@navychaplain7 "Considered" by whom? By Deists? I've yet to mee a deist who isn't a secularist. Most people who know of deism and what it's general principle is would also agree.
Deism is a type of Philosophy. Deists believe in GOD and we believe that through science, Logic, and reasoning we can understand how GOD created the universe. We don't believe in any form of biblical text or divine revelation.
There seems to be a general concensus that the 1st wave of Europeans who came to America did so mostly to flee the repression of religion. So it seems ironic that America now has one of the highest ratios of Christians to Atheists.
Add to that that in every case Atheist videos get very high ratings & Theist videos score near the bottom AND that Christian videos usually have comments and/or ratings disabled.
Why are they hiding? Could it be that they KNOW their propaganda is bullshit?
@warren52nz It's probably because atheists spend more time on the webz especially on youtube (hence the name youtube atheists or statheists). Also the 1st wave of of Europeans that came to America to flee the repression of religion were also christians, some of them just being deistic merchants.
@mana2432 True but virtually everyone was religious back in those days because God was the only way to "explain" how we got here and why everything fits together so perfectly.
The human mind has a "need to know" function built into it and if we don't know, we make it up.
Now that we actually DO know a lot about what's going on around here we don't need to explain it with a magical sky daddy with an appalling attendance record.
The God of the Gaps. Not many places for him these days.
@mana2432 As for Atheists spending more time on YT, that's not surprising. Atheists have inquiring minds, religious people don't. They already have their "answers" and the last thing they want is to look around with an open mind because doing so would illuminate conflicts with what they believe.
It's well established that the lower the IQ/Education, the more likely someone is to be religious. And violent.
@warren52nz Being an atheist does not automatically make you any more intelligent. I think you know this already. Look around youtube, where we have a bunch of them who don't believe in a deity, yet they substitute him for a state, especially the collectivist type, which is pretty ridiculous, and the worst ones are the evangelical type like calpurnpisso. That is what I'm trying to say. I'm sort of a deist/apatheist.
@mana2432 "Being an atheist does not automatically make you any more intelligent"
True such generalizations aren't always true. But being religious requires you to ignore certain evidence and defend irrational beliefs and that's less likely for an intelligent person thus the skewed tendency.
There may be a higher intelligence involved in setting this all up but there's no way to know ANYTHING about it unless it shows up and tells us. Not happening anytime soon I'd say.
This is why I am a Deist and left islam.Deism concept of God is similar to Islam! With exception that Deism does not agree with Islam on many issues but agrees only in the concept of Tawheed(Oneness of the Creator). Read Thomas Paine's - Age of Reason.
The republics of France and U.S. America were meant to be DEISTic nations. Read the final chapter of Thomas Paine's - " Age of Reason ". It was supposed to evolve under the protection of a republic form of government and under this protection the society would transform into a Deistic and tolerant society. This was the intent of the american founders! To allow the freedom of religion so eventually through this freedom of education that all ppl would lift their veils and see the light of DEISM!
@aminysunshine I think not but it shares key figures. I don't know much about the two except a few documentaries and Dan Brown novels. I would think that the Freemason's defiantly wouldn't have connections to deism but they are so secret it's anyone's guess. As for the Illuminati more likely because they take a fancy to science over religion which is the whole point of deism.
I can't believe you missed one of the most important quotes of all. George Washington, in the Treaty of Tripoli stated - "The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" - Sums it up.
Good vid, I consistantly come across Americans who believe that the US was founded ON Christianity, these are more often than not the same people who are clearly racist bigots with quite often a love for guns & believe that the earth is only 6000yrs old (LOL). Oh and most of them have NEVER actually read the constitution. It almost seems that religion, ignorance, racism & violence all go together like pees in a pod.
Both atheism and religion are false concepts. Deism is the only truth to life. If you were born with advanced DNA and superior RNA like all deists possess then you would see the truth. If you have not evolved to our level then evolution has failed you and you are nothing but waste. Deism.com
Wow, someone who actually knows what he's talking about, congratulations! But I think they wanted a Secular nation that ignores God completely. Mainly because most Deists think morals come from genetic and cultural evolution and not directly from their God.
@moh490234890238490 I respectfully disagree, there are many references to a god in the early official documents of the U.S, but then again, one can be both secular and deistic at the same time, "secular" is without religion, god is not inherent with organised religion.
yes there are references to a god in those documents but 1)it was just tradition to write god in a document at that period in time. 2)it was the deist god or the divine watchmaker that descartes "came up with" 3)it was meant to be a secular nation. one of thomas jefferson's writings states what he thought about the first amendment. to him, it was a separation of church and state.
now, the other side.........i was just reading an article on this 2 minutes ago, and it states that according to stats, that out of the 100 percent of americans that claimed to be christian, 50 percent of of them actually fit the "deist" belief system better than they do the christian belief system. so in a sense, i think about it as: the USA was meant to be secular at first, but the people today have deist beliefs, ie, reason, science, philosophy, a distant god, etc.
I am a deist because I believe in Natures God. To me natures God is Infinity where it all started. Something in infinity decided to evolve and thats what we are all doing evolving.
It's interesting though. The Deost founders did'nt create the U.S.A. to be a Deist nation either. They simply made it to be a democratic secular country under enlightenment principals.
@Iconoclastithon You mean "principles." And the video mistakenly makes the OPPOSITE mistake, repeatedly, and instead means to say: "Principal" Author(s).
I believe that is the point he is trying to make with this video. He's simply stating that not all the founding fathers of the U.S. were Christians that wanted to make a Christian nation.
@Iconoclastithon Yeah, if we had christians that created the U.S., we would all be forced to stamp "GOD LOVES YOU" on our forehead every morning. Thank goodness for deism based founding fathers!
@Iconoclastithon Sorry this reply is SO late, but I just became interest in Deism and checked out this video, where I saw your comment. This country was founded as a republic. In a democracy the majority (say 51%) basically rules the rest. The republic is supposed to be ruled by law (the constitution etc.) and protect the other 49%. Democracies do not last.
