True News 30 - Gitmo: The View From Inside...

[PrimateDynasty]

If the CIA was in fact INTELLIGENT and its agents KNOW who the criminals are, then why would they need to torture them in the first place?

conclusion: they might have innocent detaines that they THINK they're terrorrists.

facts: this scenario has already happened.

[rolynstone48]

So goddamned well said !

The way you articulate my own rage I have against the putrid slime in power is like swinging a double-edge sword through the heads of state , with authority !

I am still at a loss as what can really be DONE about it ?

SO - here we all are !

[111imstupid111]

i like you pointing out hypocrisy

i am glad i found your videos

[curiouschem]

Thanks Stephan.

[stefbot]

You're welcome, thanks so much for watching...

[canubelieve]

Just....wow

[peanarchist]

stop crying!

wrote you a youtube email, please check it out.

[chriswroads]

we will all hang together or surely we will all hang separately. Great video !!

[frateradrastus]

Excellent video. Dehumanizing them and reducing them to some ideology or ethnicity enables people to go complacently along with atrocities. Humanizing the 'enemies' is one of the most powerful tools to end war and violence.

[RebelRadius]

If you were to "humanize your enemy" as you say, then you would take the time to study and KNOW your enemy.

[JiangalangG]

good

[RebelRadius]

Superior values are to the self and that means a sense of LIFE!!

If you value your life you will protect it and defend it.

[mikeybrumbrum]

Yes, but once they had mown down all those troops, we werent going ot forgive them, or reason with them in any way, and thats that. Perhaps you will uunderstand when you are older.

You just dont expect any further reason, once that sort of thing happens. Peopel become animals. Obsviously with you, it results even earlier.

[myusernameisluc]

GeoffreyTransom:

No, the people don't steal from you. The government steals from you and from everyone else, that means including people that vote. Besides, people don't get to vote for "A" government, they only get to vote for the kind of government (left wing, right wing, center wing, republican, democrat, etc.)

[myusernameisluc]

If the case is: If people get to vote for "A" government, and the people that vote pro-government don't get taxed, then yes, following the logic of "an eye for an eye", you ought to be able to seize the property of anyone who votes for a government that taxes you.

There are actual terrorists that initiate force. Assuming 9/11 wasn't a conspiracy, then the entire point was to spark a war. America retaliated. Retribution is morally right.

[myusernameisluc]

If people that DO defend themselves and get imprisoned and tortured, it is morally wrong.

[RyanPig]

Does anyone have any valid internet sources for a lot of what Stef is saying here, the cases of children and old men? I'd like to see it. Not doubting, but need validation.

[RebelRadius]

Your ignorance of islam retards your views and your attempt to gain sympathy by applying western standards to that of an indoctrinated child, highlights your absolute naivety.

Child abuse is the norm within islam.

Sir, in order to debate Gitmo or any subject matter which involves islam you need to do some serious research.

Torture does not work on those who worship death. The promise of 72 virgins is very real to a muslim.

Start your research with the word "taqiyya"

[garvess]

So are you saying we should not sympathise with these people?

[RebelRadius]

You are free to sympathise with whomever you desire.

Personally, I do not tolerate any ideology/religion which doctrine specifically states to kill me.

[garvess]

I dont sympathise with religions, I sympathise with people.

[RebelRadius]

Indeed it would be ridiculous to sympathcise with religion per se, it would be akin to sympathising with a cardboard box.

[garvess]

Indeed.

[MonzLithium]

Except for the fact that you can touch a cardboard box and "sympathcise" is spelled like this --> "sympathize"

[MonzLithium]

So essentially, you sympathize with murderers.

[garvess]

Oh yes essentially. You've gotten to the heart of it with your obviously vigourous reasoning. If you think torturing is fine, even torturing a murderer then you and the murderer are kindred spirits. The torturer and the murderer; maybe you two could golf.

[RebelRadius]

At the expense of integrity?

By the way. Sympathise is quite correct. I could challenge you with the word "spelled". The English use the word "spelt". Spelled is tacky English akin to the use of lighted instead of lit.

