sonny liston will destroy prime mike tyson because of his style listons to big longer reach way beter left jab way stronger beter chin its basically who gets intimidated but i just dont see liston being afraid of tyson if cus is around that time hill probly duck him just like floyd pattrson but never know.
Liston would probably win. He has better reach and power, Ali said he hits harder than George Foreman. Liston beat Floyd Patterson, who was the champion, twice, in a COMBINED TOTAL OF UNDER 5 MINUTES. It was the only time Ali was scared of any boxer.
foreman even said no one hits like tyson, which is saying that tyson hits harders. Mike had everything in his prime skill, speed, power, the ferousious ness of a champion he was trained by the greatest so he will be the greatest. He must of went up against good boxers if he won all 3 belts. Not his fault no one good in his era. But he was a animal
Three age-matched bouts: 1/ Age 20-23, Tyson has a shot against anyone, so let's give him this one vs Sonny. 2/ By the time he loses to Douglas, he'd lose to Liston, or Foreman, Holmes, Ali, Holyfleld, Louis, Lewis, Frazier, Norton, Marciano, or Dempsey. 3/ If the in-fact 34 & 35 year old Liston who destroyed Patterson fought the has-been Mike of 34 or 35, Mike would die in the ring. If he bit Sonny, he'd die sooner.
If Tyson hadn't suffered his downfall I could see the fight more clearly.
Tyson was never put under any real pressure during a fight in his prime ('85-'88) and no one creates more pressure than Liston or maybe Foreman. Tyson couldn't deal with offensive fighters who weren't intimidated that's for sure (i.e Holyfield, Douglas) and no one scared Sonny.
Tyson also said the hardest puncher he faced was Donovan Ruddock, well he doesn't hit anywhere near the same as Liston.
Mike tyson was trained to counter the jab. I think listons jab was awesome but like i said mike was trained to counter it. Also to add with the counter Mike tyson had the killer ingredient which is SPEED ! Speed wins every time . Sugar ray vs Hagler is a good example.
Sonny Liston was a beast, but Mike Tyson was ferocious! It's hard to even compare the two. Everyone likes to bring up the Holyfield and Lewis fight, but many over look the series of blatant headbutts that I think would piss any non-mma fighter off. Lewis beat Tyson legitimately, but it would have been a much better fight if it took place when Mike was in his prime.
@Treys19 Those who talk of Mike in or past his prime should be made aware that ALL of Sonny's well-known fights, (Patterson, Clay, Ali), took place WELL after his prime. The fact that Sonny stayed a great fighter into his mid-30s doesn't change the fact that he was even better 5 or 6 years earlier, and shouldn't be used against him in this debate.
anyone who thinks tyson would get beat by liston doesnt know shit about boxing. Tyson would of koed liston within 3-4 rounds. Liston would of thrown long jabs at tyson, mike easily slipping them and countering. body shots hurting sonny and frustrating sonny and we know sonny does not like being out of his comfort zone,look at ali vs liston. ali knocked out liston and tyson is quicker and more powerful in combinations then ali
Tyson was easilly intimidated, and Liston is the #1 most intimidating boxer of all times. He had bigger reach, much more power and a stronger chin. His iron jabs would keep Tyson away and wear him down for the first 5 or 6 rounds, then a tired (and petrified) Tyson would get put away quickly from a Liston left hook in round 7. Easy. Just look at Patterson who used Tyson's peek-a-boo style, it failed...epically...and twice
@MrBumboclart tyson intimidated?? By who, Sonny Liston...bahahaha. Come on man. Sonny shit his pants when he fought Ali all because ali played a few tricks with him and got into his head. Let sonny feel one hook from tyson and the ref will be cleaning his shit stain off the canvas.and u cant compare patterson with mike. they were completely different, tyson was a master at peekaboo and floyd never suited that style and didnt ever do that style justice. he suited a more technical boxing style
@IronTapOuT Tyson's so called prime 85-88, who did he fight really? A bunch of bums, his best opponents; Holyfield, Lewis e.c.t ALL beat him! You know why? He was intimidated, in his documentary he spoke about crying out of fear before bouts! He developed alapeshia because of his worry! Sonny Liston would keep away and use his 84" (tyson 71") reach advantage and jab to wear Mike out. Heck! Tyson even seemed intimidated in the first Bruno staredown.
@MrBumboclart well Tyson never faced any good opponents at the 85-88 because there was no good heavyweights at that time only some legends like Holmes that are past there primes I'm mean look at Rocky Marciano he hasn't fought that many good opponents either just Legends past their primes like Joe Louis as well. Both Tyson and Marciano were in the primes in the shitty years of the heavyweight.
@IronTapOuT lol in the first match liston had the right shoulder injuried the second match was controlled was a joke and liston vs ali liston = not prime liston lol
Tyson prime against foreman prime,foreman probably ko's tyson but tyson would have a chance to do the reverse. You would be the biggest fool not to think that tyson might have ko'd foreman had they fought in their primes.Tyson would only need to concentrate on 2 rounds.he's always been the best at that! and foreman walks right in but tyson walks in with his head moving side to side ,when he was his slickest and fastest in early 88. Why would it be so unusuall to see tyson landing first
Good,you set yourself up to answer the rest of my questions!
SO you believe foreman had a 3 yr reign from 70 -73 like tysons from 85-88.?
Tysons decline in his technique of combination punching,head movement after the 2nd round,jabbing ,punching off the right foot and an every 2 to 3 month fighting schedule,happened to him because he left the damato camp and became a sloppy one punch at a time fighter.What was Foremans reason to be over his peak by the ali fight??
Back in October of 1974, many respected boxing historians and ex-world champions said that they believed that George Foreman was the strongest and hardest punching heavyweight champion in boxing history – something that is endorsed by many even to this day. Former heavyweight greats Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis, who both knew a thing or two about punching, agreed that Foreman was the most powerful heavyweight they had ever seen.
best fighter of the world is muhamed ali next to foreman who challanged prime tyson openly 3 times.lennox luis is just kid to copare muhamed ali or prime foreman.tyson has trouble with moving opponents like douglas was.so the frazer who has best body moments would give great fight to tyson.tyson has knock out power and he used that well.but pulls like foreman that dosent even matter.
clean steroid free tyson would be just zero aganst any heaviweight of late 60 and if you gave same roids to liston he would take tyson apart as a kid.
Max Baer - what a character! The guy just did not have a serious bone in his body.I think he's top five among the big hitters in heavy division. The only fight he took halfway seriously was Schmeling and he beat the shit out of Max that nite. He drove Dempsey crazy with his pre- fight antics. The book Cinderella man is as much about Max as it is about Braddock and shows Max to be a hell of a guy.
@1899sharkey Kinda my thoughts also, boxing people of the time say the talent was there to be the greatest sort of an Ali of his time when it came to personality. Funny I don't think he ever really wanted to box.
For all the people who frantically and religously try to figure out when Tysons prime was let me help you, When he was smack, dab in the middle of his prime, Sonny and George would have fucked him up.Tyson was like a shiny car with a miss in the engine, put too much pressure on it and it blows. The best of a bunch of coke addicts of the sorry 80's.
Sonny would have Tyson in trouble in the first round and finish him in the second.The first time Tyson felt Sonnys jab his demeanor would change quickly. When the intimidator cannot intimidate he becomes intimidated. Even their criminal past showed their differences, Sonny was a "collector" for the mob while the tin man stole old ladys purses. No comparison here 90 percent of historians who saw them both pick Sonny!
@1899sharkey im sorry where did u get that those facts?? 90% bullcrap. also ur using ur own bias in saying as soon as tyson faced opposition he backed down. when did tyson ever back down in his prime? when? the facts say never. and dont tell me to start listing fighters who brought opposition to tyson. ALSO, tyson even said himself he has no problem taking guys to 10/12/15 rounds, he knows hes got a full fight, liston has never taking the full arsenal of tysons shots for 10 rounds
The great Jose Ribalta! Dont forget his wins over iron chinned Tillis and Green! If ifs and buts were nuts and berries we'd all have a merry x-mas.lmao
@1899sharkey seriously buddy, ill try not call u adumbass coz all i said was jose ribalta was able to take a beating unlike many of tysons opponents even the more well known fights. watch the fight and then try to make fun of tyson. and with douglas of ocurse its done tyson lost fair and square, the point is tyson caused his own downfall, douglas's victory was NOT coz he was a better fighter
@1899sharkey see i simply dont think uve seen all of tysons fights, nor the all of the televised fights of liston. once you do, then compare their punching abilities, and then make ur statement of tysons "intimidation." remember when tyson first began boxing at only 18 years old, he was no intimidator, yet he still destroyed guys with more pro experience, and age. the intimidation in tyson comes when u throw a hard punch, tyson ducks & throws a hook that drops you. not just prefight stuff
ok, sonny liston a hvywt great, tough guy, witha s long reach and strong left jab, but never did liston have that power of being undefeated, he was never the best, he was too slow and thats why ali, casius clay at time destroyed. and tyson givin the proper dedication to the fight should beat liston, coz tyson was made to fight guys with jabs coz hell find an opening, (guys who throw jabs alot tend to leave themselves open) tysons got faster and power than ali so im goin for tyson
@1899sharkey fuck that, liston is too slow to do that, tyson would go in there with tons of movement hittin liston everywhere liston wouldnt even be able to catch a speedy and trim 220 lb tyson bouncing everywhere dipping and weaving. a long 84 inch poweful reach of liston wont stop tyson at his prime. trust me ali showed us that liston was too slow, and tysons got fast hands like ali so once tyson catches liston with something, liston will feel it
@jak1anorue -If ignorance is bliss than you are one happy ass hole! Referencing former fighters for your knowledge is ridiculous. George Foreman says Tysons great so he must be great! lmao--- no lmfao
@1899sharkey im sorry that a heavywt champ like FOREMAN's opinion who ACTUALLY BOXED in the era of the GREATS as well ast tysons o doesnt change ur opinion, but if thered be anone to listen to then id trust foremans words. BERT SUGAR& LARRY HOLMES AGREE! IS THAT ENOUGH OR ARE THEY ALSO IDIOTS WHOM DONT KNOW SHIT? theres nothing ignorant in saying tyson was 1 of the best prime fighter, only in his prime tho coz he fucked up his own career wen he had it all thats why hes not the best-ALI is by far
@jak1anorue Few have seen Sonny in his prime. He's already 34, (real age extrapolated from old police records), when he destroyed Patterson, & 37 for his rematch with Ali. 28yr old Sonny wasn't slow, & had great defense. His intimidating demeanor & power, and the suspicious circumstances of his 2 losses to Clay/Ali have drawn attention away from the fact that he was a technically brilliant fighter.
