what's espec sad is joy division will ALWAYS have more influence than the smiths, and I f'n love the smiths. masterpieces like disorder, which had a heavy influence on meat is murder and the smiths self-titled lp (apparent in moodiness and personalness in the lyrics of the songs) or closer, which is a bit closer to meat is murder in songwriting, drum lines, bass lines, guitar, don't come along very often. It's like hearing the beatles throw stones at the stones, for f's sake.
What he's saying is pretty much true though, the death of a band member or a premature break up sells units and adds mystique to a band which snowballs more as the years go by.
Another example of this is the tens of thousands of people that recently applied for tickets for The Stone Roses reunion concerts, no way were they that popular first time round.
The hero worship has only come in the last 15 odd years, you can guarantee that many of the people werent into them in 89/90.
Johnnys face at 1 21 is priceless, he's thinking ooh bigmouth strikes again, another can of worms lol, but nothing wrong in that, it's what Mozza fed off.
@MrChocolatenob Thats because you could only see after his suicide that the words he was singing were very true and they weren't just words, it was how he felt, even his bandmates said that they thought he was writing from someone elses perspective, until he killed himself
Everyone goes on and on about how Morrison was an amazing singer and writer, and he was, but Jim was not The Doors, he was just Jim. The Doors were Robby Krieger, John Densmore, Ray Manzerek, and the Lizard King himself. All four of them, each being one of the best in their respective talents, using the combination of their talent and creativity to create a universe of beautiful, spectacular, and unforgetable songs. The same deal with The Smiths. But Jim still gets all the credit. That's unfair.
its true hes morriseys got a valid opinion, but that doesnt mean JD lacked musical prowess, they were unique adn meaningfull other than most punk rock
The controversy (publicity)preceding ,and permeating a beautifully heretical little masterpiece, "The End " by The Doors,adds up to more awe & reverance Morrisey /The Smiths would ever achieve in their band's history -much less grudgingly ackowledge. .
BUT I'm not agree with him about The Doors ! Their first album was a big hit thanks to the single 'Light my Fire' ! that's one of the greatest band ever !!!! You can't deny it
And Joy DIvision is amazing ! their sound is pure gold
Morrissey sounds like a 14 year old who's jealous because another kid in school's dad died and now the girl they're fighting over doesn't care about him anymore. Another classic example of Morrissey being redolent of a child. Ian Curtis all the way.
@MUFCrich59 That's not the point. Moz is referring to the Jim Morrisson-craze that exploded, and they somehow got some status they never had before (and yes, The Doors are fantastic).
joy division never toured the us and never had the chance to become massive while ian c was alive so you can't judge them on that but the smiths are still amazing
And to sum it all up: "Artists are never appreciated in their own time". I hated the Smith's as a kid in the 80's and now thanks to Marr's music I can appreciate the Smith's. Never really warmed up to Morrissey though... he always seemed the very definition of wanker..
Morrissey, always making those controversial statements. I'm a big fan, but he doesn't really seem to like much. Well, except for the New York Dolls. Whom I don't like, personally.
Morrissey, I do love you but, I dont think you can say the Doors weren't big when they were around.. Even at the end Marr's a bit like '..woah, shit. didnt think you'd go there'
Joy division are one of my fave bands ever but i have to agree here, another example is the passing of Gary Speed, everyone comes out and loves him and say how great he was, now that he's passed away.
Joy Division had a certain following before Ian died but it was all small gigs. Ian's death lent the sense of despair in the songs a certain credibility and heightened the drama. I used to love Joy Division but once you know their contemporaries like Gang of Four, Gary Numan/Tubeway Army, Ultravox!, Siouxsie & the Banshees, The Fall, Public Image, Magazine, as well as influences like The Stooges, Nico, Amon Düül II, Roxy Music, Neu!, Kraftwerk, Throbbing Gristle, they're not so special.
Damn...Morrissey is a smart clear thinking individual...I don't know why I'm surprised about that. Never really been a Smiths fan. His solo stuff kinda 'draws you in' though there's a 'smart style' to him almost(!) like Bryan Ferry? I HATE it when at 46 I've now got to back up an re-evaluate...
if you listen to Joy Division and their lyrics then you wouldnt agree with this, they were amazing, and completely changed music, they were great then and are still great now. Morrisey is just an arrogant prick
@alistahr Chill out guy, mors isn't saying they were'nt good. He's simply saying noone really cared about them untill Ian died, and lets be honest here. The smiths were a much much better band, I do still love joy division though.
@dairylandbogurt Id have to disagree, when i found about Joy Division in high school i was completely unaware of the fact that Ian was dead, i just heard their music and immediately fell in love with them, it wasnt until later when i started looking up info on them as a fanboy that discovered he had died, imo Joy Division's music is far more powerful than the smiths ever were
@alistahr Well you are entitled to your own opinion, but no music speaks to me like the smiths does. If you have'nt looked into them much check out the songs "there is a light that never goes out", "I know its over" and "paint a vulgar picture", and your opinion may change about them.
