Water4Fuel #12 Hydrogen Gas - Cell Explosion

[odv000]

Use different collecting system for oxygen and hydrogen.

Anything else can and will explode.

[diyufire]

don't use copper wires in the reaction chamber it will cause a bomb only use stainless steel.

[normdoty]

hello

i hope your checking this.

goto a welding supply center they sell flashback protectors in pairs for a very reasonable price.

use the one for fuel gas, not the one for oxygen.

it has reverse threads so get all the fittings you need before you leave the welding supplier.

in industry all fuel fittings are reverse threads so they cant be confused with the oxidizer.

norm

[alfabrovo]

I had a similar experience I tried to light the output of my bubbler. But in my case it ignited and the flame went down the aluminum tube. About 5 seconds later I noticed that the tube started to smoke. I knew exactly what was happening so I ducked and I had an explosion. I had a rubber gasket on the bubbler and a 5/8" thick acrylic top plate lucky only the gasket blew out and the gar did not shatter. I ended up mounting springs under the bolts that hold down the plate so it has some give.

[1922modelt]

Why doesn't anything ever burn or have scorch marks. If you look close at your contaners you will see that they are mostly broken in rather than exploded, implode is hard to understand. I placed my generator on a table which had 6" of ice and 6" of snow when I imploded it and melted a near perfect 18" circle faster than the speed of sight and my generator fell to the table. Only the 3/8" hose barb went 1/2 a block.

[1922modelt]

You are also stoping a electrial charge hard to make a filter for that

[ed6ontube]

where did you get the box with the bolts from? did you build the capacitors yourself, or where did you get them from?

why don't propane torches backflash and explode like your hho torch did? what is it that makes it backflash? why don't chemistry lab torches backflash and explode?

[alfabrovo]

Propane torch nozzles are designed to have air mix with the propane once it leaves the bottle. The reason hho blows up is because it mixes with air in the top of the bubbler and is very explosive so you have hho/air mix coming out which will flash back if you light it. If you have sufficient pressure it will burn like a torch but once you looses that pressure it can flash back again.

[BrocWorst]

Alright, Ive been hearing about this water4fuel and hho generator stuff alot lately and am very interested.Can anyone send me a link to some plans to build one or to a site that has in depth info and explanations. Thanks a million.

[Nic7320]

They sell bronze wool at marine supply and boating stores.

[flipster12000]

Hey Kevin, good design on the arrestor use fine bronze wool that is wet pack it in very tightly. You can get fine bronze wool at marine retailers (i.e. Boat retailers). By the way, I love your latest resonant circuit design easily repeatable from throw-away microwave oven capacitors and inductors. Great web site! Very informative. I'm building a replication as we speak.

[urnotforgottenPOW]

stay away from glass bad idea. makeing a torch you need at least three bubllers and 4 one way valves.

[billy17345]

nirk not so it works been using on car and tractor straight hydro havent had issue yet

[drocketman2000]

Since the hydroxy mix burns so quickly, no mechanical check valve that I know of will be able to shut fast enough. You need to get rid of that heat of combustion in order to stop the flame propagation back to the source. That is why bronze wool (an alloy of copper and tin) is used. Old miner's lamps used the same idea to contain the acetylene flame in the reflector.

[bennytan777]

you are like a broken record!

go away

[Nirklars]

HYDROGEN CAN NOT BE FOUND NATURALLY AND IS NOT FINANCIALLY PROFITABLE.

In order to run on Hydrogen, you first need to separate it from oxygen. This process is called electrolysis and uses VAST AMOUNTS OF ELECTRICITY. Electricity that comes from, (guess what) coal, oil and nuclear power.

The only way to make a Hydrogen economy is through new more efficient nuclear power and maybe even FUSION power plants.

Before that is possible, Hydrogen is only an energy carrier. A VERY EXPENSIVE BATTERY.

[homedog100023]

O uah I know berons woul

NOT REALLY

[67Metalhead]

you needed that to give hydrogen respect??

does the Hindenburg ring a bell?!

i had my first cell (a glass pickle jar)

blow up in my face like a grenade.

luckily i wasn't hurt....i wasn't using a bubbler at the time.

but now i use plastic containers.

i've never needed a flash back arrestor once i perfected my bubbler design but i have had my bubbler pop every now and then, but i used a pop off lid just for that purpose.

