I just want to point out also, there are millions that will not care about a sunday law coming in, Christians dont believe in God Law & Commandments, they dont believe jesus came to re-teach the law of God to those led astray by manmade changes to Gods laws, they believe jesus nailed Gods laws to the cross, They deny the hebrew teachings, & Israel today. Anyone who learns Gods laws & holds the teaching of Jesus In Keeping Gods laws are all called Israel, his children. why are christians worried
I thought the sabbath/sunday law occured at Council of Laodicea (A.D. 336) &has been in force throughout the world since. People have been killed for years since pre christianity. when did they remove this Law?, therefor it is not the catholic church that will make this law, because it has been there law since 336ad. pagan christians have the seal of Sunday already,it has only been recent years they have learnt the truth about the true sabbath. Rulers will inforce sunday & bring in the mark
This note is for people reading RudeAwakning's comments here--- FYI EGW was not talking about skin color when she made her comment about amalgamation. There are physical anomalies among several races including white people that medical personal are well aware of. Please don't point to blacks as being what Ellen White was talking about. I know some cases personally. As far as the rest of his rude comments---he is ignorant of many things concerning SDA doctrine.
Your vid is a crock. If Boehner is a Jesuit, then I am Barak Obama. If Pelosi is a Catholic then I am Benedict XVI. The Constituion is being destroyed by the heresy of Calvin. The NWO is headquarterd in the seat of Calvin, Geneva Switzerland. Chew on that a while, my bigoted brother!
In these videos, there is too much focus on the Catholic Church, which means blinders are on for other churches going through the same changes. After the Rapture, all who are left in all the churches will be combined into a One World Religion (OWR), and the Catholic Church minus the Catholic Saints who were taken away, will play an important role because of its massive infrastructure, to the OWR. The Sunday Law will be allowed by God as the device which returns all Jews to Israel.
The reason for the emphasis is that God called it the whore of Babylon, the mother of harlots, the abomination of the Earth. The reason for such an emphasis is to alert people to come out of that false system that they be not partakers of their sins and receive not the 7 last plagues. That is why there is emphasis. Hope this makes it more clearer. Also the Bible does not talk of a rapture, it is a theory of a misunderstanding of prophecy
@Jondadon2006 1 Thess 4:17, the Church is said to be "caught up" to meet Christ in the air, at the last trump. The Greek word there is "harpadzo" meaning to remove, seize, or take away.
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
you fools must have been going crazy when we had a Catholic president (JFK)...but still no "Sunday law"....when will you realize your wanna be prophecy is fools gold? Most of the immigration that will probably be allowed to stay are Mexican, and will be allowed to stay no matter their religious affiliation. Same goes with any appointments made...they're people, and whether they're Methodist, Catholic, or (heaven forbid followers of a false prophet) SDA members likely has no weight.
There are 2 different versions of the 10 commandments one that is in the bible and one that is on most things, They have taken out the 2nd commandment, which moved the 4th commandment to the 3rd and reduced it to Thou shalt keep the Sabbath holy and split the 10th into 2. I would venture to guess that the 10 commandments on the walking stick are not the ones in the bible.
Check out my front page video on my page (It's a 4 part series, so look for part 1 to watch it in order) My pastor, is very good at deciphering the end time prophesies, he tells there, about the safe place GOD has made for HIS church, to avoid the great tribulation.
GOD Bless you, I hope to see you there, when the time comes!
@RudeAwakning no doubt you mean the SDA cult that would fall on it's face if EGW were taken out of the equation, right? That being the same EGW that wrote the reason your skin is a different color is because your ancestors had sex with animals, right? The same EGW that said Jesus would return while she was alive on at least three different occurrences, right? Yeah, that's "Gods church"...or rather the cult of EGW. Koolaides for sale on isle three, maybe it'll wake you up...rudely.
@hilltree402 I am not a 7th day adventist, I agree with a few of their teachings, but I agree with a few of the teachings from several different denominations. I have not read much of EGW writings. I read a few some I don't agree with. I actually belong to another "Cult" Restored Church of God!
Just thought i'd share those quothes, the symbolism in revelation is borrowed from throughout the bible. In these verses we see what God means. Think accordingly, act accordingly.
Interesting to notice though, when it comes to the mark of the beast, it's either in the hand OR the forehead, meaning it doesn't matter if you believe, as long as you obey. Gods law however requires that you're obedient in thought anddeed
Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Exo 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.
Deu 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
The law will force all to work on Saturday, And enforce Sunday as a day of rest. Sunday-keeping will get you the mark of the beast. Keeping all of GOD's commandments including Saturday Sabbath will get you GOD's seal "Moreover also I gave them MY Sabbaths, to be a sign between ME and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them." -Ezekiel. 20:12 They enforced it once before. They called Sabbath keepers: Judaizer's google it, look it up!
Lev 23:7 In the first day you shall have a holy convocation: you shall do no work therein.
Exd 12:16 And in the first day there shall be a holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be a holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
a. a stamp, an imprinted mark: of the mark stamped on the forehead or the right hand as the badge of the followers of Antichrist, Rev. xiii. 16 sq.; xiv. 9, 11; xv. 2 Rec.; xvi. 2; xix. 20; xx. 4
Sorry, myhopeisinhim ... but the greek word means a stamp, an imprinted mark.
I haven't seen this information but we are talking about the Papal system. I have not seen any dwindling because we still see the leaders of the world going to the beast
If the roman catholic influence is so prevalent among American leaders, wouldn't the practice of said religion be seen more often. There was only ONE roman catholic president by the name of John Kennedy...and it actually hurt his campaign a bit. American presidents have always had publicity meetings with religious figures...a big one in the 90's was with the Dalai Lama. Was that a conspiracy too?
Bible prophecy is not talking about other people like the Dalai Lama, it talks of Rome. If you study through the image of Daniel 2, it shows you the whole list of nations which are in view of attention. Rome is the last one before Christ comes and takes possession of this world which is rightfully His. Look how close America and the pope have been. Something is going to happen soon.
He said what you are teaching brother! Joseph Bates came up with the sunday law theory, and you didnt even know that? Makes me question what you really know about the roots of your beliefs!
So because I don't know certain things, I'm questioned?
My friend when you study the Bible yourself with a humble heart, He is not going to judge you because you didn't know certain things. If that's the case your in trouble too because you don't know all things in the Word as I don't either.
I agree with cornerstone111...you'll never come to the conclusion of the sunday law being the mark of the beast if you just read the bible alone..You have to have outside influence.
Revelations speaks about a mark, one that gives you the ability to buy or sell....one that is put in your hand or forehead...a symbolic decision made in your mind to accept this law can't take away your decision to buy or sell..
There needs to be an outward proof that stores and jobs will accept.
It is that outward proof on your hand or forehead when presented that will allow you to buy or sell..
Please explain to me how a symbolic mark in your mind due to you accepting this law allow you to buy or sell?<--this is the one that you all have never been able to figure out...you all fall back on some type of visible evidence like a card, or something.<--which proves our point perfectly.
the issue is not buying and selling at all. This is the benefit of what you receive when you accept the mark of the beast. How can the issue be buying and selling when those who do not receive the mark, keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus? The issue is the law of God or the law of the beast at the last day. From the Bible alone, can be establised the sunday law
I didn't say the issue was buying or selling...I'm saying that not being allowed to buy or sell depends on you having the mark..that is going to be a huge factor in trying to convince people to take it because without it they can't work, or feed their family
The biggest issue comes down to the fact that if you take it you reject God and agree to serve the anti-christ....but if you don't take it and refuse to worship him...you won't be able to buy or sell
But there must be an identity that you are serving God. And thats the issue of the Sabbath in the last days. It is not a coincidence that there some christians observe a pagan day and the others observe the Biblical day.
This is Gen 3:15. This is Cain and Abel - Those who obey God and those who obey not but both are offering to God worship.
So you are willing to toss aside the fact that this mark allows a person to buy or sell...as a minor insignificant fact.
What if a feature comes out where it will be used to identify everyone, and it gets placed in the hand or forehead and it allows you to be identified with his kingdom..giving you the abliity to buy and sell.
We're really not that far away from that, as we already are identified in our country as citizens of it, allowing us to work and live here.
There will be a feature that the antichrist will give that will mark you a citizen of his world, and which will identify you as his, and give you the ability to buy and sell in his world.
What would you do when this mark comes out for the head and hand? toss it aside as false and take it anyway because you believe its a symbolic mark based on accepting a sunday law?
In each country they have an i.d card...or a type of card that shows you as a citizen, whether its a birth certificate, or a social insurance card, or a national id..or something that shows you to be a canadian, or american, or whatever citizen of where you live.
There will be no surprise that a new one will be issued when the new world order, or new world comes out with the antichrist at the head.
The sunday law cannot determine buying or selling..so i believe you might be off the Mark....
the beast is the papacy. What is their mark? changing sabbath to sunday. If the mark of the beast is this id chip, tell me where in the Bible or even from the papals mouth that the id chip is their mark. Because it is so clear the issue in the last days is against the law of God as we see it from Biblical foundations alll the way to now. Nothing ever changes with satan as he still wants man to disregard Gods law. So tell me where the papal system says their mark is the chip
Please tell me how that sunday law will affect those who don't keep it, not allowing them to buy or sell.
How will a bazzillion stores around the world that a person can visit know whether or not you worship on sunday to give them permission to sell to you?
But on top of that...there have been sunday laws since the late 1800's, it wasn't the mark then and it definitely isn't the mark now..
Its not about sunday laws, or about following the torah...its about whether or not you are going to worship the antichrist or worship God. And since God can be worshipped ON SUNDAY...its not a sunday worship law.....the worshipping goes deeper than that.