@lazur1 oh trust me im not denying liston any of his deserved credit, brutal puncher, great left jab, and for a slugger, fast, but patterson is no where near tysons caliber. im telling, tyson is more compact, faster hands more technically sounds especially witht eh combos that come in after the weaving. and yes compared to tyson liston is too slow, ive seen listons past fights trust me. and age doesnt necessarily define prime, its when ur considered at ur best that defines it
@jak1anorue Actually Floyd's VERY fast, just didn't have power to back it up. & their technique's very similar,(Cus). But I didn't mean to compare Mike & Floyd. I'm confused about your 'prime' discourse. Are you saying Sonny's prime was 34? All one has to do is look @earlier clips to see a coltishly-loose mid&late-20s Liston's much quicker & more athletic. Mike's prime? It IS over at 23 1/2. Bet on Mike @22 vs Sonny @28, but @20 he's not quite ready & by 24 Sonny gets his lunch money.
Liston and Tyson would be an interesting fight. Liston wasn't afraid of any boxer in the history of the world. No one would intimidate him, he did the intimidating. Liston by T.K.O. Round 6
tyson faught the bigger stronger men between the two but im still not so sure tyson woud beat liston, the both had their advantages. liston was heavier handed and tyson was faster. chin was about the same, tyson was harder to hit cleanly but liston paced himself better. i could see how either one could win the fight but i would sure pull for liston!
@daufas tysons wayyy faster than liston! tyson slipped thru jabs all throughout the 80s and delivered brutal ko combos. jabs never stopped tyosn and neither will the very powerful but slower liston
@MrReinhardt1 no tysons priority was strictly business in the ring, he simply thought that if u didnt belong to be in the same ring as tyson then get the fuck out. tyson was no thug, he was a boxing business man. all the talk ended wen it got the ring. and im talking about 80s prime tyson when hes not all fucked up. tyson would show how much faster and accurate and elusive he is than the very powerful but slower liston
george foreman would get the shit beat out of him by an old liston and could not back him up or phase him in sparring sessions no matter what, how do you think mike would do?
@thecrazyoftheinsane georger foreman has a completely different fighting style than tyson. fighting style make a huge difference in the outcome of the fight, tyson was a speedy swarmer with the power of a slugger. while foreman was a slugger just like liston who maybe had some elements of the basic boxer but mostly slugger
@jak1anorue i was talking about listons chin and that he could take much heavier punches than tyson could deliver. Liston never had problems with anyone who came towards him but its an interesting matchup nonetheless.
@thecrazyoftheinsane definitely think it would be a gr point of great matchup coz ur right liston wouldnt back up nor would be afraid, just from my point of view, tyson belong to an not so great era of light heavyweights, tyson being the most elusive,having one of the fastest and deadliest hands, so just coz liston wont back doesnt mean he wont go down trust
@thecrazyoftheinsane wen did tyson ever back up? wen tyson got rattled by bruno who was all muscle and a considerably heavy puncher, tyson took the hit & kept working like nothing happened. once again, tyson doesnt care wat his oponent does, his opponent could be taunting him like ali & that wouldnt pahse him tyson would just stick to his designated gamplan and trust me u could be super tough like liston but just like liston against ali (twice) or berbick against tyson when ur body quits ur done
It would have been a great fight. I could see it going either way and I think either fighter had the tools to beat the other on a given night. It would have to do with which night they fought. *LOL*
The problem with this match up is... Tyson can't fight on the inside very well.. Liston can. If you add Listons jab which was extremly powerful, mike would even have trouble getting to the mid range.
I give head movement and hand speed to Mike Tyson, but Liston has power and the jab, and could bust out some really powerful combos when needed, Liston would man handle him on the inside and stop him within 5 rounds.
Yeah, I agree with that. Liston was bigger and taller then Tyson, longer reach, and more punching power. Add to that his powerful jab and Liston would actually fight Tyson and not back off when Tyson would swarm them. As you can see, some of them back up when Tyson bobs and weaves into them. Tyson wouldn't be able to back LISTON up. Liston would be the bully here.
@TommyGun7111 but check this out, tyson once said u stick to ur gameplan and ill stick to mine that means tyson fight his own fight no matter wat, tysons attack never ended, and also tyson was verrry elusive, more so than ali perhaps, yet he had the same speed. and if ali beat liston with his speed then think of a speedy yet powerful tyson, how never stops attack regardless of wat u do. tyson will slip thru listons heavy jabs and continue to attack till he goes down. listons too slow for tyson
im a huge mike tyson fan,,,,but sonny liston was flat out dangerous,,from 1958 to 1962,,his prime years,,,he destroyed every contender in the top ten,,,no heavyweight challenger ever pulled that off,,,,,no one was left to fight but the champ patterson,,,in his prime liston uses his reach and power punch to dismantle tyson,,,,,it was holyfield who discovered a stiff jab to tyson upper shoulder area kept him from firing as well as keeping him off balance,,liston exploits this to easy ko win
Liston would've kicked the living shit out of Tyson--no ifs, ands, or buts about it!! Tyson would've been just too damn small for Sonny--he have bashed Tyson with that battering ram left jab (the best in boxing history IMHO) and dropped him in 3 or less!! No contest!!!
Good you respect Liston but on what do you base this?Get real,ha ha.Yes he had an amazing,powerful jab but who did he beat?Middleweight Patterson(RIP)?Liston did'nt even know how to cut the ring off.Look at Ali 1-Liston looks terrible,just walking after Ali.Tyson would bombard him and stop him in about 5 rounds possible on cuts.That's real shit!!!
Foreman was on the Cus D'amato no fight list for Tyson ? Tyson was scared to death of a 40 plus Foreman thats why the fight never came off . Liston was Foreman's idol , sparring partner and friend . Liston was the greatest intimadator with the most powerful jab ever his reach was 84 inches . Tyson's was one of the shortest 71 inches . Tyson would fear liston also he's the bigger bully ? It's plain and simple LISTON DESTROYS TYSON . But my bet is if Liston was around Tyson would duck him also .
All I have to say regarding Sonny Liston is this: CASSIUS CLAY aka MUHAMMED ALI. As far as Tyson is concerned: BUSTER DOUGLAS, EVANDER HOLYFIELD (twice), LENNOX LEWIS, and geez...don't remember the name of that 270 lb. Irish fighter who knocked Tyson's demented ass and MIND OUT! Out of boxing FOREVER, hopefully! Tyson never WAS, & history will never recognize him as ONE, of the ALL-TIME GREAT HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS, and RIGHTLY SO!
About Lewis and that 270lb irish fighter well it's called past his prime.Remember Ali v Berbick??
Liston was a great fighter and a very feared fighter as was Tyson for a short period of time 85-89.Liston stronger and had a better jab and Tyson faster and better defensive skills.Prime Mike wins this one.
When Ali was asked about Tyson he said this:'Tyson would have beaten me. Foreman was powerful but slow enough for me to evade him, but Tyson was powerful and almost as fast as i was so he would be very dangerous'
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So what is your reply to that? Ali was ass kissing?
Ali was saying something nice. When did Ali say that? 20 years ago?
Tyson said Ali would beat him. Two great boxers exchanging compliments. Ali said nice things about Lennox Lewis, Jack Dempsey, Rocky Marciano. Tyson did the same. That's how it goes.
i don't think ali was just being nice you can tell in that interview that ali had a lot of respectable fear for tyson, and tysons style is like fraziers except faster and more devastating, but to be honest i have no idea who would win
I disagree. Ali never feared anyone. Earnie Shavers and Larry Holmes were feared, even Foreman didn't want to fight them, but Ali stepped up even past his prime.
Frazier and Tyson, of course while they are similar they're still two different fighters. Frazier was prepared for 12 rounds, Tyson was looking for the KO right away...but you some fighters don't go down that easy...Holyfield, Foreman, Holmes, and Ali with one of the best chins in boxing history? Can Tyson go even 15 rounds with him?
man ali did have fear, everyone dose but he thought that no one would beat him and that in the long run he was indestructible, and a prime mike tyson could go 15 rounds but it would be hard with ali. In mike's prime he was looking for a ko only because he was the ko king, but the real question isn't can tyson go 15 with ali, it's can ali last 5 rounds with mike.....
I already told you, certain boxers don't go down that fast. Holyfield, Holmes, Foreman, Ali, you couldn't knock them out in 5 rounds. You have to expect a long fight and I don't see how Tyson can beat him in a long fight.
nahh tyson had good stamina the only problem might have been that he put so much commitment to every punch he throws and he trained as hard as any boxer has in his prime he can last more than 3 rounds for sure.
sure he can. he lasted with Frazier who has twice the heart and chin of Tyson. Plus Ali he fought nearly everyone in his era and didn't duck anybody. So he didn't have ANY fear. Ali can last 5 rounds with mike easy. he lasted with foreman and shavers who hit harder then tyson. he would last with him easy. tyson wouldnt really because any quality fighter doesnt get KOd that easy. you're just over rating Mike again... What it took to beat tyson in his prime-A foreman, a Liston, or an Ali.
@TommyGun7111 correction, it took an ali to beat a prime tyson, foreman is debatable and liston is fair game for tyson, im thinking a hard fought win for tyson against liston
No way would Tyson beat Liston. Liston has all the advantages besides speed.
Liston's too slow? Not in his prime. He was fast for a big man. And all it would take would be one body shot to get Tyson to back off. Once he backs up tyson it would be over because liston is biggger and stronger.
I seriously believe Liston would destroy Tyson.
Prime Tyson is not unbeatable dude. Anyone that loses at 23 years old is a questionable fighter, no matter the situation.
@TommyGun7111 but listen to wat u said: he was big for a fast man for a big man, and ur right, but ive seen listons fights like when he got the title from patterson in 62 and he DESTROYED patterson but still patterson never had a chance since he didnt use his agility and hand speed and he basically clutched the whole fight. tyso was heavyier, more compact, handspeed like ali, insane accuracy witht the combos, and he could weave thru jabs like crazy, liston may last all 12/15 but tyson will win
True, Tyson is better then patterson, but they have the same style: Patterson came forward, and tried to use his hand speed, but he couldn't because he kept on running into those hooks and uppercuts. Tyson really just hit harder and was heavier then patterson and had a better chin: Liston would still take him out, because he would manhandle tyson and use his angles and power to defeat him. I don't think Tyson beats liston based on the psyichal aspect.
@TommyGun7111 well i guess thats just where we think differently but at least u can acknowledge the facts. one more thing, think of how elusive tyson was, he hardly ever got caught with a hard hit in his prime and then when he did, it didnt stop him at all. just food for though
@TommyGun7111 no doubt liston will catch him a couple times, but tysons never bin takin down in 80s or even 90s with one hit, and i doubt liston would be able to do that, and then think about how many times tyson will catch him, if ali caught him with a sharp short right think of wat tyson can do. but enough said and obvioiusly well prolly stick to our own opinions, im just satisfyed ur not ignorant
@jak1anorue You are right IMO Liston was a powerful man when fighting small heavies but Tyson was powerful whether fighting 6'6" 230+ world class olympic level or 260+ brutes he could brutalize and move them with his punches. Tyson was only dropped when he didn't want to fight anymore not because he was stunned and it took in Lewis's case a 6'5" 250 pound man hitting him with his best shots for 8 rds and even then Tyson laid there with clear eyes.
