F-22 and EF-2000 the two best Jets

[notsureyou]

the EF has a btter thrust to weight ratio.

The problem with the F22, is that it is designed to dominate the skies, and thats about it. the problem is that its current greatest threat is the EF, so unless the US goes to war against Saudi Arabia, they will never need the F22 for any other opposition.

One of the reasons they cut back production of the raptor is its lack of versatility.

plus there will always be advances in radar with negate the stealth technology.

Great plane though

[notsureyou]

which not 'with'

[ClarksonsinUSA]

@notsureyou Oh and the Euros will sell to just about anyone with money,they have technological transfer restrictions...Why there is nothing new about the aircraft..... I have much information on the Euro fighter,its a jobs program,in the 80s it would have been a standout in 2011 not so much..

[notsureyou]

@ClarksonsinUSA

the aircraft can is being continually updated. And since it is a multi-role aircraft it is very usefull.

Dont get me wrong BVR (unless the EF has a brand new radar) the F22 def has the edge, WVR it comes down to training.

Both are great planes, but i feel with the F22 they tried to put all their eggs in one basket, which if war comes within 5 years its ok, if not technology would have surpassed the F22, with newer/better radars or some other detection method.

[ClarksonsinUSA]

@ClarksonsinUSA the F22 does not have to use its radar,data links from AWACS and even satellites update the changing battle space.

The optics on the F35 for example is impressive,as well as its 360 coverage around the aircraft,its off bore sight.The ability to fire and destroy 4th gen aircraft going in the opposite direction with its missiles.

[ClarksonsinUSA]

To finish....

The F22 is a updated version of the f15 and f117,the F15 is undefeated in air to air combat 200 air to air kills,the f117 has had 1700 combat mission one shot down.SUCCESS RATE 99.99%

Basically Unstoppable...

[notsureyou]

@ClarksonsinUSA

umm wikki (not the be all and end all ref i know) records only 104, with over half of those being done by Israeli pilots. Apparently some russian historians are claiming that 3 f15's were shot down in 1982, whether that is true i dont know i wasnt there.

In mock engagements its being a mixed bag of result against soviet aircraft for various reasons, against the EF the F15 never emerged victorious.

[notsureyou]

in real life, id rather be in a EF than F18 (american equivalant of a multirole fighter), in air combat other than the F22 there is no real threat to the EF. In one on one combat where neither party has awac support and its a chance meeting, id slightly pref the EF, with full awac support etc, F22..... no smart fighter pilot ever gets into a dogfight.

[JVC7400]

While the the EF-2000 has the upperhand in beauty. the F-22 has the killer design.

[MrGocops]

F-22 all the way.

[MegaRaf2009]

the reason we didnt build a stealth fighter its because we dont really speacialise in them we go for manoverbillities and outstanding results in dogfights at the end the day the amricans fly with stealth in the battle field and we do the dogfighting y they crusie to the target

[ClarksonsinUSA]

An updated F15 with new engines and avionics would be equivalent 2 the Euro fighter and its a 70s design...3 best fighters on the planet,F22,F35,and silent Eagle........

[KARASAWA40]

Such an Eagle would be hampered by a 40 year old airframe. The EF-2000 would still have an aerodynamic advantage.

[ClarksonsinUSA]

@KARASAWA40 YOU SHOULD READ MORE...

Check out the article lemon or Demon the Euro fighter,the silent EAGLE will be superior.....The only sales of the Euro fighter outside of Europe has been to the SAUDIS and they bribed them...Please check the facts....

[KARASAWA40]

APA is a highly biased and unrespected aviation website. Be careful about what you take from there.

The Eagle's record is meaningless, it is not proof, nor does it tell you about its performance vs the EF-2000. Needless to say, the EF-2000 is undefeated, and it has allegedly defeated the Eagle in mock combat.

[ClarksonsinUSA]

@KARASAWA40 Okay????? So the facts are meaningless,just because no one outside of western Europe will buy the EF except the SAUDIS ,who the British bribe..

I'm starting to understand your logic,you make it up as you go....

