree with most everything that has happened in our country for many years; not just recently, but since we do not know our history, we are condemned to repeat it. The IRS & the so called Federal Reserve Bank are UNCONSTITUTIONAL, period. End of story.
"If she won't leave him, what am I supposed to do?"
I do not want the government, our CORRUPT government, to be in the business of defining what stupid dumbass cult, be it Catholicism, Protestantism, or Scientology, is acceptable and not.
>> "If she won't leave him, what am I supposed to do?"
>
> Educate the victim and PUNISH the CRIME.
You do it. And you can pay for it to.
You have an abusive husband? YOU need need to do something about it. Government isn't mommy.
Scientology needs to be held accountable. They actually want to become the corrupt Government. More corrupt than you can EVER imagine. But you miss the point.
You say you don't want the government to define what cult is acceptable or not but that's not what France is doing. Watch the video again. You're making the same point and mistake the social professor did. It's about punishing criminal acts.
Thenk you, it should....I feel bad for people who speculate on spirituality, turn it in the transaction and control tool....How sad, how tragic....where is the compassion
Correct -and you're welcome :) - $cientology has NO compassion. Its all about the money. What matters a few people get hurt, as long as we make our quota and "Clear the Planet" (another name for a world domination scheme) And we've had enough of that already) Peace be with you & yours. And no, I'm not a "Muslim," or a "Christian" :-D
I am an anonymous voice in the desert calling out for peace, justice, truth and what's right. I'm a mere human being & yes we're all special & unique. Au revoir
"You have an abusive husband? YOU need need to do something about it. Government isn't mommy."
What about an abusive thief that assaults YOU?
Do YOU, the victim need to do something about it, too? Or do you call for mommy?
Trust me, I'm for small government too & citizen responsibility but we still need to have the Rule of Law & that's one of the functions of even a small gov't: To protect its citizenry from unscrupulous men & criminal organizations.
And THEY TOO don't have a right to exist. They are CRIMINALS! Two wrongs don't make a right.
My wife worked for an intervention clinic. And "if she won't leave him" STILL doesn't excuse the husband's "criminal behavior" and THAT'S what needs to be punished. Same with the "criminal syndicate" of $cLIEntology.
Look, I don't care what people do to themselves and I'm not responsible for the crap they get themselves into.
Somebody STUPID enough to join Scientology, a fucking religion started by a 3rd rate science fiction writer, who had a simple understanding of Freud's work, is a fucking moron. I don't care about fucking morons, and I don't want to spend a DIME to help them and that means I don't want my government wasting money to stop criminals victimizing morons.
Look, what people do to themselves is one thing. But kids are not morons & Scientology's "Cadet Org" violate the child labor laws of this & many countries.
We're talking about crimes, human right violations & other abuses; irregardless of anyone's stupidity, knowledge of Freud or anything else. All that's irrelevant.
If your child was a moron & a criminal victimized it, by ANY means, would u like the criminal punished? That's what I'm saying. I'm talking about punishing "criminal behavior"
Yeah, I'm perfectly fine with morons being victimized by unscrupulous people.
You're an idealist. I'm not. I believe if you do something known to be stupid, you should suffer the consequences. For example, if you want to do heroin, go ahead, but don't ask me to help you pay for a drug rehab program.
Every organized religion is there to exploit and control people, that's their function. Scientology is no different, it's just more obvious. Going to do away with the RCC?
Yes, I'm somewhat of an idealist; less of one as time goes by but look of it this way, who's really being the "idealist?" Will your 2nd para. ever happen?
I agree with you on the role of organized religion. The only problem with your theory is those unscrupulous criminal elements are like cancer; it spreads. It doesn't "stop" at the "morons" but end up victimizing you & your daughter next. It's a big problem, I know
All that has to happen for my "ideal" (if you can call it that) to happen, is for the government to go bankrupt.
Now, either you can waste government money until it goes tits up, as you ignore it's own flagrant abuses of wasting money on total bullshit, and this will just be more bullshit to push it to the edge
Or
You can limit government, and prevent it ever from growing beyond control and into bankruptcy.
1st of all, you're preaching to the choir: I am all for small gov't, too, myself. But we'll still need gov't & mainly to protect "we the people."
So in your "ideal" sm. gov't (also our Founding Fathers) this is one of its essential duties: To protect Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness, or Property.
