SteveWright NZ .... as we've come to expect from 'pilots' from New Zealand this is VERY DANGEROUS advice!!!
Anyone who thinks you can 'walk towards' a PG in winds Greater than TWENTY Knots needs to undertake PROPER Aviation Training!
Adding More A's is NOT safe advice of course!
CD's 'steering' is Dangerous beyone belief!
With the sort of stupidity in Steve from NZ's 'advice' it hardly a suprise we keep seeing visiting NZ pilots getting injured in what we find to be easy conditions!
I have never seen that method of pulling lines in to grab your wing. That saves me a lot of hassle of trying to drag my wing by the D's in the sand at the local beach. Dont ask why I never thought of that ! :-)
A couple of times (when I move into wind) it may have dropped as low as 8m/s... most of the time I would say it's about trim speed (20kts) to several knots above trim...
14m/s = 27kts and I doubt it quite reached that speed....
Hi 1Pots I'd love to go back to where I was born, for a 'flying holiday', but not likely to get the chance, due to UK/Europe commitments, for at least the next 10 years :-(
In strong conditions it is a very 'good' way to end up in hospital (or worse) there are numerous problems/dangers with 'Mitos' (as it is often called).
NB. It is popular in Aus & NZ... I have personaly witnessed a number of accidents (by luck only resulting in minor injuries...) due to this 'method'..
Mitos works fairly well in light breezes if the pilot does not mind a significant reduction in control authority...
Summary: I STRONGLY advise pilots to stop using A's & C's in this way!
So as I understood, safe (DHV 1-2) wings are bad on high wind ground handling, but are safe. And competition (2-3) wings are good on the ground, but more dangerous in the air. Is that it?
Mmmm a 'qualified' yes... 'Safe' wings (the old DHV testing) are tested to see how well they will RECOVER with no (or little) pilot input, they also are required to have long(ish) brake travel etc.... due to a combination of factors the pilots (both in the air & on the ground) is more 'out of the loop'..
As a result 'high' rated wings have the POTENTIAL to be far safer than 'low' wings. BUT do of course REQUIRE pilot input at all times, even if that input is doing almost nothing (TINY inputs)
What makes the Mitos method more dangerous than you failing to control the surge at 2:30 in the video and having the wing frontal or being lifted when the wing suddenly rises and then dumped on your back at 3:30 in the video? In both if you had controlled the speed the wing rose above at you would have not have lost control.
Mitos (in winds notiably less than the winds seen here) becomes dangerous as it removes almost all harness lateral control.. this is as BOTH A's are in one had & BOTH C's being in the other hand... in additon the 'Kill' risers (C's) are pulled with ONLY one hand, and there is therefore a built in tendency towards aysemmetry (your are is attatched to ONE side of your body!
Mitos also (as seen in many clips) is a very crude way of 'controling' the wing and inherently results in more drag!
As previously mentioned: In Stronger winds (but still 'reasonable' & flyable) I have seen more incidents & accidents CAUSED by the safety/control issues inherent with 'Mitos' that with any other launch method.
Yesterday being a case in point, if the pilot had (as there is plenty of space to do so) set up just a bit further to his right instead of 'just' ending up dragged & dumped on to the path he would have been into the fence.
For me conditions were VERY easy on both the '2/3' & '1-2'!
Ref: '2:30'.... With no drag/no lift off the ground & dump (often seen with Mitos) and in fact no danger, you think is 'failing to control the surge and 'dangerous'?????
In conditions that are easy on a comp or DHV 2/3 wing a 'low' wing will occasionaly overshoot and 'frontal' the trick is that if it is going to do this let it instead of fighting it.. Safety Risers (one in each hand) then CONTROL the drop with ZERO drag!
NB a A's induced 'frontal' is a handy trick on tandem/windy landings.
Try using A's and C's to launch. Putting pressure on the c's brakes the gliders back span wise stoping it generating aerodynamic lift, will cause drag though. You can control the surge with no need to lie down, the only way i launch in strong winds.
A's & C's .... otherwise know as 'Mitos'... not in a thousand years would I be stupid enough to take your 'advice'..
This afternoon I watched yet another BHPA pilot struggle to control his wing using this dangerously flawed 'method', the result yet another VERY close call with the 'pilot' very close to ending up with broken bones..
When it was far stronger & gusty... both with my Vertex and also on Ian's Rookie I was making 100% controled launches and landings!