[KARASAWA40]

None of the facts you presented have any weight at all in the context of this discussion, and I'm rather confused by your last post. If you're still harping on the F-15's combat record, then go ahead and explain why it means anything at all.

[ClarksonsinUSA]

Do you like APPLES???

@KARASAWA40 Well considering you seem to judge things oddly...

Japan and Australia ,have NOT put in a single order for an EF,they are in great need for a replacement of their older 4th generation fighters...They want the F22,BUT WILL EXCEPT THE F35 ...

You see the reason they are not buying the EF,they already have 4th generation fighterS,why spend all that money for what you already have...

How do you like those Apples??

[KARASAWA40]

That has nothing to do with the F-15, ie, you're avoiding the issue. The EF-2000 is not 4th gen, it is 4.5. Also note that the three planes you mentioned are designed to meet different goals, if Japan etc wants a plane that will do the F-35's role, then it's no surprise they won't want the EF-2000. BTW, they do want the EF-2000, it is being considered as their next fighter. And Australia decided that the F-22 did not meet their needs and decided against buying it.

[ClarksonsinUSA]

@KARASAWA40 Bringing a recycled 4th generation  fighter to the market leads to no exports ,where bribes are not involved......The Euro fighter program is a jobs program not any Real attempt to build the best fighter possible..

IT IS WHAT IT IS...

[KARASAWA40]

Yeah it is what it is, the ultimate 4.5 gen fighter. Recycled? It's a new plane. It thourougly outperforms older planes like the Eagle. The EF-2000 packs all the F-15's BVR and electronic capability into a smaller, lighter, more agile package with a lower RCS and the ability to supercruise. Sure, it was never meant to be a 5th gen fighter, but that doesn't take away from its impressive performance.

[ClarksonsinUSA]

@KARASAWA40 The EAGLE is undefeated in air to air combat,the EF has never been in a fight.....

Why do you think no western nation outside of Europe has purchased any...????JAPAN will be purchasing the F35S ,they want the F22......as does AUSTRALIA....

[motormonkeyNL]

germany had the first stealth airplane

[ClarksonsinUSA]

@motormonkeyNL YET they can not produce one in the 21st century,lol....

[wesfranklin1019]

the f-22 is 1.000.000.000.00 and the su-37 is 1.000.000.00 it is a

[techdefined]

The description is wrong.

The EF primary role is as fighter interceptor in QRA duty to defend european skies. Thats why the EF can climb faster then any other plane and accelerate faster then all other fighters (except F22)Its radar is optimised for long range detection fighter sized targets(further then AESA radars). The F-22 is a interdictor, built to penetrate stealthy enemy airspace clean it and act as a awac. Both planes were designed for a totally diffrent mission profiles.

[95predator]

the TWO best fighters, one for one owns task

[bryUK]

The F-22 is not an interdictor. Interdictors are attack aircraft. Bombers. The F-111 was an Interdictor.

Lockheed like to call the F-22 an ADF: Air Dominance Fighter.

Although originally just a fighter/interceptor, the Typhoon program evolved during development and has now been cleared for A2G operations using laser guided bombs.

The final Tranche 3 incarnation will be a full-fledged multi-role fighter/strike aircraft.

They call it a Swing-Role aircraft.

[cr9527]

not entirely correct. Today, modern fighter jets fill several roles, F-22 can act as an interceptor, with it's supercruise, and long ranged radar/weaponry capability.

Currently, the F-22's radar far out ranges that of the Eurofighte.r

[215alessio]

Amen to that! 

Thats what I am explainig to here on you tube

[Logs0012]

The EF is about the ugliest plane i have ever SEEN!!!!

[215alessio]

you are just an ugly basterd!

[fairclought7]

supercruise is no new thing, the first fighter ever to supercruise was the English Electric lightning in the 1950s

[xXStarkeyXx]

the bell was the first

[fairclought7]

the first jet fighter to supercruise was the EE Lightning, this is a fact.

[jNS278]

nO! the EF is much betteR!"!

[ClarksonsinUSA]

@jNS278 the Euro fighter was designed in the 70s,just another 4th generation fighter..

[tonygogap]

Both are the top 2 best jets but the f-22 comes first then second eurofighter.