@TommyGun7111 Liston was not big enough to handle Tyson or anyone in his generation. Marvis Frazier may have been a champion in the 50-60's but instead he fought guys like Holmes and Tyson watch the Tyson Frazier fight and see how strong Tyson was compared to a small heavy and he was bigger than most of Listons opponents. Funny Liston hit harder an yet with those small 6oz horse hair gloves he was 54-4 with a mere 39 KO's hmmmmmmm
@TommyGun7111 but Liston hit harder then mostly everyone in Tyson's career
This is a naive statement been following the sport for 40yrs and this is ignorant. Liston wore those small 6oz gloves and Tyson wore 12oz thumbless gloves. You apparently do not know the difference between the gloves and why they changed to thumbless larger gloves. If Liston only had 39 KO's in his wins with 6oz gloves it would be fair to say he may only have had 25 KO's today with the larger gloves.
@TommyGun7111 not to continue my argument but ive literally see all of tysons fights, and the whole fights, not just the highlight, tyson exhausted opponents and wore them down in one two rounds, when he was 18, all of listons fights how he really was the big bear but tyson could throw a ko punch with left or right or from an orthodox or southpaw stance, it didnt matter where or how tyson threw a punch it could be a ko, thats why tyson punches harder in my book
Yes, but Liston threw hard punches too, he could really knock someone out with any punch in his arsenal, but I don't think punching power would be a big factor anyway, because Liston has a great chin and so does Tyson.
@TommyGun7111 We have the luxury of looking back at all the factors that made Liston what he was. Few of his opponents would be legit heavies, few of his opponents had legit athletic ability or talent. None of his opponents had the physical attributes of the heavies in the 70's on up. Liston could not have handled Chuvalo had they fought George was too tough, strong and in shape ever wonder why George never got a fight with him.
I can't fuckin believe you don't think Liston would beat Chuvalo.. that's teh biggest bullshit in this entire argument.
Thats y liston hit harder. and since we'll never know that for sure i don't know why im even having this converastion Nope. Holy would have trouble with liston. and chuvalo would NOT beat Liston that is the biggest bullshit I have ever heard. you underate liston. smarten up.
Of course the gloves make a differnece, we'll have to agree to disagree, because liston beats tyson.
@TommyGun7111 No I do not it was a bad matchup for Sonny even his handlers and the matchmakers knew it. WHich one is it the gloves make a difference or they don't if you agree then imagine what Tyson would have done to the cruiserweights liston beat up on. Imagine Tyson with 6oz gloves that would push back over the nuckles. You think Mitch Green looked bad after 1 punch imagine had it been sanctioned with taped up hands and bag gloves.
@TommyGun7111 The point is your opinion is a that of a kid living in fantasy world who has little real knowledge to base a solid opinion on. The Gloves Liston used had less padding than MMA gloves that is a fact not an opinion. The Gloves Tyson and all the heavies into the 80's used were big padded thumbless power nullifying gloves for safety. The fighters Tyson and to this day KO are real monster heavyweights Listons were cruisers.
@TommyGun7111 WHat ??? Tyson was an animal who was stronger hit harder and was faster than Patterson. He had a 19 1/2 in neck that could take anything Liston could muster. Huge genetic differences between Tyson and Patterson the style was good the difference is between a guy who at 15-16yrs old was KO'ing world class 201 pd heavies while Patterson was winning 156lb fights. Tyson was a killer with a mean streak patterson is a nice guy who could fight.
And? Patterson had better headmovement and he was faster.
I doubt he would be able to take everything, he got knocked down by evander holyfield, really..
Liston had a huge neck, too.
Patterson was a good fighter.
That of a kid? you don't know me. So what if the gloves were smaller. That really does mean that Liston hits harder. I don't live in a fantasy world. What's wrong wtih me thinking Liston hits harder? That's my opinion.
@TommyGun7111 No Patterson was not near the fighter in any way Tyson was. Styles were similar Floyd never had the strength to pull it off. Liston had average measurements in every way as far as heavies his neck I believe was 16.5 compared to Tysons 19.5 there are wrestlers who don't have a neck that big. Liston had 16in upper arms Tyson had 18. Did you say the gloves make no difference???? how old are you really??what is your education level how familiar are you with head trauma?
@Richdanahuff - I see you have all of Tysons measurements. I was wondering about the size of his heart? You overanalyzers never talk about Tysons heart. Sure it held up against all the coke addicts he was fighting in the 80's, but how about against other atg's?
@1899sharkey Whoa coke addicts?? Cocaine was a common drug used in the 1800's. You cannot measure what is in a mans heart when you don't care if you win or lose anymore like Tyson didn't by 1990. Overanalyzers what??? how about I have knowledge of things that are a factor ever been a fighter???How about Listons heart you emotional types like to read a book like the Devil and Sonny liston and take the story as infallible proof.
@Richdanahuff thank you, they all say tyson couldnt handle the pressure of an all time great, bullshit tyson was ready to take on anyone as a prime, just prep him up, no matter what they did he would simply continue his attack, thats wat d'amato trained him to. to tyson, it didnt who u were or wat u did, the game changer would only be whether u could take 10/12/15 rounds of tysons powerpacked body shots and then to the head. i mean physically who could outight tyson? no one
@1899sharkey I will say I was a fighter from the 70's til the 90's and never remember Coke addicts being an issue the way you may have read. The funny thing about analyzing the way you make it sound is everyone in boxing use these as factors from the Vegas oddsmakers to the fightes themselves. Curious are you guys virgins the world has not seemed to reveal reality to you guys yet
@Richdanahuff-Tyson bowled over the weakest comp.in div. history. He's nowhere near top tenner. I've been in the fight game for nearly 40 years and one thing i've learned is those who have never fought never take heart or endurance into consideration. Hell even Tyson doesn't believe he could whip Sonny!
@1899sharkey Not true and you took a look at Listons record and you believe those fighters were better?? I am sure my 200+ amateur and pro fights give me some insight as well as the fighters and matchmakers I have worked for. Tyson didn't beklieve what???he was a bi-polar lunatic who would one minute want to eat Lewis's kids then kiss on the cheek you believe this guy??
@1899sharkey nearly 40 years and one thing i've learned is those who have never fought never take heart or endurance into consideration
Have you read any of my posts ??? my friend you look at Sonnys record against those bums and you compare him to a 20 yr old kid who was destroying grown men??? Heart is not apparently what you think it is in the pros it is a different world. Matchmaking is 90% of the fighter and yes that applied to Liston as well just like Patterson, Marciano and Louis
@Richdanahuff it never ceases to amaze me how fast people will say tyson fought chumps yet they disreagard he what 18, 19, 20? also tyson continued to devastate everyone no matter how much experiennce, whether it be a olympic gold medalists, heavyweight champs former champs, or number one contender. but theyre all supposedly bums
@jak1anorue Agreed, We look back at the old fighters with misty eyes and believe they were something they weren't look at Joe Louis's bum of the month club. I wasn't there and cannot say how bad some of the fighters were but you could never convince my Dad or Rocky Marciano that he wasn't that great. His star rose like Tysons beating up former champs and bums. Liston beat up bums also my dad was a sparring partner for Zora Folley he thought he was a great heavy.
@jak1anorue Maybe he was and maybe he wasn't. Tysons reputation and the stories about him are his downfall. I would bet my money that if Liston was alive today he would be trash talked the same way and maybe worse. Liston faced 1 fighter of the world class caliber and that was Ali and no Patterson was not a world class heavy he was a world class lt Heavy which he should have been. D'Amato wanted a heavyweight champ period
@Richdanahuff thats why he invested in tyson so much he saw the spark and turned it into a roaring blaze. and yea patterson was too small to fight liston, patterson couldnt even utilize his superior handspeed and agility to that of listons, no surprise patterson lost twice. and liston v ali shows everyone wat happens wen u put a slow guy against someone strong & much quicker, tyson happens to have the same handspeed and combination superiority of ali, & no question about tysons power at all
@jak1anorue Yeah every fighters trainers and managers have the task of keeping there fighter healthy both mentally and physically. If his head is not straight he won't care if he wins or loses and if he is only in it for the money which is what Tysons career became then there is no way to make him want to be the best.
@Richdanahuff true that. heart has nothing to do with that. tysons will and motivation went down the drain coz he let his life out of the ring affect wat happened inside. but its just nice to be able to see the way boxing is supposed to be when watching tysons old fights, he forced guys to elevate their game or go down in 1/2 rounds. all his opponents could do was keep their distance from tysons on wrap him up as soon as tyson got in. that there shows the affect of prime tysons talent.
@jak1anorue With a fighter like a Tyson or a Liston you got to keep them away from their lives they are who they are. Funny thing I was wondering what these guys think about listons heart in Ali fight 1 and 2 my suspicions are that Liston could never beat Ali and knew it and quit.
@Richdanahuff yea FORREAL how do you let a man dance around you and not try to convince the refur fine and can continue to fight, and in the other fight his shoulder hurt, ridiculous! hahaha great point! ali made the big bear look as pathetic as a care bear lol. sounds corny but really listons lack of speed showed against ali, and obviously he couldnt take brutal shots
@jak1anorue Funny he couldn't take brutal shots from a fighter who never set down on his punches. I think Ali had heavier hands than given credit for byt he never sat down on his shots and went for broke lating it all on the line like a Frazier. IMO it was Liston who chose to quit because he could beat the man just Duran did to Leonard.
@Richdanahuff i see youre point. and btw duran v leonard 2 was an interesting one. but any ways ill try to get all of tysons first 28 fights up but itll take some time. but once theyre up on my yuotube page, feel free to watch any of his fights, theyre always nice to watch wat tyson does, his style is simple but deadly and practically unstoppable. uve prolly seen most or all of em, but tbh id rather watch some of those fights than heavywt fights now
@jak1anorue -Another thing sperm extracter when your buddy brags about his resume dont put too much faith in it. He knows he's got a dummy on the other end!
@1899sharkey see the thing is u said weve got boxers here laughing at you. well thing is i certainly dont think hed be that descript about have boxing exp just to impress some tyson hating lunatic. i agree tyson was a crazy guy who did some stupid shit fucked up his own boxing career, however i cannot deny the talent, theres nothing paranoid in that at all WHEN YOU WATCH THE FIGHTS. im no delusional idiot as u proclaim
@1899sharkey and seriously i assume ur adult, well you certainly do NOT make a point and calling me a butt sniffer, shows ur maturity and it shows u knew u were wrong and thats wat u settled for, pathetic name calling, good job buddy. just like tyson one moment ull sound knnowledgable then the next u ruin ur reputation by doing something stupid!
@1899sharkey From some of your posts I would have to say your the BS artists your info comes other peoples opinions it can't be from evidence or experience. Curious you made the comment about me having a dummy on the other end and after readingf his posts he is alot smarter than you. Its clear to all here you don't like Tyson oh well who cares but you love I got my jaw broke by little old Marty Marshall Liston what a joke.