NOTE: Over the last ten years I have witnessed more BHPA (and Aus/NZ trained) 'pilots' injured due to using 'Mitos' than with any other launch method.
RE-training BHPA 'CP' students are STRONGLY advise to stop using 'Mitos' in their general flying and of course are banned from using it at most of our sites except in the easiest of conditions.
I made no mention of the BHPA and I wasnt taught it during my BHPA training. Its something i worked out for myself drawing from my sailplane, PPL and paraglider training. I use it all the time if the winds are high. Works perfectly and gives you 100% control over the wing. You can kill lift instantly using that method. Just using the brake will result in lifting and dragging in strong winds.
100% control.... perhaps you should try telling that to ALL the pilots who have already ended up in hospital because the were foolish enough to use 'Mitos'..
By the way I agree with your comment regarding brakes... which is why I have been teaching training & RE-training pilots for ten years NOT to 'use brakes'...
As you can see in the clip (should you fact watch it!) I NEVER (except when demoing the risks!) 'use brakes'.
Remember 'Mitos' only becomes VERY dangerous in STRONG winds!
"Remember 'Mitos' only becomes VERY dangerous in STRONG winds!"
100% dont agree! I have never been dragged or lifted involuntarily since I started using this method. It gives you TOTAL CONTROL over the wing and a quick way to kill it if needs be. Perhaps it could be classed as an advanced method for pilots capable of using it but it cant be classed as dangerous fall all.
As I pointed out in reaonable winds Mitos is not very dangerous (it is still not very good...)
A method is dangerous if it RESULTS in accidents!
As I mentioned (THIS INCLUDES TODAY) I've witnessed more launch accidents directly due to use of 'Mitos' than any other method... this is including amoung pilots who fly in comps (One Dutch 'Mitos' accident pilot was the ex-champ pilot!)
Why use the technique at all in light winds, stupid comment? Just pull up the wing as normal? Dont you think comp pilots get hurt using this technique because they takeing more chances in very strong winds to get airborn. They couldnt launch using any other methods. The accidents you claim, if accurate, are probably due to the conditions rather than the technique.
Re: 'Stupid comment'... it may help you if you read what was written, I pointed out that 'Mitos' is only dangerous in STRONG conditions, in reasonable (or light) conditions while still not a great method it's not too bad.
Nope the pilots were having incidents/accidents in conditions that were in general (using a FARb safer launch method) fairly easy!
You will NEVER get me to risk my life by using Mitos in trully strong winds, of course your life is your own to risk!
Hi, as a general rule ground handling (and flying) in high winds (around the 20 or more Kts mark) is both easier and safer with 'high' DHV rated wings, for a number of reasons they (comp/DHV 2/3) are easier to handle that the DHV 1-2 wing shown here.
HOWEVER high rated wings are a LOT less forgiving of any pilot errors!
NB I've quite a number of YouTube clips made in FAR stronger conditions on my Vertex(s) which show just how much easier those wings are to 'kill'.
Yep, personaly I am not a fan of modern DHV 1 or 1/2 wings mind you I was blasting around the sky today for a while doing demo flights on Ian's Rookie... (about to start editing of that stuff)
Yup, that's my wing. The higher end Ozone Rush DHV1/2 performance, unlike the the Ozone Buzz low end DHV1/2...Mine was still very low performance for Murrays flying skills LOL The mans a buddha of the air :)
Comment removed
SteveWrightNZ 8 months ago
SteveWright NZ .... as we've come to expect from 'pilots' from New Zealand this is VERY DANGEROUS advice!!!
Anyone who thinks you can 'walk towards' a PG in winds Greater than TWENTY Knots needs to undertake PROPER Aviation Training!
Adding More A's is NOT safe advice of course!
CD's 'steering' is Dangerous beyone belief!
With the sort of stupidity in Steve from NZ's 'advice' it hardly a suprise we keep seeing visiting NZ pilots getting injured in what we find to be easy conditions!
murrayhay 8 months ago
I have never seen that method of pulling lines in to grab your wing. That saves me a lot of hassle of trying to drag my wing by the D's in the sand at the local beach. Dont ask why I never thought of that ! :-)
bchokola 1 year ago
what you have there is a big ass power kite
BigKiteFlyer 2 years ago
Hi Murray, can u aproximate the wind speed here, i think is about 10 to peak14m/s , i'm right?
