Golden's book is just an ignorant view from a foreigner. They will never understand anything other than what they're exposed to in their own countries.
Having read Mineko Iwasaki's 'Geisha of Gion' I take exception to Arthur Golden's inference that geisha are prostitutes. They are not; they are entertainers and entertainers only.
I think what happened here is that Golden wrote a novel. He wrote a fictional story inspired by his perception from the interviews with Geisha and Mineko Iwasaki. I myself read the book and thought it was wonderful. However, since I grew up in America with African parents, I have no idea how accurate the details were. But Golden's mistake was mentioning Mineko in his acknowledgments, because then that gave the story a face, and made it real. I feel terrible for what that mistake has caused her.
Mineko Iwasaki has a much better book of her own out (which is mentioned in the video) called: Geisha, a Life. It's her story and having read both books I could clearly see where he took details from her life and wove them into elements of his story. I highly recommend her book to anyone truly interested in geisha culture...
If you all want 2 know the truth about Geisha then get a library card and go read a BOOK! And no I don't mean Arthur Golden's: "Memoirs of a Geisha" because that's a load of crap. Read a book by Liza Dalby or Lesley Downer. They wrote books on Geisha and their lives that is all fact. Their books are not novels. Or read a book by an actual Geisha like Mineko Iwasaki or Kyoko Aihara! Stop relying on Wikipedia 4 all of your info and please stop fighting when you don't even know what's what!!
sooooo..... Memoirs of a Geisha is fake? wtf they dont make sense! im getting all confused here.... and does Sayuri even exist? Is it really her story? And who exactly is Mineko Iwasaki? Was she even in Memoirs of a Geisha? And if Sayuri does exist.... are there any existing paintings or pictures of her?
@anonymousfemanon Sayuri was based of Iwasaki's life. like she said, almost 90 percent of the book was the story of her life (read both books, the story is similar). ... and he made it seemed like geisha are prostitutes.
That is so rude that an american man would make a book where it makes it seem as if geisha are prostitutes. It just fueled the rumor and vision of what the geisha was to the west and it was simply not true.
@xShadowxPhoenix Well all rock singers do the same thing, all fashion designers do the same thing... I'm sure some geiko are more talented, skilled, charming, charismatic, beautiful, etc.
@xShadowxPhoenix Happens to be just like Actors, how can one be more famous then others if they do the same thing? Well, earnings are more, clients are more. Some are more talented. Etc.
It's still confusing a bit, cause some people say that up until ww2 that's how it was. Liza Dalby says it happened and Mineko says it didn't, but Mineko's a better source. Arther Golden even used her old last name Tanaka in the movie
IT'S A NOVEL!! NOT A CONFESSION! A real Geisha wouldn't refer to her kimono as a "robe". Kimono are actually sacred to Geisha. And they take precautions to make sure their body ISN'T exposed. The author OBVIOUSLY twisted Mineko's words! SHE WROTE AN ACTUAL MEMOIR PEOPLE!! READ IT!
GEIKO DO NOT SELL THEIR BODIES!!! They are there to entertain with their knowledge of art! Maiko train mainly in dance and Geiko in music... among a variety of other artistic abilities. These people twist the truth to make it sound as if they are simply expensive prostitutes! Geisha entertain women as well as men! In fact, men aren't allowed past a certain point in the okiya! FOR HEAVENS SAKE! READ MINEKO IWASAKI'S BOOK! It tells of her life as a Geisha.
I have a question, I read a thousand pages on wikipedia about what is a geisha, and I respect all their customs and their long tradition, but in the movie Memoirs of a Geisha comes to "Sayuri" the geisha her virginity is sold to the highest bidder And Mineko Iwasaki sued the man who published this book because oviously "Sayuri"was a replica of Mineko so Mineko I. added that a geisha's virginity is not the best potor and I want to know right then are a bit just a little prostitutes or what?
@neytiri131 oh my god, she sued him also because he said they sold their virginity, in fact before mid 18's there was prostitute and courtisan (some kind of geisha who dances but also sleeps with customer and sell their virginity during mizuage) but in 1850 they separate courtisan ("oiran") and maiko geiko who sells their art and not their body, so they don't sell their virginity, now durting mieuage they change hair cut from momoware to ofuku that's all
@neytiri131 They are not prostitutes; ESPECIALLY in Gion, Kyoto! :) In the lower-class geisha districts, like hot-springs geisha, now yeah, they kind of are. But where Mineko was a geisha, HECK no!
But for the sake of argument, the "real" geisha are in Kyoto, and they are not prostitutes. Before 1959, the maiko would sell their virginity as a rite of passage, nothing more, just like in Memoirs. However, in Mineko Iwasaki's time, a geisha's sex life would be her own business.
she left in her own free wil, when she was 21 she fcking hugged a guy for the first time, and she was wealthy as child and the rest of her life as well
just for my own hatred towards that american shitbag, i mark every controversy i read in both books.
every page, where it literally says "another reason why selling sex is absurd" or where it says "i left them in my own free will". the books do NOT resemble each other!!
@calculatorINSTINCTS People say that Arthur Golden's book is apparently "inaccurate"; however, mizuage DID exist around the time that his book is written.
@xShadowxPhoenix Yes, I know that mizuage IS a dinner ceremony. However, Mineko was in a FAR different time-period than when Sayuri was. BEFORE 1959, maiko DID sell their virginity. They were not prostitutes, but it was a rite of passage, just like in "Memoirs." Read Lesley Downer's book "Women OF The Pleasure Quarters"; there is a section where many OLDER geisha admit they had their mizuage.
And she went to Gion, not any "lower-class" geisha districts.
@AngelBiLove BUT YOU STILL DON'T SEEM TO REALIZE THAT BEFORE 1959, maiko DID sell their virginity!!!!!!!!!! They were not prostitutes, but it was a rite of passage, just like in "Memoirs." Read Lesley Downer's book "Women OF The Pleasure Quarters"; there is a section where many OLDER geisha admit they had their mizuage. GOD.
And she went to Gion, not any "lower-class" geisha districts. So HA to you!
@FantasticFlutist they never "sold" it and it was NEVER "normal". just before 1959 "it happebed". This fucking video is based ot the bullshit arther golden made up.
There is no doubt that coerced sex and bidding on a new geisha's virginity occurred in the period before WWII... After Japan lost the war, geisha dispersed and the profession was in shambles. When they regrouped during the Occupation and began to flourish in the 1960s during Japan's postwar economic boom, the geisha world changed. In modern Japan, girls are not sold into indentured service, nor are they coerced into sexual relations. Nowadays, a geisha’s sex life is her private affair
Also, reading Golden's "Author's note" at the end, I HONESTLY do not think that at the time at publication he meant ANY harm by it! He is earnestly thanking her. Whether or not she DID tell him to leave her name out, we all will never know; only they two do. I honestly think that it is a case of "He Said, She Said." And for all the people who STILL think he ripped off her life story, grow up and start READING. Read both the books!
People need to start thinking for themselves, god!
Honestly, I DO think Golden's an ass for saying that statement about Mineko selling her virginity on the radio like that! But I still LOVE his book/movie. And yes it is accurate people, save for the mizuage part. I bet half the people condemning Golden have not read both his book AND Mineko's! Well I have, and I can certainly tell you that Golden did NOT "rip off her life story". That part is false.
i read mineko's book and memoirs of a geisha right after each other, and i found that they were actually quite similar except for the whole 'mizuage' concept. though, i found that the memoirs movie was very inacurate mostly because the traditional hairstyles weren't used, and the makeup was too faint. personally, i think memoirs was for entertainment purposes, not for educational. leave the educational stuff to Mineko's book :)
arthur golden should DIE..! how can he do this to her..??!! Makes me mad just thinking about him earning millions and destroying such a beautiful culture..!
@Swankdor Eastern and western contact can be sensitive by nature at times.
The issue is that honor, respect, obligation and integrity are a complicated layered entity in Koryu studies and even modern Japan. This is beyond any relative western concept and therefore somewhat foreign to the western patterns of thought.
Tourists do not realize that they must not touch the kimono of Maiko / Geiko as the walk on the street. It is echiketto outside of their culture. They simply do not know.
