I took the liberty of recovering and posting what is apparently supposed to be your parting words(Let us pray: Thank you Lord for this blessing...). If you go back and review all your posts you will find, perhaps, that you are one hateful Norweigen. Its caused you to come up with some really bizare shit to say, by anyone's standards. Regretably, this had sucked me down to your philosophical level. Ok, Janusha, goodbye(maybe?). Psst, does anyone hear a bell? Cuz somebody has just been skooled!
And Janusha saidith to thou, "Enough bullshit. Ive schooled you on basics for days. You can push bullshit past me. I know the US car industry revolves entirely around the steady sale of pickups. I cant help thinking however that this is only because pickups is the only segment left where your cars arent completely dominated by foreign brands. Nobody else makes that size cheapass trucks. As for the rest. I dont posess the testicular fortitude(I know Janusha) to address any more hateful garbage."
Enough bullshit. Ive schooled you on basics for days. You cant push bullshit past me. I know the US car industry revolves entirely around the steady sale of pickups. I cant help thinking however that this is only because pickups is the only segment left where your cars arent completely dominated by foreign brands. Nobody else makes that size cheapass trucks. As for the rest. I dont posess the testicular fortitude to address any more hateful garbage.
Heres a vid for the less powerful engine setup for the GT Dagger. The testing on the dyno was boner material. If you want the best of the best for engine design, these are your guys. Europeans aren't the only people who can build an awesome engine. /watch?v=atZq47WWqc4
Stefan Bellof set the overall lap record of 6:11 in 1983 driving a Porsche 956 RACE CAR! It is rediculous of you to pretend this car is anything related to a stock production vehicle. You are pathetic if you think this would fool anyone. Now you wanna talk about the Ferrari as well? The Corvette ZR1 guys did state they had a safety cage, so they weren't hiding this as you imply. Even though the Viper didn't have one they are smart. The Porsche GT2 RS certainly had one and they still cheated
Why is it that every GTR video that shows it beating a Viper always has to be an old model Viper? Where are the GTR video's of it beating the Viper SRT-10's? GTR fanboys don't want's to compare apples to apples for some reason. And yes, electronic launch control and paddle shifters are for the ladies.
Are you saying its fair to compare a 8.4 litre burnout monstrosity to a hyper modern 3,8 litre Japanese car with 4 seats and all the comforts you expect out of a BMW ? Its OVER twice as big engine. And whichever "wins" the Viper is dead... Because nobody was actually buying it. They sold only a couple of hundred cars a year and wasnt making money.
@Janusha What the hell does this have to do with anything? Are you one of those guys that dances around making claims then changing subjects? Women do such things. You want to debate then lets stay on topic and talk like grown men. Now, would you kindly address the questions of my previous post that were related to your statements. Thanks.
@Janusha: The GTR gets no credibility over the Viper just because it is a 3.8 liter engine. That 3.8 liter engine is boosted with POWER ADDERS, where as the Viper is all natural.
@Janusha Sigh, how many times do you need to be told that the Viper concept is based on being a roadster. Do you not know what a roadster is? Again, it's a big engine with two seats, and not much else, There are no turbo chargers, bells or whistles, or bling-bling. It doesn't "need" anything. The 3.8 needs the forced induction to keep up. Being a self proclaimed expert, you should have known all this. Also, what should Viper ACR mean to me exactly? I don't understand. Hey... wheres ur proof?
Wow it took you only a few hours to get flagged for spam.
Ofcourse I know the god damn Vipers history and its low development budget. But because its american, obviously its glorified and hailed to the skies and fanboys make up feel-good stories like its engine was designed by Lamborghini and other silly myths. Then they make it into a racecar for its final season to send it off with hero status. Today nobody remembers its history of being a budget burnout machine.
@Janusha Well, if you remember its history and roadster concept, why the confusion of the engine size? Are you running out of senseless crap to complain about? Btw, hows that evidence from Porsche coming along that American cars, and in particular the Viper, somehow cheated at the Ring? Around April you will see the new badass Viper make an appearance that will be yet more powerful. You will really dislike this one.
I really dont care much for Vipers... Nor do I give a shit which is faster. A Porsche, Nissan or god damn Corvettes. I dont talk about single models as much as I address the ridiculous claims, wild myths and bold lies that surrounds these things. Only through bucketloads of patriotism and nurburgring myths, does this thing ever become competitive in any sense of the word. Its fine to produce budget burnout machines aslong as they are honest about being budget burnout machines.
As for the NEXT Viper.. yeah.. its always the same talk out of you guys. Always the next big thing that will kill, smoke, rape, destroy... As if there really was a war out there for dominance in the world of cars... Because nobody can refute the next big tihng that doesnt exist yet. What Viper and Corvette have announced is that they are approaching their race crews to diminish the distinction between racecar and roadcar. So will they be quick. Absolutley... But supercars? Hell no.
@Janusha If you don't think there's a bit of competition between auto makers than you are either being disingenuous or ignorant. I'll let you decide which one it is. And many manufacturers have blurred the line between a sport car and a racer. There's nothing new about that, and you know it, so your point is moot. Again, you are simply mad cuz the Viper(and others) can embarrass your Porsche every now and then...and sometimes cost much, much less. You are just like the GTR fan boys...angry.
@Janusha You do care about speed judging by all your complaining about it so dont flip flop. I have been trying to get you to state the bold lies you keep mentioning, but you refuse to come up with any! The Viper has been very successful in competition, so it does not need any myth making. It is what it is. And who has denied or been dishonest about it being a relatively cheap supercar? Are you mad bro cuz this budget car can spank cars three times more expensive and yet its so basic?
Again I dont give a shit what you think is faster. A truck derived 8,4 litre Viper or a 3,8 litre Porsche. Its always a numbers game with you guys. Did you ever consider this... If US cars were anything like your american hype tells us. Why arent they international success stories? Corvettes are down to 1100-1400 cars a month in USA and sell NO cars abroad and Vipers died because nobody actually bought them regardless of bullshit claims at the Ring. Its this RIDICULOUS hype that-
-Im talking about. Ofcourse there is rivalry but especially the Corvettes are pulled out to compare to every god damn car out of Europe. 1.8 litre Lotus, great little racer OOH BUT CORVETTE SMOKES IT!! The BMW M3 amazing sport cupe OOH BUT CORVETTES KILL IT. As if every car is a failure if they dont have a huge V8 with 640 hp. Now as always, its brute force compensating for any hint of modern tech, build quality and technology. And is it really ok to have ONE internationally competitive vehicle?
@Janusha The Viper and Vette aren't the best of everything but they can hang with the big boys pretty well. It is YOU that is the problem. You have to come up with petty crap and LIES because you dislike anything foreign such as American or Asian cars. You are just a pasty white angry mother fucker, and you make me and many others LOL. You don't care about speed now? Is it because you have no choice thru your lies? What the fuck are you doing on these vids then? Just talking economics? GTFO!
@Janusha Then why the fuck are you on so many damn racing vids then? Perhaps you need to go back and read some of the bullshit you wrote here as well as other vids. Nobody gives a fuck about sales, how a car sells, how many sells, what marketing they do, a countries economy, etc, etc. The facts are you have been shown to be a liar about performances of cars so all you can do is bring in irrelevant subjects. Btw, where the fuck is the evidence anyone cheats, you lying sack of shit?
Yeah yeah yeah always the same talk out of you guys... America is best at everything and anyone that presents some reality, are anti american and wrong. Have you forgotten that it all went bankrupt? I didnt do that. Im also not the one that markes your messages as spam. Perhaps your patriotism induced image of things differ somewhat from actual reality. Therefore you arent willing to accept it. Even disregarding the official sales numbers that shows nobody ACTUALLY buys these cars.
Dont confuse racing with roadcars. They have budgets and rules in racing put in place exactly to make cars equal. Racecars have done virtually the same since the 80s. Forexample Porsche did 6 minute runs in the 80s at the Nurburgring.
Who cheats? Here is the Cadillac at the Ring. Are you going to tell me now that a full rollcage, stripped out insides, Sparco Evo2 racing interior and twice as fat barely legal, semi slick Sport Pilot Cup LeMans racing tyres are showroom stock?
ww w.zercustoms.co m/photos/Corvette-ZR1-Nurburgring-Photos/Corvette-ZR1-Nurburgring-Photos-2.jpg.ht ml
Same stripped out racing interior, same roll cage, same Sport Pilot tyres that they use in LeMans racing. And those are just the visible mods. A rollcage requires a full rebuild of the car which allows for alot more mods. Such as race suspension at the very least. A full race crew doesnt come along to sit and watch.
@Janusha Again are you implying that Chevy ran a Vette with a roll cage and racing seats then claimed it was a stock car in those pictures? You really need to stop with making shit up. And quit hating anything not European while playing the victim when called out on it. It's pathetic. And guess what, the Pilots are an available option from the dealer (listen to the first 25 seconds of this video): /watch?v=wheEOSdDi9w
Didnt you see the pictures I showed you? Did your patriotism prevent you from seeing the rollcages and racing interiors ?
Have I ever said the Corvette is shit? Im just amazed here... You guys love to tell everybody how much cheaper a Corvette is... But you wont accept the fact that this means its cheaply built out of cheaper materials and this means it DOESNT have the latest tech, capabilities or build quality. you cant both be CHEAP and BEST these words are contradictions.
And yes... They arent hiding the fact that they use barely legal semi slick race tyres. Which incidentally is the ONLY new thing on the new 2012 Corvette. Its the oldest trick in the book to put race tyres in the equipment list and thereby claiming its "stock" This heavy reliance on bullshit is why Corvettes and US cars in general dont sell outside USA. Anyone can use race tyres. But its just misleading the customer.
@Janusha And? Why is Porsche allowed to change anything on their cars year to year, but if anyone else upgrades or modifies it is wrong or somehow cheating? Are you serious? Is it impossible to opt for stickies on any Porsche or other European sports car? Who was one of the first to show off the Pilots? Why aren't you crying about that? Boy, talk about closed minded patriotism...and for another countries too! Where is the cheating evidence, liar?
@Janusha Are you sure the tires are the "ONLY" new thing on the 2012 Vette? And even if it was(which it isn't), so what? Porsche doesn't reinvent a model every year now do they? You really don't have anything substantial to gripe about do you? Don't forget you hate asian cars as well.
@Janusha Yes I looked at the pics. And did you not read where I asked you how this implied there was cheating? You are the only person in the world who makes this claim. It was not an attempt at running a stock car. Is this not obvious to you? Where is the cheating??????? You have also lied with the assertion that Porsche is catching or investigating cheating as well (besides supposedly the GTR). You totally made that shit up. And for the love of god, quit with the economics lessons.
No... They werent cheating. because there is no "rulebook" at the Ring. There is no official time taking, no nothing. Its all self reported. Its like having a worlds strongest man competition by having people mail in their own results. Anyone is free to post whatever lap time they choose. But this is misleading the public aslong as they CLAIM to run bonestock showroom floor cars. I believe I said. Porsche laughed at their wild claims. This includes Nissans claims aswell as american.
@Janusha Which American cars did Porsche have a problem with? Lets recap: You claim that Porsche thinks that the Viper and Vette cheated at the Ring with their stock vehicles. You keep dancing around providing the evidence for this with talk of economics, supposed sale gimmicks, track rental time, and patriotism. I only want to hear about the actual evidence. Nothing more.
Im not crying or caring what Porsche does at the Ring because they have had permanent test facilities at the Ring for over 50 years. Surely they can do as they please on their own home track. This is what makes it so hillarious. When Corvette, Viper, hell even Cadillac show up and ALL claim woorld records after renting the track for a god damn weekend. At what point does it ever get embarrasing?
Porsches business model aswell as their cars are infinitly more modern. They have over 25 models.
Ranging from entry level 3 litre sportscars to GT3 RS, 918 supercars and up to 1200 hp 9FF. OBVIOUSLY they have new cars each year.
European motor press is much more professional and bullshit gets you nowhere here. While in america its all about waving those flags and BELIEVING in yourselves. Its FAITH and belief vs facts and reality. Which is why all these discussions end up in hate and trash talk. Its like Im trying to take away your religion. There is no "benchmarking" going on at the Ring.
@Janusha And Porsche's best stock car time at their own "home track for 50 years" was smoked badly by the Viper. In other words, Porsche has been punked by Viper and a few others. Until this changes, you shouldn't brag about Porsche's time at the track as an argument point. I'm just saying.
For fucks sake.. The Viper ACR goes like a racecar because its a thinly disguised racecar with numberplates. Its not magic! As a Racecar... Ferrari did 7 minute laps in the 70s. Niki Lauda is the ONLY person to have done the entire track in 7 minutes. Not just the northschleife but the whole track. Porsche did 6 minute laps in the early 80s. If supercars were about speeds, they could just stick numberplates on 80s racecars. Speed is nothing new. You people just dont understand this.
@Janusha "The Viper ACR goes like a racecar because its a thinly disguised racecar with numberplates. Its not magic!"==Lets ignore every other sports car manufacturer with their "thinly disguised race cars". So what? Can't your Porsche do something about that with all their technologies? After all, the Viper is as technology free as a modern sports car can get. I thought technology was an argument point for you? The only fancy thing it has is an engine and ABS and weighs more than any Porsche.
Are you telling me now that Porsche dont offer cars that can beat a Viper?