HotGaSoLine 2 years ago
A couple of times (when I move into wind) it may have dropped as low as 8m/s... most of the time I would say it's about trim speed (20kts) to several knots above trim...
14m/s = 27kts and I doubt it quite reached that speed....
murrayhay 2 years ago
why is there a kenya flag there?
1Pots 2 years ago
Hi Pots, that where I was born :-)
murrayhay 2 years ago
@murrayhay dude we freefly kenya come and visit
1Pots 11 months ago
Hi 1Pots I'd love to go back to where I was born, for a 'flying holiday', but not likely to get the chance, due to UK/Europe commitments, for at least the next 10 years :-(
murrayhay 11 months ago
A few days ago i was shown a new way to raise up the glider. The method was to hold both A risers in my right hand and C risers in my left hand.
Have you tried this method and if so what do you think?
iftyshifty 3 years ago
In strong conditions it is a very 'good' way to end up in hospital (or worse) there are numerous problems/dangers with 'Mitos' (as it is often called).
NB. It is popular in Aus & NZ... I have personaly witnessed a number of accidents (by luck only resulting in minor injuries...) due to this 'method'..
Mitos works fairly well in light breezes if the pilot does not mind a significant reduction in control authority...
Summary: I STRONGLY advise pilots to stop using A's & C's in this way!
murrayhay 3 years ago
SAFETY ADVISORY NOTE:
If pilots do (AGAINST MY ADVICE!) wish to continue to use Mitos they need to consider the issues with pilot right/left handedness...
Right handed pilots (i.e. about 9 out of 10) Should have the C's IN THEIR RIGHT HAND.... (Left handed = C's in left hand)
Reason: Your dominant hand should be kept for the part of the wing (C or D risers) best suited to 'Kill' the wing!!!!
murrayhay 3 years ago
So as I understood, safe (DHV 1-2) wings are bad on high wind ground handling, but are safe. And competition (2-3) wings are good on the ground, but more dangerous in the air. Is that it?
ParaglidingManiac 3 years ago
Mmmm a 'qualified' yes... 'Safe' wings (the old DHV testing) are tested to see how well they will RECOVER with no (or little) pilot input, they also are required to have long(ish) brake travel etc.... due to a combination of factors the pilots (both in the air & on the ground) is more 'out of the loop'..
As a result 'high' rated wings have the POTENTIAL to be far safer than 'low' wings. BUT do of course REQUIRE pilot input at all times, even if that input is doing almost nothing (TINY inputs)
murrayhay 3 years ago
What makes the Mitos method more dangerous than you failing to control the surge at 2:30 in the video and having the wing frontal or being lifted when the wing suddenly rises and then dumped on your back at 3:30 in the video? In both if you had controlled the speed the wing rose above at you would have not have lost control.
billswizz 3 years ago
Mitos (in winds notiably less than the winds seen here) becomes dangerous as it removes almost all harness lateral control.. this is as BOTH A's are in one had & BOTH C's being in the other hand... in additon the 'Kill' risers (C's) are pulled with ONLY one hand, and there is therefore a built in tendency towards aysemmetry (your are is attatched to ONE side of your body!
Mitos also (as seen in many clips) is a very crude way of 'controling' the wing and inherently results in more drag!
murrayhay 3 years ago
As previously mentioned: In Stronger winds (but still 'reasonable' & flyable) I have seen more incidents & accidents CAUSED by the safety/control issues inherent with 'Mitos' that with any other launch method.
Yesterday being a case in point, if the pilot had (as there is plenty of space to do so) set up just a bit further to his right instead of 'just' ending up dragged & dumped on to the path he would have been into the fence.
For me conditions were VERY easy on both the '2/3' & '1-2'!
murrayhay 3 years ago
Ref: '2:30'.... With no drag/no lift off the ground & dump (often seen with Mitos) and in fact no danger, you think is 'failing to control the surge and 'dangerous'?????
In conditions that are easy on a comp or DHV 2/3 wing a 'low' wing will occasionaly overshoot and 'frontal' the trick is that if it is going to do this let it instead of fighting it.. Safety Risers (one in each hand) then CONTROL the drop with ZERO drag!
NB a A's induced 'frontal' is a handy trick on tandem/windy landings.
murrayhay 3 years ago
Try using A's and C's to launch. Putting pressure on the c's brakes the gliders back span wise stoping it generating aerodynamic lift, will cause drag though. You can control the surge with no need to lie down, the only way i launch in strong winds.