Other than what I've pointed out, we agree 110% on our ideas about gov't, its abuses & excesses & its own criminality & disrespect for the Rule of Law, as you point out in your next comment.
dangerous cult. do the emperors sacred duty and purify them
with fire
Sutorenja 1 year ago
We agree more than you think. "Grow up" is a cheap shot. I don't want gov't to "stop a cult," I want individual criminal actions 2b held accountable by the rule of law. Period.
Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness; or Property. And THAT was a *main* duty of our once "republican*" government (*not the party but the form of gov't we once had -- right now all we have is a form of socialism and have had it since the days of FDR, at least)
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
7:04 The guy's face morphs!!! Proof of the Reptilian Race!
frankmasterj 2 years ago
Comment removed
frankmasterj 2 years ago
Actually, that's how Scientology thinks. They say we're responsible for our own conditions. So when they make a mistake or commit a crime or abuse that harms another, they use this very concept but apply it not to themselves but to the person who was harmed; the victim. They're NEVER at fault or responsible. It's always the victim of their acts. They were responsible for their own conditions. You could have said no, to Scientology - that's the very stance they use as unbelievable as it may seem.
jdtrickster4 2 years ago 2
Should the mafia & other criminal organizations be protected because the people using THEIR DRUGS are morons for using them & didn't take the minimal effort to do some research into the dangers of drug addiction? Should we let the morons kill themselves & allow the criminals to procure their lucre as they see fit? What if the moron was your own daughter?
Faulty logic, mate. I say ban them not for their ridiculous beliefs but for their criminal acts, human rights violations & disregard for life.
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
You want to look at the mafia?
Read Gary Webb's book "Dark Alliance".
You guys just simply have no idea. You have absolutely no control over the government as you bitch and moan about what it should do. Look at what it's done. This is the same government that did the Tuskegee Trials and started a war that's killed around a million Iraqi's over TOTAL LIES and has held absolutely nobody accountable.
And you want this government to help stop a cult because "it hurts people". Grow up.
fuzzywzhe 2 years ago
No. I know if I jump off a cliff I'll die.
Two problems here: "You guys?" & "Grow up?" Keep it civil: Who's "you guys?" For one who's seemingly for "individualism," you're very willing to bunch me up in a socialistic pluralistic "collectivism." To fully und. my position I invite you to watch my video: "Interview with Edward G. Griffin @ Ron Paul Bay Area Rally" /watch?v=W-Dhv59JYpA
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
"You guys" are the people that want the government to protect every idiot from doing something stupid and have the idiots, you, me, and the people getting idiots to do something you consider "stupid" to pay for it.
I don't want to pay for it.
And furthermore, I don't trust the government when it decrees something stupid or worth preventing.
How much simpler can I make this, so even YOU can understand it? Ron Paul wouldn't support a ban on Scientology, and neither would Lew Rockwell.
fuzzywzhe 2 years ago
You, sir, don't know what you're saying. You don't know me. How can you include me in this collective?
Can I make it simpler so YOU can understand than I already did?
I don't want government to "stop a cult," I want "individual criminal actions" held accountable by the rule of law. See?
I'm sure Ron Paul doesn't condone the Mafia, or any form of criminality (incl. child labor abuse of children as young as 6, or "forced" abortions) but the RULE OF LAW: Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness.
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
I know exactly what I'm saying.
AND I know enough about you to make this statement - you think the government ought to be involved with determining what cult is allowed and what cult isn't allowed by your current argument alone.
Ron Paul, nor Lew Rockwell, nor Ayn Rand for that matter would EVER condone what you're promoting although they would all agree Scientology is a cult, and a bad cult. Why you can't understand this simple concept is beyond me.
fuzzywzhe 2 years ago
You can't understand it cause you've made a "straw man logical fallacy."
I don't want gov't to determine what cult is allowed, as "you"say. I want "individual criminal actions" punished. Such as "child slave labor" as young as 6 carrying boulders for hrs, for ex. as told by the current leader's own niece, Jenna Miscavige-Hill
exscientologykids. com
I know enough about you & contrary to you, enough about this cult to know you haven't got a clue
Ron Paul is for the Rule of Law. Sorry, padnah
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
Comment removed
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
It shouldn't be banned. Let idiots kill themselves, better than letting them reproduce.
fuzzywzhe 2 years ago
It has nothing to do with being an idiot, because Scientology is a bait-and-switch scheme. People come to Scientology hoping for increased intelligence, improved personality, and help in dealing with personal problems. They don't come in to learn a system of beliefs based on science fiction stories, infestations of alien spirits and exploding volcanos.
