Bring on the Carbon Pricing, enough with the doom merchant flat earth Boltonian's. Wake up to your selfish brains and accept change, for the better you fools... Keep buying the story funded and backed by coal miners and greedy self interest Philistine's.. Wake up to the future...
you are moron mate , how is carbon dioxide tax is going to change Australia for better ? how much will the earth's temperature change because of this tax ...as Ms.Dillard , you'll very good at shouting empty slogans ...all you labor /green tools not only lack vision but also a brain ? we giving away the natural advantage we are killing are industries, small business and economy ..at least your so called "coal mining Philistine" have some sort of economic sense ..
@sushan257 Insults are a sign of ZERO Class which seems a Right Wing idealogy.. And NO, i have my own brain and i support no lefties nor righties pal, assumptions are.....you know what... Swinger, and i voted Howard in 2007, why? ETS, so who's the MORON? Your LOGIC is like Sun tanning with no sunscreen because no doctor on earth can tell you EXACTLY where the skin cancer will be or IF you'll get it. Philistine's like you continue to expose yourself to the dangers. So we should all too? Fool...
Insults are a sign of ZERO Class? really ? coming from supporter of a party who this had Paul Keating as prime minster ...that is tops . Thats explains lot of about you labor /green supporters who attacked John Howard ( remember the rap against the Howard ) and still attacks Tony Abbott as "Mad Monk", "phony Tony" etc ....the question is we all know that you all Green /Labor supporters and bunch of Morons with out any class .
But the whether or ever you'll clowns will realize that ....it takes stooge green /labor supporter to equate to skin cancer to Global warming , Climate change , Carbon pollution sorry what it is now clean engergy future ...and moron to answer in your analogy , only complete baboon will chop of his head off to save him/her from skin cancer
@sushan257 Indeed, as i said, Howard got my vote, if you can't handle it go have a cry like most Rightwinged flogs, i Swing buddy, my brain is larger then a half sucked tic tac. Again, NOT 1 ECONOMIST agree with Abbott's scheme of TAXING everyone to rebate who? Polluters. To Cap what? Dumb to say we shouldn't do anything when Phony plans to introduce a BIG NEW TAX!!!! Ahh hello? Talk about blind 'rightwinged' faith. Blind indeed, and my example was dumbed down for a childs brain like yours..
you voted for howard when is going down ? so what ? you swing , I am pretty sure from Left to green , green to left , stand by ideology, i no know it is shameful , but have some guts ? i agree about your statement you brain is little bit larger than half sucked tic tac ...that it , other wise you wouldn't use Dillard's vocabulary? Polluters ? since when Co2 become pollutant moron ? here we go again about Cap and trade ? how well has that worked in Europe ?
@sushan257 An economist gave me that analogy, obvious to see why a single digit IQ couldn't see what a good analogy it is. Small brains, like moths to fire, respond to No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, which is the human version of a Fire, and you're the human version of a moth.. Love how you Philistine's like to typecast people who value their enviroment as Leftie or Tree hugger, UK has a Liberal Govt, so to NZ, John Howard was a Liberal, Turnball? All had a price on Carbon..Fool!
of course Economists did give you that Analogy ...with had Brain at least had brain size of full tic tac , you would obviously realize how stupid that is , leave to labor/green moron take advice from a economist regarding global warming ......, since you so big on Howard , probably should Listen to him , when he now says this tax is wrong ..and baboon , UK does not even have Liberal party
@sushan257 Hello, a Swinging voter does what? Need a dictionary? Hurts yeah to think one could change, well sometimes i like chicken vindaloo, sometimes just roasted, in the Keating years WHO ELSE WAS THERE? Howard? We just came out of 20+% Interest rates under Howard or are you too young to even remember the 70's? THANK CHRIST Keating came, opened our Economy, our Banks, said HELLO to Asia, ah hello, Keating BECAME arrogant/stupid, our 1st 3 Surplus's EVER were Paul Keating's, then we SUNK...
Swinging voter does what ?swing from what ever tree you living on , In end Howard left a surplus and now we are in debt ...Tony might not be be the smartest cookie on the block , but i don't think even he would be stupid enough to stuff up strong live cattle industry and put t the farmers on compo ...
@sushan257 Personel Insults idiot, gee its hard debating a inane sloth, you played the MAN 1st, i retorted, Abbott is a Phony and Sexist, again where have you been living? Blind 'rightwinged' faith, Phony is the clown who's RECORDED as saying 'the homeless choose to be homeless' he also has said about Bernie the asbestos victim on deaths door waiting for James Hardie to comensate him, waiting for Bernie to die, Abbott said 'these people are selfish opportunists' so go PRAISE your MAD MONK...
@blueyisblue1 , geez , labor grenee upset over personal insults , this coming from man who worships Keating ,playing the man , just like what labor/green does to Tony Abbott ? brave enough to give it , don't have heart to take it ....Belive what you moron , In Australia " Homeless choose to be Homeless" ..i agree with that ...and as for things said ..i remember some body saying " there will be no carbon tax under government i lead"
@sushan257 Still on the 'leftie'and 'tree hugger'? i ain't either and you wreak of DESPERATION, i work in finance actually so my ability is somewhat advanced. NOT A SINGLE ECONOMIST AGREES WITH YOU OR ABBOTT AND EVERY SINGLE ECONOMIST HAS LAUGHED AT DIRECT ACTION TAX AND POINTED OUT THE LIES, its just the Blind 'rightwinged' Faith deciples of Australia's A1 Court Jester in Abbott proves that if you polish a Turd, some like you Abbottonian's would pay top dollar cause they told you it's Gold..
@blueyisblue1 wreak of DESPERATION? you would probably know much more about than me , Like Dillard now trying to strife free speech ..don't worry about so called economists ... have look at how cap and trade has worked in Europe , with out being Dill , and just because you into Finance , it does not make you an economists...speaking of jesters here few good one that Left me wondering wether laugh to cry , Malaysian deal, lIve cattle debacle , BER , Insulation scheme He he
frist of get a understanding of what real sexism is moron , with out insulting the other victims ...Economists has only backed the idea of a Carbon price not the package ...Dillard's spin may work on morons like you , not the public ...and talking about Economic sense ..how is that white elephant NBN going ? affordable high speed board band , that was slogan right ? the first pricing plans out ..go have look at see how affordable they are ?
@sushan257 And ask Phony Tony the sexist flog about his BIG NEW TAX, ohhh sorry its under the guise of Direct Action Smoke and Mirrors Tax that TAXES everyone to pay Big End of town. Yeah, you Atom splitters really know whats good for us....yeah no worries, bring back Malcolm, a man, a successful businessmen, who, economically backed an ETS, why? Best option and SCOFFED at Abbott's BIG NEW ACTION TAX, so too 100% of economists....I choose the lesser of the two evils, Phony Tony is a Dangleberry!
@blueyisblue1 , Phony Tony ? this coming from Tool who just said "insults are a sign of ZERO Class " , sorry mate i know just realized you were just talking about your self ....sexist ? in which way moron ? calling prime minister who stole a election on false promise a lier all of sudden have become sexist has it ? so all of sudden criticizing government policy is wrong ..geez , just because she is women she gets a free pass ? we better not say anything cause she''ll cry
Tony direct action only costs 720 dollars year ...which is 2 dollars day ? so now all of sudden Green warriors don't want to sacrifice 2 dollars to save earth unless you get compensated ? piss weak fool , I rather pay that then be subjected to toxic tax that could probably leave me unemployed .... ., and ETS ? really you that dumb , have look at how well it worked in Europe fool , it will do you lot of good at least read something or listen to news
@blueyisblue1 , and by the way worship the you called atom spitters ? with out them will be in the economic gutters like the rest of world ...then how come dillard claim that she is a economic genius ? well , Malcolm Tumbell ? well I think one Dillard is sufficient as leader , don't think we need a another Dumbell
@sushan257 Again, Howard (2007 ran with an ETS including petrol), Hunt (wrote a thesis on? Carbon pricing), UK Liberals have one, NZ Liberals have one, so i guess they were in on the CON??? Yeah and Peter Pan lives in Sydney Harbour under the Bridge...Yeah and Germaine Greer wants to be a Male Advocate for Mens Health, and Unicorns exist and looking to be recruited by the GREEN ARMY as they emit no Carbon, yep, we should ALL be Abbottonian's and breed with siblings also. cause Phony says so...
@sushan257 Economic sense? Well 100% of Economists state a Tax in Carbon is BEST for takling Carbon cheaply, most cheap way, economic sense? Ahh unless you live under a rock or read only Murdoch picture Press or Daily Telegraph, or 2GB or MTR, or The Australian, you'd know EVERY Economist agrres with an ETS and EVERY economist LAUGHED at Abbott's Driect Action TAX, so who needs economic sense? Sounds like you couldn't balance a $1 coin let alone an economy... Philistine...