I practice Islam, But i thank you for this. Deist and TRUE Islam are A LOT in common. Thanks my brother i like it alot. Thats christanity for you. HA:-)
Well the last one Jesus said he came for the lost sheep of Israel. Those who don't know God not for those who already know. He wanted to help those who most needed it. How is that racist again?
@DeistPaladin you do realize that mathew 15:25 is about a demon possessed woman not a woman. it does say that jesus doesnt want to through bread to dogs, but he is implying a demon not a woman, i am atheist, but it saddens me when other atheists attack the bible in ways that arent attackable... its called quote mining, another example is luke 19:27-28... if you take it out of context it looks bad
@skwerl23 I just re-read the passage to be sure I hadn't missed something. It is as I remembered it. It's the woman's DAUGHTER who was possessed and Jesus made it clear why he wasn't helping the mother.
that means that the government must keep out of the churches and religions. it in no way implies that religion is not allowed in government, like this video implies. you are correct that there is a separation but not in the way this video implies.
I'd be curious to know what hypothetical scenerio you can envision in which a religion influences the government without the government, in turn, eventually establishing that religion as an official state church.
James Madison wrote as much that you can only keep that from happening by keeping religion out of the government.
maybe something like the united states, hypothetically speaking. In 1785, in Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, Madison wrote:
"It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage. Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe."
james madison approved of the 1776 virginia bill of rights and its 16th clause which says, in part: "It is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other."
James Madison may have been forced by political considerations to approve such a bill but when it came to his personal views, he made them clear. He also acted accordingly as president, vetoing legislation that would blur the line between government and religion.
But you never answered my question. Map out a scenerio where religion can influence the government without the government establishing or favoring one religion over others.
"Religion is the basis and Foundation of Government.... We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
no i did not get this quote from wallbuilders. this can be found in many places. it is said to be a quote to the general assembly of the state of virginia in 1778 though i admit it is disputed. it would not be out of character though considering that he has made many similar statements.
why do you assume madison was forced by political consideration to approve the bill? maybe i will just assume that he vetoed legislation as president that would blur the line beween church and state. i assume he is a christian based on the hand written notes in his personal bible. and i did answer your question. the united states would be a good example of a state which is heavily influenced by religion without any official state religions.
Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise
-James Madison, Letter to William Bradfor
During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.
-James Madison, Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, Section 7
you should read his letter to bradford written september 25, 1773. madison also said in the memorial and remonstrance that you cite above: "Before any man can be considerd as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governour of the Universe." i think i may have already shown you this quote though. have you read the entire document? essentially it shows what his understanding of sep. of church and state really is, and that is for the state to keep out of the church.
QUOTE: "Even assuming that this is not a made-up quote, the Governor is Jesus? Not Nature's God?"
considering that he makes so many references to Christ in his writings, i will assume that is who he is talking about. by the way, do you, from a true deist's point of view, feel that you must be a subject of the governor of the universe before being a member if civil society? i thought God is just a watchmaker according to deism.
"I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temportal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ;"
its existence is not contingent on your ability to find it. but never fear, you need only look at his letter to william bradford, sept. 25, 1773. maybe you dont have that one in your collection.
As I've mentioned, there are a number of bogus FF quotes out there being circulated, knowingly or unwittingly, by those who seek to promote the myth that America was founded as a Christian nation.
My sources are quotes carefully taken DIRECTLY from copies of the letters of James Madison and other founders. I'm going to need more than you "believe" it's in "some book written by a professor who claims Madison said..."
nope, papers of james madison volume 1 page 26. it was written by william t. hutchinson and william M.E. Rachal. The University of Chicago Press, 1962. you will have to look here because nobody except for christians want to talk about this, so you are only going to see it on christian sites, or sites that you would consider credible. but this source is credible.
My sources are simply compilations of the writings of various founding fathers, unedited and without commentary. Historians other than Christians seem to have a great interest in this topic.
i cannot find it online other than on christian or conservative websites. other than that, i can only give you my previous source. another question: what, if any, are you political convictions? i have you sized up as a civil libertarian with some liberal leanings. how close am i?
Moderate on economic issues and liberal on social issues. I guess that's somewhere between libertarian and liberal. I've never been a Christian but I am an ex-conservative. My view gradually migrated over the years.
I have to say that if you managed to transport the then Reagan-loving me through time to see the Bush administration, he (I) would be horrified. The religious right's takeover of the Republican party was something I didn't foresee and I was quite outspoken then against fascism as well. Consequently, I was neither a Rush nor a W.Bush conservative.
Over time, I migrated to libertarian and then shifted away from that when I learned the free market doesn't solve every problem.
i agree that reagan would be appalled. now about the free market, i hear this all the time, and i dont know what you mean specifically, so i am going to speculate based on past arguments that i have heard. i dont know how we can know if free-market can work since we have not really seen it implemented fully (or even mostly) in our lifetimes. clearly what we have now is some sort of capitalist-socialist hybrid. i believe it is set up that way by design to make people believe it is free market.
I'm speaking as both a businessman and one who has an MBA.
The free market is great for managing scarce resources and achieving the greatest level of wealth production. However, it will do nothing to protect the environment and will do as little as possible to care for the welfare of workers.
Unfettered markets with a federally backed guarantee is the worst of both worlds and is what has landed us in our current mess. Speculators will gamble away and turn to the government when the lose.
i agree with the last part of your comment as an "unfettered" market, or free market with any kind of federal guarantee is not really free, is it? but i believe that a free market is the best way to protect the environment, though it may not be perfect. i am talking about the idea that if one owns something, one takes care of it. also, i think a free market would eventually make quality of life an issue and weed out companies who damage our quality of life.
i also think a truly free market is the best way to protect emplyees rights. after all, employees who dont like there working conditions can demand better ones, or work for a company who will give them that. it is a relationship between employer and employee that i think has been all but forgotten, mostly because of government intervention. third parties and bureaucracies only complicate matters and exist only to serve the themselves (the third parties).
Let's not forget that this "letter" was written when Madison was all of what, 21-22 yrs. old? He hadn't yet met Jefferson, Franklin, and other great figures of the Enlightenment. He obviously changed his views as he got older.