[bennytan777]

no hindenburg doesn't ring a bell, because why it failed and got burned has nothing to do with hydrogen.

[johncartelli]

flash back arresters can be purchased for gas torches at a welding shop..and they are designed for gas....

[eugenenav]

Bronze wool.. West Marine

[bradpage3000]

use pcv valve off car

it is a check valve for gas

[bradpage3000]

use a gas regulator like off a small gas grill

it has built in gas arrest and pressure regulator

use manometer to measure pressure

[gcstop]

try a marine supply (boat) dealer.

[tolishel]

oops, someone already said that. (about the welding supply)

[tolishel]

At a welding supply u can probably find an one way valve (exposion proof) actually this is what they are made for, not to flash back.

[lysergicaddict]

has to be bronze wool not steel wool?

[billwixom]

what dont work

[billwixom]

at your local welding supply store purchase a flash supressor for a cutting tourch, but they are only sold in pairs and are about $70.00 us dollars.

[0ddba11s]

I have just had to order bronze wool from the USA on ebay to the UK loads of postage cost but what the hell it works.

[KyHydro]

I had the same container blow on me.  Mine was in very small pieces, yours are big! Good thing is your still here and experimenting.

Keep at it bro!

[amillionemails]

You can get my flash back arrestor at ebay item :250259467598 mine has been tested and works perfect. Problem is, you don't use stones. You need to know what your doing. Or search for "Hydrogen Fuel Cell Back Flash Arrestor Valve" on ebay.

[jamesrgodfrey]

the reason it exploded was because you have the perfert mixture of oxygen and hydrogen. if i were you i would redesign your product to mix the gas at the tip of your tourch just like a oxy_aceiline torch works.

[pjdambra]

Why not use a simple check valve?? A standard PCV valve should work..

[Truth2Wealth]

They don't work

[panton65]

Try a one way valve on the bubbler

[TheCopilot91]

I was thinking the same thing, would that protect the bubbler and thus the generator?

[water4fuelnow]

Go ahead and watch my video...Just click on my name and it will take you there.

[Truth2Wealth]

Nice name, can you say copy cat

[cribcat1]

Fuelmeupwithwater That is so funny it made me laugh

[0U8123MTA3]

Nice video. Is there a reason why aluminum or copper wool should not be used instead of brass wool?

Copper has the best thermo conductivity and copper wool can be purchased at briwax-online. com/GMTCopper. html

Aluminum wool also has a higher thermo conductivity than brass wool.

engineeringtoolbox. com/thermal-conductivity-dUNDE­RSCORE429. html

Page eight of w w w . fire. tc. faa. gov/pdf/TN05-37. pdf describes flammability of metal wools.

[Fuelmeupwithwater]

I know EXACTLY what you went through. Not 2 hours ago, I blew up my bubbler. My ear hurts so bad still. Cops are circling the block, looking for someone dead. Low pressure in the bubbler, yet shrapnel is stuck in the celing! The Shock Wave Knocked Me Down! I forgot to water my torch... bad bad

[audiegates]

This experience teaches me to make only the amount you presently need/or store it in a tank immediately and don't let the pressure keep building. Thanks for the lesson!

[HHOhybridBuilder]

Install a check valve between the bubbler and the main cell.

[newagemotor]

Spark arrestors are available at your local welding shop. Tell them it is specifically for hydrogen gas. They supply hydrogen gas in tanks too. They will have everything you will need. Don't forget to tell them the pressure you will be needing the arrestor for.

[cribcat1]

Good point. What are flashback arrestors made of? Do they have valves? Hydrogen and oxy burn way fast you need more of a reed valve like in a two stroke.

[RickPacker]

Could you use a tiny Foot Valve?

[cribcat1]

p.s. Thanks for all the good work. You are saving me so much time. I'm hesitantly hooking up my welder with a stainless tub and a single plate. DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!!!!!!

[cribcat1]

Theres a guy that uses bronze wool that is whetted with water. Another guy uses a cigarette filter. Check out zff for his great Idea of a safety membrane(plastic bag) which is still loud but it will save the cell container.