Oh my.. What are you talking about. Porsches business model aswell as their cars is INFINITELY more modern than Viper. Porsche offers cars from entrylevel sportscars to supercars, track cars and insane 1200 hp 9ff. They sell 120 000 cars a year while Vipers died when they were down to 200 sales a year. What the FUCK are you talking about you complete idiot.
@Janusha Re-read what I said. Also, I like how you are comparing Porsches total sales of all their cars to just one model of Dodge. If you want to go talk total cars sold you might want to rethink your statement. And a 2010 Porsche is as modern as a 2010 Viper. Either way, all of this means nothing to anyone but you.
Yes you see this is what you guys fail to understand. A 2010 Porsche has active aero, venturichannels, Paddleshift, dualclutch, millisecond gearing, Kinetic energy recovery systems The list goes on and on. While a 2010 Viper has none of that and an engine lifted out of a truck in the late 90s. Im not the one comparing american musclecars to European supercars, sportscars, GT cars. Im the one saying these are in different leagues. While all of america gets hung up in whats "faster"
While in the real world, Porsche, Lambo, ferrari all started doing 200 mph in the 80s and dont go any faster today because top speeds beyond that are useless in reality. You think 7 minutes around the Nurburgring sounds great and validates US cars as "competitive" and best in the world. While Ferrari ran 7 minute laps 40 years ago. Porsche did 6 minute laps 30 years ago. In 1983. So if speed on its own was the goal here... We could just do like americans. Stick numberplates on old racecar tech.
@Janusha Who said anything about US cars being the "best in the world". Don't project. Perhaps, it is you who thinks that. Give me the stock street Porsche that did a 6 minute lap 30 years ago on the full track. Same with the Ferrari. I wanna see an apples to apples comparision for myself. Nobody cares what speed YOU think is useless. Quit projecting words into the mouths of the rest of us.
@Janusha I think paddle shifters are kinda gay. The dual clutch and .01 second gear changes goes with it...also lame to me. "While all of america gets hung up in whats faster". Sure, whatever, and? Complete nonsense and irrelevant to anything. Your trying to find anything and everything to whine about. Face it, you just love to hate. We can do supercars too, not just muscle
@Janusha Did Cadillac claim it was a stock car of fthe showroom floor or were they trying to see what it could do stripped down? In other words, were they attempting to pull a fast one on everyone? Does Porsche ever run their cars stripped down and having rollcages? Who also used the Pilots? Porsche perhaps? Why arent manufactures crying out about it? You need to show that Cadillac cheated by making dubious performance claims about the car.
Yes Cadillac and every god damn flagwaving fool claimed showroom stock. So did you until I proved it wrong. Corvette too. Knowing they would get away with it because people like me, people that look shit up and question marketing hype, are rare in the US. No ameircan will EVER question any "fact" that puts US cars above its competition regardless of how unrealistic the claims are. Because in america.. When things look bad, you look for heroes and sprinkle them with patriotism.
@Janusha If i was a Porsche fan I would be embarrassed of the Vipers 7:12 time at the Ring. For Christ sakes, the Porsche has all those fancy technologies and the Viper is so plain it aint funny. Whats a popular way of saying "bitch slapped" in your country? How about "Viper pulled Porsche's punk card"? Hell, you should stick with arguing with GTR fanboys because thats your immediate competition. The Viper is too far away in the front for you to worry about. I can see why you dislike the Ring.
@Janusha Porsche's best time is 7:18 with the GT2. And this is the most powerful stock car produced to date by them. Thats still nearly a quarter mile behind a Viper's lap time. Can you imagine how many times this Porsche would be lapped in a 24 hr race? And they used the Pilot Sport cup tires as well! The Viper on the other hand was LESS than 1 second slower than the Gumpert Apollo Sport! Not bad for a plain jane car with zero technologies helping it. Porsche is pawned by Viper at the Ring.
@Janusha However, this time of 7:18 by the Porsche GT2 was performed on the shorter Nurburgring course, which is 232 meters shorter and Porsche is unwilling to show video proof! Now, if all this is true, who is the cheater now? Did Porsche pull a fast one on everyone at their own home track (that has been there for 50 years as you say)?
@Janusha Porsche even had the N2 Pilot Sport tires made just for this car. The entire purpose of this Porsche GT2 RS was to beat the GTR by a lot. And they even boasted about it doing so. Too bad Porsche did it on a track that was about 8 tenth of a mile shorter. And to think Porsche accused Nissan of cheating! I thought you said Porsche doesnt care about Ring times??? Bahahaha! Porsche and you should be ashamed.
@Janusha Show me the evidence that every "god damn flagwaving fool claimed showroom stock". And where is your assertion that Porsche made cheating accusations? Are you afraid to address your lie? Here's a fact: Porsche is owned by countries outside of your Europe. And they did it in good faith. When things look bad, you look for heroes and create lies then sprinkle them with patriotism.
Showroom stock my arse. Corvette, Viper, Cadillacs werent stock. They were raced up, tweaked to hell, running racecar wheels and flew over full factory backed racecrews from USA. None of this is MY opinion. All of this is available info. My point with quoting Ferraris 7 minute laps and Porsches 6 minute laps were to illustrate that racecars today do the same as racecars in teh 70-80s. Not much has changed. Car companies try to make the BEST cars, speed on its own is nothing new.
If speed was all that mattered, we could just smack numberplates on 80s racecar tech which is essentially what Corvettes and Vipers are.
Two things are amazing... That you pull out the same damn 2 vehicles in response to every single of the 100 sportscars, GT cars, hypercars, supercars out of Europe. As if Porsche somehow tried to have 640 hp and failed? Idiots.. Porsche offers cars from entry level sportscar to 1200 hp 9FF.
Secondly we have had the Ring now for nearly 100 years.
-And now you american assholes come along, rent the track for a weekend and ALL claim ridiculous fucking records? Here you are trying to teach ME shit about the Ring? Is there no end to your arrogance? What records did they claim exactly... Fastest cars? Not by a mile.
And... Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo, Koenigsegg... NONE of the big names use the Ring for any kind of "benchmarking" of any sorts. This shit doesnt happen outside your X-box. So who the hell did these jokers actually claim to "beat" ?
@Janusha Thats right us "American assholes" came along and rented your own damn track and proceeded to lay a big smackdown on your candy asses. We knocked your pasty white asses off of your high horses, and showed you what a real mans car can do. To make matters worse, we used a car that had your dreadful truck engine and body work that came from some friggen canoes! Porsche (and you) should be be completely embarrassed, especially with the cheating. Fucking Pathetic!!!
@Janusha I have asked over and over that you show me where Viper cheated! It was your Porsche GT2 RS that had a roll cage. Not only that but they also boasted about their time of 7:18. What they didn't mention was they used a shorter version of the Ring that was about eight tenth of a mile shorter than everyone elses run. How fucking cheesy is that. And yes the ACR-X was a mere 5 secs or so behind Ferrari's 599. Porsche blows big dicks and are scumbag cheaters. It's all about the money for them!
@Janusha Lexus should be making another run soon with their LF-A 7:11. No doubt this is in reference to the beating the Vipers time. It has new wings in the front and rear and an extra 30 HP. Yet more asskicking for those cheating fucks at Porsche. Even with a cage, specially made tires, and shorter track, they still aren't shit!!! As you say about America, it's marketing hype and patriotism. Your position is as good as dead. The cheating bullshit has flown back into your face. Bahahahah!
Yeah... Nissan, The americans and now Lexus... The Japs have no racing heritage that we can relate to in Europe so they go to the ring. Knowing how much it means to you americans. But who else does this ? Porsche has had permanent TEST facilities at the Ring for over 50 years. Surely they can do as they fucking please in their own backyard. That doesnt mean the Ring is THE benchmark for all cars. ONLY you americans believe this and infact, created this myth.
The Porsche GT2 RS is a fucking track car. There are other race ready Porsches too. That doesnt mean they NEED to beat a Viper with over twice the size engine, otherwise its a failure. You guys rely on big engines, brute force. While supercars are about finesse, quality, tech and style. Which americans dont do because it makes cars expensive. Shorter track... hahaha you dont know the first thing. Its called Bridge to Gantry and Im not in the mood to school you on it.
Its amazing to me... When you guys talk about "beating" Ferraris, Lambos, Lotus, Porsches.. You see a couple of models but you dont understand that these are built for customers to actually live with. When they go all out, you get stuff like 1200 hp Porsche 9FF. You get Lotus T125, Ferrari 599FXX, Koenigsegg Agera R, Zonda R, Bugatti SS, fuck me the list goes on and on. The industry here is alive and competitive whereas youre still going on about 2 cars of which 1 is bankrupt. Get real dude.
@Janusha As you can tell from the video links i gave you, Europe isnt the only place to get exotic supercars from. As a matter of fact, the Dagger GT should be going into production this year. It is a 2700 HP monster with a calculated 1/4 mile of 6.6 seconds@ 205 mph and less than 1.2 seconds for the zero-to-sixty record. And it is one sexy mofo to boot. Get off your high horse, nobody is impressed. What supercars does YOUR country produce?
@Janusha Yep, the Porsche GT2 RS is a track car(with your hated roll bars, special tires) and it still cheated to even beat the GTR...which oddly enough Porsches themselves accused of doing the very same thing. It doesn't get anymore sorry that that. Porsche has to lie to sell you its cars. It's all about the hype, the European dream. A Porsche in every pot. It is patriotism (of another country...strange!) that keeps your faith towards them. See how it works on you too? Pasty ass fool.
ok... your list of "supercars" I mean.. How lame does it get. Ronn Motors. The guy claims his car came to him from god. That it was devine intervention. Factory 5, a built-it-your-self kitcar. Also sold as GTMalan named after Alan. The guy that sells it. SSC Aero, based on a Lamborghini Diablo replica kit. A home welded steel tubular chassis with every single part picked out of other already existing cars and a huge engine. Rossion Q1, Falcon Mach7, What is all this crap?
-Have you ever seen or heard of these? They will never happen. Dagger GT is a webpage with a 3d rendering begging for money to build the damn thing.
In true american tradition, they promise to not "waste" any money building any parts themselves. Instead they will pick every part out of other cars Do you see a pattern here? These are kit-cars, One-off concepts and wild dreams that will never happen. Saleen went bankrupt 7 years ago. The Raptor died with it. What are you talking about?
You are pulling out cars that dont even actually exist in comparison to the finest vehicles out of Europe JUST so that you can look to the flag and feel superior just for one minute until I pick it apart and dismiss it as bullshit. Whats with you guys.
BELIEVING and having FAITH in yourselves doesnt change the facts. This is complete and utter amateur league compared to the over 100 currently available supercars, GT cars, hypercars, track cars and sportscars. Doesnt it ever get embarrassing ?
@Janusha I'm sorry, but could you please list the supercars that YOUR country makes? I would love to see all of these Norwegian supercars. You aren't riding on the wave of other countries are ya? How about just regular cars? Oh wait, your country does have a company that manufactures dump trucks. You must be proud!
Oh Im sorry... Is this a flagwaving competition now ?
The difference is.... And its not an insignificant difference... is that I dont... And MY country dont CLAIM to build supercars when we dont. So in that respect. We build as many supercars as you do. None at all.
The reason you guys fall so flat on your face in such discussions is that instead of appreciating that such things exsist, you NEED to make shit up inorder to feel superior. Mixing cars with pride is uniquely american.
@Janusha How many regular car manufacturers does Norway have? I'm not talking about the ones that went bankrupt decades ago either. You are absolutely shoplifting the work of other countries and claiming it as yours. Norway has shit for automobile manufacturers! Nothing, nada, zip. The reason you fail is you have to steal credit. My family tree came from England, France, and Australia, but you don't see me claiming any of their shit. Call me when your country does something in the auto world.
At what point have I ever tried to exalt myself over whatever car? Ive never said your Corvettes, your only internationally competitive car, is shit. It just gets ridiculous when you flagwaving fools eat too much corporate hype and start shouting BEST IN THE WOORLD in your eagerness to put everybody else down to make yourselves feel better. Regardless of topic. I dont talk about single models, I talk about the ridiculous claims, wild myths and bold lies that surround these things.
Now... Every car company does extravagant marketing to get noticed. But this HEAVY reliance on complete bullshit is uniquely american. And isnt doing you any service. This is why american cars dont sell abroad. Here we got professional carshows on TV and magazines that would instantly rip any lie and hype to shreds. America needs to build DESIRABLE cars instead of search for ever cheaper third world shitholes to build them in. Today US cars are what you get when you cant afford the real thing.
@Janusha You are fucking clueless. The biggest reason why American cars don't sell well where you live is for one simple reason: Fuel economy and cost of fuel. Plain and simple. You are not as smart as you think you are. Many Europeans love our cars, particularly older models and especially muscle cars, but they just don't want to spend their entire budget on fuel. In 2007 we had 2 models that got 40+ mpg. Europe had over 120. Your extravagant marketing theory is crap.
@Janusha And what the hell does Norway know about cars? They make ZERO of all the cars on this planet. Fucking zero. And for a country who's main GDP is oil, you have some of the highest fuel costs in the world. Oslo in Norway is the most expensive place in the world to top your fuel tank! How fucked up is that? THIS is why there are low numbers of American vehicles sold there. Countries all around your's builds cars. Nobody smart enough in Norway to build something besides dump trucks? WTF?
