alcoholics narcotics anonymous

[Hammersley1967]

@teg598

Dirty little newbies...

They LOVE it...

Another 4th and 5th anyone?

[recoverygirl12]

check out my video journals about what im going through in my process to recovery!!! please be nice

[AAFellowship]

He left you no excuses.

Take a good look at yourself, getting it all out.

[Hammersley1967]

@AAFellowship

HUGE ERECT PENISES!!!

[simplicity135]

Close to the ultimate in self-absorption, lmao.

[imagineart]

The 8th step uses a list made from your inventory...as does the 9th. You don't need to keep your 4th...and there is something oh so liberating about burning up the old life and throwing it's ashes away. As to success rates of any type of recovery...it's all so subjective...I failed a zillion times. But when I was ready to do what it took I had a 100% success rate. I'm in 12 step...but if watching the Yankees keeps you clean & sober...then you should watch them all the damn time!

[Hammersley1967]

Why did you burn your 4th step?

You needed it for your 8th and 9th step...

Wasn't it "searching and fearless"?

[mountainape14]

If you work the steps it works....not for everyone...but more than 5%....You're fooling yourself man...self abuse?.....deception?...all the results of drug abuse don't you think? The success rate in the program is much higher than individuals trying to quit on their own...some people are so hoodwinked they WON'T recover...all I can do for you is pray

[Hammersley1967]

"The success rate in the program is much higher than individuals trying to quit on their own"

No its not.

Not even close...

Check the research.

Success rate of the program? 5%...

"Quitting on your own" - given enough time? 50% - 80% (depending on the study. ALL studies show > 50%)...

[mountainape14]

Hey man...yeah..I've done research since making that comment...I'll admit I'm wrong...5% for NA and almost 20% for AA...this is where I'm at odds with the program > they call for a 'surrender'...well, I'm not surrendering ..this is when I need my inner strength. I'm getting what I need from the program (other peoples experience and trying to help others) and leaving the rest there...you're absolutely right and I appreciate your comments...thank you

[Hammersley1967]

Well said...

[Hammersley1967]

[i]

The 50% - 80% that I referring to "spontaneous remission" - otherwise known as "natural remission"...

That is, 50% - 80% "naturally" (i.e. EVENTUALLY given enough time) taper off and terminate problematic use and/or use altogether.

Research? Theres an absolute shit-load. Indeed, its the most robust finding in this area of study. I would say that its the best kept (yet most open) secret in the field...

Here are just a few tasters of this vast field of (peer reviewed) knowledge for ya!

[Hammersley1967]

[ii]

Robb Stall & Patrick Biernacki (1986) "Spontaneous Remission from the Problematic Use of Substances: An Inductive Model Derived from a Comparative Analysis of the Alcohol, Opiate, Tobacco, and Food/Obesity Literatures" in Substance Use & Misuse, 1532-2491, Volume 21, Issue 1, pp 1-23.

Rumpf, H.-J.; Hapke, U.; Dawedeit, A.; Meyer, C. & John, U. (1998) "Triggering and maintenance factors of remitting from alcohol dependence without formal help" in European Addiction Research, 4, 209-210.

[Hammersley1967]

[iii]

Sobell, L. C.; Cunningham, J. A. & Sobell, M. B. (1996) "Recovery from Alcohol Problems with and without Treatment: Prevalence in Two Population Surveys", in American Journal of Public Health, vol 7, pp 966-972.

Saunders WM & Kershaw PW (1979) "Spontaneous remission from alcoholism-a community study", in British Journal of Addiction, Blackwell Publishing Ltd.

[Hammersley1967]

[a]

"Hammersley1967, that is all very interesting 'research' - to you, that is.

To alcoholics, it is Comedy Central"

Oh! Are you familiar with this peer reviewed, conclusive body of research are you?

Sounds like, after giving it a thorough review, you've found these papers lacking in some way...

Tell me, what is it, in your "EXPERT" opinion, that you find "comical"?

The utterance of a truly ignorant and thoroughly indoctrinated soul.

You REALLY dont know what you dont know Weiny.

Sad...

[Hammersley1967]

[b]

Here's a tip Weiny:

Stop embarrassing yourself and desist making pretenses at having ANY knowledge the scientific body of research. Its blatantly obvious that you dont have the vaguest idea.

Stick to your Big Book with its religious doctrine in the front and its ludicrous cult indoctrinated anecdotes in the back.

You'll burst a brain valve if you read and think too much...

I am genuinely amazed that your brain generates enough power to keep your fingers tapping on your keyboard...

[Hammersley1967]

(I)

"'Alcohol dependence and 'alcoholism' ain't the same thing."

"I know a hell of a lot more about alcoholism than your so called peer reviewed experts. These guys don't even know what an alcoholic is.

'alcohol dependence' give me a break!"

The above statements contend, in NO uncertain terms, that you know what "alcoholism" is, what an "alcoholic" is, and what "problem drinking" is...

[Hammersley1967]

(II)

Because of this certain knowledge, it would seem that you know - with certainty - the distinction between problem drinking (drinker) and alcoholism (ic) is...

