Sam Harris' own unfalsifiable thesis: There is no intelligent creator because any intelligent creator would have created in a way that is readily comprehensible, plausible and recognizable from a human point of view.
Once Harris asserts that anyone is born in a place "by accident," he tips his hand in his own favor. He has already excluded the idea of a God big enough, sovereign enough, to preside over such things. (c.f. Acts 17:26) Of course whatever god he is left with will be too feeble.
[Is there a possibility] of a creator? There is a possibility of course. Just as there is a possibility of an infinite number of things. Knowledge and reason is the safest and fairest route of understanding our existence.
Exactly what I think. Christians say one thing. Muslims say another, and so does every Religion, and Atheists. Which do you choose? By the way; whats the definition of Murphy's Law? "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong." Which ever you choose, and what ever you do, it's going to be wrong in someone else's eye's. I'll stick with "I don't know" and stay Agnostic, and open minded to human concepts and I'll seek my own truth based off these concepts and ones I might think of myself.
Believe in something or you will fall for anything. When it comes to education I say go for it, but remember the first part of my paragraph. It is a lot of educated people so wrapped up in being successful that they don't believe in God. People say education is fact. Sorry to burst your bubbles nothing is an actual fact unless truthful witnesses or finding out for yourself. So God be with you all and don't be gullible.
@WAITNONTHALORD All the heart does is pump blood. It does not effect feelings only is effected by feelings... so to speak from the bottom of your heart or to "mean it from the bottom of your heart" is just as meaningful as saying "mean it from the bottom of your lungs." Which we all know means nothing at all.
Don't take my word for it though. If you start believing and repent for your sins and mean it from the bottom of your heart. Ask God to come into your heart, mind , and soul. And never turn away from him ever, but if you do that is on you. He will show up and you will either see him or feel his presence. Long as you don't believe he may never prove himself until judgement day. Then it will be , too late to accept him. You will have to depart and burn his furnace with brimstones(makes it hotter)
@WAITNONTHALORD You know it's bad enough that I have to put up with religious crap out in public, on billboards & TV, & many other places, I come to this channel to watch a lecture on one of my favorite subjects. I see your post, it's like looking at piles of human shit all over the place. All you are doing is being a Troll. You R not having any discussions with anyone. All U R doing is pooping all over it. Go to a street corner and preach there. go to a religious youtube channel & preach there
Atheist speak on proof. When did you become important enough, since you don't believe. God himself is proof enough. So I tell you what books came from man so I won't give you a quote, but instead some advice. Know that God is so powerful that he reads minds and know what's in your heart. Of course, he made you so why would he not be able to read and know something or someone he made. Try this change your your mind & heart and start believing in God. Then you will know satan had you all alone
@WAITNONTHALORD get the fuck out of her you fucking troll SHIT I CAME HERE TO LISTEN TO AN INTELLIGENT MAN SPEAK ON SCIENCE AND THEN I SEE ALL OF YOUR PUKE HERE GEEEEBUS FUCK OFF, GO PREACH TO MORONS MORON.
@channelhismojo thanks you, oh & this guy waitnonthelord sent me a msg that said he loved me lol here's a quote "I love you because God love you believe it or not it's true" wow what a fucking troll, these people are so delusional. It bad enough that we are subjected to this crap out in public, & in a channel where we want to be away from that & watch something on science we are subjected to it. peace brother.
@dillinger9999 Yeah, he/she PMed me with some irrational babble. You can't reason with these lunatics. Religion is a mental disorder. Search YTbe for "Jim Jeffries religion" for a laugh. Peace.
@WAITNONTHALORD yes you are a troll. and I am way older than you! do you know what a troll is? THAT'S YOU! stop sending me messages and telling me you love me, I don't want your love lol really dude i don't swing that way. let me say this about horrid fucked up religion! Science flies us to the moon and religion flies you into buildings! YOUR ARGUMENT IS LOST BITCH!
@WAITNONTHALORD and now you are blocked from my channel, if you wanna talk crap do it here in front of everyone so they can all see what a real Troll is like.
At the end of the Bible it clearly states, do not add or take away from the word. Which has been done whomever has been reformating the Bible will be dealt with completely on their day of judgement. People want to speak science and existance. Well science wouldn't exist without God creating human. The animals wouldn't know anything about science would they? Continue letting the devil decieve you. He is doing a terriffic job. Reprobative mind is worse off than an addict of some sort. God bless u
@WAITNONTHALORD The crazy thing is that you believe God created nature, yet you ignore the facts that nature provides (evolution). Doesn't make sense.
@WAITNONTHALORD What about Yersinia pestis, the bacteria that caused the bubonic plague? Did God create the bubonic plague which killed 25 million people including infants? Did God create the polio virus, which kills and cripples children? If you believe God created everything you believe God is a fucking prick!
Everything happens for a reason. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, Jesus. God loves us and still his own children hate him or just don't believe. In the end hell will open up for the non-believers and they will join their companion (satan). There is no need to argue the point because what is said is said and what is done is done. There were scriptures created by God that found by man. The Bible was created by man from the scriptures, but it was reformated.
i wish i could be open about being an athiest. it sucks!, if i told my friends and family that i was an athiest, my friends would think im wierd and my parents would disown me. i just wanna shake them and say there is no fucking god you dipshits!! hahaha
problem 1: the creator of the universe created one bookcalled the bible. problem 2: "WE DONT KNOW TO BE CHRISTIAN OR MUSLEM" he said the qoran advocates holy war. The bible teaches to turn the other cheak, forgive, and to be passive. people will bring up stoning people and things of that nature. thats the old testiment. The new one(the part with jesus) says all violence is wrong. god gives us a sense of right ond wrong from birth, a moral cumpas. If you use this you will choos christianity.
@urchicksnewman I don't know why I'm bothering to respond, as I gave up on these debates some time ago, but here goes. A Third problem can be introduced, and that is the false dichotomy that your argument here depends on.
@TheArtOfRevolution Also, while I'm at it, you still consider the Old Testament to be the Word of God, no? Then you know the admitted evils your God is capable of condoning and even committing. Don't tell me you don't believe that God sent 4 she bears to maul a bunch of kids for making fun of Elisha. Don't tell me you don't believe that God wagered Job's whole life on a bet with Satan. And Don't tell me for a minute that you believe these things are morally right.
@parakketeru Morals do NOT come from religon or deities. Or perhaps they do, as they things tend to show us real fucked up shit that people tend to not chose when talking about morals. What I'm saying is is that WE as Humans,neither Logic, Rationale, created morals.
My belief is that God probably does exist but He is more of an idea created by man. Humans need an authoritative figure to guide and show whats morally wrong and correct. I mean if there was no religion people may have not realized that murder was a big deal. We kill animals everyday and we are animals so why can we should we not kill. why is murder such a big deal...this is all because of the existence of religion. Religion was a big factor as we evolved and since we modernized we dont need it
The comparison with a the coin toss is a bit generous. With a coin toss, there's always a small chance for the coin to end up standing on its edge ;-).
It`s shameful that in the west, people like this are "big thinkers". In the east it would be completely reverse. All religions are of the same God, however distorted over time, so one needs to look away from distortion and see the commonalities, which there are MANY of. How it escapes Sam Harris mind, is a puzzle though. Maybe he belongs to a very ignorant tribe, in a place in history future people will laugh at, and truth iterated to a point where it is known, and accepted.Praise be God.
@forceofhatred The credit goes to Carl Sagan and Hinduism. The Buddhist (I cant remember his name) in Sagan's novel Contact (much better than the movie) says the same thing, I stole it directly. The Mahabharata (maybe better than Contact) also says similar about Brahma "Manifest and unmanifest, existent and non-existent..."
Or you could look at all the evidence on each side and make up your own mind. Like the many prophecies and miracles in the Bible including the Resurrection of Jesus which validates its claims about itself. Being "born a Christian" is a contradiction in terms. It is a matter of choice. Choice which can be based upon sufficient evidence.
@RootDubz93 There is no evidence for the truth of what you typed there. A mere assertion is not evidence. If miracles confirming the truth claims of a religion don't count as evidence for those religious truth claims, then what could possibly count as evidence for them? You might as well say that the presence of transitional forms in the fossil record does not count as evidence for evolution.
Because all religions claim to have miracles. If miracles confirmed the truth claims of a religion, every religion on earth would be true, which of course they aren't.
Also miracles are so sparse as to be statistically insignificant. Of course most miracle claims are unconfirmed, and of the ones that can be it doesn't tell us what happened only that something happened that we cannot explain.
@chaoszieg If religion A says, "the one God created the universe," and then religion B says, "the one God created the universe," and then science says, "the universe was created," and then you look up 'creation' in the dictionary to find it means, "that which was created," all of that tells us that God does not exist but even if He did He did not create?
The reason why we cannot naturally explain the miraculous is because the miraculous is not natural to begin with.
The miraculous does not exist. everything considered "miraculous" has a natural explanation, our limited knowledge sometimes prevents us from knowing what it is.
You substitute your own ignorance with "miraculous." and "god" it only shows you as intellectually weak. It' the 21st century time to grow the fuck up. You're a child believing in childish nonsense.
@chaoszieg I actually think in terms of social debate, confusion and hilarity this is one of the best time periods to live in.
It won't be long, relatively speaking, until the entire world has succumb to truth and rationality and the notion of people actually believing in gods and an life will be suitably preposterous.
Sure we’ll have hover cars and live in space but we won’t ever have such a bafflingly funny subject to debate over ever again.
@evangelical1 How can you possibly say to me that there is no evidence for me to say to you that your claims have no evidence? Speak to any scientist. The bible is not evidence, it's not up for discussion mate.
@evangelical1 The bible is not evidence in the same way shakespear or dickins is not evidence. Yes the bible may have very few facts which have been shown by archeology, but apart from that, it's just words written by our ancestors who lacked the understanding we do of the world now, hence why there is no mention of electricity or rockets in the bible.