@Janusha Remember your Yugo? No self respecting man here would be caught dead in one. For me to ride in a Yugo, the windows would have to be tinted super dark...like black spray paint dark! Even then I'd still worry about being seen in it. What do you call a Yugo with a flat tire? Totaled. What's included in every Yugo owner's manual? A bus schedule. What do you call a Yugo that breaks down after 100 miles? An overachiever. I heard that Yugo made a stationwagon...they called it the Wego. LOL!
Who else think @Janusha needs to get a life? I mean really? Every American car video I go to, I see this loser talking out of his ass with the same ol' tune. Its like he holds some personal vendetta against american cars. Its sad really.
Lol, congratulations. I'd still rather have the viper. Classically beautiful styling, no annoying electronic gizmos to bother with, just you and the car. In the Viper YOU are the one driving, not the car. Although the instrument cluster in the GTR does look like immense fun, lol.
@Janusha No handling? lol. On an R/T 10 like this, sure, but not on a GTS or SRT-10. Those things are pretty damn good. They'll grip like mad, and they hang in there with any other car in its price range. And build quality? On the interior, maybe, but not where it counts. Any bit that you'll actually worry about, on a car like that, isn't going to be shoddily built. And styling? Do you need your eyes checked? Okay, I'll grant you, the R/T 10 isn't the best, but the hardtops are magnificent.
Yeah yeah... When americans talk about handling. They talk about skidpads and slalom numbers as if they mean something. Why do you think only americans rely on skidpads ? Europeans... that can actually make sportscars... dont rely on skidpads. Why is that ? Could it be because its just a cheapass way to put a number on handling that actually dont tell you anythong about how a car really handles? They GRIP because they have tyres as fat as american asses. Thats not handling. Thats tyres.
@Janusha Fair enough, but it's not as if those numbers mean nothing. I agree, an actual track (say, the Lotus-designed Top Gear test track) is the best way to find out how a car handles in an actual performance situation. However, skidpads and slalom numbers are a more standardized way of finding out a car's abilities. A skidpad IS really a cheap, largely useless test, but it does tell you how much raw grip a car has, which is important. (continued)
@Janusha (continued) A slalom test is also a relatively cheap, chintzy test, but it does give you some useful information. It tells you how well the car changes direction, and how quickly. The faster you can manage through a slalom, the better the suspension is at coping with cornering. Again, it's not the be all and end all test, but it's not useless. There's a reason these tests are widely used.
Oh.. so you know Lotus designed the Top Gear track. Not alot of people know that. The reason I call skidpads bullshit is because they go round and round in a circle until the tyres let go and measure the G at that point. But thats the TYRES you are measuring on THAT particular surface under THOSE conditions. Still. Its the TYRES and not the CAR performing those numbers. Skidpads tells you nothing of how the car behaves when you are actually going sideways.
Slalom also is heavily reliant on conditions such as temperature, tyre pressure and such things. The heavy reliance of conditions makes these tests unreliable at best and when you leave it up to car manufacturers to come up with these numbers themselves, you can be damn sure they will create perfect conditions which will give misleading figures. Fact is.. Look at the cars that ACTUALLY handle. they dont have fat tyres. Instead they have tech and sophisticated chassis.
@Janusha And you're wrong there. The cars that actually handle also have fat tires. Lamborghini Gallardo and Murcielago, not to mention every Lamborghini going back to the 80s, has fat tires (about as wide as a Viper's rear tires). Every Ferrari that actually handles well has fat tires. The only cars that don't have extra wide tires are the specialized small track cars like Caterhams, Ariel Atoms, and the skeleton-frame Lotuses like the R500 and the 2eleven, but that's because the cars are small
@Janusha Well, in a sense, it is kind of the car getting those numbers, and yes it does tell you how the car performs going sideways. The test is pretty well standardized. Each company that does a (100 ft. diameter) skidpad test uses the same (dry) surface for every car, and I would THINK they do it in the same temperature, too. The reason it's the car is because each car has its own weight distribution and weight transfer characteristics (which has to do in part with the suspension).
Yes in the wide selection of European supercars ofcourse you find all kinds. The Lamborghinis we had in the company whre I worked some years back had the widest tyres allowed on the road in England. For sakes of brand identity more than skidpads tho. You can have sophisticated handling AND fat tyres. Its still better than relying on fat tyres on its own. A "standard dry surface" can be many different things and unless every factory uses the same one and the same tyres, its bullshit.
@Janusha Pretty sure a standard skidpad is just stright concrete. And I'm not saying that something like a 69 Charger would be the best handling car in the world if it had 400mm wide tires. I'm just saying, all the best cars in the world don't rely solely on a good chassis and suspension. They have wide tires as well, because think about it. If a Lotus Exige or a Lamborghini Countach had measly 100mm wide tires, not only would they never stop spinning the tires, they wouldn't handle worth shit.
Some of the most insane cars ever made for racing were the 80s Group B rally WRC cars. They were like F1 cars with 4wd made for all kinds of surfaces. It was banned after 4 years for being too wild. Look at their tyres.
/watch?v=G1BkNmqi1MA&feature=fvsr
These insanely misleading Corvette and GT-R Nurburgring lap times forexample are mainly due to semi slick, barely legal, LeMans race ready tyres. Justified by putting them in the options list and thereby passing them off as "stock"
@Janusha I didn't need to look at the video to know that they were relatively thin tires. Dirt and gravel tracks require entirely different types of traction than pavement. On a dirt and gravel track you want narrow tires that will cut through the loose top layer and dig in while cornering. Wide tires cause you to float on top and simply skid around, causing nothing but mayhem. And since the cars are AWD, they don't require the wide tires for takeoff, either.
Im just saying grip isnt necessarily a result of fat tyres. Even tho that bracket is awd. You see the same in 2wd rallycars. The European car business is collectively spending alot of money these days trying to analyse grip and find ways to put a number on it. Skidpads and slalom is the american cheapass way just like everything in the american car business has always been about the cheapass way. Which is why were VERY sceptical to silly Nurburgring claims and big words from over there.
@Janusha Grip is about 90% the tires, man. Suspension doesn't account for much. Yeah, a better suspension will keep the tires on the road more often and a little more solidly, but not to the extent you're implying. HANDLING is what is attributed to the chassis and suspension. Grip and handling are inter-dependent but they are not one and the same.
@Janusha Oh, and you mentioned the Corvette and GT-R lap times were due to semi-slick tires. Well, the plain and simple truth is that since they ARE street-legal tires, there's nothing wrong with that. Honestly, if the tires are available and they're street-legal, wouldn't you put them on an ACR, a Porsche, a Lotus, or whatever track-day car you might one day own? Yeah, in the press releases that's playing a liiiittle dirty, but it's still technically fair game.
Im not about to have a nerdy discussion on what handling is or isnt. Im just saying Europe is a few generations ahead on the whole sportscar thing. In america they only recently and very reluctantly started addressing interior quality, handling and styling because their cars havent sold outside USA for decades and were falling increasingly behind in america too... When the financial problems arrived, they just werent strong enough to survive because they were already in sharp decline.
About these Nurburgring lap times and their questionable validity... Viper built a thinly disguised racecar for the job and Corvette are modding their cars and running with LeMans race tyres... Well. This heavy reliance on bullshit to promote their cars is another reason why they fail to sell abroad. What you get when you buy a Corvette is NOT a race ready 7 minute nurburgring monster regardless of the bullshit they feed you. Flying over modded cars and full racecrews to the Ring is bullshit.
@Janusha *Dodge* built what you call a 'thinly disguised racecar'. Viper is a model name, not it's own brand. Anyway, isn't that pretty much what Ferrari, Lamborghini, Lotus, Westham, Caterham, etc. have been doing for the past decade? Honestly, they don't modify those cars before sending them over. They put on STREET LEGAL semi-slick tires and the necessary safety equipment. It's not as if they send them over with 800+ hp, racing slicks, and 500 lbs in weight reduction... Honestly...
@Janusha You've been more than willing to have 'nerdy' discussions before. Like all too many Europeans, you seem to think your continent is the only place intelligent people live O.o. Just saying... I agree with the whole quality think, but the sports car thing? We've been not *too* far behind since the Viper came out. Since that car, all the major manufacturers have been fighting to get more power and better handling. The current Viper ACR, Corvette ZR1, and Ford GT show that.
In USA cars start out as bland shit sprinkled with patriotism. If they catch on and become popular, they gradually, over the years, evolve into decent cars. Which is why only the VERY latest Vipers, Corvettes, Mustangs are any good at all.
The Viper... If you read up on its history, basically is a budget burnout machine. They picked a truck engine.. Not for its marvelous capabilities. More because it was cheap and had 10 cylinders. Strapped to a ladder frame. Its as advanced as a truck.
I dont understand how you can justify american "sportscars" when there arent any. There are musclecars but if you look at the Camaro SS, its a redressed Australian Holden. The Challenger is a recycled Chrysler C300 which again is a 16 years old Mercedes. If you dig deeper, you will find a bunch of bronze coins and a helmet. The Mustangs are atleast not based on junk but they can only be compared to eachothers because when compared to Euro sportscars, they fail pretty hard.
@Janusha I'm a fan of all performance cars no matter what country they're from but I have to say, that budget burnout machine with a truck engine strapped to a ladder frame successfully stomped ass on every other production car in its price range throughout the nineties. Nothing under $100,000 could beat it. 0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile, 1 mile, 600 ft slalom, lateral g. Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes . . . all got spanked. Quality was definitely lacking but the performance was undeniably there.
HP and power is a decission.. Not an achievement. As for its price.. why do you think they went and got themselves a cheapass engine out of a truck ?
America makes budget burnoutmachines. Nobody else does. As for other road capabilities, a Viper, with all its might and power, is no faster round a track than your average 1,8 litre Lotus or a middle of the range BMW. Stuff like a Caterham R500 would blow rings around it and costs less.
@Janusha The cast iron V10 in the VM02 concept was being designed for a truck when they decided to use it for the viper concept. After the concept became a huge hit they re-engineered the motor in aluminum specifically for the viper. A cast iron variation of the motor later made it to the ram but it went into a viper before anything else. They used the "cheapass" engine bc spending lots of time money on R&D for a new engine when you have one you're already developing would be just plain dumb.
@Janusha The decision was to use an engine they' were already developing rather than doing something dumb like spend a lot of money when they didn't have to. Another decision was to generate a lot of power in a sportscar at low cost to stay within their budget. Their achievement was a sports car that went from a thought to the sales floor within 3 years and was still able to match or beat most cars in production, even the ones twice the cost.
Yes. Spending money on research and development towards building quality has always been seen as "something dumb" in USA. Which is why there has never been a car that can even match BMW quality out of USA. Speed is the easy part. Racecars have done virtually the same speeds since the 60s. While European performance cars are about the latest tech, materials, art and styling, american performance is cheaply built to appeal to patriotism and nostalgia. 2 different worlds.
@Janusha I agree definitely 2 different worlds but The viper motor has proven Itself to be reliable as long as it's properly maintained which is relatively inexpensive. It's a quality motor that they didn't have to spend a lot of time and money on. I admit the fit and finish of the viper is pretty bad and lacking on most American cars. I do wish they had spent a little more time and effort on that part. I can see this is going nowhere. We both have our own opinions. It's been a fun debate though
The Vipers motor... Was not built out of flags and patriotism. It wasnt done by Lamborghini as the Viper Wikipedia and history books will tell you. The Mercedes AMG SLS is NOT based on the next generation Viper as 200 000 american webpages will tell you. its all a bunch of hype, wild claims and bullshit to compensate for its crude, unsophisticated budget quality. American performance cars always starts out as budget burnout machines and if they catch on, gradually evolve into-
-decent cars. Just like the plastic Corvettes of old. The new Challenger is just a redressed Chrysler C300 which again is a recycled 16 years old Mercedes. Camaro SS is just a redone Australian Holden with some fake plastic air intakes and handling like a soviet shrimp vessel. Its amateur league compared to the real thing. When americans spend some cash and upgrade them, they turn to race tech and LeMans tyres. Instead of making actual supercars. Again... Its 2 different worlds.
@Janusha i don't think any of these cars are "supercars" just regular sporty cars that do what they were built to do. and yes most of the time just like european brands american car companies incorporate racing parts and technology on their road cars. no car is perfect it doesn't mean you should bitch and whine that they aren't all 200,000 supercars.
Im not on some singular quest do discredit US cars. They manage to do that perfectly well all on their own. For all I care, they can drive what they like over there. I dont have a stake in the matter either way. What I find hillarious is these illusions of grandeour fueled by an unshakable belief in their own superiority regardless of staggering evidence to the contrary. Their wild claims and hype. I mean... I dont even see an american built car a week when i travel in Europe.
@Janusha Your overwhelming dislike for domestic cars absolutely astounds me. I don't know where to even start here. But then again, I don't think it would matter much. Petrol head except all forms of speed regardless of where it is from and how said speed is achieved. I fail to see the problem with coexisting.
I became a computer games designer but studied social anthropology and marketing at University. Speciffically for the car business. My interests are in brand identity and social trends. Who buys what and why. I only came into this when I read up on the US car industry to find out how they were able to run it to the ground in such a spectacular manner. Only to find that the general US car business is funded on wild claims, patriotic hype and feel-good-about-america stories.