@thesecretpathoflife Western people on here just seem to be too emotionally and socially immature to grasp the quality of your training and knowledge or that of any Maiko or Geiko.
Please realize that not all people are that rude or insensitive to these skills and arts.
i would think it would be common sense to not touch the kimono of the geiko. i have never seen a geisha up close but i would not want to interfere with their work. maybe bc i am a girl and when i get ready to go out and i try so hard to look as perfect as possible, i wouldn't want someone to mess up my "creation"..lol!
@saphiredewdrop Unfortunately with the modern changes in social interaction some tourists think nothing of approaching too closely or touching the kimono "just to see how it feels".
This can be very frightening to the Maiko / Geiko to the point that now local townspeople act as security escorts for some on their way to okiya and work.
That female who was interviewing Golden said geish girl. When the U.S soldiers went to Japan after world war two they called prostitutes Geisha girls. Real Geisha are NOT prostitutes nor are they geisha girls!!!!
This decision by Mr. Golden was insulting to Iwasaki-san and to all of the karyūkai.
Her helping him with details was fine, but there is an honor that was expected that was disregarded. I grew up in this Koryu style world and know fully well how it is.
His book is fiction and should be seen as that. Unfortunately, he does not realize the damage he has done nor does he seem to care.
It goes both ways! You can't blame Golden completely, because Mineko is still in the limelight showing westerners parts of the Geisha world as you can see from this video! Golden's book is FICTION. Clearly. When it comes to the world of Geisha, the more we want to know, the more toes will be stepped on. It's irony really. And beautiful in the way that it's so tragically secret. He is a good author, making it seem as though it is true, that is the point. Both sides are to blame, and not to blame.
@InnocentOnPaper It is not inappropriate to talk to Geiko / Maiko especially in their off time, but what goes on within the Koryu, the Okiya and the Ochaya is respected as privately held information. Historical documentation gives a fairly accurate account of the old style versus the modern patterns.
The issue is that Mr. Golden violated his honorable promise of anonymity to Iwasaki-san for her information. Plus he framed it entirely in a fictional manner as if it were truth.
@thesecretpathoflife True, he did a dishonorable thing. I just think that in the business of Media, something such as Geisha should not be mixed. Since it was... well it just seems like something like this would happen. His book was beautiful, but I always take care to remind people that it's fiction when I recomend it to them.
really im just rambling, and have no real point, i think personally, that women can do what they want with theyre bodies, women and girls in japan are no longer sold to geisha houses, so what they do whilst in the geisha roel now is theyre choice. also geisha should acknowlegde that not all geishas had an honorable service, unfortunately some were put through utter shit, (read "autobiography of a geisha") but as it is custom is japanese culture the worst is seldom admitted.
sex is a guarded and secret thing in the society of geisha, but that doesnt mean it doesnt happen, they are humans after all. the procall is not to talk about it, and if it is planned then it will be done so in the most respectable of ways. originally theyre were women called yujo, which were women of pleasure, they trained like geisha, but instead trained in sex, whereas geisha (gei-art and sha-person, or ok-girl/woman) prided themselves on being artists.
i have been studying japanese and esspecially geisha culture for near on 4 years now, and i dont get me wrong i respect mineko and have read her book, but the fact is the book and film (memoirs of a geisha) is just that a book and a film, they werent made as documentaries they were made as entertainment and ultimately geared to capture the interest of western society. mizage did include deflowering in the edo and pre war period, but has now become purely a "coming of age" ceremony
Also, I'd like to point out that if it wasn't for Mineko, we wouldn't know a lot about the world of Geiko. Mineko Iwasaki even stated herself that the world of Geiko is so carefully hidden from the world, it will soon cease to exist, and that they have to start opening up to the outside world to keep their traditions.
Golden completely used her honesty, kindness and good intentions for his own reasons.
The book was lovely and the geiko weren't portrayed badly. But he took all of the traditions and rules and completely distorted them, and that was an insult to the pride of the geiko. Mineko was left with the blame, and she received many death threats.
@nashwok I heartily disagree! No he did NOT take all of the traditions and rules and completely distorted them; the ONLY THING that Golden DID was the whole mizuage concept. Other than that, all the training, all of the kimono and hair and shamisen that Golden wrote about, WAS accurate!
I'm confused...I've read the book two times and never assumed Geisha were prostitutes. I thought that mizuage DID include the 'deflowering' of a Maiko back in the older days; and the scene where Mameha's danna is removing her kimono, Sayuri didn't wish for him to do that, he was basically assaulting her, and hadn't paid her or anything of the sort. I know the book is inaccurate, but am I the only one who never thought they were portrayed as prostitutes?
@Kagome811 No, I didn't either. But that's not really why the geiko were so upset. The public didn't start thinking that geiko are prostitutes. The geiko were upset because they had REALLY strict rules about no sex. And to hear that mizuage (which isn't even deflowering, mizuage was just a party, and also a monthly paycheck for every maiko) was the deflowering of a geiko was insulting to them, and Mineko received all of the blame and death threats.
she wrote her own book. Her own autobiography with her own name on it. She also tried to did sue him with the book AND The Film. She never deserved this.
Urgh, this American presenter/anchorman's way of speaking is really annoying. The way he pronounces the Japanese names is fucking annoying too!
I don't agree with what Arthur Golden has done - the fact Mineko-san wrote her own book proves what he said about her life is lies and that she would not expose the traditional silence of the karyuukai otherwise. I am grateful that she wrote a book though to see the beautiful and rare world of geisha.
@IceQueen975 The book off Mineko Iwasaki is geisha off gion or geisha a life and yes its in english. the two titles is one for the american and one for the british.
good lord!! and I read this book! what a disgrace if aurther was Japanese i'd make HIM commit suicide! what he did was wrong! did he have anything to do with the movie? because in the movie, she was not portrayed as a prostitute!. that I know of, it is one of my favorite movies, but now, it makes me feel like it was a sin to like something that was based on a real geishas life.. with lies entwined. I feel remorse for her, and am glad she chose to not commit suicide.
@VKQueenVamp Did you even READ Mineko's book?? I respect her, but you HONESTLY must be joking to think that Golden DID rip off of Mineko's life story! The fact of the matter is that he DID NOT. He. Did. Not. Yes, I agree he should not have mentioned her name, but come on! The two stories are ENTIRELY different, save for the fact that Sayuri and Mineko were both geisha and went through training; et cetera, and so on.
wow that Geisha talking at 10 34 her english is really good love her accent shes so sweet and the geisha whos the subject of the book she seems really nice too
@Cimmcia yeah he did and if she had killed herself[thank god she didnt ]it be her blood on his hands i feel so bad for her and seeing her cry i just wanted to give her a hug poor woman
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
the amount of naïveté in these comments is hilarious...you guys honestly believe they don't make a KILLING off prostitution? put yourself in their cloppy platform shoes for a second: you take in one wrinkly dick attached to a multi-millionaire and you're set for life, how important is your virginity now?
and why feel sorry for her after she broke their cardinal rule and cheapened the whole profession? she gave it all up for an EVIL AMERICAN and got duped, why should any of you care?
@jacksonlefteye Sorry but I find your comment rude and single minded, First of all we dont actually know if they sell thier bodies do we? Second, It doesnt matter if they do or dont, It is a costom that has been followed for years and years, Yes she shouldnt have spilled the beans and she paying for it now but you know what? He shouldnt have put her name in the book! Third, virginity isn't something that any woman should sell, It's a choice that should be taken seriously.So Not even for millons!
you're right, there's no concrete evidence that they prostitute themselves, but isn't that part of the appeal? my point was that it's silly to assume that they ALL take that lifestyle seriously, common sense dictates otherwise
secondly, it DOES appear to matter if they do or don't, why don't you watch this video again?
why is a woman's virginity so sacred as to set herself up for such potential humiliations? don't you understand how frivolous it really is?