[sadekgheidan]

oh yea sure! The Su-37 isnt number 2?

Nooo why would Flanker be as good as the eurofighter?

Fucking propaganda.

I admit the F-22 is number 1 but the Eurofighter as 2?

sorry but there are 2 Russian jets that fuck the Eurofighter up in speed, maneuverability, bomb load, range.

What else do you want?

IT--

[tonygogap]

Do you really think the su-37 will go into production. The russians have only built 2 of them. Get real, the su-37 is simpily a technology demonstrater, its manuvers are not ment for a dogfight, its for show.

700 ef-2000's vs 2 su-37's, i think the ef-2000's win. Look at the real facts like production, and stealth, not manuverability. You think the f-22 is a fifth gen because of manuverability, NO its got stealth thats why.

[sadekgheidan]

Who ever said 700 EF's vs 2 Su-37's?

I am talking about a combat scenario 1v1. Both in VR and BVR the EF gets torn to SHREDS.

It's true The 37 was just experimental but it still has an extremely advanced radar and it's more maneuverable than the EF.

The Eurofighter doesnt stand A CHANCE against the F-22, Doesnt matter WHY, The F-22 is also veeery maneuverable and I think very comparable with the EF.

IT--

[tonygogap]

The su-37 is pointless, why the hell do you need that kind of manuverability, the su-37 is a siting duck doing thoe manuvers in those demo's. I hate to let you know buddy but speed is your best friend in a dogfight, not going 20mph doing a cobra. That will make you a missle target. The ef-2000 has more advanced weapons, they are both 4.5 gen fighters anyways, i dont give a shyit about them. I just argue with people who compare the f-22 to stuff then i gett pissed off.

[sadekgheidan]

You think the 37 is only that maneuverable at low speeds?

Sorry but you have watched too many youtube video's my friend.

I'm a F-22 Fangirl (Am actually a boy but it's that bad yes) and I truly believe it will stay the best untill 2012 (When the PAK-FA/T50 gets mass-produced). Maybe even after 2012, we dont know what the future will bring to us.

My point is, the F-22 is the most advanced and the most probable survivor of any dogfight to this day (Of the unclassified shit anyways).

IT--

IT--

[tonygogap]

I know the f-22 is the best!!!! If the most wealthiest country could hardly produce the f-22, the russians cant. The t-50= 100,000,000 to 120,000,000. The f-22 123,000,000 a little more. the russians will probably not produce the t-50 for a long time, america is at least 3 times richer.

[sadekgheidan]

You are underestimating the red giant my friend.

You got MSN or YM?

I dont have anybody who's also into Fighter jets in my list.

If so, Message me your addy and I'll add ya ;)

IT--

[sadekgheidan]

I NEVER SAID THE F-22 IS 5th gen because of its maneuverability, you are putting words in my mouth.

Why is the Raptor 5th gen?

How about AESA, LPI, IRIS, 3rd gen+ ECM and VHSIC?

Not to mention it's supercruise capabilities, extremely advanced technology (Especially the F119-PW-100), High maximum speed, Thrust Vectoring (Again, F119) and a couple of other technologies still classified.

Don't tell me you think the EF is really comparable with the F-22- maybe the F-35 but not the 22.

IT--

[phij92]

nice to see these to modern fighters side by side and not argued over...personally i think if they met in combat it would be very close and i think the pilots skills would be the determining factor in who won the dog fight.

[ClarksonsinUSA]

Never understood why the Euros did not build a stealth fighter..

Maybe lack of resources and tech??????

[DerReclaimer117]

maybe...

[LordDonib]

Or perhaps it is useless, you make stealth, they'll make radars that still can detect you.

[ClarksonsinUSA]

The transmitter and receiver would have to be located miles apart,and even then it would be hard to track..

Truth..

[Antarktida1337]

@ClarksonsinUSA actually, the Euros made your F-35 and helped out with ur F-22, why Amis couldnt do that alone? o.O

[CrazeKillen]

@ClarksonsinUSA no, just unessisary, the speed and agility of the EF 2000 makes most missles practically usless towards the jet itself, it can out manuver just about anyh=thing in the sky and is just awesome

[ClarksonsinUSA]

@CrazeKillen the Sams come in at Mach 5,if aircraft is tracked the reaction time is almost none...................And Lasers are in development,no reaction time, they pull the trigger and the aircraft explodes if they can track the aircraft...