[MonzLithium]

actually i wasn't criticizing you because you used an "s" instead of a "z" but rather because you put a "c" into between "h" and "c" i know it's spelled both ways

[TheCapt4in]

The text link for the australian site is dead.

[escapethecollapse]

Wow, that really hits home. Thanks for making this video.

[Nebbyker]

Thank you for making these videos. It is painful to know of all these atrocities, so much nonsense and cruelty everywhere. More need to come face to face with this and do something against the greed and corruption that rules the world.

[dsturch]

You earned your Masters in Dramatic Arts.

[HOLLNAIER]

Land of the free and home of the brave....

[lordtiberius]

Brevity is the soul of wit

[mikeybrumbrum]

/watch?v=0BbyyihoJLs

The above video explains EXACTLY what the pakis (sorry) know about their circumstance.

ROME send armies to kill them, because they are muslims.

There is oil, in EVERY country, but the ONLY other thing they all have in common is that they are muslims.

And they dress in robes, instead of suits and TIES.

The "neck tie" is a symbol of what will happen to any freemason who breaks their secrecy oath.

(they cut your throat and pull out the tongue, so it hangs - like a TIE)

[mikeybrumbrum]

But, as for America today, and gitto, the yanks are, with as much stupidity as normal, AUTHORISING the taliban to do ANYTHING they like to yanks, especialy.

And our british secret services have doen the same, by complicity.

Its no rules, and they insult us with the news. Only a very few, stupid brainwashed moron friek idiots can even think they comprehend the news. Its just BLABBLE,, explained as though it were about Mrs Jones Cat getting stuck up a tree.

[mikeybrumbrum]

But, yes, the infliction of books, and costly hospitals (whihc can only be paid for, by working in a factory - also supplied), and "good" policing (a contradiction in terms), etc., is enough to make them resist a little.

WHY would they want to give up TRUE freedom, for CREDIT freedom ?

If oyu cant pay, you cant play, in the west. Over there, they play all day (except when whities pop up with guns, of course).

[mikeybrumbrum]

I would say that, after the Normandy landings, where our tropps watched their frineds and brothers turned into a bloody mush, splattered in the sands, the Germans had NO rights.

If they had just said "Ok, we cant stop that many men landing, so we surrender", they could have expected some mercy.

Interstingly: My uncle was at the landing and when they stowed up in a barn, he recognised the area - ALL of it, as if it were his home.

We now find we came form normand, in the EXACT area !!!!

[gottogochild]

Bravo Stef. Your partial retraction and correction has only served to make the arguments more compelling and moving. The truth is indeed painful and frightening - like other respondents I feel quite powerless in relation to such gargantuan issues, but I will continue to spread the word as far as I am able.

[xelenty]

Boy I must confess to feeling quite hopeless and helpless after that.. And most of the negative foggy comments here arn't helping.. Great point about the helpless child though.. Although I wonder about people's capacity to be shocked these days...

[RevolutionaryJam]

same, yes I wish Guantanamo was closed down but I feel like theres bugger all I can do about it!

[Textra1]

"I wonder about people's capacity to be shocked these days."

So do I. Stephan paints such a vivid & bleak picture that one might feel the only choices are death or the dampened cocoon of apathy. What can I do? Ive grown a fat as the next first world spoilt brat but as was pointed out, I'm more akin to the stone age dwelling Afghani than I am to the likes of GW Bush. I have no means to fight such people. Even the knowledge of their crimes does me no good. I feel hopeless after watching this.

[lordtiberius]

How are gitmo detainees gulag or Concentration camp victims?

[xelenty]

Come on dude.. Is that a serious question?..

[lordtiberius]

Should I repeat it?

[xelenty]

No.. as clearly your mind as at war with itself.. and that is a messy business from my experience..

[lordtiberius]

Insults over the internet, don't endanger yourself too much there Captain Courageous. Not everyone can be as heroic as you

[newperve]

The claim that prisoners killed themselves as part of an asymetric warfare campaign shows Gitmo's counterproductivity in "Fourth Generation Warfare" described by William S. Lind. The _moral_ level of war is the controlling factor in FGW. Defeat occurs when the war effort can no longer be morally supported . Suicide to draw attention to the conditions of Gitmo would only work if those conditions were morally indefensible. A humane camp with independent observers would be nullify this tactic.