@dairylandbogurt i have listened to The Smiths, i just find JD to speak more to me than anything else, after all they are my favorite band, to me, nothing compares to Unknown Pleasures
the publicity that resulted from the deaths of ian curtis, jim morrisson, and even kurt cobain, helped to bring them media attention and thus exposing their material to larger audiences. but i dont think that people "fell in love" with these bands' music solely because of the frontmans tragic deaths. how could morrissey expect joy division to have a massive following when the only way for people to hear them was pretty much at their gigs?
@MrChocolatenob actually , they already had a cult following when they were first around, morrisy is just a cunt who is only popular or famouse because of that shit the cure, which were'nt that good to begin with.
Unknown pleasures, reached number 2 in the first ever indie chart. In January 1980. BEFORE Ian Curtis died. Of course there is a massive glamorisation around Ian's death, but number 2 before his death. Explain lack of popularity there Morrissey?
@UKWoodSea in my eyes that i still a lack of popularity. this may sound iased with me being more of a smiths fan than a joy division fan, but in the 1980s it was all about U2, the smiths and the cure and the clash. Joy division were also a good band and they had a couple of popular songs, but the point hes getting at is they werent constantly popular. they had their moments but most of their current fanbase are the ones that started loving the group only when ian curtis died
@MrChocolatenob I will never understand the love for Joy Division. But feel free to flame me. :-) And Morrisey dumping on The Doors because they didn't have hit singles? lol What an idiot.
@Nigelxman As much as I dislike Morrissey, he told that even The Doors weren't as successful as now because their lead singer died, that's why he told that at the time they hadn't any hit singles.
It's like the thing about the return of The Smiths, Pink Floy, Led Zeppelin. If they were around for by now without disbanding, many fans would be tired of them. That's why we must praise for what we have and imagine what would be if some bands return. They gave what they had.
JD is idolized for Curtis's death the same way the Smiths is for Moz's reputation/image... it adds a bit of external flair, but in no way is it integral to the enjoyment of the music. People prob didn't care that much about JD (a lie) because they had a lot less mainstream appeal than their contemporaries... takes a while for the sound to hit you, but is IMO for powerful than the Smiths who I love, dead or alive.
I understand what he's saying, and I actually feel pretty much the same about it (the glorifying people after their death)... but the "I don't even think they had hit singles" have nothing to do with anything and Marr's face proves it. Also, A LOT of people cared about the The Doors! and The Beatles, and maybe not so many about Joy Division but they were a great band nonetheless.
Sorry Moz, I'm a fan but your wrong about the Doors.
jorgedean1 2 days ago
Marr is a total pretentious turd, along with Morrissey....JOY DIVISION was AWESOME!!!!
treid100182 2 days ago
@treid100182
that said...i love the Smiths.
treid100182 2 days ago
Comment removed
burlearth 1 day ago
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@treid100182 They never said Joy Division were bad only that they became more famous after Curtis' death.
burlearth 1 day ago
what's espec sad is joy division will ALWAYS have more influence than the smiths, and I f'n love the smiths. masterpieces like disorder, which had a heavy influence on meat is murder and the smiths self-titled lp (apparent in moodiness and personalness in the lyrics of the songs) or closer, which is a bit closer to meat is murder in songwriting, drum lines, bass lines, guitar, don't come along very often. It's like hearing the beatles throw stones at the stones, for f's sake.
mope vs no hope
tracehazarrrrd 3 days ago
"didn't even have hit singles" uh huh huh, man morrissey, I don't know what you're talkin' bout here.. haha
tracehazarrrrd 3 days ago
that doors crap of morrissey is bullshit
they were one of the best bands of their days, and sure they had hit singles and a large fanbase
and not those stupid fluffy singles but dark and fascinating songs,
but i guess the joy div part was more true in a way
simionTheOne 1 week ago
What he's saying is pretty much true though, the death of a band member or a premature break up sells units and adds mystique to a band which snowballs more as the years go by.
Another example of this is the tens of thousands of people that recently applied for tickets for The Stone Roses reunion concerts, no way were they that popular first time round.
