The First Council of Nicaea was a council of Christian bishops today known as the catholic (universal) Church. They convened in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day İznik in Turkey) by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325. They formed the canon of scripture.
Please read these books: Misquoting Jesus, Jesus Interrupted, Studies in the Textual Criticism of the New Testament Christianity in Late Antiquity, The Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew, Lost Scriptures: Books that Did Not MakeIt into the New Testament by Bart D. Ehrman, American New Testament scholar. if you are honest spent some time and research. And Also research Quran with open heart and dont follow what media says about islam.
Please read these books: Misquoting Jesus, Jesus Interrupted, Studies in the Textual Criticism of the New Testament Christianity in Late Antiquity, The Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew, Lost Scriptures: Books that Did Not MakeIt into the New Testament by Bart D. Ehrman, American New Testament scholar. if you are honest spent some time and research. And Also research Quran with open heart and dont follow what media says about islam.
Brethren listen JESUS is not a heavenly holy name the name jesus was never known pre c1600 There is no "j" in Hebrew or Greek no J no jesus get it.... Satan has changed Yahwehs word read scripture. Do some study as YHWH commands us to study diligently daily to see if what we are told is true from his word. some scripture may help
isa 9:16, isa 3:12, isa 52:5, Jer 23:26,27 Jer 11:19, Heb 13:6, Psa 124:6, Neh 8:17, Pro 30:4 Exo 15:3 Psa 68:4
Fail - The 27 books were NOT always accepted by the church. Why make such an assertion? The 27 books chosen were very much the handiwork of a few pivotal 4th. century "bishops". Christianity was by then very different from the "Way" known to early Christians. The trinity was no part of the early "church". Regards
@1Skeptik1 The way you word it is not quite accurate. There were regionally accepted books and some that were more well known. It was more than "a few pivotal" bishops, the majority were in agreement over the majority of the texts. Some strange texts were brought up but had little [often just 1] supporters & could not trace their authorship to Apostolic support [written by an apostle or by "their" disciples]. Trinity was there from the beginning, but there was a move against by one.
@masterkeep The Encyclopedia of Religion Vol. 15 1987 admits: ‘Theologians today are in agreement that the Hebrew Bible does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity.’
The New Catholic Encyclopedia: ‘The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament.’
The Encyclopedia of Religion says: ‘Theologians agree that the New Testament also does not contain an explicit doctrine of the Trinity.’ Regards
@masterkeep Thanks for the reply, I am most interested in facts rather then a conservative/liberal spin. The historians I read claim the debate as to the nature of "Jesus" took place at the Council of Nicea with Athanasius and followers prevailing. Even then the issue was not settled as sentiment shifted upon Constantine's death. (Note: I find conflicting accounts if Constantine was ever Christian?) Some decades later Athanasius chose the 27 books we are familiar with. Regards
@1Skeptik1 The following website has information showing that before 200AD there was a general acceptance as canonical all but 7 books with those 7 mostly accepted - tektonics[dot]org/lp/ntcanon[dot]html
Even after Nicea some argued against certain books, as even to today some do, but that does not change that the Church at large has agreed on this for over 1800 years. I hope this helps.
@masterkeep Greetings and thanks for the reference, I gave it a quick look and bookmarked for future reference, perhaps we can both grow exchanging information. Note: I notice Athanasius was surprisingly missing in the site index, yet Hector Avalos was listed? I found a short relevant article supporting my earlier post, you may informative. ntcanon(DOT)org/Athanasius.(DOT)html Notice the Gospel of John was NOT accepted until the 10th. century. Theology is fascinating! Regards
What was the legitimate "need" to put down and make a list? Why did man need to do this?
So what if someone made a canon that the church didn't agree with? Why is this a legitimate reason to make their own? The question is whether or not God ordained it. Do you have proof that HE did?
You list 5 criteria. What about the most important criteria? What about the need to accept books that Jesus and the apostles considered scripture. The Didache and book of Enoch, for example.
The Catholics have 52 books in the NT? No, they have the same 27 as their Protestant pretenders. They have 7 books following the OT, but 39 and 7 add up to 46, so I don't think that's where the confusion lies. My point is that within the first 15 seconds you made a massive factual error, thereby misinforming everyone who tunes in for information on this topic. If you are such a sloppy and careless commentator, please pull down the video and stay off of YT. The world has enough misinformation...
a few things were not said #1 the oldest writtings were said jesus didnt die on the cross BUT it is true it wasnt part of the power hungery churches. #2 the christans were killed but they slaughter so many more people by the authority of constantine in order to spead christans to unite the empire under one faith and by the way constatine chose what books were ok to read. #3 come on i thought you were educated... the hadith was made 230 years after the koran it is what of might of been said.
@jdwill88 Since Mark is the oldest writing I don't know what you are talking about "oldest writings were said Jesus didn't die on the cross". No Christians were involved in killing under Constantine, though Roman soldiers may have been ordered to do such [from what I have read it wasn't pressed that way]. Constantine didn't choose any of the books seeing how the canon was completed before and Constantine only asked for a list after the fact. I believe you are correct on the Hadith timing.
Its funny how the Romans who were the biggest persecutors of Christians end up being the largest denomination & introducing their pagan beliefs into the faith such as Sunday being the sabath, Trinititarianism & the bounty killer as the author with the most books which contradict the teachings of Jesus.
If these books were from God then why is there still an arguement by Christians about their authenticity @2.53-3.10?
@TheLieDectector You don't understand the teachings of Jesus do you. Trinitarianism exists as far back as Isaiah 9:6. The RCC may say that Sunday is the sabbath but the protestant church [should] understand that the Sabbath is still Saturday but Sunday is the day that the believers began to meet on [as the temple was less busy that day and that is the day of the resurrection]. Peter who was with Jesus from the beginning confirmed Paul's writings as being correct and Scripture so argument done.
@TheLieDectector Isaiah 9:6 is the easiest reference for trinitarianism. The plurality of the godhead exists from Genesis when He says let us make man in our image. and God [elohim] is a proper plural. Wonderful counselor - Holy Spirit, Almighty God - applies to all in this titling, Heavenly Father - God the Father, & Prince of Peace - Jesus [Son of God]. Jesus WILL rule all of mankind according to Revelation [ex. every knee will bow & every tongue confess].
The Quran was standardized as a written codex (114 chapters etc.) 20 years after Muhammad's death and the orthography (how the arabic was written, vowel markings, diacritical marks, etc.) was standardized in 1924. However the recitation of the Quran has remained identical since the prophet Muhammad's lifetime. Jay's been dishonest when he says the Quran was standardized in 1924 the same way the NT books were standardized in the fourth century. They were two completely different issues.
@realtyboy2010 would you trust the guy who led to the death of Jesus and then he hanged himself??? and it is a contradiction to the book of Peter WHO WAS CHOSEN BY JESUS AS THE ROCK OF THE CHURCH, so who would you trust the betrayer who later suicided out of shame or Peter chosen by Jesus Himself?
yes thanks for the video. my problem is the criteria of the books choosen for the bible. what makes some more important and authentic then others? people can choose a verse such as "All scripture if God breathed and just" and make it pertain to the whole bible. But the person writing this did not even know what books would be included in the Bible at the time which would be included at a later date.
you say that the books contradict the fact that jesus was crucified, rose again, etc... but your definition of 'fact' is based on the bible as it was chosen. at that time it wasn't a 'fact', the debate and discourse hinged around this, and so it didn't contradict a 'fact', it contradicted a certain church's teachings. a church whose morality and motives are surely in question given the sponsorship of the roman empire, and following slaughter. there may be other reasons why they weren't included.
The last book that was written was the book of revelation. That was 96AD. That time the bible was already completed as you can see it in the last part of the revelation. So more than that is not a part of the holy book.
James, II Peter, Jude, II and III John, Hebrews and Revelation were not accepted for centuries by the general Christian communities and the Diache was acepted and then later tossed.
With out the Catholic Councils of Hippo and Carthage we would not have a concrete NT Cannon.
NOPE, still an atheist. The idea that God wouldn't just make copies of his message appear on giant indestructable tablets and distribute them all around the world in an instant is what I have a problem with. BUT YOU IDIOTS KEEP PRAYING TO THE SHY!
I dont believe in god but i do believe in an all superior being. The annunaki. They visited us in the past and possibly helped us evolve. Look into it
this man is so right !!! if only muslims put their own qur'aan under the same scrutiny as they put the bible under they would see that the qur'aan is a fraude, made up by a heretic and apostate man. ancient shiite writings have no fatihah and some alternate verses in al fatihah. it is all a load of shit !!!
Islam came to spread lies and death, not truth and peace !!!
The BIBLE has been corrupted by men - so say JESUS's OWN BROTHERS - see video "Paul VS Jesus's family" - part of a documentary by CHRISTIANS shown on the DISCOVERY CHANNEL
Why do you laugh sarcastically when you talk about some important subject like this ? you know that you are not honest and I know your tricks ..the whole Quran was in the hearts of the people when prophet Mohammed died...hellllooooo
many Qurans were burnt after Muhammed. Who cares if somone Memorizes the Quran it is a book of hate and it is not from God so this does not matter at all. The Quran even by itself is no good you need the hadeiths. The book of Allah does not stand on it's own otherwise it is just jibbering nonsence you need the Hadiths to make sence of it.
haha SAME WITH THE BIBLE bud. Quran was written WAY later in the 7th century... The BIBLE was written WAY earlier... go study the history of the World.
The QURAN is in its original form and it was at the time of the Prophet(PBUH). Not only was every verse memorised (as the whole QURAN is today by millions of Muslim hafizes) it written by a team of scribes who kept the official copy verified by Muhammad(PBUH) himself. As it was then the QURAN is recited/read daily by Muslims and commited to memory by millions and each Muslime(including) children know some verses of the QURAN by heart. Hence it can never be altered or destroyed.
Since "the higher criticism" of the 19th century, some historians have largely rejected the gospel of John as a reliable source of information about the historical Jesus.Most commentators regard the work as ((anonymous))??? and date it to 90-100
The Gospel of Luke is a synoptic Gospel, and the third and longest of the four canonical Gospels , The text is internally ((anonymous)))???. One the two oldest surviving manuscripts P75 (circa 200), has the attribution According to Luke
The Gospel of Mark, (((anonymously written))))????? but traditionally ascribed to Mark the Evangelist
The Gospel of Matthew is one of the four canonical gospels in the New Testament,Secular scholarship generally agrees it was written by an (((anonymous non-eyewitness to Jesus' ministry)))?????. The author apparently used the Gospel of Mark as one source and the hypothetical Q document as another
What happened? Why are followers of Christ such a thread, or evil to you?