[newperve]

The Nazis had camps that were not supposed to kill people but only to contain and to force those people to work for no pay. The death camps were for those too weak to work after the illtreatment of the "concentration" camps as opposed to the _death_ camps. This is not to say that people didn't die of illtreatment and neglect in the concentration camps. . Gitmo's primary purpose is as a trial ballon, a "pilot project". To see what can be got away with.

[newperve]

Ignore those last two sentences as they're exactly what you say later in the video. Must stop commenting before seeing the whole video.

[bossman068410]

I don't like the WAR or the GITMO thing, There are good well meaning people at the UN but I take anything from the UN with a grain of salt.

UN

Promotes The Global Warming Scam

Supports The WORLD BANK and it's rape of 3rd world nations

Supports Eugenics Organizations.

[myusernameisluc]

You should take everything the UN says as a lie, until proven otherwise. Same with the European Union, or any other government for that matter.

[Anon1696]

I don't usually cry and this almost brought me to tears.

Thank you for the clarification, Stef.

Keep fighting for truth, comrades.

[odigity]

Excellent video as usual - just wanted to point out that around 12m, the video and audio start to be noticeably out of sync. Maybe it's on your end, or maybe it happens after you upload to youtube, but thought you'd like to know in case something can be done about it.

[myusernameisluc]

I think it's both, I sometimes experience this with Stefan's videos, but not with this one, and never with video's from anyone else.

[Adipatus]

It makes no difference who the prisoners are, whether innocent civilians, enemy combatants, or hardened criminals. Their jailers are obligated to treat them humanely. Otherwise such condition of imprisonment should be regarded an a concentration camp.

[myusernameisluc]

I think people that disregard the human rights of others, have no right to be treated with the rights that they undermined themselves. The problem with Gitmo is that the vast majority is treated out of proportion.

[Adipatus]

Dear myusermaneisluc:

What you are advocating is "an eye for an eye", which I consider primitive revenge.

Also, there's no such thing as "deserve". It's an arbitrary fiction. Any state authority must adhere to strict codes of conduct that proscribe inhumane treatment of prisoners, and not make value judgments of who deserves what, especially when no due process is followed.

[mikeybrumbrum]

Adipatus:

You may not like they "eye for an eye" syndrome, but our courts are run by people who are officially dark priests (the divil's advicates). Demons if you will.

Now, is that not a more serious infliction of the bible, on you, than stefbot "implying" the eye 4 eye ?

And they ALWYS say you DESERVE your sentence. So, in many ways, we are MORE inflicted with the bible babble, than prisoners in concentration camps, who, let's be honest, live in a more TRUTHFUL existence.

Sad but true !

[myusernameisluc]

Adipatus:

Not nessecerily. I just don't think that any effort should be made to protect the rights of people that violated those very rights themselves.

[Eggy0]

u r assuming they're guilty.

[myusernameisluc]

I didn't say that. I said that people that violate the rights of others shouldn't be protected from the infringement on those same rights. I didn't say everyone in Gitmo should be treated without rights. I didn't assume everyone in Gitmo is guilty. Frankly, I am sure not everyone in Gitmo is guilty.

[neotechdrag]

Absolutely emotionally riveting and true, thank you!

[regresseur]

america and france held approximately a million german pow's in concentration camps in the world war and and a significant portion of them died. you'll never hear anything about that, though. these camps were totally unregulated and thus disease and starvation were rampant. america is at least as bad as any of these other countries, and in all likelihood, much worse. the fact that we live here and don't see it doesn't mean shit.

[CropDuster33]

If you knew anything about capitalism, and the us foreign policiy, then you would see the corruption.

[CropDuster33]

THIS IS NOT TERRORIST PROPAGANDA!!!

[CropDuster33]

WOW... 5 star rating, favorited. Its realy tragic, iv never though about what the kid goes through. thanks for putting that into perspection for everyone, it was desperatly needed.