I think youll find these discussions and hostility comes from this AMERICA VS THE WOOOORLD attitude so popular over there. There is no war for supremacy in the world of cars. There is no anti american hate campaign going on. The big3 in america spent decades linking their cars to the american dreeeam and all which is good about america so clearly today when USA is down to 1-2 internationally competitive vehicles, its a sore topic and any hint of criticism is met with OMG.. YOU HATE AMERICA !!
@Janusha You'll find Domestic fans are not the only ones who will bow up at a statement like that. If you step into a video with a Porsche and start talking about how they only escaped bankruptcy because VW saved them, and even still is fighting, or to a Lamborghini video and talk about their bankruptcy history they will explode on you. USA is about building cars that the common people can afford, bargains, not cars to compete with the world. Though..do you know why the ZR1 came about?
@Janusha So you are not a petrol head in any way shape or form, you are just set out to try and inform everyone who has an affinity for American cars how much of a joke they are and how they are built upon lies and wild claims?
Im into cars and have had extensive experience with many aspects. In my company we had Lambos, Ferraris, Lotuses and similar stuff. Done a bit of racing in more modest cars and have a father that collects old american muscle classics. Im just explaining that what I say isnt ment to discredit any brand in particular or the entire american continent as certain frantically flagwaving fools will have it. Nor am I the one that ran your entire car business to the ground.
As for the ZR1s origins? not sure what you are aiming for... They got Lotus to pull Corvettes into the 20th century with the first ZR1. The current ZR1 is mostly their flagship. As traditionally with such things. ACR Viper, Corvette ZR1 and Cadillac CTS-V, they dont actually make any money on it. Its just there to be used in reviews, road tests to promote the brand. while the cars people actually buy are the much cheaper, less talented versions. And yes... its mostly about wild claims and hype.
@Janusha So you are a car guy, but you don't seem to talk or think like one, or maybe I am missing something. Regardless, I hold any specific origin higher than another. I love absolutely brutal cars with gobs of power on the edge of usability, so domestics cater perfectly to those needs. But I'd be just as happy with any other car, or truck for that mater. No car business has been run into the ground, a bad economy is simply the main cause for the sudden down turn in sales.
I dont care where the cars come from but it seems to me americans are generally far too concerned with waving those flags and having fait. Believing is more important than facts. The lack of actual motor press in USa and car shows on TV makes people confuse wild claims, myths and bold lies for facts. And defend these stories until death. Any hint of criticism is a declaration of war and they talk about SMOKE, KILL, RAPE as if there really is some kind of war going on out there.
The big3 in USA soon realised they could sell yesteryears cars again and again by simply sprinkling them with patriotism and marketing them by talking about american dreeeams. Instead of following the latest tech, buildquality or styling. For decades they got away with shameless profiteering and shoddy quality. Therefore US cars hadnt sold outside america for decades. So when the financial crisis hit and even americans stopped buying american, it all came crashing down.
Just look at the enormous american motorcycle market. Completely dominated by Ducati, Yamaha, Suzuki, KTM, Honda and so on. All making hyper modern, competitive superbikes. While america makes Harley. Patriotism on wheels with saddlebags. Completely void of any modern tech, quality, styling or road capabilities. It works for Harley. They found their niche. But this is the current state of US cars compared to forreign brands. But still people are more concerned with waving flags and patriotism.
@Janusha You cannot use Harley who makes nothing but fat cruiser bikes against brands that specialize in nothing but half and full super bikes as an example of comparing the US cars to foreign brands, well actually, if you like at it as their niche you can. I'll say again, the mass of the american market is bargain driven, more for less for he common people. Look at the type of cars driven in the UK and then in America.
@Janusha I'll also say again, if you talk the same way about imports, you will be fronted with the same reaction. That is being "loyal" to the makers you love. I'm pretty sure everyone you turn to and start giving your same spill to them to try and make them understand how the whole industry is built off lies is not American. I personally am not from America. Car shows and press is are nothing more than opinions. What wild claims and myths are you talking about?
@Janusha Care to explain some of the wild claims and myths you speak of? I know of a couple that is pure confusion. Once again, criticizing anyone's manufacturer will be met in the same light. I don't find domestic fans as brutally stubborn as say the Mpower boys. Why do you keep saying Americans? All fans of domestic cars are not American, I am not from America.
The link to Harley is that thats where US cars are at the moment. Completely surpassed in every single way by its competition by shouting big words instead of following the latest tech and development. Infact if it werent for the steady sales of pickup trucks the US car business would have collapsed already decades ago. Harleys still sell due to nostalgia and patriotism but when that was no longer enough to sell US cars, it all went bankrupt. They hadnt sold outside USA for 25 years.
Being "loyal" and buying american is what has kept the US car business alive for so long. The big3 soon realised they could resell yesteryears tech again and again by linking their cars to the american dreeeeam and all which is good about america. The amateurish US motorpress is full of feel-good-about-america stories and concentrate on telling people what they want to hear instead of facts. Myths and wild claims such as Lamborghini built the Vipers engine, Mercedes AMG SLS is really the-
-next generation Viper stolen from bankrupt Chrysler. A very popular myth right now. And the most popular one... The ridiculously overhyped and faked american Nurburgring laps set by fully factory backed racecrews and heavily modified cars. Thrown around as conclusive evidence of an entirely fictional US car superiority. Most car "facts" in USA turn out to be lies or hype. Their wild mpg claims, their skidpads and slalom, I could go on all day really.
@Janusha like the Z06, of course you can buy a car for that price that will be built to a much higher quality standard. But it will not run 10s stock as well as crack 200mph while hitting the track as hard as it does. As far as these Myths. Lamborghini helped Chrysler make the Vipers engine more supercar worthy, they didn't build the engine. The next gen Viper myth can be attested to Benz cladding their test mule in Viper body panels. That is a world wide myth that even Autocar-
@Janusha -bought into as well as a number of other non American automotive publishers. Faked Nurburgring lap times? I've never heard of such a thing, the two Vettes and ACR that were run were bone stock, the CTS-V I'm not so sure of, but I have nothing to dispute that and neither do you. Claims that they were not stock is acceptable given the wild speculation that Domestic cars cannot turn. MPG claims, skipads and slalom? Now you are just getting into trying to downplay their performance
@Janusha Loyal customers is what keeps all business alive, not just US cars, or cars in general. The big3 reselling yesteryears tech? Like Lambo releasing a new model with nothing done but ripping the front shafts out or dipping the whole car in black and calling it a new name? The new Aventador is the first thing new in some time. You could link that to the Big3s mentality, more for less. Actually, that seems to be the US way when it comes to cars. -
@Janusha That's not quite true, Harley to my knowledge never has been and never was in competition with any Japanese bike in any way. They built the V-rod as a sporty Harley but even that was never aimed at any one. Using them as an example of being surpassed in technological standards makes me believe you don't understand the point of a Harley at all. Unless I am missing something.
Hahaha yes. Thats part of the myth. That people claim to have seen it with Viper body panels. Ridiculous claim. There are even pictures. The increasingly un-serious american motor press will always have such stories to tell. And people believe them. Without checking any facts. I saw when that myth started and because Motortrend spread it, everybody jumped on it and now its even quoted on Vipers wikipedia. Just like they will tell you Lamborghini designed their engine. Alll bullshit.
Also.. the Harley Vrod. What about it? Sure its more technical than your average Harley.. But its not a superbike competitor. And it uses a Porsche engine. Loyal customers is all good... But the loyalty to US cars comes out of nostalgia and patriotism alone. Not because of their history of making excellent cars or motorcycles. Quality has NEVER been the focus in USA as much as cater-for-all vehicles and shameless profiteering.
The reason I mentioned Harley is that they come from a time when ALL motorcycles were basic and crude. But when everybody else was competing and making new tech and road capabilities. Ending in todays superbikes that totally dominate the market, Harley... and american cars instead shout about patriotism and the american dreeeeam instead of modernising. Therefore get left behind. Like NASCAR.. enormous front mounted pushrod monstrosities whos technology stagnated in the 70s.
Finally.. about the Nurburgring laps. Porsche has had permanent test facilities at the Ring for 50 years and suddenly, along comes Corvette, Viper, hell even Cadillac and ALL claim woooorld records after renting the track for a weekend ? You need to inject Kennedy grade patriotism directly into your eyeballs to believe that hype without question. I dont doubt the times. Not even americans can fake time. But the cars were ultra modified and run with fully factory backed race crews. Hype and lies.
-These laps were done right in the middle of US cars collective bankruptcies to sell some cars in Europe and recieve hero status back home. This idea that the Ring is some international "benchmark" is largely an american myth. Sure many companies use it as a test track. But you dont see Ferrari, Lambo, Aston, Maserati, Koenigsegg, Bugatti, any of the big names running factory backed benchmarking at the Ring. So who are they actually beating? Its just a pissing contest between Nissan and GM.
@Janusha An American myth? It is one of the most difficult courses in the world, and just about every high performance car has run there at one time or another. Using that course as a benchmark is not an American myth because YOU don't see it as so. Aston and Maserati have don't have anything that would out run a Z06(z07) at the track let along a ZR1 and GTR, Neither does Lambo before the Aventador. Koenigsegg's focus is top speed numbers after Bugatti.
@Janusha Oh.. and besides for the Cadillic looking like it has lowered suspension because it was coming off a hill.. and you're apparent shock tells you the latest domestic cars to hit the ring were "ultra modified?"
@Janusha If the idea of the Ring being an american benchmark myth was true, why do you suppose Porsche got so upset at Nissan's supposed GTR time that they bought a GTR from the USA, and shipped it over to do the run for themselves only to publically claim Nissan cheated? Why would Porsche bother? Sounds like Porsche takes the Ring benchmark seriously... as well as many others. There's no myth making going on here. I have a hunch why you made such a statement.
The Ring has long been used as a test track for mainly German cars since it was closed down for racing. Porsche has had permanent test facilities at the Ring for over 50 years. Dont you think they can do as they goddamn please in their own backyard? They bought a US-specc GT-R. That doesnt mean they shipped it from USA. Porsches idea was to publically expose Nissan and the Americans as frauds feeding off the media circus generated by these misleading lap times.
@Janusha Porsche doesn't own the Ring so ANYONE can use the track. Their longivity at the track is irrelevent. Sounds like you now acknowledge the Ring is indeed used as a benchmark for manufacturers....just like they do. And what American frauds are you talking about that Porsche has a gripe with? Do tell. Btw, your tire grip analogy was laughable. There are many factors that are involved in a car's turning abiities besides just tires. You are full of piss and vinegar, huh?
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I upload videos from Australia
19Julz76 1 week ago
I took the liberty of recovering and posting what is apparently supposed to be your parting words(Let us pray: Thank you Lord for this blessing...). If you go back and review all your posts you will find, perhaps, that you are one hateful Norweigen. Its caused you to come up with some really bizare shit to say, by anyone's standards. Regretably, this had sucked me down to your philosophical level. Ok, Janusha, goodbye(maybe?). Psst, does anyone hear a bell? Cuz somebody has just been skooled!
thybigballs 2 weeks ago
And Janusha saidith to thou, "Enough bullshit. Ive schooled you on basics for days. You can push bullshit past me. I know the US car industry revolves entirely around the steady sale of pickups. I cant help thinking however that this is only because pickups is the only segment left where your cars arent completely dominated by foreign brands. Nobody else makes that size cheapass trucks. As for the rest. I dont posess the testicular fortitude(I know Janusha) to address any more hateful garbage."
thybigballs 2 weeks ago
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@thybigballs
Enough bullshit. Ive schooled you on basics for days. You cant push bullshit past me. I know the US car industry revolves entirely around the steady sale of pickups. I cant help thinking however that this is only because pickups is the only segment left where your cars arent completely dominated by foreign brands. Nobody else makes that size cheapass trucks. As for the rest. I dont posess the testicular fortitude to address any more hateful garbage.
Janusha 2 weeks ago
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Janusha 2 weeks ago
Heres a vid for the less powerful engine setup for the GT Dagger. The testing on the dyno was boner material. If you want the best of the best for engine design, these are your guys. Europeans aren't the only people who can build an awesome engine. /watch?v=atZq47WWqc4
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
The GT Dagger also has a new calculated top speed around 315 mph now that they've upped the power. Check it out: /watch?v=-uNL4mQt0fs
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
Stefan Bellof set the overall lap record of 6:11 in 1983 driving a Porsche 956 RACE CAR! It is rediculous of you to pretend this car is anything related to a stock production vehicle. You are pathetic if you think this would fool anyone. Now you wanna talk about the Ferrari as well? The Corvette ZR1 guys did state they had a safety cage, so they weren't hiding this as you imply. Even though the Viper didn't have one they are smart. The Porsche GT2 RS certainly had one and they still cheated
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
WTF ? how the hell u compare 2009 gtr to 1996 ??!
SolidSnake3192 2 months ago
Why is it that every GTR video that shows it beating a Viper always has to be an old model Viper? Where are the GTR video's of it beating the Viper SRT-10's? GTR fanboys don't want's to compare apples to apples for some reason. And yes, electronic launch control and paddle shifters are for the ladies.
thybigballs 5 months ago 11
@thybigballs 'cause GTR fans only like to see GTR beats vs others.