@sushan257 Blah Blah Blah knackers, you obviously need a current issue of the Oxford Dictionary as your spelling is on a par with a Primary School pupil. Yeah, a Swinger Swings, yeah i voted Howard for his ETS, which priced PETROL, but only fools are blind, my point re the other nations is they are ALL Conservatives and lean to where? The Right, i guess Howard, Turnball, Minchin, Hunt (who wrote a thesis on ETS) and those foreigners are ALL in on the Con? Here is where you're a Class 'A' Muppet.
@blueyisblue1 if you want to see a class A Muppet , why don't you go stand in fornt of mirror , you real my puppet who lacks a brain , just act as mouth piece of Dillard ..you voted for ETS , which has not work in Europe, that makes you not only blind but simply a dumb baboon , and about thesis on ETS , it was undergraduate study , if you have steeped on to uni ...you would know that does not mean shit ...since you have been living under a rock , Thatcher has said she was wrong , so has Howard
word about Turnball , he is absolute moron , since you probably live in cave , probably don't have accesses to scientific research ...today peer reviewed thesis has been published that the sea levels are actually going down ...I think you forgot John Hewson who supports the co2 tax ...you can list who ever , but i do own research and form my own opinions , unlike you who eats and vomits what ever comes out from Dillard and Browns back side
@sushan257 Again, stupidity beyond belief, Malaysian deal is wrong, true, Meat Industry? The DEBATE is a price on Carbon, and Liberal's legacy on those issues is FAR worse, inprisoning people on Christmas Island when 99.9% got in at 5 TIMES THE COST to Tax payers to appease the XENOPHOBIC few like yourself is ECONOMIC lunacy, just to appease the rednecks, boats don't bother me, Live Cattle is 15yrs old, 2007 Labor voted in thats 4yrs ago, Liberals/National did NADA for 11yrs, your point Muppet?
@blueyisblue1 ..if you wont muppet you would realize this , under pacific solution boats dropped , under the Malaysia solution boats are still coming , since you are living under a rock there was two yesterday ...well , done as I expected when debate comes to border security , who ever asks for stronger measures label them as red necks , XENOPHOBIC or racists , i would not expect any thing less from labor/green stooge..and how is the christmas island these days ...?
@blueyisblue1 , by the way moron , business leaders have bagged economic management of your precious government , before you bag them , no they are not coal miners, Live cattle 15 years old ? wtf u taking abt ? are you on drugs , i know most green/labor supporters are ... Liberals/National left a surplus , strong economy , only Muppet like you would say they did nothing , my point is we have inept governed who can't even run installation
destroying the economy with their moronic policies , carbon tax or ETS on Australia , would destroy the economy , would do jack shit of economy , may be once in while if you pull your head out of Dillards /Brown arse to breathe , you might as well see these things
@sushan257 You chirp lies my amigo, no peer reviews you speak about, seems you get your info from the Gallileo muppets den, like Monckton when he LIED about his peer review, on closer expection his paper had the caption reading 'this article is has NOT BEEN PEER REVIEWED.. So you pedle lies as per normal, Howard NOR Thatcher have said those things, again more TWISTING truths, i don't like Julia, only ACTION on Carbon, Turnball is a GREAT man and a SUCCESSFUL Businessmen, unlike Phony Abbott...
as said it is not my problem if you choose have your head up Dillard's /Brows arse, other wise you would have probably heard about peer reviewed paper about sea levels that was published today , sorry , My bad , Dillard or brown hasn't quoted it , so you Muppet self would not hear about it ...Monckton mopped the floor with that climate muppet in Canberra , he was quoting research from Richard Linzen ..if at least pulled your head out of Dillards arse last week
@blueyisblue1 you probably know that Howard few interviews last week , where he had attacked co2 tax , and back tracked on his ETS , as for Thatcher she admitted that she was wrong on her biography ..it is not my problem that you do not know these things ..Action On Carbon , why not complete sentence dioxide with out relating to spin ...obviously u like Malcolm , don't know wether he has big arse , for you too put your head inside for it
@sushan257 AGAIN, reciting history VIA Liberal websites, boats didn't stop, redirected, so again, wrong, and XENOPHOBES always hate being exposed as Cronulla rioters as yourself, David Oldfield worked for Abbott and used Abbott's letterheads to begin ONE NATION, ain't history a bitch, XENOPHOBE central you idiots, all Xenophobes lean Right, its a Conservative Mantra, fear of change, fear of aliens, yet my indigenous brothers been dealing with Boat people since 1788... I SMELL your Xenophobia..
@blueyisblue1 well , DIMA says it dropped , i accept word DIMA , over fool who has head stuck inside Dillards arse ...do you have any thing other than empty slogans to shout at when it comes to border protection , so according to your head up in dillards arse logic Abbott's responsible for starting one nation ? nothing is much funnier when white man calls Abborignals his "indigenous brothers" , i got more right call them brothers than white fool ...
@blueyisblue1 if you at least had clue about what you are talking about , you would probably know that under current government immigration rules legal migration is almost impossible ...but it is to much to expect from somebody who 's got his head stuck on some body elses arse ... and word about smell , it is not Xenophobia., it is shit stink Dillard/Brown , that what happens when you choose to stick your head up in other people's behinds
@sushan257 Ahahaha, uneducated Philistine, Meat issue VERY OLD but if you can't read what can i do? Surplus??? Ahahaha Costello spent the profits on Welfare for the Elite, ahahahahahaha. little wonder i Swing as you prove how STUPID Blind Faith is, yeah Keating sucked, Super, 1st Surpluses, gave us Asia that Xenophobic Liberals at the time CRIED like they are now, yeah, seems all ECONOMIC reform came from one side, Left, Turnball is the ONLY one on the Right with a brain, Abbott = Swill peasant
@blueyisblue1 again if you did not have your head stuck inside Dillards arse , you probably would know about reactionary ban imposed by Dillard that actually wrecked industry ..then again look who I am talking too...yeah here we go again with solgans again ...the fact is there was surplus , and rudd spend it like moron , no matter what ever you say or do that will be the fact ..
@sushan257 Debate over with a loser, Xenophobe and ignorant Philistine, enjoy your Steak and 3 Veg life... What a bore you are and inept. Go back to School and learn to spell, may broaden your depleted cranium..
@blueyisblue1 , geez big words , did you learn those when Dillard farted ....NO , you are going ? why is it ? is it time to put your head up in Browns arse ?
@blueyisblue1 so called labor leaders , have they ever run even school canteen ? we have absolute moron as treasure and dimwit as the prime minister ....you are preaching to us asking to believe that a government whom could not even run home insulation scheme successfully . is capable of delivering successful economic change ?
@ossiesixtysix If you're still around here, it's from a great comprehensive series/doco called "Labor in Power", available on DVD and very well done indeed - lots of memories and flashbacks for this 37 year old.
@Hustle74 I would rather listen to The Future Sound of London, Black Box and Prodigy if I wanted to take myself back to the early nineties. Why the fuck would anybody want to relive the utter nightmare that was the Hawke-Keating years. You would need to be back on fucking pills to put yourself through that shit.
@Hossco76 the governments that gave us the greatest growth and prosperity than any government of the modern era? who on earth would want to live through that again ay?, your a dickhead mate, if you actually knew anything about politics you would understand what keating and hawke did, john howard lasted 10 yrs hanging onto the coat tails of the keating era.
paul keating is undeniable the best of the best he came he saw and he done what politicians are scared to do today give the working class a voice we dont need the ABCC we dont need the CCI the employers union and we dont need work choices we need people power to stop all these politicians today destroying workers rights at the end of the day we are the ones that feed the nation with our tax dollars enough of rules and regulations for all workers in this nation of a fair go for all
@luneco100 No we need the Citizens Electoral Council not a mainstream sell out party machine run for the leftist elites like the putrid stain that is the Australian Green/Labor Party.
LABOR IS GOING TO TURN THE BLUE COLLAR WORKERS OF THIS COUNTRY INTO THE POOR WHITE TRASH OF ASIA. NO JOBS - NO HOME OWNERSHIP - NO EQUITY IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY - NO NATIONAL FOOD SUPPLY - NO FUTURE AS A RACE.
WAKE UP TO LABOR WAKE UP AND SEE THE NIGHTMARE THAT IS LABORS ECO FACIST POLICIES WITH THE GREENS.
The Supreme Jerk-off. Australia always had to have a GST, to bring it into line with the rest of the developed world and to fund essential services, not to mention defence and future development ...it did not however "have to have a recession" ...This country will become infinitely better when the unions are burned away from it's shores.
@BorsBaledwyr so than why are people whinging about a carbon tax? the rest of the world is doing it, its no different to the GST only the public arent getting taxed for it like they seem to believe. The recession came and went, it was than followed by a period of undeniable growth, the effect of the reforms moving this country into the modern era, it wasnt due to john howard.