Since you know SO much about alcoholism, Im very, very curious...

Would you care to enlighten me as to this certain and clear cut distinction?

(Is part of this distinction based on the fact that alcoholism doesnt involve problem drinking?)

[Hammersley1967]

[A]

"'ALCOHOL DEPENDENCE', then your precious studies might have some appeal - even some relevence

I am not impressed or interested however, because the studies are NOT about ALCOHOLISM or ALCOHOLICS

The comical thing (in a sad way) is that neither you or your experts seem to be even aware of the difference.

'problematic use' Gimme a break!"

FYI Weiny, the word ALCOHOLISM is not used in medicine anymore. The words "ALCOHOL DEPENDENCE" or ALCOHOL DEPENDENCE SYNDROME" are used instead...

[Hammersley1967]

[B]

Check the DSM diagnosis and the World Health Organizations lexicon of alcohol and drug terms...

Why, I hear you ask?

Because it connotes a pathology which is now not accepted by modern medicine...

Sorry to show up that ol' ignorance of yours again...

"Comical"...

[weinerout]

My ignorance?

Not in this case Hammersley1967

Anyone, repeat anyone, should be able to make a clear distinction between "problematic use"  and "alcoholism"

Once again Hammersley1967 you have made a mess of it. You are as foolish and as useless as some of the "experts" you cite.

[weinerout]

Lower myself to it? Is that what you mean?

I'll tell you what Hammersley1967. Go to the nearest junior high school, find a small group of kids and ask them if they can tell you the difference between a 1. problem drinker and  2. an alcoholic

They'll figure it out pretty quick and you'll have your answer.

[Hammersley1967]

[I]

"Lower myself to it? Is that what you mean?

I'll tell you what Hammersley1967. Go to the nearest junior high school, find a small group of kids and ask them if they can tell you the difference between a 1. problem drinker and 2. an alcoholic"

They'll figure it out pretty quick and you'll have your answer."

The squirmings of a desperate, trapped man who is out of ideas and answers and well and truly out of his intellectual depth...

[Hammersley1967]

[II]

Your OWN indoctrination (as a poor substitute for rational thinking) gotcha this time Weiny!

If a junior high school student has a working knowledge and articulate ability to convey this conceptual distinction, then surely it CANT be too much of a stretch for your good learned self - can it?

Go on Weiny (quick), have a go!

You CANT can you...?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

[Hammersley1967]

"Lower myself to it? Is that what you mean?"

Yeah, that's EXACTLY what I mean!

Stop hiding Weiny...

Time to come out and face the music and take your bitter medicine...

[weinerout]

First of all Hammersley 1967, when you mark my comments as spam, I can't find them and the thread becomes a mess.

Next, I will not lower myself to explain to you the simple difference(s) between a problem drinker and an alcoholic. Why? Because you already know there are dramatic differences and you just don't want to admit it. Anyone (repeat - anyone) knows they are different, so I'm not going to humor you or help you get out of the trap you laid for yourself. Now you can go manic .

[Hammersley1967]

"I will not lower myself to explain to you the simple difference(s) between a problem drinker and an alcoholic. Why? Because you already know there are dramatic differences and you just don't want to admit it. Anyone (repeat - anyone) knows they are different"

Oh Weiny! You frightened little man.

You will not "lower yourself" - is that it?

ANYONE knows they are different but you can't articulate the difference?

What an absolute intellectual light weight coward.

And now EVERYONE can see it.

[Hammersley1967]

"I'm not going to humor you or help you get out of the trap you laid for yourself."

Trap that I've laid for myself?

Trap that I laid for you more like...

But in reality that's not true either because ANYONE reading this thread can see that you are a desperate intellectual light weight that has actually trapped himself!

Like a lobster ambling ignorantly into a lobster pot...

SQUIRM! SQUIRM! SQUIRM! goes the ol' Weiny...

[Hammersley1967]

@vet725

BRUCE NEEDS ANOTHER 5th STEP!!!

ASSUME THE POSITION!!!

[Hammersley1967]

"First of all Hammersley 1967, when you mark my comments as spam, I can't find them and the thread becomes a mess."

Weiny, there's NO WAY that I would spam your comments and deprive the cyber world of your utter intellectual annihilation unfolding here...

Look at your comments. See the thumbs-up/thumbs-down score? The host has obviously set a "six thumbs down" to spam limit.

You simply accrued too many thumbs down in your original comment - and rightly so!!!

[Hammersley1967]

"Lower myself to it? Is that what you mean?

I'll tell you what Hammersley1967. Go to the nearest junior high school, find a small group of kids and ask them if they can tell you the difference between a 1. problem drinker and 2. an alcoholic

They'll figure it out pretty quick and you'll have your answer."

You DO understand that EVERYONE reading this thread can see your intellectual weakness and cowardice dont you Weiny?

And youre n ot embarrassed?

PATHETIC!!!

[Hammersley1967]

Still waiting for you to articulate that PATENTLY OBVIOUS AND EASILY EXPRESSED distinction between "alcoholism[ic]" and "problem drinking[er]" Weiny...

It MUST be too easy for you...

Yeah, that's it!