6spdtls 3 months ago
@thybigballs
Are you saying its fair to compare a 8.4 litre burnout monstrosity to a hyper modern 3,8 litre Japanese car with 4 seats and all the comforts you expect out of a BMW ? Its OVER twice as big engine. And whichever "wins" the Viper is dead... Because nobody was actually buying it. They sold only a couple of hundred cars a year and wasnt making money.
Janusha 3 months ago
@Janusha What the hell does this have to do with anything? Are you one of those guys that dances around making claims then changing subjects? Women do such things. You want to debate then lets stay on topic and talk like grown men. Now, would you kindly address the questions of my previous post that were related to your statements. Thanks.
thybigballs 3 months ago
@Janusha: The GTR gets no credibility over the Viper just because it is a 3.8 liter engine. That 3.8 liter engine is boosted with POWER ADDERS, where as the Viper is all natural.
V8Supercar1 2 months ago
@thybigballs
You think its fair to compare a 8,4 litre SRT-10 to a 3,8 litre 4 door, 4 wheel drive high tech car?
Is that how far american cars have fallen from grace... They need over TWICE as big engine to be competitive ?
Janusha 4 weeks ago
Comment removed
thybigballs 4 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Janusha Sigh, how many times do you need to be told that the Viper concept is based on being a roadster. Do you not know what a roadster is? Again, it's a big engine with two seats, and not much else, There are no turbo chargers, bells or whistles, or bling-bling. It doesn't "need" anything. The 3.8 needs the forced induction to keep up. Being a self proclaimed expert, you should have known all this. Also, what should Viper ACR mean to me exactly? I don't understand. Hey... wheres ur proof?
thybigballs 4 weeks ago
@thybigballs
Wow it took you only a few hours to get flagged for spam.
Ofcourse I know the god damn Vipers history and its low development budget. But because its american, obviously its glorified and hailed to the skies and fanboys make up feel-good stories like its engine was designed by Lamborghini and other silly myths. Then they make it into a racecar for its final season to send it off with hero status. Today nobody remembers its history of being a budget burnout machine.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
@Janusha Well, if you remember its history and roadster concept, why the confusion of the engine size? Are you running out of senseless crap to complain about? Btw, hows that evidence from Porsche coming along that American cars, and in particular the Viper, somehow cheated at the Ring? Around April you will see the new badass Viper make an appearance that will be yet more powerful. You will really dislike this one.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@thybigballs
I really dont care much for Vipers... Nor do I give a shit which is faster. A Porsche, Nissan or god damn Corvettes. I dont talk about single models as much as I address the ridiculous claims, wild myths and bold lies that surrounds these things. Only through bucketloads of patriotism and nurburgring myths, does this thing ever become competitive in any sense of the word. Its fine to produce budget burnout machines aslong as they are honest about being budget burnout machines.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
As for the NEXT Viper.. yeah.. its always the same talk out of you guys. Always the next big thing that will kill, smoke, rape, destroy... As if there really was a war out there for dominance in the world of cars... Because nobody can refute the next big tihng that doesnt exist yet. What Viper and Corvette have announced is that they are approaching their race crews to diminish the distinction between racecar and roadcar. So will they be quick. Absolutley... But supercars? Hell no.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
@Janusha If you don't think there's a bit of competition between auto makers than you are either being disingenuous or ignorant. I'll let you decide which one it is. And many manufacturers have blurred the line between a sport car and a racer. There's nothing new about that, and you know it, so your point is moot. Again, you are simply mad cuz the Viper(and others) can embarrass your Porsche every now and then...and sometimes cost much, much less. You are just like the GTR fan boys...angry.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@Janusha You do care about speed judging by all your complaining about it so dont flip flop. I have been trying to get you to state the bold lies you keep mentioning, but you refuse to come up with any! The Viper has been very successful in competition, so it does not need any myth making. It is what it is. And who has denied or been dishonest about it being a relatively cheap supercar? Are you mad bro cuz this budget car can spank cars three times more expensive and yet its so basic?
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@thybigballs
Again I dont give a shit what you think is faster. A truck derived 8,4 litre Viper or a 3,8 litre Porsche. Its always a numbers game with you guys. Did you ever consider this... If US cars were anything like your american hype tells us. Why arent they international success stories? Corvettes are down to 1100-1400 cars a month in USA and sell NO cars abroad and Vipers died because nobody actually bought them regardless of bullshit claims at the Ring. Its this RIDICULOUS hype that-
Janusha 3 weeks ago
-Im talking about. Ofcourse there is rivalry but especially the Corvettes are pulled out to compare to every god damn car out of Europe. 1.8 litre Lotus, great little racer OOH BUT CORVETTE SMOKES IT!! The BMW M3 amazing sport cupe OOH BUT CORVETTES KILL IT. As if every car is a failure if they dont have a huge V8 with 640 hp. Now as always, its brute force compensating for any hint of modern tech, build quality and technology. And is it really ok to have ONE internationally competitive vehicle?
Janusha 3 weeks ago
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thybigballs 3 weeks ago
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@Janusha The Viper and Vette aren't the best of everything but they can hang with the big boys pretty well. It is YOU that is the problem. You have to come up with petty crap and LIES because you dislike anything foreign such as American or Asian cars. You are just a pasty white angry mother fucker, and you make me and many others LOL. You don't care about speed now? Is it because you have no choice thru your lies? What the fuck are you doing on these vids then? Just talking economics? GTFO!
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@Janusha Then why the fuck are you on so many damn racing vids then? Perhaps you need to go back and read some of the bullshit you wrote here as well as other vids. Nobody gives a fuck about sales, how a car sells, how many sells, what marketing they do, a countries economy, etc, etc. The facts are you have been shown to be a liar about performances of cars so all you can do is bring in irrelevant subjects. Btw, where the fuck is the evidence anyone cheats, you lying sack of shit?
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@thybigballs
Yeah yeah yeah always the same talk out of you guys... America is best at everything and anyone that presents some reality, are anti american and wrong. Have you forgotten that it all went bankrupt? I didnt do that. Im also not the one that markes your messages as spam. Perhaps your patriotism induced image of things differ somewhat from actual reality. Therefore you arent willing to accept it. Even disregarding the official sales numbers that shows nobody ACTUALLY buys these cars.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
Dont confuse racing with roadcars. They have budgets and rules in racing put in place exactly to make cars equal. Racecars have done virtually the same since the 80s. Forexample Porsche did 6 minute runs in the 80s at the Nurburgring.
Who cheats? Here is the Cadillac at the Ring. Are you going to tell me now that a full rollcage, stripped out insides, Sparco Evo2 racing interior and twice as fat barely legal, semi slick Sport Pilot Cup LeMans racing tyres are showroom stock?
Janusha 3 weeks ago
w ww.cadillacfaq.co m/gi/images/09v/nurburg-2.jpg
And here is the Corvette.
ww w.zercustoms.co m/photos/Corvette-ZR1-Nurburgring-Photos/Corvette-ZR1-Nurburgring-Photos-2.jpg.ht ml
Same stripped out racing interior, same roll cage, same Sport Pilot tyres that they use in LeMans racing. And those are just the visible mods. A rollcage requires a full rebuild of the car which allows for alot more mods. Such as race suspension at the very least. A full race crew doesnt come along to sit and watch.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
@Janusha Again are you implying that Chevy ran a Vette with a roll cage and racing seats then claimed it was a stock car in those pictures? You really need to stop with making shit up. And quit hating anything not European while playing the victim when called out on it. It's pathetic. And guess what, the Pilots are an available option from the dealer (listen to the first 25 seconds of this video): /watch?v=wheEOSdDi9w
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@thybigballs
Didnt you see the pictures I showed you? Did your patriotism prevent you from seeing the rollcages and racing interiors ?
Have I ever said the Corvette is shit? Im just amazed here... You guys love to tell everybody how much cheaper a Corvette is... But you wont accept the fact that this means its cheaply built out of cheaper materials and this means it DOESNT have the latest tech, capabilities or build quality. you cant both be CHEAP and BEST these words are contradictions.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
And yes... They arent hiding the fact that they use barely legal semi slick race tyres. Which incidentally is the ONLY new thing on the new 2012 Corvette. Its the oldest trick in the book to put race tyres in the equipment list and thereby claiming its "stock" This heavy reliance on bullshit is why Corvettes and US cars in general dont sell outside USA. Anyone can use race tyres. But its just misleading the customer.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
@Janusha And? Why is Porsche allowed to change anything on their cars year to year, but if anyone else upgrades or modifies it is wrong or somehow cheating? Are you serious? Is it impossible to opt for stickies on any Porsche or other European sports car? Who was one of the first to show off the Pilots? Why aren't you crying about that? Boy, talk about closed minded patriotism...and for another countries too! Where is the cheating evidence, liar?
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@Janusha Are you sure the tires are the "ONLY" new thing on the 2012 Vette? And even if it was(which it isn't), so what? Porsche doesn't reinvent a model every year now do they? You really don't have anything substantial to gripe about do you? Don't forget you hate asian cars as well.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@Janusha Yes I looked at the pics. And did you not read where I asked you how this implied there was cheating? You are the only person in the world who makes this claim. It was not an attempt at running a stock car. Is this not obvious to you? Where is the cheating??????? You have also lied with the assertion that Porsche is catching or investigating cheating as well (besides supposedly the GTR). You totally made that shit up. And for the love of god, quit with the economics lessons.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@thybigballs
No... They werent cheating. because there is no "rulebook" at the Ring. There is no official time taking, no nothing. Its all self reported. Its like having a worlds strongest man competition by having people mail in their own results. Anyone is free to post whatever lap time they choose. But this is misleading the public aslong as they CLAIM to run bonestock showroom floor cars. I believe I said. Porsche laughed at their wild claims. This includes Nissans claims aswell as american.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
@Janusha Which American cars did Porsche have a problem with? Lets recap: You claim that Porsche thinks that the Viper and Vette cheated at the Ring with their stock vehicles. You keep dancing around providing the evidence for this with talk of economics, supposed sale gimmicks, track rental time, and patriotism. I only want to hear about the actual evidence. Nothing more.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
Im not crying or caring what Porsche does at the Ring because they have had permanent test facilities at the Ring for over 50 years. Surely they can do as they please on their own home track. This is what makes it so hillarious. When Corvette, Viper, hell even Cadillac show up and ALL claim woorld records after renting the track for a god damn weekend. At what point does it ever get embarrasing?
Porsches business model aswell as their cars are infinitly more modern. They have over 25 models.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
Ranging from entry level 3 litre sportscars to GT3 RS, 918 supercars and up to 1200 hp 9FF. OBVIOUSLY they have new cars each year.
European motor press is much more professional and bullshit gets you nowhere here. While in america its all about waving those flags and BELIEVING in yourselves. Its FAITH and belief vs facts and reality. Which is why all these discussions end up in hate and trash talk. Its like Im trying to take away your religion. There is no "benchmarking" going on at the Ring.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
@Janusha They OBVIOUSLY don't make a model for just one year then do nothing to it the next.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@Janusha And Porsche's best stock car time at their own "home track for 50 years" was smoked badly by the Viper. In other words, Porsche has been punked by Viper and a few others. Until this changes, you shouldn't brag about Porsche's time at the track as an argument point. I'm just saying.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@thybigballs
For fucks sake.. The Viper ACR goes like a racecar because its a thinly disguised racecar with numberplates. Its not magic! As a Racecar... Ferrari did 7 minute laps in the 70s. Niki Lauda is the ONLY person to have done the entire track in 7 minutes. Not just the northschleife but the whole track. Porsche did 6 minute laps in the early 80s. If supercars were about speeds, they could just stick numberplates on 80s racecars. Speed is nothing new. You people just dont understand this.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
@Janusha "The Viper ACR goes like a racecar because its a thinly disguised racecar with numberplates. Its not magic!"==Lets ignore every other sports car manufacturer with their "thinly disguised race cars". So what? Can't your Porsche do something about that with all their technologies? After all, the Viper is as technology free as a modern sports car can get. I thought technology was an argument point for you? The only fancy thing it has is an engine and ABS and weighs more than any Porsche.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@thybigballs
Are you telling me now that Porsche dont offer cars that can beat a Viper?
Oh my.. What are you talking about. Porsches business model aswell as their cars is INFINITELY more modern than Viper. Porsche offers cars from entrylevel sportscars to supercars, track cars and insane 1200 hp 9ff. They sell 120 000 cars a year while Vipers died when they were down to 200 sales a year. What the FUCK are you talking about you complete idiot.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
@Janusha Re-read what I said. Also, I like how you are comparing Porsches total sales of all their cars to just one model of Dodge. If you want to go talk total cars sold you might want to rethink your statement. And a 2010 Porsche is as modern as a 2010 Viper. Either way, all of this means nothing to anyone but you.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@thybigballs
Yes you see this is what you guys fail to understand. A 2010 Porsche has active aero, venturichannels, Paddleshift, dualclutch, millisecond gearing, Kinetic energy recovery systems The list goes on and on. While a 2010 Viper has none of that and an engine lifted out of a truck in the late 90s. Im not the one comparing american musclecars to European supercars, sportscars, GT cars. Im the one saying these are in different leagues. While all of america gets hung up in whats "faster"
Janusha 3 weeks ago
While in the real world, Porsche, Lambo, ferrari all started doing 200 mph in the 80s and dont go any faster today because top speeds beyond that are useless in reality. You think 7 minutes around the Nurburgring sounds great and validates US cars as "competitive" and best in the world. While Ferrari ran 7 minute laps 40 years ago. Porsche did 6 minute laps 30 years ago. In 1983. So if speed on its own was the goal here... We could just do like americans. Stick numberplates on old racecar tech.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
@Janusha Who said anything about US cars being the "best in the world". Don't project. Perhaps, it is you who thinks that. Give me the stock street Porsche that did a 6 minute lap 30 years ago on the full track. Same with the Ferrari. I wanna see an apples to apples comparision for myself. Nobody cares what speed YOU think is useless. Quit projecting words into the mouths of the rest of us.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
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thybigballs 3 weeks ago
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thybigballs 3 weeks ago
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@Janusha I think paddle shifters are kinda gay. The dual clutch and .01 second gear changes goes with it...also lame to me. "While all of america gets hung up in whats faster". Sure, whatever, and? Complete nonsense and irrelevant to anything. Your trying to find anything and everything to whine about. Face it, you just love to hate. We can do supercars too, not just muscle
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@Janusha American supercars: /watch?v=lAJbmPtO4YY ... and...