Members are lied to upon joining this cult, with promises that they can retain their religion, and a rigged personality test.
OpenComments 2 years ago
> It has nothing to do with being an idiot, because Scientology
> is a bait-and-switch scheme.
Look, this is a religion that was founded by a 2nd rate science fiction author.
We shouldn't be protecting people from making stupid decisions.
fuzzywzhe 2 years ago
Perhaps, but the Church of Scientology paints Hubbard as a humanitarian, educator, world explorer, artist, philosopher and, ultimately, the very savior of mankind. It's not solely a "stupid" decision, because
1) Scientology is a bait-and-switch scheme,
2) Scientology lies, and
3) Scientology doesn't present L. Ron Hubbard as only a science fiction writer.
I wouldn't be so quick to blame the victim of the scheme based on the above information. Even the smartest of us get scammed sometimes.
OpenComments 2 years ago
> I wouldn't be so quick to blame the victim of the scheme based
> on the above information.
Here it is, right in front of you, a world repository of information and over 85% of the US population is signed onto it and those that aren't are mostly 65 and above in age.
I'm sorry, but it's not the world's fault because somebody is a moron that can't take the minimal effort to do some basic research.
fuzzywzhe 2 years ago
"take the minimal effort to do some basic research."
You don't want to protect "morons" but you'd protect criminal scams who prey on ALL whether they be morons or NOT.
Criminal syndicates don't have a right to exist nor do they have a right to harm others.
Does a beaten wife not have a right to be protected because she didn't do the "minimal research" to find out about her prospective husband? How about a rape victim? Was she a moron for going in the wrong neighborhood?
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
> Criminal syndicates don't have a right to exist nor do they
> have a right to harm others.
Are you kidding me?
Our entire financial system is a criminal syndicate at this point. You think the US taxpayers just doled over 2 trillion dollars to a bunch of people just doing their jobs caught in an economic downturn?
> Does a beaten wife not have a right to be protected because
> she didn't do the "minimal research"
If she won't leave him, what am I supposed to do? You ever intervene before?
fuzzywzhe 2 years ago
Criminal syndicates don't have a right to exist nor...harm others.
"Are you kidding me?"
Not at all. Two Wrongs DO NOT make a right.
I very much disagree with most everything that has happened in our country for many years; not just recently, but since we do not know our history, we are condemned to repeat it. The IRS & the so called Federal Reserve Bank are UNCONSTITUTIONAL, period. End of story.
"If she won't leave him, what am I supposed to do?"
Educate the victim and PUNISH the CRIME.
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
> Not at all. Two Wrongs DO NOT make a right.
I do not want the government, our CORRUPT government, to be in the business of defining what stupid dumbass cult, be it Catholicism, Protestantism, or Scientology, is acceptable and not.
>> "If she won't leave him, what am I supposed to do?"
>
> Educate the victim and PUNISH the CRIME.
You do it. And you can pay for it to.
You have an abusive husband? YOU need need to do something about it. Government isn't mommy.
fuzzywzhe 2 years ago
Scientology needs to be held accountable. They actually want to become the corrupt Government. More corrupt than you can EVER imagine. But you miss the point.
You say you don't want the government to define what cult is acceptable or not but that's not what France is doing. Watch the video again. You're making the same point and mistake the social professor did. It's about punishing criminal acts.
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
Thenk you, it should....I feel bad for people who speculate on spirituality, turn it in the transaction and control tool....How sad, how tragic....where is the compassion
smartmarina 2 years ago
Correct -and you're welcome :) - $cientology has NO compassion. Its all about the money. What matters a few people get hurt, as long as we make our quota and "Clear the Planet" (another name for a world domination scheme) And we've had enough of that already) Peace be with you & yours. And no, I'm not a "Muslim," or a "Christian" :-D
I am an anonymous voice in the desert calling out for peace, justice, truth and what's right. I'm a mere human being & yes we're all special & unique. Au revoir
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
"You have an abusive husband? YOU need need to do something about it. Government isn't mommy."