"A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest, while we are building ideal monuments of renown and bliss here, we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven."
another letter to bradford, nov. 9, 1772. not exactly a reference to Christ, but i thought you would like it.
QUOTE: "The only people I block are spammers and trolls."
thats not true. i have proof. but anyway, i hope you have time to look at all the quotes i have posted so you can formulate a response. my basic point is that james madison was not a deist and at least leaned more to the christian side than not. after all, he kept notes in his personal version of the book you throw around (that would be the bible). how could a deist respect that book in the least?
As I've said before, Madison railed against Christianity writing things that would make ME blush. I have little doubt that your quotes will turn out to be mined, altered or outright fabricated. Christians are known to do this, the most famous example was the re-write of Washington's "Prayer for the Nation".
QUOTE: "I have little doubt that your quotes will turn out to be mined, altered or outright fabricated."
now it is up to you to show proof to back up this assertion. you have accused me of misquotation, a serious charge in a debate like this. i have backed up my quotes with references so that you can look them up. now you can either say that the quotes are fabricated, or you can just look them up and see their accuracy. until then, the burden of proof lies on you for making your assertion.
Christian apologists have fabricated or altered founding father quotes to promote the myth of America being a Christian nation. Consequently, I have good reason to view any quote offered by a Christian with extreme suspicion.
QUOTE: "I have good reason to view any quote offered by a Christian with extreme suspicion."
then it is up to you to look up my references rather than just assume i am lying or unwittlingly passing on lies. i referenced the quotes, so why are we talking about this? did you look up my references? if i lied, why dont you call me on it specifically? but we both know the we probably got our quotes from much the same places.
Because my book that contains the complete writings of James Madison is in a box. When I'm done unpacking, I'll get back to you. Right now, the latest salvo of phony FF quotes from a Christian is just not that important to me.
"you can't keep the state out of the church without keeping the church out of state."
why not? we have in this country for 230+ years. this nation has been heavily influenced by christianity since its beginning yet the state has never, until recently, interferred with the private practice of religion. by the way, did you read madison's letter to bradford written september 25, 1773? you might like that one.
in an 1803 letter to benjamin rush, thomas jefferson said: "To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed, but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others, ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing he never claimed any other." this can be found in the Memorial Edition of Jefferson's Writings, Vol. 10, pg. 379. deist? i think not.
Okay, this will be the last one, believe who you want lead the sheep(followers however you want) don't think you won't be held accountable for your actions.
I never said to claim myself christian( as someone that goes to a church and listens to a fat pedophile tell me what he thinks the Bible means)
Thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate Me
Then we have the verse " no man is without sin " ( therefore not worthy of worship) and Jesus was a man?
But as far as America, so what, it is about to fall and fall hard ( was this by design?)
Let me ask you this... Why did the founders of the United States ignore Romans 13:1-7 which promises damnation to those who don't follow Biblegod's divine right of rulers? You know the King of England was supposedly put there by God. Answer please!
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and United States Constitution
"I believe that there is one only living and true God, existing in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the same in substance equal in power and glory. That the scriptures of the old and new testaments are a revelation from God, and a complete rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him.
1st Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court and President of the American Bible Society
"In forming and settling my belief relative to the doctrines of Christianity, I adopted no articles from creeds but such only as, on careful examination, I found to be confirmed by the Bible."
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
--The Trumpet Voice of Freedom: Patrick Henry of Virginia, p. iii.
Patrick Henry did NOT participate in the Constitutional Convention. He was good at tearing down existing govt. institutions, but badly flawed at building new ones.
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution
"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution
"The Gospel of Jesus Christ prescribes the wisest rules for just conduct in every situation of life. Happy they who are enabled to obey them in all situations!"
--The Autobiography of Benjamin Rush, pp. 165-166.
"Christianity is the only true and perfect religion, and that in proportion as mankind adopts its principles and obeys its precepts, they will be wise and happy."
"I do declare to the whole world that we believe the Scriptures to contain a declaration of the mind and will of God in and to those ages in which they were written; being given forth by the Holy Ghost moving in the hearts of holy men of God; that they ought also to be read, believed, and fulfilled in our day; being used for reproof and instruction, that the man of God may be perfect.
They are a declaration and testimony of heavenly things themselves, and, as such, we carry a high respect for them. We accept them as the words of God Himself."
"The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth.
Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time. And may the associated distribution of the Bible proceed and prosper till the Lord shall have made 'bare His holy arm in the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God' (Isaiah 52:10)."
"When we view the blessings with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we possess of handing them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistibly drawn to the source from whence they flow. Let us then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgements for these blessings to the Divine Author of All Good."
--Monroe made this statement in his 2nd Annual Message to Congress, November 16, 1818.
You should know that some people may be called Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist or even "Christian"on the outside, but on the inside they're something else. It's been said that Mark Twain was a Presbyterian, but if you were to judge that by his comments, it is highly doubtful.
Beware phony founding father quotes, circulated by lairs for Jesus. I got my quotes directly from their letters. In my online book, they're all footnoted so you can look them up yourself.
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Father of the American Revolution
"And as it is our duty to extend our wishes to the happiness of the great family of man, I conceive that we cannot better express ourselves than by humbly supplicating the Supreme Ruler of the world that the rod of tyrants may be broken to pieces, and the oppressed made free again; that wars may cease in all the earth,
and that the confusions that are and have been among nations may be overruled by promoting and speedily bringing on that holy and happy period when the kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ may be everywhere established, and all people everywhere willingly bow to the sceptre of Him who is Prince of Peace."
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Unites States Constitution
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see;
Franklin was an elitist, faithful servant to the royal family. Member of the hell fire club,satanist, possible shill put in place by and for the royal family.
"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." (Benjamin Franklin, at the signing of the Declaration of Independence)
So yes, I distrust Franklin's true agenda, he spoke from both sides of his mouth on many occasions. ( possible reason there are loopholes"flaws" in our constitution )
This is an expression of Constitutional Deism.
cris750 2 weeks ago
A thousand thumbs up!