@jacksonlefteye -.-'' Are you male or female? Whatever the case, A womans virginity is something that once lost can never be taken back. Some people can't understand this and that pains me,It IS something sacred, Its something a woman should wait until shes married and has chosen the right man to give. Sex is the act of mating of bringing a new life into this world, Not something for our pleasure,Yes it does 'Feel good' but no amount of money can justify losing something irreplaceable until--
@jacksonlefteye --Marrage to the right person, or until she KNOWS its the right time..not just"I love him" Or " Ineed the money and I'll be set for life"
I hate what this damned world has become! Fuck money,Fuck being popular! Fuck whatever made people think that their worthless..That they cant vaule them self, Women and children are what carry on mankind and men who respect women and children are worth their weight gold. saddly their a rarity, huh? well I'm done speaking. good day.
YES!!! SET THE WORLD AFLAME!!! just do me a favor, next time you're pondering your worth and thinking you're all extra special, realize that you're one of over 6 billion people alive on the planet at that moment, that you're essentially a worthless mess (which any human being is), a beast whose brain evolved WAY too fast that keeps telling itself that its own desires and feelings are bad and against the status quo, and you basically just do what you're told to simply get by
@jacksonlefteye I'm not anybetter then anyone else, nor do I treat them anyworse then I would teat meself, I just have my morals and stick to them. And humans arnt 'a wothless mess' Every single human being has worth and IS Extra Special, Even you are, you have your own memories and thoughts and emotions and your own words to speak. Granted I'm not perfect, nobody is.
Poor woman, I never knew this! So he used her and then threw her away. Motherfucker!!! He should be ashamed. Now she has worse faith than death. Nobody talks to her. Jesus, poor woman!
The point is not that it isn't about her or any other real Geisha, it's that he ruined the culture, brought back all the lies, and Mineko was blamed for it. That is NOT right.
Wow, she was going to kill herself. I didn't know that they still did that in Japan, as a dishonor ritual of some sort, or I guess when they have shamed themselves. That's jacked up how things turned out for her :(
Not sure if anyone's made this observation yet but Mineko Iwasaki chose to be interviewed by Arthur Golden which was surely breaking the Geisha code regardless of whether she was named or not?
I was hitherto unaware of this disagreement and it's sad there has been all this. I first read Memoirs and then Mineko Iwasaki's book, both are excellent although there was more of an authenticity to Mineko's obviously and loved all the photos. :)
Not sure if anyone's made this observation yet but Mineko Iwasaki chose to be interviewed by Arthur Golden which was surely breaking the Geisha code regardless of whether she was named or not?
I was hitherto unaware of this disagreement and it's sad there has been all this. I first read Memoirs and then Mineko Iwasaki's book, both are excellent although there was more of an authenticity to Mineko's obviously and loved all the photos. :)
That's what happened when a greedy american tried to meddle with somebody's else life. They broked promises, they lied, and defamed others just to make more money.
Golden should be able to understand common sense. A geisha speaking to you about what they do or do not do. I wouldn't mention the name of the source. But he was out for himself and the holy dollar instead of creating a story without harming others.
I'm sorry -- but she cries about the honor of a promise, meanwhile having been THE person to break the code of the Geisha. She says her lawsuit wasn't about money but rather to get the book OFF shelves -- but she sued for a cut of what was sold. If you read this woman's book, you can see how false she is. *She* is the one who betrayed the culture of the Geisha.
He shouldn't have cheated her like that. Should have confirmed her permission before publishing her name. Having face, honour and respect are very important in one's culture. To tarnish Mimeko's name (and all other geishas) like that - extremely wrong - and to clear it, means to pay it with one's own life. I'm glad Mimeko used a less ritual (seppuku) route to settle this.
The life of a Geisha - beautiful entertainers, not prosititutes. They should keep this old tradition alive.
*She* tarnished the tradition of the Geisha. She did it...not Golden. Golden is a westerner. We are fascinated with cultures in general and certainly with this one. He asked her point-blank questions and she point-blank answered them...she is the one who spilled, not he. He would not otherwise have known a lot of this stuff. She is an opportunist.
I hate how sexual the commentary made the geisha seem. Is it that hard for people to believe that a woman can make a man feel good without dancing around naked or sleeping with him?
And I refuse to read that book or watch the movie based off of it. It is very sad and cruel what he did to an art form that is in such a fragile state right now.
The thing that makes me mad about Golden was that he cited Mineko as a source when she told him not to. That's just lame, right there. His book and the movie of Memoirs of a Geisha are definitely entertaining but...it is soo inaccurate...
@orgoik Wow. I HEARTILY disagree with your asinine comment (about the inaccuracy of MOAG; nothing else.) I agree he should have left her name out of it, but I have to draw the line there. The book is VERY accurate. The hairstyles, the kimono, entertaining, dance, shamisen....all are VERY accurate in Golden's book. He relied heavily on his own research, LIZA DALBY, and more, in addition to Mineko. THE ONLY thing NOT accurate is the part about mizuage and selling your virginity.
@orgoik Furthermore, if you have ever watched the movie and looked back at the EXTRAS; most notably, "Geisha Bootcamp", they called in Liza Dalby to help the actresses learn to play the shamisen and walk right so their kimonos "flow", and everything. She also helped with makeup, too! Also, they additionally called in a traditional Japanese dance instructor to help with dance and comportment. So the movie is also accurate, JUST like the book, except, again, for the virginity part.
@orgoik Furthermore, I read Mineko's book as well, and very much enjoyed it, may I add, and the only thing I got out of it that was FALSE from Memoirs was the actual meaning of "mizuage"; the rest was very much confirmed. So please, before spouting off that Memoirs is inaccurate, do some research.
@TJUDO6 He didn't "ruin the culture of the Japanese" any more than the severe and ongoing inconsistencies of the movie Braveheart ruined the traditions of the Scots. It is a novel. It is fiction. It states so on the cover itself. Did you read "Raptor Red" and believed those were the things an actual dinosaur actually thought? That she had a name for herself and all that? Historical *fiction* IS FICTION. Historical accuracy is a textbook or reference book. How could anyone not know that?
@MelsieH67 I know the main story came from his imagination but he shouldn't have quoted her name. It made this fictional book seem like it was based on facts.
The cat was already out of the bag. The lives of Geisha were shown brutally clear in the 1936 film "Sisters of Gion". It's considered the greatest Japanese film of the pre-war era. If anything, Golden's book, and the film made from it, were basically over romanticized soap operas. But, that's what makes some of the best fiction.
Talk about a screw up! Instead of bringing understanding about an often misunderstood professional, Memoirs of a Geisha, just caused more misunderstanding and hard feelings all around.
@RoninDave IT'S FICTION, people. There ISN'T a responsibility to "bring understanding" about anything. It was not a reference book. It was not a textbook. Do you believe Ringo Starr's movie Caveman brought severe misunderstandings to the world of the Cro-Magnon? People, please. It is fiction. It boldly says so right on the cover. "With the help of" or "input of" does not mean it's a work of NON-fiction. Yes, he wanted to sell books. He's an author! Duh.
@MelsieH67 sorry but your condescending tone about MOG being merely fiction is not going to wash. It's a fiction only in the sense that the characters names are different but real enough to cause real people problems.
You seem to have personal ax to grind with the number of responses you have put her. And please tell me you did not compare this with a book about dinosaurs as a basis for your argument on fiction - that's just incredibly lame.
@RoninDave I want to get indignant over these comments but it's hard to when I'm too busy feeling sorry for people that manipulators like this woman have made a ton of money off of. By the way, "ax to grind" isn't the correct saying (look it up) but I'm pretty sure I know what you meant. No, I have no agenda...except being particularly icked-out by manipulators and users.
@MelsieH67 Mineko isn't a manipulator. Do you think she would risk her fame and good name and her friends and family just ot get moremoney? She is a former geisha for goodness' sake,do you know how much money they have? she cried because of his betrayal, she lost friends, the geisha hate her now, and all because one stupid man without any common sense broke a promise.
I feel horrible that such a feud went on between the two. I decided to look up geisha/geiko videos since I'm again rereading Mineko Iwasaki's book 'Geisha, A Life.' I do admit though that Golden's book really did boarder a heck of a lot on hers, although after letting the cat out of the bag, I'm happy she came back with her own book.
I would like to find a memoir or something from a regular class geisha though. That would be more insightful.