@RootDubz93 Shakespear's and Dickens' literary output is indeed evidence that such persons exist and are of fine literary caliber. Now let me see if I get you. You are saying that through big bang cosmology we have now learned that our cosmos did NOT begin a finite time in the past in marked contrast to the foolish ancient Hebrews?
@evangelical1 Well clearly the people who wrote the bible existed, and obviously they would have stated that the universe was created a finite time ago as otherwise there would have been no need for a creator, so they had to say that. What the bible did not get correct is how old the universe was and how many galaxies there are in the universe. The bible never actually says the earth is a sphere, and often implies that it is flat.
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in."
Proper extrapolation of the wordings in the Bible implies the earth is a flat disc with a large dome covering it. The dome is called either "Heaven" or a "Firmament." The purpose of the dome is to "separate the waters from the waters." The earth and dome are then help up by four pillars in the corners (although which corners are never stated, AFAIK).
Coincidentally, Noah's Flood was supposed to have been caused by opening windows in the dome, or the "Windows of Heaven."
@evangelical1 It is quite possible that someone by the name of Jesus did exist then, but what is more likely, that he somehow changed the laws of physics for a period of time in order to perform his 'miracles' or that he was morally ahead of his time, as quite a lot of people are today, and through chinese whispers, the story has been blown out of proportion. (2000 years of chinese whispers).
@RootDubz93 It is virtually impossible that Jesus did NOT exist, historically speaking. 2nd, we Christians never claimed that Jesus did change, or break, or contradict the laws of phyics when He performed miracles. And He was morally ahead of His time so I've think you've got a false dilemma here. Finally, you are about 1995 years off on the "chinese whispers game".
And we don't have 'many holy books authored by the creator.....', we have 1. But we have several religions who created their own bible by for instance replacing His actual name Jahweh or Jehovah (original hebrew scriptures) by the word 'God' or 'our heavenly father' for all the obvious reasons and ignoring simple biblical tasks such as spreading His word through 'door to door' contact. I'm no JW my parents are, i just know what his undeniable name is if he's real and it's not God or Allah even.
Sam the only reason why religion is loosing its ground, is because TRUE KNOWLEDGE of what the bible speaks of is rare thing amongst many religions. Most catholics and christians can even name the first 5 books and think that ..'Go forth and preach the word of god', is just a job for their local priest when it's probably the most important biblical task given to all. And yet i never ever had a christian or a catholic on my doorstep.
Btw did you know that the god in the bible actually has a name?
@Illyslammer understanding is difficult.. jeovahs witness has done a good job in decoding simple messages with the mixed up concept of trinity. but still theres work to do. did u know that when u read the aposalypse , the seven beasts as descrives as the seven churches in greece, ( indirectly rome)realy represents the allegory of hercules 12 achievements. the main apostles were greek. food for thought
@Arkaryon1 No problem bud, but if you show me a HOLY BOOK (I stress this point) that is more HISTORICALLY ACCURATE than the NEW TESTAMENT, I'll give you a virtual high five. Deal?
^^ "holy books" are not really historically accurate
if you want something historically accurate - read something from historians and compare their scripts
the new testament with "Jesus" based just on another astrology myth with were abundant back then - so I would not rely on that - it's just pagans belief with a newer monotheistic cloak :) ( it appears more likely that Jesus never existet -> read some historians scripts ;) - I wonder how many wrote about him)
mmm sam not impressed. jesus did not claim to be son of god. he cwould have stated that poeple here on earth were gods children. when ponce p[ilate asked him ;are u son of god; jesus said; u said it not me. and kran dopes not state if u beleive in jesus son of god you will go to hell kran states that jesus was a prophet and christ is the way. both religions beleives in eternal damnation. but dont mix up christ with jesus, christ is a way of living,. jesus is son of man in both holy books.
@2rainmalt Wrong. Matthew 16:15-17, Luke 1:32-35, and several times in Mark and Acts. And wrong again. The Q'uran says if you believe in any other God but Allah, and follow any prophet but Mohammad that you should be slain or enslaved. Christ is his title, Jesus was his name. There can only be one "Christ", it is hardly a way of life. He is the only "man" in the Q'uran, which blatantly bastardizes any Christian ideas.
@AcruxSolus ahh it because you give the attrubute of christ to jeus,, the conceot of christ if in all religion christ just means salvation. yes matthiew says jesus is the annointed in bible, but so does many other scriptures. indhus has the same christ concept
@2rainmalt allah is the same father of abraham. so indeed would be the same father of al.. allah just another word for a concept of god the creator. that said, only when you observe scriptures without the element of beleif
pffffffftt the arguments these guy gives are such cliched old chestnuts. Its true what he said obv, but I was hoping to hear him talking about the possibility of any non-religious creator, a deistic god or something.
@manwithouthat44 I wanted you to talk about the anatomy of a fart but all you're doing is talking about is the possibility of any non-religious creator. Who cares? If you want to hear someone talk about something you want to hear, say it in your head. It's quieter that way.
@AcruxSolus Ok angry atheist, calm down. What are you going on about. Its not like I wanted him to talk bout a different subject. The question was about him considering a creator and he gave cliched answers refering to the most mythical religious intrepatations. He should have given some feedback on just the idea of any sort of creator of the cosmos, deistic or theistic. Im not theistic/religious. I am an agnostic doubting between atheism and deism.
@manwithouthat44 I'm hardly angry, and I'm not an atheist. Unfortunately for you, "Athiesm" is not a belief that you can just "choose", which a majority of Atheists don't even know (essentially making them just as stupid as their Christian counterparts). And yes you do want him to talk about "something else". He talked about what he wanted too and got paid for it, when is the last time you did that?
@AcruxSolus Lol so because he gets payed to talk and I dont so he can just spout nonsense and evade questions. The title of the video is Sam Harris Considers a Creator. He should have talked about what I said, the idea of a creator. Instead HE DID talk about SOMETHING ELSE. The title of the video should have been, "Sam Harris talks about (the paradoxes of) religion" or a better title "Sam Harris rambles cliched old chestnuts without answering the actual topic/question"
Its alarming we need this sort of guy to point out these obvious statements. People are lazy on educating themselves. Im just saying we dont know, almost anything about the nature of reality or if this even is reality. There are for sure some forces acting all the time that we or our modern science do not yet regocnize. It just leaves you with more questions than answers. I'm just saying that learn to live with doubt, accept it and most of all dont be scared of it.
I agreed with everything he said until the last sentence. Even the highest estimate put Christians and Muslims at 3 billion out of the 7 billion people on earth. They are still in the minority.
YHWH gives everybody a chance to convert to judaism, the religion of his chosen people. it has nothing to do with accidents of birth, you CHOOSE to believe in him and follow his teachings and you'll be saved. it's pretty simple. once you get to feel his infinite glory, wisdom and grace, you'll know FOR SURE that he is the only real god out there. i know it can take a lot of courage to take the first step on your journey to find out what he's like, but you'll surely be rewarded disproportionately
I think this should be titled 'Sam Harris Considers the Veracity of Popular Religions,' as he is not discussing the possibility of a Creator, rather the idea of conflicting religions. Title aside, however, I really like how Mr. Harris uses great examples and analogies to illustrate ideas that other intellectual atheists often present in a difficult-to-discern manner. His relaxed pace and use of layman diction really project his ideas in a way that most people can visualize.
Any christian here, please explain this one thing:
Most well informed, intellectual people like scientists are atheist. They are obviously much more educated than us and likely know a lot more about the universe than we do. Why are they uniformly atheist?
@Hinduspy I'm a Christian. I would like to know exactly where you get your facts about the uniformity of belief among the scientific community. I think that this is not altogether true. I also think that you can be a good scientist, but a poor moralist or philosopher. You cannot find all truth in a lab. And as I have argued before, a grave misstep by these neo atheists is dismissing Christianity as mythic without considering the profound philosophical inquiry it provides.
@FishinFerTruth "I deserve to be in front of this person is evil"
In your example, I think there are circumstances that might exist where someone DESERVES to cut in front. For example, let's say a line 100 people deep surrounds a drinking fountain and 1 person towards the back is dying of dehydration while people at the front are merely filling up water jugs. In this example, I see no 'evil' in a line cut. Obviously, an evaluation of fairness and empathy must transpire. But evil? No.
@blaisingm Well you just confirmed my point. I said that the act of cutting in line was not evil, but the person who sees themself worthy of cutting, because in their own eyes they are of a superior order of being than everyone else, is evil. So, pride is evil. In your example with 100 people and 1 dying of thirst; I agree, there is nothing evil in that act because the act itself is not arising out of one person's belief that they are of superior worth compared to others.
@FishinFerTruth "This is what we call pride in the Christian world. What do you think?"
I think being a christian requires a great deal of pride. It is difficult to imagine a more prideful and egocentric tenet where people believe they are the pinnacle of creation and "masters of the universe" only usurped by 1 other creature (god). Although this belief isn't evil, it sure is prideful.
@blaisingm Supose this is true: God the Father created mankind and loves them dearly as his creation and as sons and daughters, and gave them his likeness; whereas every other created thing is merely created minus the express image of God. Is it truely prideful then to be a Christian on this premise?
@FishinFerTruth " Is it truely prideful then to be a Christian on this premise?"
The story is about god and what he does and feels..NOT christians. This is NOT what christians do or feel, so it is impossible to ascertain if christians are prideful . Under the premise that this description mirrors reality, then no. One might wonder why god felt it necessary to create or love mankind, I suppose. Is this the premise that all christians agree upon about the nature of reality?
@blaisingm Yes. Misconceptions about true Christian perspective are due mostly to the rampant misrepresentation of it by professed Christians themsevles. Christianity is actually not even a religion, nor is it judgment. It is God's person as ultimacy, the embracing of human frailty and imperfection, and the redemption of mankind. It is, in short, a love story between God the Father and his children whom he loves very much.
@FishinFerTruth "Misconceptions about true Christian perspective"
NOW u're exercising that pride I was talking about missing in your example story about god (why a story about god should reflect christian pride, I don't know). U have no problems proclaiming ownership of the 'true' christian perspective, while other christians are presumably confused. U even offer up a fictitious definition of christianity exempting it from religion status. Perfect examples of pride + delusion.