Tell me, what Islam is, what it means to you to be Muslim, how it changes and transforms your life. Share with me in friendship, and I welcome you, and share with you too.
Have you ever met real devout Christians, talked with them, asked to join you on a Friday in prayer? Have you shared a meal with them? Invited them to dinner?
We can talk about the theory with differing axioms all we want, but we are not theory.
U think im living in the middle-east posting these comments? Im living in a multiracial, multicultural society. I've sat beside christians, buddhists, taoists, hindus, zorostrians for meals. Most of them are ignorant of course.
Islam is more than a religion. Its a way of life. You find peace,tranquility and strength when u are with God as a Muslim. You find yourself going struggling against sins on the sole basis of your love for your Master. U seek His pleasure always since,He is your Creator.
Again, u put assumption in place of reality, I do not believe u to b somewhere in the middle east, since I haven't asked u, I simply don't know.
I'm sad to hear you say these things about ignorance, did nobody ever welcome you as a guest, or vice versa?
Your description of Islam is beautiful, a way of life. I'm glad you found peace, tranquility and strength in God. Can you acknowledge I found these too, in Jesus?
Peace be with you, and may the love of the Lord shine upon you now and forever.
If u had read the reasons of the caravan raid (the Meccans were going to sell away goods which were property of Muhammad's followers), executions and/or murder. (read the details on treachery of each execution.
I myself,am ashamed that Muslims around the world, have turned away from the Prophet's way. In the Prophet's lifetime, a man even urinated in a mosque, but the Prophet forgave him and cleaned the mosque up. Muslims nowadays? They'd have killed him without so much as a blink.
Continue reading it. U will see that that verse u quoted is out of context. If you continue reading it u will come across:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors" - 2:190 or in 5:32 where it says killing a man is like killing the whole of humanity.Saving one is like saving the whole of humanity.
I admit Jesus(pbuh) was a peaceful man when he was on Earth. But if Jesus(pbuh) was/is God, who was he praying to while on earth?
Hi Dark5ith, I know that the Trinity is a hard one to grasp, but it's not human standards, or human logic that define God, he is beyond that. The verses you're referring to, have Jesus talking to the Father. While on earth, he gave up his divine prerogative, but he was still the Son of God.
Can i ask if the trinity is in the bible? I dont see a single verse in the bible tat mentions trinity. Did Jesus(pbuh) claim himself to be God? What did he say in deut 6:4? "Hear O Israel, The Lord,your God is Three"?
No, he said one. I'm not worshipping three God's, that's a common misconception that I'm confronted with often in inter-religious dialogue. Genesis 1:1ff the Hebrew word 'Elohim' used by Moses(is the plural form, not El, not Elah, but Elohim)together with deut 6:4, we see that Elohim means 1 God existing in 3. Elohim is use over 2000 times in the OT. Genesis 1:26; John 1:1-3; Gen 11:7; Isa 6:8; But please realise that I use OT&NT,since I'm Christian.
In that case, when the Queen uses the word "We" to address herself, there are actually multiple beings inside of her? Eg: "We decree..."
Take the example i used: Deut 6:4 - If the trinity concept existed during Jesus's(pbuh) time, what wld he have said here? "Hear O Israel, The Lord, your Gods are one?
Are u following Jesus's(pbuh) teachings or Paul's?
Well, and here we come to the difference of our believes. You wouldn't agree that Paul was an Apostle, I do. The royal plural wasn't used before the bible was written, but after it, they were imitating the Bible. Jesus never used 'Elohim' even once, so no, he wouldn't. It's not Gods, it's God we as Christians worship. A point in the sky, has height, depth, and length, but is still 1 point.
Paul never met Jesus(pbuh)! How do you know he wasnt drunk/sane when he said he "saw" Jesus(pbuh)? Did Jesus(pbuh) tell the Christians, God is 3-in-1? or was it Paul?
The royal plural was always in the Hebrew text. Why do u think they believe in one God instead of 3?
A point in the sky also has altitude, weight,velocity, potential energy,density but is still 1 point. Wats your point? Even if you can produce a mathematical eqn to illustrate this, the eqn is not absolute.
And your understanding about Elohim is misconstrued. In Hebrew, when the meaning of Elohim is understood as the God of Abraham(pbuh), it is semantically known to be a single status- A royal plural. The first words of the bible, Gen 1:1 ->:breshit bara elohim -> Bara here is reflected as a third person SINGULAR masculine perfect. If we were to follow your case that all Elohim means Godssss, then it would be breshit bar'u elohim.
I knew that would come. Elohim is interpreted by Jews as exactly what you said, right. But if you take the OT&NT together in context, you can see God exists as three persons, or in the Greek hypostases, but is one being. God has but a single divine nature.
Yes, you can. But what you are really asking, is if you can have proof that Jesus is divine. I know you embraced Islam, thus by default, you don't acknowledge that He died for our sins. By default, you have to think that the OT&NT are false. Here is the fundamental issue:Do you believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God, or not? But you can know, if you realise you cannot earn heaven with deeds, and pray to God for his grace, in Jesus name. Rev 3:20; Mat 7:8; they show we just need to ask him
No. I did not ask you to prove that Jesus(pbuh) is divine. Becoz i know,u will use all his miracles as acts of divination. If he is divine based on that, wats stopping you from calling Moses(pbuh) divine as well?
I asked you to prove Jesus(pbuh) admitting he IS God. Jesus(pbuh) never died at the cross according to the bible account. Shall i prove it?
I believe in the Gospel of Jesus(pbuh) if it exists in the written form. Not gospels thought up by 12 men.
No, I wouldn't use his miracles, that would be foolish. The priest of Pharao imitated miracles too. John 20:28 (Jesus doesn't deny being God, because God doesn't lie, he reassures faith in him.) Again, you confirm your fundamental denial of the Holy Spirit. I can understand if you never experienced it. Other examples can be found in Titus, Hebrews, Colossians, 1 John, 1 Timothy.
Well he did deny he was God in Matthew 19:16-26. And he did go to great lengths to show there was nothing wrong to refer himself as son of God, as all men are God according to Song of Solomons, which he explained, right before he was stoned by the Jews. He was going to be stoned yet he took the time to explain that. Doesnt that count for something?
He doesn't deny being God. In these verses he shows the man, that only God is good. He shows him, that he needs to follow him, and Jesus shows the man, that his focus, his heart was on his riches, not on God. In verse 26, he says, that no man can gain eternal life by himself, but with God all things are possible. Which Song of Solomon are you referring to?
Sorry, that was Psalms 82:6 not Song of Solomons.
In the verse 26 which u quoted, as a Muslim, I can definitely say we strongly believe this. That no man can gain eternal life by himself and with God all things are possible. However the thin line that separates Muslims and Christians is the divinity assertion of Jesus(pbuh) by the Christians.
However, the point is, that Jesus(pbuh) never admitted he was God. U can say he didnt deny it either. Lets take a closer look at that logic.
When confronted with the question on who is the Messiah, Jesus(pbuh) admitted without question that he was the Messiah. So if he was God, dont u think he wld've also admitted it? If he had mentioned the trinity, dont u think it wld have taken less than 100 years to approve this doctrine?
I am glad that we agree upon the sovereignty of God. This psalm by Asaph calls the judges&rules of Israel "gods" and "children of the Most High". They were called gods because they represented God in judgement. John 10:34-36 records Jesus using this passage to defend his claims to be God. His argument was: If God would call mere people "gods", why was it blasphemous for him, the true Son of God, to declare himself equal with God?(John 10)
If God would call mere people "gods", why was it blasphemous for him, the true Son of God, to declare himself equal with God?(John 10)
See, he said he was the son of God. He never said he was the true son of God. Ask any Jewish Rabbi to translate. "son of God" in Hebrew is liken to the "slave of God". And btw, there is no difference between "son" and "Son" in the Greek texts. Its the translators tat made that distinction.
Well, we could just agree to disagree. Again, it's open to both our books, faiths, experiences and traditions. I understand what you are trying to say, but why then was it so Blasphemous for the Jewish leaders, that he said what he said. Why is Christianity such a bad thing for you? What is said here is very interesting, but what is the underlying issue? Do you want to know why we believe what we believe, or are you looking for potential converts to Islam?
The foundation of your faith is based on Judaism. The god that you believe in is/was a Jew. I would think you would take their interpretation into consideration instead of believing on something concocted by someone else.
Much lies have been propagated abt Islam. I seek to correct these as well as expose Christianity. If christians can point fingers at Islam, why cant i do the same to them?
The foundation of your faith is based on Judaism. The god that you believe in is/was a Jew. I would think you would take their interpretation into consideration instead of believing on something concocted by someone else.
Much lies have been propagated abt Islam. I seek to correct these as well as expose Christianity. If christians can point fingers at Islam, why cant i do the same to them?
oops double-posted. Anyways, abt your qn on why was it so blasphemous, its simple. Jesus(pbuh) has been insulting, treating the Jews very lowly for a long time. Calling them "generation of vipers" among other things. Would you like it someone insulted u or would you LOOOOVE them?
Well, he wasn't talking about all Jews, and yes, those that he addressed used the status quo to take advantage of God beloved chosen people. Can you tell me please where he used that phrase in one of the four Gospels, so I can re-study them. On your second question, I wouldn't like it, but that is my human nature, without God. I would pray to God to give me the love for them, like Stephen. Jesus taught us to love our enemies, and that's what I follow.
Abt my second qn: U said that WITHOUT faith, u wouldnt like it, correct? So wat are the Jews to u? Pple without the correct faith, correct? Therefore, simply put, the Jews hated Jesus(pbuh) for the fact that he had insulted them.
I never said that, I said God, and you just dont want to listen, to talk, you want to be right. Its not about faith, it's about God. The Jews worship the same God as I do, and so do you. The difference is, I actually don't have a religion, I have a relationship with God, because he reached out to us all, every human being, saying 'I love you', and people who don't listen don't realise His love.
From the book of Genesis onwards, he didn't want to establish a religion, but a relationship with us.
Im not worshipping what u are worshipping and u arent worshipping what im worshipping. Tat is to say i dont believe in the god that u do and vice versa. If u dont have a religion, wat do u call christianity then? Wasnt Jesus(pbuh) a Jew? Part of A religion?
On the contrary, God alwez says to establish a covenant with His creations in the bible. Even in Genesis.
Again, you are entitled 2 your opinion my friend. I see you are sincere, & that is all there is to it. Again, I need to ask you, why you do what you do?