@Fluffymiyster the only thing didnt like about her book was that she had an affair with her husband before she married him (he was still married at the time). I know geisha are not prostitutes but she really shouldnt have done that. but it interesting to she how hard they have to work. and the differnt stage of their career.
I don't remember her having an affair on her husband. The man 'Toshio' was married though, and yes, I agree that she shouldn't have been with him while he was, weather he claimed he was going to divorce his wife or not. She should've waited until everything was finalized. She helped to fudge up the misconceptions of geisha there...
@Fluffymiyster I read both too, and that is CRAP right there! Golden's book in NO way "bordered a heck of a lot on her's!" Both are ENTIRELY different.
And how was her book NOT insightful? At any rate, try "Autobiography of a Geisha", by Sayo Masuda. She came from a lower-class geisha society, but nevertheless, that might prove to be just what you are looking for in terms of regular class. I have read it; admittedly, I prefer Golden's and Mineko's MUCH more, but it was still interesting.
@FantasticFlutist Mineko's life was indeed a lot different than the characters Sayuri but you can see some semblances. Example, the character Hatsumomo could very easily be Mineko's older sister Yaeko. Auntie seems to play the part of Auntie Oima (I believe that was her name from Mineko's book). The Chairman could be the older actor that Mineko met as well. Character-wise, they have similarities but if you're just speaking of plot, then no.
@Fluffymiyster Ahhh, yeah, I can see the Auntie Oima part, definitely. :) But actually, to me it did not seem that Yaeko did that much to Mineko, at least to me, lol.
@FantasticFlutist The girl's first ozashiki she entered, Yaeko started to talk down about her right in front of the customers. I do applaud Mineko for succeeding without a big sister considering she had to create customers nearly from scratch without using a big sister to help bridge relations. She had a strong support structure at home but without anyone actually on the job to assist, this is where I say Yaeko really hurt her (granted, I'm shy and without a big sister, I *would* fail, lol!)
@Fluffymiyster Ahhh. Well, I did read the book awhile ago, lol. :) But yes, I agree. I am the same way, and I would probably fail too. I really want to go to Japan someday, lol. Kyoto is at the top of my list. :)
And BTW, sorry, Re-reading my first comment to you, it seems really rude. D: I didn't mean it to seem that way, so sorry!! :(
I feel bad for her, all this over some ignorant American.
MzExquisite 6 days ago
Golden's book is just an ignorant view from a foreigner. They will never understand anything other than what they're exposed to in their own countries.
MzExquisite 6 days ago
I'm from America and even i say he's a stupid American just trying to make easy money. >=(
ThePenNinja81 1 week ago
Having read Mineko Iwasaki's 'Geisha of Gion' I take exception to Arthur Golden's inference that geisha are prostitutes. They are not; they are entertainers and entertainers only.
ngamo52Nick 2 weeks ago
I really don't like this presenter 0o.
indicatedlies 1 month ago
I think what happened here is that Golden wrote a novel. He wrote a fictional story inspired by his perception from the interviews with Geisha and Mineko Iwasaki. I myself read the book and thought it was wonderful. However, since I grew up in America with African parents, I have no idea how accurate the details were. But Golden's mistake was mentioning Mineko in his acknowledgments, because then that gave the story a face, and made it real. I feel terrible for what that mistake has caused her.
sarahbelle988 1 month ago
drzt49- they're not whores. you can go fuck yourself because the japanese culture is beautiful.
Lily10138 1 month ago 3
Japanese whores
dzrt49 1 month ago
he has no heart to burn the flame of her family's name. he should be the one wanting to die, not her.
MeyerCassandre 1 month ago
stupid american, dont know shit about Geisha, he deserves to be sued
eplayersus 2 months ago
Mineko Iwasaki has a much better book of her own out (which is mentioned in the video) called: Geisha, a Life. It's her story and having read both books I could clearly see where he took details from her life and wove them into elements of his story. I highly recommend her book to anyone truly interested in geisha culture...
MiChi33304 2 months ago
He didn't put himself in that 'thinking' he used Mineko's story
xShadowxPhoenix 2 months ago
To sum it up, Arthur Golden is a money-grubbing, sick bastard :D
xDITTOxDITx 3 months ago 4
If you all want 2 know the truth about Geisha then get a library card and go read a BOOK! And no I don't mean Arthur Golden's: "Memoirs of a Geisha" because that's a load of crap. Read a book by Liza Dalby or Lesley Downer. They wrote books on Geisha and their lives that is all fact. Their books are not novels. Or read a book by an actual Geisha like Mineko Iwasaki or Kyoko Aihara! Stop relying on Wikipedia 4 all of your info and please stop fighting when you don't even know what's what!!
jinnyboy8 3 months ago
sooooo..... Memoirs of a Geisha is fake? wtf they dont make sense! im getting all confused here.... and does Sayuri even exist? Is it really her story? And who exactly is Mineko Iwasaki? Was she even in Memoirs of a Geisha? And if Sayuri does exist.... are there any existing paintings or pictures of her?
anonymousfemanon 3 months ago
@anonymousfemanon Sayuri was based of Iwasaki's life. like she said, almost 90 percent of the book was the story of her life (read both books, the story is similar). ... and he made it seemed like geisha are prostitutes.
chanchancacao 2 weeks ago
thats fucked up :(
TheSimonee123 3 months ago
That is so rude that an american man would make a book where it makes it seem as if geisha are prostitutes. It just fueled the rumor and vision of what the geisha was to the west and it was simply not true.
10HitsugayaToshiro 4 months ago
i would love to be a geisha i feel that there is great honor in japan's history as well as it's pride
darkfire2you 4 months ago
i'm not trying to bash geiko/maiko's but I wonder how one can be more famous than the next if they all do the same thing
xShadowxPhoenix 4 months ago
@xShadowxPhoenix Well all rock singers do the same thing, all fashion designers do the same thing... I'm sure some geiko are more talented, skilled, charming, charismatic, beautiful, etc.
gentleradical 4 months ago
@xShadowxPhoenix Happens to be just like Actors, how can one be more famous then others if they do the same thing? Well, earnings are more, clients are more. Some are more talented. Etc.
IchisumiSan 3 months ago
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FantasticFlutist 5 months ago
A great deal of misconception...
Like listening to the neighbors speculate on what the toilet looks like when observing from them from the inside out.
It's quite simple and not so mysterious, but we don't really want to discuss the toilet.
thesecretpathoflife 6 months ago
Komomo-san from Gion Kobu at 10:32. She's the only Geiko I know of that speaks English. Her voice sounds so sweet! <3
Lindethiel 6 months ago
Yeah, all that book/movie did was show that sayuri was famous just for being the most expensive to sleep with
xShadowxPhoenix 6 months ago
those poor kitten's
konatafan9 6 months ago
All because of you,
I haven't slept in so long,
When I do I dream of drowning in the ocean,
Longing for the shore where I can lay my head down,
I'll follow your voice,
All you have to do is shout it out.
ClockworkTowers 6 months ago
@ClockworkTowers Wow such beautiful verses, may i know where they are from ?
shrynakesavan 6 months ago
It's still confusing a bit, cause some people say that up until ww2 that's how it was. Liza Dalby says it happened and Mineko says it didn't, but Mineko's a better source. Arther Golden even used her old last name Tanaka in the movie
xShadowxPhoenix 7 months ago
IT'S A NOVEL!! NOT A CONFESSION! A real Geisha wouldn't refer to her kimono as a "robe". Kimono are actually sacred to Geisha. And they take precautions to make sure their body ISN'T exposed. The author OBVIOUSLY twisted Mineko's words! SHE WROTE AN ACTUAL MEMOIR PEOPLE!! READ IT!
lyla951217 7 months ago 11
GEIKO DO NOT SELL THEIR BODIES!!! They are there to entertain with their knowledge of art! Maiko train mainly in dance and Geiko in music... among a variety of other artistic abilities. These people twist the truth to make it sound as if they are simply expensive prostitutes! Geisha entertain women as well as men! In fact, men aren't allowed past a certain point in the okiya! FOR HEAVENS SAKE! READ MINEKO IWASAKI'S BOOK! It tells of her life as a Geisha.
lyla951217 7 months ago 3
I do not understand very well: l. I hope you can clarify me thank you very much:)
neytiri131 8 months ago
I have a question, I read a thousand pages on wikipedia about what is a geisha, and I respect all their customs and their long tradition, but in the movie Memoirs of a Geisha comes to "Sayuri" the geisha her virginity is sold to the highest bidder And Mineko Iwasaki sued the man who published this book because oviously "Sayuri"was a replica of Mineko so Mineko I. added that a geisha's virginity is not the best potor and I want to know right then are a bit just a little prostitutes or what?
neytiri131 8 months ago
@neytiri131 oh my god, she sued him also because he said they sold their virginity, in fact before mid 18's there was prostitute and courtisan (some kind of geisha who dances but also sleeps with customer and sell their virginity during mizuage) but in 1850 they separate courtisan ("oiran") and maiko geiko who sells their art and not their body, so they don't sell their virginity, now durting mieuage they change hair cut from momoware to ofuku that's all
madmarre 7 months ago
@neytiri131 They are not prostitutes; ESPECIALLY in Gion, Kyoto! :) In the lower-class geisha districts, like hot-springs geisha, now yeah, they kind of are. But where Mineko was a geisha, HECK no!