@Richdanahuff -The only b.s. on here is your claim about your record.The fighters i know dont feel the need to brag about their records.As for your knowledgeable friend lmao. 200 fights?My guess is you've never been in a ring! If you had you would know that fighters with weak tickers dont beat atg's. Send your next post to your butt buddy, i dont care to read your garbage! Fraud
@1899sharkey Well tou can call Jim Beasley and ask him if he recognizes my sign in name. LOLOL jackass. Weak tickers like the one Liston had when he fought Ali ??reading your posts you have no idea what you are talking about all old fighters love to talk about their fights. Old Pete Falcon had over 80 pro fights and was a sparrin g partner for Teddy Red Top Davis loved to talk about his fights
@Richdanahuff - anyone who's been to nat. g.g.'s could pull Jim Beaslys name out of their ass. Ask Ray Rodgers if Tyson could beat Sonny. What do you think Stan Gallup would have thought? Billy Myles? Igo to nat. g.g.'s like most people go to the corner store! Just got back from Little Rock.
@1899sharkey I knew Jim way back in Hutchinson Ks he was the KOGG(Reg 12) pres then became the Nat GG president later all while he was still an exec at Hutchinson news co.. Oh well it doesn't matter I am not here to sell you shit you keep running your f'ing mouth about how a REAL fighter could never understand heart. Its a wonder you talk about Sonny like he was a hero or something but what did he do in his career to prove he could have handled todays fighters? beat up cruisers?
@Richdanahuff- Liston has never been a favorite of mine, I just happen to think he would handle Tyson. I had the privilidge of having a conversation with Stan Gallup at the 98 Biloxi, miss. nationals and he was lamenting the sorry state of the sport he loved.Wll if you had 200 fights thats about 140 more than I had. I was nowhere near world class, but my stablemate was a top amateur who lost to Joe Manley at the '80 olympic trials in atlanta. I fought a few pro bouts on his cards.
@1899sharkey Funny you said that Tyson was not my favorite either if there was any modern fighters I lamented it was Riddick Bowe. I am a huge fan of the old time fighters and am intrigued with Listons life etc...Tyson is a puzzle as well the kid could win off of god given talent anytime he wanted but he quit wanting to be a champ long before the Holyfield fights.
@1899sharkey The Sparring sessions with Holy proved that he would never match up with him D'Amato knew it and when he was alive wanted nothing to do with him. D'Amato was no fool just like Foremans people knew he was a bad matchup for Jerry Quarry all based off sparring matrches where Jerry beat him up. You have been around the game long enough to know how to steer a fighter to his strengths and away from kryptonite fighters.
@Richdanahuff i'm not stupid enough to believe that Tyson wasn't a multi- talented fighter. I will never believe that he would beat sonny or George. You mentioned the silver gloves- Davison boxing club, Davison,mich.-several national champions in the mid. 70s- mid 80s!
@1899sharkey I wondered if they still had the Silver Gloves I don't follow the junior guys as much as I used. These days I B.S. around with the WCAP and US Team boys since I live in the Springs these days. Don't remember the team name I only fought in them twice J.O. was my steady tourney as a junior fighter. I did lose to a guy in Lincoln Ne from Omaha he was so fast I could count 5-6 punches being thrown everytime I slipped his shots.
@Richdanahuff - The j.o.s were a much more prestigios tournament,We had two fighters that captured national crowns. I never did fight as a junior, but I did lie about my age to get into the g.g.s at 15. The best fighter i fought as an amateur was Darnell Knox, who went on to fight Mike Nunn for the midd. title. he was ranked no.1 in the country at the time.
@1899sharkey There used to be a sub-novice division(14-15 yr olds and a novice division(16 -?) and the the open was 16 and up and these were the only guys who qualled for the regional team headed by the winningest coach. Correct if I am wrong the top 2 qualify for nthe US Team tryouts. USA-ABF does not exist anymore under that name but does the PAL still have a national tourney??
@Richdanahuff - Yes the p.a.l. does still have a national tourney, I think its in Cal. this year. When I fought we only had novice and open, we do now have a sub-novice division. U.S.A.-A.B.F. was simply a.a.u. in my time its now u.s.a. boxing. Champions and runner-up advance. In our state we have two g.g. franchises and both adance to g.g. nationals. However in u.s.a. tourney its the whole state and part of another state, so its much harder to advance.
@1899sharkey I remember when it was AAU. I know that as far as the U.S. Team goes they place more credence in the USA boxing than they did in Nat GG. Alot of fighters save themselves or used to for the USA-ABF/AAU tourney and bypass the Nat GG just to keep miles off the odometer.
@Richdanahuff -Correct. The u.s. tourney is the path to the international bouts which everyone covets. The g.g.s had that mystique and drew sellout gates, at least in our state. Although our views differ on hvy. history, your's are respected here. I'm going back to the old timers sites.lol
@1899sharkey liston was overrated,holyfield would box rings around him the same way he did to foreman.Tyson from the 88 yr would beat liston.liston was too slow .liston looked good against weak in your face opponents and stationary boxers.Once the opponent could box or punch like tyson or foreman,liston would go byebye.
@fadethetrade Back in October of 1974, many respected boxing historians and ex-world champions said that they believed that George Foreman was the strongest and hardest punching heavyweight champion in boxing history – something that is endorsed by many even to this day. Former heavyweight greats Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis, who both knew a thing or two about punching, agreed that Foreman was the most powerful heavyweight they had ever seen.
@jimmynablee I know,I remember but the way lyle kept bouncing right up and the way dino dennis took a thousand foreman shots ,tells me the same problem as tyson had.They both tend to lose their power after the 3rd or 4th round.But the advantage I believe that tyson had over foreman was that tyson could outpoint boxers,(Tillis,Tucker,etc) Jimmy young wasn't better then tillis when tillis fought tyson and Tucker could have outboxed a young foreman .
@jimmynablee I know old Foreman wasn't the same as the young foreman but maybe holyfield could have outboxed even the young foreman since Jimmy young could,certainly holyfield who was better then Jimmy young. maybe we overrated foreman after the 2nd round.Maybe he and tyson were the 2 greatest fighters of all time in the first 2 rounds. but foreman also lost to Morrison,UGH! Again, I know young george was better but was he really in terms of boxing,I think foreman got better older as a boxer.
"Who would have won had they fought at their best? The best Foreman was the one who fought from late 1972 through October 1974 when he lost to Ali. The best Holmes fought during the years 1979-82. In my opinion, the undefeated Foreman of ‘73-‘74 would have beaten the undefeated Holmes of ‘80-‘82. I don't believe Holmes could have survived the Foreman that Muhammad Ali survived."
@fadethetrade , Ali didn't beat Foreman by boxing him, and I don't think Holmes could have either. Ali had to endure a helluva beating to the head and body before he could take advantage of a spent George Foreman. After losing to Ali, Foreman doubted his stamina and was finished emotionally. This led to the measured style he fought under the tutelage of Gil Clancy. And that's why he lost to Jimmy Young. Had the Zaire version of Foreman fought Young, Foreman would have won inside three rounds. "
can you understand foreman was not in his prime mentally after he lost ali? foreman entered in a depression.
according your theory, any legend in the history would smash mike tyson because he was destroyed and humiliated by the biggest bum ever, james buster douglas
@jimmynablee Tyson easily outpointed tucker who ko'd a fit douglas.Tyson was a very different level fighter in short periods of his life.But his best between late 87 and 88,he beats prime holy,holmes and lewis but not foreman or the clay that beat liston.
@jimmynablee You're not fair giving foreman the excuse after 3 short years to have excuses to lose to guys tyson would have ko'd quite easily but when tyson loses his peak after 1988,you dont think that counts for him when he was 40% mentally for that fight and lost 30 lbs 2 weeks before the fight and got knocked down by ancient greg page and faced a douglas who,that night beats lyle,young,gives ali and foreman and holmes headaches.As dundee said,the setup was in for a style beating
fadethetrade i know tyson was bad mentally against douglas, i am not 1 blind fanboy suckcocks but you named the fight against jimmy young.( foreman did lose by ud, and he did not want ko young, foreman wanted to show to the people that who could go to the distance)
and tyson lost by brutal ko. ron lyle would give buster douglas the biggest beating in his life. and jimmy young was stolen against ali,shavers and norton(of course he would beat douglas)
they are very simmaler
Rasta19856 7 months ago
i think if tyson kept his head moving dodging listons jabs and went to listons body i think he would win
ShaunPalmerr 8 months ago
sonny liston will destroy prime mike tyson because of his style listons to big longer reach way beter left jab way stronger beter chin its basically who gets intimidated but i just dont see liston being afraid of tyson if cus is around that time hill probly duck him just like floyd pattrson but never know.
boxing4life1000 9 months ago
Liston would probably win. He has better reach and power, Ali said he hits harder than George Foreman. Liston beat Floyd Patterson, who was the champion, twice, in a COMBINED TOTAL OF UNDER 5 MINUTES. It was the only time Ali was scared of any boxer.
carmodifire 10 months ago 2
@carmodifire I think Ali was also scared of both Frazier and Foreman but of course he still whopped them both
brooklyn560 8 months ago
Man, why do people always have to make these videos? Tyson would most likely win, but Liston COULD knock Tyson out.
Ostrasize 10 months ago
@Ostrasize prob cos people like you keep watching them :)
jrgniuwer 8 months ago
Tyson KO for sure!! HE is too fast for this old guy.
Trojanxplayer 10 months ago
and how about all u people judging mike go face him u wanna be tough guys
pp09ify 10 months ago
foreman even said no one hits like tyson, which is saying that tyson hits harders. Mike had everything in his prime skill, speed, power, the ferousious ness of a champion he was trained by the greatest so he will be the greatest. He must of went up against good boxers if he won all 3 belts. Not his fault no one good in his era. But he was a animal
pp09ify 10 months ago
Liston would destroy Tyson he has no chance in hell
kenomy66 10 months ago
tyson never faced a man with a jab like sonnys i think tyson would be too technical and skilled for him though
Felces 10 months ago
Three age-matched bouts: 1/ Age 20-23, Tyson has a shot against anyone, so let's give him this one vs Sonny. 2/ By the time he loses to Douglas, he'd lose to Liston, or Foreman, Holmes, Ali, Holyfleld, Louis, Lewis, Frazier, Norton, Marciano, or Dempsey. 3/ If the in-fact 34 & 35 year old Liston who destroyed Patterson fought the has-been Mike of 34 or 35, Mike would die in the ring. If he bit Sonny, he'd die sooner.
lazur1 10 months ago
tyson never had a prime,he fought shit in his"prime" and folded when fcing tough confident opponents
messier991102 10 months ago
If Tyson hadn't suffered his downfall I could see the fight more clearly.
Tyson was never put under any real pressure during a fight in his prime ('85-'88) and no one creates more pressure than Liston or maybe Foreman. Tyson couldn't deal with offensive fighters who weren't intimidated that's for sure (i.e Holyfield, Douglas) and no one scared Sonny.
Tyson also said the hardest puncher he faced was Donovan Ruddock, well he doesn't hit anywhere near the same as Liston.