[CrazeKillen]

@ClarksonsinUSA lol, sams are like mach 3.5 tops.. and you can wsee em comming for miles.. the ef 2000 can do a 90 gegree turn at mach one in the space of like 100 feet. (it can pull and sustain 9 g turns for litterally an hour :P )

[ClarksonsinUSA]

@ClarksonsinUSA the aircraft can only pull as many Gs as the pilot can tolerate......

The f22 can pull 30 gs,but has software inhibiter's to keep the pilot from killing himself.....

There are 2 kinds of aircraft ,Stealth and TARGETS.......................­......

[klote2314]

@ClarksonsinUSA

even stealth can be shot down

[klote2314]

@ClarksonsinUSA

tech no

europe already hase stealth warships so we do have the tech

eurofighter typhoon is cheaper then F22 ore F35

and can practicly do the same stuff just not in stealth

so i dont se why we would want those expansive planes lol

why would we need the stealth??? we are in afghanistan? they dont have aa missiles

[edwardsweeney24]

@ClarksonsinUSA , the reason why is because they wanted it to be the most agile, plane in the world, if they did sltealth aswell it woudnt handle as good

[ClarksonsinUSA]

@edwardsweeney24 the Euro fighter lacks thrust vectoring,its not the most agile.......But all the modern fighter aircraft ,exceed their pilots ability of the amount of Gs the pilot can stand....

The F22 can pull a 30 G turn,thats why the aircraft has G inhibitory software,it will not allow the pilot to pull more Gs than the human body can take...Truth,please check if you doubt.... About 9 Gs is all the body can take for a very short period of time ,a few seconds....

[notsureyou]

@ClarksonsinUSA

EF can do prolonged 9g turns, they had to have a special g suit esp for this plane, americans prob have aswell for the f22.

plus thrust vectoring is planned for the next batch of planes :)

still yet to see one at an airshow here in oz..............

[ClarksonsinUSA]

@notsureyou 2 kinds fighter aircraft,targets and stealth..

[then00breaper]

@ClarksonsinUSA no, the usa has shared details with the f22 with only two nations in nato, thats england and france. I am from europe so obviously i am slightly biased but we could build a stealth jet, we just dont really think we need them as we dont have riva;rys with ex-soviet union countries

[ClarksonsinUSA]

@then00breaper 2 kinds of aircraft stealth and targets....It is what it is..

[nem1]

lmao did yu see the raptors jet?? thats like the most amazing thing i've ever seen. And im glad to see a video where these two arent pitted against each other.  Though it seems that there are still some crazy fans everywhere that just like to argue.

[gunit436]

the f-22 is one sexy bitch

[meercat666]

the only thing wrong with the F22 is the fact that the wings have a tendancy to ummm... fall off. but i think the americans solved that problem.

[1ohtaf1]

never heard of a situation where the wing had a tendancy to fall off.

[SangheiliSniper11]

there has been no declassified case of the wings falling of the F-22 Raptor. "meercat66" please get your fact straight.

[promania12345]

hahaha... the best jet EF 2000 number 1 f22 number 2 f35 number 3 f16 block 60+

[oldmanzangetshu]

all modern combat craft use delta wings+CANNARDS to improve thrust vectoring...am still looking for proof of russian antistealth technology...help anyone i dont believe...........

[sharpanator]

hehehe, russia invented the stealth technology. In fact a russian scientist write a book about how you can make planes invisible on radar. The book was used to build F117 plane, the russian scientist works now in the US and he already said that it is only a matter of time that modern radar will detect stealth planes, in fact you can do it already but the radar is to big to install it into other planes. F22 is only a compromise because of stealth, Ef2000 can beat it in dogfight

[trance22355]

EF-2000 is little kid compering to f-22

[cezza57]

haha what?!?! russia has the edge????

uummmmmmm i think russia is very much behind. even with most weapon races russia always lacks. f-22 vs su-37 ...f-22 would kick ass. but i admit su-37 ia highly manuvable

[Pyrokain]

fuck it

[pakyto2]

waths name of this song ?