I promise you, you are mistaken. Because someone knows that they have a solid grip on the fundaments of their faith, and can therefore spot misrepresentations of it, doesn't make them delusional. There is one, single, solitary understanding of some of the core Christian doctrines, and there are offshoots that do not resemble what Christianity teaches, yet assumes the title. Because someone is strongly convicted, doesn't make them prideful. We have to defend something, correct?
@FishinFerTruth "fits your own definition of prideful does it not?"
U're the one that brought up pride and started identifying those with/without pride. What did u mean by 'pride' when u started throwing the word around? What would u call an individual convinced they r in possession of the 'true' christian perspective (exclusive access to the creator of the universe's thoughts) AND denies that christianity is a religion? How many people do u think would agree with ur convictions?
I didn't bring up pride.You assigned it as an alternative label for Christians besides evil.What would I call an individual convinced that their perspective on God is the accurate one? (And by the way, I never said knowledge of God was exclusive; it is actually open to anyone who is willing to find it.) I would call that person Billy Graham, Martin Luther, Augustine of Hippo, the apostle Paul, or the guy at the church down the street. Everyone is convinced they are right, but there is one truth.
You brought up pride initially when u mentioned "christian pride", or lack of. I objected by commenting that it is difficult for me to imagine a less prideful or egocentric tenet than christianity. I offered an example as to why which you strengthened by fabricating a definition for christianity and exempting it as a religion...ur belief system gives you pride assuming I understand its definitions.
I was looking for an adjective, not a person...If pride doesn't suffice as an adjective to describe your relationship with christianity (as you have suggested), then what adjective would you use to describe: an individual convinced they r in possession of the 'true' christian perspective AND denies that christianity is a religion? Furthermore, how many people do u think would agree that christianity is NOT a religion?
@FishinFerTruth "Everyone is convinced they are right, but there is one truth.
Not everyone clings to certainty the way you do. I'm one of them. Uncertainty and doubt is an exercise in humility BECAUSE you r open to the possibility of being wrong. Unlike you, not everyone has all the answers and is 100% convinced they are right. What other rights do you award yourself (because you are in possession of 'truth') OTHER than exempting christianity as a religion?
Apparently you do... and, apparently, your defense gives you an exemption from pride. I don't sit around believing in things. I am open to all possibilities ranked in order of highest probability.
@blaisingm Well, then that is just the difference. I have a reason for existence, while you do not. What will your little hierarchy of probabilities matter when you are dead? With that line of reasoning you should be a Christian yourself. Which is more probable: that something is here because someone caused it to be, or reality is an accident? Even science says that "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." Somehow, the existence of everything is exempt from this principle
@FishinFerTruth "I have a reason for existence, while you do not."
Wow! The christian ego is vast indeed. I'd definitely like you to elaborate on this; what makes you think you "have a reason for existence", while I don't?
"What will your little hierarchy of probabilities matter when you are dead?"
I really want to answer this question, but I'll need elaboration. What does death have to do with an openness to all possibilities? I think I know, but don't want to put words in ur mouth.
@FishinFerTruth "someone caused it to be, or reality is an accident?""
Look at ur limited 2 possibility scenarios for reality. In ur first scenario, by saying "someone" u admit that someone other than god could have created reality. So, either u doubt the existence of god OR ur dishonest about ur christian conviction. Neither bodes well for u. 2 possibilities is unimaginative. There are near infinite possibilities concerning origins of the universe. U cant think of any other scenarios?
@blaisingm You could say that your most recent response to me in which you took the liberty of characterizing my position as "pride + delusion", fits your own definition of prideful does it not? However, I don't think you're prideful; I believe you are convicted and are thereby defending your beliefs
This is the dumbest argument ever. A 3rd grader could destroy this video. Harris is clueless about both books (Bible & Koran). He makes Islam equal to Christianity so it's a "toss up"? "Competing tribes" ? Stupid! The bible doesn't mention Islam as Islam was made up hundreds of years AFTER the bible was written. Islam was made up to compete with Judaism and Christianity. The New Testament clearly teaches that Jesus' disciples didn't compete with anyone or anything. Harris could do better.
@ElCubanoConguero Your argument is rife with straw man fallacies as is based on a misunderstanding of what Harris said, so addressing your points is useless. Far better to correct your perceptions.
1) The bible/koran are both based on the same desert god mythology and share most of the same characters.
2) Christianity became a formalized religion in 325 AD and Islam began around the year 610 AD, just a few hundred years apart, so yes, Christians and Muslims were contemporary "tribes".
What he says is that the NT (Christianity) claim to the divinity of Jesus is in conflict with the Qur'an's claim that Jesus was not divine. Then there are the differences of opinion between the OT and the Qur'an, and the "tribes" that followed each. Toss to decide which one should be believed.
You recognize Islam was made up (Judaism, Christianity, Taoism, Hindu, Buddhism, etc.)
The Bible wasn't written, btw. It was compiled, and later edited.
Great!! The idea you mentioned is really funny :D One part of earth will spend rest of life(death) on heaven and one half in hell :D - of course together with atheist...But idea of life after life is sooo nice - It looks to be better to choose one book and have 50% chance to be in heaven, but if you are atheist you have no chance :D.......I 100% agree with you
Why would anyone look to the bible for morals? I would rather be a man of ethics. anyone who is god fearing cant be a true man of god in my eyes. Why would god (hypothetically speaking) want blind, thoughtless sheep to keep in (his) company?
@martiandog89 Not clear at all. Based on attractiveness, I would pick moderate Janism way before I would pick Christianity. It has a much better moral model.
You now have a perfect account of the creation of the Universe, which puts an end to the conflicting versions.
The Creator has posted a video on YouTube. The message comes to you directly, without the need for transcription or interpretation by iron-age scribes, or analysis by Stephen Hawking.
The video tells you how you came to be here, outlines the meaning and purpose of your life, and gives you an insight into the future of humankind.
Are you dismissing this video as a religious person trying to defend his religiousity in a science forum?
What I take from this is Harris questioning the belief in a Creator. He notes there are many books that propose Gods, The Bible and The Qur'an as two we are familiar with, noting Muslim and Jewish origins, with Christian influences, and referencing Chinese as one society that knew neither.
If there was a God, he asks, wouldn't the revelation be less disputable?
Why is he considering all "Holy Books" are equal? No Christian would believe the Quaran, no Muslim would believe the entire Bible. The people that use the book's don't believe they're equal or come from the same place, why would you consider that?
i would like to quote a holy book, the Bhagavad Gita, "when your mind leaves behind its dark forest of delusion, you shall go beyond the scriptures of times past and still to come, when your mind, which may be wavering in the contradictions of many scriptures, shall rest unshaken in divine contemplation, the goal of yoga is yours." this man is making a case that it is silly to believe in a god because if you compare world scriptures they seem to conflict. but i tempt you to look in your heart.
People operate on a sense of entitlement by misunderstanding the character of God. The current circumstances of the world (death, destruction, suffering) was introduced through the initation of human free will. God doesn't intend suffering, but he allows it to preserve human free will. I know God, he called me to himself when I was 20. I had never read the bible or been to church. Call me crazy if you will, but the essence of God is Love. Jesus has been misrepresented, seek for yourself.
@FishinFerTruth What about free will causes earthquakes or vestigial appendixes, prone to infection, or mortality? Do any of my choices affect these things?
@BrooklynRagtag "Sin" is more than just the product of human free will, and has more to do with the nature of reality as well as the nature of inherent evil in people when they are born. It is a metaphysical condition that eclipses all of what has been created on earth. It isn't your choice that affects these things, it is the actual premise from which your choices originate, and that is the world in its present state. Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm only relating what know is true.
@FishinFerTruth Sorry...What?!! Are you saying I'm held accountable for things that aren't of my choosing? Are you saying I'm responsible for conditions that existed before I was even born? The things you are saying are really nonsensical. Perhaps you'd like to reformulate them and try again.
@BrooklynRagtag Sorry, I'm not trying to make my point ambiguous or unclear: What I mean is that "Sin" is so often represented as something like telling a lie or getting drunk when in reality it is so much more than that. It is a condition, the condition in which we all live. Think about rapes, murders, theft (to name just a few evils)--now think about why those have and always will be committed by the human race. It is because sin is part of the metaphysical construction of our reality. -->
@FishinFerTruth So you are saying that we are punished for the metaphysical construction of our reality. That sounds like the same thing as the last post to me. Tell me if I have this correct. You are saying that suffering occurs because we are all born into an unalterable condition of sinfulness. How is suffering preserving our free will and why would a just god punish every single person on the planet just for being born?
@BrooklynRagtag: We're actually never "punished" in this life. That is what Christ and the apostles spend a lot of their time warning us about. A hurricane or tornado is not punishment, they are just, as I have said, the metaphysical repercussions of sin being introduced into the world. God created the world to be good--well, obviously venomous spiders, disastrous weather, and rampant homicide are not good. This world therefore is not how God intended it. This is a great convo, thanks.
@BrooklynRagtag You know, I find it odd myself that I am defending Christianity when six years ago I would have never defended it. I came to Christianity from an atheistic home in which I could count on one hand how many times we talked about God. My father never mentioned Jesus at all, ever. Despite, this is what I claim: God is real and alive. I know because He spoke to me one night. Love is His motivation, and it is because of love that we are here, that there is something rather than not.
@FishinFerTruth It doesn't sound like you came from an atheistic home. It sounds more like an a-religious home. Those two are very different.
That aside, assuming I grant the literal interpretation of the Christian premise, did God chose the conditions after Adam and Eve ate the fruit or did Adam and Eve? If God chose the conditions, how is suffering not a punishment of all of humanity for the crimes of the first humans?