KO9 Liston
MrBumboclart 1 year ago
Mike tyson was trained to counter the jab. I think listons jab was awesome but like i said mike was trained to counter it. Also to add with the counter Mike tyson had the killer ingredient which is SPEED ! Speed wins every time . Sugar ray vs Hagler is a good example.
Bladerunner55217 1 year ago
Sonny Liston was a beast, but Mike Tyson was ferocious! It's hard to even compare the two. Everyone likes to bring up the Holyfield and Lewis fight, but many over look the series of blatant headbutts that I think would piss any non-mma fighter off. Lewis beat Tyson legitimately, but it would have been a much better fight if it took place when Mike was in his prime.
Treys19 1 year ago
@Treys19 Those who talk of Mike in or past his prime should be made aware that ALL of Sonny's well-known fights, (Patterson, Clay, Ali), took place WELL after his prime. The fact that Sonny stayed a great fighter into his mid-30s doesn't change the fact that he was even better 5 or 6 years earlier, and shouldn't be used against him in this debate.
lazur1 10 months ago
anyone who thinks tyson would get beat by liston doesnt know shit about boxing. Tyson would of koed liston within 3-4 rounds. Liston would of thrown long jabs at tyson, mike easily slipping them and countering. body shots hurting sonny and frustrating sonny and we know sonny does not like being out of his comfort zone,look at ali vs liston. ali knocked out liston and tyson is quicker and more powerful in combinations then ali
IronTapOuT 1 year ago
tyson beat liston?????? lol.....
buzzinhard71 1 year ago
joe louis would kill 'em all son ...
ProKILLER91J 1 year ago
Tyson was easilly intimidated, and Liston is the #1 most intimidating boxer of all times. He had bigger reach, much more power and a stronger chin. His iron jabs would keep Tyson away and wear him down for the first 5 or 6 rounds, then a tired (and petrified) Tyson would get put away quickly from a Liston left hook in round 7. Easy. Just look at Patterson who used Tyson's peek-a-boo style, it failed...epically...and twice
MrBumboclart 1 year ago 2
@MrBumboclart tyson intimidated?? By who, Sonny Liston...bahahaha. Come on man. Sonny shit his pants when he fought Ali all because ali played a few tricks with him and got into his head. Let sonny feel one hook from tyson and the ref will be cleaning his shit stain off the canvas.and u cant compare patterson with mike. they were completely different, tyson was a master at peekaboo and floyd never suited that style and didnt ever do that style justice. he suited a more technical boxing style
IronTapOuT 1 year ago
@IronTapOuT Tyson's so called prime 85-88, who did he fight really? A bunch of bums, his best opponents; Holyfield, Lewis e.c.t ALL beat him! You know why? He was intimidated, in his documentary he spoke about crying out of fear before bouts! He developed alapeshia because of his worry! Sonny Liston would keep away and use his 84" (tyson 71") reach advantage and jab to wear Mike out. Heck! Tyson even seemed intimidated in the first Bruno staredown.
MrBumboclart 1 year ago
@MrBumboclart well Tyson never faced any good opponents at the 85-88 because there was no good heavyweights at that time only some legends like Holmes that are past there primes I'm mean look at Rocky Marciano he hasn't fought that many good opponents either just Legends past their primes like Joe Louis as well. Both Tyson and Marciano were in the primes in the shitty years of the heavyweight.
Brownpride480 7 months ago
@IronTapOuT lol in the first match liston had the right shoulder injuried the second match was controlled was a joke and liston vs ali liston = not prime liston lol
djsimo149 10 months ago
Tyson prime against foreman prime,foreman probably ko's tyson but tyson would have a chance to do the reverse. You would be the biggest fool not to think that tyson might have ko'd foreman had they fought in their primes.Tyson would only need to concentrate on 2 rounds.he's always been the best at that! and foreman walks right in but tyson walks in with his head moving side to side ,when he was his slickest and fastest in early 88. Why would it be so unusuall to see tyson landing first
fadethetrade 1 year ago
Good,you set yourself up to answer the rest of my questions!
SO you believe foreman had a 3 yr reign from 70 -73 like tysons from 85-88.?
Tysons decline in his technique of combination punching,head movement after the 2nd round,jabbing ,punching off the right foot and an every 2 to 3 month fighting schedule,happened to him because he left the damato camp and became a sloppy one punch at a time fighter.What was Foremans reason to be over his peak by the ali fight??
fadethetrade 1 year ago
Back in October of 1974, many respected boxing historians and ex-world champions said that they believed that George Foreman was the strongest and hardest punching heavyweight champion in boxing history – something that is endorsed by many even to this day. Former heavyweight greats Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis, who both knew a thing or two about punching, agreed that Foreman was the most powerful heavyweight they had ever seen.
jimmynablee 1 year ago
best fighter of the world is muhamed ali next to foreman who challanged prime tyson openly 3 times.lennox luis is just kid to copare muhamed ali or prime foreman.tyson has trouble with moving opponents like douglas was.so the frazer who has best body moments would give great fight to tyson.tyson has knock out power and he used that well.but pulls like foreman that dosent even matter.
supralee 1 year ago
clean steroid free tyson would be just zero aganst any heaviweight of late 60 and if you gave same roids to liston he would take tyson apart as a kid.
supralee 1 year ago
Max Baer - what a character! The guy just did not have a serious bone in his body.I think he's top five among the big hitters in heavy division. The only fight he took halfway seriously was Schmeling and he beat the shit out of Max that nite. He drove Dempsey crazy with his pre- fight antics. The book Cinderella man is as much about Max as it is about Braddock and shows Max to be a hell of a guy.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey Kinda my thoughts also, boxing people of the time say the talent was there to be the greatest sort of an Ali of his time when it came to personality. Funny I don't think he ever really wanted to box.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
For all the people who frantically and religously try to figure out when Tysons prime was let me help you, When he was smack, dab in the middle of his prime, Sonny and George would have fucked him up.Tyson was like a shiny car with a miss in the engine, put too much pressure on it and it blows. The best of a bunch of coke addicts of the sorry 80's.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
Sonny would have Tyson in trouble in the first round and finish him in the second.The first time Tyson felt Sonnys jab his demeanor would change quickly. When the intimidator cannot intimidate he becomes intimidated. Even their criminal past showed their differences, Sonny was a "collector" for the mob while the tin man stole old ladys purses. No comparison here 90 percent of historians who saw them both pick Sonny!
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey im sorry where did u get that those facts?? 90% bullcrap. also ur using ur own bias in saying as soon as tyson faced opposition he backed down. when did tyson ever back down in his prime? when? the facts say never. and dont tell me to start listing fighters who brought opposition to tyson. ALSO, tyson even said himself he has no problem taking guys to 10/12/15 rounds, he knows hes got a full fight, liston has never taking the full arsenal of tysons shots for 10 rounds
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue Prime? You mean until he turned 23 1/2 years old?
lazur1 1 year ago
The great Jose Ribalta! Dont forget his wins over iron chinned Tillis and Green! If ifs and buts were nuts and berries we'd all have a merry x-mas.lmao
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey seriously buddy, ill try not call u adumbass coz all i said was jose ribalta was able to take a beating unlike many of tysons opponents even the more well known fights. watch the fight and then try to make fun of tyson. and with douglas of ocurse its done tyson lost fair and square, the point is tyson caused his own downfall, douglas's victory was NOT coz he was a better fighter
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue -I was just kidding besides you're starting to convince me!
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey cant tell if ur being sarcastic but ok
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@1899sharkey see i simply dont think uve seen all of tysons fights, nor the all of the televised fights of liston. once you do, then compare their punching abilities, and then make ur statement of tysons "intimidation." remember when tyson first began boxing at only 18 years old, he was no intimidator, yet he still destroyed guys with more pro experience, and age. the intimidation in tyson comes when u throw a hard punch, tyson ducks & throws a hook that drops you. not just prefight stuff
jak1anorue 1 year ago
ok, sonny liston a hvywt great, tough guy, witha s long reach and strong left jab, but never did liston have that power of being undefeated, he was never the best, he was too slow and thats why ali, casius clay at time destroyed. and tyson givin the proper dedication to the fight should beat liston, coz tyson was made to fight guys with jabs coz hell find an opening, (guys who throw jabs alot tend to leave themselves open) tysons got faster and power than ali so im goin for tyson
jak1anorue 1 year ago
Sonny in two or three! Liston would show Tyson what a real bully was.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey fuck that, liston is too slow to do that, tyson would go in there with tons of movement hittin liston everywhere liston wouldnt even be able to catch a speedy and trim 220 lb tyson bouncing everywhere dipping and weaving. a long 84 inch poweful reach of liston wont stop tyson at his prime. trust me ali showed us that liston was too slow, and tysons got fast hands like ali so once tyson catches liston with something, liston will feel it
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue -If ignorance is bliss than you are one happy ass hole! Referencing former fighters for your knowledge is ridiculous. George Foreman says Tysons great so he must be great! lmao--- no lmfao
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey im sorry that a heavywt champ like FOREMAN's opinion who ACTUALLY BOXED in the era of the GREATS as well ast tysons o doesnt change ur opinion, but if thered be anone to listen to then id trust foremans words. BERT SUGAR& LARRY HOLMES AGREE! IS THAT ENOUGH OR ARE THEY ALSO IDIOTS WHOM DONT KNOW SHIT? theres nothing ignorant in saying tyson was 1 of the best prime fighter, only in his prime tho coz he fucked up his own career wen he had it all thats why hes not the best-ALI is by far
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue Few have seen Sonny in his prime. He's already 34, (real age extrapolated from old police records), when he destroyed Patterson, & 37 for his rematch with Ali. 28yr old Sonny wasn't slow, & had great defense. His intimidating demeanor & power, and the suspicious circumstances of his 2 losses to Clay/Ali have drawn attention away from the fact that he was a technically brilliant fighter.