If you type the words"real messiah"into google, you will see the basis, 1st link.
Christianity is the term given to all who profess 2 follow Christ Jesus. That is 2 say, not all who profess actually do belong 2 the body of Christ, but I presume that is the case in Islam as well, people not living their faith. God is the judge here, not us.
And again i reiterate: To correct misconceptions as well as to expose Christianity since Christianity has done much to "expose" Islam; Although, i have to admit, they have not done a good job at it.
I follow Jesus(pbuh) but that doesnt make me a Christian. A more detailed description would be someone who believes Jesus(pbuh) is God and follows his teachings.
Yes God is The Judge. However, not everything is fed to us. Sometimes we have to explore by ourselves to find the right path.
Oh and btw, Muslims do believe that Jesus(pbuh) was/is the Messiah. No question there. What they do qn is why Christians are calling Jesus(pbuh) god when he NEVER claimed to be God like how he claimed to be the Messiah. He plainly admitted that he was the Messiah. If u can find anywhere in the bible that clearly shows him admitting in the same way he did wen he admitted he was the Messiah, that he was God, i'd baptise myself right now.
From your point of view, he never did, but he explicitly said "Before Abraham was, I am." You base your faith on the Bible, but then only chose the parts that fit your view. I say this, because its fact, nothing more
The argument that the bible was falsified, simply doesn't work, if Christianity is a great world religion, it is not founded on falsehood, lies and forgeries.
A better way for us would be to look at the use and mis-use both our scriptures, in respect and friendship.
In the Greek Septuagint (the GREEK OT), the word you quoted, "I am" is egw eimi in Greek. The "I am" used in Exodus 3:14 is "Ho Oon". If Jesus(pbuh) is God because of this, then i guess the blind beggar in John 9:9 is one too.
If Jesus(pbuh) is God because he said he pre-existed before Abraham(pbuh), then i guess Jeremiah is also God then because he pre-existed:Jeremiah 1:5.
You are presenting the same arguments over and over, instead of a dialogue, you are out to 'win' regardless of your fellow humans. We read the context, you just don't want to. I told you that we have solid reason to believe what we believe. Christianity does not contradict Judaism, if you'd have look up the phrase I gave you in google(real messiah), you could research that for yourself. Interestingly, you base your arguments on the bible, but don't believe it to be accurate.
Even Fyodor Dostoyevsky (who believed that if God existed he was unjust and immoral) said: "Even those who have renounced Christianity and attack it, in their inmost being still follow the Christian ideal, for hitherto neither their subtlety nor the ardour of their hearts has been able to create a higher ideal of man and of virtue than the ideal given by Christ of old."
No realy, you do , talk like him use the same physical movements while talking ...are you two related ? I mean both of you spread propaganda....maybe you're related too ?
So when you talk about the Bible , why new testament ? Old one wasn't good enough? ...kind of like an old car with a carburator...ahhhh let's add fuel injection .... LoL
the Apocrypa was in the Greek LXX. New testament quotes from the LXX. Do protestants find it kind of strange that they get their old testament canon from the Council of Jamnia
One thing is certain- the Quranic version of the life of Jesus has no link whatever to the apostles or any other eyewitness and it is a mystery why Moslems credit it with any authority.
The evidence for the authencity of the NT, on the other hand, is magnitudes greater than for any other ancient writing and there is every reason to believe the specific claims of the authors when they said they were writing eyewitness accounts (see eg Luke 1:1-4 & John 21:24)
Wow, you sound ignorant. None of the gospels were written by the apostles! And the oldest fragment of a gospel is a piece of 'John' that dates back to 150 AD. Most of the gospel writings we have are dated from 200 to 400 AD. And anyhow, why would you trust a late 4th-century church to know which writings to accept? There was so much bickering, bloodshed and power-struggles back then and the final decisions always ended up being taken by Roman Emperors (who often changed their minds).
Actually, I was referring to the surviving manuscript dates (which are not disputed), not the estimated dates of the original first drafts (which are somewhat). The synoptic gospels were probably first written between 70 AD (Mark) and 125 AD (Matt, Luke, John), but no one knows what those original drafts may have looked like. We only have copies of copies of copies, and we know for sure that they were changed repeatedly -- sometimes purely by accident, sometimes maliciously. (CONT...)
(...CONT) The last few chapters of Mark (the Easter story no less) were clearly added hundreds of years later. They exist in not one of the 5,000+ Greek manuscripts we now have. They only show up for the first time in Latin. If you're interested, you should read some of the later books by Bart Ehrmann and the late Bruce Metzger (these are/were the greatest textual scholars of today). A great starting point (and easy read) would be "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrmann.
You get no argument from me about the ending in Mark but I'm not sure that argument is strong enough to prove that the Gospels were distorted. 1 Cointhians 15:3-8 predates Mark for example.
I'll check out Ehrmans book. Thank you for the recommending it to me. =)
Total BS. The early church didn't accept all the books. Early Christians couldn't agree on anything. Even the earliest Christian apoligists, like Marcus Minucius, seemed to know nothing of the Gospels. Many early bishops totally denounced Paul's writings and some considered them heretical. It took rule of the sword to get people in agreement!
The Quran states that if you have sex with a goat you must marry the goat and give it a dowry. It is haram to have sex with a lamb as it is too young. Although moohamed was a pedophile,it was accepted that he could have sex with underage animals.
Not all those books are gnostic, the apocalypse of peter has to versions and the Gospel of Thomas does not say anything about the resurrection it is 100 sayings of Jesus and many Gnostic's believe Jesus as the resurrection Saviour so please get your fact straight.
The quran is at a job interview. The boss asks, "Do you have references?" quran replies, "Torah and Injil, call them." So the boss calls Torah, who replies, "I've never heard of him." Confused, the boss calls Injil, who says, "I know him; but he is a liar and is actually from Satan, the devil, don't believe him." Pressed by the boss, the quran defends "they are liars." So the boss reasons: "if they are liars, why do you use them for references unless you are insane, or desperate?"
There are many many books of the bible that are mentioned in the bible canon, but do not exist as part of the bible canon. These are considered lost even by Christians.
Recently, the Gospel of Judas was rediscovered and translated (2006).
Regarding language is it not true that the Honorable Koran is considered best understood in Arabic. Islam can calm to be a universal Abrahamic religion but it's not open to all in regard to adaptation to greek or western understanding. The adherents to Islam must submit under the sword. Jesus posits that those who live by the sword will die by the sword.
Ah. Wrong again. If Islam MUST use the sword to increase the number of adherents, explain to me, which Muslim army went to spread the sword with the country of Indonesia(coincidentally, having the <b>largest</b> Muslim population in the world).
Explain which muslim army went to conquer the east coast of africa. Explain to me, how Islam, being the lords of Arabia for 1400+ years, has MILLIONS of coptic christians(christians by generation) in it?
Ah. Wrong again as in your superiority is wrong. I will say that slavery is wrong and Shahaadah is slavery. Perhaps the redemptive love of our Creator is something that is wrong to you.
Islam is good at submission and collecting jazia tax for the underclass that does not join in the enslavement to the five pillars.
So i guess, when a foreign force conquers a territory, the territory is allowed free reign? When America invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, wasnt democracy installed? So why find it abnormal when Islam did it 1400 years ago?
Do i smell a hint of hypocrisy here...*sniff*sniff* oh damn...it reeks all the way over here
Jay, don't be cowed by this kind of character assasination - attacking someone's age ??? Being older can be a good thing - with it knowledge and wisdom..... Keep up the good work Brother Jay - In Christ's Name.
Ha ha, gumpydood, there sure as hell are easier ways to make money than to compile a book that teaches man to love his neighbor, turn the other cheek and strive for peace. Either these church doctors we're awful business men, or they believed in the message. Do you?
The Bible,Koran,and other holy books were written by people..NOT BY GOD..Do a search on Bible or Koran contradictions and see what you get. I DARE YOU.. BOTH.. are loaded with contradictions.
Mariam (mother of Jesus) is called the sister of harun (aaron) and daughter of imran. In the Bible Mariam is the sister of aaraon and Moses,daughter of Amran but born hundreds of years before Jesus.
sperm does not come from between the ribs and backbones... surah 86:5-7 'So let man consider from what he is created. He is created from a gushing fluid That issued from between the loins and ribs'
Should you wait till a girl reaches puberty before marrying them? Yes S. 4:6 'And try orphans (as regards their intelligence) until they reach the age of marriage' No 65:4 "And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah is three months likewise, except in case of death]"
imterestingly in 5th century BC Hippocrates taught that semen comes from all the fluid in the body, diffusing from the brain into the spinal marrow, before passing through the kidneys and via the testicles into the penis...of course he was WRONG too
"For God So Loved The World, That He Gave His Only Begotten Son, That Whosoever Believes In Him Shall Not Perish But Have Everlasting Life"- John 3:16
Bullshit. The five criterion were this. . . 1}can we make money from this set of books 2}can we make money from this set of books 3} can we make money from this set of books and 5} can we get power from this set of books. Catholic bullshit.
Blessed is the Son of the almighty Living God which is JESUS, my soon coming King, and "every kneel shall bow and every tongue shall confess JESUS CHRIST IS LORD", Amen, case closed, i cant wait until that glorius day,
It seems that the method used in making selection of manuscripts is 'consesus' and 'democratically' based approach. This is absolutely wrong because absolute truths are not a product of human thinking. That is why you have problems in giving explanation on either 27 or 50 books to select. I my self feel confidence that not a single book accepted by the churches is genuine and the existing books are merely novels of short stories.
Are we descendants of a "CLONED" human race? Discover the "ORIGINAL VERSION of Genesis (versus the 'King James' SUBSTITUTE)" as they are kept in the "Vatican Vault." What really happened "In the Beginning" will "BLOW YOUR MIND!" [click "300 Vatican-Are You A Clone?" link]
my mistake, heli did have kids , to simply put it, about the 2 fathers of joseph, the 1 in luke is jesus lineage through mary, heli is the father of mary. the translator of the english bible put the commas in the wrong place of that verse. when u fix the commas it really say: jesus began to be about 30 of age,(being as was the supposed the son of joseph) which was the son of hali. after fixing the commas it makes sence.
I"m have been reading codices from the Nag Hammadi, I was raised baptist, as I got older I started watching the mounting evidence of ufo's and aliens, but never questioned my Christian faith, when I read the text from the Nag Hammadi it all made sense to me. That the two can be true and are explained. I wanted to know your thoughts on the Nag Hammadi library.
