Canon SX40 ISO limits time-exposure night shots.

[SLOphoto1]

Look it up in the index of the manual under “ISO.” It just says “page 81” for ISO Speed. The limit is not described on page 81. It’s not even there, not anywhere! Doesn't anybody understand? Canon is HIDING the limit, they are NOT explaining it!

[usgp1]

Always read the manual before you buy, it's in there. Manuals are available online, no need to purchase camera first.

[SLOphoto1]

@usgp1 No one reads 25 manuals cover-to-cover before they decide to buy one $400 camera. You read the professional reviews first, and then the spec sheets. Nothing in print mentioned this limit. Canon's own tech support dept did not know about the limit. It is not mentioned in the manual mode section of the user manual at all. Is the consumer supposed to understand the camera better than Canon's own tech dept. before they buy it? That's not a reasonable demand of any consumer.

[Wik2kassa]

@SLOphoto1 You can overcome this using CHDK.

[usgp1]

"doesn't protect the photos in any way". Try the high ISO at night and you'll see a high degradation of photos on a small sensor camera.

[SLOphoto1]

@usgp1 You misquoted me. I said, "it doesn't improve the quality of the photos in any way." It doesn't. It simply puts limits on which photos you are allowed to take. Actually I was able to get a very good quality 8X10 print at over 360 dpi. out of it with the SX30. There was a slight noise degradation in the original image, but two passes through Noise Ninja and it was completely cleared up. I'm convinced the SX40 would take the same photo even better. It does not need that limit on it.

[usgp1]

CHDK, 64 second exposures and gets rid of the pesky ISO limit.

[SLOphoto1]

@usgp1 I'm sure it would. Now as to "CHDK." It stands for "Canon Hacker Development Kit," right? Well, not everyone wants to resort to a hacker software program to try to solve the problem. Most people just want the camera to work for them. The problem is that an artificial limit was placed on the camera. I'm just asking Canon to remove that limit and let people have the personal freedom to make their own decisions. If you want to help in that effort, I could certainly use your support. Thanks.

[usgp1]

CHDK dude, I don't see a timelapse here anyway. I have no problems doing night shots with mine, just turn up the timer longer.

[SLOphoto1]

@usgp1 You are right about the term "time-lapse." I didn't understand that subtle distinction when I first made the video, but I have now changed the title and the caption. Thanks. Longer exposures would work, except for a minor cloud movement problem, but unfortunately Canon has never allowed more than a 15 second exposure on any camera of this line since the beginning. I wish they would change that too. Nope, I'm just not into using CHDK at the moment. For others it's fine. Thanks again.

[raoulspam]

Nothing chdk won't fix, right ?

[SLOphoto1]

@raoulspam "Nothing chdk won't fix, right ?" ANSWER - "Fix" means "it takes the ISO limit off the camera." No, CHDK won't do that. CHDK is a third-party software program that can reboot the camera from a special SDHC card. It uses separate menus and has a rather steep learning curve. It can be used to bypass certain limits. It is also a hassle. There is a log inside the SX40 that records if CHDK was used in the camera. Canon tech can read that log and void your warrantee. CHDK won't "fix" that.

[nealx]

@SLOphoto1 yes, CHDK will fix that.

[SLOphoto1]

@nealx CHDK will fix your voided warrantee? Whatever... Maybe it will, but if it can, then please tell us how? Thanks for the input.

[nealx]

@SLOphoto1 You're welcome. What happens is after you install CHDK, your testicles slowly begin to descend from where they've been tucked up inside your body all of your life. As they drop lower and lower, you realize that voiding the warranty is not the end of the world, as CHDK doesn't mess with any of the camera's hardware, and any firmware edition you'd like can be installed anytime you would like.

[Saudanha81]

Get real, this image has been modified in Photoshop.

[SLOphoto1]

@Saudanha81 Both images were adjusted in Photoshop CS4 using identical settings as follows: Levels 0 1.07 210; Brightness 15; Contrast 28. Both photos were also run 2 times through Noise Ninja at identical settings. No other modifications were made. Anyone can repeat the same experiment and confirm the results. It is accurate. SDHC cards from the SX30 and SX40 containing each of the original, unmodified images are locked in a bank security vault, and are available for professional testing.

[Saudanha81]

@SLOphoto1 I looked at other comments and actually you're right. Excuse me please.

[Saudanha81]

@SLOphoto1 I was thinking of buying this camera and now gave up, I will search another. Thanks for the demonstration.

[travisrambin]

My response, That is truly unacceptable. The "manual" function should allow the user to set his/her ISO. I have read many complaints on the web over this problem. It IS possible to remove this limitation. Chdk can make this possible but I choose not to hack my camera for a feature that shouldn't be hacked to begin with. Canon just lost a valued customer.

[SLOphoto1]

@travisrambin It is completely bogus if Canon suggested that, "there is no way to force a higher ISO setting." The ISO worked fine on the SX30 without it, CHDK proves it works just fine on the SX40 without it, and the truth is Canon had to deliberately write extra software to impose this limit on the camera. There is no legitimate technical reason requiring it to be there. None! It does not protect either the sensor or the camera, and it doesn't improve the quality of the photos in any way.