CobinRain 1 month ago
@LoneKook It was hacked and completely deleted. I haven't gotten the energy up to completely remake it, which I will have to do.
DeistPaladin 1 month ago
The United States was the first COMPLETELY secular nation in known history. Period. To suggest otherwise is Un-American and you WILL be dealt with.
fdasherv 4 months ago
@navychaplain7 Yes
Iconoclastithon 6 months ago
@navychaplain7 "Considered" by whom? By Deists? I've yet to mee a deist who isn't a secularist. Most people who know of deism and what it's general principle is would also agree.
Iconoclastithon 6 months ago
Deism is a type of Philosophy. Deists believe in GOD and we believe that through science, Logic, and reasoning we can understand how GOD created the universe. We don't believe in any form of biblical text or divine revelation.
MrSammy2014 7 months ago
ok so are deist going get involed with christian thesist fight and how fun will it be
starscreamdkmo 8 months ago
If it was up to the Christian crackpots we'd all still be liviing in the fields of the feudal landlord. Christianity is a model of oppression.
RayL1983 9 months ago
There seems to be a general concensus that the 1st wave of Europeans who came to America did so mostly to flee the repression of religion. So it seems ironic that America now has one of the highest ratios of Christians to Atheists.
Add to that that in every case Atheist videos get very high ratings & Theist videos score near the bottom AND that Christian videos usually have comments and/or ratings disabled.
Why are they hiding? Could it be that they KNOW their propaganda is bullshit?
warren52nz 1 year ago
@warren52nz It's probably because atheists spend more time on the webz especially on youtube (hence the name youtube atheists or statheists). Also the 1st wave of of Europeans that came to America to flee the repression of religion were also christians, some of them just being deistic merchants.
mana2432 8 months ago
@mana2432 True but virtually everyone was religious back in those days because God was the only way to "explain" how we got here and why everything fits together so perfectly.
The human mind has a "need to know" function built into it and if we don't know, we make it up.
Now that we actually DO know a lot about what's going on around here we don't need to explain it with a magical sky daddy with an appalling attendance record.
The God of the Gaps. Not many places for him these days.
warren52nz 8 months ago
@mana2432 As for Atheists spending more time on YT, that's not surprising. Atheists have inquiring minds, religious people don't. They already have their "answers" and the last thing they want is to look around with an open mind because doing so would illuminate conflicts with what they believe.
It's well established that the lower the IQ/Education, the more likely someone is to be religious. And violent.
watch?v=VdtwTeBPYQA&feature=related
warren52nz 8 months ago
@warren52nz Being an atheist does not automatically make you any more intelligent. I think you know this already. Look around youtube, where we have a bunch of them who don't believe in a deity, yet they substitute him for a state, especially the collectivist type, which is pretty ridiculous, and the worst ones are the evangelical type like calpurnpisso. That is what I'm trying to say. I'm sort of a deist/apatheist.
mana2432 8 months ago
@mana2432 "Being an atheist does not automatically make you any more intelligent"
True such generalizations aren't always true. But being religious requires you to ignore certain evidence and defend irrational beliefs and that's less likely for an intelligent person thus the skewed tendency.
There may be a higher intelligence involved in setting this all up but there's no way to know ANYTHING about it unless it shows up and tells us. Not happening anytime soon I'd say.
warren52nz 8 months ago
This is why I am a Deist and left islam.Deism concept of God is similar to Islam! With exception that Deism does not agree with Islam on many issues but agrees only in the concept of Tawheed(Oneness of the Creator). Read Thomas Paine's - Age of Reason.
cris750 1 year ago
The republics of France and U.S. America were meant to be DEISTic nations. Read the final chapter of Thomas Paine's - " Age of Reason ". It was supposed to evolve under the protection of a republic form of government and under this protection the society would transform into a Deistic and tolerant society. This was the intent of the american founders! To allow the freedom of religion so eventually through this freedom of education that all ppl would lift their veils and see the light of DEISM!
cris750 1 year ago
@aminysunshine I think not but it shares key figures. I don't know much about the two except a few documentaries and Dan Brown novels. I would think that the Freemason's defiantly wouldn't have connections to deism but they are so secret it's anyone's guess. As for the Illuminati more likely because they take a fancy to science over religion which is the whole point of deism.
ravenheart93 1 year ago
@aminysunshine Your caps lock is on. Yes. deism.com - upper left
michaelrose93 1 year ago
I can't believe you missed one of the most important quotes of all. George Washington, in the Treaty of Tripoli stated - "The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion" - Sums it up.
michaelrose93 1 year ago
matthew 15:25-26 sounds very racist
MountArarat7 1 year ago
nice music
MountArarat7 1 year ago
I am a Deist
MountArarat7 1 year ago
Comment removed
MountArarat7 1 year ago
Good vid, I consistantly come across Americans who believe that the US was founded ON Christianity, these are more often than not the same people who are clearly racist bigots with quite often a love for guns & believe that the earth is only 6000yrs old (LOL). Oh and most of them have NEVER actually read the constitution. It almost seems that religion, ignorance, racism & violence all go together like pees in a pod.
JAX301209 1 year ago
Great music. Your movie inspired me to do more research on the topic. Thank you.
jobfromdayone 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Both atheism and religion are false concepts. Deism is the only truth to life. If you were born with advanced DNA and superior RNA like all deists possess then you would see the truth. If you have not evolved to our level then evolution has failed you and you are nothing but waste. Deism.com
XDanny420 1 year ago
What about all this "Sacred Fire" stuff about Washington being a big Christian?
lizardman77 1 year ago
Wow, someone who actually knows what he's talking about, congratulations! But I think they wanted a Secular nation that ignores God completely. Mainly because most Deists think morals come from genetic and cultural evolution and not directly from their God.
hlyleh 1 year ago
@hlyleh That's totally true. At best I get my morals from wise people and peace philosophers like Ghandi, Marthin Luther King and Jesus.
GohanLSSJ2 1 year ago
I am atheist, but my opinion is that being Deist is the most intelligent way to believe in god.