Again! you miss the issue. The point is not about going to church or worshipping God on any standard! The issue is about the law of God. The papal system changed the sign of Gods creative power and planted their own mark which is breaking the law of God
I mean even Bible Prophecy is clear what this power will do
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws
Have you not understood what I have been delineating all along? The world is going to want to get back to God and they will do this with the sunday law. Those who are not keeping this will be seen as trouble makers. When the message goes out to leave Babylon and ALL her practices which include sunday worship, some will accept and some will reject. When the plagues fall, it will be seen as of those who didnt keep sunday as the ones who cause this. We are on the brink of it passing
but again if you can tell me where in the Bible the papal mark is the id chip, then i will reconsider but from what I have studied, it is clear that it is an attack on the law of God
Thats why the REMNANT keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus: If this is the result which agrees showing that what I have been saying is from the Bible, you may need to rethink your belief
commandments of God - believe in the name of his son, Jesus Christ...and love others<----those are his commandments given to us in the new covenant.
Satan wants people to reject Jesus, he wants them to fall away from Jesus Christ....he already knows that salvation isn't by works, but by faith in him.
He'll do what he can to destroy that faith and make people turn from him. He knows if he can get people to worship him and not God then he's won those souls.
I couldn't give ten hoots about the papacy Jondadon. If the pope turns out to be the antichrist so be it....but the mark however is tied in with the economy.
Can you show me how the sunday law will effect ones ability to buy or sell? I know that buying and selling isn't the largest issue at stake, so don't think i ask this because i believe it is....I'm just saying the mark gives the person the ability to buy or sell.
How can the sunday law do so without some outside help?
He'll encourage people to get the mark just so that they can feed their families...can you imagine not having the ability to buy food, how many people will reject God and take his mark just so that they can survive?
People who don't take this mark will be persecuted and killed..while those who take it will be able to participate in the new world.
It goes deeper than a sunday law....that is what i don't think you realize
I'm not saying its an id chip...I'm just saying whatever it is will give you the ability to buy or sell...whereas if you don't get it you won't be able to.
What I'm saying is, the sunday law does not have the ability to stop a person from buying or selling...It didn't stop people from buying or selling in the past...and if its not tied in with buying or selling then you've got the wrong mark.
The bible says that it will be an etching in the skin, much like a cattle brand. This etching, or scratching in the skin, or on the skin, will give you the ability to buy or sell.
It appears it can either be a symbol, his name, or his number that will be received in the hand or forehead.
I understand you believe it to be the sunday law, but I'm afraid the sunday law cannot effect how a person buys or sell, and because a person 'can' worship on sunday it cannot be sunday worship.
And a sunday law is not like a cattle brand, or an etching in the skin....The word used for mark is defined as an etching, or a cattle/horse brand.
It's tied closely with a persons ability to live in the new world order....That is part of the lure that one must be careful to watch out for. Satan doesn't know your mind, so he can't know for sure that you are worshipping him, or the true God of the bible..so he wants something outwardly that he can see.
No its not theory...The word used for Mark...is defined as an etching...a cattle/horse brand that owners put on their cattle to show possession, ownership.
And this etching, or scratching is put in the hand or forehead....a scratching isn't symbolic...and something symbolic as you are saying it is can't determine buying or selling.
In a way it does have to do with the law..but not in the way you are saying...The bible says to only worship God along...The mark shows you've chosen to worship..
the antichrist and reject God.....it's nothing to do with the day though because God can be worshipped on any day...
and what day you worship on cannot effect buying and selling...you want to seem to avoid the buying and selling bit...if it was such a minut point God wouldn't have bothered mentioning it.
@Myhopeisinhim It can effect paychecks, no work no money, no money, no buying or selling. If you can't get a job, because no one will let you have Saturday as a day off. Well you get the picture I hope.
Your danger is that your using the concordance in the wrong way. You need to apply line upon line, precept upon precept. If you are using the concordance only, you will come up with all sorts. Daniel and Revelation are one book so if you come to the conclusion with that, you need to see it in Daniel but yet in Daniel, the issue is still the same. The law of God. Its been like that from the start.
Study Dan 2 with Rev 13 and it will bring a wider picture. Not just words only, line upon line too
The "Charagma" or mark is actually an engraving used only on inanimate things, never on living things. It is used only once in scripture outside of Revelation to describe carving a stone figure for worship. The exact meaning in Revelation is uncertain, but it certainly has absolutely nothing to do with Sunday worship. It does say some will receive "the Charagma or "mark" of his name or the mark of the number of his name. If it were a day, there wouldn't be an option of either/or.
Thanks for sharing that:) The one thing I noticed in the strongs definition it said something about a cattle branding..or it may have been a horse branding....
@Jondadon2006 Bingo, You got it, My friend, Exactly right! For the longest time, I myself was confused, I thought it was the microchip, I just found out recently, that it is the Sunday Law.
@ArmageddonComingSoon I saw a video yesterday it said 6 million Muslims have converted to Christianity. Wow that is a lot of people. It said these people had dreams where Jesus revealed himself as the savior. Praise GOD! Nothing like a global awakening. I am glad I live in the end times, so I can see this. God Bless you and keep you safe.
@RudeAwakning Yes brother, I also look forward to seeing this. But the tribulation won't be pretty. Things are about to get much worse. But the time has come where there has to be a big awakening to people. the years between 2012 and 2015 will be very interesting. God bless
I didn't say i will accept or reject the chip so i don't understand where you got that from. This is how it is going to work. The nation will want to get back to God because of how evil the world has turned out. They will want to bring about a sunday law which will bring the people back to moral benefit. They will think that it is a good thing. Those who oppose this papal sabbath will be seen as trouble makers and eventually rid them of the earth.
Please allow the Bible to interpret. The Bible tells us what the forehead or mind and the hand symbolises. Your decisions and actions. The chip is given to those who accept the mark of the beast which is enforced sun worship.
I challenge all the Christians in the entire planet -layman and church leaders alike- to pray God that the volcanic eruption I stated below would not happen:
"Before this year will be over, 2 volcanic eruptions will shake the United States of America. The name of these volcanoes had something to do with faith."
If despite of your prayer these faithful volcanoes had erupted, then, know and understand that God is with me, therefore you are under obligation to listen to me
Jon. This is fantastic. Keep doing the good work. We pray for you. And to all, REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY. And i mean the weekly Sabbath, the Lord's Holy Day. YES.
what will you do when the papacy enforces sunday read Daniel 7:25. The Sabbath is also setting apart that Christ sanctifies you. for a peculiar people. Generally people disagree with the Sabbath commandment but have no problem with the others. May we have a true heart to what is truth. for other sheep are not of this fold
Paul, John, and all the apostles didn't understand scripture as you do in your theory, as they all kept His Sabbath holy after His death. Maybe you should feel sad for them?
The Bible is SILENT when it comes to teaching that of the Ten Commandments wasn't to be kept anymore. Of course!
Well I'm not sad I have chosen to follow in the footsteps of my LORD! I am in good company!!
And I'm glad we agree, after all this, the Bible clearly shows His apostles Paul & John kept the Sabbath long after Jesus' death, like Jesus expected them to. Matt 24:20
And Paul & John were not exceptions, they ALL were keeping it. All ten commandments + 2, because when you keep the 10 in love, you keep the 2. They listened to their LORD. And our LORD is the one we obey, in faith and love.
Again, I have no problem with you having a day you hold sacred. It's actually healthy! But to say your day is the "test of loyalty" or "seal of God" falls short of the truth.
Just wondering, since you are interested in following in the footsteps of Jesus, do you keep the feast days since Jesus kept them?
Hawg the test of loyality to God in the time of Daniel was not worshipping the image. The final test to the people of God is not only about a day but the principle of when all is crumbling around them, are they still able to Rest in God without losing faith in Him.
Why is the Sabbath the Seal of God? simpley because the Sabbath is a sign of the special work of the Holy Spirit sealing the people of God. In other words we are sealed through sanctification and the Sabbath was specially sanctified.
why are we going in this cycle. Hawg the sabbaths paul was talking about were the ceremonial sabbaths. Not the 10'C sabbath. One was based on the offerings and other ordinances, the other was before sin so it was not shadow.
I see how you switch to another subject so going back to the feast days, do you understand the holydays are the feast days through line upon line with Ezekiel?
I have just found all of this out with the 10 Commandments. I went to church on Sunday all my life. I thought that was being a good Christian. Now I realize I was a dupe for Rome. Now I observe Saturday Sabbath and it's like I found a whole new world. I recommend it to all Christians. STOP Sunday keeping and warn others. If the Pope repents and observes all 10 Commandments and not just 9 then Jesus would forgive him would he not? I see Islam as a bigger threat as they can't repent. The Pope can.
Then you've changed the Word of God. Colossians 2:16 doesn't say what you want it to say. Ezekiel 45:17 records the weekly Sabbath just like Paul records it in Colossians 2:16.
Because Nirky said that we follow the examples of Christ, and you said that does it mean we keep the feast days because He did. Thats the point I was trying to bring out because we don't need to keep them but the Sabbath day is part of the 10'C written on the Heart, was established before creation so not a shadow, was told by Christ to pray that when they should flee to not be in winter or Sabbath, is the part of the everlasting gospel, was made holy and not changed, and changed by the pope.
1) Show me where it says the 10C's are the "law written on our hearts"?
2) (Shabbath-NOUN) is not in Genesis and so was NOT established "before creation".
3) Your continued use of Matt. 24:20 is wrong. It is permissible to flee for your life on the Sabbath. This verse just recognizes that other people in Judea would be keeping the Sabbath, so it would be difficult for the disciples to flee when city gates were closed, shops were closed, etc. This verse does not command the Sabbath.
The Sabbath is just as important as the rest of the 9. Will you be faithful and keep them through the grace of God? Don't wilfully disobey Hawg, it is the first angels message. If you reject the first angels message, you will not be benefited with the 2nd and 3rd. Just like the pharisees rejected Johns message and were not benefited when Christ came.
The Sabbath is the sign of the Mosaic Covenant and Jesus makes it clear through His servant Paul that is was a shadow that pointed to Him. (Col 2:16)
It is no longer necessary just like many other commands in the Old Covenant are no longer necessary.
Circumcision is the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant and it is no longer necessary. Why are you surprised that the sign of the "old" "obsolete" "fading away" "less glorious" covenant has passed as well?
1) C'mon Jon, you are reading into those texts. Not one of them says the 10C's is the law written on our hearts.