PfanderFilms. This is not out my head but from a lot of readings. Almighty created from fire Satan=Beelzebub=Goethe=call it God. By all means Satan mated earthly woman & created fatherless child called Jesus. Jews indorsed it as the chosen one as Messiah & Christened these Babylonian/Phoenician Satanic Verses into Western faith manual called KING JAMES BIBLE. Da Vinci Code hmm. It is not hard to find it out. I have 27 tangible accounts support that both Jesus & bible are false in-fact. Peace.
that is the most hilarious thing i have ever seen...
if god created satan and was all powerful and knowing enough to allow him to create jesus and the faith that is christianity then how can you speak out against that act of your lord?
if your going to insult another religion and are unable to do so without insulting your own god then perhaps you need to re-evaluate your perspective.
"FOR THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN,THE FATHER,THE WORD,AND THE HOLY GHOST:and these three are one"(1st Epistle of Jhon 5:7-AV)this key-stone of the Christian faith has expunged in the(RVS)without even a explanation But for the 1499 remaining language group of the world,the fraud remains, we Muslims congratulate the who have been honest enough to eliminate another (LIE)from the English(RVS)bibel,thus bringing their Holy Book yet another step closer to the teachings of Islam.
I have been reading and watching your video blog for quite some time Almost every single question you have raised been answered one way or the other. I know now you are not interested in any truth, Reality let alone in Islam OR for that matter even in Christianity. You have this blog going about which you brag to your Christian friends at Sunday church ONLY this matters to you. Continuie...
Right from the very beginnings of the Gospels, they're full of inconsistencies. Look at the genealogies. But thanks for a nice retarded little bit of propaganda against Gnostics and Muslims.
that's just completely wrong, plain wrong, any one case see if they turn to Matthew 1 v 1-16 and Luke 3 v 23-28 respectively. They both go through Joseph? I don't understand why you wrote this, evidently you HAVE TO lie in order to discredit the word of God.
Prove that it's a lie then. All u give are opinions. Jewish ppl trace their roots thru the fathers. That's why they're mentioned according to the male & very few women are mentioned yet some are.
Jewish lineage always credits the father, despite the fact that the mothers lineage is being used. Male dominant mindest even though some women are mentioned. Either way both details are correct.
the levirate law among the Jews, prescribes that when a man dies childless his widow "shall not marry to another; but his brother shall take her, and raise up seed for his brother" (Deuteronomy 25:5-6). The child, therefore, of the second marriage is legally the child of the first husband. heli died with out kids,
Wouldn't u think that if God intended for gospel of barnabas, etc, to be in His book it would be there? Obviously by some miraculous event, the book called the KJB is what was intended even if ppl don't see the providence of God in it.
Hey iqraproductions, Not another video!!! You are always living off of Jay's videos...but while his are interesting and factual, yours are BORING and ineffectual. Do we have to put up with you yet again?!
Dear Jay please will you continue each day these lessons i am waiting for all your lessons and am learning a lot from you I am you most ardent respectful person here a christian and zionist
The bottom line is there is much more to dispute in Islam and it's book than in the Bible. Islam rewrites far more history and they need to as they know they are in trouble otherwise. The strident, angry nature of the defenders of Islam is all the proof you need to see that this is so.
on a lighter note (lol) its acceptable to BURN the Quran than it is to flush it down the toilet. Its islamic tradition! Uthman was famous for destroying conflicting versions of his quran.
And christians are famous for the inability to COPY a simple manuscript. Instead the thousands are all different and you pass it off as "honesty". Thats hypocritical in my opinion. Also rusty how is there much more to dispute? Every muslim today follows the exact same book, unlike the polytheists of christianity
WRONG!!! we got all the manuscripts perfectly copied. prove to us that we got it all wrong? you assume that we have to use the language of the past? Translational fallacy is your excuse we're still right and we have physical evidence and not EXCUSES so you fail sir you fail miserably with your accusations. we still have our manuscripts were are yours? BURNED GONE like a fucking hypocrit.
We dont need to prove anything. U guys did it for us becoz the sheer number of your different versions of bibles speaks volumes abt the inability of christians to come up with an accurate bible. Lets not foget the constant revision of the bible every few years becoz of the discovery of 'ancient' manuscripts.
we do not have sheer numbers of different Bibles, we have different Compilations. we didnt CHANGE the books. while the Quran have VERSES that are changed, and the pronounciations being changed was just one of MANY differences. Grammatical ERRORS, Inacuraccies, overwhelming contradictions. The problems of your Quran is Much much worst.
Wat? Quran verses have changed?? Haha seriously dude. At least provide proof. U juz rattle on and on but where is the proof? Contradictions? Inaccuracies?
U didnt change the books? I'll give u just ONE example:
1 John 5:7-9 -> Its an interpolation.
It wasnt in any ancient manuscripts, yet they ADDED it in. I got many more examples if u want. And now they changed it again recently!! To blood, water and the Holy spirit.
we have proven that there has been no change. we have compaired the Dead sea scrolls (thanks to a muslim sheppard who found them) and compaired all our translations to them and all the books contained in ALL the bibles of Every denominations did not show any discremency in Translation in Every Different Published Years. SO wheres your proof?
LoL did u do a research on that ONE verse i quoted u? The verse : 1 John 5:7-9. Did u? Its an interpolation. ITS NOT EVEN IN THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS. THERE IS YOUR PROOF. If dats not called a change, i wonder wat is? And dats only ONE. U want more???
Yes resort to the "f" word that really helps your credibility. You got 1 thing right though, you have physical evidence that your ancestors could produde something like 24000 manuscripts that all conflict. Bravo to you sir.
The First Council of Nicaea was a council of Christian bishops today known as the catholic (universal) Church. They convened in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day İznik in Turkey) by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325. They formed the canon of scripture.
If you reject this fact your just ignorant!
MrYouthTruth 4 weeks ago
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Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 6 months ago
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Please read these books: Misquoting Jesus, Jesus Interrupted, Studies in the Textual Criticism of the New Testament Christianity in Late Antiquity, The Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew, Lost Scriptures: Books that Did Not MakeIt into the New Testament by Bart D. Ehrman, American New Testament scholar. if you are honest spent some time and research. And Also research Quran with open heart and dont follow what media says about islam.
shovon100 8 months ago
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Please read these books: Misquoting Jesus, Jesus Interrupted, Studies in the Textual Criticism of the New Testament Christianity in Late Antiquity, The Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew, Lost Scriptures: Books that Did Not MakeIt into the New Testament by Bart D. Ehrman, American New Testament scholar. if you are honest spent some time and research. And Also research Quran with open heart and dont follow what media says about islam.
shovon100 8 months ago
Brethren listen JESUS is not a heavenly holy name the name jesus was never known pre c1600 There is no "j" in Hebrew or Greek no J no jesus get it.... Satan has changed Yahwehs word read scripture. Do some study as YHWH commands us to study diligently daily to see if what we are told is true from his word. some scripture may help
isa 9:16, isa 3:12, isa 52:5, Jer 23:26,27 Jer 11:19, Heb 13:6, Psa 124:6, Neh 8:17, Pro 30:4 Exo 15:3 Psa 68:4
may Yah bless you
murrayoflight 11 months ago
@murrayoflight I wouldn't worry too much. Jesus knows when people are praying in his name even if he was called Mickey Mouse..................
irishxxkelt 7 months ago
good luck with reading your book(s) lol ;)
turkmuslim4ever 1 year ago
Fail - The 27 books were NOT always accepted by the church. Why make such an assertion? The 27 books chosen were very much the handiwork of a few pivotal 4th. century "bishops". Christianity was by then very different from the "Way" known to early Christians. The trinity was no part of the early "church". Regards
1Skeptik1 1 year ago
@1Skeptik1 The way you word it is not quite accurate. There were regionally accepted books and some that were more well known. It was more than "a few pivotal" bishops, the majority were in agreement over the majority of the texts. Some strange texts were brought up but had little [often just 1] supporters & could not trace their authorship to Apostolic support [written by an apostle or by "their" disciples]. Trinity was there from the beginning, but there was a move against by one.
masterkeep 1 year ago
@masterkeep The Encyclopedia of Religion Vol. 15 1987 admits: ‘Theologians today are in agreement that the Hebrew Bible does not contain a doctrine of the Trinity.’
The New Catholic Encyclopedia: ‘The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is not taught in the Old Testament.’
The Encyclopedia of Religion says: ‘Theologians agree that the New Testament also does not contain an explicit doctrine of the Trinity.’ Regards
1Skeptik1 1 year ago
@1Skeptik1 You are pulling from liberal sources for your information. I will try to find you better information later.
masterkeep 1 year ago
@masterkeep Thanks for the reply, I am most interested in facts rather then a conservative/liberal spin. The historians I read claim the debate as to the nature of "Jesus" took place at the Council of Nicea with Athanasius and followers prevailing. Even then the issue was not settled as sentiment shifted upon Constantine's death. (Note: I find conflicting accounts if Constantine was ever Christian?) Some decades later Athanasius chose the 27 books we are familiar with. Regards
1Skeptik1 1 year ago
@1Skeptik1 The following website has information showing that before 200AD there was a general acceptance as canonical all but 7 books with those 7 mostly accepted - tektonics[dot]org/lp/ntcanon[dot]html
Even after Nicea some argued against certain books, as even to today some do, but that does not change that the Church at large has agreed on this for over 1800 years. I hope this helps.
masterkeep 1 year ago
@masterkeep Greetings and thanks for the reference, I gave it a quick look and bookmarked for future reference, perhaps we can both grow exchanging information. Note: I notice Athanasius was surprisingly missing in the site index, yet Hector Avalos was listed? I found a short relevant article supporting my earlier post, you may informative. ntcanon(DOT)org/Athanasius.(DOT)html Notice the Gospel of John was NOT accepted until the 10th. century. Theology is fascinating! Regards
1Skeptik1 1 year ago
What was the legitimate "need" to put down and make a list? Why did man need to do this?
So what if someone made a canon that the church didn't agree with? Why is this a legitimate reason to make their own? The question is whether or not God ordained it. Do you have proof that HE did?
You list 5 criteria. What about the most important criteria? What about the need to accept books that Jesus and the apostles considered scripture. The Didache and book of Enoch, for example.
TrustinJC 1 year ago
The Catholics have 52 books in the NT? No, they have the same 27 as their Protestant pretenders. They have 7 books following the OT, but 39 and 7 add up to 46, so I don't think that's where the confusion lies. My point is that within the first 15 seconds you made a massive factual error, thereby misinforming everyone who tunes in for information on this topic. If you are such a sloppy and careless commentator, please pull down the video and stay off of YT. The world has enough misinformation...