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 oh trust me im not denying liston any of his deserved credit, brutal puncher, great left jab, and for a slugger, fast, but patterson is no where near tysons caliber. im telling, tyson is more compact, faster hands more technically sounds especially witht eh combos that come in after the weaving. and yes compared to tyson liston is too slow, ive seen listons past fights trust me. and age doesnt necessarily define prime, its when ur considered at ur best that defines it
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue Actually Floyd's VERY fast, just didn't have power to back it up. & their technique's very similar,(Cus). But I didn't mean to compare Mike & Floyd. I'm confused about your 'prime' discourse. Are you saying Sonny's prime was 34? All one has to do is look @earlier clips to see a coltishly-loose mid&late-20s Liston's much quicker & more athletic. Mike's prime? It IS over at 23 1/2. Bet on Mike @22 vs Sonny @28, but @20 he's not quite ready & by 24 Sonny gets his lunch money.
lazur1 1 year ago
Liston and Tyson would be an interesting fight. Liston wasn't afraid of any boxer in the history of the world. No one would intimidate him, he did the intimidating. Liston by T.K.O. Round 6
jameycruz2 1 year ago
@jameycruz2 just coz ur not intimidated doesnt mean u wont lose, remember liston vs clay? ali crapped on liston.
jak1anorue 1 year ago
tyson faught the bigger stronger men between the two but im still not so sure tyson woud beat liston, the both had their advantages. liston was heavier handed and tyson was faster. chin was about the same, tyson was harder to hit cleanly but liston paced himself better. i could see how either one could win the fight but i would sure pull for liston!
anselmochevelle 1 year ago
Liston's wicked jab would have kept Mike at bay until he put him away
daufas 1 year ago
@daufas tysons wayyy faster than liston! tyson slipped thru jabs all throughout the 80s and delivered brutal ko combos. jabs never stopped tyosn and neither will the very powerful but slower liston
jak1anorue 1 year ago
Can you imagine the stare down in the center of the ring? Tyson was a want to be thug who would be facing a real one, Sonny by KO
MrReinhardt1 1 year ago
@MrReinhardt1 no tysons priority was strictly business in the ring, he simply thought that if u didnt belong to be in the same ring as tyson then get the fuck out. tyson was no thug, he was a boxing business man. all the talk ended wen it got the ring. and im talking about 80s prime tyson when hes not all fucked up. tyson would show how much faster and accurate and elusive he is than the very powerful but slower liston
jak1anorue 1 year ago
mike tyson win
IKEAboks 1 year ago
george foreman would get the shit beat out of him by an old liston and could not back him up or phase him in sparring sessions no matter what, how do you think mike would do?
thecrazyoftheinsane 1 year ago
@thecrazyoftheinsane georger foreman has a completely different fighting style than tyson. fighting style make a huge difference in the outcome of the fight, tyson was a speedy swarmer with the power of a slugger. while foreman was a slugger just like liston who maybe had some elements of the basic boxer but mostly slugger
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue i was talking about listons chin and that he could take much heavier punches than tyson could deliver. Liston never had problems with anyone who came towards him but its an interesting matchup nonetheless.
thecrazyoftheinsane 1 year ago
@thecrazyoftheinsane definitely think it would be a gr point of great matchup coz ur right liston wouldnt back up nor would be afraid, just from my point of view, tyson belong to an not so great era of light heavyweights, tyson being the most elusive,having one of the fastest and deadliest hands, so just coz liston wont back doesnt mean he wont go down trust
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@thecrazyoftheinsane wen did tyson ever back up? wen tyson got rattled by bruno who was all muscle and a considerably heavy puncher, tyson took the hit & kept working like nothing happened. once again, tyson doesnt care wat his oponent does, his opponent could be taunting him like ali & that wouldnt pahse him tyson would just stick to his designated gamplan and trust me u could be super tough like liston but just like liston against ali (twice) or berbick against tyson when ur body quits ur done
jak1anorue 1 year ago
It would have been a great fight. I could see it going either way and I think either fighter had the tools to beat the other on a given night. It would have to do with which night they fought. *LOL*
fistofate 1 year ago
The problem with this match up is... Tyson can't fight on the inside very well.. Liston can. If you add Listons jab which was extremly powerful, mike would even have trouble getting to the mid range.
I give head movement and hand speed to Mike Tyson, but Liston has power and the jab, and could bust out some really powerful combos when needed, Liston would man handle him on the inside and stop him within 5 rounds.
TommyGun7111 2 years ago
Liston in two.
dspreis 2 years ago
Tyson would've killed Sonny Liston dumbass fuckers, he did'nt have the heart or the speed to beat Mike Tyson. What a bunch of dumbass?
W316549 2 years ago
if there was anyone who could beat tyson in his prime, it would be liston
Francog23 2 years ago
Yeah, I agree with that. Liston was bigger and taller then Tyson, longer reach, and more punching power. Add to that his powerful jab and Liston would actually fight Tyson and not back off when Tyson would swarm them. As you can see, some of them back up when Tyson bobs and weaves into them. Tyson wouldn't be able to back LISTON up. Liston would be the bully here.
TommyGun7111 2 years ago
@TommyGun7111 but check this out, tyson once said u stick to ur gameplan and ill stick to mine that means tyson fight his own fight no matter wat, tysons attack never ended, and also tyson was verrry elusive, more so than ali perhaps, yet he had the same speed. and if ali beat liston with his speed then think of a speedy yet powerful tyson, how never stops attack regardless of wat u do. tyson will slip thru listons heavy jabs and continue to attack till he goes down. listons too slow for tyson
jak1anorue 1 year ago
Liston was truly a beast . But tyson was a big retarded phychotic basterd. liston would OBLITERATE tyson in 1: 02 of round 1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! .
ts97526801 2 years ago
im a huge mike tyson fan,,,,but sonny liston was flat out dangerous,,from 1958 to 1962,,his prime years,,,he destroyed every contender in the top ten,,,no heavyweight challenger ever pulled that off,,,,,no one was left to fight but the champ patterson,,,in his prime liston uses his reach and power punch to dismantle tyson,,,,,it was holyfield who discovered a stiff jab to tyson upper shoulder area kept him from firing as well as keeping him off balance,,liston exploits this to easy ko win
nastylefthook1 2 years ago
Liston would've kicked the living shit out of Tyson--no ifs, ands, or buts about it!! Tyson would've been just too damn small for Sonny--he have bashed Tyson with that battering ram left jab (the best in boxing history IMHO) and dropped him in 3 or less!! No contest!!!
nyterpfan 2 years ago
Good you respect Liston but on what do you base this?Get real,ha ha.Yes he had an amazing,powerful jab but who did he beat?Middleweight Patterson(RIP)?Liston did'nt even know how to cut the ring off.Look at Ali 1-Liston looks terrible,just walking after Ali.Tyson would bombard him and stop him in about 5 rounds possible on cuts.That's real shit!!!
swedishtysonfan 2 years ago
I have great respect for him and we all should he was CHAMP but If you ever saw prime Tyson(not headhunting copy of the 90:s)86-89 you'd agree.
swedishtysonfan 2 years ago
prime liston(59-64) would kill prime tyson(86-88) within 3or 4 rounds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!end of story...
puljacina 2 years ago
Liston would knock Tyson out. Mike couldnt back him up enough to win. Sonnys jab would open Tyson up like a can opener.
ExplosiveThinMan 2 years ago
Foreman was on the Cus D'amato no fight list for Tyson ? Tyson was scared to death of a 40 plus Foreman thats why the fight never came off . Liston was Foreman's idol , sparring partner and friend . Liston was the greatest intimadator with the most powerful jab ever his reach was 84 inches . Tyson's was one of the shortest 71 inches . Tyson would fear liston also he's the bigger bully ? It's plain and simple LISTON DESTROYS TYSON . But my bet is if Liston was around Tyson would duck him also .
pfitzger2e1 3 years ago
All I have to say regarding Sonny Liston is this: CASSIUS CLAY aka MUHAMMED ALI. As far as Tyson is concerned: BUSTER DOUGLAS, EVANDER HOLYFIELD (twice), LENNOX LEWIS, and geez...don't remember the name of that 270 lb. Irish fighter who knocked Tyson's demented ass and MIND OUT! Out of boxing FOREVER, hopefully! Tyson never WAS, & history will never recognize him as ONE, of the ALL-TIME GREAT HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONS, and RIGHTLY SO!
OldiesFan48 3 years ago
About Lewis and that 270lb irish fighter well it's called past his prime.Remember Ali v Berbick??
Liston was a great fighter and a very feared fighter as was Tyson for a short period of time 85-89.Liston stronger and had a better jab and Tyson faster and better defensive skills.Prime Mike wins this one.
swedishtysonfan 3 years ago
OldiesFan48 here is something for you:
When Ali was asked about Tyson he said this:'Tyson would have beaten me. Foreman was powerful but slow enough for me to evade him, but Tyson was powerful and almost as fast as i was so he would be very dangerous'
---------------------------------------
So what is your reply to that? Ali was ass kissing?
sonofthedestroyer 3 years ago
Ali was saying something nice. When did Ali say that? 20 years ago?
Tyson said Ali would beat him. Two great boxers exchanging compliments. Ali said nice things about Lennox Lewis, Jack Dempsey, Rocky Marciano. Tyson did the same. That's how it goes.
Khalifornia 3 years ago
i don't think ali was just being nice you can tell in that interview that ali had a lot of respectable fear for tyson, and tysons style is like fraziers except faster and more devastating, but to be honest i have no idea who would win
Francog23 2 years ago
I disagree. Ali never feared anyone. Earnie Shavers and Larry Holmes were feared, even Foreman didn't want to fight them, but Ali stepped up even past his prime.
Frazier and Tyson, of course while they are similar they're still two different fighters. Frazier was prepared for 12 rounds, Tyson was looking for the KO right away...but you some fighters don't go down that easy...Holyfield, Foreman, Holmes, and Ali with one of the best chins in boxing history? Can Tyson go even 15 rounds with him?
Khalifornia 2 years ago
man ali did have fear, everyone dose but he thought that no one would beat him and that in the long run he was indestructible, and a prime mike tyson could go 15 rounds but it would be hard with ali. In mike's prime he was looking for a ko only because he was the ko king, but the real question isn't can tyson go 15 with ali, it's can ali last 5 rounds with mike.....
Francog23 2 years ago
I already told you, certain boxers don't go down that fast. Holyfield, Holmes, Foreman, Ali, you couldn't knock them out in 5 rounds. You have to expect a long fight and I don't see how Tyson can beat him in a long fight.
Khalifornia 2 years ago
tyson in his prime could ko anyone out in 5 rounds but i do agree that if the fight goes past 6-7 rounds ali will win
Francog23 2 years ago
Actually I think he's in trouble if he doesn't knock him out in three rounds.
Khalifornia 2 years ago
nahh tyson had good stamina the only problem might have been that he put so much commitment to every punch he throws and he trained as hard as any boxer has in his prime he can last more than 3 rounds for sure.
Francog23 2 years ago
Yes he can, but if he doesn''t knock him out in 3 rounds there's a good chane he's gonna lose. That's what I was saying.
Other than that I love Tyson. He was a great occurrence at one time and a great story.
Khalifornia 2 years ago
sure he can. he lasted with Frazier who has twice the heart and chin of Tyson. Plus Ali he fought nearly everyone in his era and didn't duck anybody. So he didn't have ANY fear. Ali can last 5 rounds with mike easy. he lasted with foreman and shavers who hit harder then tyson. he would last with him easy. tyson wouldnt really because any quality fighter doesnt get KOd that easy. you're just over rating Mike again... What it took to beat tyson in his prime-A foreman, a Liston, or an Ali.
TommyGun7111 2 years ago
@TommyGun7111 correction, it took an ali to beat a prime tyson, foreman is debatable and liston is fair game for tyson, im thinking a hard fought win for tyson against liston
jak1anorue 1 year ago
No way would Tyson beat Liston. Liston has all the advantages besides speed.
Liston's too slow? Not in his prime. He was fast for a big man. And all it would take would be one body shot to get Tyson to back off. Once he backs up tyson it would be over because liston is biggger and stronger.
I seriously believe Liston would destroy Tyson.