2) How can a Noun be a Verb Jon? I play basketball so here's an analogy: If I say, "Jon, I'm going balling tonight, you coming?" What am I saying? I'm speaking of playing (VERB) the game of basketball. If I say, "Jon, pass the ball!" What am I speaking of? I'm speaking of a round thing with air in it (NOUN).
You are trying to make a Verb a Noun and that simply cannot be done.
you ask the same way as a muslim. You need to look into what I am saying. whatelse was written on tables of stone? Where in the Bible does Jesus say I am God? You need to look at principle.
Luke used the word "commandment," but that does not prove that the commandment was required for Luke's readers (Gentiles). Paul used the same word to describe the rules that divided Jews from Gentiles (Eph. 2:15), but Paul says that those commandments do not have any validity for his readers. The word "commandment" does not imply any validity or permanence. Luke is simply using ordinary words to explain why the women rested. He is not commanding his readers to follow that example.
It would have been the biggest change in all their lives! One of the Ten Commandments now not to be kept? The commandment that began with "Remember" now is to be forgotten? The commandment whose persistent willful violation which was the chief reason why God allowed Israel to go into captivity was now gone??
Confusion would have reigned.
So where is Peter's teaching to the church in Jerusalem?
Where is James'?
Where is John's?
Not only is Paul silent on such a change, Paul kept it!
Again, why do you continue to harp on the Old Covenant (Ten Commandments)? Why the continued push from you to enforce the "ministry of death engraved on tablets of stone"? (II Cor 3:7-18)
The Decalogue doesn't even appear in the New Testament EVER as a unit. Not once! I wonder why?
Because it was OBSOLETE and its function, as the schoolmaster, was to lead us to Christ (Gal 3). You cannot be married to Christ and the Law at the same time (Romans 7).
Given your response, I don't think you read my question. Here it is again:
I'm talking about the early Church in Palestine. There were some Gentile believers, but the vast bulk were JEWS, who had followed the tradition handed down by Abraham, Moses, and all the Lord's? prophets!
So where is Peter's explanation to them as to why the 4th Commandment, and the 4th Commandment ONLY, was not to be kept anymore?
Paul kept the Sabbath. He also kept the feast days (Acts 18:21). What is your point? I'm sure most of the disciples kept the Sabbath, they were Jewish.
The question is why didn't they command the Gentiles to keep it? The Sabbath is mentioned ONCE in all the epistles and done so in a non-judgmental tone (Col. 2:16).
Where is all the talk about the "test of loyalty"? There is ample room to mention the Sabbath or even command it, but alas...it is never given to the Gentiles.
See, this is why Satan hasn't chosen to foist this 9 Commandment theory, he'd love if you believe it, but it is way too easy to disprove.
It is much more fruitful to him to convince Christians of keeping a day OTHER than the Lord's Day, thus achieving the same result, and drawing WORSHIP to himself, the thing he has always craved ever since he wanted to take God's place. (Isa 14:13)
And as for John, well, he doesn't suscribe to your theory, because he tells us:
"I was in the Spirit on the Lords Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, saying, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last". Rev 1:10
I'm talking about the early Church in Palestine. There were some Gentile believers, but the vast bulk were JEWS, they followed the tradition handed down by Abraham, Moses, and all the Lord's prophets!
So where is Peter's explanation to them as to why the 4th Commandment, and the 4th Commandment ONLY, was not to be kept anymore?
Where is James'?
Where is John's?
Paul, well, scripture tells us he kept the 4th Commandment! Acts 17:2
Of course they would have kept the Sabbath, they were under the Old Covenant at the time and it was the "Sign" of the Mosaic Covenant.
The New Testament is clear that the Old Covenant (Ten Commandments) is "obsolete", "fading away", "less glorious" and "old". Not sure what you're looking for but the NT is clear that the entire Old Covenant, as a whole, has expired.
We are to "cast it off" according to Paul in Gal 4:21-31.
Why do you continue to try and fit new wine into old windskins?
I mean, think about this. If early Christians were more than willing to ignorantly keep cutting the foreskins of their sons, and as a result Paul had to write much about why that ceremonial law no longer applied to them, would they not also be keeping the weekly Sabbath, something that their grandfather's grandfather had done and nobody had ever done differently in their lives? And if your position were true, the apostles would have to all write TONS to explain the new truth?? Where is it?
No, they would not be keeping the weekly Sabbath because they were Gentiles and the Sabbath was never given to them.
Judaizers came behind Paul and tried to get these Gentiles Christians to keep Moses and we have Paul's epistles to prove that those things were not to be binding on the Gentiles.
They were not to judge one another with regards to the Sabbath (Col. 2:16; Rom 14:5).
If it was an issue, why didn't Paul say so? Even the Jews agree the Sabbath wasn't given to the Gentiles.
That was established at the time of Noah. The clean from the unclean. unclean things can kill you and when knowingly eat the wrong foods, you are breaking the commandment of murder.When we look to Jesus, we wouldnt want to damage ourselves when He came to heal, thus the law is fulfilled as it is part of your life to give glory to God in your body
The NT is FORCEFUL when it comes to keeping the Sabbath. Jesus kept it, and expected His disciples to keep it after His death. Can you get any more forceful than that??
He kept all the Jewish laws, because he was born under the law and kept it perfectly (Gal. 4:4; Heb. 4:15). He killed Passover lambs, tithed to the Levites, told cleansed people to make offerings commanded by Moses (Matt. 8:4), and he observed Hanukkah (John 10:22). He would have worn blue threads on his garments (Num. 15:38) and done a lot of other things that Christians arent required to imitate.
Do you do all those things because Jesus did them?
You're right . Jesus kept the fest adys, as well as other Jewish holidays such as Hanukah, which was is the Jewish celebration of the fulfullment of Dan 8.
not so my friend. Daniel didnt even understand until Dan 9. The language you will get the answer. Dan 8 He didnt understand, Daniel 9 Gabriel came to give Him understanding. Gabriel gives a starting date and for the 70 weeks and the 2300 days. They are linked. They are not different prophecies.
The point in this is Gabriel gives Daniel the ending of Christ Ministry (Most Holy) and the Start (Outter court). The 70 weeks was given in understanding to explain the 2300 days
Yes so, The Jews consider Hanukah to be a celebration of the fulfulment of Dan 8. They thought so at the time of Christ, and Christ obseved this holiday as well. Dan 8 speaks of a little horn who was a a Greek power king, who would take away the daily sacrifice for 2300 evenings and mornings. It has nothing to do with Christ enetering the Most Holy of the Heavenly Sancturary. It deals with the earthly sacturary
Why receive doctrine from a people who do not accept Christ?
Greece was taken from Pagan Rome. You are mixing the Prophecies because it talks as Daniel not understanding but yet He understood when Gabriel gave the understanding. 2300 days were prophetic days. If once a year, they were to go into the Most Holy, how is it that it is 2300 days when it should have been once a year? There is so much evidence. As Daniel and Rev are linked, if studied carefully, you'll see Dan 8 fulfilled in Rev 11:19
If it was deleted, it would be just about the biggest Biblical news ever! So where are the whole epistles explaining why a Commandment written amongst eternal laws was really temporary? Where is the LORD's explanation? God is not a God of hiding, but of open love! He wants us to know everything!
So where is Peter's explanation as to why the Sabbath was deleted?
Where is James'?
Where is John's?
Where is Paul's? It isn't anywhere in his writings, Paul kept the Sabbath! Acts 17:2
And yet the entire New Testament is silent when it comes to a command to keep the Sabbath. Not one time is it ever commanded.
Don't say it was assumed therefore it didn't need to be mentioned because murder is addressed...was that command not assumed? Why did it need to be mentioned? How about adultery? Why did it need to be mentioned.
The Sabbath was a shadow of the Substance. Praise God we are no longer holding shadows but get to embrace the Real Thing!
That a law which He gave for us, setting aside special time with our Creator, free of the hustle and bustle of this world and everyday life, allowing study, fellowship, and meditation on His word, drawing us closer to Him, is being attacked in this end time comes as no surprise.
God never said His way would be popular in this world, but the road less traveled is the right road to be on, because it leads to Jesus.
That a law which gives us special time with our Creator, free of the hustle and bustle of this world and everyday life, allowing study, fellowship, and meditation on His word, drawing us closer to Him is being attacked in this end time is no surprise.
The early Church had trouble understanding why circumciscion was no longer a part of their life. Paul had to write much about that ceremonial law being done away with.
Your theory of one of the eternal Ten Commandments being deleted leaving 9 Commandments would be one of the biggest stories in the Bible, ever!
We would undoubtedly see Peter, James, Paul, and John write endlessly to explain why one law was suddenly no longer for them. Yet, the Bible is silent on this.
2) Have you noticed that the Sabbath is the first "holy" mentioned in Lev. 23 right along side all the other holy days are mentioned? It too was a shadow.
3) Paul was just following the same OT construction when he listed the annual, monthly and the weekly in Col. 2:16.
4) Remember if it's not the weekly Sabbath mentioned, then you have Paul saying: "Let no one judge in regard to festivals, new moons or festivals." Is a scholar such as Paul capable of such nonsense?
Nirky, thanks for addressing the text! A few observations:
1) Yes, the Old Covenant (10C's) is very clearly spoken of in Scripture as being "old" "obsolete" "fading away" and a "ministry of death" that is "less glorious" than the ministry of the Spirit. And remember that the 10C's are recorded in that book that was placed in the side of the Ark in Deut 31 that was "against us".
We have seen how Colossians 2 shows Christ blotting out the handwriting of ordinances which were against us.
We have seen that there were laws & ordinances, the book of the law, which were against us. We have seen that the new moon sabbath festivals with their meat & drink offerings were shadows of good things to come, which real substance is Christ.
These are the meanings of Col. 2:14-17. These verses don't show in any way that the weekly Sabbath of the Ten Commandments has been deleted.
Shadows, or types, were introduced because of sin and pointed forward to the deliverance from sin through Christ.
For example, lambs slain represented Jesus, the true Lamb, who would die for the sins of the world. If sin had not entered the world, there would have been no need of a Savior, and therefore, no lambs or shadows pointing to a Savior.