Ben Chifley by far was the best and the most loved! Chif was not only the PM but the Treasurer as well. He was a common man that only wanted to assist those doing it hard! Have a look at the achievements of his government and the ability of his ministers. Paul Keating by far has been the best since! Bring back Chif!
The reality is that conservative politicians of the like of Liberal generally do not have the sense of detachment from reality that Labor do. They call a spade a spade whereas Labor attempt to blind voters and the media with spin. Just look at the common link between the two current Labor governments running both the country and the state of NSW. What do they have in common. Both have been performing badly and have installed female leaders to try and hose down criticism..a little too conveinient
@danielmy08 I'm not going to defend Labor as it's clear as daylight how much control the factions and unions have. But lets not be dishonest, the Liberal party is just as bad. Malcolm Turnbull was the best thing that happened to the party and it was almost as if they said "right he's too much of a Liberal, let's get rid of him." There are people in the Liberal party that seriously should be in One Nation and they consider anyone who disagrees with their views as Left wing, Labor etc
@danielmy08 if that's the way you want to rationalize it go ahead. Didn't Billy McMahon oust John Gorton in a similar way? Granted it was his 2nd term, but he only lasted about a couple of months longer than Rudd.
@danielmy08 Lets see the list of recent history: Brendan Nelson, Malcolm Turnbull, Troy Buswell, Paul Omodei, Matt Birney, Kerry Chikarovski, Peter Collins, Robert Doyle, Dennis Napthine, Jeff Seeney, Rene Hidding, Iain Evans, Martin Hamilton-Smith. Granted that all of these have happened from opposition, but that’s where the Liberals usually are nowadays. I guess this is because they are a less competent and professional political outfit ... who am I leaving out ... Of Course: John Brogden :-)
@richspur2004 ....like I said they were all in opposition so your argument is irrelevant. It does not impinge on democracy when a party in opposition changes leader so i think you are grasping as straws now. Compare that with Bob Hawke, Kevin Rudd, Mark Latham (he gets a special mention even though wasn't PM), then in NSW we have seen Morris Iemma, Nathan Rees and Kristina keneally all in the past 5 years - all with dirty backroom factional deals..especially the last two Premiers.
@danielmy08 What happened to Bob Hawke was common sense and well justified as he promised Keating the leadership and reneged on the deal. Come to think of it, didn't that happen to someone else? ... Oh yes, but in that well justified scenario, the party followed their leader like Lemmings over a cliff while their 2nd in command just sat back in his hammock dreaming of that one glorious day when he would be given the leadership instead of grabbing the prize that was there for the taking!
@danielmy08 Mark Latham was a special case. A very special case indeed LOL. and lets not forget that he resigned due to ill health. I'm counting actual backroom coups. Besides Federal government, the Liberal party have been the opposition party pretty much in all the states for a very long time (until WA2008) so it's not a fair argument to say "That's justified because they're in Opposition." It's easier to justify that they are a less competent and less well organized political outfit.
@danielmy08 Labor on the other hand: Kevin Rudd, Nathan Rees, Morris Iemma, Kim Beazley, Simon Crean ... That's all I can remember from recent history. One PM, a couple of ineffective Opposition Leaders and a couple of NSW Premiers. That doesn't justify it, but it's a very illuminating comparison.
@danielmy08 I know people who are members of the Liberal party and they are ashamed to be associated with it. When people ask them what their political views are, they either say "moderate" or "I support small business" so they don't get put in the neoconservative, nut-job branch. I've even heard a few (mostly women) say that they will vote Labor just to get rid of Abbott. Make no mistake, when it comes to factions both parties are equally guilty as charged.
@danielmy08 Also, as I said in a previous comment, MP's are given huge staff allowances by the federal government. Labor tends to exclusively fill them with people from Trade Unions. The Liberals fill them with people from it's membership as well as conservative institutions (Australians for Constitutional Monarchy and my favorite The Institute for Public Affairs). It's a moot argument but it's always worth repeating whenever you hear the Liberals going on about how Labor is full of trade unions
@richspur2004 So what....is only logical to have staff who are first party members....whereas Labor go for the narrow interest group...it is YOUR argument which is moot. The constitutional monarchy is moot as only a few members belong.
Some politicians drift into "their" world quickly...and some take alot longer...but in realty most usually gravitate towards the said domain over a given time period as they become increasingly entranced by their own importance and sense of grandieur. With regards Keating's demise I would say it was a double whammy in that people saw through his veneer of cultural aloofness and through to the terrible lack of acceptance that many were suffering under record interest rates and unemployment.
And now back to the subject...and in closing...Paul Keating tried to introduce a GST back in the mid 1980's and yet rubbished Hewson for proposing to introduce one in the '93 election. Hypocracy of the highest order.
@danielmy08 Yes, he did introduce a similar tax reform to the GST which was called Option C. If you read The Longest Decade, you'll find out that in 1985, Keating actually leaked the information about it to Howard an hour before he informed his Labor colleagues as an attempt to destabilize Peacock's leadership. It could be argued that Howard actually stole the idea and when Hewson became leader, he ran with a much more radical version of it, but I don't think we want to go there do we :-)
@danielmy08 the main areas Howard can claim victory over Keating are more cultural than economic. Where Keating had a progressive narrative that included things like the Republic, Reconciliation and Australia integrating into Asia (which coincidentally were consistent with his neoliberal economic policies), Howard had a conservative narrative based around a reconstructed history of Australia's past which focused on Religion, Monarchy, Simpson and his Donkey and honoring Sir Donald Bradman ...
@danielmy08 in the end the reason Paul Keating was defeated was because people felt alienated by his cultural narrative and identified more with John Howard's version of Australian history. Rudd was able to get rid of Howard by adopting a very similar strategy to the one in 96. It's the main way political parties win elections these days.
@danielmy08 It's a shame that Keating's progressive vision for Australia has been trampled on because a lot of the social disintegration present in Australian society today comes from the rubbing together of neoconservatism and neoliberalism which are ideologically incompatible and which has become the inherent contradiction of the Liberal party. I suggest reading Waleed Aly's Quarterly Essay "What's Right" which goes into these issues in depth (especially as it relates to climate change)
@danielmy08 what's really interesting is how Gillard is now seen to be incorporating large chunks of Howard's cultural narrative in an obvious attempt to spin it again to her version of Australia (and of course Bob Santamaria Junior will do the same thing in the very unlikely event of his election). Anyway, to sum it all up: the words Howard, Costello and economic genius are an oxymoron and Keating was the greatest Treasurer and one of the most influential PM's in Australian political history.
@richspur2004 The only response I will make is that Labor have realised that Australia's cultutal identity does not make allowances for phoney politicians who live in "their" world...it is why Keating got the boot and why Rudd got the boot. Sadly Howard drifted into this territory with work choices and likewise suffered the same fate. It is simple democracy end of story.
Unions are likewise the reason many local industries have simply found it too difficult to manufacture locally....this argument is not a one policy issue (ie tariffs) there are many and the unions have had a big role to play.
Similarly is why the factional powerbrokers assassinated him last week...because they wanted to intall someone else who may have a better chance of saving their hides at the next election...likewise with Kristina Keneally in NSW. Thankfully Keneally is finished next March and I dare say Gillard will suffer the same fate. People are not that stupid to think one person can change a failed government.
same with Hawke saying no child in poverty would be living in poverty by 1990 etc. They are the biggest bullshitters out and then engineer a whole spin campaign to make it look like they actually "did" achieve something when really they just wasted a great deal of money. Case in point..Kevin Rudd's departing speech last week ( one of the most painful and uninspiring to ever grace -rather insult..my ears). Every sentence starting with "proud of the fact" even saying he had halved homlessness!
Just how "realistic" do you think it was to achieve an exit to the GFC, a binding price on carbon and have an ETS implemented (despite no other country in the world following though with one), a complete takeover of the hospital system etc in one term in office, building 260 child care centres, delivering computers to every child etc etc...it is obvious bullshit and beyond the scope of reality. Labor always pull this kinda crap and then wind up looking like idiots...
And when it boils down, it is more than just a disservice with Labor because that implies they are "trying" to help the worker but are simply "misguided" in how best to achieve outcomes for lower and middle class workers. What Labor is really about, and only ever has been about is getting in power &staying there. Why do you think Kevin Rudd made so many grandiose promises going into the last election.
However with policies like the reduction in tariffs, unfair dismissal, overly generous welfare, excessive taxes and interest rates resulting from poor fiscal management etc etc even the current mining tax debacle...this is the reality of Labor in power and all the aforesaid points are inhibitors to job creation. So while they speak of the worker they really do them a disservice.