JUANMO94 1 year ago
I think Mark Twain summed up Jesus the best:
"If Christ were here there is one thing he would not be--a Christian."
TheMrDeist 1 year ago 4
Great video!
mikethecolorist 1 year ago
I think Deist nation, best describes the U.S.A
googlexxxxxxx 2 years ago 4
@googlexxxxxxx i would say secular nation
moh490234890238490 1 year ago
@moh490234890238490 I respectfully disagree, there are many references to a god in the early official documents of the U.S, but then again, one can be both secular and deistic at the same time, "secular" is without religion, god is not inherent with organised religion.
googlexxxxxxx 1 year ago
@googlexxxxxxx
yes there are references to a god in those documents but 1)it was just tradition to write god in a document at that period in time. 2)it was the deist god or the divine watchmaker that descartes "came up with" 3)it was meant to be a secular nation. one of thomas jefferson's writings states what he thought about the first amendment. to him, it was a separation of church and state.
856893tfr 1 year ago
@googlexxxxxxx
now, the other side.........i was just reading an article on this 2 minutes ago, and it states that according to stats, that out of the 100 percent of americans that claimed to be christian, 50 percent of of them actually fit the "deist" belief system better than they do the christian belief system. so in a sense, i think about it as: the USA was meant to be secular at first, but the people today have deist beliefs, ie, reason, science, philosophy, a distant god, etc.
856893tfr 1 year ago
I am a deist because I believe in Natures God. To me natures God is Infinity where it all started. Something in infinity decided to evolve and thats what we are all doing evolving.
petebax1 2 years ago
I am a Zoroastrian Deist. Believe it or not but Gathic Zoroastrianism is the oldest form of Rational Deism.
You can read the Gathas of Zarathushtra @
Zarathushtra
.
Org
Jhaub420 2 years ago 3
It's interesting though. The Deost founders did'nt create the U.S.A. to be a Deist nation either. They simply made it to be a democratic secular country under enlightenment principals.
Iconoclastithon 2 years ago 16
@Iconoclastithon You mean "principles." And the video mistakenly makes the OPPOSITE mistake, repeatedly, and instead means to say: "Principal" Author(s).
nhprman 1 year ago
@Iconoclastithon
I believe that is the point he is trying to make with this video. He's simply stating that not all the founding fathers of the U.S. were Christians that wanted to make a Christian nation.
antihero85 1 year ago
@Iconoclastithon
America was founded on the principles of Deism. Of freedom of thought and Liberty.
dyne313 1 year ago
@Iconoclastithon Yeah, if we had christians that created the U.S., we would all be forced to stamp "GOD LOVES YOU" on our forehead every morning. Thank goodness for deism based founding fathers!
coolsims94 4 months ago
@Iconoclastithon Sorry this reply is SO late, but I just became interest in Deism and checked out this video, where I saw your comment. This country was founded as a republic. In a democracy the majority (say 51%) basically rules the rest. The republic is supposed to be ruled by law (the constitution etc.) and protect the other 49%. Democracies do not last.
BronsonKatz 2 months ago
@BronsonKatz
yes. A republic.
Dramactica 2 months ago
@Iconoclastithon
so true. people need to read history more often.
Dramactica 2 months ago
Very rousing. And sure to make fundamentalists come at you with a hatchet in the name of the Lawd and love. lol
gustjorodedheo 2 years ago
I love the USA!!!!!!!!!
dianddra999 2 years ago 4
People that don't respect nature don't deserve to reap it's benefits.
jaymthegenius 2 years ago 6
Another good one: wiki (dot) ironchariots (dot) org/index (dot) php?title=Christian_nation
Surhotchaperchlorome 2 years ago
I practice Islam, But i thank you for this. Deist and TRUE Islam are A LOT in common. Thanks my brother i like it alot. Thats christanity for you. HA:-)
MRDINIRO 2 years ago
Also the Founding Fathers had a trip to Tripoli and signed a document saying that America is not founded in any sense upon the Christian religion.
jaymthegenius 2 years ago 20
well done fellow deist! we are too few in this world
oddjob29 2 years ago 4
I just been converted to Deism and its awesome
Tacom4ster 2 years ago
@Tacom4ster
Same this really is and should be a Deist country
TheLoneWolf1921 2 years ago
cool story bro.
rudyisawesome00 2 years ago
Matthew 15:25-26 doesn't sound racist Could you explain?
ZeroSeigi 2 years ago
Jesus says that he's only come for certain chosen people and others are dogs who must beg for scraps.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago 5
That doesn't sound that. Are you lying?
ZeroSeigi 2 years ago
I'm curious as to how you interpret these verses.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
Well the last one Jesus said he came for the lost sheep of Israel. Those who don't know God not for those who already know. He wanted to help those who most needed it. How is that racist again?
ZeroSeigi 2 years ago
That's a really interesting interpretation. That's not what's actually written but there you go.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago 4
@DeistPaladin y new favorite is numbers 5... dont like your wife, poison her sayeth the lard
skwerl23 10 months ago
@DeistPaladin you do realize that mathew 15:25 is about a demon possessed woman not a woman. it does say that jesus doesnt want to through bread to dogs, but he is implying a demon not a woman, i am atheist, but it saddens me when other atheists attack the bible in ways that arent attackable... its called quote mining, another example is luke 19:27-28... if you take it out of context it looks bad
skwerl23 10 months ago
@skwerl23 I just re-read the passage to be sure I hadn't missed something. It is as I remembered it. It's the woman's DAUGHTER who was possessed and Jesus made it clear why he wasn't helping the mother.
DeistPaladin 10 months ago
Amazing video.
ThePissedOff 2 years ago
in what way does the constitution separate church and state?
mccliffton 2 years ago
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof....." (Ammendment 1)
frphillipmullet 2 years ago
that means that the government must keep out of the churches and religions. it in no way implies that religion is not allowed in government, like this video implies. you are correct that there is a separation but not in the way this video implies.
mccliffton 2 years ago
I'd be curious to know what hypothetical scenerio you can envision in which a religion influences the government without the government, in turn, eventually establishing that religion as an official state church.