The hero worship has only come in the last 15 odd years, you can guarantee that many of the people werent into them in 89/90.
lambrettali175 1 week ago
Johnnys face at 1 21 is priceless, he's thinking ooh bigmouth strikes again, another can of worms lol, but nothing wrong in that, it's what Mozza fed off.
lambrettali175 2 weeks ago
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@MrChocolatenob Thats because you could only see after his suicide that the words he was singing were very true and they weren't just words, it was how he felt, even his bandmates said that they thought he was writing from someone elses perspective, until he killed himself
ABoyInTheBush 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
ABoyInTheBush 2 weeks ago
Everyone goes on and on about how Morrison was an amazing singer and writer, and he was, but Jim was not The Doors, he was just Jim. The Doors were Robby Krieger, John Densmore, Ray Manzerek, and the Lizard King himself. All four of them, each being one of the best in their respective talents, using the combination of their talent and creativity to create a universe of beautiful, spectacular, and unforgetable songs. The same deal with The Smiths. But Jim still gets all the credit. That's unfair.
howsoonisnow93 1 month ago
its true hes morriseys got a valid opinion, but that doesnt mean JD lacked musical prowess, they were unique adn meaningfull other than most punk rock
guitar19904 1 month ago
The controversy (publicity)preceding ,and permeating a beautifully heretical little masterpiece, "The End " by The Doors,adds up to more awe & reverance Morrisey /The Smiths would ever achieve in their band's history -much less grudgingly ackowledge. .
DaDa2Phlux 1 month ago
the doors were really big when they were around
jcjordie21 1 month ago
I love Moz
BUT I'm not agree with him about The Doors ! Their first album was a big hit thanks to the single 'Light my Fire' ! that's one of the greatest band ever !!!! You can't deny it
And Joy DIvision is amazing ! their sound is pure gold
Stairwaytoheaven06 1 month ago 2
Marr didn't like the knock about the Doors that's for sure.
AshmanGT 1 month ago 8
@AshmanGT
it most certainly wasn't a "knock" it was an observation, get it right
AidanMusik 3 days ago
Morrissey sounds like a 14 year old who's jealous because another kid in school's dad died and now the girl they're fighting over doesn't care about him anymore. Another classic example of Morrissey being redolent of a child. Ian Curtis all the way.
dmchio 1 month ago
@dmchio bueatiful summation, i was thinking something alone the same lies
MatthewS8590 1 month ago
@dmchio MORRISSEY WOULD MOST LIKELY BE FIGHTING OVER OTHER BOYS
polistyrenejassband 1 month ago
the doors were better than the smiths
MUFCrich59 1 month ago
@MUFCrich59 That's not the point. Moz is referring to the Jim Morrisson-craze that exploded, and they somehow got some status they never had before (and yes, The Doors are fantastic).
Reint25 1 month ago
joy division never toured the us and never had the chance to become massive while ian c was alive so you can't judge them on that but the smiths are still amazing
connorbrowne 1 month ago 3
And to sum it all up: "Artists are never appreciated in their own time". I hated the Smith's as a kid in the 80's and now thanks to Marr's music I can appreciate the Smith's. Never really warmed up to Morrissey though... he always seemed the very definition of wanker..
feralcamero 1 month ago
Morrissey, always making those controversial statements. I'm a big fan, but he doesn't really seem to like much. Well, except for the New York Dolls. Whom I don't like, personally.
evilashxero 2 months ago
i guarantee morrissey loved joy division when he was a teenager. sometimes people get famous and think theyre above everything.
ChuckyChainz 2 months ago
@ChuckyChainz That's unlikely, Morrissey doesn't love much at all.
krisq14 2 months ago
"Obviously people get very affectionate about groups when they are no longer with us." OH THE IRONY.
rockguru123 2 months ago 31
@rockguru123
Reminds me of the song A Most Peculiar Man by Simon and Garfunkel... If you haven't heard it you should!
Olimogtaba 1 month ago
Morrissey, I do love you but, I dont think you can say the Doors weren't big when they were around.. Even at the end Marr's a bit like '..woah, shit. didnt think you'd go there'
TH3R3CS 2 months ago
@TH3R3CS
that's called editing
AidanMusik 3 days ago
Joy division are one of my fave bands ever but i have to agree here, another example is the passing of Gary Speed, everyone comes out and loves him and say how great he was, now that he's passed away.
gavofleon 2 months ago 3
Add Can, Hawkwind and The Doors to that.
simonsaintgilles 2 months ago
Joy Division had a certain following before Ian died but it was all small gigs. Ian's death lent the sense of despair in the songs a certain credibility and heightened the drama. I used to love Joy Division but once you know their contemporaries like Gang of Four, Gary Numan/Tubeway Army, Ultravox!, Siouxsie & the Banshees, The Fall, Public Image, Magazine, as well as influences like The Stooges, Nico, Amon Düül II, Roxy Music, Neu!, Kraftwerk, Throbbing Gristle, they're not so special.
simonsaintgilles 2 months ago
JD ftw
nervsykins 2 months ago
Damn...Morrissey is a smart clear thinking individual...I don't know why I'm surprised about that. Never really been a Smiths fan. His solo stuff kinda 'draws you in' though there's a 'smart style' to him almost(!) like Bryan Ferry? I HATE it when at 46 I've now got to back up an re-evaluate...