Man you can draw any positive from a leader if you look with enough perspective,,,i mean hitler was good because the arms builders of the day would have profited from his grandious military objectives...that would have been a big plus for their economy and jobs...doesn't make the leader any good.
@danielmy08 I would also argue that Keating had a firm grasp on the social impacts of his economic reforms. He didn't push the Republic, Reconciliation, Australia's integration into Asia just because he had some bleeding heart romantic fantasy. He knew that in order for Australia to have long term economic growth, the country had to become apart of the region as opposed to an outpost of British empire in a foreign part of the world. A lot of people in the Liberal party agree with that analysis.
I would also add to the previous list, the aggressive marketing of credit cards (especially to younf people) with high limits which often see people get way over their heads in debt. The result is seeing hoards of young people now declaring bankruptcy and being financially crippled in the most important years of their lives.
@danielmy08 completely correct. I would suggest though that welfare and gun control were social reforms rather than economic ones.
I get annoyed when people give Costello credit for Keating's structural economic reforms. There's no doubt that Costello could manage budgets, but he didn't have Keating's vision. There have been tons of books written on this subject such as The Longest Decade, Unfinished Business, The End of Certainty etc, etc, etc
These were delivered under Howard. So on balance, Howard and Costello delivered as many if not more reforms than Keating. ...on the flip side Kevin Rudd has not delivered ANY reforms since coming to office. I would also say that the complete deregulation of the banking industry has not been without it's negatives. Case in point is their massive profiteering from numerous and excessive fees and charges, raising interest rate independent of reserve and the associated growth in household debt.
Paul Keating was full of clever remarks and hindsight disclaimers but the truth was that Keating oversaw a prolonged recession in this country that was not lifted until Howard got in. Howard and Costello were light years ahead of arrogant, uneducated keating.
@danielmy08 the only major change Howard and Costello did to the Australian economy was the GST. If it wasn't for the structural changes that Keating made to the economy as Treasurer and later as Prime Minister as well as the mining boom, Howard and Costello would have had a nightmare managing the economy. You only have to look at Howard's record as Treasurer in the Fraser government to realise this was the case! Most economists agree that Keating was light years ahead of Howard and Costello.
@richspur2004 ..and under keating there was a record budget deficit which he refused to allowed to publicly known until after Howard won the election..such was his capacity for deception.
@danielmy08 if the deficit was such a bad thing, why is it that in 11 years of office, the only reform that Costello and Howard made to the economy was the GST?
Checkmate!
On top of that, the country would have got out of deficit much sooner had Howard not thrown money at the electorate in the form of tax cuts and middle class welfare. Now Costello might have been the voice of restraint, but he lost the battle, just like he lost the battle for PM. They were no where near Keating's ability!
@richspur2004 There is no checkmate at all you douche...we still have the effect of those structural changes as you put it, along with the mining boom still in full force, yet the (current) Labor government who have been in not even 3 years have managed to once again create a massive budget deficit. This happens every time Labor gets in and there is always some idiot like you who makes excuses for their incompetance. Keating had no tertiary education and therefore no abaility full stop.
@danielmy08 I'm not arguing for the current government because I think they don't understand Keating's structural reforms. They understood the need for fiscal stimulus, but it's clear that a lot of projects haven't gotten value for money (specifically BER).
I think it's very clear from your last response that you are being highly partisan in your comments and if you want to have a reasonable debate, I suggest you don't resort to name calling.
@richspur2004 and as for reforms....this is a word that shoul not be used lightly. They are significant and on average we see only a couple (at most) every decade across ANY of our national portfolios. We had the tax reform with the GST yes, but also gun reform, establishment of furture fund, welfare reform (work for dole), etc.. Reform isn't just about tax my friend.
@danielmy08 last thing I will say is that Costello was excellent at arguing politically. During his time in politics his main argument was very easy to communicate to the public because of it's simplicity: debt bad, no debt good. The counter argument that focusing on debt elimination means that you could miss in investing in long term sustainable growth is harder to make to the lay person who is focused on themselves, hence why Labor never argued Keating's position and Howard won 4 elections.
@richspur2004 Costello was our best ever treasurer, not just in his ability but his sense if wit left keating's for dead. He was very smart and new how to keep the books managed. I don't write off the investing in long term sustainable growth, I just get cynical whenever these "promises" are uttered from the mouths of incompetant Labor politicians. They either never deliver on them or what is delivered is run massively (i repeat masively!!)) overbudget.
@danielmy08 Labor certainly are guilty of going over budget. Gough Whitlam being the best example. Another is the Building the education revolution program which may keep people employed, but the value of the buildings is going to hurt in the long term.
On the other hand before we get too partisan, I suggest you take a look at John Howard's record as Treasurer which will show you that this is not just confined to the Labor Party. Even Costello thought he was hopeless!
@danielmy08 2nd longest serving PM with the weakest opposition the Australian public has ever witnessed.
Rudd didn't exit in disgrace. He was brutally assassinated by a group of heartless union leaders and factional men from Sussex Street. Exiting in disgrace would be losing a Federal election to Tony Abbott who thinks that Bob Santamaria had great economic ideas.
@richspur2004 "weakest opposition"..that is your excuse mate. In a manner beffitting Whitlam pfff where did you pull that load of bs from..everyone knows Labor are the biggest taxing government around ..both federal & state. He only lost his seat cos of workchoices...I did not entirely think this policy was the best for oz but even good pollies make bad calls.
@danielmy08 I pulled that information from books written about the subject and if you go back through the comments you will see which ones I'm specifically referring to. This stuff isn't just being pulled out of thin air like Bob Santamaria Junior (Abbott) seems to be doing at the moment. If you think that Keating never delivered a budget surplus I suggest you look for a youtube video called "Bringing home the bacon" (a phrase Costello stole from Keating in 2006) which is about the 1988 budget.
@richspur2004 ..You know full well the only reason that Keating was able to deliver that (one-off) surplus was due to the sale of a number of commonwealth assets incl. a bank bearing this very name. The budget result was a one off for Labor...I don not know of any others before ...and certainly none since. This was also the same man who presided over a very long recession during the 1990's and left office with a record budget deficit.
@richspur2004 Yes well Keating also presided over some of the highest interest rates and unemployment in Australia's history..both were double digits. There are many complicated reasons for this but Keating's policies had a significant role to play. One in particular was the reduction in import tariffs which saw widespread closures of industries across the country during the 1990's and/or companies taking their manufacturing of various products offshore...a practice which continues to this day.
@danielmy08 there are so many ways to go with this that I can't make up my mind. Probably because you're making an argument that a trade unionist/communist would support. LOL I guess you're no fan of either Margret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan because they did the exact same thing as the Hawke and Keating governments. The only difference in Australia is that we had a party in power that understood the negative effects of neoliberalism and planned accordingly.
@richspur2004 Well on the point of me making a trade unionist argument you have actually hit the nail square on the head (albeit inadvertantly). And it goes like this. Labor are a walking contradiction. They are bankrolled and have their power base in the trade Union, many of their present and past figures infact came from the unions. On face value one would think their policies hence are always in the best interests of workers.
@danielmy08 now you're just trying to point score. LOL I could get into a whole organizational politics argument with you about how MP's are given extremely large staff budgets and most of the figures in the parliamentary Liberal party were either Liberal staffers or heads of conservative institutions (i.e defending constitutional monarchy) which makes the whole Labor trade union movement argument moot, but I think I'd be wasting my time as you're clearly close-minded about these issues.
@danielmy0 Okay, I see where this is going. As soon as Keating becomes too difficult to attack, you go after the current government. If they're so bad, why are we in such a brilliant economic position by comparison to the rest of the world? Never mind! LOL On top of that, I fail to see how I'm a hypocrite when you're the one who was first defending trade unions (through your tariff argument), then attacking them ... Oh okay, the point scoring thing. Fine I'll agree with you on that point :-)
@richspur2004 I never said i was defending trade unions...that was your claim,,not mine. Your argument is getting pretty weak if you are assuming i agree with something only to find that I rubbish it. Tariffs were a policy made by the government, if unions didn't like it so what..doesn't make me an instant socialist because we happened to agree on one point in history. But many of the are inhibitors to job creation are a direct result of the unions ie unfair dismissal etc.
@danielmy08 actually, I'm not really arguing whether you agree with trade unions or not so much as I'm making fun of it. If you're such a big fan of Howard and Costello, you'd be very much against Tariffs. Totally agree about unions being an inhibitor of job creation. As you're going on a rampage at the Labor party's links to unions, I suggest you look up Keating's IR policy which moved Australia from centralized wage fixing to enterprise bargaining and brought in compulsory superannuation.
@danielmy08 for further reading, I strongly recommend Unfinished Business by David Love as well as The Longest Decade by George Megalogenis. There are a many more books on the subject but these are the two main ones in my opinion.