0eden0 3 years ago
A's & C's .... otherwise know as 'Mitos'... not in a thousand years would I be stupid enough to take your 'advice'..
This afternoon I watched yet another BHPA pilot struggle to control his wing using this dangerously flawed 'method', the result yet another VERY close call with the 'pilot' very close to ending up with broken bones..
When it was far stronger & gusty... both with my Vertex and also on Ian's Rookie I was making 100% controled launches and landings!
murrayhay 3 years ago
NOTE: Over the last ten years I have witnessed more BHPA (and Aus/NZ trained) 'pilots' injured due to using 'Mitos' than with any other launch method.
RE-training BHPA 'CP' students are STRONGLY advise to stop using 'Mitos' in their general flying and of course are banned from using it at most of our sites except in the easiest of conditions.
murrayhay 3 years ago
I made no mention of the BHPA and I wasnt taught it during my BHPA training. Its something i worked out for myself drawing from my sailplane, PPL and paraglider training. I use it all the time if the winds are high. Works perfectly and gives you 100% control over the wing. You can kill lift instantly using that method. Just using the brake will result in lifting and dragging in strong winds.
0eden0 3 years ago
100% control.... perhaps you should try telling that to ALL the pilots who have already ended up in hospital because the were foolish enough to use 'Mitos'..
By the way I agree with your comment regarding brakes... which is why I have been teaching training & RE-training pilots for ten years NOT to 'use brakes'...
As you can see in the clip (should you fact watch it!) I NEVER (except when demoing the risks!) 'use brakes'.
Remember 'Mitos' only becomes VERY dangerous in STRONG winds!
murrayhay 3 years ago
"Remember 'Mitos' only becomes VERY dangerous in STRONG winds!"
100% dont agree! I have never been dragged or lifted involuntarily since I started using this method. It gives you TOTAL CONTROL over the wing and a quick way to kill it if needs be. Perhaps it could be classed as an advanced method for pilots capable of using it but it cant be classed as dangerous fall all.
0eden0 3 years ago
As I pointed out in reaonable winds Mitos is not very dangerous (it is still not very good...)
A method is dangerous if it RESULTS in accidents!
As I mentioned (THIS INCLUDES TODAY) I've witnessed more launch accidents directly due to use of 'Mitos' than any other method... this is including amoung pilots who fly in comps (One Dutch 'Mitos' accident pilot was the ex-champ pilot!)
murrayhay 3 years ago
Why use the technique at all in light winds, stupid comment? Just pull up the wing as normal? Dont you think comp pilots get hurt using this technique because they takeing more chances in very strong winds to get airborn. They couldnt launch using any other methods. The accidents you claim, if accurate, are probably due to the conditions rather than the technique.
0eden0 3 years ago
Re: 'Stupid comment'... it may help you if you read what was written, I pointed out that 'Mitos' is only dangerous in STRONG conditions, in reasonable (or light) conditions while still not a great method it's not too bad.
Nope the pilots were having incidents/accidents in conditions that were in general (using a FARb safer launch method) fairly easy!
You will NEVER get me to risk my life by using Mitos in trully strong winds, of course your life is your own to risk!
murrayhay 3 years ago
How to understand this low-high DHV wing? What is the difference on the ground with it?
ParaglidingManiac 3 years ago
Hi, as a general rule ground handling (and flying) in high winds (around the 20 or more Kts mark) is both easier and safer with 'high' DHV rated wings, for a number of reasons they (comp/DHV 2/3) are easier to handle that the DHV 1-2 wing shown here.
HOWEVER high rated wings are a LOT less forgiving of any pilot errors!
NB I've quite a number of YouTube clips made in FAR stronger conditions on my Vertex(s) which show just how much easier those wings are to 'kill'.
murrayhay 3 years ago
is that Ozone rush?
dhv1-2
hghazoly 3 years ago
Yep, personaly I am not a fan of modern DHV 1 or 1/2 wings mind you I was blasting around the sky today for a while doing demo flights on Ian's Rookie... (about to start editing of that stuff)
murrayhay 3 years ago
Yup, that's my wing. The higher end Ozone Rush DHV1/2 performance, unlike the the Ozone Buzz low end DHV1/2...Mine was still very low performance for Murrays flying skills LOL The mans a buddha of the air :)
FegrusMojo 3 years ago