James Madison wrote as much that you can only keep that from happening by keeping religion out of the government.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
maybe something like the united states, hypothetically speaking. In 1785, in Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, Madison wrote:
"It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage. Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe."
mccliffton 2 years ago
james madison approved of the 1776 virginia bill of rights and its 16th clause which says, in part: "It is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other."
mccliffton 2 years ago
James Madison may have been forced by political considerations to approve such a bill but when it came to his personal views, he made them clear. He also acted accordingly as president, vetoing legislation that would blur the line between government and religion.
But you never answered my question. Map out a scenerio where religion can influence the government without the government establishing or favoring one religion over others.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
"Religion is the basis and Foundation of Government.... We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."
james madison june 20, 1785
mccliffton 2 years ago
Where did you get this quote? From actual writtings of Madison? If so, footnote so I can look them up. Or did you get them from Wallbuilders?
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
no i did not get this quote from wallbuilders. this can be found in many places. it is said to be a quote to the general assembly of the state of virginia in 1778 though i admit it is disputed. it would not be out of character though considering that he has made many similar statements.
mccliffton 2 years ago
why do you assume madison was forced by political consideration to approve the bill? maybe i will just assume that he vetoed legislation as president that would blur the line beween church and state. i assume he is a christian based on the hand written notes in his personal bible. and i did answer your question. the united states would be a good example of a state which is heavily influenced by religion without any official state religions.
mccliffton 2 years ago
QUOTE: "why do you assume madison was forced by political consideration to approve the bill?"
Because he was a passionate anti-Christian deist. He wrote scathing rebukes of Christianity that would make ME blush.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
"Because he was a passionate anti-Christian deist."
can you prove it? most sources have him listed as an episcopalian. he was a God fearing christian who fought against a state sponsored religion.
mccliffton 2 years ago
QUOTE: "can you prove it?"
The things he wrote.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
such as?
mccliffton 2 years ago
Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise
-James Madison, Letter to William Bradfor
During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.
-James Madison, Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments, Section 7
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
you should read his letter to bradford written september 25, 1773. madison also said in the memorial and remonstrance that you cite above: "Before any man can be considerd as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governour of the Universe." i think i may have already shown you this quote though. have you read the entire document? essentially it shows what his understanding of sep. of church and state really is, and that is for the state to keep out of the church.
mccliffton 2 years ago
QUOTE: "Before any man can be considerd as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governour of the Universe."
Even assuming that this is not a made-up quote, the Governor is Jesus? Not Nature's God?
QUOTE: "and that is for the state to keep out of the church."
Back to our original point: you can't keep the state out of the church without keeping the church out of state.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
QUOTE: "Even assuming that this is not a made-up quote, the Governor is Jesus? Not Nature's God?"
considering that he makes so many references to Christ in his writings, i will assume that is who he is talking about. by the way, do you, from a true deist's point of view, feel that you must be a subject of the governor of the universe before being a member if civil society? i thought God is just a watchmaker according to deism.
mccliffton 2 years ago
QUOTE: "considering that he makes so many references to Christ in his writings"
Such as?
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
"I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare the unsatisfactoriness [of temportal enjoyments] by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ;"
letter to william bradford, sept. 25, 1773.
mccliffton 2 years ago
I searched for this quote in my collection of James Madison letters.
Not found.
No surprise.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
which quote is that?
mccliffton 2 years ago
The quote regarding Jesus.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
its existence is not contingent on your ability to find it. but never fear, you need only look at his letter to william bradford, sept. 25, 1773. maybe you dont have that one in your collection.
mccliffton 2 years ago
Is there a good website that contains a copy of this letter?
I mean other than a Christian pseudo-historian's website of course.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
i believe it is in the book "james madison on religious liberty."
mccliffton 2 years ago
As I've mentioned, there are a number of bogus FF quotes out there being circulated, knowingly or unwittingly, by those who seek to promote the myth that America was founded as a Christian nation.
My sources are quotes carefully taken DIRECTLY from copies of the letters of James Madison and other founders. I'm going to need more than you "believe" it's in "some book written by a professor who claims Madison said..."
Do you have any direct source material?
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
nope, papers of james madison volume 1 page 26. it was written by william t. hutchinson and william M.E. Rachal. The University of Chicago Press, 1962. you will have to look here because nobody except for christians want to talk about this, so you are only going to see it on christian sites, or sites that you would consider credible. but this source is credible.
mccliffton 2 years ago
My sources are simply compilations of the writings of various founding fathers, unedited and without commentary. Historians other than Christians seem to have a great interest in this topic.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
so have you seen the letter?
mccliffton 2 years ago
I searched for it online when I didn't find it in my collection. I'll search again but was hoping you could point me in a direction.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
i cannot find it online other than on christian or conservative websites. other than that, i can only give you my previous source. another question: what, if any, are you political convictions? i have you sized up as a civil libertarian with some liberal leanings. how close am i?
mccliffton 2 years ago
Moderate on economic issues and liberal on social issues. I guess that's somewhere between libertarian and liberal. I've never been a Christian but I am an ex-conservative. My view gradually migrated over the years.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
i guess i had you tagged. why ex-conservative? of course i am a conservative. and do you mean rush limbaugh conservative or george bush conservative?
mccliffton 2 years ago
I have to say that if you managed to transport the then Reagan-loving me through time to see the Bush administration, he (I) would be horrified. The religious right's takeover of the Republican party was something I didn't foresee and I was quite outspoken then against fascism as well. Consequently, I was neither a Rush nor a W.Bush conservative.
Over time, I migrated to libertarian and then shifted away from that when I learned the free market doesn't solve every problem.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
i agree that reagan would be appalled. now about the free market, i hear this all the time, and i dont know what you mean specifically, so i am going to speculate based on past arguments that i have heard. i dont know how we can know if free-market can work since we have not really seen it implemented fully (or even mostly) in our lifetimes. clearly what we have now is some sort of capitalist-socialist hybrid. i believe it is set up that way by design to make people believe it is free market.
mccliffton 2 years ago
but what about free market dont you think works (or sometimes doesnt work)?
mccliffton 2 years ago
I'm speaking as both a businessman and one who has an MBA.