Sin did not exist in the world when the Sabbath was created, therefore it CANNOT be a shadow!
"So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME, but the substance is of Christ". Col. 2:16-17
"For the law, having a SHADOW OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect". Heb. 10:1
Paul says the yearly sacrificial laws were shadows!
"And they slaughtered the Passover offerings, and the priests sprinkled the blood with their hands, while the Levites skinned the animals. Then they removed the burnt offerings that they might give them to the divisions of the fathers houses of the lay people, to offer to the LORD, as it is written in the BOOK OF MOSES. And so they did with the cattle.
Also they roasted the Passover offerings with fire according to the ORDINANCE" 2 Ch. 35:11-13
"That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying, Take this book of the law, and put in the side of the ark, that it may be there for a witness against thee". Deut 31:25-26
So let's look at your texts. You cited as proofs Romans 14:5-6, Galatians 4:10 and Colossians 2:16.
The first two texts don't even mention the word "Sabbath", so let's look at the one text that actually has the word "sabbaths" in it, Colossians 2:14-17.
And we haven't even looked yet at your proofs to consider them. I just want you to think twice about what you are claiming, and see if it reconciles with what you know about the character of the Lord.
I see throughout His word that when God makes a change, He is so loving as to explain everything clearly by His prophets & apostles, and not just once, but often.
If what you claim is true, this would be a huge truth! And yet you have cited only 3 "proof" scriptures, your best, two of which don't even mention the word "Sabbath" in them!
Doesn't that sound strange, a claim of a huge Biblical change with little, if anything, written about it? Doesn't that sound odd right off the bat? Doesn't that raise red flags in your mind? It does mine.
Well to start with, you claim that one of God's laws, the Sabbath, and only one, which is in the middle of the 10 commandments, written on stone by the very finger of God, has now been deleted. You believe the command which began "Remember" is now to be forgotten.
In my mind, if this were true, it would be one of the biggest Bible stories ever, next to Jesus' first coming, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and Jesus' second coming. The deletion of a 10 commandment law would be momentous!
Because you do realize the importance of what you are claiming, the magnitude of your claim, something so important I dare say behind Jesus' first coming, the second coming, and the outpouring of His Holy Spirit, nothing else in the Bible could be more important and need more explaining by His apostles more than deletion of one (and just one as you claim) of His laws written with His own finger on stone.
Can I take it by your lack of answering my question that the 3 "proof" scriptures you referenced earlier are the best ones which you believe show that God is telling us that a law written on stone amongst all His other eternal commandments is now deleted?
Are these 3 scriptures the best ones? If so then please tell me, we can look into them together.
Okay, in answer to my question, you believe then that those three texts you named provide the best "proof" that God has now deleted one, and only one, of His commandments?
Those 3 texts provide the bulk of the New Testament teachings which God gave to the apostles to show that one of His formerly eternal laws was really temporal, hidden in the middle of the true eternal laws?
I just want to understand this correctly, because you don't exactly respond to questions in a straightforward manner.
Can I assume then since you cannot produce the clear teachings from scripture where God now shows us that He has deleted one of His formerly eternal laws and that there are really now 9 commandments, the best evidence you have as "proof" texts are those 3 that you used earlier?
Are you telling me there's a command to keep the Sabbath in those texts?
C'mon Jon.
Mark 2 - No command to observe and keep holy the Sabbath day.
Hebrews 4 - "Sabbatismos" is a sabbath-like rest we enter into "today" Hebrews 4:7. It is not Israel's Sabbath which was entered into once a week.
Rev 14 - Have you ever done that study on John's usage of "commandments" and "Law"? John is not referring to the 10C's otherwise he would have used "nomos" instead of "entole".
You didn't address the text I supplied from Deut 5:15. Here it is:
"REMEMBER that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. THEREFORE the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day."
Now, here's a very simple question. Please answer it.
I just want to point out also, there are millions that will not care about a sunday law coming in, Christians dont believe in God Law & Commandments, they dont believe jesus came to re-teach the law of God to those led astray by manmade changes to Gods laws, they believe jesus nailed Gods laws to the cross, They deny the hebrew teachings, & Israel today. Anyone who learns Gods laws & holds the teaching of Jesus In Keeping Gods laws are all called Israel, his children. why are christians worried
MistyMarie1970 3 months ago
I thought the sabbath/sunday law occured at Council of Laodicea (A.D. 336) &has been in force throughout the world since. People have been killed for years since pre christianity. when did they remove this Law?, therefor it is not the catholic church that will make this law, because it has been there law since 336ad. pagan christians have the seal of Sunday already,it has only been recent years they have learnt the truth about the true sabbath. Rulers will inforce sunday & bring in the mark
MistyMarie1970 3 months ago
This note is for people reading RudeAwakning's comments here--- FYI EGW was not talking about skin color when she made her comment about amalgamation. There are physical anomalies among several races including white people that medical personal are well aware of. Please don't point to blacks as being what Ellen White was talking about. I know some cases personally. As far as the rest of his rude comments---he is ignorant of many things concerning SDA doctrine.
NewEarthWellness 7 months ago
@NewEarthWellness
amen
Jondadon2006 7 months ago
Your vid is a crock. If Boehner is a Jesuit, then I am Barak Obama. If Pelosi is a Catholic then I am Benedict XVI. The Constituion is being destroyed by the heresy of Calvin. The NWO is headquarterd in the seat of Calvin, Geneva Switzerland. Chew on that a while, my bigoted brother!
GriffinElliot 8 months ago
In these videos, there is too much focus on the Catholic Church, which means blinders are on for other churches going through the same changes. After the Rapture, all who are left in all the churches will be combined into a One World Religion (OWR), and the Catholic Church minus the Catholic Saints who were taken away, will play an important role because of its massive infrastructure, to the OWR. The Sunday Law will be allowed by God as the device which returns all Jews to Israel.
rollinshultz 10 months ago
@rollinshultz
The reason for the emphasis is that God called it the whore of Babylon, the mother of harlots, the abomination of the Earth. The reason for such an emphasis is to alert people to come out of that false system that they be not partakers of their sins and receive not the 7 last plagues. That is why there is emphasis. Hope this makes it more clearer. Also the Bible does not talk of a rapture, it is a theory of a misunderstanding of prophecy
Jondadon2006 10 months ago
@Jondadon2006 1 Thess 4:17, the Church is said to be "caught up" to meet Christ in the air, at the last trump. The Greek word there is "harpadzo" meaning to remove, seize, or take away.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (King James Version)
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
harvestsoulfly 8 months ago
you fools must have been going crazy when we had a Catholic president (JFK)...but still no "Sunday law"....when will you realize your wanna be prophecy is fools gold? Most of the immigration that will probably be allowed to stay are Mexican, and will be allowed to stay no matter their religious affiliation. Same goes with any appointments made...they're people, and whether they're Methodist, Catholic, or (heaven forbid followers of a false prophet) SDA members likely has no weight.
hilltree402 10 months ago
There are 2 different versions of the 10 commandments one that is in the bible and one that is on most things, They have taken out the 2nd commandment, which moved the 4th commandment to the 3rd and reduced it to Thou shalt keep the Sabbath holy and split the 10th into 2. I would venture to guess that the 10 commandments on the walking stick are not the ones in the bible.
Doctrinekeeper 10 months ago
Check out my front page video on my page (It's a 4 part series, so look for part 1 to watch it in order) My pastor, is very good at deciphering the end time prophesies, he tells there, about the safe place GOD has made for HIS church, to avoid the great tribulation.
GOD Bless you, I hope to see you there, when the time comes!
RudeAwakning 1 year ago
@RudeAwakning no doubt you mean the SDA cult that would fall on it's face if EGW were taken out of the equation, right? That being the same EGW that wrote the reason your skin is a different color is because your ancestors had sex with animals, right? The same EGW that said Jesus would return while she was alive on at least three different occurrences, right? Yeah, that's "Gods church"...or rather the cult of EGW. Koolaides for sale on isle three, maybe it'll wake you up...rudely.
hilltree402 10 months ago
@hilltree402 I am not a 7th day adventist, I agree with a few of their teachings, but I agree with a few of the teachings from several different denominations. I have not read much of EGW writings. I read a few some I don't agree with. I actually belong to another "Cult" Restored Church of God!
RudeAwakning 3 months ago
Just thought i'd share those quothes, the symbolism in revelation is borrowed from throughout the bible. In these verses we see what God means. Think accordingly, act accordingly.
Interesting to notice though, when it comes to the mark of the beast, it's either in the hand OR the forehead, meaning it doesn't matter if you believe, as long as you obey. Gods law however requires that you're obedient in thought anddeed
Farseer477 1 year ago
Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Farseer477 1 year ago
Exo 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.
Deu 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
Farseer477 1 year ago
The law will force all to work on Saturday, And enforce Sunday as a day of rest. Sunday-keeping will get you the mark of the beast. Keeping all of GOD's commandments including Saturday Sabbath will get you GOD's seal "Moreover also I gave them MY Sabbaths, to be a sign between ME and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them." -Ezekiel. 20:12 They enforced it once before. They called Sabbath keepers: Judaizer's google it, look it up!
RudeAwakning 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Lev 23:7 In the first day you shall have a holy convocation: you shall do no work therein.
Exd 12:16 And in the first day there shall be a holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be a holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
LOOK LIKE SATURDAY WAS ALSO A DAY OF REST
Dwrancho144 1 year ago
χάραγμα (charagma, 5480), -τος, τό,
a. a stamp, an imprinted mark: of the mark stamped on the forehead or the right hand as the badge of the followers of Antichrist, Rev. xiii. 16 sq.; xiv. 9, 11; xv. 2 Rec.; xvi. 2; xix. 20; xx. 4
Sorry, myhopeisinhim ... but the greek word means a stamp, an imprinted mark.
Truth146dotCom 1 year ago
If all this is SOOO true...why is the catholic church dwindling all around the world at such a rapid rate??