/watch?v=EdWD_sMittk
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
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thybigballs 3 weeks ago
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@Janusha Did Cadillac claim it was a stock car of fthe showroom floor or were they trying to see what it could do stripped down? In other words, were they attempting to pull a fast one on everyone? Does Porsche ever run their cars stripped down and having rollcages? Who also used the Pilots? Porsche perhaps? Why arent manufactures crying out about it? You need to show that Cadillac cheated by making dubious performance claims about the car.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@thybigballs
Yes Cadillac and every god damn flagwaving fool claimed showroom stock. So did you until I proved it wrong. Corvette too. Knowing they would get away with it because people like me, people that look shit up and question marketing hype, are rare in the US. No ameircan will EVER question any "fact" that puts US cars above its competition regardless of how unrealistic the claims are. Because in america.. When things look bad, you look for heroes and sprinkle them with patriotism.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
As for your list of "ameircan supercars" Ill get to it when Im back from work.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
@Janusha And you forgot about the info for the stock 6 minute Ring time for Porsche and Ferrari in showroom condition. Yet another lie?
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@Janusha If i was a Porsche fan I would be embarrassed of the Vipers 7:12 time at the Ring. For Christ sakes, the Porsche has all those fancy technologies and the Viper is so plain it aint funny. Whats a popular way of saying "bitch slapped" in your country? How about "Viper pulled Porsche's punk card"? Hell, you should stick with arguing with GTR fanboys because thats your immediate competition. The Viper is too far away in the front for you to worry about. I can see why you dislike the Ring.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@Janusha Porsche's best time is 7:18 with the GT2. And this is the most powerful stock car produced to date by them. Thats still nearly a quarter mile behind a Viper's lap time. Can you imagine how many times this Porsche would be lapped in a 24 hr race? And they used the Pilot Sport cup tires as well! The Viper on the other hand was LESS than 1 second slower than the Gumpert Apollo Sport! Not bad for a plain jane car with zero technologies helping it. Porsche is pawned by Viper at the Ring.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@Janusha However, this time of 7:18 by the Porsche GT2 was performed on the shorter Nurburgring course, which is 232 meters shorter and Porsche is unwilling to show video proof! Now, if all this is true, who is the cheater now? Did Porsche pull a fast one on everyone at their own home track (that has been there for 50 years as you say)?
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@Janusha Porsche even had the N2 Pilot Sport tires made just for this car. The entire purpose of this Porsche GT2 RS was to beat the GTR by a lot. And they even boasted about it doing so. Too bad Porsche did it on a track that was about 8 tenth of a mile shorter. And to think Porsche accused Nissan of cheating! I thought you said Porsche doesnt care about Ring times??? Bahahaha! Porsche and you should be ashamed.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@Janusha Show me the evidence that every "god damn flagwaving fool claimed showroom stock". And where is your assertion that Porsche made cheating accusations? Are you afraid to address your lie? Here's a fact: Porsche is owned by countries outside of your Europe. And they did it in good faith. When things look bad, you look for heroes and create lies then sprinkle them with patriotism.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@thybigballs
Showroom stock my arse. Corvette, Viper, Cadillacs werent stock. They were raced up, tweaked to hell, running racecar wheels and flew over full factory backed racecrews from USA. None of this is MY opinion. All of this is available info. My point with quoting Ferraris 7 minute laps and Porsches 6 minute laps were to illustrate that racecars today do the same as racecars in teh 70-80s. Not much has changed. Car companies try to make the BEST cars, speed on its own is nothing new.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
If speed was all that mattered, we could just smack numberplates on 80s racecar tech which is essentially what Corvettes and Vipers are.
Two things are amazing... That you pull out the same damn 2 vehicles in response to every single of the 100 sportscars, GT cars, hypercars, supercars out of Europe. As if Porsche somehow tried to have 640 hp and failed? Idiots.. Porsche offers cars from entry level sportscar to 1200 hp 9FF.
Secondly we have had the Ring now for nearly 100 years.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
-And now you american assholes come along, rent the track for a weekend and ALL claim ridiculous fucking records? Here you are trying to teach ME shit about the Ring? Is there no end to your arrogance? What records did they claim exactly... Fastest cars? Not by a mile.
And... Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo, Koenigsegg... NONE of the big names use the Ring for any kind of "benchmarking" of any sorts. This shit doesnt happen outside your X-box. So who the hell did these jokers actually claim to "beat" ?
Janusha 3 weeks ago
@Janusha Thats right us "American assholes" came along and rented your own damn track and proceeded to lay a big smackdown on your candy asses. We knocked your pasty white asses off of your high horses, and showed you what a real mans car can do. To make matters worse, we used a car that had your dreadful truck engine and body work that came from some friggen canoes! Porsche (and you) should be be completely embarrassed, especially with the cheating. Fucking Pathetic!!!
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@Janusha I have asked over and over that you show me where Viper cheated! It was your Porsche GT2 RS that had a roll cage. Not only that but they also boasted about their time of 7:18. What they didn't mention was they used a shorter version of the Ring that was about eight tenth of a mile shorter than everyone elses run. How fucking cheesy is that. And yes the ACR-X was a mere 5 secs or so behind Ferrari's 599. Porsche blows big dicks and are scumbag cheaters. It's all about the money for them!
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@Janusha Lexus should be making another run soon with their LF-A 7:11. No doubt this is in reference to the beating the Vipers time. It has new wings in the front and rear and an extra 30 HP. Yet more asskicking for those cheating fucks at Porsche. Even with a cage, specially made tires, and shorter track, they still aren't shit!!! As you say about America, it's marketing hype and patriotism. Your position is as good as dead. The cheating bullshit has flown back into your face. Bahahahah!
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@thybigballs
Yeah... Nissan, The americans and now Lexus... The Japs have no racing heritage that we can relate to in Europe so they go to the ring. Knowing how much it means to you americans. But who else does this ? Porsche has had permanent TEST facilities at the Ring for over 50 years. Surely they can do as they fucking please in their own backyard. That doesnt mean the Ring is THE benchmark for all cars. ONLY you americans believe this and infact, created this myth.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
The Porsche GT2 RS is a fucking track car. There are other race ready Porsches too. That doesnt mean they NEED to beat a Viper with over twice the size engine, otherwise its a failure. You guys rely on big engines, brute force. While supercars are about finesse, quality, tech and style. Which americans dont do because it makes cars expensive. Shorter track... hahaha you dont know the first thing. Its called Bridge to Gantry and Im not in the mood to school you on it.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
Its amazing to me... When you guys talk about "beating" Ferraris, Lambos, Lotus, Porsches.. You see a couple of models but you dont understand that these are built for customers to actually live with. When they go all out, you get stuff like 1200 hp Porsche 9FF. You get Lotus T125, Ferrari 599FXX, Koenigsegg Agera R, Zonda R, Bugatti SS, fuck me the list goes on and on. The industry here is alive and competitive whereas youre still going on about 2 cars of which 1 is bankrupt. Get real dude.
Janusha 3 weeks ago
@Janusha As you can tell from the video links i gave you, Europe isnt the only place to get exotic supercars from. As a matter of fact, the Dagger GT should be going into production this year. It is a 2700 HP monster with a calculated 1/4 mile of 6.6 seconds@ 205 mph and less than 1.2 seconds for the zero-to-sixty record. And it is one sexy mofo to boot. Get off your high horse, nobody is impressed. What supercars does YOUR country produce?
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@Janusha Yep, the Porsche GT2 RS is a track car(with your hated roll bars, special tires) and it still cheated to even beat the GTR...which oddly enough Porsches themselves accused of doing the very same thing. It doesn't get anymore sorry that that. Porsche has to lie to sell you its cars. It's all about the hype, the European dream. A Porsche in every pot. It is patriotism (of another country...strange!) that keeps your faith towards them. See how it works on you too? Pasty ass fool.
thybigballs 3 weeks ago
@thybigballs
ok... your list of "supercars" I mean.. How lame does it get. Ronn Motors. The guy claims his car came to him from god. That it was devine intervention. Factory 5, a built-it-your-self kitcar. Also sold as GTMalan named after Alan. The guy that sells it. SSC Aero, based on a Lamborghini Diablo replica kit. A home welded steel tubular chassis with every single part picked out of other already existing cars and a huge engine. Rossion Q1, Falcon Mach7, What is all this crap?
Janusha 2 weeks ago
-Have you ever seen or heard of these? They will never happen. Dagger GT is a webpage with a 3d rendering begging for money to build the damn thing.
In true american tradition, they promise to not "waste" any money building any parts themselves. Instead they will pick every part out of other cars Do you see a pattern here? These are kit-cars, One-off concepts and wild dreams that will never happen. Saleen went bankrupt 7 years ago. The Raptor died with it. What are you talking about?
Janusha 2 weeks ago
You are pulling out cars that dont even actually exist in comparison to the finest vehicles out of Europe JUST so that you can look to the flag and feel superior just for one minute until I pick it apart and dismiss it as bullshit. Whats with you guys.
BELIEVING and having FAITH in yourselves doesnt change the facts. This is complete and utter amateur league compared to the over 100 currently available supercars, GT cars, hypercars, track cars and sportscars. Doesnt it ever get embarrassing ?
Janusha 2 weeks ago
@Janusha I'm sorry, but could you please list the supercars that YOUR country makes? I would love to see all of these Norwegian supercars. You aren't riding on the wave of other countries are ya? How about just regular cars? Oh wait, your country does have a company that manufactures dump trucks. You must be proud!
thybigballs 2 weeks ago
@thybigballs
Oh Im sorry... Is this a flagwaving competition now ?
The difference is.... And its not an insignificant difference... is that I dont... And MY country dont CLAIM to build supercars when we dont. So in that respect. We build as many supercars as you do. None at all.
The reason you guys fall so flat on your face in such discussions is that instead of appreciating that such things exsist, you NEED to make shit up inorder to feel superior. Mixing cars with pride is uniquely american.
Janusha 2 weeks ago
@Janusha How many regular car manufacturers does Norway have? I'm not talking about the ones that went bankrupt decades ago either. You are absolutely shoplifting the work of other countries and claiming it as yours. Norway has shit for automobile manufacturers! Nothing, nada, zip. The reason you fail is you have to steal credit. My family tree came from England, France, and Australia, but you don't see me claiming any of their shit. Call me when your country does something in the auto world.
thybigballs 2 weeks ago
@Janusha "Mixing cars with pride is uniquely american"===Yep, and mixing cars from other countries with pride, appears to be uniquely Norweigen.
thybigballs 2 weeks ago
@thybigballs
At what point have I ever tried to exalt myself over whatever car? Ive never said your Corvettes, your only internationally competitive car, is shit. It just gets ridiculous when you flagwaving fools eat too much corporate hype and start shouting BEST IN THE WOORLD in your eagerness to put everybody else down to make yourselves feel better. Regardless of topic. I dont talk about single models, I talk about the ridiculous claims, wild myths and bold lies that surround these things.
Janusha 2 weeks ago
Now... Every car company does extravagant marketing to get noticed. But this HEAVY reliance on complete bullshit is uniquely american. And isnt doing you any service. This is why american cars dont sell abroad. Here we got professional carshows on TV and magazines that would instantly rip any lie and hype to shreds. America needs to build DESIRABLE cars instead of search for ever cheaper third world shitholes to build them in. Today US cars are what you get when you cant afford the real thing.