@BrooklynRagtag You are probably right (a-religious). What happens when a baby's parents are deemed unfit for raising a child due to alcohol abuse, drugs, etc? They take the baby and it becomes an orphan. The child suffers from his/her parents' decisions. If a mother drinks alcohol while pregnant and the child is born with Down Syndrome, the child suffers again. Free will was given to the first humans. God is pure and so were we once, but that changed as did reality at the advent of sin.
@BrooklynRagtag Just a caveat to make my meaning clear: We are not punished for acts committed prior to our existence, however, we have to live under the circumstances by which they were produced. Part of being corruptible and imperfect is being driven by desire. Desire is good, but it is often misplaced. Many Christians condemn sex, certain music, and alcohol. By this, they put words into God's mouth. God loves these things and only wants us to enjoy them in a responsible way.
@BrooklynRagtag According to my understanding, God stands outside of time and space as we know it and created everything that exists, including cause and effect. God is God, as perfect is perfect, and he is perfect. All that is "not-God" or "of-God" and imperfect is destined for an end. A misconception is that people think the Christian God is a forboding agency waiting to destroy "sinners." Not true. This is the version of Christianity that New Atheists attack. Am I a religous guy? Nope.
@BrooklynRagtag Further, what these NA's attack is a straw man version of Christianity that is easy to dismantle with deductive reasoning. But if you study the "science of fine tuning", and compare that with Christianity, you'll see that the Philosophy of Christianity isn't something you can so easily dispose of. You really have to grapple with it. The problem is that screwed up versions of Christianity are far more common than a presentation of it in its true essence. We need better dialog.
@FishinFerTruth My question is how to distinguish the "true essence" of Christianity from the rest of Christianity. What reliable process could possibly exist to determine what the unobservable creator wants from us? The divergence of Christianity, and of god belief in general, that makes the entire prospect of divine personal revelation highly suspect. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
@BrooklynRagtag Hello B.R. Absolutely. Our honest dialog here has inspired me to create a blog to answer any questions anyone may have about Christianity. If you will go to this site I replied to your questions as best as I could: h tee tee pee colon slash slash i will folllow dot blogspot dot com
@BrooklynRagtag Sorry, I realized that my blogpage "iwillfollow," I have mistakenly created with three Ls in the word "follow." So it is iwillfolllow.blogspot.com.
@FishinFerTruth I'm glad that I've inspired you to start something new, and thank you for the very thorough response, however I don't feel you really answered my question. What reliable process can distinguish between the conflicting claims of two people who are both convinced they know the mind of God on a specific issue?
@FishinFerTruth Your answers really are giving me insight into your perspective, however my questions aren't being answered. I suspect Christianity won't have a satisfactory answer for me and I don't think that is your fault. Here's an example of something that seems unjustified to me:
1) Christianity posits a need and a method for redemption
2) A true faith must posit a need and a method for redemption
@BrooklynRagtag I see. I'm curious then. Given the circumstances of the reality in which we live, where do you think evil comes from? Thoughts are appreciated.
There is no evil. There is social, and there is anti-social.
Any action that one might consider "evil" is simply one (or a group ultimately encouraged by one) acting in a negative or self-serving manner towards others.
No evil spirit is involved, just one's determination of need or power or satisaction towards another or others.
Social behaviour initiates its own boundaries, for individual preservation among the group. Some members step outside the boundaries.
@saglek If I may add a bit to your point; evolution has programed us to view anyone who steps outside of the group's boundaries as something malicious. Something to be feared. This predisposes us to believing that there is "evil".
And, for other evolutionary reasons, we're also predisposed to seeing intent behind things in our environment. All of these things create the perfect storm for the illusion of an evil force at work in the world.
I consider that evolution has led us to be conceptual creatures, to a level of thinking about ideas beyond usual senses and requirements.
Peer adherence is a social factor (though one could argue that evolution put us there). I can't answer about environmental intent, unless you are referring to serving human ego but I am not sure how the notion of evil stems from that.
Evil was questioned as a thing. Evil is a conclusion, an adjective, not a thing, in my opinion.
What I meant, though, is that we're predisposed to seeing a malign intelligence in the world around us because such an ability benefited our ancestors. To illustrate: our ancestors needed to wonder if that's a predator rustling in the grass, or if it's just the wind. For this reason, we're already hard-wired to assign an intent to various things around us, even when there is no actual intent there at all.
Ultimately, you are correct. I was simply elaborating a bit further
@SeedsOfHatred Man once did assign intent to possible danger.. I think there is a contemporary tendency to identify the conflicting notions to religious ideas as evil at work. Christianity advocates proselytizing and Islam is more extreme regarding those who do not conform. Religions in their more extreme forms require commitment to the belief system and there goes objectivity. A God that created a devil or evil is a confusing God indeed; the same one that gave us logic?
@saglek Ok. So you are saying that when a person does what is commonly accepted as "evil," they are merely acting in a way that benefits themselves and simultaneously puts others at a disadvantage?
What I'm saying is that "evil" doesn't exist as an entity or object.. It is an adjective we use to describe vile behaviour, and that adjective arises out of religious heritage.
That vile behaviour benefits the perpetrator in some way and, to them, negatively impacts the target, whether it actually puts the target at a disadvantage or not. An observer, whether victim or third-party, assesses the damage and assigns the adjective according to their standards.
@saglek Ok, then my question to you is: What constitutes "vile behavior?" And building from that question: Do you think that there is any act--let's say murder--that is wrong for every person whether or not someone agrees that it is?
Sam Harris' own unfalsifiable thesis: There is no intelligent creator because any intelligent creator would have created in a way that is readily comprehensible, plausible and recognizable from a human point of view.
Once Harris asserts that anyone is born in a place "by accident," he tips his hand in his own favor. He has already excluded the idea of a God big enough, sovereign enough, to preside over such things. (c.f. Acts 17:26) Of course whatever god he is left with will be too feeble.
MPWorthMcEwan 1 day ago in playlist Uploaded videos
*too feeble to have created via natural processes.
MPWorthMcEwan 1 day ago in playlist Uploaded videos
Never heard it so eloquent said. Excellent.
Goldstein270 4 days ago
[Is there a possibility] of a creator? There is a possibility of course. Just as there is a possibility of an infinite number of things. Knowledge and reason is the safest and fairest route of understanding our existence.
Michael89ir 6 days ago
Sam hariss looks like a Jesus if Jesus was a clean-cut neurologist...and a ''claimed''(we're not falling for that again, Jesus) atheist.
theforestero 6 days ago
Exactly what I think. Christians say one thing. Muslims say another, and so does every Religion, and Atheists. Which do you choose? By the way; whats the definition of Murphy's Law? "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong." Which ever you choose, and what ever you do, it's going to be wrong in someone else's eye's. I'll stick with "I don't know" and stay Agnostic, and open minded to human concepts and I'll seek my own truth based off these concepts and ones I might think of myself.
Aanalleinoneman 6 days ago
" Is there a possibility of a creator?" let me handle this one.. YES.
snoweyeball 1 week ago
Believe in something or you will fall for anything. When it comes to education I say go for it, but remember the first part of my paragraph. It is a lot of educated people so wrapped up in being successful that they don't believe in God. People say education is fact. Sorry to burst your bubbles nothing is an actual fact unless truthful witnesses or finding out for yourself. So God be with you all and don't be gullible.
WAITNONTHALORD 1 week ago
@WAITNONTHALORD All the heart does is pump blood. It does not effect feelings only is effected by feelings... so to speak from the bottom of your heart or to "mean it from the bottom of your heart" is just as meaningful as saying "mean it from the bottom of your lungs." Which we all know means nothing at all.
p0kinsmot 1 week ago
Don't take my word for it though. If you start believing and repent for your sins and mean it from the bottom of your heart. Ask God to come into your heart, mind , and soul. And never turn away from him ever, but if you do that is on you. He will show up and you will either see him or feel his presence. Long as you don't believe he may never prove himself until judgement day. Then it will be , too late to accept him. You will have to depart and burn his furnace with brimstones(makes it hotter)
WAITNONTHALORD 1 week ago
@WAITNONTHALORD You know it's bad enough that I have to put up with religious crap out in public, on billboards & TV, & many other places, I come to this channel to watch a lecture on one of my favorite subjects. I see your post, it's like looking at piles of human shit all over the place. All you are doing is being a Troll. You R not having any discussions with anyone. All U R doing is pooping all over it. Go to a street corner and preach there. go to a religious youtube channel & preach there
dillinger9999 5 days ago
Atheist speak on proof. When did you become important enough, since you don't believe. God himself is proof enough. So I tell you what books came from man so I won't give you a quote, but instead some advice. Know that God is so powerful that he reads minds and know what's in your heart. Of course, he made you so why would he not be able to read and know something or someone he made. Try this change your your mind & heart and start believing in God. Then you will know satan had you all alone
WAITNONTHALORD 1 week ago
@WAITNONTHALORD get the fuck out of her you fucking troll SHIT I CAME HERE TO LISTEN TO AN INTELLIGENT MAN SPEAK ON SCIENCE AND THEN I SEE ALL OF YOUR PUKE HERE GEEEEBUS FUCK OFF, GO PREACH TO MORONS MORON.
dillinger9999 1 week ago 2
@dillinger9999 Right on bro!
channelhismojo 5 days ago
@channelhismojo thanks you, oh & this guy waitnonthelord sent me a msg that said he loved me lol here's a quote "I love you because God love you believe it or not it's true" wow what a fucking troll, these people are so delusional. It bad enough that we are subjected to this crap out in public, & in a channel where we want to be away from that & watch something on science we are subjected to it. peace brother.
dillinger9999 5 days ago
@dillinger9999 Yeah, he/she PMed me with some irrational babble. You can't reason with these lunatics. Religion is a mental disorder. Search YTbe for "Jim Jeffries religion" for a laugh. Peace.
channelhismojo 5 days ago
@WAITNONTHALORD yes you are a troll. and I am way older than you! do you know what a troll is? THAT'S YOU! stop sending me messages and telling me you love me, I don't want your love lol really dude i don't swing that way. let me say this about horrid fucked up religion! Science flies us to the moon and religion flies you into buildings! YOUR ARGUMENT IS LOST BITCH!