Asperuaca 1 year ago
I haven't seen this information but we are talking about the Papal system. I have not seen any dwindling because we still see the leaders of the world going to the beast
Jondadon2006 1 year ago
If the roman catholic influence is so prevalent among American leaders, wouldn't the practice of said religion be seen more often. There was only ONE roman catholic president by the name of John Kennedy...and it actually hurt his campaign a bit. American presidents have always had publicity meetings with religious figures...a big one in the 90's was with the Dalai Lama. Was that a conspiracy too?
Asperuaca 1 year ago
Bible prophecy is not talking about other people like the Dalai Lama, it talks of Rome. If you study through the image of Daniel 2, it shows you the whole list of nations which are in view of attention. Rome is the last one before Christ comes and takes possession of this world which is rightfully His. Look how close America and the pope have been. Something is going to happen soon.
Jondadon2006 1 year ago
@Jondadon2006
Have you ever heard of the Black Pope?
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
The sunday laws is a cult belief, and can never be found in the bible alone!
cornerstone111 2 years ago
my friend i can show you from the Bible alone of the sunday law.
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
Where? Its a theory that didnt even exist until Joseph Bates came up with it!!!
cornerstone111 2 years ago
If you study through Rev 13 and Rev 14 and Rev 16 you will see its clarity
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
I will begin doing up a presentation from Prophecy up to now so that it is clear
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
No my friend, if you had never read Joseph Bates theory on Sunday laws, you never would have come to that conclusion in Rev 13 14 and 16!
cornerstone111 2 years ago
ok its not a theory and i don't know what He said. I'll put together a presentation soon
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
He said what you are teaching brother! Joseph Bates came up with the sunday law theory, and you didnt even know that? Makes me question what you really know about the roots of your beliefs!
cornerstone111 2 years ago
So because I don't know certain things, I'm questioned?
My friend when you study the Bible yourself with a humble heart, He is not going to judge you because you didn't know certain things. If that's the case your in trouble too because you don't know all things in the Word as I don't either.
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
I agree with cornerstone111...you'll never come to the conclusion of the sunday law being the mark of the beast if you just read the bible alone..You have to have outside influence.
Revelations speaks about a mark, one that gives you the ability to buy or sell....one that is put in your hand or forehead...a symbolic decision made in your mind to accept this law can't take away your decision to buy or sell..
There needs to be an outward proof that stores and jobs will accept.
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
It is that outward proof on your hand or forehead when presented that will allow you to buy or sell..
Please explain to me how a symbolic mark in your mind due to you accepting this law allow you to buy or sell?<--this is the one that you all have never been able to figure out...you all fall back on some type of visible evidence like a card, or something.<--which proves our point perfectly.
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
the issue is not buying and selling at all. This is the benefit of what you receive when you accept the mark of the beast. How can the issue be buying and selling when those who do not receive the mark, keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus? The issue is the law of God or the law of the beast at the last day. From the Bible alone, can be establised the sunday law
Jondadon2006 1 year ago
I didn't say the issue was buying or selling...I'm saying that not being allowed to buy or sell depends on you having the mark..that is going to be a huge factor in trying to convince people to take it because without it they can't work, or feed their family
The biggest issue comes down to the fact that if you take it you reject God and agree to serve the anti-christ....but if you don't take it and refuse to worship him...you won't be able to buy or sell
How can a symbolic mark determine that?
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
But there must be an identity that you are serving God. And thats the issue of the Sabbath in the last days. It is not a coincidence that there some christians observe a pagan day and the others observe the Biblical day.
This is Gen 3:15. This is Cain and Abel - Those who obey God and those who obey not but both are offering to God worship.
Who was marked? Cain
Even the beginning of time is a witness to this
Jondadon2006 1 year ago
So you are willing to toss aside the fact that this mark allows a person to buy or sell...as a minor insignificant fact.
What if a feature comes out where it will be used to identify everyone, and it gets placed in the hand or forehead and it allows you to be identified with his kingdom..giving you the abliity to buy and sell.
We're really not that far away from that, as we already are identified in our country as citizens of it, allowing us to work and live here.
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
There will be a feature that the antichrist will give that will mark you a citizen of his world, and which will identify you as his, and give you the ability to buy and sell in his world.
What would you do when this mark comes out for the head and hand? toss it aside as false and take it anyway because you believe its a symbolic mark based on accepting a sunday law?
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
In each country they have an i.d card...or a type of card that shows you as a citizen, whether its a birth certificate, or a social insurance card, or a national id..or something that shows you to be a canadian, or american, or whatever citizen of where you live.
There will be no surprise that a new one will be issued when the new world order, or new world comes out with the antichrist at the head.
The sunday law cannot determine buying or selling..so i believe you might be off the Mark....
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
...no pun intended*lol*
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
the beast is the papacy. What is their mark? changing sabbath to sunday. If the mark of the beast is this id chip, tell me where in the Bible or even from the papals mouth that the id chip is their mark. Because it is so clear the issue in the last days is against the law of God as we see it from Biblical foundations alll the way to now. Nothing ever changes with satan as he still wants man to disregard Gods law. So tell me where the papal system says their mark is the chip
Jondadon2006 1 year ago
Please tell me how that sunday law will affect those who don't keep it, not allowing them to buy or sell.
How will a bazzillion stores around the world that a person can visit know whether or not you worship on sunday to give them permission to sell to you?
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
But on top of that...there have been sunday laws since the late 1800's, it wasn't the mark then and it definitely isn't the mark now..
Its not about sunday laws, or about following the torah...its about whether or not you are going to worship the antichrist or worship God. And since God can be worshipped ON SUNDAY...its not a sunday worship law.....the worshipping goes deeper than that.
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
Again! you miss the issue. The point is not about going to church or worshipping God on any standard! The issue is about the law of God. The papal system changed the sign of Gods creative power and planted their own mark which is breaking the law of God
I mean even Bible Prophecy is clear what this power will do
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws
I don't know how clearer you want it
Jondadon2006 1 year ago
Have you not understood what I have been delineating all along? The world is going to want to get back to God and they will do this with the sunday law. Those who are not keeping this will be seen as trouble makers. When the message goes out to leave Babylon and ALL her practices which include sunday worship, some will accept and some will reject. When the plagues fall, it will be seen as of those who didnt keep sunday as the ones who cause this. We are on the brink of it passing
Jondadon2006 1 year ago
but again if you can tell me where in the Bible the papal mark is the id chip, then i will reconsider but from what I have studied, it is clear that it is an attack on the law of God
Thats why the REMNANT keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus: If this is the result which agrees showing that what I have been saying is from the Bible, you may need to rethink your belief
Commandments of God & Faith of Jesus
Commandments of God & Faith of Jesus
Commandments of God & Faith of Jesus
Jondadon2006 1 year ago
commandments of God - believe in the name of his son, Jesus Christ...and love others<----those are his commandments given to us in the new covenant.
Satan wants people to reject Jesus, he wants them to fall away from Jesus Christ....he already knows that salvation isn't by works, but by faith in him.
He'll do what he can to destroy that faith and make people turn from him. He knows if he can get people to worship him and not God then he's won those souls.
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
I couldn't give ten hoots about the papacy Jondadon. If the pope turns out to be the antichrist so be it....but the mark however is tied in with the economy.
Can you show me how the sunday law will effect ones ability to buy or sell? I know that buying and selling isn't the largest issue at stake, so don't think i ask this because i believe it is....I'm just saying the mark gives the person the ability to buy or sell.
How can the sunday law do so without some outside help?
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago 2
He'll encourage people to get the mark just so that they can feed their families...can you imagine not having the ability to buy food, how many people will reject God and take his mark just so that they can survive?
People who don't take this mark will be persecuted and killed..while those who take it will be able to participate in the new world.
It goes deeper than a sunday law....that is what i don't think you realize
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago 2
I'm not saying its an id chip...I'm just saying whatever it is will give you the ability to buy or sell...whereas if you don't get it you won't be able to.
What I'm saying is, the sunday law does not have the ability to stop a person from buying or selling...It didn't stop people from buying or selling in the past...and if its not tied in with buying or selling then you've got the wrong mark.
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago 2
So what are you saying the mark is? whatever the mark is, is has to be in conflict with the commandments of God. So what is the mark?
Jondadon2006 1 year ago
The bible says that it will be an etching in the skin, much like a cattle brand. This etching, or scratching in the skin, or on the skin, will give you the ability to buy or sell.
It appears it can either be a symbol, his name, or his number that will be received in the hand or forehead.
I understand you believe it to be the sunday law, but I'm afraid the sunday law cannot effect how a person buys or sell, and because a person 'can' worship on sunday it cannot be sunday worship.
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
And a sunday law is not like a cattle brand, or an etching in the skin....The word used for mark is defined as an etching, or a cattle/horse brand.
It's tied closely with a persons ability to live in the new world order....That is part of the lure that one must be careful to watch out for. Satan doesn't know your mind, so he can't know for sure that you are worshipping him, or the true God of the bible..so he wants something outwardly that he can see.
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
your going in theory and not Bible. The issue has to be with the law of God because of Rev 14:12
Jondadon2006 1 year ago
No its not theory...The word used for Mark...is defined as an etching...a cattle/horse brand that owners put on their cattle to show possession, ownership.
And this etching, or scratching is put in the hand or forehead....a scratching isn't symbolic...and something symbolic as you are saying it is can't determine buying or selling.
In a way it does have to do with the law..but not in the way you are saying...The bible says to only worship God along...The mark shows you've chosen to worship..
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
the antichrist and reject God.....it's nothing to do with the day though because God can be worshipped on any day...
and what day you worship on cannot effect buying and selling...you want to seem to avoid the buying and selling bit...if it was such a minut point God wouldn't have bothered mentioning it.
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
@Myhopeisinhim It can effect paychecks, no work no money, no money, no buying or selling. If you can't get a job, because no one will let you have Saturday as a day off. Well you get the picture I hope.
RudeAwakning 1 year ago
Your danger is that your using the concordance in the wrong way. You need to apply line upon line, precept upon precept. If you are using the concordance only, you will come up with all sorts. Daniel and Revelation are one book so if you come to the conclusion with that, you need to see it in Daniel but yet in Daniel, the issue is still the same. The law of God. Its been like that from the start.