[IXoDid2]

Cool. Same thing happened to me. First time trying...learned my lesson. Nice to see someone show others the what could happen, because my ears were ringing for quite a while after wards, and I'm glad I didn't have cops pull up Ha2. But this is a cool technology and it looks like it's only going to get better!!

[Ibuxx]

why not just bye one?

[ihavebeenawakened]

Been there done that! LOL! We had to see if it was hydrogen we were making. Well, we found out alright! Luckily, everyone o.k. but felt like Willie E. Coyote and never laughed so hard in my life!!!!

Keep up the good work!

[cribcat1]

You have a perfect mixture of oxygen and hydrogen in the same chamber. Any flame or spark will ignite the explosive gas mixture even in the tube running to the bubblers. You may have to separate the plates and put the output of the gases in separate chambers and combine them at the torch like oxy acetylene. You may also be able to design a better bubbler. It seems like the bubbler would have to be right at the base of the torch and have a safety valve to be of any use.

[wuminnoname]

Could it be that you have too big bubbles and they are all almost joined together? When the gas flow at the nozzle is less than certain speed, you would get a flashback. This could have explained the explosion in your bubbler container. Then the closely joined bubbles facilitates the flashback into your big hydrogen cell.

[pf1960]

What you could do is purchase some actual Flashback arrestors at a welding supply company they should work just fine!

[binder416]

No! welding flash suppressors will not work. Acetylene flame is many powers of magnitude slower than HHO flame. HHO's falme front travels at over machIII.Typical flash supressors do nothing. I earned a set of bleeding ears myself with welding supressors.

[hopeitshappy]

i use filter tips for cigarettes roll your own ones

check out my videos u should use a real blow torch for this use a thick copper one cos them need to sink some heat and a small needle gets v hot

[zeropointprophet]

could you run dual bubblers? for safty

hydroxy is some powerfull stuff!!

[funwithjamess]

I bought bronze wool at ace hardware but I understand you can get it at any place that sells boats and parts for boats

[MIKEandNADIA]

Bronze wool is used insted of steel wool in the marine world because steel wool rusts very quickle someones found bronze wool in the top of a magnitron the square thing inside a microwave oven.

[mikeyidh]

The cores I make are tested to withstand a back fire. Make a pressure relief valve. Also its not called hydrogen. HHO is hydroxy gas.

[growlo2]

Use a cigar filter or such as close to your troch as possible!

[mediumpimpn]

Try a needle valve.

[MaxxxLogan]

I would also make the generator out of heavy gauge stainless steel. Something that would need well over 10,000 psi pressure to rapture. MUST HAVE PRESSURE RELIEF OR TWO.

[MaxxxLogan]

One other thing, your need to use positive pressure on the fuel generator. have a pressure blow off on it set to 10 psi, a gauge, and a small reg to regulate at 5psi. In case of flash back, the hydrogen will tends for force the flame out of the system. In case of total failure you have the blow off safety to releave the pressure which you can vent to a safe location. Very dangerous to run with no pressure, LPG is also most dangerous at near zero pressure, that is why they have flash arrestors.

[MaxxxLogan]

use an low pressure LPG flash arrestor.........or mod a high pressure unit..

[thelectriccompany]

Ok dude

First NEVER EVER EVER use a glass container for a hydroxy project You are making a glass shrapnel bomb. Use plastic and a pop off valve or make the top so it is pressure fit with an O ring. Keep the volume as small as can be practical above the water line. Use a bubbler or two in line this will save your cell and pop the top off your bubbler. BE CARFUL.

[bcoulal]

I have an idea. Why don't you use a BOV(blow off valve) concept? Like the BOV for a turbo charged system it relieves compressed air into the atmosphere from the intercooled system this BOV concept can release the hydrogen into the atmosphere at a certain pressure point if it ever does ignite.

[bcoulal]

Our Sun runs on Hydrogen why can't our Automobiles? Go figure eh?

[michelemaxmax]

I use a cigarette filter as a flash back and it works perfect.

[map250r]

Reduce the gas volume as much as possible, if it does explode there won't be as much increase, the lid might be able to bulge and contain it. Also add a shock absorber or a pressure relief.

A simple shock absorber: Put a tee in the line, with a heavy baloon on the tee. Overpressure will cause the baloon to inflate.