[navtel]

well said stef.. america is an embarrassment to the words free and democratic.. where are the nuremberg trials we so desperately need.. naomi wolf says similar things about the USA and its terrorist army.. not unlike germany in the late 30's.. way to go, more people need to stand up and be counted.

thanks.

[freedom3001]

Also, how does your story of the poor Afghan boy work with the reality that many prisoners at Guantanamo are active islamists and citizens of many other countries? Are they also just poor boys who were at the wrong place at at the wrong time?

[OpineTime]

I'd say, yes they are. I feel all soliders are "poor boys, in the wrong place at the wrong time".

I doubt a soldier can exist without being abused, manipulated or deprived, mentally and physically.

[freedom3001]

So they voluntarily travel all they way from countries around the world to kill the American infidels, and they are poor boys? Are no one responsible for their own actions anymore?

[Freemarketeer81]

Does it matter? Either way they have been kidnapped and tortured.

[freedom3001]

It does matter, especially when Stef makes up a story about poor innocent boys. If you voluntarily decide to travel thousands of kilometers to kill in a war, you must take the consequences. They should be happy, because the consequences for their actions are much better than the consequences for captured American solders.

[Devilsfurry]

You said it.

[PsyogiBottoms]

Thank you, Steph, you are a real man. I respect you for conceding that analogy. I do understand your point better now.

I would like to have heard your comparison with the Japanese American Internment Camps or facilities called "War Relocation Camps", in the wake of Imperial Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor.

That, I think, may be closer to what Gitmo is all about. Did the government ever apologize for that?

[freedom3001]

You really should be careful trusting statements from islamists and leftists with an agenda. Also, you should probably be a bit more critical when accepting UN definitions of torture.

I'm not saying that there are not problems in Guantanamo, but consider the sources before quoting as the truth.

[dheune]

While watching (by the way great!) I got, at the last 5 seconds, a very scary vision of Mr. Molineux being charged of terrorist propaganda. Hope I'm not THAT farseeing...

[fromeroj]

"With not rational or empirical capacity to reach the truth at all, his mind is poisoned, broken, degraded, bullied, terrified set against himself, through the significant paranoia of superstitious religiosity". Sadly too commonly available as "education" not only in Afghanistan.

[minteko]

I stand with you in frustration and contempt for those responsible.

[erdal0]

this video is truly wonderful, there are not much people who speak on this way.

im with you to the gates of hell

[Hitoderon]

Moving.

[fromeroj]

Do you understand what "communism" means? You consistently confuse Communism and Socialism, which are VERY different, for starting communism is STATELESS and Socialism has a state owning all means of productions.

It is really disappointing listening (otherwise valid and smart ) arguments where not even the basic terminology is used correctly.

The use of Communism as a totalitarian state it is existent only on US propaganda, nowhere else.

[RevolutionaryJam]

isn't it anarcho-communism which is stateless? sorry to split hairs

[formic]

While you are correct, I believe Stefan is only referring to the Soviet Union in the same manner that it referred to itself. The rigors of changing the historical day-to-day knowledge for something so low in priority towards the point he was making simply serves to confuse the audience.

[fromeroj]

Then, why Stefan doesn't refer the US government as the bastion of freedom liberty and opportunity as the US government refers to itself?

I think it is important in order to NOT to confuse people use the right terminology.

[formic]

It is also entirely possible that the man is just a man, and in recording these speeches misspeaks. He isn't reading off something, or editing these speeches bit by bit, he is honest in his responses and with honesty comes honest mistakes. If you want perfection, maybe look into state-run utopias? >:3

[johnycannuk]

Baloney.

Stef is correct. Communism is "stateless" in dreams only - everyplace it has ever been implemented it has been totalitarianism.

Marx was not an anarchist and disavowed the anarcho-communists like Bakunin. It is the reason that Bakunin warned that Marxism would inevitably lead to totalitarianism.

It is the reason that Emma Goldman left in disgust.

He is referring to Marxism that denies private property, a basis of Communism. Without private property/ self ownership - dictatorship.

[formic]

I applaud you, sir.

[fromeroj]

Communism has never been implemented.

so never lead to a totalitarianism.