[travisrambin]

Response from canon, Unfortunately, when shutter speeds of 1.3 seconds or slower are used, the ISO speed is fixed to ISO 100. There is no way to force a higher ISO setting. I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

[SLOphoto1]

@travisrambin Wrong, Canon! There is an easy way to force a higher ISO. Just remove the limit on it. Paraphrased, "I apologize for any inconvenience that we at Canon have deliberately caused," is not an apology. Canon caused it deliberately, they could easily fix it, but they won't do so. Absolutely no one wants it - "Please keep this limit on my camera" - so just take off the limit and let all of us use the full potential of the camera. The best solution is to just stop causing the problem!

[travisrambin]

Canon, get with the program. Update the firmware. My night photos sucked last night!

[SLOphoto1]

@travisrambin Yes, Canon, please get with the program. For a camera advertised as being "good in low light," the night photos do suck! No one wants this limit. No one said, "Please put this limit on my camera!" It didn't happen. Canon, you have alienated a growing portion of your loyal customer base over it. This video has now been seen by over 3500 people in 92 countries. It isn't going away. Is it really worth the long-term damage to your reputation to keep imposing this ISO limit?

[foxdot]

WHY CANON, WHY? An updated firmware for SX40HS now!

[SLOphoto1]

@foxdot I totally agree. I hope enough people will put enough pressure on Canon to do just that - update the firmware.

[bennjanse]

Very good video !!!

[SLOphoto1]

@bennjanse  I appreciate your support in trying to put an end to this Canon-imposed arbitrary limit on the ISO. Thank you.

[Lintassimilator]

Just wait for CHDK to be ported to the SX40 and we can have our manual controls back again :)

[Lintassimilator]

@Lintassimilator Scratch that, there's already a beta up. I've already taken said picture at 15" shutter speed and ISO400 with my SX40 using CHDK and a regular one at 15";ISO100 for verification that it worked.

[SLOphoto1]

@Lintassimilator It is encouraging CHDK for the SX40 is now in beta testing stage. But as I commented below, CHDK has a steep learning curve for many people, and it is still a third-party-provider solution. Regardless of how "safe" it may seem, Canon's legal department has declared that it DOES void the warrantee in the camera. If ANYTHING goes wrong with the camera and you have used CHDK in it, your warrantee can be voided. This remains Canon's responsibility to fix. But thanks for the update.

[samhamels]

I noticed the same thing on my canon sx40... this is bullshit.

[SLOphoto1]

@samhamels I agree with you 100%.

[LazerLord10]

I do dislike this unexpected feature in the SX40, but it doesn't sound like a deal-breaker to me. Compared to other super-zooms, this is the best, even with this limitation. The nikon has poor IS, and no other camera I've seen can film at 240fps. I think I'll be using the 240fps more than night shots.

[SLOphoto1]

@LazerLord10 Well, it probably isn't a deal breaker for most people, but for some it will be. That's why I made the video. The more disturbing aspect is the question of why the limit was put there? It was not done for any technical reason. The SX40 does shoot a very grainy video at 240fps at size 320 x 240, yes. But even the 3-year old Casio Exilim Pro EX-F1 will shoot video of 432x192 at 600 frames per second, and 336x96 at 1,200 frames per second. There are faster cameras out there for that.

[SLOphoto1]

It applies to all modes, P-Mode, Tv-Mode, Av-Mode, M-Mode and of course Auto Mode.

[eformisis]

It applies also in the Tv-Mode and Av-Mode, or only in M-Mode ?

[Robi3300]

that's a bad news for canon.. and gud news for me i didn't yet purchase the sx40.. maybe its time to try the Panasonic FZ150.

[SLOphoto1]

@Robi3300 The Panasonic FZ150 does have several advantages over the Canon SX40. There are no limits on the ISO in Manual Mode. You can also shoot RAW files with it, if you want to take that next step. HD movies shoot at the industry standard of 30 fps, unlike Canon's oddball 24 fps. And the red movie button is on top of the camera, so you don't accidently press it while holding your thumb on the back of the camera. Overall it just looks like it grips better and is better built too. Good luck.

[SLOphoto1]

@Robi3300 It's bad news for a lot of people, but especially for those people who bought the Canon SX40 expecting it to have at least the same features as the SX30 only to discover too late that at least one of those features had been limited by some sort of governor on it for which no plausible technical explanation has been offered. Many potential buyers are turning to the Panasonic Lumix FZ150 instead for that very reason - it does not have that ISO limit and it offers more features.

[tathagatagupta]

@jez5555: But I heard that loading CHDK might void your warranty. Won't there be any official upgrade from canon, through their website or something? I'm new to the world of camera, so I don't know the ins and outs.

[SLOphoto1]

@tathagatagupta CDHK refers to a separate software program that can be loaded onto your camera by rebooting it from a standard SDHC memory card. It is not “firmware.” It runs separately and you can set the option to “reboot each time” or else the camera will default to rebooting with your standard Canon operating system. Canon's official position is that if you use any software not authorized by Canon, yes, it will void your warrantee. You use CDHK at your own risk. Those are the facts.