dillinger9999 5 days ago
@WAITNONTHALORD and now you are blocked from my channel, if you wanna talk crap do it here in front of everyone so they can all see what a real Troll is like.
dillinger9999 5 days ago
At the end of the Bible it clearly states, do not add or take away from the word. Which has been done whomever has been reformating the Bible will be dealt with completely on their day of judgement. People want to speak science and existance. Well science wouldn't exist without God creating human. The animals wouldn't know anything about science would they? Continue letting the devil decieve you. He is doing a terriffic job. Reprobative mind is worse off than an addict of some sort. God bless u
WAITNONTHALORD 1 week ago
@WAITNONTHALORD The crazy thing is that you believe God created nature, yet you ignore the facts that nature provides (evolution). Doesn't make sense.
bench175 1 week ago
@bench175 God created heaven, hell, the sun, the moon, earth and everything within it. Does that sum it up for you. Hope that helped
WAITNONTHALORD 1 week ago
@WAITNONTHALORD What about Yersinia pestis, the bacteria that caused the bubonic plague? Did God create the bubonic plague which killed 25 million people including infants? Did God create the polio virus, which kills and cripples children? If you believe God created everything you believe God is a fucking prick!
channelhismojo 6 days ago
Everything happens for a reason. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, Jesus. God loves us and still his own children hate him or just don't believe. In the end hell will open up for the non-believers and they will join their companion (satan). There is no need to argue the point because what is said is said and what is done is done. There were scriptures created by God that found by man. The Bible was created by man from the scriptures, but it was reformated.
WAITNONTHALORD 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Some people want young white females to mix with non-white males.
I made a one-minute video highlighting a very small sample of race-mixing advertisements.
I love white people, and I am opposed to race-mixing. But I do not hate non-whites.
If you click on my name “awhitesoul2012” highlighted in blue below this comment, you can watch my video.
Thanks.
awhitesoul2012 1 week ago
Why would God take Hitchens and leave us with O'Reilly???
hiph0pfiend 1 week ago
@hiph0pfiend because god doesn't exist obviously, only a godless universe would have it be the way it is
cabot2jville2010 1 week ago
i wish i could be open about being an athiest. it sucks!, if i told my friends and family that i was an athiest, my friends would think im wierd and my parents would disown me. i just wanna shake them and say there is no fucking god you dipshits!! hahaha
darwinism13 1 week ago
problem 1: the creator of the universe created one bookcalled the bible. problem 2: "WE DONT KNOW TO BE CHRISTIAN OR MUSLEM" he said the qoran advocates holy war. The bible teaches to turn the other cheak, forgive, and to be passive. people will bring up stoning people and things of that nature. thats the old testiment. The new one(the part with jesus) says all violence is wrong. god gives us a sense of right ond wrong from birth, a moral cumpas. If you use this you will choos christianity.
urchicksnewman 2 weeks ago
@urchicksnewman I don't know why I'm bothering to respond, as I gave up on these debates some time ago, but here goes. A Third problem can be introduced, and that is the false dichotomy that your argument here depends on.
TheArtOfRevolution 1 week ago
@TheArtOfRevolution Also, while I'm at it, you still consider the Old Testament to be the Word of God, no? Then you know the admitted evils your God is capable of condoning and even committing. Don't tell me you don't believe that God sent 4 she bears to maul a bunch of kids for making fun of Elisha. Don't tell me you don't believe that God wagered Job's whole life on a bet with Satan. And Don't tell me for a minute that you believe these things are morally right.
TheArtOfRevolution 1 week ago
@parakketeru Morals do NOT come from religon or deities. Or perhaps they do, as they things tend to show us real fucked up shit that people tend to not chose when talking about morals. What I'm saying is is that WE as Humans,neither Logic, Rationale, created morals.
marineooo5 2 weeks ago
WHAT? we believe in Jesus. we just disagree with the word choice! instead of "son" we just say "soul of god"..........o____o. bye.
isupposably 2 weeks ago
My belief is that God probably does exist but He is more of an idea created by man. Humans need an authoritative figure to guide and show whats morally wrong and correct. I mean if there was no religion people may have not realized that murder was a big deal. We kill animals everyday and we are animals so why can we should we not kill. why is murder such a big deal...this is all because of the existence of religion. Religion was a big factor as we evolved and since we modernized we dont need it
parakketeru 3 weeks ago
great point!!!
shavemangin 3 weeks ago
The comparison with a the coin toss is a bit generous. With a coin toss, there's always a small chance for the coin to end up standing on its edge ;-).
rambammer2000 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
It`s shameful that in the west, people like this are "big thinkers". In the east it would be completely reverse. All religions are of the same God, however distorted over time, so one needs to look away from distortion and see the commonalities, which there are MANY of. How it escapes Sam Harris mind, is a puzzle though. Maybe he belongs to a very ignorant tribe, in a place in history future people will laugh at, and truth iterated to a point where it is known, and accepted.Praise be God.
ParadoxEternal 1 month ago
Comment removed
ParadoxEternal 1 month ago
My god is so powerful he doesn't need to exist.
twiggy120 1 month ago 46
@twiggy120 Mind = *BOOM*
dansemacabre17 2 weeks ago
@twiggy120 clever. :P
forceofhatred 2 weeks ago
@forceofhatred The credit goes to Carl Sagan and Hinduism. The Buddhist (I cant remember his name) in Sagan's novel Contact (much better than the movie) says the same thing, I stole it directly. The Mahabharata (maybe better than Contact) also says similar about Brahma "Manifest and unmanifest, existent and non-existent..."
twiggy120 2 weeks ago
@twiggy120 i dont get it
cabot2jville2010 1 week ago
Or you could look at all the evidence on each side and make up your own mind. Like the many prophecies and miracles in the Bible including the Resurrection of Jesus which validates its claims about itself. Being "born a Christian" is a contradiction in terms. It is a matter of choice. Choice which can be based upon sufficient evidence.
evangelical1 1 month ago
@evangelical1 There is no evidence. The bible is not evidence.
RootDubz93 1 month ago
@RootDubz93 There is no evidence for the truth of what you typed there. A mere assertion is not evidence. If miracles confirming the truth claims of a religion don't count as evidence for those religious truth claims, then what could possibly count as evidence for them? You might as well say that the presence of transitional forms in the fossil record does not count as evidence for evolution.
evangelical1 1 month ago
@evangelical1
Because all religions claim to have miracles. If miracles confirmed the truth claims of a religion, every religion on earth would be true, which of course they aren't.
Also miracles are so sparse as to be statistically insignificant. Of course most miracle claims are unconfirmed, and of the ones that can be it doesn't tell us what happened only that something happened that we cannot explain.
chaoszieg 1 month ago
@chaoszieg If religion A says, "the one God created the universe," and then religion B says, "the one God created the universe," and then science says, "the universe was created," and then you look up 'creation' in the dictionary to find it means, "that which was created," all of that tells us that God does not exist but even if He did He did not create?
The reason why we cannot naturally explain the miraculous is because the miraculous is not natural to begin with.
evangelical1 1 month ago
@evangelical1
Science doesn't say the universe was created.
The miraculous does not exist. everything considered "miraculous" has a natural explanation, our limited knowledge sometimes prevents us from knowing what it is.
You substitute your own ignorance with "miraculous." and "god" it only shows you as intellectually weak. It' the 21st century time to grow the fuck up. You're a child believing in childish nonsense.
chaoszieg 1 month ago 26
@chaoszieg I actually think in terms of social debate, confusion and hilarity this is one of the best time periods to live in.
It won't be long, relatively speaking, until the entire world has succumb to truth and rationality and the notion of people actually believing in gods and an life will be suitably preposterous.
Sure we’ll have hover cars and live in space but we won’t ever have such a bafflingly funny subject to debate over ever again.
bailer4life 2 days ago
@evangelical1 How can you possibly say to me that there is no evidence for me to say to you that your claims have no evidence? Speak to any scientist. The bible is not evidence, it's not up for discussion mate.
RootDubz93 1 month ago
@evangelical1 The bible is not evidence in the same way shakespear or dickins is not evidence. Yes the bible may have very few facts which have been shown by archeology, but apart from that, it's just words written by our ancestors who lacked the understanding we do of the world now, hence why there is no mention of electricity or rockets in the bible.
RootDubz93 1 month ago
@RootDubz93 Shakespear's and Dickens' literary output is indeed evidence that such persons exist and are of fine literary caliber. Now let me see if I get you. You are saying that through big bang cosmology we have now learned that our cosmos did NOT begin a finite time in the past in marked contrast to the foolish ancient Hebrews?
evangelical1 1 month ago
@evangelical1 Well clearly the people who wrote the bible existed, and obviously they would have stated that the universe was created a finite time ago as otherwise there would have been no need for a creator, so they had to say that. What the bible did not get correct is how old the universe was and how many galaxies there are in the universe. The bible never actually says the earth is a sphere, and often implies that it is flat.
RootDubz93 1 month ago
@RootDubz93
The bible doesn't say that the earth is flat: "
Isaiah 40:22 (NKJV)
It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in."
nzylis 1 month ago
@nzylis
Proper extrapolation of the wordings in the Bible implies the earth is a flat disc with a large dome covering it. The dome is called either "Heaven" or a "Firmament." The purpose of the dome is to "separate the waters from the waters." The earth and dome are then help up by four pillars in the corners (although which corners are never stated, AFAIK).
Coincidentally, Noah's Flood was supposed to have been caused by opening windows in the dome, or the "Windows of Heaven."
MrDrakkus 3 weeks ago
@evangelical1 It is quite possible that someone by the name of Jesus did exist then, but what is more likely, that he somehow changed the laws of physics for a period of time in order to perform his 'miracles' or that he was morally ahead of his time, as quite a lot of people are today, and through chinese whispers, the story has been blown out of proportion. (2000 years of chinese whispers).
