Fr. Barron comments on Morality, Character and Relationships

[279cute]

In general, priests are deeply intellectuals. They do have different personalities but packed with wisdom. Normally people who think they have the smartest brains tries to challenge a clergy with nonsense irrelevant issues. In reality, the opponents cannot come to terms because they have a difficulty combining the nature of body & soul. No matter how a priest explains it, they cannot comprehend.

[RockyBalboa211]

@279cute: Priests are a lot like Doctors.They have knowledge and wisdom formed over years of self study and work.

[JohnnyDavidson90]

I used to be Catholic, but left the Church because of several reasons which I will not address here. My only question to you (or any Catholic who chooses to respond) is this: Why aren't most Catholic priests as well educated as Fr. Barron? It may be because of my Polish background but all the Polish priests I have met are greatly opposed to any form of questioning, much less discussion. They seem to only want to go through the motions of administering the sacrament and little else. Why is that?

[Komnenos1234]

@JohnnyDavidson90

As far as I know, the Catholic Church is the only church that requires its priesthood to have a degree in philosophy. It may be that many think the duty of paying deference to authority means questioning nothing, however I doubt that this is the disposition of the Catholic clergy in general. I've met some seriously smart priests who are also for the record also very moral in their private lives.

[StaturorytrOy]

as a young person i really appreciate your intellectually provoking way of discussing common topics.

[CoryTheRaven]

Having listened attentively to the stories of my elders, I think you overestimate the idea of commitment 10, 15, 25, 35, 65, etc. years ago.

That said, I have noticed in my experience that the most saintly people tend to be the morally hardest on themselves while the most abhorent people tend to be most satisfied with their inner goodness.

[TheArnhemKnight]

@CoryTheRaven You make an interesting point.

[AZ0960036]

I've been trying to find a good book on Catholic personalism. I, however, have only come across very expensive books that are, according to comments, "poorly translated." Any suggestions on good Catholic/Thomist Personalism?

[BeantownJim]

ty fr

[elicitwildly]

This is incredibly profound and true. Thank you, Father.

[Krisag1]

I agree with Sax's view on the 'hook-up' culture, and his book is indeed an important part of the current scholarship taking place among sex/gender differences & similarities. However, I would also suggest Rebecca Jordan-Young's book 'Brain Storm' for parents, which alerts us to lasting 'scientific' claims about the sexes. 

[MrTheRealist]

brilliant distillation

[samuelsixvids]

The rape cover by Ratzinger, it is moral? Telling little children that they were born with original sin, is it moral? Christianity stealing humanism is moral? Father you are so full of shit you dont even know it. Theology is philosophy with wishful thinking. Get a wife.

[mdleavitt2112]

@samuelsixvids Are atheist communists who have murdered hundreds of millions of people in the name of "humanism" moral? How about the murder of millions upon millions of black (mostly) babies in America in the name of "humanism." Glass houses my friend. I'll put the Christian moral record up against the "humanist" moral record any day of the week.

[AdorationChapel]

@wordonfirevideo Well said.

[retsea1]

The thing I like about this video is that it spans much wider than just the body of Man. For example, we as people are the souls of our nation and our nation is our body. Whenever we mess up or slip up or give an exception to sin, we, the soul, become corrupt and so our nation, the body, as a whole becomes corrupt. Now picture that in God's view of the World and Man as a whole.

[mdleavitt2112]

It seems to me that the God meant the body to be one with the spirit. Considering that we will be resurrected with a physical body, the body and the spirit are meant to be one one soul (or sole, as in one). So that means that you can't effect one without the other. Sex embodies that symbiotic relationship between spirit and body better than anything. We become co-creators with God in this very physical act. Thank you Father Barron for reminding us of that!

[Defton19881]

I read the Theology of Body arranged by Christopher West and I listen to some sermons and lectuars from our croatia/canadian priest don Damir Stojić also on TOB, and it was liberating. That is the true sexual freedom. Fr. Barron, thank you for everything! Greetins from a Croat from Bosnia and Herzegovina! I'll spread your apostolic work around.... :)

[quezcatol]

I actually have a serious question, can you be a christian without ever visiting a church? my sister claims to be one on the same basis which I mentioned.

ps! we're swedish, so we are way more liberal,I guess? on everything.

[psiroki]

@quezcatol John 6,53 "I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you."

Meaning: you can be a "good person" (as mentioned), believe in our God, but if you want to be a born-again Christian you should attend mass. There's a depth to it which your sister hasn't explored.

[itslifeisall]

@psiroki There may well be a depth that she has explored and you have not. Many have found their spiritual life to grow deeper and more meaningful in moving away from the church, so your statement certainly does not hold true for all.

[psiroki]

@itslifeisall

That's a speculative statement and I hardly want to participate in a speculative debate, so I'll just explain my train of thought.