1. According to the Peter Hartcher's book "To The Bitter End" from 2004 - 2007 the budget surplus was around $334 billion (due to the China Boom) of which $314 billion was spent by John Howard on defense and tax cuts in a manner befitting Whitlam. Costello had massive fights with Howard over this which he ultimately lost. (shows how terrific he was)
2. I can't think of a more disgraceful way for a PM to exit, than losing their own seat at an election.
@danielmy08 whoops! The surplus wasn't entirely due to the China boom. It was also due to the robust economy that had been delivered through 23 years of the best economic governance in the world (of which Hawke and Keating did around 85 percent of the heavy lifting).
@richspur2004 ..well why was keating not able to deliver a budget surplus?? Howard delivered one (during and throughout) his tenure...Labor did not...and never do. Checkmate see ya later.
Still remember election night in 1993. Really was a great moment. I still question the current Labor government sometimes, but it gives me a lot of confidence that Keating talks to them.
@theredraven So, most politcians need to to be kept on a leech,term limits are a good thing because it prevents people from becoming too attached to power and losing touch with reality.
The Westminster System is a joke,abolish the govenor general,end ALL TIES with a dysfunctional royal family so Australia can be taken seiously for once.
@fenderboy88 Term limits deprive people of being able to re-elect someone they want to re-elect.
Although if you want to become a republic, go right ahead. It doesn't really change the fact that the Australia's population is mainly British with a different accent does it?
mate term limits are undemocratic. the will of the people should be all that matters when decides who their representatives are. not an arbitrary 'term' system that says ' right you've had a go, now we won't give voters this option anymore'
Curting refused to join "Pig Iron Bob" because Menzies couldn't be trusted. As for divisive, look at some of the long standing economic, diplomatic etc positives that Curtin brought about. Menzies was prepared to be sychophantic to Churchill and sacrifice his own country. Also when Menzies launched the Liberal party in 44, he did it with the Union Jack flying, no sign of the Australian Flag was there. Goes to show where the loyalty of the Conservatives lay!!!
Sorry wewonitfivetimes, but John Curtin is Australia's greatest PM. Keating is close though. And to those who knock Keatings economic record. Have a look at how bad it was under Fraser and Howard. It was worse!!!!!!
I loved Keating, in all but his overall effect on the Australian political landscape. His ascerbic wit, his beautifully hard hitting and highly derogatory commentary of Hewson and Howard, especially. When has the phrase 'Recalcitrant mongrels' ever been used before (or since) in any political forum. Brilliant!
He should have stayed as treasurer though. If that meant victory to Hewson and the Liberals for a few terms, so be it. He'd be great to have around right now.
Had Hewson won the 1993 election, Keating might become the Leader of Opposition or did what Costello is doing now, wait for a couple of years before opportune time came, grabbed it and won the election, becoming the next PM of Australia.
Not a bad idea at all actually. Keating would be PM for a lot longer than he was.
BondBomber's job consists of sealing the farts of conservative politicians and provincial racists in glass jars and organising them in order of human worthlessness. Occasionally, when no one is looking, he takes one down, opens it and takes a long sniff, savouring the odours.
Nice to see you and your respondent are doing all in your substantial powers to raise the level of debate in this country. Instead of taking every opportunity to swear and omit any probative information, you make a point without sounding like a goof.
In case you forgot, this is youtube not a serious forum of political debate. No one cares about the comments made here and any admission of, using your patois, probative information, is likley to be ignored or ridiculed as 'poncy'. BondBomber is just a standard weak troll doing all in his power to disrupt and annoy.
lol yes we're all glad that you put in the hard yards converting files and clicking upload yes now I can watch what like 2 fucking dull as shit videos about Kostya Tszyu thank you you tedious fucking drone!
lol you don't understand that you are completely worthless right - uploading boring arse videos onto youtube does not constitute hard work you pathetic bag of shit! lol but if you want the worst out of life just continue the way you are, I'm sure you'll get what's coming to you and you'll probably enjoy it too!
hahaha *wheeze* I sure showed those lazy pricks! *opens mouth to receive slimy turd of nameless facist overlord, swallows* I could be so lucky! *stifles a tear*
I dislike Labor and support Liberal, but what you have said is incorrect and stupid. Next time get your facts straight before you make such a provocative, audacious comment.
Abbott's 'About Face' tally as @ 8.33pm 21st July 2011 is 5,684 a rise of 6 points from yesterday of 5,678... And rising....
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
Bring on the Carbon Pricing, enough with the doom merchant flat earth Boltonian's. Wake up to your selfish brains and accept change, for the better you fools... Keep buying the story funded and backed by coal miners and greedy self interest Philistine's.. Wake up to the future...
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1
you are moron mate , how is carbon dioxide tax is going to change Australia for better ? how much will the earth's temperature change because of this tax ...as Ms.Dillard , you'll very good at shouting empty slogans ...all you labor /green tools not only lack vision but also a brain ? we giving away the natural advantage we are killing are industries, small business and economy ..at least your so called "coal mining Philistine" have some sort of economic sense ..
sushan257 6 months ago
@sushan257 Insults are a sign of ZERO Class which seems a Right Wing idealogy.. And NO, i have my own brain and i support no lefties nor righties pal, assumptions are.....you know what... Swinger, and i voted Howard in 2007, why? ETS, so who's the MORON? Your LOGIC is like Sun tanning with no sunscreen because no doctor on earth can tell you EXACTLY where the skin cancer will be or IF you'll get it. Philistine's like you continue to expose yourself to the dangers. So we should all too? Fool...
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1
Insults are a sign of ZERO Class? really ? coming from supporter of a party who this had Paul Keating as prime minster ...that is tops . Thats explains lot of about you labor /green supporters who attacked John Howard ( remember the rap against the Howard ) and still attacks Tony Abbott as "Mad Monk", "phony Tony" etc ....the question is we all know that you all Green /Labor supporters and bunch of Morons with out any class .
sushan257 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1
But the whether or ever you'll clowns will realize that ....it takes stooge green /labor supporter to equate to skin cancer to Global warming , Climate change , Carbon pollution sorry what it is now clean engergy future ...and moron to answer in your analogy , only complete baboon will chop of his head off to save him/her from skin cancer
sushan257 6 months ago
@sushan257 Indeed, as i said, Howard got my vote, if you can't handle it go have a cry like most Rightwinged flogs, i Swing buddy, my brain is larger then a half sucked tic tac. Again, NOT 1 ECONOMIST agree with Abbott's scheme of TAXING everyone to rebate who? Polluters. To Cap what? Dumb to say we shouldn't do anything when Phony plans to introduce a BIG NEW TAX!!!! Ahh hello? Talk about blind 'rightwinged' faith. Blind indeed, and my example was dumbed down for a childs brain like yours..
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1
you voted for howard when is going down ? so what ? you swing , I am pretty sure from Left to green , green to left , stand by ideology, i no know it is shameful , but have some guts ? i agree about your statement you brain is little bit larger than half sucked tic tac ...that it , other wise you wouldn't use Dillard's vocabulary? Polluters ? since when Co2 become pollutant moron ? here we go again about Cap and trade ? how well has that worked in Europe ?
sushan257 6 months ago
@sushan257 An economist gave me that analogy, obvious to see why a single digit IQ couldn't see what a good analogy it is. Small brains, like moths to fire, respond to No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, No, which is the human version of a Fire, and you're the human version of a moth.. Love how you Philistine's like to typecast people who value their enviroment as Leftie or Tree hugger, UK has a Liberal Govt, so to NZ, John Howard was a Liberal, Turnball? All had a price on Carbon..Fool!
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1
of course Economists did give you that Analogy ...with had Brain at least had brain size of full tic tac , you would obviously realize how stupid that is , leave to labor/green moron take advice from a economist regarding global warming ......, since you so big on Howard , probably should Listen to him , when he now says this tax is wrong ..and baboon , UK does not even have Liberal party
sushan257 6 months ago
@sushan257 Hello, a Swinging voter does what? Need a dictionary? Hurts yeah to think one could change, well sometimes i like chicken vindaloo, sometimes just roasted, in the Keating years WHO ELSE WAS THERE? Howard? We just came out of 20+% Interest rates under Howard or are you too young to even remember the 70's? THANK CHRIST Keating came, opened our Economy, our Banks, said HELLO to Asia, ah hello, Keating BECAME arrogant/stupid, our 1st 3 Surplus's EVER were Paul Keating's, then we SUNK...
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1
Swinging voter does what ?swing from what ever tree you living on , In end Howard left a surplus and now we are in debt ...Tony might not be be the smartest cookie on the block , but i don't think even he would be stupid enough to stuff up strong live cattle industry and put t the farmers on compo ...
sushan257 6 months ago
@sushan257 Personel Insults idiot, gee its hard debating a inane sloth, you played the MAN 1st, i retorted, Abbott is a Phony and Sexist, again where have you been living? Blind 'rightwinged' faith, Phony is the clown who's RECORDED as saying 'the homeless choose to be homeless' he also has said about Bernie the asbestos victim on deaths door waiting for James Hardie to comensate him, waiting for Bernie to die, Abbott said 'these people are selfish opportunists' so go PRAISE your MAD MONK...