What Bakunin warned was about Socialism, and that was really clear, a government with Total control won't lead to communism. Which is patently naive and greatly overestimate the good will of those having power. Again doesn't matter that communism has never been implemented, neither (not primitive)anarchy , free market(Adam Smith) or democracy for that matter. It still proper terminology. And dreams only as well...

[17Spartacus76]

"Communism has never been implemented."

Wrong, google the kibbutz movement.

They're a failure also.

[fromeroj]

I know well about kibbutz, but it was not communist, and that was never the intention of it, even when largely communal, the private property wasn't abolished, and always had a government, much smaller than most.

And certainly I wouldn't call it a failure, was it? by what measure? remember it has been largely absorbed (and controlled)by the state of Israel

It falls closer to the hippie movement (hippie + Zionist... sounds strange anyway) or to nimbin than to communism.

[17Spartacus76]

"but it was not communist"

Not the 'if it failed, it couldn't be communist' diatribe...

They were communist, and they failed. Some rather spectacularly as well.

[RevolutionaryJam]

they aren't a failure a lot are very successful

[17Spartacus76]

They were a failure. The vast majority went bankrupt and those that remain have all adopted some measure of capitalism in order to keep themselves from the same fate. There is no better case study proving that communism is unsustainable.

[RevolutionaryJam]

because they still have to deal with an outside world which runs on different principles

as far as I know there are still many successful Kibbutzim, if they have everything they need they're fine

communism probably is unsustainable

so is the market since it pushes year upon year growth within a structure of finite resources

[17Spartacus76]

A system that fails as soon as it has to deal with the outside world doesn't exactly sound like the right way to do things.

The kibbutz today have adopted measures of capitalism and they still receive huge subsidies from the Israeli government.

Perpetual growth is not a feature of the market.

[freedom3001]

State ownership is the 3. stage towards final communism. The fourth stage, "real" communism, is just an ideological theory that never emerged and probably never will.

So i think it's fair to call USSR a communist nation.

[fromeroj]

Well, if you think it is fair to call communist the "3. Stage towards communism" you might feel fair as well to call communist the "2. Stage towards communism", which is ... capitalism!!.

And if the argument, is "the intention!... I am sure, that those in the power NEVER had "the intention" to left the power. They only had the intention to keep and expand that power, and that happens in all forms of government, not a exclusivity of the socialists (sure, they provide a perfect example of it)

[freedom3001]

My argument is, that "real" communism is a completely unrealistic idea about all people acting 100 % altruistic, working together towards a common goal of paradise on Earth. That can't be realized, so the closest thing you get is the 3rd stage - which is a pretty damn lousy form of government..

[fromeroj]

I agree, that 3rd stage is a pretty damn lousy form of government, and it is called socialism.

My argument was only about terminology, not if (communism) is realistic or not.

I am more an Anarchist (like in Kropotkin's) and certainly not a "Marxist" (whatever that means) or "Communist".

It is possible that anarchism is not realistic either, but we can at least discuss about those, and, I think, the discussions can be more relevant if we have a least the terminology straight, don't you agree?

[freedom3001]

Agreed. But socialism is not the right term for Soviet-like dictatorships. Socialism is a very wide term, covering many ideologies and sub ideologies, mainly concerning some kind of redistribution of wealth. The term emerged long before Marx was even born.

Many would say that Soviet was not socialist and in many aspects they are right.

I call Soviet-like regimes communist because they are widely defined as such, and it's easier than calling it "3rd stage towards theoretical communism".

[nexalacer]

What the hell are you guys talking about? Arguing over concepts that don't even exist in reality? In reality, any system that requires that people do not have property simultaneously requires that someone else enforces that law at the point of a gun.

Do you oppose the gun or do you support the gun? It's really that simple.

[shaybshay]

Well, you are not as dogmatic as I thought, lol. I think I was the first one to criticize you on the comparison and was thoroughly bashed and marked down for it. All I ask for, especially from someone as intelligent as you, is just rationality, otherwise it's just propaganda and like I said it does not do any good for anyone.

[bobbincygna]

what part of this is irrational?

[shaybshay]

I was speaking of his last video, the one he is talking about here in the beginning.

[McDicker96]

first

[Alexlaird87]

first