She said she's Christian, which means she's a follower of Jesus. If she doesn't go to church, she doesn't receive communion, which is very crucial in Christianity (the quote refers to this fact very directly). She may well be very religious except that religion is not Christianity.

[itslifeisall]

@psiroki You have explained your experience of Christianity quite well, and I certainly respect that.  However, this is not everyone's experience of the Christian message and its teaching, nor do all who follow Christ's teaching accept the dogma you have put forth.

[psiroki]

@itslifeisall It is a very basic part of the Christian teaching, I honestly don't know one how can ignore that or interpret it otherwise.

[itslifeisall]

@psiroki Actually, it has been made a basic part of mainstream Christianity, and Catholicism in particular. However, it is a very small part of the teachings of Christ and a small part of many Christian denominations. For many, love, compassion and surrender as well as how one views themselves in relation to fellow humans and to God is much more central to Christian teachings than the ritual of the Eucharist.

[psiroki]

@itslifeisall The conclusion is general and conjectural. Also the Eucharist is not a rite, it's a sacrament: _huge_ difference. My question is: while you're obviously ignoring that part, I wonder why is it OK to do that? Why not pursue the fullness of the teachings?

[itslifeisall]

@psiroki I have said nothing about my relationship with the Eucharist, but it is OK because there are those who feel they find the fullness of the teachings without it. This whole exchange started as a response to your statement that there was a depth to Christianity that one could not experience without attending mass. While this may be your experience I do not feel that is a judgement that you are in any way qualified to make as regards the experience of someone else.

[TibbieT]

@itslifeisall I completely agree with you in opposition to psiroki, that, in fact, there is a depth to Christianity that one CAN experience without attending church. I am a Christian but not a Catholic, and I don't agree with the Eucharist at all, yet I find the videos of Father Barron tremendously inspiring. He seems to radiate decency and integrity, and has the gift of communicating complex ideas very clearly and simply so that everyone can understand. I have the highest respect for him.

[psiroki]

@itslifeisall That's no fullness of teachings if you dismiss parts of the teachings. If she would say she doesn't believe Jesus ever said that, I understand. Otherwise I'd love to know the grounds of dismissal.

On the other hand in some sense you're right, since our knowledge is imperfect (1 Cor 13,12) and God acts where he pleases (John 3,8), so who am I to judge. Nobody has the fullness of the truth in this world.

[TibbieT]

@psiroki If by "she", you mean me, you've put it in a nutshell: I don't believe Jesus ever said that, or that He wanted us to worship His mother, or let her elbow Him aside, as the new "Lady of All Nations" seems to be doing. I believe that there were original pure teachings, which were altered and interpreted in different ways by Christians down through the centuries, with pagan rituals added, and sometimes deliberately twisted for some political or other agenda. But that is only my opinion.

[psiroki]

@TibbieT By "she" I meant quezcatol's sister.

The other things you said: ouch. That hurt, although it's not true: I believe you're misinterpreting things.

[TibbieT]

@psiroki I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings---I was only expressing my sincere views. If you look at the website below, you too may be alarmed at the picture of "The Lady of All Nations, Formerly Known As Mary", with her feet firmly planted upon the whole globe, and Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour nowhere to be seen! Also disturbing is the "new prayer" which seems to completely replace Jesus and Our Heavenly Father with Mary and the Holy Spirit.

(see ladyofallnations . org)

[psiroki]

@TibbieT I can agree with you: that site looks a little bit strange to say the least.

Anyway I'm leaving the thread, I don't feel I have anything more to add.

[BalladoftheWindfish]

@itslifeisall While I agree that everyone has different experiences of Christianity, I think it is important to be mindful of a subjectivism that can result by taking that thinking too far. The danger is that Christianity becomes nothing more than an individual abstraction that varies from person to person. As Catholics, we claim that there is an objective and true Christianity outside of our own experiences, and it is found in the Catholic Church, which we claim Christ instituted...

[BalladoftheWindfish]

@BalladoftheWindfish ...as an objective fact of history. Many who leave that Church may become more spiritually enriched, which is good, but I suspect they did not know what they left behind. In any case, our subjective states of affairs are not, finally, the test for knowledge. Is there a one true Christianity? Is there a one true Church? If there is, whatever spiritual nourishment I think I may have found, I must be a part of that one true Church if that is the truth.

[itslifeisall]

@BalladoftheWindfish I understand your point, however, I am speaking not to our individual beliefs, but how, given them, we interface with others. Let's turn the table; say one who has left the church insists that only through freeing yourself from the Church's dogma can you find the true richness of a personal relationship with God and that you don't know the limitations of your faith. Is that likely to sway you? Does this person have any right to judge your personal relationship with God...

[itslifeisall]

@BalladoftheWindfish ... and the path you choose in nurturing it? Is their position going to make it easier or more difficult for the two of you to have a relationship where you see Christ in one another? My point? Even though we may feel that ours is the most rewarding and true path to God, can we truly see beyond our own path? Can we know how God may work through the life of another? Doesn't claiming to result in the opposite of that for which we claim to be striving, namely, Divine Love?