Prime Tyson is not unbeatable dude. Anyone that loses at 23 years old is a questionable fighter, no matter the situation.
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 but listen to wat u said: he was big for a fast man for a big man, and ur right, but ive seen listons fights like when he got the title from patterson in 62 and he DESTROYED patterson but still patterson never had a chance since he didnt use his agility and hand speed and he basically clutched the whole fight. tyso was heavyier, more compact, handspeed like ali, insane accuracy witht the combos, and he could weave thru jabs like crazy, liston may last all 12/15 but tyson will win
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue
True, Tyson is better then patterson, but they have the same style: Patterson came forward, and tried to use his hand speed, but he couldn't because he kept on running into those hooks and uppercuts. Tyson really just hit harder and was heavier then patterson and had a better chin: Liston would still take him out, because he would manhandle tyson and use his angles and power to defeat him. I don't think Tyson beats liston based on the psyichal aspect.
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 well i guess thats just where we think differently but at least u can acknowledge the facts. one more thing, think of how elusive tyson was, he hardly ever got caught with a hard hit in his prime and then when he did, it didnt stop him at all. just food for though
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue
yeah, but Liston hit harder then mostly everyone in Tyson's career, except maybe lewis, but Liston could still possibly hit harder then Lewis, anyway,
Liston would certainly catch him eventually.
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 no doubt liston will catch him a couple times, but tysons never bin takin down in 80s or even 90s with one hit, and i doubt liston would be able to do that, and then think about how many times tyson will catch him, if ali caught him with a sharp short right think of wat tyson can do. but enough said and obvioiusly well prolly stick to our own opinions, im just satisfyed ur not ignorant
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue You are right IMO Liston was a powerful man when fighting small heavies but Tyson was powerful whether fighting 6'6" 230+ world class olympic level or 260+ brutes he could brutalize and move them with his punches. Tyson was only dropped when he didn't want to fight anymore not because he was stunned and it took in Lewis's case a 6'5" 250 pound man hitting him with his best shots for 8 rds and even then Tyson laid there with clear eyes.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 Liston was not big enough to handle Tyson or anyone in his generation. Marvis Frazier may have been a champion in the 50-60's but instead he fought guys like Holmes and Tyson watch the Tyson Frazier fight and see how strong Tyson was compared to a small heavy and he was bigger than most of Listons opponents. Funny Liston hit harder an yet with those small 6oz horse hair gloves he was 54-4 with a mere 39 KO's hmmmmmmm
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 but Liston hit harder then mostly everyone in Tyson's career
This is a naive statement been following the sport for 40yrs and this is ignorant. Liston wore those small 6oz gloves and Tyson wore 12oz thumbless gloves. You apparently do not know the difference between the gloves and why they changed to thumbless larger gloves. If Liston only had 39 KO's in his wins with 6oz gloves it would be fair to say he may only have had 25 KO's today with the larger gloves.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff
You're point? Tyson only had a few more KO's then him. All that means is that he KO'd more bums then Tyson did. Big deal.
So what if the gloves are smaller. Liston hits harder then tyson. thats my opinion.
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 not to continue my argument but ive literally see all of tysons fights, and the whole fights, not just the highlight, tyson exhausted opponents and wore them down in one two rounds, when he was 18, all of listons fights how he really was the big bear but tyson could throw a ko punch with left or right or from an orthodox or southpaw stance, it didnt matter where or how tyson threw a punch it could be a ko, thats why tyson punches harder in my book
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue
Yes, but Liston threw hard punches too, he could really knock someone out with any punch in his arsenal, but I don't think punching power would be a big factor anyway, because Liston has a great chin and so does Tyson.
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 Oh yeah he had a great chin ask Marty Marshall and Ali.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 We have the luxury of looking back at all the factors that made Liston what he was. Few of his opponents would be legit heavies, few of his opponents had legit athletic ability or talent. None of his opponents had the physical attributes of the heavies in the 70's on up. Liston could not have handled Chuvalo had they fought George was too tough, strong and in shape ever wonder why George never got a fight with him.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
I can't fuckin believe you don't think Liston would beat Chuvalo.. that's teh biggest bullshit in this entire argument.
Thats y liston hit harder. and since we'll never know that for sure i don't know why im even having this converastion Nope. Holy would have trouble with liston. and chuvalo would NOT beat Liston that is the biggest bullshit I have ever heard. you underate liston. smarten up.
Of course the gloves make a differnece, we'll have to agree to disagree, because liston beats tyson.
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 No I do not it was a bad matchup for Sonny even his handlers and the matchmakers knew it. WHich one is it the gloves make a difference or they don't if you agree then imagine what Tyson would have done to the cruiserweights liston beat up on. Imagine Tyson with 6oz gloves that would push back over the nuckles. You think Mitch Green looked bad after 1 punch imagine had it been sanctioned with taped up hands and bag gloves.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 The point is your opinion is a that of a kid living in fantasy world who has little real knowledge to base a solid opinion on. The Gloves Liston used had less padding than MMA gloves that is a fact not an opinion. The Gloves Tyson and all the heavies into the 80's used were big padded thumbless power nullifying gloves for safety. The fighters Tyson and to this day KO are real monster heavyweights Listons were cruisers.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 WHat ??? Tyson was an animal who was stronger hit harder and was faster than Patterson. He had a 19 1/2 in neck that could take anything Liston could muster. Huge genetic differences between Tyson and Patterson the style was good the difference is between a guy who at 15-16yrs old was KO'ing world class 201 pd heavies while Patterson was winning 156lb fights. Tyson was a killer with a mean streak patterson is a nice guy who could fight.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff
And? Patterson had better headmovement and he was faster.
I doubt he would be able to take everything, he got knocked down by evander holyfield, really..
Liston had a huge neck, too.
Patterson was a good fighter.
That of a kid? you don't know me. So what if the gloves were smaller. That really does mean that Liston hits harder. I don't live in a fantasy world. What's wrong wtih me thinking Liston hits harder? That's my opinion.
Liston could hit harder with a single shot imo.
TommyGun7111 1 year ago
@TommyGun7111 No Patterson was not near the fighter in any way Tyson was. Styles were similar Floyd never had the strength to pull it off. Liston had average measurements in every way as far as heavies his neck I believe was 16.5 compared to Tysons 19.5 there are wrestlers who don't have a neck that big. Liston had 16in upper arms Tyson had 18. Did you say the gloves make no difference???? how old are you really??what is your education level how familiar are you with head trauma?
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff - I see you have all of Tysons measurements. I was wondering about the size of his heart? You overanalyzers never talk about Tysons heart. Sure it held up against all the coke addicts he was fighting in the 80's, but how about against other atg's?
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey Whoa coke addicts?? Cocaine was a common drug used in the 1800's. You cannot measure what is in a mans heart when you don't care if you win or lose anymore like Tyson didn't by 1990. Overanalyzers what??? how about I have knowledge of things that are a factor ever been a fighter???How about Listons heart you emotional types like to read a book like the Devil and Sonny liston and take the story as infallible proof.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff thank you, they all say tyson couldnt handle the pressure of an all time great, bullshit tyson was ready to take on anyone as a prime, just prep him up, no matter what they did he would simply continue his attack, thats wat d'amato trained him to. to tyson, it didnt who u were or wat u did, the game changer would only be whether u could take 10/12/15 rounds of tysons powerpacked body shots and then to the head. i mean physically who could outight tyson? no one
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue outfight*
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@1899sharkey I will say I was a fighter from the 70's til the 90's and never remember Coke addicts being an issue the way you may have read. The funny thing about analyzing the way you make it sound is everyone in boxing use these as factors from the Vegas oddsmakers to the fightes themselves. Curious are you guys virgins the world has not seemed to reveal reality to you guys yet
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff-Tyson bowled over the weakest comp.in div. history. He's nowhere near top tenner. I've been in the fight game for nearly 40 years and one thing i've learned is those who have never fought never take heart or endurance into consideration. Hell even Tyson doesn't believe he could whip Sonny!
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey Not true and you took a look at Listons record and you believe those fighters were better?? I am sure my 200+ amateur and pro fights give me some insight as well as the fighters and matchmakers I have worked for. Tyson didn't beklieve what???he was a bi-polar lunatic who would one minute want to eat Lewis's kids then kiss on the cheek you believe this guy??
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@1899sharkey nearly 40 years and one thing i've learned is those who have never fought never take heart or endurance into consideration
Have you read any of my posts ??? my friend you look at Sonnys record against those bums and you compare him to a 20 yr old kid who was destroying grown men??? Heart is not apparently what you think it is in the pros it is a different world. Matchmaking is 90% of the fighter and yes that applied to Liston as well just like Patterson, Marciano and Louis
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff Hell tyson was a teenager for his first 23 fights if im not mistaken
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff it never ceases to amaze me how fast people will say tyson fought chumps yet they disreagard he what 18, 19, 20? also tyson continued to devastate everyone no matter how much experiennce, whether it be a olympic gold medalists, heavyweight champs former champs, or number one contender. but theyre all supposedly bums
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue Agreed, We look back at the old fighters with misty eyes and believe they were something they weren't look at Joe Louis's bum of the month club. I wasn't there and cannot say how bad some of the fighters were but you could never convince my Dad or Rocky Marciano that he wasn't that great. His star rose like Tysons beating up former champs and bums. Liston beat up bums also my dad was a sparring partner for Zora Folley he thought he was a great heavy.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@jak1anorue Maybe he was and maybe he wasn't. Tysons reputation and the stories about him are his downfall. I would bet my money that if Liston was alive today he would be trash talked the same way and maybe worse. Liston faced 1 fighter of the world class caliber and that was Ali and no Patterson was not a world class heavy he was a world class lt Heavy which he should have been. D'Amato wanted a heavyweight champ period
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff thats why he invested in tyson so much he saw the spark and turned it into a roaring blaze. and yea patterson was too small to fight liston, patterson couldnt even utilize his superior handspeed and agility to that of listons, no surprise patterson lost twice. and liston v ali shows everyone wat happens wen u put a slow guy against someone strong & much quicker, tyson happens to have the same handspeed and combination superiority of ali, & no question about tysons power at all
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue Yeah every fighters trainers and managers have the task of keeping there fighter healthy both mentally and physically. If his head is not straight he won't care if he wins or loses and if he is only in it for the money which is what Tysons career became then there is no way to make him want to be the best.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff true that. heart has nothing to do with that. tysons will and motivation went down the drain coz he let his life out of the ring affect wat happened inside. but its just nice to be able to see the way boxing is supposed to be when watching tysons old fights, he forced guys to elevate their game or go down in 1/2 rounds. all his opponents could do was keep their distance from tysons on wrap him up as soon as tyson got in. that there shows the affect of prime tysons talent.