Pffft!

[Hammersley1967]

"My ignorance?"

Yes Weiny... YOUR ignorance...

You've actually trapped YOURSELF this time.

Cornered and out of answers with nowhere to go - lest you make an even BIGGER fool of yourself...

Once again Weiny, you've been well and truly OWNED.

[jonbon5674]

so basically you burned most of your eighth step?

[ts15210]

Um, Press radio and FILMS?

[AzzholesAnonymous]

I am AA

Do me or DIE!!!

[clint0nc0llier]

You know everything about nothing, old woman. Why don't you go speak in a prison and get fucked up the ass!

[rockyroad4003]

GEE CLINT MAYBE YOUR GAY

[rockyroad4003]

EVERY POST UR GAY COMMENTS

[rockyroad4003]

my point exactly. hahaha hehehe hohohoh lmao

[rockyroad4003]

hi, i am clint collier and i am gay but i cannot even admit it to myself. GET REAL GAYLORD!

[Richcool79]

Dog the Bounty Hunter always says that to people. " no ice in paradise!"On his tv shows.

[Richcool79]

As they would say no ice in paradise.

[Richcool79]

I like your web sight. I amn going to try this out. There saeem to be diffrerent

[Richcool79]

I have seen several of your videos and I notied that you all look very happy. what makes you group of people happy?

[rockyroad4003]

I.V.

[Richcool79]

What is a "4 5th steps? and what is an invatory? I have heard of AA or NA and I have been told that is a cult and to not get invovled. And why is it nessesary to do those two things to stop the cravings of drink. Do people get to the piont of being cured after doing an invotory?

[isegoria1]

Steps 4 and 5 can be best described as self abuse. List all of the evil crap you have ever done to the point where you feel sick.

Step 5 Now share that with a person you select in the program.

[Hammersley1967]

You forgot to tell him to then move onto the sixth step where the sponsor (or who ever you were foolish enough to share your 4th step with) goes to the police with your fourth step inventory and they arrest you. Inside prison you "become entirely ready" and you "humbly ask to have removed whatever Tyrone wants you to remove" - whether you like it or not...

[Dexterbirds]

we changed that method, we now use blackmail and extortion

[howDAREyouSIR]

5TH STEPS TO IRS

[Hammersley1967]

5th Steps to the sex offender's registry...

[ts15210]

That's not all it's about. Keep comin back.

[isegoria1]

Why? So I can duck responsibility for my past and present actions? So I can blame it on a disease? So I can blame it on anything but me?

Thanks for your thought stopping empty platitude.

[ts15210]

Is this *your* video? You obviously have some type of deep rooted resentment toward twelve step programs, so to you there would be no need to honor traditions. A program might help with that anger though. And possibly even diminish the need to feel superior via condescending comments on Youtube. Working the 12 steps does not give duck personal responsibility, honoring the traditions, is to protect the fellowship, not the self-centered addict. Keep comin back.

[isegoria1]

Resentment? Ha - Typical religious indoctrination response.

Thanks for your excuses and sad appologetic stance, it still does not make it true.

12 step program effectiveness = 5% with 5% without - get over it.

I have no need to "come back" and have not for more than a year. Never will. I have no reason to participate in empty minded platitudes.

[ts15210]

It's worked for me. :) For a very long time. I don't go myself very often anymore, but I could not have done what I did without it.

Whatever works for you, I'm happy for you.

Is there a better word than "resentment" for what your feelings are towards 12 step programs? Something that's not "religious indoctrination?" So why so angry? Did the whole "complete abstinence" thing throw you for a loop?

I'm done with this conversation, you can have the satisfaction of getting the last word in.

[isegoria1]

Angry? That is your assumption and the same assumption made by 12 steppers that find time in their busy schedules each day to send me death threats.

How is a person supposed to feel about daily death threats?

[weinerout]

isegoria, you should accept the fact that NOBODY gives a shit about you. Stop lying. Stop claiming that AA hit teams are actually trying to kill you. It just makes you look more foolish.

I've invited you before to describe the attempts on you life that you claim actually happened. "more than 4" is what you said. So, tell us about them. You won't of course.

You are NOT IMPORTANT!

Your videos get no views and nobody has been vote-botting you.

You are NOT getting death threats

Get real.

[isegoria1]

Awe did I make the big baby mad?

Must really suck to be you? Nice "spiritual principles" and thank you for proving them again.

[justanotherface123]

Thanks for showing us all just what 12 step is about.

You are projecting an awful lot. Get help.

[isegoria1]

Nice adhom just because you can not refute even one point. You are pathetic. If you are a "12 stepper" please excuse how your bullshit comment is step 12.

Fucking hypocrites.

[KnuckleheadHD]

RIGHT ON

[MEMBERS04438N]

hey guys, not to brag at all but i have enjoyed your vids and chit, but, just this one thing, okay...i shot up all of your weight combined in my dick in one month and how the phuck is a real doper like me going to learn anything from such lightweights, but good job boys, come back when you've done a real issue will ya

[911SGY]

People waste time in mysterious ways, indeed...

[imagineart]

Now THAT'S a 4th and 5th Step!