Janusha 2 weeks ago
@Janusha You are fucking clueless. The biggest reason why American cars don't sell well where you live is for one simple reason: Fuel economy and cost of fuel. Plain and simple. You are not as smart as you think you are. Many Europeans love our cars, particularly older models and especially muscle cars, but they just don't want to spend their entire budget on fuel. In 2007 we had 2 models that got 40+ mpg. Europe had over 120. Your extravagant marketing theory is crap.
thybigballs 2 weeks ago
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thybigballs 2 weeks ago
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@Janusha And what the hell does Norway know about cars? They make ZERO of all the cars on this planet. Fucking zero. And for a country who's main GDP is oil, you have some of the highest fuel costs in the world. Oslo in Norway is the most expensive place in the world to top your fuel tank! How fucked up is that? THIS is why there are low numbers of American vehicles sold there. Countries all around your's builds cars. Nobody smart enough in Norway to build something besides dump trucks? WTF?
thybigballs 2 weeks ago
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@Janusha Remember your Yugo? No self respecting man here would be caught dead in one. For me to ride in a Yugo, the windows would have to be tinted super dark...like black spray paint dark! Even then I'd still worry about being seen in it. What do you call a Yugo with a flat tire? Totaled. What's included in every Yugo owner's manual? A bus schedule. What do you call a Yugo that breaks down after 100 miles? An overachiever. I heard that Yugo made a stationwagon...they called it the Wego. LOL!
thybigballs 2 weeks ago
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thybigballs 2 weeks ago
I want that gtr's motor for my 240 hell yeah hell yeah hell yeah
carrabanana 6 months ago
Who else think @Janusha needs to get a life? I mean really? Every American car video I go to, I see this loser talking out of his ass with the same ol' tune. Its like he holds some personal vendetta against american cars. Its sad really.
krocialblack 6 months ago
well try this not a old rt 10 do a 3 gen viper vs thr gtr then what u have is VIPER WINS
unknowsniper14 6 months ago
Lol, congratulations. I'd still rather have the viper. Classically beautiful styling, no annoying electronic gizmos to bother with, just you and the car. In the Viper YOU are the one driving, not the car. Although the instrument cluster in the GTR does look like immense fun, lol.
mj20042 7 months ago
@mj20042
No technology, handling, buildquality or styling to "bother with" just you and an oncoming tree.
Janusha 7 months ago
@Janusha No handling? lol. On an R/T 10 like this, sure, but not on a GTS or SRT-10. Those things are pretty damn good. They'll grip like mad, and they hang in there with any other car in its price range. And build quality? On the interior, maybe, but not where it counts. Any bit that you'll actually worry about, on a car like that, isn't going to be shoddily built. And styling? Do you need your eyes checked? Okay, I'll grant you, the R/T 10 isn't the best, but the hardtops are magnificent.
mj20042 7 months ago
@mj20042
Yeah yeah... When americans talk about handling. They talk about skidpads and slalom numbers as if they mean something. Why do you think only americans rely on skidpads ? Europeans... that can actually make sportscars... dont rely on skidpads. Why is that ? Could it be because its just a cheapass way to put a number on handling that actually dont tell you anythong about how a car really handles? They GRIP because they have tyres as fat as american asses. Thats not handling. Thats tyres.
Janusha 7 months ago
@Janusha Fair enough, but it's not as if those numbers mean nothing. I agree, an actual track (say, the Lotus-designed Top Gear test track) is the best way to find out how a car handles in an actual performance situation. However, skidpads and slalom numbers are a more standardized way of finding out a car's abilities. A skidpad IS really a cheap, largely useless test, but it does tell you how much raw grip a car has, which is important. (continued)
mj20042 7 months ago
@Janusha (continued) A slalom test is also a relatively cheap, chintzy test, but it does give you some useful information. It tells you how well the car changes direction, and how quickly. The faster you can manage through a slalom, the better the suspension is at coping with cornering. Again, it's not the be all and end all test, but it's not useless. There's a reason these tests are widely used.
mj20042 7 months ago
@mj20042
Oh.. so you know Lotus designed the Top Gear track. Not alot of people know that. The reason I call skidpads bullshit is because they go round and round in a circle until the tyres let go and measure the G at that point. But thats the TYRES you are measuring on THAT particular surface under THOSE conditions. Still. Its the TYRES and not the CAR performing those numbers. Skidpads tells you nothing of how the car behaves when you are actually going sideways.
Janusha 7 months ago
Slalom also is heavily reliant on conditions such as temperature, tyre pressure and such things. The heavy reliance of conditions makes these tests unreliable at best and when you leave it up to car manufacturers to come up with these numbers themselves, you can be damn sure they will create perfect conditions which will give misleading figures. Fact is.. Look at the cars that ACTUALLY handle. they dont have fat tyres. Instead they have tech and sophisticated chassis.
Janusha 7 months ago
@Janusha And you're wrong there. The cars that actually handle also have fat tires. Lamborghini Gallardo and Murcielago, not to mention every Lamborghini going back to the 80s, has fat tires (about as wide as a Viper's rear tires). Every Ferrari that actually handles well has fat tires. The only cars that don't have extra wide tires are the specialized small track cars like Caterhams, Ariel Atoms, and the skeleton-frame Lotuses like the R500 and the 2eleven, but that's because the cars are small
mj20042 7 months ago
@Janusha Well, in a sense, it is kind of the car getting those numbers, and yes it does tell you how the car performs going sideways. The test is pretty well standardized. Each company that does a (100 ft. diameter) skidpad test uses the same (dry) surface for every car, and I would THINK they do it in the same temperature, too. The reason it's the car is because each car has its own weight distribution and weight transfer characteristics (which has to do in part with the suspension).
mj20042 7 months ago
@mj20042
Yes in the wide selection of European supercars ofcourse you find all kinds. The Lamborghinis we had in the company whre I worked some years back had the widest tyres allowed on the road in England. For sakes of brand identity more than skidpads tho. You can have sophisticated handling AND fat tyres. Its still better than relying on fat tyres on its own. A "standard dry surface" can be many different things and unless every factory uses the same one and the same tyres, its bullshit.
Janusha 7 months ago
@Janusha Pretty sure a standard skidpad is just stright concrete. And I'm not saying that something like a 69 Charger would be the best handling car in the world if it had 400mm wide tires. I'm just saying, all the best cars in the world don't rely solely on a good chassis and suspension. They have wide tires as well, because think about it. If a Lotus Exige or a Lamborghini Countach had measly 100mm wide tires, not only would they never stop spinning the tires, they wouldn't handle worth shit.
mj20042 7 months ago
@Janusha anywho, I need to do something else for a while, so don't expect me to reply to your next comment any time soon.
mj20042 7 months ago
@mj20042
Some of the most insane cars ever made for racing were the 80s Group B rally WRC cars. They were like F1 cars with 4wd made for all kinds of surfaces. It was banned after 4 years for being too wild. Look at their tyres.
/watch?v=G1BkNmqi1MA&feature=fvsr
These insanely misleading Corvette and GT-R Nurburgring lap times forexample are mainly due to semi slick, barely legal, LeMans race ready tyres. Justified by putting them in the options list and thereby passing them off as "stock"
Janusha 7 months ago
@Janusha I didn't need to look at the video to know that they were relatively thin tires. Dirt and gravel tracks require entirely different types of traction than pavement. On a dirt and gravel track you want narrow tires that will cut through the loose top layer and dig in while cornering. Wide tires cause you to float on top and simply skid around, causing nothing but mayhem. And since the cars are AWD, they don't require the wide tires for takeoff, either.
mj20042 7 months ago
@mj20042
Im just saying grip isnt necessarily a result of fat tyres. Even tho that bracket is awd. You see the same in 2wd rallycars. The European car business is collectively spending alot of money these days trying to analyse grip and find ways to put a number on it. Skidpads and slalom is the american cheapass way just like everything in the american car business has always been about the cheapass way. Which is why were VERY sceptical to silly Nurburgring claims and big words from over there.
Janusha 7 months ago
@Janusha Grip is about 90% the tires, man. Suspension doesn't account for much. Yeah, a better suspension will keep the tires on the road more often and a little more solidly, but not to the extent you're implying. HANDLING is what is attributed to the chassis and suspension. Grip and handling are inter-dependent but they are not one and the same.
mj20042 7 months ago
@Janusha Oh, and you mentioned the Corvette and GT-R lap times were due to semi-slick tires. Well, the plain and simple truth is that since they ARE street-legal tires, there's nothing wrong with that. Honestly, if the tires are available and they're street-legal, wouldn't you put them on an ACR, a Porsche, a Lotus, or whatever track-day car you might one day own? Yeah, in the press releases that's playing a liiiittle dirty, but it's still technically fair game.
mj20042 7 months ago
@mj20042
Im not about to have a nerdy discussion on what handling is or isnt. Im just saying Europe is a few generations ahead on the whole sportscar thing. In america they only recently and very reluctantly started addressing interior quality, handling and styling because their cars havent sold outside USA for decades and were falling increasingly behind in america too... When the financial problems arrived, they just werent strong enough to survive because they were already in sharp decline.
Janusha 7 months ago
About these Nurburgring lap times and their questionable validity... Viper built a thinly disguised racecar for the job and Corvette are modding their cars and running with LeMans race tyres... Well. This heavy reliance on bullshit to promote their cars is another reason why they fail to sell abroad. What you get when you buy a Corvette is NOT a race ready 7 minute nurburgring monster regardless of the bullshit they feed you. Flying over modded cars and full racecrews to the Ring is bullshit.
Janusha 7 months ago
@Janusha *Dodge* built what you call a 'thinly disguised racecar'. Viper is a model name, not it's own brand. Anyway, isn't that pretty much what Ferrari, Lamborghini, Lotus, Westham, Caterham, etc. have been doing for the past decade? Honestly, they don't modify those cars before sending them over. They put on STREET LEGAL semi-slick tires and the necessary safety equipment. It's not as if they send them over with 800+ hp, racing slicks, and 500 lbs in weight reduction... Honestly...
mj20042 7 months ago
@Janusha You've been more than willing to have 'nerdy' discussions before. Like all too many Europeans, you seem to think your continent is the only place intelligent people live O.o. Just saying... I agree with the whole quality think, but the sports car thing? We've been not *too* far behind since the Viper came out. Since that car, all the major manufacturers have been fighting to get more power and better handling. The current Viper ACR, Corvette ZR1, and Ford GT show that.
mj20042 7 months ago
@mj20042
In USA cars start out as bland shit sprinkled with patriotism. If they catch on and become popular, they gradually, over the years, evolve into decent cars. Which is why only the VERY latest Vipers, Corvettes, Mustangs are any good at all.
The Viper... If you read up on its history, basically is a budget burnout machine. They picked a truck engine.. Not for its marvelous capabilities. More because it was cheap and had 10 cylinders. Strapped to a ladder frame. Its as advanced as a truck.
Janusha 7 months ago
I dont understand how you can justify american "sportscars" when there arent any. There are musclecars but if you look at the Camaro SS, its a redressed Australian Holden. The Challenger is a recycled Chrysler C300 which again is a 16 years old Mercedes. If you dig deeper, you will find a bunch of bronze coins and a helmet. The Mustangs are atleast not based on junk but they can only be compared to eachothers because when compared to Euro sportscars, they fail pretty hard.
Janusha 7 months ago
@Janusha I'm a fan of all performance cars no matter what country they're from but I have to say, that budget burnout machine with a truck engine strapped to a ladder frame successfully stomped ass on every other production car in its price range throughout the nineties. Nothing under $100,000 could beat it. 0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile, 1 mile, 600 ft slalom, lateral g. Ferrari, Porsche, BMW, Mercedes . . . all got spanked. Quality was definitely lacking but the performance was undeniably there.
xsboost25psi 7 months ago
@xsboost25psi
HP and power is a decission.. Not an achievement. As for its price.. why do you think they went and got themselves a cheapass engine out of a truck ?
America makes budget burnoutmachines. Nobody else does. As for other road capabilities, a Viper, with all its might and power, is no faster round a track than your average 1,8 litre Lotus or a middle of the range BMW. Stuff like a Caterham R500 would blow rings around it and costs less.
Janusha 7 months ago
@Janusha The cast iron V10 in the VM02 concept was being designed for a truck when they decided to use it for the viper concept. After the concept became a huge hit they re-engineered the motor in aluminum specifically for the viper. A cast iron variation of the motor later made it to the ram but it went into a viper before anything else. They used the "cheapass" engine bc spending lots of time money on R&D for a new engine when you have one you're already developing would be just plain dumb.
xsboost25psi 7 months ago
@Janusha The decision was to use an engine they' were already developing rather than doing something dumb like spend a lot of money when they didn't have to. Another decision was to generate a lot of power in a sportscar at low cost to stay within their budget. Their achievement was a sports car that went from a thought to the sales floor within 3 years and was still able to match or beat most cars in production, even the ones twice the cost.
xsboost25psi 7 months ago
@xsboost25psi
Yes. Spending money on research and development towards building quality has always been seen as "something dumb" in USA. Which is why there has never been a car that can even match BMW quality out of USA. Speed is the easy part. Racecars have done virtually the same speeds since the 60s. While European performance cars are about the latest tech, materials, art and styling, american performance is cheaply built to appeal to patriotism and nostalgia. 2 different worlds.
Janusha 7 months ago
@Janusha I agree definitely 2 different worlds but The viper motor has proven Itself to be reliable as long as it's properly maintained which is relatively inexpensive. It's a quality motor that they didn't have to spend a lot of time and money on. I admit the fit and finish of the viper is pretty bad and lacking on most American cars. I do wish they had spent a little more time and effort on that part. I can see this is going nowhere. We both have our own opinions. It's been a fun debate though
xsboost25psi 7 months ago
@xsboost25psi
The Vipers motor... Was not built out of flags and patriotism. It wasnt done by Lamborghini as the Viper Wikipedia and history books will tell you. The Mercedes AMG SLS is NOT based on the next generation Viper as 200 000 american webpages will tell you. its all a bunch of hype, wild claims and bullshit to compensate for its crude, unsophisticated budget quality. American performance cars always starts out as budget burnout machines and if they catch on, gradually evolve into-
Janusha 7 months ago
-decent cars. Just like the plastic Corvettes of old. The new Challenger is just a redressed Chrysler C300 which again is a recycled 16 years old Mercedes. Camaro SS is just a redone Australian Holden with some fake plastic air intakes and handling like a soviet shrimp vessel. Its amateur league compared to the real thing. When americans spend some cash and upgrade them, they turn to race tech and LeMans tyres. Instead of making actual supercars. Again... Its 2 different worlds.