But for the sake of argument, the "real" geisha are in Kyoto, and they are not prostitutes. Before 1959, the maiko would sell their virginity as a rite of passage, nothing more, just like in Memoirs. However, in Mineko Iwasaki's time, a geisha's sex life would be her own business.
FantasticFlutist 6 months ago
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thesecretpathoflife 8 months ago
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thesecretpathoflife 8 months ago
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thesecretpathoflife 8 months ago
poor fishers girl my ass
she left in her own free wil, when she was 21 she fcking hugged a guy for the first time, and she was wealthy as child and the rest of her life as well
just for my own hatred towards that american shitbag, i mark every controversy i read in both books.
every page, where it literally says "another reason why selling sex is absurd" or where it says "i left them in my own free will". the books do NOT resemble each other!!
AngelBiLove 8 months ago
i read Golden's book and Iwasaki's. and I swear that if i ever meet arthur golden i will piss on him for ruining a culture and condeming an art!
AngelBiLove 8 months ago
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Oriseon 8 months ago
Before the war, a maiko's virginity would be auctioned (the original "mizuage")[20][21]—this was outlawed in 1959.
HA!
FantasticFlutist 9 months ago
@FantasticFlutist 建前
thesecretpathoflife 9 months ago
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Oriseon 8 months ago
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thesecretpathoflife 8 months ago
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Oriseon 8 months ago
@FantasticFlutist what's your point? o.0
calculatorINSTINCTS 8 months ago
@calculatorINSTINCTS People say that Arthur Golden's book is apparently "inaccurate"; however, mizuage DID exist around the time that his book is written.
FantasticFlutist 8 months ago
@FantasticFlutist It's a dinner ceremony not selling virginity
xShadowxPhoenix 8 months ago
@xShadowxPhoenix Yes, I know that mizuage IS a dinner ceremony. However, Mineko was in a FAR different time-period than when Sayuri was. BEFORE 1959, maiko DID sell their virginity. They were not prostitutes, but it was a rite of passage, just like in "Memoirs." Read Lesley Downer's book "Women OF The Pleasure Quarters"; there is a section where many OLDER geisha admit they had their mizuage.
And she went to Gion, not any "lower-class" geisha districts.
FantasticFlutist 6 months ago
@FantasticFlutist no. Prostitution was legal until 1959. Geishas then were still not prostitutes. HA!
AngelBiLove 8 months ago
@AngelBiLove BUT YOU STILL DON'T SEEM TO REALIZE THAT BEFORE 1959, maiko DID sell their virginity!!!!!!!!!! They were not prostitutes, but it was a rite of passage, just like in "Memoirs." Read Lesley Downer's book "Women OF The Pleasure Quarters"; there is a section where many OLDER geisha admit they had their mizuage. GOD.
And she went to Gion, not any "lower-class" geisha districts. So HA to you!
FantasticFlutist 6 months ago
@FantasticFlutist they never "sold" it and it was NEVER "normal". just before 1959 "it happebed". This fucking video is based ot the bullshit arther golden made up.
AngelBiLove 6 months ago
There is no doubt that coerced sex and bidding on a new geisha's virginity occurred in the period before WWII... After Japan lost the war, geisha dispersed and the profession was in shambles. When they regrouped during the Occupation and began to flourish in the 1960s during Japan's postwar economic boom, the geisha world changed. In modern Japan, girls are not sold into indentured service, nor are they coerced into sexual relations. Nowadays, a geisha’s sex life is her private affair
Liza Dalby
FantasticFlutist 9 months ago
Also, reading Golden's "Author's note" at the end, I HONESTLY do not think that at the time at publication he meant ANY harm by it! He is earnestly thanking her. Whether or not she DID tell him to leave her name out, we all will never know; only they two do. I honestly think that it is a case of "He Said, She Said." And for all the people who STILL think he ripped off her life story, grow up and start READING. Read both the books!
People need to start thinking for themselves, god!
FantasticFlutist 9 months ago
Honestly, I DO think Golden's an ass for saying that statement about Mineko selling her virginity on the radio like that! But I still LOVE his book/movie. And yes it is accurate people, save for the mizuage part. I bet half the people condemning Golden have not read both his book AND Mineko's! Well I have, and I can certainly tell you that Golden did NOT "rip off her life story". That part is false.
FantasticFlutist 9 months ago
i read mineko's book and memoirs of a geisha right after each other, and i found that they were actually quite similar except for the whole 'mizuage' concept. though, i found that the memoirs movie was very inacurate mostly because the traditional hairstyles weren't used, and the makeup was too faint. personally, i think memoirs was for entertainment purposes, not for educational. leave the educational stuff to Mineko's book :)
Fanpire16 9 months ago
arthur golden should DIE..! how can he do this to her..??!! Makes me mad just thinking about him earning millions and destroying such a beautiful culture..!
Swankdor 9 months ago
@Swankdor This connection involved the principles and adherence to Giri and Koei of which Mr. Golden seems to have had little knowledge.
One cannot scold an unknowing child. One can only point out the way of improvement and address the current situation consequences.
However, responsibility and accountability would warrant a public apology of humility from an adult.
The karyūkai is not ruined, only tarnished in a way that must be carefully polished.
thesecretpathoflife 9 months ago
@Swankdor Eastern and western contact can be sensitive by nature at times.
The issue is that honor, respect, obligation and integrity are a complicated layered entity in Koryu studies and even modern Japan. This is beyond any relative western concept and therefore somewhat foreign to the western patterns of thought.
Tourists do not realize that they must not touch the kimono of Maiko / Geiko as the walk on the street. It is echiketto outside of their culture. They simply do not know.
thesecretpathoflife 9 months ago 54
@thesecretpathoflife Western people on here just seem to be too emotionally and socially immature to grasp the quality of your training and knowledge or that of any Maiko or Geiko.
Please realize that not all people are that rude or insensitive to these skills and arts.
Oriseon 8 months ago 18
@Oriseon I don't like this whole eastern mysterious cultural superiority everyone here is espousing. It's simply different, that's all.
SarahLee1 1 month ago
@thesecretpathoflife
i would think it would be common sense to not touch the kimono of the geiko. i have never seen a geisha up close but i would not want to interfere with their work. maybe bc i am a girl and when i get ready to go out and i try so hard to look as perfect as possible, i wouldn't want someone to mess up my "creation"..lol!
saphiredewdrop 6 months ago
@saphiredewdrop Unfortunately with the modern changes in social interaction some tourists think nothing of approaching too closely or touching the kimono "just to see how it feels".
This can be very frightening to the Maiko / Geiko to the point that now local townspeople act as security escorts for some on their way to okiya and work.
thesecretpathoflife 5 months ago
Wow I never seen this video before, Mineko was right the author paint Geisha in a different way and made her look bad
ileyam2712 9 months ago
He's such a pig
xShadowxPhoenix 9 months ago
That female who was interviewing Golden said geish girl. When the U.S soldiers went to Japan after world war two they called prostitutes Geisha girls. Real Geisha are NOT prostitutes nor are they geisha girls!!!!