TeliVision1000 1 year ago
a few things were not said #1 the oldest writtings were said jesus didnt die on the cross BUT it is true it wasnt part of the power hungery churches. #2 the christans were killed but they slaughter so many more people by the authority of constantine in order to spead christans to unite the empire under one faith and by the way constatine chose what books were ok to read. #3 come on i thought you were educated... the hadith was made 230 years after the koran it is what of might of been said.
jdwill88 1 year ago
@jdwill88 Since Mark is the oldest writing I don't know what you are talking about "oldest writings were said Jesus didn't die on the cross". No Christians were involved in killing under Constantine, though Roman soldiers may have been ordered to do such [from what I have read it wasn't pressed that way]. Constantine didn't choose any of the books seeing how the canon was completed before and Constantine only asked for a list after the fact. I believe you are correct on the Hadith timing.
masterkeep 1 year ago
Its funny how the Romans who were the biggest persecutors of Christians end up being the largest denomination & introducing their pagan beliefs into the faith such as Sunday being the sabath, Trinititarianism & the bounty killer as the author with the most books which contradict the teachings of Jesus.
If these books were from God then why is there still an arguement by Christians about their authenticity @2.53-3.10?
TheLieDectector 1 year ago
@TheLieDectector You don't understand the teachings of Jesus do you. Trinitarianism exists as far back as Isaiah 9:6. The RCC may say that Sunday is the sabbath but the protestant church [should] understand that the Sabbath is still Saturday but Sunday is the day that the believers began to meet on [as the temple was less busy that day and that is the day of the resurrection]. Peter who was with Jesus from the beginning confirmed Paul's writings as being correct and Scripture so argument done.
masterkeep 1 year ago
@masterkeep
In ref to Isiah 9:6
Please tell me when Jesus formed a government?
When has Jesus ever been refered to as the everlasting Father?
There is no trinity there, in fact there are 4 titles given so you'd be better of arguing for a quartet.
That verse fits like a cheap suit.
So you say 'Trinitarianism exists as far back as Isaiah 9:6' so what did they believe in before that?
TheLieDectector 1 year ago
@TheLieDectector Isaiah 9:6 is the easiest reference for trinitarianism. The plurality of the godhead exists from Genesis when He says let us make man in our image. and God [elohim] is a proper plural. Wonderful counselor - Holy Spirit, Almighty God - applies to all in this titling, Heavenly Father - God the Father, & Prince of Peace - Jesus [Son of God]. Jesus WILL rule all of mankind according to Revelation [ex. every knee will bow & every tongue confess].
masterkeep 1 year ago
The topic is, Who Chose the books of the New Testament ?
Answer, It was nothing to do with God!
The 5 criterior that he lists proves this.
TheLieDectector 1 year ago
Islam is lost now...
rocha333 1 year ago
The Preaching of Peter was first century.
smartwarlord 1 year ago
The Quran was standardized as a written codex (114 chapters etc.) 20 years after Muhammad's death and the orthography (how the arabic was written, vowel markings, diacritical marks, etc.) was standardized in 1924. However the recitation of the Quran has remained identical since the prophet Muhammad's lifetime. Jay's been dishonest when he says the Quran was standardized in 1924 the same way the NT books were standardized in the fourth century. They were two completely different issues.
BigSal51 1 year ago
you should learn about the God Horus - Egyptian God - Jesus is similar to him -
vaea46 2 years ago
I believe there is a book of Judas which of course was rejected which gives a differernt view of Judas of course.
realtyboy2010 2 years ago
@realtyboy2010 would you trust the guy who led to the death of Jesus and then he hanged himself??? and it is a contradiction to the book of Peter WHO WAS CHOSEN BY JESUS AS THE ROCK OF THE CHURCH, so who would you trust the betrayer who later suicided out of shame or Peter chosen by Jesus Himself?
6MemoryOfForever9 1 year ago
yes thanks for the video. my problem is the criteria of the books choosen for the bible. what makes some more important and authentic then others? people can choose a verse such as "All scripture if God breathed and just" and make it pertain to the whole bible. But the person writing this did not even know what books would be included in the Bible at the time which would be included at a later date.
realtyboy2010 2 years ago
Very good brother!
Blessedlove2 2 years ago 2
you say that the books contradict the fact that jesus was crucified, rose again, etc... but your definition of 'fact' is based on the bible as it was chosen. at that time it wasn't a 'fact', the debate and discourse hinged around this, and so it didn't contradict a 'fact', it contradicted a certain church's teachings. a church whose morality and motives are surely in question given the sponsorship of the roman empire, and following slaughter. there may be other reasons why they weren't included.
roymondously 2 years ago
The last book that was written was the book of revelation. That was 96AD. That time the bible was already completed as you can see it in the last part of the revelation. So more than that is not a part of the holy book.
Lushikatomimo 2 years ago
James, II Peter, Jude, II and III John, Hebrews and Revelation were not accepted for centuries by the general Christian communities and the Diache was acepted and then later tossed.
With out the Catholic Councils of Hippo and Carthage we would not have a concrete NT Cannon.
Bigbadben7 2 years ago
NOPE, still an atheist. The idea that God wouldn't just make copies of his message appear on giant indestructable tablets and distribute them all around the world in an instant is what I have a problem with. BUT YOU IDIOTS KEEP PRAYING TO THE SHY!
Shhhhhhhhh69 3 years ago
I dont believe in god but i do believe in an all superior being. The annunaki. They visited us in the past and possibly helped us evolve. Look into it
PreCurSeD 2 years ago
Very Mature for a "Open Minded, Free thinker".
Thank You for the Compliment.
TheSoundKage 2 years ago
this man is so right !!! if only muslims put their own qur'aan under the same scrutiny as they put the bible under they would see that the qur'aan is a fraude, made up by a heretic and apostate man. ancient shiite writings have no fatihah and some alternate verses in al fatihah. it is all a load of shit !!!
Islam came to spread lies and death, not truth and peace !!!
2112600 3 years ago
The BIBLE has been corrupted by men - so say JESUS's OWN BROTHERS - see video "Paul VS Jesus's family" - part of a documentary by CHRISTIANS shown on the DISCOVERY CHANNEL
JudgeD007 3 years ago
watch my video
Bible vs trinity
and decide for your self what is true or false
peace
mchin7cm 3 years ago
Jay, now go watch on YouTube
"Banned from the Bible"
and see how many books have been banned. What a book of God it is?
good going
VAboi123 3 years ago
he anwered this right away whitejewel.
snappa52 3 years ago
Why do you laugh sarcastically when you talk about some important subject like this ? you know that you are not honest and I know your tricks ..the whole Quran was in the hearts of the people when prophet Mohammed died...hellllooooo
rozadabia3 3 years ago
Quran is memorized by heart..and recited ...even if you burn all quran books today ,,still it wouldn't be lost..you are really confused
rozadabia3 3 years ago
many Qurans were burnt after Muhammed. Who cares if somone Memorizes the Quran it is a book of hate and it is not from God so this does not matter at all. The Quran even by itself is no good you need the hadeiths. The book of Allah does not stand on it's own otherwise it is just jibbering nonsence you need the Hadiths to make sence of it.
james48890743 3 years ago
Bring your proof if you are truthful.
peace
mchin7cm 3 years ago
rozadabia3, how does this fall under the textual criticism that the Muslims hold the bible to? wouldnt it, in all fairness, apply to both books?
snappa52 3 years ago
haha SAME WITH THE BIBLE bud. Quran was written WAY later in the 7th century... The BIBLE was written WAY earlier... go study the history of the World.
KoreanEugene 3 years ago
If we apply the same stupid rules then Torah was written much earlier than the 4 Gospels which were written by people whom no one knows...right?
rozadabia3 3 years ago
The QURAN is in its original form and it was at the time of the Prophet(PBUH). Not only was every verse memorised (as the whole QURAN is today by millions of Muslim hafizes) it written by a team of scribes who kept the official copy verified by Muhammad(PBUH) himself. As it was then the QURAN is recited/read daily by Muslims and commited to memory by millions and each Muslime(including) children know some verses of the QURAN by heart. Hence it can never be altered or destroyed.
JudgeD007 3 years ago
Gospel of John
Since "the higher criticism" of the 19th century, some historians have largely rejected the gospel of John as a reliable source of information about the historical Jesus.Most commentators regard the work as ((anonymous))??? and date it to 90-100
rozadabia3 3 years ago
The Gospel of Luke is a synoptic Gospel, and the third and longest of the four canonical Gospels , The text is internally ((anonymous)))???. One the two oldest surviving manuscripts P75 (circa 200), has the attribution According to Luke
rozadabia3 3 years ago
READ WHAT CHRISTIAN SCHOLARS SAY:
The Gospel of Mark, (((anonymously written))))????? but traditionally ascribed to Mark the Evangelist
The Gospel of Matthew is one of the four canonical gospels in the New Testament,Secular scholarship generally agrees it was written by an (((anonymous non-eyewitness to Jesus' ministry)))?????. The author apparently used the Gospel of Mark as one source and the hypothetical Q document as another
rozadabia3 3 years ago
These scholars are all secular and Jesus seminar types they are not even Christian really.
james48890743 3 years ago
Thank you very much, but could you reply to this comment with some sources please? (I need it for a report!)
AhazAlford 3 years ago
What happened? Why are followers of Christ such a thread, or evil to you?
Tell me, what Islam is, what it means to you to be Muslim, how it changes and transforms your life. Share with me in friendship, and I welcome you, and share with you too.
Have you ever met real devout Christians, talked with them, asked to join you on a Friday in prayer? Have you shared a meal with them? Invited them to dinner?
We can talk about the theory with differing axioms all we want, but we are not theory.
faviomasulli 3 years ago 2
U think im living in the middle-east posting these comments? Im living in a multiracial, multicultural society. I've sat beside christians, buddhists, taoists, hindus, zorostrians for meals. Most of them are ignorant of course.
Islam is more than a religion. Its a way of life. You find peace,tranquility and strength when u are with God as a Muslim. You find yourself going struggling against sins on the sole basis of your love for your Master. U seek His pleasure always since,He is your Creator.
Dark5ith 3 years ago
Again, u put assumption in place of reality, I do not believe u to b somewhere in the middle east, since I haven't asked u, I simply don't know.
I'm sad to hear you say these things about ignorance, did nobody ever welcome you as a guest, or vice versa?
Your description of Islam is beautiful, a way of life. I'm glad you found peace, tranquility and strength in God. Can you acknowledge I found these too, in Jesus?