RootDubz93 1 month ago
@RootDubz93 It is virtually impossible that Jesus did NOT exist, historically speaking. 2nd, we Christians never claimed that Jesus did change, or break, or contradict the laws of phyics when He performed miracles. And He was morally ahead of His time so I've think you've got a false dilemma here. Finally, you are about 1995 years off on the "chinese whispers game".
evangelical1 1 month ago
I sexually like Sam Harris
Elorx 1 month ago
And we don't have 'many holy books authored by the creator.....', we have 1. But we have several religions who created their own bible by for instance replacing His actual name Jahweh or Jehovah (original hebrew scriptures) by the word 'God' or 'our heavenly father' for all the obvious reasons and ignoring simple biblical tasks such as spreading His word through 'door to door' contact. I'm no JW my parents are, i just know what his undeniable name is if he's real and it's not God or Allah even.
Illyslammer 1 month ago
Sam the only reason why religion is loosing its ground, is because TRUE KNOWLEDGE of what the bible speaks of is rare thing amongst many religions. Most catholics and christians can even name the first 5 books and think that ..'Go forth and preach the word of god', is just a job for their local priest when it's probably the most important biblical task given to all. And yet i never ever had a christian or a catholic on my doorstep.
Btw did you know that the god in the bible actually has a name?
Illyslammer 1 month ago
@Illyslammer understanding is difficult.. jeovahs witness has done a good job in decoding simple messages with the mixed up concept of trinity. but still theres work to do. did u know that when u read the aposalypse , the seven beasts as descrives as the seven churches in greece, ( indirectly rome)realy represents the allegory of hercules 12 achievements. the main apostles were greek. food for thought
2rainmalt 1 month ago
"Abysmal ignorance" Hahaha!
OhManTFE 1 month ago
The New testament is the most historically accurate holy book
philster00700 1 month ago
@philster00700
:D aaaahahahahahahaaha what a good joke - YOU MADE MY DAY!
Arkaryon1 1 month ago
@Arkaryon1 No problem bud, but if you show me a HOLY BOOK (I stress this point) that is more HISTORICALLY ACCURATE than the NEW TESTAMENT, I'll give you a virtual high five. Deal?
philster00700 1 month ago
@philster00700
^^ "holy books" are not really historically accurate
if you want something historically accurate - read something from historians and compare their scripts
the new testament with "Jesus" based just on another astrology myth with were abundant back then - so I would not rely on that - it's just pagans belief with a newer monotheistic cloak :) ( it appears more likely that Jesus never existet -> read some historians scripts ;) - I wonder how many wrote about him)
Arkaryon1 1 month ago
@Arkaryon1 Historians from around the world TODAY agree that the New Testament is approximately 99.5% accurate.
philster00700 1 month ago
Comment removed
philster00700 1 month ago
@Arkaryon1 also, Jesus NEVER EXISTED????? Aren't you ignorant.
philster00700 1 month ago
@philster00700
then show me evidence for him :)
but not from the bibel -> there's only scripts made some decades after Jesus possibly lived :)
read some historian scripts from famous and trustworthy people who lived at that time
-> you will see the signs of his existence will disappear^^ (even though Jesus made some really special wonders and so on)
and again Jesus is just a personified astrology myth :) -> he represents the sun
Arkaryon1 1 month ago
mmm sam not impressed. jesus did not claim to be son of god. he cwould have stated that poeple here on earth were gods children. when ponce p[ilate asked him ;are u son of god; jesus said; u said it not me. and kran dopes not state if u beleive in jesus son of god you will go to hell kran states that jesus was a prophet and christ is the way. both religions beleives in eternal damnation. but dont mix up christ with jesus, christ is a way of living,. jesus is son of man in both holy books.
2rainmalt 1 month ago
@2rainmalt Wrong. Matthew 16:15-17, Luke 1:32-35, and several times in Mark and Acts. And wrong again. The Q'uran says if you believe in any other God but Allah, and follow any prophet but Mohammad that you should be slain or enslaved. Christ is his title, Jesus was his name. There can only be one "Christ", it is hardly a way of life. He is the only "man" in the Q'uran, which blatantly bastardizes any Christian ideas.
AcruxSolus 1 month ago
@AcruxSolus ahh it because you give the attrubute of christ to jeus,, the conceot of christ if in all religion christ just means salvation. yes matthiew says jesus is the annointed in bible, but so does many other scriptures. indhus has the same christ concept
2rainmalt 1 month ago
@2rainmalt allah is the same father of abraham. so indeed would be the same father of al.. allah just another word for a concept of god the creator. that said, only when you observe scriptures without the element of beleif
2rainmalt 1 month ago
pffffffftt the arguments these guy gives are such cliched old chestnuts. Its true what he said obv, but I was hoping to hear him talking about the possibility of any non-religious creator, a deistic god or something.
manwithouthat44 1 month ago
@manwithouthat44 I wanted you to talk about the anatomy of a fart but all you're doing is talking about is the possibility of any non-religious creator. Who cares? If you want to hear someone talk about something you want to hear, say it in your head. It's quieter that way.
AcruxSolus 1 month ago
@AcruxSolus Ok angry atheist, calm down. What are you going on about. Its not like I wanted him to talk bout a different subject. The question was about him considering a creator and he gave cliched answers refering to the most mythical religious intrepatations. He should have given some feedback on just the idea of any sort of creator of the cosmos, deistic or theistic. Im not theistic/religious. I am an agnostic doubting between atheism and deism.
manwithouthat44 1 month ago
@manwithouthat44 I'm hardly angry, and I'm not an atheist. Unfortunately for you, "Athiesm" is not a belief that you can just "choose", which a majority of Atheists don't even know (essentially making them just as stupid as their Christian counterparts). And yes you do want him to talk about "something else". He talked about what he wanted too and got paid for it, when is the last time you did that?
AcruxSolus 1 month ago
@AcruxSolus Lol so because he gets payed to talk and I dont so he can just spout nonsense and evade questions. The title of the video is Sam Harris Considers a Creator. He should have talked about what I said, the idea of a creator. Instead HE DID talk about SOMETHING ELSE. The title of the video should have been, "Sam Harris talks about (the paradoxes of) religion" or a better title "Sam Harris rambles cliched old chestnuts without answering the actual topic/question"
manwithouthat44 1 month ago
Its alarming we need this sort of guy to point out these obvious statements. People are lazy on educating themselves. Im just saying we dont know, almost anything about the nature of reality or if this even is reality. There are for sure some forces acting all the time that we or our modern science do not yet regocnize. It just leaves you with more questions than answers. I'm just saying that learn to live with doubt, accept it and most of all dont be scared of it.
StardustSpaceMonkey 1 month ago
I agreed with everything he said until the last sentence. Even the highest estimate put Christians and Muslims at 3 billion out of the 7 billion people on earth. They are still in the minority.
WillShakespeare2007 1 month ago
So true..
sarainreno30 1 month ago
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FishinFerTruth 1 month ago
YHWH gives everybody a chance to convert to judaism, the religion of his chosen people. it has nothing to do with accidents of birth, you CHOOSE to believe in him and follow his teachings and you'll be saved. it's pretty simple. once you get to feel his infinite glory, wisdom and grace, you'll know FOR SURE that he is the only real god out there. i know it can take a lot of courage to take the first step on your journey to find out what he's like, but you'll surely be rewarded disproportionately
Diosukekun 1 month ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@Diosukekun nonsense.
jd4268 1 month ago
I think this should be titled 'Sam Harris Considers the Veracity of Popular Religions,' as he is not discussing the possibility of a Creator, rather the idea of conflicting religions. Title aside, however, I really like how Mr. Harris uses great examples and analogies to illustrate ideas that other intellectual atheists often present in a difficult-to-discern manner. His relaxed pace and use of layman diction really project his ideas in a way that most people can visualize.
blodj89 1 month ago
Any christian here, please explain this one thing:
Most well informed, intellectual people like scientists are atheist. They are obviously much more educated than us and likely know a lot more about the universe than we do. Why are they uniformly atheist?
Hinduspy 1 month ago
@Hinduspy I'm a Christian. I would like to know exactly where you get your facts about the uniformity of belief among the scientific community. I think that this is not altogether true. I also think that you can be a good scientist, but a poor moralist or philosopher. You cannot find all truth in a lab. And as I have argued before, a grave misstep by these neo atheists is dismissing Christianity as mythic without considering the profound philosophical inquiry it provides.
FishinFerTruth 1 month ago
@FishinFerTruth "I deserve to be in front of this person is evil"
In your example, I think there are circumstances that might exist where someone DESERVES to cut in front. For example, let's say a line 100 people deep surrounds a drinking fountain and 1 person towards the back is dying of dehydration while people at the front are merely filling up water jugs. In this example, I see no 'evil' in a line cut. Obviously, an evaluation of fairness and empathy must transpire. But evil? No.
blaisingm 1 month ago
@blaisingm Well you just confirmed my point. I said that the act of cutting in line was not evil, but the person who sees themself worthy of cutting, because in their own eyes they are of a superior order of being than everyone else, is evil. So, pride is evil. In your example with 100 people and 1 dying of thirst; I agree, there is nothing evil in that act because the act itself is not arising out of one person's belief that they are of superior worth compared to others.
FishinFerTruth 1 month ago
@FishinFerTruth "Well you just confirmed my point."
Oh, perhaps I did confirm your point. Sorry...we are definitely in agreement here.
blaisingm 1 month ago
@FishinFerTruth "This is what we call pride in the Christian world. What do you think?"
I think being a christian requires a great deal of pride. It is difficult to imagine a more prideful and egocentric tenet where people believe they are the pinnacle of creation and "masters of the universe" only usurped by 1 other creature (god). Although this belief isn't evil, it sure is prideful.
blaisingm 1 month ago
@blaisingm Supose this is true: God the Father created mankind and loves them dearly as his creation and as sons and daughters, and gave them his likeness; whereas every other created thing is merely created minus the express image of God. Is it truely prideful then to be a Christian on this premise?
FishinFerTruth 1 month ago
@FishinFerTruth " Is it truely prideful then to be a Christian on this premise?"