[DerReclaimer117]

Dudley Boyz-WWE tough enough

[pakyto2]

EF-2000 is the best in the world

[DerReclaimer117]

YEAH of Multi-Role

[dallatorretdu]

ther's a new best european-american jet

the new F-35b whit a vertical decol fan jet system... completely new

[sebster0105]

I dont know anything about the F-22, will somone give me Max Speed, missles n such

[SilentShadow7r7]

most of the 22's true performance capabilities are still classified, most info out availabe relative approximations. not to say that these approximations are inacurate, they're just not always true.

[sebster0105]

You actually talk some sense, instead of retarted comments like  'Cool'

[SilentShadow7r7]

I'm sorry, but who's this 'Cool'? And what kind of retard comments. Oh wait, don't even tell me, I know the type lol.

[sebster0105]

Just one word in a comment 'Cool' is retarted

[SilentShadow7r7]

OTFLMAO! Sounds like a swell guy.

[SilentShadow7r7]

oops, i meant to say was, "most info out available ARE relative approximations" [i'm a bit anal about making grammatical errors]

[Shoehanger]

Does EF-2000 really have the supercruise and stealt capabilities? ;) I don't think it is stelthy 'cause of its ruffled shape. In the early 2000 Salut-Lulka engineers said that pratt-witney's supercruise engines is a fake. And the USA like Russia doesn't possess such a engine technology. But nowadays even the Su-35 has somewhat supercruise capabilities. As it said on every Russian TV channel ;) Anyway, I IMHO the EF-2000 is a serious counterpart to an any modern fighers.

[karlos81]

The Russian sukhoi is a superb aircraft up there with the raptor and typhoon.

Watch 2009 the Germans have a new fighter and if things go as history that will blow the other two out of the water.

[DerReclaimer117]

What a Sukhoi????????? the SU-37??

[CanadaUSAlliance]

the su-37 isnt a great aircraft, the raptor can out range it

the only suberb russian ac out their is called the upcoming "PAK FA"

[DerReclaimer117]

I know that the raptor is the best air superiority fighter of the world!!!!!!!!

[sadekgheidan]

Mig50 M8 ;)

[DerReclaimer117]

The Mig 50 or PAK FA is a experimental Jet or??

[N1cholas240]

F-22 EF and F-35 best air craft.

[DerReclaimer117]

YES I agree!!!!!!!!!

[CanadaUSAlliance]

my top 3

-F-22 and also the Japaneses vers

-PAK-FA, (not su-37 and su-47 'case they're only experimental, they Russians are having issues maintaining it.

-The Euro fighter is really a good, balanced in maneuvering, stealth, avionics, and speed and also a good buy!!! unlike th F-22($133 million WOW, fking expensive) and the su-47($85 million).

[DerReclaimer117]

YES the Eurofighter Typhoon is the first Jet, that on one mission can be f.e. a interceptor and a fighter!!!!

-Multi Role of the best variety!!!!! =D

[N1cholas240]

YA but PAK FA i herd is canceled. And the f-22 is still the best fighter.

[CanadaUSAlliance]

True F-22 is still the best, better than the su-37 and the su-47, but PAK FAs arent cancelled, they're still under development, as u know Russia is having financial problems funding the project, the PAK FA is scheduled for 2009.

and there's a possibility that the PAK FA would be the new "king of the skies".

[N1cholas240]

No not king of the skys it is made to be the same as the f-35. But russia might only build 250 planes.

[CanadaUSAlliance]

"it is made to be the same as the f-35" o dam lol, well since i live in Russia, ill be one of the first ones to see the PAK FA air shows!!

[N1cholas240]

You do now that the f-22 is better than the f-35 right. Russia is going to build a air craft the same as the f-35 not the f-22.

[CanadaUSAlliance]

"You do now that the f-22 is better than the f-35 right."

lol hell ya, the f-22 is better than any aircraft.

"Russia is going to build a air craft the same as the f-35 not the f-22."