Peace be with you, and may the love of the Lord shine upon you now and forever.
faviomasulli 3 years ago
If u had read the reasons of the caravan raid (the Meccans were going to sell away goods which were property of Muhammad's followers), executions and/or murder. (read the details on treachery of each execution.
I myself,am ashamed that Muslims around the world, have turned away from the Prophet's way. In the Prophet's lifetime, a man even urinated in a mosque, but the Prophet forgave him and cleaned the mosque up. Muslims nowadays? They'd have killed him without so much as a blink.
Dark5ith 3 years ago
Continue reading it. U will see that that verse u quoted is out of context. If you continue reading it u will come across:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loves not transgressors" - 2:190 or in 5:32 where it says killing a man is like killing the whole of humanity.Saving one is like saving the whole of humanity.
I admit Jesus(pbuh) was a peaceful man when he was on Earth. But if Jesus(pbuh) was/is God, who was he praying to while on earth?
Dark5ith 3 years ago
Hi Dark5ith, I know that the Trinity is a hard one to grasp, but it's not human standards, or human logic that define God, he is beyond that. The verses you're referring to, have Jesus talking to the Father. While on earth, he gave up his divine prerogative, but he was still the Son of God.
faviomasulli 3 years ago
Can i ask if the trinity is in the bible? I dont see a single verse in the bible tat mentions trinity. Did Jesus(pbuh) claim himself to be God? What did he say in deut 6:4? "Hear O Israel, The Lord,your God is Three"?
Dark5ith 3 years ago
No, he said one. I'm not worshipping three God's, that's a common misconception that I'm confronted with often in inter-religious dialogue. Genesis 1:1ff the Hebrew word 'Elohim' used by Moses(is the plural form, not El, not Elah, but Elohim)together with deut 6:4, we see that Elohim means 1 God existing in 3. Elohim is use over 2000 times in the OT. Genesis 1:26; John 1:1-3; Gen 11:7; Isa 6:8; But please realise that I use OT&NT,since I'm Christian.
faviomasulli 3 years ago
In that case, when the Queen uses the word "We" to address herself, there are actually multiple beings inside of her? Eg: "We decree..."
Take the example i used: Deut 6:4 - If the trinity concept existed during Jesus's(pbuh) time, what wld he have said here? "Hear O Israel, The Lord, your Gods are one?
Are u following Jesus's(pbuh) teachings or Paul's?
Dark5ith 3 years ago
Well, and here we come to the difference of our believes. You wouldn't agree that Paul was an Apostle, I do. The royal plural wasn't used before the bible was written, but after it, they were imitating the Bible. Jesus never used 'Elohim' even once, so no, he wouldn't. It's not Gods, it's God we as Christians worship. A point in the sky, has height, depth, and length, but is still 1 point.
faviomasulli 3 years ago
Paul never met Jesus(pbuh)! How do you know he wasnt drunk/sane when he said he "saw" Jesus(pbuh)? Did Jesus(pbuh) tell the Christians, God is 3-in-1? or was it Paul?
The royal plural was always in the Hebrew text. Why do u think they believe in one God instead of 3?
A point in the sky also has altitude, weight,velocity, potential energy,density but is still 1 point. Wats your point? Even if you can produce a mathematical eqn to illustrate this, the eqn is not absolute.
Dark5ith 3 years ago
And your understanding about Elohim is misconstrued. In Hebrew, when the meaning of Elohim is understood as the God of Abraham(pbuh), it is semantically known to be a single status- A royal plural. The first words of the bible, Gen 1:1 ->:breshit bara elohim -> Bara here is reflected as a third person SINGULAR masculine perfect. If we were to follow your case that all Elohim means Godssss, then it would be breshit bar'u elohim.
Dark5ith 3 years ago
I knew that would come. Elohim is interpreted by Jews as exactly what you said, right. But if you take the OT&NT together in context, you can see God exists as three persons, or in the Greek hypostases, but is one being. God has but a single divine nature.
faviomasulli 3 years ago
Can i have the evidence to prove that God exists in three persons?
Dark5ith 3 years ago
Yes, you can. But what you are really asking, is if you can have proof that Jesus is divine. I know you embraced Islam, thus by default, you don't acknowledge that He died for our sins. By default, you have to think that the OT&NT are false. Here is the fundamental issue:Do you believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God, or not? But you can know, if you realise you cannot earn heaven with deeds, and pray to God for his grace, in Jesus name. Rev 3:20; Mat 7:8; they show we just need to ask him
faviomasulli 3 years ago
No. I did not ask you to prove that Jesus(pbuh) is divine. Becoz i know,u will use all his miracles as acts of divination. If he is divine based on that, wats stopping you from calling Moses(pbuh) divine as well?
I asked you to prove Jesus(pbuh) admitting he IS God. Jesus(pbuh) never died at the cross according to the bible account. Shall i prove it?
I believe in the Gospel of Jesus(pbuh) if it exists in the written form. Not gospels thought up by 12 men.
Dark5ith 3 years ago
No, I wouldn't use his miracles, that would be foolish. The priest of Pharao imitated miracles too. John 20:28 (Jesus doesn't deny being God, because God doesn't lie, he reassures faith in him.) Again, you confirm your fundamental denial of the Holy Spirit. I can understand if you never experienced it. Other examples can be found in Titus, Hebrews, Colossians, 1 John, 1 Timothy.
faviomasulli 3 years ago
Well he did deny he was God in Matthew 19:16-26. And he did go to great lengths to show there was nothing wrong to refer himself as son of God, as all men are God according to Song of Solomons, which he explained, right before he was stoned by the Jews. He was going to be stoned yet he took the time to explain that. Doesnt that count for something?
Dark5ith 3 years ago
He doesn't deny being God. In these verses he shows the man, that only God is good. He shows him, that he needs to follow him, and Jesus shows the man, that his focus, his heart was on his riches, not on God. In verse 26, he says, that no man can gain eternal life by himself, but with God all things are possible. Which Song of Solomon are you referring to?
faviomasulli 3 years ago
Sorry, that was Psalms 82:6 not Song of Solomons.
In the verse 26 which u quoted, as a Muslim, I can definitely say we strongly believe this. That no man can gain eternal life by himself and with God all things are possible. However the thin line that separates Muslims and Christians is the divinity assertion of Jesus(pbuh) by the Christians.
Dark5ith 3 years ago
However, the point is, that Jesus(pbuh) never admitted he was God. U can say he didnt deny it either. Lets take a closer look at that logic.
When confronted with the question on who is the Messiah, Jesus(pbuh) admitted without question that he was the Messiah. So if he was God, dont u think he wld've also admitted it? If he had mentioned the trinity, dont u think it wld have taken less than 100 years to approve this doctrine?
Dark5ith 3 years ago
I am glad that we agree upon the sovereignty of God. This psalm by Asaph calls the judges&rules of Israel "gods" and "children of the Most High". They were called gods because they represented God in judgement. John 10:34-36 records Jesus using this passage to defend his claims to be God. His argument was: If God would call mere people "gods", why was it blasphemous for him, the true Son of God, to declare himself equal with God?(John 10)
faviomasulli 3 years ago
Well u got part of his arguement right.
If God would call mere people "gods", why was it blasphemous for him, the true Son of God, to declare himself equal with God?(John 10)
See, he said he was the son of God. He never said he was the true son of God. Ask any Jewish Rabbi to translate. "son of God" in Hebrew is liken to the "slave of God". And btw, there is no difference between "son" and "Son" in the Greek texts. Its the translators tat made that distinction.
Dark5ith 3 years ago
Well, we could just agree to disagree. Again, it's open to both our books, faiths, experiences and traditions. I understand what you are trying to say, but why then was it so Blasphemous for the Jewish leaders, that he said what he said. Why is Christianity such a bad thing for you? What is said here is very interesting, but what is the underlying issue? Do you want to know why we believe what we believe, or are you looking for potential converts to Islam?
faviomasulli 3 years ago
U just love that phrase dont you?
"We agree to disagree"
The foundation of your faith is based on Judaism. The god that you believe in is/was a Jew. I would think you would take their interpretation into consideration instead of believing on something concocted by someone else.
Much lies have been propagated abt Islam. I seek to correct these as well as expose Christianity. If christians can point fingers at Islam, why cant i do the same to them?
Dark5ith 3 years ago
U just love that phrase dont you?
"We agree to disagree"
The foundation of your faith is based on Judaism. The god that you believe in is/was a Jew. I would think you would take their interpretation into consideration instead of believing on something concocted by someone else.
Much lies have been propagated abt Islam. I seek to correct these as well as expose Christianity. If christians can point fingers at Islam, why cant i do the same to them?
Dark5ith 3 years ago
oops double-posted. Anyways, abt your qn on why was it so blasphemous, its simple. Jesus(pbuh) has been insulting, treating the Jews very lowly for a long time. Calling them "generation of vipers" among other things. Would you like it someone insulted u or would you LOOOOVE them?
Dark5ith 3 years ago
Well, he wasn't talking about all Jews, and yes, those that he addressed used the status quo to take advantage of God beloved chosen people. Can you tell me please where he used that phrase in one of the four Gospels, so I can re-study them. On your second question, I wouldn't like it, but that is my human nature, without God. I would pray to God to give me the love for them, like Stephen. Jesus taught us to love our enemies, and that's what I follow.
faviomasulli 3 years ago
Matthew 3:7, Matthew 16:4 among a few.
Abt my second qn: U said that WITHOUT faith, u wouldnt like it, correct? So wat are the Jews to u? Pple without the correct faith, correct? Therefore, simply put, the Jews hated Jesus(pbuh) for the fact that he had insulted them.
Dark5ith 3 years ago
I never said that, I said God, and you just dont want to listen, to talk, you want to be right. Its not about faith, it's about God. The Jews worship the same God as I do, and so do you. The difference is, I actually don't have a religion, I have a relationship with God, because he reached out to us all, every human being, saying 'I love you', and people who don't listen don't realise His love.
From the book of Genesis onwards, he didn't want to establish a religion, but a relationship with us.
faviomasulli 3 years ago
Im not worshipping what u are worshipping and u arent worshipping what im worshipping. Tat is to say i dont believe in the god that u do and vice versa. If u dont have a religion, wat do u call christianity then? Wasnt Jesus(pbuh) a Jew? Part of A religion?
On the contrary, God alwez says to establish a covenant with His creations in the bible. Even in Genesis.
Gen 6:18
Gen 9:1
Gen 9:9
Gen 9:11
Gen 9:12
I could go on. Essentially, God did specify a religion. There goes your arguement.