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1 , geez , labor grenee upset over personal insults , this coming from man who worships Keating ,playing the man , just like what labor/green does to Tony Abbott ? brave enough to give it , don't have heart to take it ....Belive what you moron , In Australia " Homeless choose to be Homeless" ..i agree with that ...and as for things said ..i remember some body saying " there will be no carbon tax under government i lead"
sushan257 6 months ago
@sushan257 Still on the 'leftie'and 'tree hugger'? i ain't either and you wreak of DESPERATION, i work in finance actually so my ability is somewhat advanced. NOT A SINGLE ECONOMIST AGREES WITH YOU OR ABBOTT AND EVERY SINGLE ECONOMIST HAS LAUGHED AT DIRECT ACTION TAX AND POINTED OUT THE LIES, its just the Blind 'rightwinged' Faith deciples of Australia's A1 Court Jester in Abbott proves that if you polish a Turd, some like you Abbottonian's would pay top dollar cause they told you it's Gold..
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1 wreak of DESPERATION? you would probably know much more about than me , Like Dillard now trying to strife free speech ..don't worry about so called economists ... have look at how cap and trade has worked in Europe , with out being Dill , and just because you into Finance , it does not make you an economists...speaking of jesters here few good one that Left me wondering wether laugh to cry , Malaysian deal, lIve cattle debacle , BER , Insulation scheme He he
sushan257 6 months ago
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blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1
frist of get a understanding of what real sexism is moron , with out insulting the other victims ...Economists has only backed the idea of a Carbon price not the package ...Dillard's spin may work on morons like you , not the public ...and talking about Economic sense ..how is that white elephant NBN going ? affordable high speed board band , that was slogan right ? the first pricing plans out ..go have look at see how affordable they are ?
sushan257 6 months ago
@sushan257 And ask Phony Tony the sexist flog about his BIG NEW TAX, ohhh sorry its under the guise of Direct Action Smoke and Mirrors Tax that TAXES everyone to pay Big End of town. Yeah, you Atom splitters really know whats good for us....yeah no worries, bring back Malcolm, a man, a successful businessmen, who, economically backed an ETS, why? Best option and SCOFFED at Abbott's BIG NEW ACTION TAX, so too 100% of economists....I choose the lesser of the two evils, Phony Tony is a Dangleberry!
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1 , Phony Tony ? this coming from Tool who just said "insults are a sign of ZERO Class " , sorry mate i know just realized you were just talking about your self ....sexist ? in which way moron ? calling prime minister who stole a election on false promise a lier all of sudden have become sexist has it ? so all of sudden criticizing government policy is wrong ..geez , just because she is women she gets a free pass ? we better not say anything cause she''ll cry
sushan257 6 months ago
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sushan257 6 months ago
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sushan257 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1
Tony direct action only costs 720 dollars year ...which is 2 dollars day ? so now all of sudden Green warriors don't want to sacrifice 2 dollars to save earth unless you get compensated ? piss weak fool , I rather pay that then be subjected to toxic tax that could probably leave me unemployed .... ., and ETS ? really you that dumb , have look at how well it worked in Europe fool , it will do you lot of good at least read something or listen to news
sushan257 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1 , and by the way worship the you called atom spitters ? with out them will be in the economic gutters like the rest of world ...then how come dillard claim that she is a economic genius ? well , Malcolm Tumbell ? well I think one Dillard is sufficient as leader , don't think we need a another Dumbell
sushan257 6 months ago
@sushan257 Again, Howard (2007 ran with an ETS including petrol), Hunt (wrote a thesis on? Carbon pricing), UK Liberals have one, NZ Liberals have one, so i guess they were in on the CON??? Yeah and Peter Pan lives in Sydney Harbour under the Bridge...Yeah and Germaine Greer wants to be a Male Advocate for Mens Health, and Unicorns exist and looking to be recruited by the GREEN ARMY as they emit no Carbon, yep, we should ALL be Abbottonian's and breed with siblings also. cause Phony says so...
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@sushan257 Economic sense? Well 100% of Economists state a Tax in Carbon is BEST for takling Carbon cheaply, most cheap way, economic sense? Ahh unless you live under a rock or read only Murdoch picture Press or Daily Telegraph, or 2GB or MTR, or The Australian, you'd know EVERY Economist agrres with an ETS and EVERY economist LAUGHED at Abbott's Driect Action TAX, so who needs economic sense? Sounds like you couldn't balance a $1 coin let alone an economy... Philistine...
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@sushan257 Blah Blah Blah knackers, you obviously need a current issue of the Oxford Dictionary as your spelling is on a par with a Primary School pupil. Yeah, a Swinger Swings, yeah i voted Howard for his ETS, which priced PETROL, but only fools are blind, my point re the other nations is they are ALL Conservatives and lean to where? The Right, i guess Howard, Turnball, Minchin, Hunt (who wrote a thesis on ETS) and those foreigners are ALL in on the Con? Here is where you're a Class 'A' Muppet.
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1 if you want to see a class A Muppet , why don't you go stand in fornt of mirror , you real my puppet who lacks a brain , just act as mouth piece of Dillard ..you voted for ETS , which has not work in Europe, that makes you not only blind but simply a dumb baboon , and about thesis on ETS , it was undergraduate study , if you have steeped on to uni ...you would know that does not mean shit ...since you have been living under a rock , Thatcher has said she was wrong , so has Howard
sushan257 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1
word about Turnball , he is absolute moron , since you probably live in cave , probably don't have accesses to scientific research ...today peer reviewed thesis has been published that the sea levels are actually going down ...I think you forgot John Hewson who supports the co2 tax ...you can list who ever , but i do own research and form my own opinions , unlike you who eats and vomits what ever comes out from Dillard and Browns back side
sushan257 6 months ago
@sushan257 Again, stupidity beyond belief, Malaysian deal is wrong, true, Meat Industry? The DEBATE is a price on Carbon, and Liberal's legacy on those issues is FAR worse, inprisoning people on Christmas Island when 99.9% got in at 5 TIMES THE COST to Tax payers to appease the XENOPHOBIC few like yourself is ECONOMIC lunacy, just to appease the rednecks, boats don't bother me, Live Cattle is 15yrs old, 2007 Labor voted in thats 4yrs ago, Liberals/National did NADA for 11yrs, your point Muppet?
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1 ..if you wont muppet you would realize this , under pacific solution boats dropped , under the Malaysia solution boats are still coming , since you are living under a rock there was two yesterday ...well , done as I expected when debate comes to border security , who ever asks for stronger measures label them as red necks , XENOPHOBIC or racists , i would not expect any thing less from labor/green stooge..and how is the christmas island these days ...?
sushan257 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1 , by the way moron , business leaders have bagged economic management of your precious government , before you bag them , no they are not coal miners, Live cattle 15 years old ? wtf u taking abt ? are you on drugs , i know most green/labor supporters are ... Liberals/National left a surplus , strong economy , only Muppet like you would say they did nothing , my point is we have inept governed who can't even run installation
sushan257 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1
destroying the economy with their moronic policies , carbon tax or ETS on Australia , would destroy the economy , would do jack shit of economy , may be once in while if you pull your head out of Dillards /Brown arse to breathe , you might as well see these things
sushan257 6 months ago
@sushan257 You chirp lies my amigo, no peer reviews you speak about, seems you get your info from the Gallileo muppets den, like Monckton when he LIED about his peer review, on closer expection his paper had the caption reading 'this article is has NOT BEEN PEER REVIEWED.. So you pedle lies as per normal, Howard NOR Thatcher have said those things, again more TWISTING truths, i don't like Julia, only ACTION on Carbon, Turnball is a GREAT man and a SUCCESSFUL Businessmen, unlike Phony Abbott...
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1
as said it is not my problem if you choose have your head up Dillard's /Brows arse, other wise you would have probably heard about peer reviewed paper about sea levels that was published today , sorry , My bad , Dillard or brown hasn't quoted it , so you Muppet self would not hear about it ...Monckton mopped the floor with that climate muppet in Canberra , he was quoting research from Richard Linzen ..if at least pulled your head out of Dillards arse last week
sushan257 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1 you probably know that Howard few interviews last week , where he had attacked co2 tax , and back tracked on his ETS , as for Thatcher she admitted that she was wrong on her biography ..it is not my problem that you do not know these things ..Action On Carbon , why not complete sentence dioxide with out relating to spin ...obviously u like Malcolm , don't know wether he has big arse , for you too put your head inside for it
sushan257 6 months ago
@sushan257 AGAIN, reciting history VIA Liberal websites, boats didn't stop, redirected, so again, wrong, and XENOPHOBES always hate being exposed as Cronulla rioters as yourself, David Oldfield worked for Abbott and used Abbott's letterheads to begin ONE NATION, ain't history a bitch, XENOPHOBE central you idiots, all Xenophobes lean Right, its a Conservative Mantra, fear of change, fear of aliens, yet my indigenous brothers been dealing with Boat people since 1788... I SMELL your Xenophobia..