KatjasHumanoid483 9 months ago
This decision by Mr. Golden was insulting to Iwasaki-san and to all of the karyūkai.
Her helping him with details was fine, but there is an honor that was expected that was disregarded. I grew up in this Koryu style world and know fully well how it is.
His book is fiction and should be seen as that. Unfortunately, he does not realize the damage he has done nor does he seem to care.
thesecretpathoflife 9 months ago 2
It goes both ways! You can't blame Golden completely, because Mineko is still in the limelight showing westerners parts of the Geisha world as you can see from this video! Golden's book is FICTION. Clearly. When it comes to the world of Geisha, the more we want to know, the more toes will be stepped on. It's irony really. And beautiful in the way that it's so tragically secret. He is a good author, making it seem as though it is true, that is the point. Both sides are to blame, and not to blame.
InnocentOnPaper 10 months ago
@InnocentOnPaper It is not inappropriate to talk to Geiko / Maiko especially in their off time, but what goes on within the Koryu, the Okiya and the Ochaya is respected as privately held information. Historical documentation gives a fairly accurate account of the old style versus the modern patterns.
The issue is that Mr. Golden violated his honorable promise of anonymity to Iwasaki-san for her information. Plus he framed it entirely in a fictional manner as if it were truth.
thesecretpathoflife 9 months ago
@thesecretpathoflife True, he did a dishonorable thing. I just think that in the business of Media, something such as Geisha should not be mixed. Since it was... well it just seems like something like this would happen. His book was beautiful, but I always take care to remind people that it's fiction when I recomend it to them.
InnocentOnPaper 9 months ago
really im just rambling, and have no real point, i think personally, that women can do what they want with theyre bodies, women and girls in japan are no longer sold to geisha houses, so what they do whilst in the geisha roel now is theyre choice. also geisha should acknowlegde that not all geishas had an honorable service, unfortunately some were put through utter shit, (read "autobiography of a geisha") but as it is custom is japanese culture the worst is seldom admitted.
flaggerssmell 10 months ago
sex is a guarded and secret thing in the society of geisha, but that doesnt mean it doesnt happen, they are humans after all. the procall is not to talk about it, and if it is planned then it will be done so in the most respectable of ways. originally theyre were women called yujo, which were women of pleasure, they trained like geisha, but instead trained in sex, whereas geisha (gei-art and sha-person, or ok-girl/woman) prided themselves on being artists.
flaggerssmell 10 months ago
i have been studying japanese and esspecially geisha culture for near on 4 years now, and i dont get me wrong i respect mineko and have read her book, but the fact is the book and film (memoirs of a geisha) is just that a book and a film, they werent made as documentaries they were made as entertainment and ultimately geared to capture the interest of western society. mizage did include deflowering in the edo and pre war period, but has now become purely a "coming of age" ceremony
flaggerssmell 10 months ago
Also, I'd like to point out that if it wasn't for Mineko, we wouldn't know a lot about the world of Geiko. Mineko Iwasaki even stated herself that the world of Geiko is so carefully hidden from the world, it will soon cease to exist, and that they have to start opening up to the outside world to keep their traditions.
Golden completely used her honesty, kindness and good intentions for his own reasons.
nashwok 10 months ago
The book was lovely and the geiko weren't portrayed badly. But he took all of the traditions and rules and completely distorted them, and that was an insult to the pride of the geiko. Mineko was left with the blame, and she received many death threats.
nashwok 10 months ago
@nashwok I heartily disagree! No he did NOT take all of the traditions and rules and completely distorted them; the ONLY THING that Golden DID was the whole mizuage concept. Other than that, all the training, all of the kimono and hair and shamisen that Golden wrote about, WAS accurate!
FantasticFlutist 9 months ago
I'm confused...I've read the book two times and never assumed Geisha were prostitutes. I thought that mizuage DID include the 'deflowering' of a Maiko back in the older days; and the scene where Mameha's danna is removing her kimono, Sayuri didn't wish for him to do that, he was basically assaulting her, and hadn't paid her or anything of the sort. I know the book is inaccurate, but am I the only one who never thought they were portrayed as prostitutes?
Kagome811 10 months ago
@Kagome811 No, I didn't either. But that's not really why the geiko were so upset. The public didn't start thinking that geiko are prostitutes. The geiko were upset because they had REALLY strict rules about no sex. And to hear that mizuage (which isn't even deflowering, mizuage was just a party, and also a monthly paycheck for every maiko) was the deflowering of a geiko was insulting to them, and Mineko received all of the blame and death threats.
nashwok 10 months ago
@nashwok I see, thank you for the clarification.
Kagome811 10 months ago
she wrote her own book. Her own autobiography with her own name on it. She also tried to did sue him with the book AND The Film. She never deserved this.
SinorBlim 10 months ago
Urgh, this American presenter/anchorman's way of speaking is really annoying. The way he pronounces the Japanese names is fucking annoying too!
I don't agree with what Arthur Golden has done - the fact Mineko-san wrote her own book proves what he said about her life is lies and that she would not expose the traditional silence of the karyuukai otherwise. I am grateful that she wrote a book though to see the beautiful and rare world of geisha.
DraculasHotBride 10 months ago
@DraculasHotBride Would you mind me asking what the title of the book is and if it's in English?
IceQueen975 10 months ago
@IceQueen975 The book off Mineko Iwasaki is geisha off gion or geisha a life and yes its in english. the two titles is one for the american and one for the british.
kirstyana 10 months ago
I could not finish watching all of this. For anyone who has read the book, in no way were any of the Geisha's shown as selling themselves to men.
I have to wonder if she ever read the book.
He should have left her name out of it, if that is what she wanted. But the rest of her crazy accusations about the book are false.
RGRandell 10 months ago
They were not portrayed as prostitutes in the book.
RGRandell 10 months ago
good lord!! and I read this book! what a disgrace if aurther was Japanese i'd make HIM commit suicide! what he did was wrong! did he have anything to do with the movie? because in the movie, she was not portrayed as a prostitute!. that I know of, it is one of my favorite movies, but now, it makes me feel like it was a sin to like something that was based on a real geishas life.. with lies entwined. I feel remorse for her, and am glad she chose to not commit suicide.
VKQueenVamp 11 months ago
@VKQueenVamp Did you even READ Mineko's book?? I respect her, but you HONESTLY must be joking to think that Golden DID rip off of Mineko's life story! The fact of the matter is that he DID NOT. He. Did. Not. Yes, I agree he should not have mentioned her name, but come on! The two stories are ENTIRELY different, save for the fact that Sayuri and Mineko were both geisha and went through training; et cetera, and so on.
FantasticFlutist 9 months ago
dum ass! how could he do that to her! what a fuckk face
VeronicaGardentv 11 months ago
I'm Korean and I dont even like Japanese but I sure am on her side
SammySamungSan 1 year ago
wow that Geisha talking at 10 34 her english is really good love her accent shes so sweet and the geisha whos the subject of the book she seems really nice too
freacls 1 year ago
fucken Arthur ruined her life !
Cimmcia 1 year ago 4
@Cimmcia yeah he did and if she had killed herself[thank god she didnt ]it be her blood on his hands i feel so bad for her and seeing her cry i just wanted to give her a hug poor woman
freacls 1 year ago
3:46 13 AC
6:43 31 CA
3:46 13 AC
GelandnaleG 1 year ago
8:59pm Thursday (JST) - Time in Japan
GelandnaleG 1 year ago
geisha are prostitutes, their kimonos were easy access to their yellow butt cheeks!
KENDALLSTRONG 1 year ago
@KENDALLSTRONG ごみ人間
axaxaxaxaxist 1 year ago
@KENDALLSTRONG
i like to think their keesters are powder white as well, like humping two gigantic marshmallows
jacksonlefteye 1 year ago
fuck arthur golden! huge asshole!!!!