Dark5ith 3 years ago
Again, you are entitled 2 your opinion my friend. I see you are sincere, & that is all there is to it. Again, I need to ask you, why you do what you do?
If you type the words"real messiah"into google, you will see the basis, 1st link.
Christianity is the term given to all who profess 2 follow Christ Jesus. That is 2 say, not all who profess actually do belong 2 the body of Christ, but I presume that is the case in Islam as well, people not living their faith. God is the judge here, not us.
faviomasulli 3 years ago
And again i reiterate: To correct misconceptions as well as to expose Christianity since Christianity has done much to "expose" Islam; Although, i have to admit, they have not done a good job at it.
I follow Jesus(pbuh) but that doesnt make me a Christian. A more detailed description would be someone who believes Jesus(pbuh) is God and follows his teachings.
Yes God is The Judge. However, not everything is fed to us. Sometimes we have to explore by ourselves to find the right path.
Dark5ith 3 years ago
Oh and btw, Muslims do believe that Jesus(pbuh) was/is the Messiah. No question there. What they do qn is why Christians are calling Jesus(pbuh) god when he NEVER claimed to be God like how he claimed to be the Messiah. He plainly admitted that he was the Messiah. If u can find anywhere in the bible that clearly shows him admitting in the same way he did wen he admitted he was the Messiah, that he was God, i'd baptise myself right now.
Dark5ith 3 years ago
From your point of view, he never did, but he explicitly said "Before Abraham was, I am." You base your faith on the Bible, but then only chose the parts that fit your view. I say this, because its fact, nothing more
The argument that the bible was falsified, simply doesn't work, if Christianity is a great world religion, it is not founded on falsehood, lies and forgeries.
A better way for us would be to look at the use and mis-use both our scriptures, in respect and friendship.
Happy Sunday
faviomasulli 3 years ago
Ah...Study your bible again.
In the Greek Septuagint (the GREEK OT), the word you quoted, "I am" is egw eimi in Greek. The "I am" used in Exodus 3:14 is "Ho Oon". If Jesus(pbuh) is God because of this, then i guess the blind beggar in John 9:9 is one too.
Dark5ith 3 years ago
If Jesus(pbuh) is God because he said he pre-existed before Abraham(pbuh), then i guess Jeremiah is also God then because he pre-existed:Jeremiah 1:5.
Dark5ith 3 years ago
You are presenting the same arguments over and over, instead of a dialogue, you are out to 'win' regardless of your fellow humans. We read the context, you just don't want to. I told you that we have solid reason to believe what we believe. Christianity does not contradict Judaism, if you'd have look up the phrase I gave you in google(real messiah), you could research that for yourself. Interestingly, you base your arguments on the bible, but don't believe it to be accurate.
faviomasulli 3 years ago
Did I ever state a misconception of or about Islam?
faviomasulli 3 years ago
Even Fyodor Dostoyevsky (who believed that if God existed he was unjust and immoral) said: "Even those who have renounced Christianity and attack it, in their inmost being still follow the Christian ideal, for hitherto neither their subtlety nor the ardour of their hearts has been able to create a higher ideal of man and of virtue than the ideal given by Christ of old."
rhomas913 3 years ago
You remind me of Glen Back ! HAHAHHAHA
No realy, you do , talk like him use the same physical movements while talking ...are you two related ? I mean both of you spread propaganda....maybe you're related too ?
So when you talk about the Bible , why new testament ? Old one wasn't good enough? ...kind of like an old car with a carburator...ahhhh let's add fuel injection .... LoL
BosnianPasa 4 years ago
the Apocrypa was in the Greek LXX. New testament quotes from the LXX. Do protestants find it kind of strange that they get their old testament canon from the Council of Jamnia
rudge1982 4 years ago
God your such a bum loser. your like 57 and your on youtube. get a life you loser. virgin
alaearbi123 4 years ago
One thing is certain- the Quranic version of the life of Jesus has no link whatever to the apostles or any other eyewitness and it is a mystery why Moslems credit it with any authority.
The evidence for the authencity of the NT, on the other hand, is magnitudes greater than for any other ancient writing and there is every reason to believe the specific claims of the authors when they said they were writing eyewitness accounts (see eg Luke 1:1-4 & John 21:24)
fwnd2 4 years ago 2
You would do well to listen carefully to Jay- you can learn a lot from him.
fwnd2 4 years ago 2
Wow, you sound ignorant. None of the gospels were written by the apostles! And the oldest fragment of a gospel is a piece of 'John' that dates back to 150 AD. Most of the gospel writings we have are dated from 200 to 400 AD. And anyhow, why would you trust a late 4th-century church to know which writings to accept? There was so much bickering, bloodshed and power-struggles back then and the final decisions always ended up being taken by Roman Emperors (who often changed their minds).
dookdawg214 4 years ago
What parts were written 200 - 400 A.D. and what part of John is written at 150 A.D.? Please tell me I'm curious.
Qohelet888 4 years ago
Actually, I was referring to the surviving manuscript dates (which are not disputed), not the estimated dates of the original first drafts (which are somewhat). The synoptic gospels were probably first written between 70 AD (Mark) and 125 AD (Matt, Luke, John), but no one knows what those original drafts may have looked like. We only have copies of copies of copies, and we know for sure that they were changed repeatedly -- sometimes purely by accident, sometimes maliciously. (CONT...)
dookdawg214 4 years ago
(...CONT) The last few chapters of Mark (the Easter story no less) were clearly added hundreds of years later. They exist in not one of the 5,000+ Greek manuscripts we now have. They only show up for the first time in Latin. If you're interested, you should read some of the later books by Bart Ehrmann and the late Bruce Metzger (these are/were the greatest textual scholars of today). A great starting point (and easy read) would be "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart Ehrmann.
dookdawg214 4 years ago
You get no argument from me about the ending in Mark but I'm not sure that argument is strong enough to prove that the Gospels were distorted. 1 Cointhians 15:3-8 predates Mark for example.
I'll check out Ehrmans book. Thank you for the recommending it to me. =)
Qohelet888 4 years ago
Total BS. The early church didn't accept all the books. Early Christians couldn't agree on anything. Even the earliest Christian apoligists, like Marcus Minucius, seemed to know nothing of the Gospels. Many early bishops totally denounced Paul's writings and some considered them heretical. It took rule of the sword to get people in agreement!
dookdawg214 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Quran states that if you have sex with a goat you must marry the goat and give it a dowry. It is haram to have sex with a lamb as it is too young. Although moohamed was a pedophile,it was accepted that he could have sex with underage animals.
inshalla
cairsuckit3 4 years ago
Not all those books are gnostic, the apocalypse of peter has to versions and the Gospel of Thomas does not say anything about the resurrection it is 100 sayings of Jesus and many Gnostic's believe Jesus as the resurrection Saviour so please get your fact straight.
God Bless
SmallvilleDDC 4 years ago
Just kidding.
SmallvilleDDC 4 years ago
Not Kidding
SmallvilleDDC 4 years ago
The quran is at a job interview. The boss asks, "Do you have references?" quran replies, "Torah and Injil, call them." So the boss calls Torah, who replies, "I've never heard of him." Confused, the boss calls Injil, who says, "I know him; but he is a liar and is actually from Satan, the devil, don't believe him." Pressed by the boss, the quran defends "they are liars." So the boss reasons: "if they are liars, why do you use them for references unless you are insane, or desperate?"
paagalwalla 4 years ago
There are many many books of the bible that are mentioned in the bible canon, but do not exist as part of the bible canon. These are considered lost even by Christians.
Recently, the Gospel of Judas was rediscovered and translated (2006).
TheTrueJudgement 4 years ago
Regarding language is it not true that the Honorable Koran is considered best understood in Arabic. Islam can calm to be a universal Abrahamic religion but it's not open to all in regard to adaptation to greek or western understanding. The adherents to Islam must submit under the sword. Jesus posits that those who live by the sword will die by the sword.
rusty2029 4 years ago
Ah. Wrong again. If Islam MUST use the sword to increase the number of adherents, explain to me, which Muslim army went to spread the sword with the country of Indonesia(coincidentally, having the <b>largest</b> Muslim population in the world).
Explain which muslim army went to conquer the east coast of africa. Explain to me, how Islam, being the lords of Arabia for 1400+ years, has MILLIONS of coptic christians(christians by generation) in it?
Dark5ith 4 years ago
Ah. Wrong again as in your superiority is wrong. I will say that slavery is wrong and Shahaadah is slavery. Perhaps the redemptive love of our Creator is something that is wrong to you.
Islam is good at submission and collecting jazia tax for the underclass that does not join in the enslavement to the five pillars.
rusty2029 4 years ago
So i guess, when a foreign force conquers a territory, the territory is allowed free reign? When America invaded Afghanistan and Iraq, wasnt democracy installed? So why find it abnormal when Islam did it 1400 years ago?
Do i smell a hint of hypocrisy here...*sniff*sniff* oh damn...it reeks all the way over here
Dark5ith 4 years ago
Well done sir, very informative, and accurate
budcarfan 4 years ago
The Bible is one of the greatest conspiracy of all time it was wrote by a German.....if u don't trust me u should....
Plnault 4 years ago
Show me like jay and the Bible is showing. Dont tell me with out the whole Koran not part.
keep going jay prase GOD and Jesus.
TerryBogard3 4 years ago
Jay, the Catholics have 52 NT books...?
reccanboy 4 years ago
Jay, don't be cowed by this kind of character assasination - attacking someone's age ??? Being older can be a good thing - with it knowledge and wisdom..... Keep up the good work Brother Jay - In Christ's Name.
qst300 4 years ago
Ha ha, gumpydood, there sure as hell are easier ways to make money than to compile a book that teaches man to love his neighbor, turn the other cheek and strive for peace. Either these church doctors we're awful business men, or they believed in the message. Do you?
anthony68drake 4 years ago
The Bible,Koran,and other holy books were written by people..NOT BY GOD..Do a search on Bible or Koran contradictions and see what you get. I DARE YOU.. BOTH.. are loaded with contradictions.
stratmandoug1974 4 years ago
Koran with contradictions???? where prove it., i dare you.,. show the facts not by your words alone with no grounds.
ipayextra 4 years ago
There's not enough room with a 500 character limit to show all the contradictions.
Try the web site answeringislam.
stratmandoug1974 4 years ago
Mariam (mother of Jesus) is called the sister of harun (aaron) and daughter of imran. In the Bible Mariam is the sister of aaraon and Moses,daughter of Amran but born hundreds of years before Jesus.