Study Dan 2 with Rev 13 and it will bring a wider picture. Not just words only, line upon line too
Jondadon2006 1 year ago
The "Charagma" or mark is actually an engraving used only on inanimate things, never on living things. It is used only once in scripture outside of Revelation to describe carving a stone figure for worship. The exact meaning in Revelation is uncertain, but it certainly has absolutely nothing to do with Sunday worship. It does say some will receive "the Charagma or "mark" of his name or the mark of the number of his name. If it were a day, there wouldn't be an option of either/or.
protochris 1 year ago
Thanks for sharing that:) The one thing I noticed in the strongs definition it said something about a cattle branding..or it may have been a horse branding....
Myhopeisinhim 1 year ago
@Jondadon2006 Bingo, You got it, My friend, Exactly right! For the longest time, I myself was confused, I thought it was the microchip, I just found out recently, that it is the Sunday Law.
RudeAwakning 1 year ago
@RudeAwakning The beast and Antichrist is Islam. More and more Christians are now discovering that Islam is the beast and Antichrist.
ArmageddonComingSoon 1 year ago 2
@ArmageddonComingSoon I saw a video yesterday it said 6 million Muslims have converted to Christianity. Wow that is a lot of people. It said these people had dreams where Jesus revealed himself as the savior. Praise GOD! Nothing like a global awakening. I am glad I live in the end times, so I can see this. God Bless you and keep you safe.
RudeAwakning 1 year ago
@RudeAwakning Yes brother, I also look forward to seeing this. But the tribulation won't be pretty. Things are about to get much worse. But the time has come where there has to be a big awakening to people. the years between 2012 and 2015 will be very interesting. God bless
ArmageddonComingSoon 1 year ago
@ArmageddonComingSoon I have been coming to that conclusion lately. Frightning indeed.
rentintin2000 11 months ago
I didn't say i will accept or reject the chip so i don't understand where you got that from. This is how it is going to work. The nation will want to get back to God because of how evil the world has turned out. They will want to bring about a sunday law which will bring the people back to moral benefit. They will think that it is a good thing. Those who oppose this papal sabbath will be seen as trouble makers and eventually rid them of the earth.
Jondadon2006 1 year ago
Please allow the Bible to interpret. The Bible tells us what the forehead or mind and the hand symbolises. Your decisions and actions. The chip is given to those who accept the mark of the beast which is enforced sun worship.
Jondadon2006 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I challenge all the Christians in the entire planet -layman and church leaders alike- to pray God that the volcanic eruption I stated below would not happen:
"Before this year will be over, 2 volcanic eruptions will shake the United States of America. The name of these volcanoes had something to do with faith."
If despite of your prayer these faithful volcanoes had erupted, then, know and understand that God is with me, therefore you are under obligation to listen to me
conceil8 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
LEAVE YOUR CHURCH! (faith in Christ alone is all that matters)
DO NOT BUY, DO NOT SELL (just help for free; give for free).
DESTROY ALL THE WORKS OF THE BEAST (be perfectly holy)
conceil8 2 years ago
Man can't get it through his head it matters
to God which day we come to worship.
Man will not lay aside his hand from
working that day. God is a Spirit and
those who worship him. Must do so in
spirit and in truth. Sun day is the 1st
day of the week. Sunday worship is the mark of Rome.
jblcva 2 years ago
There was a 1611 Law in Virginia, Stated
1st time you missed Sunday worship this
will happen. 2nd missed service. Either
morning or evening. Public flogging plus
possibly imprisonment. 3rd time death.
jblcva 2 years ago
america need catholics , not muslims muslims can stay in saudi arabia
abominationof 2 years ago
America needs consecrated, Holy Spirit filled SDA's !
hdiylove 2 years ago 2
America needs real christianity, not SDA or Catholics!!!
cornerstone111 2 years ago
Jon. This is fantastic. Keep doing the good work. We pray for you. And to all, REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY. And i mean the weekly Sabbath, the Lord's Holy Day. YES.
chinhu1978 2 years ago 2
what will you do when the papacy enforces sunday read Daniel 7:25. The Sabbath is also setting apart that Christ sanctifies you. for a peculiar people. Generally people disagree with the Sabbath commandment but have no problem with the others. May we have a true heart to what is truth. for other sheep are not of this fold
healingbalministries 2 years ago
When the Sunday laws hit (which they won't) you should just follow Ellen advice and "give Sunday to the Lord" and "hold religious meetings".
But you should follow the law and not work on Sunday...at least according to her.
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
Paul, John, and all the apostles didn't understand scripture as you do in your theory, as they all kept His Sabbath holy after His death. Maybe you should feel sad for them?
The Bible is SILENT when it comes to teaching that of the Ten Commandments wasn't to be kept anymore. Of course!
Nirky 2 years ago
You have yet to address the fact that Paul kept the Feast days as well.
Do you?
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago 2
No test of loyalty, it's love. Jesus said "If you love me, keep my commandments." So I do.
Nirky 2 years ago
Your prophet says the Sabbath Day is the test of loyalty.
Those commandments He mentions in John 14:15 are not the Ten Commandments. They are His commands from His ministry here.
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago 2
Well I'm not sad I have chosen to follow in the footsteps of my LORD! I am in good company!!
And I'm glad we agree, after all this, the Bible clearly shows His apostles Paul & John kept the Sabbath long after Jesus' death, like Jesus expected them to. Matt 24:20
And Paul & John were not exceptions, they ALL were keeping it. All ten commandments + 2, because when you keep the 10 in love, you keep the 2. They listened to their LORD. And our LORD is the one we obey, in faith and love.
Nirky 2 years ago
Again, I have no problem with you having a day you hold sacred. It's actually healthy! But to say your day is the "test of loyalty" or "seal of God" falls short of the truth.
Just wondering, since you are interested in following in the footsteps of Jesus, do you keep the feast days since Jesus kept them?
Serious question...
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago 2
Hawg the test of loyality to God in the time of Daniel was not worshipping the image. The final test to the people of God is not only about a day but the principle of when all is crumbling around them, are they still able to Rest in God without losing faith in Him.
Why is the Sabbath the Seal of God? simpley because the Sabbath is a sign of the special work of the Holy Spirit sealing the people of God. In other words we are sealed through sanctification and the Sabbath was specially sanctified.
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
Feast days don't need to be kept. Look at line upon line
" meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
" Col 2:16
Now look in the same order
"...meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths..." Eze 45:17
The Holy days were the Feast days
This should be clear i hope. What do you think?
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
Exactly Jon!
Both those texts mention the weekly Sabbath! We are not to judge people on these shadows mentioned by Paul...
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago 2
why are we going in this cycle. Hawg the sabbaths paul was talking about were the ceremonial sabbaths. Not the 10'C sabbath. One was based on the offerings and other ordinances, the other was before sin so it was not shadow.
I see how you switch to another subject so going back to the feast days, do you understand the holydays are the feast days through line upon line with Ezekiel?
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
I have just found all of this out with the 10 Commandments. I went to church on Sunday all my life. I thought that was being a good Christian. Now I realize I was a dupe for Rome. Now I observe Saturday Sabbath and it's like I found a whole new world. I recommend it to all Christians. STOP Sunday keeping and warn others. If the Pope repents and observes all 10 Commandments and not just 9 then Jesus would forgive him would he not? I see Islam as a bigger threat as they can't repent. The Pope can.
clarkewi 2 years ago
Then you've changed the Word of God. Colossians 2:16 doesn't say what you want it to say. Ezekiel 45:17 records the weekly Sabbath just like Paul records it in Colossians 2:16.
I'm so sorry you have chosen that path.
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
your changing the subject again. Do you understand that the feast days are the holydays through line upon line?
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
Didn't understand the question. Yes, the festivals were considered "holy days".
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
Because Nirky said that we follow the examples of Christ, and you said that does it mean we keep the feast days because He did. Thats the point I was trying to bring out because we don't need to keep them but the Sabbath day is part of the 10'C written on the Heart, was established before creation so not a shadow, was told by Christ to pray that when they should flee to not be in winter or Sabbath, is the part of the everlasting gospel, was made holy and not changed, and changed by the pope.
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
1) Show me where it says the 10C's are the "law written on our hearts"?
2) (Shabbath-NOUN) is not in Genesis and so was NOT established "before creation".
3) Your continued use of Matt. 24:20 is wrong. It is permissible to flee for your life on the Sabbath. This verse just recognizes that other people in Judea would be keeping the Sabbath, so it would be difficult for the disciples to flee when city gates were closed, shops were closed, etc. This verse does not command the Sabbath.
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
1. Heb 8:10;10:16, 2 Cor 3:3
2. "the seventh day God ended his work which he had MADE; and he RESTED on the SEVENTHDAY from all his work which he had made." Gen 2:2
"the LORD MADE heaven and earth, the sea... and RESTED the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD blessed THE SABBATH DAY, and hallowed it." Ex 20:11
Don't harden Hawg you can see the clearness!
3.actually the diciples kept the Sabbath after His death. Luke a gentile says "rested the sabbath day according to the commandment." Luke 23:56
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
The Sabbath is just as important as the rest of the 9. Will you be faithful and keep them through the grace of God? Don't wilfully disobey Hawg, it is the first angels message. If you reject the first angels message, you will not be benefited with the 2nd and 3rd. Just like the pharisees rejected Johns message and were not benefited when Christ came.
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
The Sabbath is the sign of the Mosaic Covenant and Jesus makes it clear through His servant Paul that is was a shadow that pointed to Him. (Col 2:16)
It is no longer necessary just like many other commands in the Old Covenant are no longer necessary.
Circumcision is the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant and it is no longer necessary. Why are you surprised that the sign of the "old" "obsolete" "fading away" "less glorious" covenant has passed as well?
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago 2
The Shabbat is an everlasting covenant
between God and his people. That you
may know i am the GOD That does
sanctify you. Why do people think Yashua
came to do away with the Law? He came
to fulfill, not destroy. Sabbath is a creation
principal. God blessed, and Sanctified..
Might want to look up those 2 Hebrew words, brethren?
jblcva 2 years ago 2
1) C'mon Jon, you are reading into those texts. Not one of them says the 10C's is the law written on our hearts.