Granini20 1 year ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
the amount of naïveté in these comments is hilarious...you guys honestly believe they don't make a KILLING off prostitution? put yourself in their cloppy platform shoes for a second: you take in one wrinkly dick attached to a multi-millionaire and you're set for life, how important is your virginity now?
and why feel sorry for her after she broke their cardinal rule and cheapened the whole profession? she gave it all up for an EVIL AMERICAN and got duped, why should any of you care?
jacksonlefteye 1 year ago
@jacksonlefteye Sorry but I find your comment rude and single minded, First of all we dont actually know if they sell thier bodies do we? Second, It doesnt matter if they do or dont, It is a costom that has been followed for years and years, Yes she shouldnt have spilled the beans and she paying for it now but you know what? He shouldnt have put her name in the book! Third, virginity isn't something that any woman should sell, It's a choice that should be taken seriously.So Not even for millons!
Sammygirl2238 1 year ago
@Sammygirl2238
you're right, there's no concrete evidence that they prostitute themselves, but isn't that part of the appeal? my point was that it's silly to assume that they ALL take that lifestyle seriously, common sense dictates otherwise
secondly, it DOES appear to matter if they do or don't, why don't you watch this video again?
why is a woman's virginity so sacred as to set herself up for such potential humiliations? don't you understand how frivolous it really is?
jacksonlefteye 1 year ago
@jacksonlefteye -.-'' Are you male or female? Whatever the case, A womans virginity is something that once lost can never be taken back. Some people can't understand this and that pains me,It IS something sacred, Its something a woman should wait until shes married and has chosen the right man to give. Sex is the act of mating of bringing a new life into this world, Not something for our pleasure,Yes it does 'Feel good' but no amount of money can justify losing something irreplaceable until--
Sammygirl2238 1 year ago
@jacksonlefteye --Marrage to the right person, or until she KNOWS its the right time..not just"I love him" Or " Ineed the money and I'll be set for life"
I hate what this damned world has become! Fuck money,Fuck being popular! Fuck whatever made people think that their worthless..That they cant vaule them self, Women and children are what carry on mankind and men who respect women and children are worth their weight gold. saddly their a rarity, huh? well I'm done speaking. good day.
Sammygirl2238 1 year ago
@Sammygirl2238
YES!!! SET THE WORLD AFLAME!!! just do me a favor, next time you're pondering your worth and thinking you're all extra special, realize that you're one of over 6 billion people alive on the planet at that moment, that you're essentially a worthless mess (which any human being is), a beast whose brain evolved WAY too fast that keeps telling itself that its own desires and feelings are bad and against the status quo, and you basically just do what you're told to simply get by
jacksonlefteye 1 year ago
@jacksonlefteye I'm not anybetter then anyone else, nor do I treat them anyworse then I would teat meself, I just have my morals and stick to them. And humans arnt 'a wothless mess' Every single human being has worth and IS Extra Special, Even you are, you have your own memories and thoughts and emotions and your own words to speak. Granted I'm not perfect, nobody is.
Sammygirl2238 1 year ago
im so glad that i saw this
it was until now that i thought thats really wat happened throughout a geisha's life
KariBabe27 1 year ago
Poor woman, I never knew this! So he used her and then threw her away. Motherfucker!!! He should be ashamed. Now she has worse faith than death. Nobody talks to her. Jesus, poor woman!
Calucifer13 1 year ago 3
This really does suck. While I love the book, it's sad to see how she was used like that :(
codeaires 1 year ago 3
The point is not that it isn't about her or any other real Geisha, it's that he ruined the culture, brought back all the lies, and Mineko was blamed for it. That is NOT right.
MinekoTV 1 year ago 58
Wow, she was going to kill herself. I didn't know that they still did that in Japan, as a dishonor ritual of some sort, or I guess when they have shamed themselves. That's jacked up how things turned out for her :(
katGarkia15 1 year ago 2
Not sure if anyone's made this observation yet but Mineko Iwasaki chose to be interviewed by Arthur Golden which was surely breaking the Geisha code regardless of whether she was named or not?
I was hitherto unaware of this disagreement and it's sad there has been all this. I first read Memoirs and then Mineko Iwasaki's book, both are excellent although there was more of an authenticity to Mineko's obviously and loved all the photos. :)
narnia27 1 year ago
Not sure if anyone's made this observation yet but Mineko Iwasaki chose to be interviewed by Arthur Golden which was surely breaking the Geisha code regardless of whether she was named or not?
I was hitherto unaware of this disagreement and it's sad there has been all this. I first read Memoirs and then Mineko Iwasaki's book, both are excellent although there was more of an authenticity to Mineko's obviously and loved all the photos. :)
narnia27 1 year ago
That's what happened when a greedy american tried to meddle with somebody's else life. They broked promises, they lied, and defamed others just to make more money.
miorlego 1 year ago 4
Interesting.
I'm so in awe of geisha and Miss Iwasaki. I red hers and Golden's book.
Maybe 1 day I will get entertained by geiko.
hypergenius 1 year ago
Wow, what a shitty segment with seriously irritating "journalists".
lowenklee 1 year ago
Golden should be able to understand common sense. A geisha speaking to you about what they do or do not do. I wouldn't mention the name of the source. But he was out for himself and the holy dollar instead of creating a story without harming others.
wizbangFLL 1 year ago 3
its nt his story to tell he could have use another name
rinabros 1 year ago
the foulest comments were "It's not based on Mineko's life" "I never made such a promise".
First, I think that if he asked her for an intrview, it was implied he was gonna used the info he got. so that's just bullocks.
Second, I think that after the interviews, it was implied that this was to be kept a secret.
who does he wanna fool? he's an idiot, and though I loved the movie, I still think he shouldn't've wrote the novel at all.
akissy 1 year ago
guy cant keep a promis and he is a liar.
she trusted him with secret and he told.
it is his fault.
Nijiyume 1 year ago
Arthur Golden is an asshole .
Enough said.
JoeCentraI 1 year ago 4
I feel so bad for her!!! She really feel bad. she's beautiful as well. My love goes out to her x
LaurenRoseUK 1 year ago
Seems to me Arthur Golden took advantage of the kindness of Mineko Iwasaki to sell his books a lot through the world.
This is not fair.
pejorativeglut 1 year ago
I'm sorry -- but she cries about the honor of a promise, meanwhile having been THE person to break the code of the Geisha. She says her lawsuit wasn't about money but rather to get the book OFF shelves -- but she sued for a cut of what was sold. If you read this woman's book, you can see how false she is. *She* is the one who betrayed the culture of the Geisha.
MelsieH67 1 year ago
He shouldn't have cheated her like that. Should have confirmed her permission before publishing her name. Having face, honour and respect are very important in one's culture. To tarnish Mimeko's name (and all other geishas) like that - extremely wrong - and to clear it, means to pay it with one's own life. I'm glad Mimeko used a less ritual (seppuku) route to settle this.
The life of a Geisha - beautiful entertainers, not prosititutes. They should keep this old tradition alive.
pinkyssj4 1 year ago 5
*She* tarnished the tradition of the Geisha. She did it...not Golden. Golden is a westerner. We are fascinated with cultures in general and certainly with this one. He asked her point-blank questions and she point-blank answered them...she is the one who spilled, not he. He would not otherwise have known a lot of this stuff. She is an opportunist.
MelsieH67 1 year ago
what the hell...the book clearly states they aren't prostitutes!
"in the book they most certainly (are)"
mebee415 1 year ago 2
the book is no where close to describing the story of a prostitute...
lovergirl168 1 year ago
I hate how sexual the commentary made the geisha seem. Is it that hard for people to believe that a woman can make a man feel good without dancing around naked or sleeping with him?
And I refuse to read that book or watch the movie based off of it. It is very sad and cruel what he did to an art form that is in such a fragile state right now.
sonnet87 1 year ago
prostitution was forbidden for geisha in the ancient women code before WWII!!!!!!!
TheKumagaigumi 1 year ago
The thing that makes me mad about Golden was that he cited Mineko as a source when she told him not to. That's just lame, right there. His book and the movie of Memoirs of a Geisha are definitely entertaining but...it is soo inaccurate...
orgoik 1 year ago 12
@orgoik Wow. I HEARTILY disagree with your asinine comment (about the inaccuracy of MOAG; nothing else.) I agree he should have left her name out of it, but I have to draw the line there. The book is VERY accurate. The hairstyles, the kimono, entertaining, dance, shamisen....all are VERY accurate in Golden's book. He relied heavily on his own research, LIZA DALBY, and more, in addition to Mineko. THE ONLY thing NOT accurate is the part about mizuage and selling your virginity.