Janusha 7 months ago
@Janusha i don't think any of these cars are "supercars" just regular sporty cars that do what they were built to do. and yes most of the time just like european brands american car companies incorporate racing parts and technology on their road cars. no car is perfect it doesn't mean you should bitch and whine that they aren't all 200,000 supercars.
ShartCannon 7 months ago
@ShartCannon
Im not on some singular quest do discredit US cars. They manage to do that perfectly well all on their own. For all I care, they can drive what they like over there. I dont have a stake in the matter either way. What I find hillarious is these illusions of grandeour fueled by an unshakable belief in their own superiority regardless of staggering evidence to the contrary. Their wild claims and hype. I mean... I dont even see an american built car a week when i travel in Europe.
Janusha 7 months ago
@Janusha Your overwhelming dislike for domestic cars absolutely astounds me. I don't know where to even start here. But then again, I don't think it would matter much. Petrol head except all forms of speed regardless of where it is from and how said speed is achieved. I fail to see the problem with coexisting.
iPROFITDON 7 months ago
@iPROFITDON
I became a computer games designer but studied social anthropology and marketing at University. Speciffically for the car business. My interests are in brand identity and social trends. Who buys what and why. I only came into this when I read up on the US car industry to find out how they were able to run it to the ground in such a spectacular manner. Only to find that the general US car business is funded on wild claims, patriotic hype and feel-good-about-america stories.
Janusha 7 months ago
I think youll find these discussions and hostility comes from this AMERICA VS THE WOOOORLD attitude so popular over there. There is no war for supremacy in the world of cars. There is no anti american hate campaign going on. The big3 in america spent decades linking their cars to the american dreeeam and all which is good about america so clearly today when USA is down to 1-2 internationally competitive vehicles, its a sore topic and any hint of criticism is met with OMG.. YOU HATE AMERICA !!
Janusha 7 months ago
@Janusha You'll find Domestic fans are not the only ones who will bow up at a statement like that. If you step into a video with a Porsche and start talking about how they only escaped bankruptcy because VW saved them, and even still is fighting, or to a Lamborghini video and talk about their bankruptcy history they will explode on you. USA is about building cars that the common people can afford, bargains, not cars to compete with the world. Though..do you know why the ZR1 came about?
iPROFITDON 7 months ago
@Janusha So you are not a petrol head in any way shape or form, you are just set out to try and inform everyone who has an affinity for American cars how much of a joke they are and how they are built upon lies and wild claims?
iPROFITDON 7 months ago
@iPROFITDON
Im into cars and have had extensive experience with many aspects. In my company we had Lambos, Ferraris, Lotuses and similar stuff. Done a bit of racing in more modest cars and have a father that collects old american muscle classics. Im just explaining that what I say isnt ment to discredit any brand in particular or the entire american continent as certain frantically flagwaving fools will have it. Nor am I the one that ran your entire car business to the ground.
Janusha 7 months ago
As for the ZR1s origins? not sure what you are aiming for... They got Lotus to pull Corvettes into the 20th century with the first ZR1. The current ZR1 is mostly their flagship. As traditionally with such things. ACR Viper, Corvette ZR1 and Cadillac CTS-V, they dont actually make any money on it. Its just there to be used in reviews, road tests to promote the brand. while the cars people actually buy are the much cheaper, less talented versions. And yes... its mostly about wild claims and hype.
Janusha 7 months ago
@Janusha So you are a car guy, but you don't seem to talk or think like one, or maybe I am missing something. Regardless, I hold any specific origin higher than another. I love absolutely brutal cars with gobs of power on the edge of usability, so domestics cater perfectly to those needs. But I'd be just as happy with any other car, or truck for that mater. No car business has been run into the ground, a bad economy is simply the main cause for the sudden down turn in sales.
iPROFITDON 7 months ago
@iPROFITDON
I dont care where the cars come from but it seems to me americans are generally far too concerned with waving those flags and having fait. Believing is more important than facts. The lack of actual motor press in USa and car shows on TV makes people confuse wild claims, myths and bold lies for facts. And defend these stories until death. Any hint of criticism is a declaration of war and they talk about SMOKE, KILL, RAPE as if there really is some kind of war going on out there.
Janusha 7 months ago
The big3 in USA soon realised they could sell yesteryears cars again and again by simply sprinkling them with patriotism and marketing them by talking about american dreeeams. Instead of following the latest tech, buildquality or styling. For decades they got away with shameless profiteering and shoddy quality. Therefore US cars hadnt sold outside america for decades. So when the financial crisis hit and even americans stopped buying american, it all came crashing down.
Janusha 7 months ago
Just look at the enormous american motorcycle market. Completely dominated by Ducati, Yamaha, Suzuki, KTM, Honda and so on. All making hyper modern, competitive superbikes. While america makes Harley. Patriotism on wheels with saddlebags. Completely void of any modern tech, quality, styling or road capabilities. It works for Harley. They found their niche. But this is the current state of US cars compared to forreign brands. But still people are more concerned with waving flags and patriotism.
Janusha 7 months ago
@Janusha You cannot use Harley who makes nothing but fat cruiser bikes against brands that specialize in nothing but half and full super bikes as an example of comparing the US cars to foreign brands, well actually, if you like at it as their niche you can. I'll say again, the mass of the american market is bargain driven, more for less for he common people. Look at the type of cars driven in the UK and then in America.
iPROFITDON 7 months ago
@Janusha I'll also say again, if you talk the same way about imports, you will be fronted with the same reaction. That is being "loyal" to the makers you love. I'm pretty sure everyone you turn to and start giving your same spill to them to try and make them understand how the whole industry is built off lies is not American. I personally am not from America. Car shows and press is are nothing more than opinions. What wild claims and myths are you talking about?
iPROFITDON 7 months ago
@Janusha Care to explain some of the wild claims and myths you speak of? I know of a couple that is pure confusion. Once again, criticizing anyone's manufacturer will be met in the same light. I don't find domestic fans as brutally stubborn as say the Mpower boys. Why do you keep saying Americans? All fans of domestic cars are not American, I am not from America.
iPROFITDON 7 months ago 4
@iPROFITDON
The link to Harley is that thats where US cars are at the moment. Completely surpassed in every single way by its competition by shouting big words instead of following the latest tech and development. Infact if it werent for the steady sales of pickup trucks the US car business would have collapsed already decades ago. Harleys still sell due to nostalgia and patriotism but when that was no longer enough to sell US cars, it all went bankrupt. They hadnt sold outside USA for 25 years.
Janusha 6 months ago
Being "loyal" and buying american is what has kept the US car business alive for so long. The big3 soon realised they could resell yesteryears tech again and again by linking their cars to the american dreeeeam and all which is good about america. The amateurish US motorpress is full of feel-good-about-america stories and concentrate on telling people what they want to hear instead of facts. Myths and wild claims such as Lamborghini built the Vipers engine, Mercedes AMG SLS is really the-
Janusha 6 months ago
-next generation Viper stolen from bankrupt Chrysler. A very popular myth right now. And the most popular one... The ridiculously overhyped and faked american Nurburgring laps set by fully factory backed racecrews and heavily modified cars. Thrown around as conclusive evidence of an entirely fictional US car superiority. Most car "facts" in USA turn out to be lies or hype. Their wild mpg claims, their skidpads and slalom, I could go on all day really.
Janusha 6 months ago
@Janusha like the Z06, of course you can buy a car for that price that will be built to a much higher quality standard. But it will not run 10s stock as well as crack 200mph while hitting the track as hard as it does. As far as these Myths. Lamborghini helped Chrysler make the Vipers engine more supercar worthy, they didn't build the engine. The next gen Viper myth can be attested to Benz cladding their test mule in Viper body panels. That is a world wide myth that even Autocar-
iPROFITDON 6 months ago
@Janusha -bought into as well as a number of other non American automotive publishers. Faked Nurburgring lap times? I've never heard of such a thing, the two Vettes and ACR that were run were bone stock, the CTS-V I'm not so sure of, but I have nothing to dispute that and neither do you. Claims that they were not stock is acceptable given the wild speculation that Domestic cars cannot turn. MPG claims, skipads and slalom? Now you are just getting into trying to downplay their performance
iPROFITDON 6 months ago
@Janusha Loyal customers is what keeps all business alive, not just US cars, or cars in general. The big3 reselling yesteryears tech? Like Lambo releasing a new model with nothing done but ripping the front shafts out or dipping the whole car in black and calling it a new name? The new Aventador is the first thing new in some time. You could link that to the Big3s mentality, more for less. Actually, that seems to be the US way when it comes to cars. -
iPROFITDON 6 months ago
@Janusha That's not quite true, Harley to my knowledge never has been and never was in competition with any Japanese bike in any way. They built the V-rod as a sporty Harley but even that was never aimed at any one. Using them as an example of being surpassed in technological standards makes me believe you don't understand the point of a Harley at all. Unless I am missing something.
iPROFITDON 6 months ago
@iPROFITDON
Hahaha yes. Thats part of the myth. That people claim to have seen it with Viper body panels. Ridiculous claim. There are even pictures. The increasingly un-serious american motor press will always have such stories to tell. And people believe them. Without checking any facts. I saw when that myth started and because Motortrend spread it, everybody jumped on it and now its even quoted on Vipers wikipedia. Just like they will tell you Lamborghini designed their engine. Alll bullshit.
Janusha 6 months ago
Also.. the Harley Vrod. What about it? Sure its more technical than your average Harley.. But its not a superbike competitor. And it uses a Porsche engine. Loyal customers is all good... But the loyalty to US cars comes out of nostalgia and patriotism alone. Not because of their history of making excellent cars or motorcycles. Quality has NEVER been the focus in USA as much as cater-for-all vehicles and shameless profiteering.
Janusha 6 months ago
The reason I mentioned Harley is that they come from a time when ALL motorcycles were basic and crude. But when everybody else was competing and making new tech and road capabilities. Ending in todays superbikes that totally dominate the market, Harley... and american cars instead shout about patriotism and the american dreeeeam instead of modernising. Therefore get left behind. Like NASCAR.. enormous front mounted pushrod monstrosities whos technology stagnated in the 70s.
Janusha 6 months ago
Finally.. about the Nurburgring laps. Porsche has had permanent test facilities at the Ring for 50 years and suddenly, along comes Corvette, Viper, hell even Cadillac and ALL claim woooorld records after renting the track for a weekend ? You need to inject Kennedy grade patriotism directly into your eyeballs to believe that hype without question. I dont doubt the times. Not even americans can fake time. But the cars were ultra modified and run with fully factory backed race crews. Hype and lies.
Janusha 6 months ago
-These laps were done right in the middle of US cars collective bankruptcies to sell some cars in Europe and recieve hero status back home. This idea that the Ring is some international "benchmark" is largely an american myth. Sure many companies use it as a test track. But you dont see Ferrari, Lambo, Aston, Maserati, Koenigsegg, Bugatti, any of the big names running factory backed benchmarking at the Ring. So who are they actually beating? Its just a pissing contest between Nissan and GM.
Janusha 6 months ago
@Janusha An American myth? It is one of the most difficult courses in the world, and just about every high performance car has run there at one time or another. Using that course as a benchmark is not an American myth because YOU don't see it as so. Aston and Maserati have don't have anything that would out run a Z06(z07) at the track let along a ZR1 and GTR, Neither does Lambo before the Aventador. Koenigsegg's focus is top speed numbers after Bugatti.
iPROFITDON 6 months ago
@Janusha Oh.. and besides for the Cadillic looking like it has lowered suspension because it was coming off a hill.. and you're apparent shock tells you the latest domestic cars to hit the ring were "ultra modified?"
iPROFITDON 6 months ago
@Janusha If the idea of the Ring being an american benchmark myth was true, why do you suppose Porsche got so upset at Nissan's supposed GTR time that they bought a GTR from the USA, and shipped it over to do the run for themselves only to publically claim Nissan cheated? Why would Porsche bother? Sounds like Porsche takes the Ring benchmark seriously... as well as many others. There's no myth making going on here. I have a hunch why you made such a statement.
thybigballs 3 months ago
@thybigballs
The Ring has long been used as a test track for mainly German cars since it was closed down for racing. Porsche has had permanent test facilities at the Ring for over 50 years. Dont you think they can do as they goddamn please in their own backyard? They bought a US-specc GT-R. That doesnt mean they shipped it from USA. Porsches idea was to publically expose Nissan and the Americans as frauds feeding off the media circus generated by these misleading lap times.
Janusha 3 months ago
@Janusha Porsche doesn't own the Ring so ANYONE can use the track. Their longivity at the track is irrelevent. Sounds like you now acknowledge the Ring is indeed used as a benchmark for manufacturers....just like they do. And what American frauds are you talking about that Porsche has a gripe with? Do tell. Btw, your tire grip analogy was laughable. There are many factors that are involved in a car's turning abiities besides just tires. You are full of piss and vinegar, huh?
thybigballs 3 months ago