[SLOphoto1]

@tathagatagupta Canon put the ISO limit on the SX40 deliberately. The SX30 did not have this limit. It was put there for a reason, though no plausible technical reason has been offered. It is not a "bug" as far as Canon is concerned. Canon will only remove it if enough people protest the limit and make it worthwhile to Canon's financial bottom line to change it. Otherwise the ISO limit will stay where it is.

[SLOphoto1]

Direct and to the point, kamikazeOS. And I'm afraid Canon has lost more than just buyers. They have lost respect. A camera is a scientific instrument and has been for almost 200 years now. Putting artificial limits on it in Full Manual Mode compromises the integrity of the camera itself. It can't fully do its job like a real camera. Are there other limits too? We don´t know. You can't rely on it anymore. This was a real betrayal of public trust. People expected better of Canon than this.

[kamikazeOS]

Canon , you just lost a buyer ...F U

[JRPC500]

Great illustration of Canon's bone-headed decision to "dumb down" an otherwise great camera. Hope this presentation gets them to issue an appropriate firmware update. Thanks, Mr. Sturgeon!

[SLOphoto1]

@JRPC500 I agree it was a pretty ¨bone-headed decision¨ by Canon to ¨dumb-down¨ an otherwise excellent camera. It completely blind-sided some long-term Canon users like myself. The arbitrary limit was a total and very unpleasant surprise my very first night of photo shooting with it. Yes, I really hope that Canon will see the error in judgement and fix it with an upgrade to the firmware for the SX40. Thanks.

[randyfletcher86]

@SLOphoto1 I showed this video to someone at work who has a few DSLR's and has been taking photos for a while now. He said that it could be possible to burn out the sensor if you increase ISO levels at longer shutter speeds. Couldn't this be the reason for such a limitation?

[SLOphoto1]

@randyfletcher86 Your friend is right. It is possible to damage a sensor with longer shutter speeds. You can damage a camera by pointing it directly at the noon day sun for a prolonged period of time, yes. But the damage to the sensor would be the same if the ISO were set to 1000 or to zero. It is the heat which damages the sensor, not the light. You could damage the sensor just as much by leaving the camera inside a parked car on a hot day. (see more in part 2)

[SLOphoto1]

@randyfletcher86 (part 2) All DSLR cameras allow the user to set the camera at "bulb," which means you can leave the shutter open for as long as you like - for hours if you want to take star shots. There is no warning with DSLR cameras that a high ISO is going "damage" the sensor, because it won't. Your friend is technically right, theoretically a fool could damage it. But as with anything else in life, "nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool." Best wishes - SLOphoto1

[SLOphoto1]

@randyfletcher86 (part 3) ISO is essentially created by amplifiers inside the camera´s electronic processor after the image has already been taken. Setting a high ISO does not make the sensor itself more "sensitive." It does not damage the sensor. The same amount of light strikes the sensor either way.

[randyfletcher86]

@SLOphoto1 Thanks for reply. IMO it could be that Canon hasn't quite finished work on that new chip that they put into this camera (and are about to put in all new cameras) and maybe they just don't want people to see how it performs at those ISO levels when shutter speed is >1s right now. Could be wrong about this though.

[randyfletcher86]

@SLOphoto1 Either way this + not so good AF is probably why I'll end up buying FZ150 in the end.

[SLOphoto1]

@randyfletcher86 Quite a few posters seem to have made the same decision to buy the Panasonic Lumix FZ150 instead of the Canon SX40HS. I think you made a good decision, I wish you the best with your new camera, and I hope you will let us know how you like it. Best Wishes, SLOphoto1

[SLOphoto1]

jez5555: You are correct. There is apparently a version of CDHK for the SX40 that can override this ISO problem. However, that CDHK is at this time still in Alpha release. It has not even gone through Beta testing yet. It is only partially completed, not fully tested, and a rather steep learning curve with using CDHK means it is still not a solution within reach of the average user.

As we both agree, Canon has the responsibility to fix this problem, officially, not a 3rd party provider.

[jez5555]

I agree they do need to officially fix this however the latest version of CHDK for the SX40 can overide the ISO problem and modifiy a few other options. Just type CHDK in google, I use it and it works great.

[SLOphoto1]

The above poster is from Venezuela. He saw the link posted on an internet forum in Spain.

He says, “The user should be able to choose the appropriate configuration for his/her own camera. A message on the LCD as a recommendation that, 'This ISO setting may result in excessive noise,' would be adequate. Putting an actual 'block' against using that setting in Manual Mode is completely 'fuera de lugar,' which is to say, 'out of line, unacceptable.' Canon, needs to fix the firmware."

I agree.

[pelitomanduriduri]

Gracias por exponer tu problema, si bien no es algo grave para todo el mundo, es cierto que ES un problema en esta cámara, porque el usuario debería ser capaz de poder elegir la configuración que se le antoje en su cámara fotográfica. Con una "recomendación" que pusieran en la LCD, sería suficiente, este "bloqueo" está fuera de lugar. Ojalá que pronto la Canon ponga manos en esto con una actualización del firmware.