The story is about god and what he does and feels..NOT christians. This is NOT what christians do or feel, so it is impossible to ascertain if christians are prideful . Under the premise that this description mirrors reality, then no. One might wonder why god felt it necessary to create or love mankind, I suppose. Is this the premise that all christians agree upon about the nature of reality?
blaisingm 1 month ago
@blaisingm Yes. Misconceptions about true Christian perspective are due mostly to the rampant misrepresentation of it by professed Christians themsevles. Christianity is actually not even a religion, nor is it judgment. It is God's person as ultimacy, the embracing of human frailty and imperfection, and the redemption of mankind. It is, in short, a love story between God the Father and his children whom he loves very much.
FishinFerTruth 1 month ago
@FishinFerTruth "Misconceptions about true Christian perspective"
NOW u're exercising that pride I was talking about missing in your example story about god (why a story about god should reflect christian pride, I don't know). U have no problems proclaiming ownership of the 'true' christian perspective, while other christians are presumably confused. U even offer up a fictitious definition of christianity exempting it from religion status. Perfect examples of pride + delusion.
blaisingm 1 month ago
I promise you, you are mistaken. Because someone knows that they have a solid grip on the fundaments of their faith, and can therefore spot misrepresentations of it, doesn't make them delusional. There is one, single, solitary understanding of some of the core Christian doctrines, and there are offshoots that do not resemble what Christianity teaches, yet assumes the title. Because someone is strongly convicted, doesn't make them prideful. We have to defend something, correct?
FishinFerTruth 1 month ago
@FishinFerTruth "fits your own definition of prideful does it not?"
U're the one that brought up pride and started identifying those with/without pride. What did u mean by 'pride' when u started throwing the word around? What would u call an individual convinced they r in possession of the 'true' christian perspective (exclusive access to the creator of the universe's thoughts) AND denies that christianity is a religion? How many people do u think would agree with ur convictions?
blaisingm 1 month ago
I didn't bring up pride.You assigned it as an alternative label for Christians besides evil.What would I call an individual convinced that their perspective on God is the accurate one? (And by the way, I never said knowledge of God was exclusive; it is actually open to anyone who is willing to find it.) I would call that person Billy Graham, Martin Luther, Augustine of Hippo, the apostle Paul, or the guy at the church down the street. Everyone is convinced they are right, but there is one truth.
FishinFerTruth 1 month ago
@FishinFerTruth "I didn't bring up pride"
You brought up pride initially when u mentioned "christian pride", or lack of. I objected by commenting that it is difficult for me to imagine a less prideful or egocentric tenet than christianity. I offered an example as to why which you strengthened by fabricating a definition for christianity and exempting it as a religion...ur belief system gives you pride assuming I understand its definitions.
blaisingm 1 month ago
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@FishinFerTruth "I would call that person Billy Graham..."
I was looking for an adjective, not a person...If pride doesn't suffice as an adjective to describe your relationship with christianity (as you have suggested), then what adjective would you use to describe: an individual convinced they r in possession of the 'true' christian perspective AND denies that christianity is a religion? Furthermore, how many people do u think would agree that christianity is NOT a religion?
blaisingm 1 month ago
@FishinFerTruth "Everyone is convinced they are right, but there is one truth.
Not everyone clings to certainty the way you do. I'm one of them. Uncertainty and doubt is an exercise in humility BECAUSE you r open to the possibility of being wrong. Unlike you, not everyone has all the answers and is 100% convinced they are right. What other rights do you award yourself (because you are in possession of 'truth') OTHER than exempting christianity as a religion?
blaisingm 1 month ago
@FishinFerTruth "We have to defend something, correct?"
Apparently you do... and, apparently, your defense gives you an exemption from pride. I don't sit around believing in things. I am open to all possibilities ranked in order of highest probability.
blaisingm 1 month ago
@blaisingm Well, then that is just the difference. I have a reason for existence, while you do not. What will your little hierarchy of probabilities matter when you are dead? With that line of reasoning you should be a Christian yourself. Which is more probable: that something is here because someone caused it to be, or reality is an accident? Even science says that "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." Somehow, the existence of everything is exempt from this principle
FishinFerTruth 1 month ago
@FishinFerTruth "I have a reason for existence, while you do not."
Wow! The christian ego is vast indeed. I'd definitely like you to elaborate on this; what makes you think you "have a reason for existence", while I don't?
"What will your little hierarchy of probabilities matter when you are dead?"
I really want to answer this question, but I'll need elaboration. What does death have to do with an openness to all possibilities? I think I know, but don't want to put words in ur mouth.
blaisingm 1 month ago
@FishinFerTruth "Which is more probable: that something is here because someone caused it to be, or reality is an accident?"
Where does this come from? Who claims that "reality is an accident"? Did a scientist say this? Can you cite that individual?
blaisingm 1 month ago
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@FishinFerTruth "someone caused it to be, or reality is an accident?""
Look at ur limited 2 possibility scenarios for reality. In ur first scenario, by saying "someone" u admit that someone other than god could have created reality. So, either u doubt the existence of god OR ur dishonest about ur christian conviction. Neither bodes well for u. 2 possibilities is unimaginative. There are near infinite possibilities concerning origins of the universe. U cant think of any other scenarios?
blaisingm 1 month ago
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FishinFerTruth 1 month ago
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@blaisingm You could say that your most recent response to me in which you took the liberty of characterizing my position as "pride + delusion", fits your own definition of prideful does it not? However, I don't think you're prideful; I believe you are convicted and are thereby defending your beliefs
FishinFerTruth 1 month ago
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Sam Harris
How come people like you just don't get it?
You rather choose to confuse, rather than to enlighten those who listen to you.
Do you really believe people need i Pads and cell phones more, than to understand why
they hate other people enough to kill, without giving it a second thought?
choose ignorance to speak for you, do you?
that's a shame.
k: ).
WolfEyesatNight 2 months ago
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WolfEyesatNight 2 months ago
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WolfEyesatNight 2 months ago
This is the dumbest argument ever. A 3rd grader could destroy this video. Harris is clueless about both books (Bible & Koran). He makes Islam equal to Christianity so it's a "toss up"? "Competing tribes" ? Stupid! The bible doesn't mention Islam as Islam was made up hundreds of years AFTER the bible was written. Islam was made up to compete with Judaism and Christianity. The New Testament clearly teaches that Jesus' disciples didn't compete with anyone or anything. Harris could do better.
ElCubanoConguero 2 months ago
@ElCubanoConguero Your argument is rife with straw man fallacies as is based on a misunderstanding of what Harris said, so addressing your points is useless. Far better to correct your perceptions.
1) The bible/koran are both based on the same desert god mythology and share most of the same characters.
2) Christianity became a formalized religion in 325 AD and Islam began around the year 610 AD, just a few hundred years apart, so yes, Christians and Muslims were contemporary "tribes".
morpheusxnyc 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@ElCubanoConguero
What he says is that the NT (Christianity) claim to the divinity of Jesus is in conflict with the Qur'an's claim that Jesus was not divine. Then there are the differences of opinion between the OT and the Qur'an, and the "tribes" that followed each. Toss to decide which one should be believed.
You recognize Islam was made up (Judaism, Christianity, Taoism, Hindu, Buddhism, etc.)
The Bible wasn't written, btw. It was compiled, and later edited.
Watch again.
saglek 2 months ago
Great!! The idea you mentioned is really funny :D One part of earth will spend rest of life(death) on heaven and one half in hell :D - of course together with atheist...But idea of life after life is sooo nice - It looks to be better to choose one book and have 50% chance to be in heaven, but if you are atheist you have no chance :D.......I 100% agree with you
tomaskvapil 2 months ago
Why would anyone look to the bible for morals? I would rather be a man of ethics. anyone who is god fearing cant be a true man of god in my eyes. Why would god (hypothetically speaking) want blind, thoughtless sheep to keep in (his) company?
66kaisersoza 2 months ago
I think clearly some variant of Christianity is the most attractive of the world religions.
martiandog89 2 months ago
@martiandog89 Not clear at all. Based on attractiveness, I would pick moderate Janism way before I would pick Christianity. It has a much better moral model.
BrooklynRagtag 2 months ago
We'll continue to insult ourselves as long as we give any credence to ancient books like the bible or koran. They're literature, nothing more.
northoforacle 2 months ago
We're pretty lucky god does not exist!
But its fucked up that people really believe he does!
jjoneil73 2 months ago
You now have a perfect account of the creation of the Universe, which puts an end to the conflicting versions.
The Creator has posted a video on YouTube. The message comes to you directly, without the need for transcription or interpretation by iron-age scribes, or analysis by Stephen Hawking.
The video tells you how you came to be here, outlines the meaning and purpose of your life, and gives you an insight into the future of humankind.
See ' God says sorry. '
lacontrabasse 2 months ago
Man, there's always a religious guy trying to preach in science videos. Just go watch a movie about noah and his ark and stop wasting time here.
KrazyKKid 2 months ago 22
@KrazyKKid
Are you dismissing this video as a religious person trying to defend his religiousity in a science forum?
What I take from this is Harris questioning the belief in a Creator. He notes there are many books that propose Gods, The Bible and The Qur'an as two we are familiar with, noting Muslim and Jewish origins, with Christian influences, and referencing Chinese as one society that knew neither.
If there was a God, he asks, wouldn't the revelation be less disputable?
saglek 2 months ago
Lol, Sam Harris just compared the claim of god existing to the whole of humanity being hooked up to the matrix by "Evil aliens." lolololoooloo
Wittgensteinien 2 months ago
Why is he considering all "Holy Books" are equal? No Christian would believe the Quaran, no Muslim would believe the entire Bible. The people that use the book's don't believe they're equal or come from the same place, why would you consider that?
gtu734 2 months ago
i would like to quote a holy book, the Bhagavad Gita, "when your mind leaves behind its dark forest of delusion, you shall go beyond the scriptures of times past and still to come, when your mind, which may be wavering in the contradictions of many scriptures, shall rest unshaken in divine contemplation, the goal of yoga is yours." this man is making a case that it is silly to believe in a god because if you compare world scriptures they seem to conflict. but i tempt you to look in your heart.