2) How can a Noun be a Verb Jon? I play basketball so here's an analogy: If I say, "Jon, I'm going balling tonight, you coming?" What am I saying? I'm speaking of playing (VERB) the game of basketball. If I say, "Jon, pass the ball!" What am I speaking of? I'm speaking of a round thing with air in it (NOUN).
You are trying to make a Verb a Noun and that simply cannot be done.
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago 2
you ask the same way as a muslim. You need to look into what I am saying. whatelse was written on tables of stone? Where in the Bible does Jesus say I am God? You need to look at principle.
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
Luke used the word "commandment," but that does not prove that the commandment was required for Luke's readers (Gentiles). Paul used the same word to describe the rules that divided Jews from Gentiles (Eph. 2:15), but Paul says that those commandments do not have any validity for his readers. The word "commandment" does not imply any validity or permanence. Luke is simply using ordinary words to explain why the women rested. He is not commanding his readers to follow that example.
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
Rested the Sabbath according to the commandment.
What did God say from the beginning? He rested on His day. So much line upon line.
Dont forget about the 1st angels message
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
The greek is SABBATON it means WEEKLY SABBATH.
holysaturnius 2 years ago 2
Saturday was derived from Saturn. In
Italian it is Sabbato, the Sabbath.
Sabado in Spanish...
jblcva 2 years ago
It would have been the biggest change in all their lives! One of the Ten Commandments now not to be kept? The commandment that began with "Remember" now is to be forgotten? The commandment whose persistent willful violation which was the chief reason why God allowed Israel to go into captivity was now gone??
Confusion would have reigned.
So where is Peter's teaching to the church in Jerusalem?
Where is James'?
Where is John's?
Not only is Paul silent on such a change, Paul kept it!
Nirky 2 years ago
Again, why do you continue to harp on the Old Covenant (Ten Commandments)? Why the continued push from you to enforce the "ministry of death engraved on tablets of stone"? (II Cor 3:7-18)
The Decalogue doesn't even appear in the New Testament EVER as a unit. Not once! I wonder why?
Because it was OBSOLETE and its function, as the schoolmaster, was to lead us to Christ (Gal 3). You cannot be married to Christ and the Law at the same time (Romans 7).
It's sad to see what you have chosen.
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago 2
Given your response, I don't think you read my question. Here it is again:
I'm talking about the early Church in Palestine. There were some Gentile believers, but the vast bulk were JEWS, who had followed the tradition handed down by Abraham, Moses, and all the Lord's? prophets!
So where is Peter's explanation to them as to why the 4th Commandment, and the 4th Commandment ONLY, was not to be kept anymore?
Where is James'?
Where is John's?
We know Paul kept it. Acts 17:2
Nirky 2 years ago
Paul kept the Sabbath. He also kept the feast days (Acts 18:21). What is your point? I'm sure most of the disciples kept the Sabbath, they were Jewish.
The question is why didn't they command the Gentiles to keep it? The Sabbath is mentioned ONCE in all the epistles and done so in a non-judgmental tone (Col. 2:16).
Where is all the talk about the "test of loyalty"? There is ample room to mention the Sabbath or even command it, but alas...it is never given to the Gentiles.
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago 2
See, this is why Satan hasn't chosen to foist this 9 Commandment theory, he'd love if you believe it, but it is way too easy to disprove.
It is much more fruitful to him to convince Christians of keeping a day OTHER than the Lord's Day, thus achieving the same result, and drawing WORSHIP to himself, the thing he has always craved ever since he wanted to take God's place. (Isa 14:13)
Nirky 2 years ago
Who said anything about keeping Sunday holy?
I don't. I just worship corporately on that day with other Christians.
The New Covenant Sabbath is a Person, not a day. Not Sunday, Saturday, Wednesday or any day.
You hold to the "ministry of death engraved on tablets of stone" and the "veil" can only be removed from you by Jesus. II Corinthians 3:7-18.
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago 2
I like how you mention the"veil". It seems SDA dont understand the simple symbolism of it.
holysaturnius 2 years ago
And as for John, well, he doesn't suscribe to your theory, because he tells us:
"I was in the Spirit on the Lords Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, saying, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last". Rev 1:10
The Lord has a Day according to John.
Nirky 2 years ago
I'm talking about the early Church in Palestine. There were some Gentile believers, but the vast bulk were JEWS, they followed the tradition handed down by Abraham, Moses, and all the Lord's prophets!
So where is Peter's explanation to them as to why the 4th Commandment, and the 4th Commandment ONLY, was not to be kept anymore?
Where is James'?
Where is John's?
Paul, well, scripture tells us he kept the 4th Commandment! Acts 17:2
Nirky 2 years ago
Of course they would have kept the Sabbath, they were under the Old Covenant at the time and it was the "Sign" of the Mosaic Covenant.
The New Testament is clear that the Old Covenant (Ten Commandments) is "obsolete", "fading away", "less glorious" and "old". Not sure what you're looking for but the NT is clear that the entire Old Covenant, as a whole, has expired.
We are to "cast it off" according to Paul in Gal 4:21-31.
Why do you continue to try and fit new wine into old windskins?
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago 2
I mean, think about this. If early Christians were more than willing to ignorantly keep cutting the foreskins of their sons, and as a result Paul had to write much about why that ceremonial law no longer applied to them, would they not also be keeping the weekly Sabbath, something that their grandfather's grandfather had done and nobody had ever done differently in their lives? And if your position were true, the apostles would have to all write TONS to explain the new truth?? Where is it?
Nirky 2 years ago
No, they would not be keeping the weekly Sabbath because they were Gentiles and the Sabbath was never given to them.
Judaizers came behind Paul and tried to get these Gentiles Christians to keep Moses and we have Paul's epistles to prove that those things were not to be binding on the Gentiles.
They were not to judge one another with regards to the Sabbath (Col. 2:16; Rom 14:5).
If it was an issue, why didn't Paul say so? Even the Jews agree the Sabbath wasn't given to the Gentiles.
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
Good point. I would think that eating "unclaean" meats is part of the Mosaic law. Is eating certain foods a cerimonial law aswell?
holysaturnius 2 years ago
That was established at the time of Noah. The clean from the unclean. unclean things can kill you and when knowingly eat the wrong foods, you are breaking the commandment of murder.When we look to Jesus, we wouldnt want to damage ourselves when He came to heal, thus the law is fulfilled as it is part of your life to give glory to God in your body
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
The NT is FORCEFUL when it comes to keeping the Sabbath. Jesus kept it, and expected His disciples to keep it after His death. Can you get any more forceful than that??
Nirky 2 years ago
Yes, of course Jesus kept the Sabbath.
He kept all the Jewish laws, because he was born under the law and kept it perfectly (Gal. 4:4; Heb. 4:15). He killed Passover lambs, tithed to the Levites, told cleansed people to make offerings commanded by Moses (Matt. 8:4), and he observed Hanukkah (John 10:22). He would have worn blue threads on his garments (Num. 15:38) and done a lot of other things that Christians arent required to imitate.
Do you do all those things because Jesus did them?
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
You're right . Jesus kept the fest adys, as well as other Jewish holidays such as Hanukah, which was is the Jewish celebration of the fulfullment of Dan 8.
holysaturnius 2 years ago
not so my friend. Daniel didnt even understand until Dan 9. The language you will get the answer. Dan 8 He didnt understand, Daniel 9 Gabriel came to give Him understanding. Gabriel gives a starting date and for the 70 weeks and the 2300 days. They are linked. They are not different prophecies.
The point in this is Gabriel gives Daniel the ending of Christ Ministry (Most Holy) and the Start (Outter court). The 70 weeks was given in understanding to explain the 2300 days
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
Yes so, The Jews consider Hanukah to be a celebration of the fulfulment of Dan 8. They thought so at the time of Christ, and Christ obseved this holiday as well. Dan 8 speaks of a little horn who was a a Greek power king, who would take away the daily sacrifice for 2300 evenings and mornings. It has nothing to do with Christ enetering the Most Holy of the Heavenly Sancturary. It deals with the earthly sacturary
holysaturnius 2 years ago 2
Why receive doctrine from a people who do not accept Christ?
Greece was taken from Pagan Rome. You are mixing the Prophecies because it talks as Daniel not understanding but yet He understood when Gabriel gave the understanding. 2300 days were prophetic days. If once a year, they were to go into the Most Holy, how is it that it is 2300 days when it should have been once a year? There is so much evidence. As Daniel and Rev are linked, if studied carefully, you'll see Dan 8 fulfilled in Rev 11:19
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
If it was deleted, it would be just about the biggest Biblical news ever! So where are the whole epistles explaining why a Commandment written amongst eternal laws was really temporary? Where is the LORD's explanation? God is not a God of hiding, but of open love! He wants us to know everything!
So where is Peter's explanation as to why the Sabbath was deleted?
Where is James'?
Where is John's?
Where is Paul's? It isn't anywhere in his writings, Paul kept the Sabbath! Acts 17:2
Nirky 2 years ago
It wasn't deleted, it was fulfilled. You continue to observe special days that were shadows that pointed to Christ.
Paul kept a feast day in Acts 18:21, what does that prove? Should we keep the feast days?
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
And yet the entire New Testament is silent when it comes to a command to keep the Sabbath. Not one time is it ever commanded.
Don't say it was assumed therefore it didn't need to be mentioned because murder is addressed...was that command not assumed? Why did it need to be mentioned? How about adultery? Why did it need to be mentioned.
The Sabbath was a shadow of the Substance. Praise God we are no longer holding shadows but get to embrace the Real Thing!
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
That a law which He gave for us, setting aside special time with our Creator, free of the hustle and bustle of this world and everyday life, allowing study, fellowship, and meditation on His word, drawing us closer to Him, is being attacked in this end time comes as no surprise.
God never said His way would be popular in this world, but the road less traveled is the right road to be on, because it leads to Jesus.
Nirky 2 years ago
That a law which gives us special time with our Creator, free of the hustle and bustle of this world and everyday life, allowing study, fellowship, and meditation on His word, drawing us closer to Him is being attacked in this end time is no surprise.