The PAK FA will be designed to be an air superiority fighter, not a multi role fighter like the F-35. o and btw the F-35 will soon replace Canada's CF-18 =)

Russia's main fighter jet is currently the "mig-31". We have about 500+ of these bad boys.

[N1cholas240]

Russia has 256 mig-31s. But the pak fa is going to be the smae as the f-35 not f-22.

[CanadaUSAlliance]

"Russia has 256 mig-31s. But the pak fa is going to be the smae as the f-35 not f-22."

where'd u get ur evidence?

[N1cholas240]

weekipide for the mig-31. And a lot of web sites for pak fa being the same as the f-35.

[SilentShadow7r7]

By exactly what do you mean that the MiG-31 is Russia's main fighter jet?

[CanadaUSAlliance]

well, if u think i m shitting... wat do u think is Russia's current fighter jet?

not the mig-35, su-37 nor the su-47 (never)

it cannot be the su-30 too, they dont have much of it

[strizhi]

Russian main fighter force is the Su-27SK or simply upgraded original Flanker. All flankers have been second to none for a long time and for 4th generation fighters it still is. I consider the EF2000 4th generation and most would agree. MiG-31 was a replacement of MiG-25 Foxbat and are now mostly reconnaissance which it excelles at. MiG-31 can't possibly be even a fighter jet since it can't turn or manuever like a fighter should.

[strizhi]

And all Su-30 is a two seater version of Su-27 which there are plenty of.

[MrPikon]

"All flankers have been second to none for a long time and for 4th generation fighters it still is"

Well let's think about this sensibly; ignoring the fact that the Typhoon was specifically designed to be a 'Flanker killer', and is a good 15 years younger than the T-10/Su-27, it betters even the latest Flanker variants in just about every significant area !.

[MrPikon]

"I consider the EF2000 4th generation and most would agree."

Do you mean those people that don't already realise that the Typhoon was designed to replace 4th Generation aircraft like the MiG-29, F-16, F-18, Tornado, etc ? (rolleyes) ....

[strizhi]

lol you've got to be joking. It wasn't meant to be a Flanker killer are you kiddin' where did you hear that? I'm just saying its not worth losing millions of dollars on a plane that already lost the bet. The flanker is easily capable of taking on the F-15 and you're trying to convince me this EF2000 is capable of taking on a Flanker...give me a break, delta wings are thing of the past.

[MrPikon]

"lol you've got to be joking. It wasn't meant to be a Flanker killer are you kiddin' where did you hear that?"

No jokes, that was the main reason why it was developed. :)

"The flanker is easily capable of taking on the F-15 and you're trying to convince me this EF2000 is capable of taking on a Flanker...give me a break"

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, just do some reading up on the Typhoon yourself, I know which plane my money would be on though. ;)

[MrPikon]

"delta wings are thing of the past."

Well seeing as all new generation fighters (F-22, Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen) have delta wings I guess there's a few aircraft manufacturers that would disagree with that. :D

[strizhi]

MrPikon I admire your unwavering optimism. I personally don't think it has a chance but you do and I respect that. Well I'll do some research, I guess it is a pretty neat plane with top notch avionics. However does it have stealth ability? Su-35 does and I even believe the radar on the Su-35 is much more powerful. My money is on the Russian SuperFlanker but thats just me. Plus with really powerful two jet engines with 3D vectoring system I would have to say its even more agile :-]

[sharpanator]

wtf F15 has no chance against typhoon, its a total different generation of aircraft. show fights between Ef2000 and F15 already proofed it. Russian Su-30? jets from india also lost against Ef2000 in show fights.

[DerReclaimer117]

even the raptor has loosed against the EF 2000 in a simulation!!!!

[diablogamer45]

I heard about that one, and I can say that in wartime, that sort of kill would not have happened.

[DerReclaimer117]

not necessarily....

[sharpanator]

f-15 and flanker will have no chance against modern typhoon jet. Su-30 lost against Ef2000 in a test fight.

[nikumikaze]

i still think the stealth bomber is the shit

[chloroxjello]

I think it's fair to put the new Su-35 up there too. The top 3.