Nazzz65 2 months ago
if you listen to Joy Division and their lyrics then you wouldnt agree with this, they were amazing, and completely changed music, they were great then and are still great now. Morrisey is just an arrogant prick
alistahr 2 months ago 2
@alistahr Chill out guy, mors isn't saying they were'nt good. He's simply saying noone really cared about them untill Ian died, and lets be honest here. The smiths were a much much better band, I do still love joy division though.
dairylandbogurt 2 months ago
@dairylandbogurt Id have to disagree, when i found about Joy Division in high school i was completely unaware of the fact that Ian was dead, i just heard their music and immediately fell in love with them, it wasnt until later when i started looking up info on them as a fanboy that discovered he had died, imo Joy Division's music is far more powerful than the smiths ever were
alistahr 2 months ago
@alistahr Well you are entitled to your own opinion, but no music speaks to me like the smiths does. If you have'nt looked into them much check out the songs "there is a light that never goes out", "I know its over" and "paint a vulgar picture", and your opinion may change about them.
dairylandbogurt 2 months ago
@dairylandbogurt i have listened to The Smiths, i just find JD to speak more to me than anything else, after all they are my favorite band, to me, nothing compares to Unknown Pleasures
alistahr 2 months ago
the publicity that resulted from the deaths of ian curtis, jim morrisson, and even kurt cobain, helped to bring them media attention and thus exposing their material to larger audiences. but i dont think that people "fell in love" with these bands' music solely because of the frontmans tragic deaths. how could morrissey expect joy division to have a massive following when the only way for people to hear them was pretty much at their gigs?
dacraba20 2 months ago
ridiculous. i love morrissey but...no
meinerHeld 2 months ago
@MrChocolatenob actually , they already had a cult following when they were first around, morrisy is just a cunt who is only popular or famouse because of that shit the cure, which were'nt that good to begin with.
LetsTakeArideOut 3 months ago
Unknown pleasures, reached number 2 in the first ever indie chart. In January 1980. BEFORE Ian Curtis died. Of course there is a massive glamorisation around Ian's death, but number 2 before his death. Explain lack of popularity there Morrissey?
UKWoodSea 3 months ago
@UKWoodSea in my eyes that i still a lack of popularity. this may sound iased with me being more of a smiths fan than a joy division fan, but in the 1980s it was all about U2, the smiths and the cure and the clash. Joy division were also a good band and they had a couple of popular songs, but the point hes getting at is they werent constantly popular. they had their moments but most of their current fanbase are the ones that started loving the group only when ian curtis died
jimmyguitarman 3 months ago
When Morrissey made his remark on the doors, it made me laugh because, well, I tihnk the Doors are overrated :)
oogie11 3 months ago
@oogie11 I don't, but 'I don't even think they had hit singles' is classic Morrissey!
wungabunga 3 months ago
@MrChocolatenob I will never understand the love for Joy Division. But feel free to flame me. :-) And Morrisey dumping on The Doors because they didn't have hit singles? lol What an idiot.
Nigelxman 4 months ago
@Nigelxman As much as I dislike Morrissey, he told that even The Doors weren't as successful as now because their lead singer died, that's why he told that at the time they hadn't any hit singles.
It's like the thing about the return of The Smiths, Pink Floy, Led Zeppelin. If they were around for by now without disbanding, many fans would be tired of them. That's why we must praise for what we have and imagine what would be if some bands return. They gave what they had.
didit31g 4 months ago
@didit31g pink floy?
floy ?
jonastrkr 4 months ago
@jonastrkr Only the band Pink Floyd could have been
dannymorose1 3 months ago
@jonastrkr Wow! In a big comment, you noticed that a simple "d" was missing! Your mother must be so proud of you.
didit31g 3 months ago
@didit31g no
jonastrkr 3 months ago
Morrissey, get the fuck out.
MrDeviousPixie 4 months ago
The problem with Morrissey is, that unlike Ian, he never had the guts to kill himself.
UKWoodSea 4 months ago
morrisey .. what a cock..." no one cared about the doors when they existed"...please...
mojaroar 4 months ago
JD is idolized for Curtis's death the same way the Smiths is for Moz's reputation/image... it adds a bit of external flair, but in no way is it integral to the enjoyment of the music. People prob didn't care that much about JD (a lie) because they had a lot less mainstream appeal than their contemporaries... takes a while for the sound to hit you, but is IMO for powerful than the Smiths who I love, dead or alive.
MrTrinklied 7 months ago
I understand what he's saying, and I actually feel pretty much the same about it (the glorifying people after their death)... but the "I don't even think they had hit singles" have nothing to do with anything and Marr's face proves it. Also, A LOT of people cared about the The Doors! and The Beatles, and maybe not so many about Joy Division but they were a great band nonetheless.
ballendaii 9 months ago