Nirky 2 years ago
The early Church had trouble understanding why circumciscion was no longer a part of their life. Paul had to write much about that ceremonial law being done away with.
Your theory of one of the eternal Ten Commandments being deleted leaving 9 Commandments would be one of the biggest stories in the Bible, ever!
We would undoubtedly see Peter, James, Paul, and John write endlessly to explain why one law was suddenly no longer for them. Yet, the Bible is silent on this.
Nirky 2 years ago
2) Have you noticed that the Sabbath is the first "holy" mentioned in Lev. 23 right along side all the other holy days are mentioned? It too was a shadow.
3) Paul was just following the same OT construction when he listed the annual, monthly and the weekly in Col. 2:16.
4) Remember if it's not the weekly Sabbath mentioned, then you have Paul saying: "Let no one judge in regard to festivals, new moons or festivals." Is a scholar such as Paul capable of such nonsense?
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
Nirky, thanks for addressing the text! A few observations:
1) Yes, the Old Covenant (10C's) is very clearly spoken of in Scripture as being "old" "obsolete" "fading away" and a "ministry of death" that is "less glorious" than the ministry of the Spirit. And remember that the 10C's are recorded in that book that was placed in the side of the Ark in Deut 31 that was "against us".
*cont*
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
Made a brief video concerning the word "Sabbaths" you got excited about in Col. 2:16, check it out.
Nirky 2 years ago
We have seen how Colossians 2 shows Christ blotting out the handwriting of ordinances which were against us.
We have seen that there were laws & ordinances, the book of the law, which were against us. We have seen that the new moon sabbath festivals with their meat & drink offerings were shadows of good things to come, which real substance is Christ.
These are the meanings of Col. 2:14-17. These verses don't show in any way that the weekly Sabbath of the Ten Commandments has been deleted.
Nirky 2 years ago
But of course the sabbath new moon festivals pointed forward to Christ's plan of salvation and deliverance from sin. They were shadows.
Nirky 2 years ago
Shadows, or types, were introduced because of sin and pointed forward to the deliverance from sin through Christ.
For example, lambs slain represented Jesus, the true Lamb, who would die for the sins of the world. If sin had not entered the world, there would have been no need of a Savior, and therefore, no lambs or shadows pointing to a Savior.
Sin did not exist in the world when the Sabbath was created, therefore it CANNOT be a shadow!
Nirky 2 years ago
Paul describes these laws as "shadows".
"So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME, but the substance is of Christ". Col. 2:16-17
"For the law, having a SHADOW OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect". Heb. 10:1
Paul says the yearly sacrificial laws were shadows!
Nirky 2 years ago
How do we know Paul here is talking about the ceremonial sabbaths and not the weekly Sabbath?
Those yearly "sabbaths" had meat & drink offerings associated with them, of course the weekly Sabbath of the Ten Commandments has none.
Nirky 2 years ago
The yearly new moon sabbath feast days are found in Leviticus 23.
"These are the feasts of the LORD, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times". verse 4
Passover
Days of Unleavened Bread
Feast of Firstfruits
Feast of Weeks (Pentecost)
Feast of Trumpets
Day of Atonement
Feast of Tabernacles
These are the "sabbaths" in Colossians 2:16.
Nirky 2 years ago
"And they slaughtered the Passover offerings, and the priests sprinkled the blood with their hands, while the Levites skinned the animals. Then they removed the burnt offerings that they might give them to the divisions of the fathers houses of the lay people, to offer to the LORD, as it is written in the BOOK OF MOSES. And so they did with the cattle.
Also they roasted the Passover offerings with fire according to the ORDINANCE" 2 Ch. 35:11-13
The new moon Passover feast was an ordinance!
Nirky 2 years ago
But what about these "ordinances"? Are these the Ten Commandments, or were they from the book of the law?
Nirky 2 years ago
"That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying, Take this book of the law, and put in the side of the ark, that it may be there for a witness against thee". Deut 31:25-26
The ceremonial laws were against us!
Nirky 2 years ago
First, we see that these "handwriting of ordinances" were against us.
Are the Ten Commandments described as being against us, or does it describe the ceremonial law-the book of the law-as being against us?
Nirky 2 years ago
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ." Colossians 2:14-17
Nirky 2 years ago
So let's look at your texts. You cited as proofs Romans 14:5-6, Galatians 4:10 and Colossians 2:16.
The first two texts don't even mention the word "Sabbath", so let's look at the one text that actually has the word "sabbaths" in it, Colossians 2:14-17.
Nirky 2 years ago
And we haven't even looked yet at your proofs to consider them. I just want you to think twice about what you are claiming, and see if it reconciles with what you know about the character of the Lord.
I see throughout His word that when God makes a change, He is so loving as to explain everything clearly by His prophets & apostles, and not just once, but often.
Nirky 2 years ago
If what you claim is true, this would be a huge truth! And yet you have cited only 3 "proof" scriptures, your best, two of which don't even mention the word "Sabbath" in them!
Doesn't that sound strange, a claim of a huge Biblical change with little, if anything, written about it? Doesn't that sound odd right off the bat? Doesn't that raise red flags in your mind? It does mine.
Nirky 2 years ago
Well to start with, you claim that one of God's laws, the Sabbath, and only one, which is in the middle of the 10 commandments, written on stone by the very finger of God, has now been deleted. You believe the command which began "Remember" is now to be forgotten.
In my mind, if this were true, it would be one of the biggest Bible stories ever, next to Jesus' first coming, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and Jesus' second coming. The deletion of a 10 commandment law would be momentous!
Nirky 2 years ago
Because you do realize the importance of what you are claiming, the magnitude of your claim, something so important I dare say behind Jesus' first coming, the second coming, and the outpouring of His Holy Spirit, nothing else in the Bible could be more important and need more explaining by His apostles more than deletion of one (and just one as you claim) of His laws written with His own finger on stone.
Nirky 2 years ago
Why are you so attached to the "ministry of death engraved on tablets of stone"? (II Cor. 3:7)
The two greatest commandments don't even appear on the stone tablets of the covenant.
The tablets were simply the suzerainty treaty between God and the Israelites. They are the Mosaic/Sinatic/Old Covenant.
They are not even a permenant group of commands. They appear as a unit only three times in Scripture and never as a unit in the NT.
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
The two greatest commandments are summed in the Ten Commandments. Love to God and love to man.
Ive read this before. Are you copying and pasting?
Why is it the ministry of Death? ONLY when it is broken
"For the WAGES of SIN is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23
The 10c itselt is good, holy as paul says. If you break them, they minister death. Line upon line
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
Can I take it by your lack of answering my question that the 3 "proof" scriptures you referenced earlier are the best ones which you believe show that God is telling us that a law written on stone amongst all His other eternal commandments is now deleted?
Are these 3 scriptures the best ones? If so then please tell me, we can look into them together.
Nirky 2 years ago
Let's address Col. 2:16. You have my position...your reply?
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
As for your question "Also, how can the Sabbath be "ETERNAL" when it was created?"
Well, God tells us that all who are in Christ will have eternal life, yet we are created and have a beginning point.
Nirky 2 years ago
We possess eternal life because God has given it to us.
You believe the Sabbath commandment has been around forever and is without beginning.
Those are very different.
Again, the Sabbath commandment is NOT eternal. It was "MADE" for "MAN". God doesn't keep it, nor do His angels.
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
Okay, in answer to my question, you believe then that those three texts you named provide the best "proof" that God has now deleted one, and only one, of His commandments?
Those 3 texts provide the bulk of the New Testament teachings which God gave to the apostles to show that one of His formerly eternal laws was really temporal, hidden in the middle of the true eternal laws?
I just want to understand this correctly, because you don't exactly respond to questions in a straightforward manner.
Nirky 2 years ago
Absolutely.
Yet, you won't discuss them in detail will you?
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
Can I assume then since you cannot produce the clear teachings from scripture where God now shows us that He has deleted one of His formerly eternal laws and that there are really now 9 commandments, the best evidence you have as "proof" texts are those 3 that you used earlier?
Nirky 2 years ago
Can I assume then that you are not willing to take the texts I provided piece by piece. There's still an opportunity to respond to Colossians 2:16.
Also, how can the Sabbath be "ETERNAL" when it was created? It was "made for man". Something that is eternal has no beginning or end.
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
1) The word for Sabbath in Colossians 2:16 is the SAME word in Exodus 20:8-11.
Words don't change meaning. e.g. Lets use the word "sheep"
I have black sheep
You have white sheep
Is there a difference or is it the same? It is the same but if you READ ON you will see there is a difference in colour.
The Same with the Sabbath. The word is the same and has the same meaning but Sabbath DAYS is different from DAY.
Days is more than one. Lev 23 talks about MANY Sabbath dayS
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
2) Did you know that everything done without faith is "sin"? Romans 14:23
Exactly. Thats why I keep the Sabbath day
"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day:"
Thats why I keep it. It is by faith that the Christ is CREATOR of Heaven and Earth.
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
Mark 2 Heb 4 Rev 14 - not commanded in the NT?
Heb 4 especially. There REMAINS a Sabbath keeping to the people of God. A Rest, not there remains rest but A Rest
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
Are you telling me there's a command to keep the Sabbath in those texts?
C'mon Jon.
Mark 2 - No command to observe and keep holy the Sabbath day.
Hebrews 4 - "Sabbatismos" is a sabbath-like rest we enter into "today" Hebrews 4:7. It is not Israel's Sabbath which was entered into once a week.
Rev 14 - Have you ever done that study on John's usage of "commandments" and "Law"? John is not referring to the 10C's otherwise he would have used "nomos" instead of "entole".
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
ofcourse but if your not studying the Bble line upon line, but only with concordance how will you be able to study the Bible at all?
Jondadon2006 2 years ago
What in the next chapter proves that it's not talking about the Sabbath?
Hawgdawgrain 2 years ago
You didn't address the text I supplied from Deut 5:15. Here it is:
"REMEMBER that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. THEREFORE the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day."
Now, here's a very simple question. Please answer it.
Why were they commanded to keep the Sabbath?
Hawgdawgra