[BalladoftheWindfish]

@itslifeisall I do not seek to deny that non-Catholics can appreciate and even experience the divine in their lives. What I am saying is that our subjective experiences are not, finally, the test for religious knowledge. That is all. Whatever one's subjective experiences might be, they must be brought in alignment with reason and truth and with, we claim, the objective fact that Christ is the Son of God and that he founded the Catholic Church.

[zztstenglish]

Human sexuality should be treated with respect and maturity. Its not some 'play thing.'. Yet, what do we see in society? Porn, adultery, abortion, etc; hence, a breakdown of the family unit

[zztstenglish]

Cognitive dissonance is an appopriate term although there are religious fundamentalists who suffer from it as well when the condemn evolution and modern science

[Jugglable]

The problem people have isn't "don't tell me what to do." The problem is the extent to which the Catholic church tells people what to do. If you are a gay man who only falls in love with other men, don't act on it. If you have 7 kids and can't afford another, don't use contraception.

[zztstenglish]

@Jugglable - "If you have 7 kids and can't afford another, don't use contraception"

Goto wikipedia and lookup the Billings Method. It was not only endorsed by the Pope but also the World Health Organization.

[thecommentmonster]

Anyone reminded of "Friends With Benefits"? This hookup thing is poisoning our society so much that it now passes as comedy.

[eskyguard]

I totally disagree with my brother-priest and former prof. Golf is not a sport.

[DonusAmbrose]

This reminds me of the Protestant doctrine of faith alone, in which a person can love God and yet perform deliberate evil deeds on a daily basis. This is why you should never distinguish justification from sanctification. 

[v01741r31]

@DonusAmbrose

I'd say that is a strawman. Most protestants would say that sanctification happens as a result of justification, rather than justification being dependent on sanctification. Personally I would say that this is best reconciliation of Romans and James that exists currently. Faith produces works, and those works help us to grow closer to God. I think James was trying to demolish the arguments of unsanctified people who didn't truly want to accept Christ in his fullness.

[v01741r31]

@Ambrose

King David, described as a man after God's own heart, killed a man to obtain his wife. This was a man of God who did this. The act that he committed was done of sin, but it did not separate him from God. God in his mercy, continues the process of sanctification despite our sinful inclinations, through the work on the cross. I think this view fits reality and scripture closer than saying bad deeds are somehow sufficient to kill our faith. The one who has faith, repents and moves on.

[v01741r31]

@DonusAmbrose

These are some of my insights and conclusions that I have reached over a long time of thinking and reflecting upon scripture. Hopefully you get something from them. If not, its okay, I'm only stating my opinion. I also welcome a response if you feel inclined. Thanks for reading

[Link0126]

Don't we see a modern day gnostic dualism between a person's actions and their spirit in Protestant doctrines like Total Depravity and "once saved always saved"?

[quangjd]

Ballado of the Wind: Yes. That teachings of the Church is all logical conclusions based on rightly ordered experience and revelation. It's simple and yet it is complex. It's simple because it's logical and common sense if you believe God on His Word. It's complex in that living it out is difficult and requires prudence in this unjust world of human beings having concupiscence.

[12aug96]

Gotta love the way Catholic priests speak nowadays! 'Casual','impulsive''manipulat­ive','superficial','trivial','­dangerous', 'problematic' ... Is Islam the only religion that still uses adjectives such as 'sinful', 'evil','wicked', immoral' etc to describe our 'hook up' society?

[deemax90]

@12aug96 Yes Islam is, it uses all those term to describe itself though

[jakeharvey]

@12aug96 Your preferred adjectives are accurate but not very descriptive. Using only them is like a parent saying "because I said so" to a child. There's more to explore and understand about the nature and effects of sin.

[Link0126]

@12aug96 Causal sex is sinful, evil and wicked b/c it is manipulative, impersonal and trivial. I don't think his point was that those things are less than sinful.

[DJDizzy113]

<3 Blessed Pope John Paul II!

[CatandMaster]

I liked this because when I first heard the Catholic Church did not subscribe to "dualism" I took it to mean they did not think there was anything more than the body; but instead it is just a belief that the body and the soul are connected.But then the question is raised "how much?" Let's say a person is raised in an entirely immoral society. Since it is physically harder (though never impossible) for him to do good, does that make the good he doesmore pertinent tohis ownsoul thanthose"trained?"

[JaneAlex09]

As a young person, I must say I found this video to be VERY interesting. A great perspective! & I love the idea of daily actions SHAPING the person you are becoming. I do not always agree with your statements Father but this was simply perfect.

[BalladoftheWindfish]

Thanks for the book recommendation. I have found that a lot of what the Church teaches is basic common sense just articulated in a more systematic and technical way. In that way, the modern period is very anti-common sense. Do you agree, and why do you think that is?