Dragonlady66 4 years ago
sperm does not come from between the ribs and backbones... surah 86:5-7 'So let man consider from what he is created. He is created from a gushing fluid That issued from between the loins and ribs'
Dragonlady66 4 years ago
Should you wait till a girl reaches puberty before marrying them? Yes S. 4:6 'And try orphans (as regards their intelligence) until they reach the age of marriage' No 65:4 "And those of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the 'Iddah (prescribed period), if you have doubts (about their periods), is three months, and for those who have no courses [(i.e. they are still immature) their 'Iddah is three months likewise, except in case of death]"
Dragonlady66 4 years ago
imterestingly in 5th century BC Hippocrates taught that semen comes from all the fluid in the body, diffusing from the brain into the spinal marrow, before passing through the kidneys and via the testicles into the penis...of course he was WRONG too
Dragonlady66 4 years ago
"For God So Loved The World, That He Gave His Only Begotten Son, That Whosoever Believes In Him Shall Not Perish But Have Everlasting Life"- John 3:16
bustos1601 4 years ago
Bullshit. The five criterion were this. . . 1}can we make money from this set of books 2}can we make money from this set of books 3} can we make money from this set of books and 5} can we get power from this set of books. Catholic bullshit.
gumpydoood 4 years ago
shame it's a 1 sided view!
Tightan 4 years ago
Blessed is the Son of the almighty Living God which is JESUS, my soon coming King, and "every kneel shall bow and every tongue shall confess JESUS CHRIST IS LORD", Amen, case closed, i cant wait until that glorius day,
goldenchild4eva88 4 years ago
I thought that Jesus was the son of God.
Rembu 4 years ago
It seems that the method used in making selection of manuscripts is 'consesus' and 'democratically' based approach. This is absolutely wrong because absolute truths are not a product of human thinking. That is why you have problems in giving explanation on either 27 or 50 books to select. I my self feel confidence that not a single book accepted by the churches is genuine and the existing books are merely novels of short stories.
ISMAHANI 4 years ago
STANDING OVATION!! YAHUWEH bless you, Jay!
praisecalvary 4 years ago
Are we descendants of a "CLONED" human race? Discover the "ORIGINAL VERSION of Genesis (versus the 'King James' SUBSTITUTE)" as they are kept in the "Vatican Vault." What really happened "In the Beginning" will "BLOW YOUR MIND!" [click "300 Vatican-Are You A Clone?" link]
VaticanVault 4 years ago
Dear Christians! Can someone please elaborate and explain to me what this verse in the Bible means "The burden upon Arabia" Isaiah 23:13?
thinknact 4 years ago
dude bible has a lot of errors watever helps u sleep at night
kKKHUSHAL 4 years ago
name some?
yiltrfrontline 4 years ago
my mistake, heli did have kids , to simply put it, about the 2 fathers of joseph, the 1 in luke is jesus lineage through mary, heli is the father of mary. the translator of the english bible put the commas in the wrong place of that verse. when u fix the commas it really say: jesus began to be about 30 of age,(being as was the supposed the son of joseph) which was the son of hali. after fixing the commas it makes sence.
bbejin 4 years ago
A lazy bum waived for a taxi. The taxi stopped 10 feet from where he stood. He told the taxi driver, you stopped where I was getting off.
That's how far you guys think. Move you lazy people, study your own bloody history before you talk about the Quran with nonsense.
And the parrots after you say, yea, yea. Lazy Bums
fred7373 5 years ago
I"m have been reading codices from the Nag Hammadi, I was raised baptist, as I got older I started watching the mounting evidence of ufo's and aliens, but never questioned my Christian faith, when I read the text from the Nag Hammadi it all made sense to me. That the two can be true and are explained. I wanted to know your thoughts on the Nag Hammadi library.
giantcandy 5 years ago
PfanderFilms. This is not out my head but from a lot of readings. Almighty created from fire Satan=Beelzebub=Goethe=call it God. By all means Satan mated earthly woman & created fatherless child called Jesus. Jews indorsed it as the chosen one as Messiah & Christened these Babylonian/Phoenician Satanic Verses into Western faith manual called KING JAMES BIBLE. Da Vinci Code hmm. It is not hard to find it out. I have 27 tangible accounts support that both Jesus & bible are false in-fact. Peace.
gohbukhor 5 years ago
that is the most hilarious thing i have ever seen...
if god created satan and was all powerful and knowing enough to allow him to create jesus and the faith that is christianity then how can you speak out against that act of your lord?
if your going to insult another religion and are unable to do so without insulting your own god then perhaps you need to re-evaluate your perspective.
CanadianFH 5 years ago
"FOR THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN,THE FATHER,THE WORD,AND THE HOLY GHOST:and these three are one"(1st Epistle of Jhon 5:7-AV)this key-stone of the Christian faith has expunged in the(RVS)without even a explanation But for the 1499 remaining language group of the world,the fraud remains, we Muslims congratulate the who have been honest enough to eliminate another (LIE)from the English(RVS)bibel,thus bringing their Holy Book yet another step closer to the teachings of Islam.
anwar20058 5 years ago
I have been reading and watching your video blog for quite some time Almost every single question you have raised been answered one way or the other. I know now you are not interested in any truth, Reality let alone in Islam OR for that matter even in Christianity. You have this blog going about which you brag to your Christian friends at Sunday church ONLY this matters to you. Continuie...
HawkEyeBlue 5 years ago
Right from the very beginnings of the Gospels, they're full of inconsistencies. Look at the genealogies. But thanks for a nice retarded little bit of propaganda against Gnostics and Muslims.
Murple333 5 years ago
The genealogy listed in Matthew is of Joseph the one listed in Luke is of Mary.
RinnEgade 5 years ago
that's just completely wrong, plain wrong, any one case see if they turn to Matthew 1 v 1-16 and Luke 3 v 23-28 respectively. They both go through Joseph? I don't understand why you wrote this, evidently you HAVE TO lie in order to discredit the word of God.
yiltrfrontline 5 years ago
Prove that it's a lie then. All u give are opinions. Jewish ppl trace their roots thru the fathers. That's why they're mentioned according to the male & very few women are mentioned yet some are.
RinnEgade 5 years ago
i did?? I quoted scripture, here look again - Matthew 1 v 1-16 and Luke 3 v 23-28 - just look at the genealogies, they both go through Joseph???!
yiltrfrontline 5 years ago
Jewish lineage always credits the father, despite the fact that the mothers lineage is being used. Male dominant mindest even though some women are mentioned. Either way both details are correct.
RinnEgade 4 years ago
the levirate law among the Jews, prescribes that when a man dies childless his widow "shall not marry to another; but his brother shall take her, and raise up seed for his brother" (Deuteronomy 25:5-6). The child, therefore, of the second marriage is legally the child of the first husband. heli died with out kids,
bbejin 4 years ago
the legality came through the father. for a jewish family to be jewish it had to come through the mother.
blessedvic 4 years ago
what about the gospel of Barnabas. that was actually in the Canon. i'm a Christian and i want to hear your opinion on it.
qwertyfshag 5 years ago
Wouldn't u think that if God intended for gospel of barnabas, etc, to be in His book it would be there? Obviously by some miraculous event, the book called the KJB is what was intended even if ppl don't see the providence of God in it.
RinnEgade 5 years ago
Hey iqraproductions, Not another video!!! You are always living off of Jay's videos...but while his are interesting and factual, yours are BORING and ineffectual. Do we have to put up with you yet again?!
paagalwalla 5 years ago
you're quite angry, really. can see it in all your postings. sad.
fuddam 5 years ago
you know anything about putting God to the test? obviously not.
fuddam 5 years ago
Dear Jay please will you continue each day these lessons i am waiting for all your lessons and am learning a lot from you I am you most ardent respectful person here a christian and zionist
anangelsmum1 5 years ago
1924! LOL
The bottom line is there is much more to dispute in Islam and it's book than in the Bible. Islam rewrites far more history and they need to as they know they are in trouble otherwise. The strident, angry nature of the defenders of Islam is all the proof you need to see that this is so.
rusty2029 5 years ago
on a lighter note (lol) its acceptable to BURN the Quran than it is to flush it down the toilet. Its islamic tradition! Uthman was famous for destroying conflicting versions of his quran.
Shinobubu 5 years ago
And christians are famous for the inability to COPY a simple manuscript. Instead the thousands are all different and you pass it off as "honesty". Thats hypocritical in my opinion. Also rusty how is there much more to dispute? Every muslim today follows the exact same book, unlike the polytheists of christianity
moestyles 5 years ago
WRONG!!! we got all the manuscripts perfectly copied. prove to us that we got it all wrong? you assume that we have to use the language of the past? Translational fallacy is your excuse we're still right and we have physical evidence and not EXCUSES so you fail sir you fail miserably with your accusations. we still have our manuscripts were are yours? BURNED GONE like a fucking hypocrit.
Shinobubu 5 years ago
We dont need to prove anything. U guys did it for us becoz the sheer number of your different versions of bibles speaks volumes abt the inability of christians to come up with an accurate bible. Lets not foget the constant revision of the bible every few years becoz of the discovery of 'ancient' manuscripts.
Dark5ith 5 years ago
we do not have sheer numbers of different Bibles, we have different Compilations. we didnt CHANGE the books. while the Quran have VERSES that are changed, and the pronounciations being changed was just one of MANY differences. Grammatical ERRORS, Inacuraccies, overwhelming contradictions. The problems of your Quran is Much much worst.
Shinobubu 5 years ago
Wat? Quran verses have changed?? Haha seriously dude. At least provide proof. U juz rattle on and on but where is the proof? Contradictions? Inaccuracies?
U didnt change the books? I'll give u just ONE example:
1 John 5:7-9 -> Its an interpolation.
It wasnt in any ancient manuscripts, yet they ADDED it in. I got many more examples if u want. And now they changed it again recently!! To blood, water and the Holy spirit.
Dark5ith 5 years ago
we have proven that there has been no change. we have compaired the Dead sea scrolls (thanks to a muslim sheppard who found them) and compaired all our translations to them and all the books contained in ALL the bibles of Every denominations did not show any discremency in Translation in Every Different Published Years. SO wheres your proof?
Shinobubu 5 years ago
LoL did u do a research on that ONE verse i quoted u? The verse : 1 John 5:7-9. Did u? Its an interpolation. ITS NOT EVEN IN THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS. THERE IS YOUR PROOF. If dats not called a change, i wonder wat is? And dats only ONE. U want more???
Dark5ith 5 years ago
Yes resort to the "f" word that really helps your credibility. You got 1 thing right though, you have physical evidence that your ancestors could produde something like 24000 manuscripts that all conflict. Bravo to you sir.
moestyles 5 years ago