The free market is great for managing scarce resources and achieving the greatest level of wealth production. However, it will do nothing to protect the environment and will do as little as possible to care for the welfare of workers.
Unfettered markets with a federally backed guarantee is the worst of both worlds and is what has landed us in our current mess. Speculators will gamble away and turn to the government when the lose.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
i agree with the last part of your comment as an "unfettered" market, or free market with any kind of federal guarantee is not really free, is it? but i believe that a free market is the best way to protect the environment, though it may not be perfect. i am talking about the idea that if one owns something, one takes care of it. also, i think a free market would eventually make quality of life an issue and weed out companies who damage our quality of life.
mccliffton 2 years ago
i also think a truly free market is the best way to protect emplyees rights. after all, employees who dont like there working conditions can demand better ones, or work for a company who will give them that. it is a relationship between employer and employee that i think has been all but forgotten, mostly because of government intervention. third parties and bureaucracies only complicate matters and exist only to serve the themselves (the third parties).
mccliffton 2 years ago
Let's not forget that this "letter" was written when Madison was all of what, 21-22 yrs. old? He hadn't yet met Jefferson, Franklin, and other great figures of the Enlightenment. He obviously changed his views as he got older.
thpaine 2 years ago
....by that, I meant the letter written to William Bradford mentioned in the below posts. :)
thpaine 2 years ago
prove it.
mccliffton 2 years ago
"A watchful eye must be kept on ourselves lest, while we are building ideal monuments of renown and bliss here, we neglect to have our names enrolled in the Annals of Heaven."
another letter to bradford, nov. 9, 1772. not exactly a reference to Christ, but i thought you would like it.
mccliffton 2 years ago
is that it? you dont want to talk anymore? at least you didnt block me. i hear you have an affinity for blocking people who invalidate you.
mccliffton 2 years ago
I haven't had time to look up any of these quotes you offer since I'm moving to a new home and trying to sell my old one.
And you heard wrong. The only people I block are spammers and trolls. Response videos are always approved and text debate always welcome.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
QUOTE: "The only people I block are spammers and trolls."
thats not true. i have proof. but anyway, i hope you have time to look at all the quotes i have posted so you can formulate a response. my basic point is that james madison was not a deist and at least leaned more to the christian side than not. after all, he kept notes in his personal version of the book you throw around (that would be the bible). how could a deist respect that book in the least?
mccliffton 2 years ago
As I've said before, Madison railed against Christianity writing things that would make ME blush. I have little doubt that your quotes will turn out to be mined, altered or outright fabricated. Christians are known to do this, the most famous example was the re-write of Washington's "Prayer for the Nation".
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
QUOTE: "I have little doubt that your quotes will turn out to be mined, altered or outright fabricated."
now it is up to you to show proof to back up this assertion. you have accused me of misquotation, a serious charge in a debate like this. i have backed up my quotes with references so that you can look them up. now you can either say that the quotes are fabricated, or you can just look them up and see their accuracy. until then, the burden of proof lies on you for making your assertion.
mccliffton 2 years ago
QUOTE: "you have accused me of misquotation"
Or unwittingly passing on Christian lies.
Christian apologists have fabricated or altered founding father quotes to promote the myth of America being a Christian nation. Consequently, I have good reason to view any quote offered by a Christian with extreme suspicion.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
QUOTE: "I have good reason to view any quote offered by a Christian with extreme suspicion."
then it is up to you to look up my references rather than just assume i am lying or unwittlingly passing on lies. i referenced the quotes, so why are we talking about this? did you look up my references? if i lied, why dont you call me on it specifically? but we both know the we probably got our quotes from much the same places.
mccliffton 2 years ago
Because my book that contains the complete writings of James Madison is in a box. When I'm done unpacking, I'll get back to you. Right now, the latest salvo of phony FF quotes from a Christian is just not that important to me.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
something tells me that you wont get back to me on that one. something will come up. thats ok. i understand. let me know when you are done packing.
mccliffton 2 years ago
"you can't keep the state out of the church without keeping the church out of state."
why not? we have in this country for 230+ years. this nation has been heavily influenced by christianity since its beginning yet the state has never, until recently, interferred with the private practice of religion. by the way, did you read madison's letter to bradford written september 25, 1773? you might like that one.
mccliffton 2 years ago
in an 1803 letter to benjamin rush, thomas jefferson said: "To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed, but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others, ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing he never claimed any other." this can be found in the Memorial Edition of Jefferson's Writings, Vol. 10, pg. 379. deist? i think not.
mccliffton 2 years ago
Have you eve ever heard of the Jefferson Bible and the story behind it?
frphillipmullet 2 years ago
yes. why?
mccliffton 2 years ago
Okay, this will be the last one, believe who you want lead the sheep(followers however you want) don't think you won't be held accountable for your actions.
I never said to claim myself christian( as someone that goes to a church and listens to a fat pedophile tell me what he thinks the Bible means)
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
Christ destroyed the temple of stone and the body became the temple of the Holy Spirit. Christ said don't pray to me but the Father.
Many believe that God created the heavens and the earth and then the stories of (the lord and lord god are none other than satan)
And many believe that Jesus was satan(an idol) put before God.
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
Thou shalt not bow down unto them, nor serve them; for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate Me
Then we have the verse " no man is without sin " ( therefore not worthy of worship) and Jesus was a man?
But as far as America, so what, it is about to fall and fall hard ( was this by design?)
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
Open for set up of a one world government with one world money religion ect.
At this time the world is one big Babylon( land of confusion) ruled by satan.
And he soon will take his seat as Lord of this world. And yes the government will be an offspring of American-Greek- Roman design.
So play into the hands of the one you serve, go for it.
Kinda hard in these days to deny that the outcome of this world will be as Revelations predicts.
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
If you're dead in trespasses and
sins, "Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall
give thee light." Ephesians 5:14]
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
One last thing, The virgin birth.