DillonDemas 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
So well spoken! Par for the course for Harris.
BrooklynRagtag 2 months ago
Ben Stiller is right...
Sirstingray 2 months ago 49
@Sirstingray You just made my day.
nicolechenowethxo 2 months ago
@Sirstingray I know he looks quite a bit like Ben Stiller, but every time I look at him, I keep seeing/hearing Brian the dog from Family Guy.
morpheusxnyc 2 months ago in playlist Uploaded videos
People operate on a sense of entitlement by misunderstanding the character of God. The current circumstances of the world (death, destruction, suffering) was introduced through the initation of human free will. God doesn't intend suffering, but he allows it to preserve human free will. I know God, he called me to himself when I was 20. I had never read the bible or been to church. Call me crazy if you will, but the essence of God is Love. Jesus has been misrepresented, seek for yourself.
FishinFerTruth 2 months ago
@FishinFerTruth What about free will causes earthquakes or vestigial appendixes, prone to infection, or mortality? Do any of my choices affect these things?
BrooklynRagtag 2 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag "Sin" is more than just the product of human free will, and has more to do with the nature of reality as well as the nature of inherent evil in people when they are born. It is a metaphysical condition that eclipses all of what has been created on earth. It isn't your choice that affects these things, it is the actual premise from which your choices originate, and that is the world in its present state. Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm only relating what know is true.
FishinFerTruth 2 months ago
@FishinFerTruth Sorry...What?!! Are you saying I'm held accountable for things that aren't of my choosing? Are you saying I'm responsible for conditions that existed before I was even born? The things you are saying are really nonsensical. Perhaps you'd like to reformulate them and try again.
BrooklynRagtag 2 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag Sorry, I'm not trying to make my point ambiguous or unclear: What I mean is that "Sin" is so often represented as something like telling a lie or getting drunk when in reality it is so much more than that. It is a condition, the condition in which we all live. Think about rapes, murders, theft (to name just a few evils)--now think about why those have and always will be committed by the human race. It is because sin is part of the metaphysical construction of our reality. -->
FishinFerTruth 2 months ago
@FishinFerTruth So you are saying that we are punished for the metaphysical construction of our reality. That sounds like the same thing as the last post to me. Tell me if I have this correct. You are saying that suffering occurs because we are all born into an unalterable condition of sinfulness. How is suffering preserving our free will and why would a just god punish every single person on the planet just for being born?
BrooklynRagtag 2 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag: We're actually never "punished" in this life. That is what Christ and the apostles spend a lot of their time warning us about. A hurricane or tornado is not punishment, they are just, as I have said, the metaphysical repercussions of sin being introduced into the world. God created the world to be good--well, obviously venomous spiders, disastrous weather, and rampant homicide are not good. This world therefore is not how God intended it. This is a great convo, thanks.
FishinFerTruth 2 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag You know, I find it odd myself that I am defending Christianity when six years ago I would have never defended it. I came to Christianity from an atheistic home in which I could count on one hand how many times we talked about God. My father never mentioned Jesus at all, ever. Despite, this is what I claim: God is real and alive. I know because He spoke to me one night. Love is His motivation, and it is because of love that we are here, that there is something rather than not.
FishinFerTruth 2 months ago
@FishinFerTruth It doesn't sound like you came from an atheistic home. It sounds more like an a-religious home. Those two are very different.
That aside, assuming I grant the literal interpretation of the Christian premise, did God chose the conditions after Adam and Eve ate the fruit or did Adam and Eve? If God chose the conditions, how is suffering not a punishment of all of humanity for the crimes of the first humans?
I'm enjoying this conversation too.
Be Well,
BR
BrooklynRagtag 2 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag You are probably right (a-religious). What happens when a baby's parents are deemed unfit for raising a child due to alcohol abuse, drugs, etc? They take the baby and it becomes an orphan. The child suffers from his/her parents' decisions. If a mother drinks alcohol while pregnant and the child is born with Down Syndrome, the child suffers again. Free will was given to the first humans. God is pure and so were we once, but that changed as did reality at the advent of sin.
FishinFerTruth 2 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag Just a caveat to make my meaning clear: We are not punished for acts committed prior to our existence, however, we have to live under the circumstances by which they were produced. Part of being corruptible and imperfect is being driven by desire. Desire is good, but it is often misplaced. Many Christians condemn sex, certain music, and alcohol. By this, they put words into God's mouth. God loves these things and only wants us to enjoy them in a responsible way.
FishinFerTruth 2 months ago
@FishinFerTruth According to your understanding, did God make the rules of the universe including the consequences for actions?
BrooklynRagtag 2 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag According to my understanding, God stands outside of time and space as we know it and created everything that exists, including cause and effect. God is God, as perfect is perfect, and he is perfect. All that is "not-God" or "of-God" and imperfect is destined for an end. A misconception is that people think the Christian God is a forboding agency waiting to destroy "sinners." Not true. This is the version of Christianity that New Atheists attack. Am I a religous guy? Nope.
FishinFerTruth 2 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag Further, what these NA's attack is a straw man version of Christianity that is easy to dismantle with deductive reasoning. But if you study the "science of fine tuning", and compare that with Christianity, you'll see that the Philosophy of Christianity isn't something you can so easily dispose of. You really have to grapple with it. The problem is that screwed up versions of Christianity are far more common than a presentation of it in its true essence. We need better dialog.
FishinFerTruth 2 months ago
@FishinFerTruth My question is how to distinguish the "true essence" of Christianity from the rest of Christianity. What reliable process could possibly exist to determine what the unobservable creator wants from us? The divergence of Christianity, and of god belief in general, that makes the entire prospect of divine personal revelation highly suspect. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
Best,
BR
BrooklynRagtag 2 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag Hello B.R. Absolutely. Our honest dialog here has inspired me to create a blog to answer any questions anyone may have about Christianity. If you will go to this site I replied to your questions as best as I could: h tee tee pee colon slash slash i will folllow dot blogspot dot com
Thanks!
FishinFerTruth 2 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag Sorry, I realized that my blogpage "iwillfollow," I have mistakenly created with three Ls in the word "follow." So it is iwillfolllow.blogspot.com.
FishinFerTruth 2 months ago
@FishinFerTruth I'm glad that I've inspired you to start something new, and thank you for the very thorough response, however I don't feel you really answered my question. What reliable process can distinguish between the conflicting claims of two people who are both convinced they know the mind of God on a specific issue?
BrooklynRagtag 2 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag Ok. I hope I answered more concisely this time. It is posted. Thanks.
FishinFerTruth 2 months ago
@FishinFerTruth Your answers really are giving me insight into your perspective, however my questions aren't being answered. I suspect Christianity won't have a satisfactory answer for me and I don't think that is your fault. Here's an example of something that seems unjustified to me:
1) Christianity posits a need and a method for redemption
2) A true faith must posit a need and a method for redemption
3) Therefore Christianity is the one true faith.
BrooklynRagtag 2 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag I see. I'm curious then. Given the circumstances of the reality in which we live, where do you think evil comes from? Thoughts are appreciated.
FishinFerTruth 2 months ago
@FishinFerTruth
There is no evil. There is social, and there is anti-social.
Any action that one might consider "evil" is simply one (or a group ultimately encouraged by one) acting in a negative or self-serving manner towards others.
No evil spirit is involved, just one's determination of need or power or satisaction towards another or others.
Social behaviour initiates its own boundaries, for individual preservation among the group. Some members step outside the boundaries.
saglek 2 months ago
@saglek If I may add a bit to your point; evolution has programed us to view anyone who steps outside of the group's boundaries as something malicious. Something to be feared. This predisposes us to believing that there is "evil".
And, for other evolutionary reasons, we're also predisposed to seeing intent behind things in our environment. All of these things create the perfect storm for the illusion of an evil force at work in the world.
SeedsOfHatred 2 months ago
@SeedsOfHatred
I consider that evolution has led us to be conceptual creatures, to a level of thinking about ideas beyond usual senses and requirements.
Peer adherence is a social factor (though one could argue that evolution put us there). I can't answer about environmental intent, unless you are referring to serving human ego but I am not sure how the notion of evil stems from that.
Evil was questioned as a thing. Evil is a conclusion, an adjective, not a thing, in my opinion.
saglek 2 months ago
@saglek This is true.
What I meant, though, is that we're predisposed to seeing a malign intelligence in the world around us because such an ability benefited our ancestors. To illustrate: our ancestors needed to wonder if that's a predator rustling in the grass, or if it's just the wind. For this reason, we're already hard-wired to assign an intent to various things around us, even when there is no actual intent there at all.
Ultimately, you are correct. I was simply elaborating a bit further
SeedsOfHatred 1 month ago
@SeedsOfHatred Man once did assign intent to possible danger.. I think there is a contemporary tendency to identify the conflicting notions to religious ideas as evil at work. Christianity advocates proselytizing and Islam is more extreme regarding those who do not conform. Religions in their more extreme forms require commitment to the belief system and there goes objectivity. A God that created a devil or evil is a confusing God indeed; the same one that gave us logic?
slik937958 1 month ago
@saglek Ok. So you are saying that when a person does what is commonly accepted as "evil," they are merely acting in a way that benefits themselves and simultaneously puts others at a disadvantage?
FishinFerTruth 1 month ago
@FishinFerTruth
What I'm saying is that "evil" doesn't exist as an entity or object.. It is an adjective we use to describe vile behaviour, and that adjective arises out of religious heritage.
That vile behaviour benefits the perpetrator in some way and, to them, negatively impacts the target, whether it actually puts the target at a disadvantage or not. An observer, whether victim or third-party, assesses the damage and assigns the adjective according to their standards.
saglek 1 month ago
@saglek Ok, then my question to you is: What constitutes "vile behavior?" And building from that question: Do you think that there is any act--let's say murder--that is wrong for every person whether or not someone agrees that it is?
FishinFerTruth 1 month ago