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1 well , DIMA says it dropped , i accept word DIMA , over fool who has head stuck inside Dillards arse ...do you have any thing other than empty slogans to shout at when it comes to border protection , so according to your head up in dillards arse logic Abbott's responsible for starting one nation ? nothing is much funnier when white man calls Abborignals his "indigenous brothers" , i got more right call them brothers than white fool ...
sushan257 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1 if you at least had clue about what you are talking about , you would probably know that under current government immigration rules legal migration is almost impossible ...but it is to much to expect from somebody who 's got his head stuck on some body elses arse ... and word about smell , it is not Xenophobia., it is shit stink Dillard/Brown , that what happens when you choose to stick your head up in other people's behinds
sushan257 6 months ago
@sushan257 Ahahaha, uneducated Philistine, Meat issue VERY OLD but if you can't read what can i do? Surplus??? Ahahaha Costello spent the profits on Welfare for the Elite, ahahahahahaha. little wonder i Swing as you prove how STUPID Blind Faith is, yeah Keating sucked, Super, 1st Surpluses, gave us Asia that Xenophobic Liberals at the time CRIED like they are now, yeah, seems all ECONOMIC reform came from one side, Left, Turnball is the ONLY one on the Right with a brain, Abbott = Swill peasant
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1 again if you did not have your head stuck inside Dillards arse , you probably would know about reactionary ban imposed by Dillard that actually wrecked industry ..then again look who I am talking too...yeah here we go again with solgans again ...the fact is there was surplus , and rudd spend it like moron , no matter what ever you say or do that will be the fact ..
sushan257 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1
again I not going reply to your empty slogans , but if you fancy , you can ask malcom , he probably wouldn't mind
having your head up in side his arse
sushan257 6 months ago
@sushan257 Debate over with a loser, Xenophobe and ignorant Philistine, enjoy your Steak and 3 Veg life... What a bore you are and inept. Go back to School and learn to spell, may broaden your depleted cranium..
blueyisblue1 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1 , geez big words , did you learn those when Dillard farted ....NO , you are going ? why is it ? is it time to put your head up in Browns arse ?
sushan257 6 months ago
@blueyisblue1 so called labor leaders , have they ever run even school canteen ? we have absolute moron as treasure and dimwit as the prime minister ....you are preaching to us asking to believe that a government whom could not even run home insulation scheme successfully . is capable of delivering successful economic change ?
sushan257 6 months ago
Paul Keating would have wiped his arse with David Cameron
LiverpoolPaddyC 10 months ago 3
Where was the name of the program this was taken from please?
ossiesixtysix 1 year ago
@ossiesixtysix If you're still around here, it's from a great comprehensive series/doco called "Labor in Power", available on DVD and very well done indeed - lots of memories and flashbacks for this 37 year old.
Hustle74 8 months ago
@Hustle74 Cheers mate, thanks! I'll check it out.
ossiesixtysix 8 months ago
@Hustle74 I would rather listen to The Future Sound of London, Black Box and Prodigy if I wanted to take myself back to the early nineties. Why the fuck would anybody want to relive the utter nightmare that was the Hawke-Keating years. You would need to be back on fucking pills to put yourself through that shit.
Hossco76 8 months ago
@Hossco76 the governments that gave us the greatest growth and prosperity than any government of the modern era? who on earth would want to live through that again ay?, your a dickhead mate, if you actually knew anything about politics you would understand what keating and hawke did, john howard lasted 10 yrs hanging onto the coat tails of the keating era.
raff23 7 months ago
@raff23 Were you masturbating when you wrote that? I pull my dick to that Say Yes to Carbon Tax ad with Cate French Vanilla Ice Cream Cunt Blanchett.
Hossco76 6 months ago
paul keating is undeniable the best of the best he came he saw and he done what politicians are scared to do today give the working class a voice we dont need the ABCC we dont need the CCI the employers union and we dont need work choices we need people power to stop all these politicians today destroying workers rights at the end of the day we are the ones that feed the nation with our tax dollars enough of rules and regulations for all workers in this nation of a fair go for all
luneco100 1 year ago
@luneco100 No we need the Citizens Electoral Council not a mainstream sell out party machine run for the leftist elites like the putrid stain that is the Australian Green/Labor Party.
LABOR IS GOING TO TURN THE BLUE COLLAR WORKERS OF THIS COUNTRY INTO THE POOR WHITE TRASH OF ASIA. NO JOBS - NO HOME OWNERSHIP - NO EQUITY IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY - NO NATIONAL FOOD SUPPLY - NO FUTURE AS A RACE.
WAKE UP TO LABOR WAKE UP AND SEE THE NIGHTMARE THAT IS LABORS ECO FACIST POLICIES WITH THE GREENS.
WAKE UP
Hossco76 8 months ago
The Supreme Jerk-off. Australia always had to have a GST, to bring it into line with the rest of the developed world and to fund essential services, not to mention defence and future development ...it did not however "have to have a recession" ...This country will become infinitely better when the unions are burned away from it's shores.
BorsBaledwyr 1 year ago
@BorsBaledwyr fuck you, unions own
SiliconSlick69 1 year ago
@BorsBaledwyr so than why are people whinging about a carbon tax? the rest of the world is doing it, its no different to the GST only the public arent getting taxed for it like they seem to believe. The recession came and went, it was than followed by a period of undeniable growth, the effect of the reforms moving this country into the modern era, it wasnt due to john howard.
raff23 7 months ago
Ben Chifley by far was the best and the most loved! Chif was not only the PM but the Treasurer as well. He was a common man that only wanted to assist those doing it hard! Have a look at the achievements of his government and the ability of his ministers. Paul Keating by far has been the best since! Bring back Chif!
htram373 1 year ago
Oh Hewson and cakes!
happytreefriendsfan9 1 year ago
@happytreefriendsfan9 HAHAHA. Fucking brilliant call!
jarred160788 1 year ago
My political idol. Back in the days when parliament had a bit of spine. Long live the King.
grahimmy 1 year ago 9
The reality is that conservative politicians of the like of Liberal generally do not have the sense of detachment from reality that Labor do. They call a spade a spade whereas Labor attempt to blind voters and the media with spin. Just look at the common link between the two current Labor governments running both the country and the state of NSW. What do they have in common. Both have been performing badly and have installed female leaders to try and hose down criticism..a little too conveinient
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 I'm not going to defend Labor as it's clear as daylight how much control the factions and unions have. But lets not be dishonest, the Liberal party is just as bad. Malcolm Turnbull was the best thing that happened to the party and it was almost as if they said "right he's too much of a Liberal, let's get rid of him." There are people in the Liberal party that seriously should be in One Nation and they consider anyone who disagrees with their views as Left wing, Labor etc
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 Malcolm Turnbull wasn't an elected PM so there is no comparison.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 if that's the way you want to rationalize it go ahead. Didn't Billy McMahon oust John Gorton in a similar way? Granted it was his 2nd term, but he only lasted about a couple of months longer than Rudd.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@danielmy08 Lets see the list of recent history: Brendan Nelson, Malcolm Turnbull, Troy Buswell, Paul Omodei, Matt Birney, Kerry Chikarovski, Peter Collins, Robert Doyle, Dennis Napthine, Jeff Seeney, Rene Hidding, Iain Evans, Martin Hamilton-Smith. Granted that all of these have happened from opposition, but that’s where the Liberals usually are nowadays. I guess this is because they are a less competent and professional political outfit ... who am I leaving out ... Of Course: John Brogden :-)
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 ....like I said they were all in opposition so your argument is irrelevant. It does not impinge on democracy when a party in opposition changes leader so i think you are grasping as straws now. Compare that with Bob Hawke, Kevin Rudd, Mark Latham (he gets a special mention even though wasn't PM), then in NSW we have seen Morris Iemma, Nathan Rees and Kristina keneally all in the past 5 years - all with dirty backroom factional deals..especially the last two Premiers.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 What happened to Bob Hawke was common sense and well justified as he promised Keating the leadership and reneged on the deal. Come to think of it, didn't that happen to someone else? ... Oh yes, but in that well justified scenario, the party followed their leader like Lemmings over a cliff while their 2nd in command just sat back in his hammock dreaming of that one glorious day when he would be given the leadership instead of grabbing the prize that was there for the taking!