Do you really think that it is not in God's power to implant the seed of life into a virgin?
Man does it now, (test tube babies)
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
"Could it be satan?"
Blasphemer!
Sapereaude444 2 years ago
Most of these phrases are concerning the "CLERGY" THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. The Vatican that great whore of lies and repression.
Anymore phrases you want to take out of context to fit you lies?
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
Let me ask you this... Why did the founders of the United States ignore Romans 13:1-7 which promises damnation to those who don't follow Biblegod's divine right of rulers? You know the King of England was supposedly put there by God. Answer please!
Sapereaude444 2 years ago
I have already told you that it is secular and you know what that means. There is your answer.
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
Did you or did you not say it was founded by Christians using christian principles? And how could they expect a blessing from their God?
Sapereaude444 2 years ago
Explain to us what the declaration of Independence means when it says "nature's God"and "nature's laws".
Sapereaude444 2 years ago
Could it be satan?
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
Roger Sherman
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and United States Constitution
"I believe that there is one only living and true God, existing in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, the same in substance equal in power and glory. That the scriptures of the old and new testaments are a revelation from God, and a complete rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him.
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
John Jay
1st Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court and President of the American Bible Society
"In forming and settling my belief relative to the doctrines of Christianity, I adopted no articles from creeds but such only as, on careful examination, I found to be confirmed by the Bible."
--American Statesman Series, p. 360.
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
Patrick Henry
Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
--The Trumpet Voice of Freedom: Patrick Henry of Virginia, p. iii.
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
"The Bible ... is a book worth more than all the other books that were ever printed."
--Sketches of the Life and Character of Patrick Henry, p. 402.
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
Patrick Henry did NOT participate in the Constitutional Convention. He was good at tearing down existing govt. institutions, but badly flawed at building new ones.
thpaine 2 years ago
Alexander Hamilton
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution
"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
--Famous American Statesmen, p. 126.
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
Hamilton was NOT a signer of the Declaration of Independence. Makes one wonder about the attributed quote....
thpaine 2 years ago
Benjamin Rush
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Ratifier of the U.S. Constitution
"The Gospel of Jesus Christ prescribes the wisest rules for just conduct in every situation of life. Happy they who are enabled to obey them in all situations!"
--The Autobiography of Benjamin Rush, pp. 165-166.
"Christianity is the only true and perfect religion, and that in proportion as mankind adopts its principles and obeys its precepts, they will be wise and happy."
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
William Penn
Founder of Pennsylvania
"I do declare to the whole world that we believe the Scriptures to contain a declaration of the mind and will of God in and to those ages in which they were written; being given forth by the Holy Ghost moving in the hearts of holy men of God; that they ought also to be read, believed, and fulfilled in our day; being used for reproof and instruction, that the man of God may be perfect.
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
They are a declaration and testimony of heavenly things themselves, and, as such, we carry a high respect for them. We accept them as the words of God Himself."
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
William Penn was a Quaker.
Sapereaude444 2 years ago
So was the guy on the oatmeal box, so.
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
That isn't a true Quaker, peddling oatmeal!
No, I figured since you are obviously a fundamentalist of sorts you wouldn't consider a Quaker to be Christian.
Sapereaude444 2 years ago
John Quincy Adams
6th U.S. President
"The hope of a Christian is inseparable from his faith. Whoever believes in the divine inspiration of the Holy Scriptures must hope that the religion of Jesus shall prevail throughout the earth.
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
Never since the foundation of the world have the prospects of mankind been more encouraging to that hope than they appear to be at the present time. And may the associated distribution of the Bible proceed and prosper till the Lord shall have made 'bare His holy arm in the eyes of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God' (Isaiah 52:10)."
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
James Monroe
5th U.S. President
"When we view the blessings with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we possess of handing them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistibly drawn to the source from whence they flow. Let us then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgements for these blessings to the Divine Author of All Good."
--Monroe made this statement in his 2nd Annual Message to Congress, November 16, 1818.
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
Monroe was a Deist.
Sapereaude444 2 years ago
James Monroe was an Episcopalian.
James Monroe attended St. John's Episcopal Church while he was President. "Some" sources "claim" Monroe was a deist.
So it is a claim and has no proof to back it, only hearsay.
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
"James Monroe was an Episcopalian"
You should know that some people may be called Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist or even "Christian"on the outside, but on the inside they're something else. It's been said that Mark Twain was a Presbyterian, but if you were to judge that by his comments, it is highly doubtful.
Sapereaude444 2 years ago
James Madison
4th U.S. President
"Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ."
--America's Providential History, p. 93.
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
Have you ever really read up on James Madison? I can't believe he would say such a thing
Sapereaude444 2 years ago
Yes, I have and if you would do the same, you too would know he said "such a thing"
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
Not biased quote mined books written by Evangelicals, but actual historical documents.
Sapereaude444 2 years ago
Beware phony founding father quotes, circulated by lairs for Jesus. I got my quotes directly from their letters. In my online book, they're all footnoted so you can look them up yourself.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
Samuel Adams
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Father of the American Revolution
"And as it is our duty to extend our wishes to the happiness of the great family of man, I conceive that we cannot better express ourselves than by humbly supplicating the Supreme Ruler of the world that the rod of tyrants may be broken to pieces, and the oppressed made free again; that wars may cease in all the earth,
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
and that the confusions that are and have been among nations may be overruled by promoting and speedily bringing on that holy and happy period when the kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ may be everywhere established, and all people everywhere willingly bow to the sceptre of Him who is Prince of Peace."
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
Benjamin Franklin
Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Unites States Constitution
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see;
monkeyracetheshill 2 years ago
Ben Franklin was a deist.
Sapereaude444 2 years ago
Franklin was an elitist, faithful servant to the royal family. Member of the hell fire club,satanist, possible shill put in place by and for the royal family.
"We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." (Benjamin Franklin, at the signing of the Declaration of Independence)
So yes, I distrust Franklin's true agenda, he spoke from both sides of his mouth on many occasions. ( possible reason there are loopholes"flaws" in our constitution )
monkeyracetheshill