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue With a fighter like a Tyson or a Liston you got to keep them away from their lives they are who they are. Funny thing I was wondering what these guys think about listons heart in Ali fight 1 and 2 my suspicions are that Liston could never beat Ali and knew it and quit.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff yea FORREAL how do you let a man dance around you and not try to convince the refur fine and can continue to fight, and in the other fight his shoulder hurt, ridiculous! hahaha great point! ali made the big bear look as pathetic as a care bear lol. sounds corny but really listons lack of speed showed against ali, and obviously he couldnt take brutal shots
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue Funny he couldn't take brutal shots from a fighter who never set down on his punches. I think Ali had heavier hands than given credit for byt he never sat down on his shots and went for broke lating it all on the line like a Frazier. IMO it was Liston who chose to quit because he could beat the man just Duran did to Leonard.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff i see youre point. and btw duran v leonard 2 was an interesting one. but any ways ill try to get all of tysons first 28 fights up but itll take some time. but once theyre up on my yuotube page, feel free to watch any of his fights, theyre always nice to watch wat tyson does, his style is simple but deadly and practically unstoppable. uve prolly seen most or all of em, but tbh id rather watch some of those fights than heavywt fights now
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@jak1anorue -Another thing sperm extracter when your buddy brags about his resume dont put too much faith in it. He knows he's got a dummy on the other end!
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey see the thing is u said weve got boxers here laughing at you. well thing is i certainly dont think hed be that descript about have boxing exp just to impress some tyson hating lunatic. i agree tyson was a crazy guy who did some stupid shit fucked up his own boxing career, however i cannot deny the talent, theres nothing paranoid in that at all WHEN YOU WATCH THE FIGHTS. im no delusional idiot as u proclaim
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@1899sharkey and seriously i assume ur adult, well you certainly do NOT make a point and calling me a butt sniffer, shows ur maturity and it shows u knew u were wrong and thats wat u settled for, pathetic name calling, good job buddy. just like tyson one moment ull sound knnowledgable then the next u ruin ur reputation by doing something stupid!
jak1anorue 1 year ago
@1899sharkey From some of your posts I would have to say your the BS artists your info comes other peoples opinions it can't be from evidence or experience. Curious you made the comment about me having a dummy on the other end and after readingf his posts he is alot smarter than you. Its clear to all here you don't like Tyson oh well who cares but you love I got my jaw broke by little old Marty Marshall Liston what a joke.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff -The only b.s. on here is your claim about your record.The fighters i know dont feel the need to brag about their records.As for your knowledgeable friend lmao. 200 fights?My guess is you've never been in a ring! If you had you would know that fighters with weak tickers dont beat atg's. Send your next post to your butt buddy, i dont care to read your garbage! Fraud
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey Well tou can call Jim Beasley and ask him if he recognizes my sign in name. LOLOL jackass. Weak tickers like the one Liston had when he fought Ali ??reading your posts you have no idea what you are talking about all old fighters love to talk about their fights. Old Pete Falcon had over 80 pro fights and was a sparrin g partner for Teddy Red Top Davis loved to talk about his fights
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff - anyone who's been to nat. g.g.'s could pull Jim Beaslys name out of their ass. Ask Ray Rodgers if Tyson could beat Sonny. What do you think Stan Gallup would have thought? Billy Myles? Igo to nat. g.g.'s like most people go to the corner store! Just got back from Little Rock.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey I knew Jim way back in Hutchinson Ks he was the KOGG(Reg 12) pres then became the Nat GG president later all while he was still an exec at Hutchinson news co.. Oh well it doesn't matter I am not here to sell you shit you keep running your f'ing mouth about how a REAL fighter could never understand heart. Its a wonder you talk about Sonny like he was a hero or something but what did he do in his career to prove he could have handled todays fighters? beat up cruisers?
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff- Liston has never been a favorite of mine, I just happen to think he would handle Tyson. I had the privilidge of having a conversation with Stan Gallup at the 98 Biloxi, miss. nationals and he was lamenting the sorry state of the sport he loved.Wll if you had 200 fights thats about 140 more than I had. I was nowhere near world class, but my stablemate was a top amateur who lost to Joe Manley at the '80 olympic trials in atlanta. I fought a few pro bouts on his cards.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey Funny you said that Tyson was not my favorite either if there was any modern fighters I lamented it was Riddick Bowe. I am a huge fan of the old time fighters and am intrigued with Listons life etc...Tyson is a puzzle as well the kid could win off of god given talent anytime he wanted but he quit wanting to be a champ long before the Holyfield fights.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@1899sharkey The Sparring sessions with Holy proved that he would never match up with him D'Amato knew it and when he was alive wanted nothing to do with him. D'Amato was no fool just like Foremans people knew he was a bad matchup for Jerry Quarry all based off sparring matrches where Jerry beat him up. You have been around the game long enough to know how to steer a fighter to his strengths and away from kryptonite fighters.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff i'm not stupid enough to believe that Tyson wasn't a multi- talented fighter. I will never believe that he would beat sonny or George. You mentioned the silver gloves- Davison boxing club, Davison,mich.-several national champions in the mid. 70s- mid 80s!
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey I wondered if they still had the Silver Gloves I don't follow the junior guys as much as I used. These days I B.S. around with the WCAP and US Team boys since I live in the Springs these days. Don't remember the team name I only fought in them twice J.O. was my steady tourney as a junior fighter. I did lose to a guy in Lincoln Ne from Omaha he was so fast I could count 5-6 punches being thrown everytime I slipped his shots.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff - The j.o.s were a much more prestigios tournament,We had two fighters that captured national crowns. I never did fight as a junior, but I did lie about my age to get into the g.g.s at 15. The best fighter i fought as an amateur was Darnell Knox, who went on to fight Mike Nunn for the midd. title. he was ranked no.1 in the country at the time.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey There used to be a sub-novice division(14-15 yr olds and a novice division(16 -?) and the the open was 16 and up and these were the only guys who qualled for the regional team headed by the winningest coach. Correct if I am wrong the top 2 qualify for nthe US Team tryouts. USA-ABF does not exist anymore under that name but does the PAL still have a national tourney??
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff - Yes the p.a.l. does still have a national tourney, I think its in Cal. this year. When I fought we only had novice and open, we do now have a sub-novice division. U.S.A.-A.B.F. was simply a.a.u. in my time its now u.s.a. boxing. Champions and runner-up advance. In our state we have two g.g. franchises and both adance to g.g. nationals. However in u.s.a. tourney its the whole state and part of another state, so its much harder to advance.
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey I remember when it was AAU. I know that as far as the U.S. Team goes they place more credence in the USA boxing than they did in Nat GG. Alot of fighters save themselves or used to for the USA-ABF/AAU tourney and bypass the Nat GG just to keep miles off the odometer.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@Richdanahuff -Correct. The u.s. tourney is the path to the international bouts which everyone covets. The g.g.s had that mystique and drew sellout gates, at least in our state. Although our views differ on hvy. history, your's are respected here. I'm going back to the old timers sites.lol
1899sharkey 1 year ago
@1899sharkey Interested to hear your opinion of Max Baer
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@1899sharkey Most people outside the amateur world only know of the GG and the Olympics.
Richdanahuff 1 year ago
@1899sharkey liston was overrated,holyfield would box rings around him the same way he did to foreman.Tyson from the 88 yr would beat liston.liston was too slow .liston looked good against weak in your face opponents and stationary boxers.Once the opponent could box or punch like tyson or foreman,liston would go byebye.
fadethetrade 1 year ago
@fadethetrade Back in October of 1974, many respected boxing historians and ex-world champions said that they believed that George Foreman was the strongest and hardest punching heavyweight champion in boxing history – something that is endorsed by many even to this day. Former heavyweight greats Jack Dempsey and Joe Louis, who both knew a thing or two about punching, agreed that Foreman was the most powerful heavyweight they had ever seen.
jimmynablee 1 year ago
@jimmynablee I know,I remember but the way lyle kept bouncing right up and the way dino dennis took a thousand foreman shots ,tells me the same problem as tyson had.They both tend to lose their power after the 3rd or 4th round.But the advantage I believe that tyson had over foreman was that tyson could outpoint boxers,(Tillis,Tucker,etc) Jimmy young wasn't better then tillis when tillis fought tyson and Tucker could have outboxed a young foreman .
fadethetrade 1 year ago
@jimmynablee I know old Foreman wasn't the same as the young foreman but maybe holyfield could have outboxed even the young foreman since Jimmy young could,certainly holyfield who was better then Jimmy young. maybe we overrated foreman after the 2nd round.Maybe he and tyson were the 2 greatest fighters of all time in the first 2 rounds. but foreman also lost to Morrison,UGH! Again, I know young george was better but was he really in terms of boxing,I think foreman got better older as a boxer.
fadethetrade 1 year ago
@fadethetra
jimmy young was 450 times better than tillis, jimmy young was stolen against ali,norton and shavers, and larry holmes avoided young and ron lyle.
jimmynablee 1 year ago
@fadethetrade article by frank lotierzo
"Who would have won had they fought at their best? The best Foreman was the one who fought from late 1972 through October 1974 when he lost to Ali. The best Holmes fought during the years 1979-82. In my opinion, the undefeated Foreman of ‘73-‘74 would have beaten the undefeated Holmes of ‘80-‘82. I don't believe Holmes could have survived the Foreman that Muhammad Ali survived."
jimmynablee 1 year ago
@fadethetrade , Ali didn't beat Foreman by boxing him, and I don't think Holmes could have either. Ali had to endure a helluva beating to the head and body before he could take advantage of a spent George Foreman. After losing to Ali, Foreman doubted his stamina and was finished emotionally. This led to the measured style he fought under the tutelage of Gil Clancy. And that's why he lost to Jimmy Young. Had the Zaire version of Foreman fought Young, Foreman would have won inside three rounds. "
jimmynablee 1 year ago
@fadethetrade
can you understand foreman was not in his prime mentally after he lost ali? foreman entered in a depression.
according your theory, any legend in the history would smash mike tyson because he was destroyed and humiliated by the biggest bum ever, james buster douglas
jimmynablee 1 year ago
@jimmynablee Tyson easily outpointed tucker who ko'd a fit douglas.Tyson was a very different level fighter in short periods of his life.But his best between late 87 and 88,he beats prime holy,holmes and lewis but not foreman or the clay that beat liston.
fadethetrade 1 year ago
@jimmynablee You're not fair giving foreman the excuse after 3 short years to have excuses to lose to guys tyson would have ko'd quite easily but when tyson loses his peak after 1988,you dont think that counts for him when he was 40% mentally for that fight and lost 30 lbs 2 weeks before the fight and got knocked down by ancient greg page and faced a douglas who,that night beats lyle,young,gives ali and foreman and holmes headaches.As dundee said,the setup was in for a style beating
fadethetrade 1 year ago
fadethetrade i know tyson was bad mentally against douglas, i am not 1 blind fanboy suckcocks but you named the fight against jimmy young.( foreman did lose by ud, and he did not want ko young, foreman wanted to show to the people that who could go to the distance)
and tyson lost by brutal ko. ron lyle would give buster douglas the biggest beating in his life. and jimmy young was stolen against ali,shavers and norton(of course he would beat douglas)
jimmynablee 1 year ago