FantasticFlutist 9 months ago
@orgoik Furthermore, if you have ever watched the movie and looked back at the EXTRAS; most notably, "Geisha Bootcamp", they called in Liza Dalby to help the actresses learn to play the shamisen and walk right so their kimonos "flow", and everything. She also helped with makeup, too! Also, they additionally called in a traditional Japanese dance instructor to help with dance and comportment. So the movie is also accurate, JUST like the book, except, again, for the virginity part.
FantasticFlutist 9 months ago
@orgoik Furthermore, I read Mineko's book as well, and very much enjoyed it, may I add, and the only thing I got out of it that was FALSE from Memoirs was the actual meaning of "mizuage"; the rest was very much confirmed. So please, before spouting off that Memoirs is inaccurate, do some research.
FantasticFlutist 9 months ago
she is pretty
pinkprincess3110 1 year ago
the writer is just a crook!!! all he wanted is money and he didn't even reallize that he have ruin the culture of japanese.
TJUDO6 1 year ago 2
@TJUDO6 He didn't "ruin the culture of the Japanese" any more than the severe and ongoing inconsistencies of the movie Braveheart ruined the traditions of the Scots. It is a novel. It is fiction. It states so on the cover itself. Did you read "Raptor Red" and believed those were the things an actual dinosaur actually thought? That she had a name for herself and all that? Historical *fiction* IS FICTION. Historical accuracy is a textbook or reference book. How could anyone not know that?
MelsieH67 1 year ago
@MelsieH67 I know the main story came from his imagination but he shouldn't have quoted her name. It made this fictional book seem like it was based on facts.
pinkyssj4 1 year ago
The cat was already out of the bag. The lives of Geisha were shown brutally clear in the 1936 film "Sisters of Gion". It's considered the greatest Japanese film of the pre-war era. If anything, Golden's book, and the film made from it, were basically over romanticized soap operas. But, that's what makes some of the best fiction.
wandawong 1 year ago
he messed it up
funkeys101 1 year ago 2
I think it takes a lot of balls to go through what geisha's go through
&I feel so bad for what Mineko had to go through.
But I do have to say that the movie was great
Though
I havent read the book.
RayneFever 1 year ago 7
come on.... the commentary is crap....
sgarpia 1 year ago
how can that man be so cruel?!
WillyyyV 1 year ago 5
Talk about a screw up! Instead of bringing understanding about an often misunderstood professional, Memoirs of a Geisha, just caused more misunderstanding and hard feelings all around.
RoninDave 1 year ago 6
Hard feelings all around?
Davey, I never knew you could even conprehend something like that!
BaldBerlitzBoy 1 year ago
@RoninDave IT'S FICTION, people. There ISN'T a responsibility to "bring understanding" about anything. It was not a reference book. It was not a textbook. Do you believe Ringo Starr's movie Caveman brought severe misunderstandings to the world of the Cro-Magnon? People, please. It is fiction. It boldly says so right on the cover. "With the help of" or "input of" does not mean it's a work of NON-fiction. Yes, he wanted to sell books. He's an author! Duh.
MelsieH67 1 year ago
@MelsieH67 sorry but your condescending tone about MOG being merely fiction is not going to wash. It's a fiction only in the sense that the characters names are different but real enough to cause real people problems.
You seem to have personal ax to grind with the number of responses you have put her. And please tell me you did not compare this with a book about dinosaurs as a basis for your argument on fiction - that's just incredibly lame.
RoninDave 1 year ago
@RoninDave I want to get indignant over these comments but it's hard to when I'm too busy feeling sorry for people that manipulators like this woman have made a ton of money off of. By the way, "ax to grind" isn't the correct saying (look it up) but I'm pretty sure I know what you meant. No, I have no agenda...except being particularly icked-out by manipulators and users.
MelsieH67 1 year ago
@MelsieH67 Mineko isn't a manipulator. Do you think she would risk her fame and good name and her friends and family just ot get moremoney? She is a former geisha for goodness' sake,do you know how much money they have? she cried because of his betrayal, she lost friends, the geisha hate her now, and all because one stupid man without any common sense broke a promise.
akissy 1 year ago 3
I feel horrible that such a feud went on between the two. I decided to look up geisha/geiko videos since I'm again rereading Mineko Iwasaki's book 'Geisha, A Life.' I do admit though that Golden's book really did boarder a heck of a lot on hers, although after letting the cat out of the bag, I'm happy she came back with her own book.
I would like to find a memoir or something from a regular class geisha though. That would be more insightful.
Fluffymiyster 2 years ago 4
@Fluffymiyster the only thing didnt like about her book was that she had an affair with her husband before she married him (he was still married at the time). I know geisha are not prostitutes but she really shouldnt have done that. but it interesting to she how hard they have to work. and the differnt stage of their career.
eburel506 1 year ago
I don't remember her having an affair on her husband. The man 'Toshio' was married though, and yes, I agree that she shouldn't have been with him while he was, weather he claimed he was going to divorce his wife or not. She should've waited until everything was finalized. She helped to fudge up the misconceptions of geisha there...
Fluffymiyster 1 year ago
@Fluffymiyster no i knowshe never had an affair on her husband Toshiro is who I was talking about.
eburel506 1 year ago
@Fluffymiyster I read both too, and that is CRAP right there! Golden's book in NO way "bordered a heck of a lot on her's!" Both are ENTIRELY different.
And how was her book NOT insightful? At any rate, try "Autobiography of a Geisha", by Sayo Masuda. She came from a lower-class geisha society, but nevertheless, that might prove to be just what you are looking for in terms of regular class. I have read it; admittedly, I prefer Golden's and Mineko's MUCH more, but it was still interesting.
FantasticFlutist 9 months ago
@FantasticFlutist Mineko's life was indeed a lot different than the characters Sayuri but you can see some semblances. Example, the character Hatsumomo could very easily be Mineko's older sister Yaeko. Auntie seems to play the part of Auntie Oima (I believe that was her name from Mineko's book). The Chairman could be the older actor that Mineko met as well. Character-wise, they have similarities but if you're just speaking of plot, then no.
I'll check out the book you mentioned too ^_^
Fluffymiyster 8 months ago
@Fluffymiyster Ahhh, yeah, I can see the Auntie Oima part, definitely. :) But actually, to me it did not seem that Yaeko did that much to Mineko, at least to me, lol.
FantasticFlutist 6 months ago
@FantasticFlutist The girl's first ozashiki she entered, Yaeko started to talk down about her right in front of the customers. I do applaud Mineko for succeeding without a big sister considering she had to create customers nearly from scratch without using a big sister to help bridge relations. She had a strong support structure at home but without anyone actually on the job to assist, this is where I say Yaeko really hurt her (granted, I'm shy and without a big sister, I *would* fail, lol!)
Fluffymiyster 6 months ago
Comment removed
FantasticFlutist 6 months ago
@Fluffymiyster Ahhh. Well, I did read the book awhile ago, lol. :) But yes, I agree. I am the same way, and I would probably fail too. I really want to go to Japan someday, lol. Kyoto is at the top of my list. :)
And BTW, sorry, Re-reading my first comment to you, it seems really rude. D: I didn't mean it to seem that way, so sorry!! :(
FantasticFlutist 6 months ago
@FantasticFlutist It's cool, no harm done, lol!
Fluffymiyster 6 months ago
Truth does not require tears.
nazbites 2 years ago
wat a jerk! seeing her cry makes me want to slap him for being such a liar and for using her story to make a best seller ):(
maikor3 2 years ago 8
so she does exist! whats her real name? cuz when you search nitta sayuri theres nothing about her nd its all bout the movie.
chiachhu 2 years ago
Oh Come one, even in the book itself, the author said that Sayuri and all the other characters are fictional.
The Author even got into trouble with Mrs. Iwasaki later, she sued him for telling things in his book, she never told him that way
imeldaDuke 2 years ago 3
@chiachhu
no sayuri doesnt exist.
it's a fictional character from a fictional novel.
antsinmybed 2 years ago