(continued)

[map250r]

I'm not sure a standard pressure relief would open at low enough pressure, or let enough gas out. Only thing I can think of is to put a hole in the box and epoxy aluminum foil over it. It would have to be replaced every time it blew but you wouldn't break your stuff.

[NeeAnderTall]

The Flash arrestor I used was from one of my favorite Catalogues in the whole world. McMaster Carr. They are online.

Flashback Arresters are searchable under the welding chapters.

My other favorite catalogue is Omega Engineering if you can afford the instrumentation.

[electrogravitic]

Hydrogen flashes 4000 times quicker than convensional fuel, try two o three bubblers!!!

[baw1baw]

P.S. I think your torch hole may be too big for your gas volume. I saw a flash back made of steel wool stuffed in a plastic 1.25l bottle,it worked but got destroyed in the process.

[baw1baw]

I know this sound of which you speak. Yes it's loud. I was bubbling some gas into a glass vase and went to light a bubble, my kitten ran over and bumped my hand as I lit the bubble and between us we managed to lift the hose out of the water...blammo, new land speed record for the kitten. No injury, no damage, cell destruction tested and passed. Respect is strongly indicated.

[ising4jesus]

Bubbler improvemnt will help.

Other safety precautions should be taken:

A mechanical pressure relief valve on the cell. If a back flash occurs, it will blow the valve and vent the gas.

1-way valve for the gas going from the cell, and from the bubbler to the engine.

Pressure activated switch to shut off the electrolyzer when the cell reaches your normal maximum pressure. (Somewhat under the "over-pressure" value of the relief valve.)

[harpersteven]

must have been some BANG

[pitbike2006]

what is the name of them brass thing for the tube so it can connect to the cell

[water4fuel]

They are called hose barbs mine are 3/8" thread 1/4" barb

[pitbike2006]

ok thanks

[ising4jesus]

In addition to barbs, some manufacturers also refer to them as "nipples". I'm using the same size on mine too. (3/8" pipe thread, 1/4" nipple)

[MARKFALLEN]

Im using the same box with 16 plates and had the same thing happen to me. My problem was that my internal wires got to hot and set the gas off inside the cell. Keep up the good work.

Thanks Mark

[pitbike2006]

i have made the video

[pitbike2006]

hey waterforfule i will make a video of an bubbler i have got and its the same container as yours but it is really good i will make the video in a min

[dulcajack]

Thanks for sharing this unfortunate incident with us. It helps remind us all of how dangerous this stuff can be. Great Video!

Jack

[h2opower]

Good to hear everyone is okay, but Stanley Meyer patent has the designs for his falshback protection in the Tech breif, take a look at it for it is not all the hard too make, and then you can transport hydrogen safly. Hydrogen is great stuff, huh? Nice and powerfull.

[coquivagabundo]

wate4fuel

its good to hear that everyone is ok. now

whats wrong with a pop off bubbler? if your cell had a pop off devive that would had been it. plug it back again and off you go. beats the heck out of replacing everything.

[water4fuel]

Sounds good what is the design.

[coquivagabundo]

just a piece of PVC pipe with a rubber end cap tight enough to prevent leaks and loose enough that it will pop out if a backfire ocurrs, only prob is that you need to get off the car and replug it everytime you get a backfire exp.

[coquivagabundo]

look at carbidetip vids he is showing one there

[pitbike2006]

whats the name of the box and where can i get one i really want one do u get them from radioshack

[water4fuel]

It is a conduit box from Home Depot in the electrical dept. This one is 8" x 8" but I think my next one will be a 6" x 6".

[pitbike2006]

ok thanks but i live in the UK so i will find a way of geting my hands on one thanks

:-)

[goney3]

Dude you're lucky to be alive...great video and very informative. I look forward to the next make. Stay safe!

[sirHOAX]

Be careful building up pressure in a cell. If it builds up more than 5psi in the plastic enclosure the different metals in the connectors, wire, and plates can cause explosion.

If you want a flash-back arrestor use fine bronze wool. They use it on woods, chrome metals for sanding in boating applications.

Powerful stuff we have here. Be careful..

[water4fuel]

Don't think it was the pressure, it was my poor design on the bubbler that caused the flash back to the cell. But I will change out the wires for stainless bars thanks for the heads up.