What about an abusive thief that assaults YOU?
Do YOU, the victim need to do something about it, too? Or do you call for mommy?
Trust me, I'm for small government too & citizen responsibility but we still need to have the Rule of Law & that's one of the functions of even a small gov't: To protect its citizenry from unscrupulous men & criminal organizations.
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
And THEY TOO don't have a right to exist. They are CRIMINALS! Two wrongs don't make a right.
My wife worked for an intervention clinic. And "if she won't leave him" STILL doesn't excuse the husband's "criminal behavior" and THAT'S what needs to be punished. Same with the "criminal syndicate" of $cLIEntology.
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
Look, I don't care what people do to themselves and I'm not responsible for the crap they get themselves into.
Somebody STUPID enough to join Scientology, a fucking religion started by a 3rd rate science fiction writer, who had a simple understanding of Freud's work, is a fucking moron. I don't care about fucking morons, and I don't want to spend a DIME to help them and that means I don't want my government wasting money to stop criminals victimizing morons.
fuzzywzhe 2 years ago
Look, what people do to themselves is one thing. But kids are not morons & Scientology's "Cadet Org" violate the child labor laws of this & many countries.
We're talking about crimes, human right violations & other abuses; irregardless of anyone's stupidity, knowledge of Freud or anything else. All that's irrelevant.
If your child was a moron & a criminal victimized it, by ANY means, would u like the criminal punished? That's what I'm saying. I'm talking about punishing "criminal behavior"
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
You don't base or make laws on the level of stupidity of the victim but on the criminality of the perpetrator
For kids to do drugs is pretty stupid. Some may consider a 10 yr old doing crack, moronic but I still want the person who sold it to him in jail.
For a woman to go into a bad neighborhood at night alone might be idiotic, indeed but if she gets raped, I want the abuser to do time
Forced abortions, child labor, ponzi schemes, scams & practicing medicine w/out a license are all illegal.
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
I keep looking at your last statement: "I don't want my gov't wasting money to stop criminals victimizing morons"
You'd be okay with criminals victimizing morons? I don't mean to antagonize you, I really don't but that's pretty moronic in & of itself
So if I gathered a bunch of morons into some sort of prostitution sweat shop & I pimped them out? Too extreme?
No, no, my friend. The victim's degree of intelligence, common sense, etc. should play no role in the exacting of laws to seek justice.
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
Yeah, I'm perfectly fine with morons being victimized by unscrupulous people.
You're an idealist. I'm not. I believe if you do something known to be stupid, you should suffer the consequences. For example, if you want to do heroin, go ahead, but don't ask me to help you pay for a drug rehab program.
Every organized religion is there to exploit and control people, that's their function. Scientology is no different, it's just more obvious. Going to do away with the RCC?
fuzzywzhe 2 years ago
Yes, I'm somewhat of an idealist; less of one as time goes by but look of it this way, who's really being the "idealist?" Will your 2nd para. ever happen?
I agree with you on the role of organized religion. The only problem with your theory is those unscrupulous criminal elements are like cancer; it spreads. It doesn't "stop" at the "morons" but end up victimizing you & your daughter next. It's a big problem, I know
I respect & UNDERSTAND your views
As for the RCC, we have to start small. ;-)
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
All that has to happen for my "ideal" (if you can call it that) to happen, is for the government to go bankrupt.
Now, either you can waste government money until it goes tits up, as you ignore it's own flagrant abuses of wasting money on total bullshit, and this will just be more bullshit to push it to the edge
Or
You can limit government, and prevent it ever from growing beyond control and into bankruptcy.
Either way, my "ideal" will happen.
fuzzywzhe 2 years ago
1st of all, you're preaching to the choir: I am all for small gov't, too, myself. But we'll still need gov't & mainly to protect "we the people."
So in your "ideal" sm. gov't (also our Founding Fathers) this is one of its essential duties: To protect Life, Liberty & the Pursuit of Happiness, or Property.
Other than what I've pointed out, we agree 110% on our ideas about gov't, its abuses & excesses & its own criminality & disrespect for the Rule of Law, as you point out in your next comment.
jdtrickster4 2 years ago
Very good yes?
jayneshat 2 years ago
Why do French people sound like they are asking a question after every single sentence? That accent cracks me up.
JohnDoe280 2 years ago