richspur2004 1 year ago
@danielmy08 Mark Latham was a special case. A very special case indeed LOL. and lets not forget that he resigned due to ill health. I'm counting actual backroom coups. Besides Federal government, the Liberal party have been the opposition party pretty much in all the states for a very long time (until WA2008) so it's not a fair argument to say "That's justified because they're in Opposition." It's easier to justify that they are a less competent and less well organized political outfit.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@danielmy08 Labor on the other hand: Kevin Rudd, Nathan Rees, Morris Iemma, Kim Beazley, Simon Crean ... That's all I can remember from recent history. One PM, a couple of ineffective Opposition Leaders and a couple of NSW Premiers. That doesn't justify it, but it's a very illuminating comparison.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@danielmy08 I know people who are members of the Liberal party and they are ashamed to be associated with it. When people ask them what their political views are, they either say "moderate" or "I support small business" so they don't get put in the neoconservative, nut-job branch. I've even heard a few (mostly women) say that they will vote Labor just to get rid of Abbott. Make no mistake, when it comes to factions both parties are equally guilty as charged.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@danielmy08 Also, as I said in a previous comment, MP's are given huge staff allowances by the federal government. Labor tends to exclusively fill them with people from Trade Unions. The Liberals fill them with people from it's membership as well as conservative institutions (Australians for Constitutional Monarchy and my favorite The Institute for Public Affairs). It's a moot argument but it's always worth repeating whenever you hear the Liberals going on about how Labor is full of trade unions
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 So what....is only logical to have staff who are first party members....whereas Labor go for the narrow interest group...it is YOUR argument which is moot. The constitutional monarchy is moot as only a few members belong.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 read "The Education of a Young Liberal" by John Hyde Page and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.
richspur2004 1 year ago
Sadly for Rudd he was already "their" before he even took office hence the exit before even one term was completed.
danielmy08 1 year ago
Some politicians drift into "their" world quickly...and some take alot longer...but in realty most usually gravitate towards the said domain over a given time period as they become increasingly entranced by their own importance and sense of grandieur. With regards Keating's demise I would say it was a double whammy in that people saw through his veneer of cultural aloofness and through to the terrible lack of acceptance that many were suffering under record interest rates and unemployment.
danielmy08 1 year ago
And now back to the subject...and in closing...Paul Keating tried to introduce a GST back in the mid 1980's and yet rubbished Hewson for proposing to introduce one in the '93 election. Hypocracy of the highest order.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 Yes, he did introduce a similar tax reform to the GST which was called Option C. If you read The Longest Decade, you'll find out that in 1985, Keating actually leaked the information about it to Howard an hour before he informed his Labor colleagues as an attempt to destabilize Peacock's leadership. It could be argued that Howard actually stole the idea and when Hewson became leader, he ran with a much more radical version of it, but I don't think we want to go there do we :-)
richspur2004 1 year ago
@danielmy08 the main areas Howard can claim victory over Keating are more cultural than economic. Where Keating had a progressive narrative that included things like the Republic, Reconciliation and Australia integrating into Asia (which coincidentally were consistent with his neoliberal economic policies), Howard had a conservative narrative based around a reconstructed history of Australia's past which focused on Religion, Monarchy, Simpson and his Donkey and honoring Sir Donald Bradman ...
richspur2004 1 year ago
@danielmy08 in the end the reason Paul Keating was defeated was because people felt alienated by his cultural narrative and identified more with John Howard's version of Australian history. Rudd was able to get rid of Howard by adopting a very similar strategy to the one in 96. It's the main way political parties win elections these days.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@danielmy08 It's a shame that Keating's progressive vision for Australia has been trampled on because a lot of the social disintegration present in Australian society today comes from the rubbing together of neoconservatism and neoliberalism which are ideologically incompatible and which has become the inherent contradiction of the Liberal party. I suggest reading Waleed Aly's Quarterly Essay "What's Right" which goes into these issues in depth (especially as it relates to climate change)
richspur2004 1 year ago
@danielmy08 what's really interesting is how Gillard is now seen to be incorporating large chunks of Howard's cultural narrative in an obvious attempt to spin it again to her version of Australia (and of course Bob Santamaria Junior will do the same thing in the very unlikely event of his election). Anyway, to sum it all up: the words Howard, Costello and economic genius are an oxymoron and Keating was the greatest Treasurer and one of the most influential PM's in Australian political history.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 The only response I will make is that Labor have realised that Australia's cultutal identity does not make allowances for phoney politicians who live in "their" world...it is why Keating got the boot and why Rudd got the boot. Sadly Howard drifted into this territory with work choices and likewise suffered the same fate. It is simple democracy end of story.
danielmy08 1 year ago
Unions are likewise the reason many local industries have simply found it too difficult to manufacture locally....this argument is not a one policy issue (ie tariffs) there are many and the unions have had a big role to play.
danielmy08 1 year ago
Similarly is why the factional powerbrokers assassinated him last week...because they wanted to intall someone else who may have a better chance of saving their hides at the next election...likewise with Kristina Keneally in NSW. Thankfully Keneally is finished next March and I dare say Gillard will suffer the same fate. People are not that stupid to think one person can change a failed government.
danielmy08 1 year ago
same with Hawke saying no child in poverty would be living in poverty by 1990 etc. They are the biggest bullshitters out and then engineer a whole spin campaign to make it look like they actually "did" achieve something when really they just wasted a great deal of money. Case in point..Kevin Rudd's departing speech last week ( one of the most painful and uninspiring to ever grace -rather insult..my ears). Every sentence starting with "proud of the fact" even saying he had halved homlessness!
danielmy08 1 year ago
Just how "realistic" do you think it was to achieve an exit to the GFC, a binding price on carbon and have an ETS implemented (despite no other country in the world following though with one), a complete takeover of the hospital system etc in one term in office, building 260 child care centres, delivering computers to every child etc etc...it is obvious bullshit and beyond the scope of reality. Labor always pull this kinda crap and then wind up looking like idiots...
danielmy08 1 year ago
And when it boils down, it is more than just a disservice with Labor because that implies they are "trying" to help the worker but are simply "misguided" in how best to achieve outcomes for lower and middle class workers. What Labor is really about, and only ever has been about is getting in power &staying there. Why do you think Kevin Rudd made so many grandiose promises going into the last election.
danielmy08 1 year ago
However with policies like the reduction in tariffs, unfair dismissal, overly generous welfare, excessive taxes and interest rates resulting from poor fiscal management etc etc even the current mining tax debacle...this is the reality of Labor in power and all the aforesaid points are inhibitors to job creation. So while they speak of the worker they really do them a disservice.
danielmy08 1 year ago
Man you can draw any positive from a leader if you look with enough perspective,,,i mean hitler was good because the arms builders of the day would have profited from his grandious military objectives...that would have been a big plus for their economy and jobs...doesn't make the leader any good.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 I would also argue that Keating had a firm grasp on the social impacts of his economic reforms. He didn't push the Republic, Reconciliation, Australia's integration into Asia just because he had some bleeding heart romantic fantasy. He knew that in order for Australia to have long term economic growth, the country had to become apart of the region as opposed to an outpost of British empire in a foreign part of the world. A lot of people in the Liberal party agree with that analysis.
richspur2004 1 year ago
I would also add to the previous list, the aggressive marketing of credit cards (especially to younf people) with high limits which often see people get way over their heads in debt. The result is seeing hoards of young people now declaring bankruptcy and being financially crippled in the most important years of their lives.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 completely correct. I would suggest though that welfare and gun control were social reforms rather than economic ones.
I get annoyed when people give Costello credit for Keating's structural economic reforms. There's no doubt that Costello could manage budgets, but he didn't have Keating's vision. There have been tons of books written on this subject such as The Longest Decade, Unfinished Business, The End of Certainty etc, etc, etc
richspur2004 1 year ago
These were delivered under Howard. So on balance, Howard and Costello delivered as many if not more reforms than Keating. ...on the flip side Kevin Rudd has not delivered ANY reforms since coming to office. I would also say that the complete deregulation of the banking industry has not been without it's negatives. Case in point is their massive profiteering from numerous and excessive fees and charges, raising interest rate independent of reserve and the associated growth in household debt.
danielmy08 1 year ago
Paul Keating was full of clever remarks and hindsight disclaimers but the truth was that Keating oversaw a prolonged recession in this country that was not lifted until Howard got in. Howard and Costello were light years ahead of arrogant, uneducated keating.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 the only major change Howard and Costello did to the Australian economy was the GST. If it wasn't for the structural changes that Keating made to the economy as Treasurer and later as Prime Minister as well as the mining boom, Howard and Costello would have had a nightmare managing the economy. You only have to look at Howard's record as Treasurer in the Fraser government to realise this was the case! Most economists agree that Keating was light years ahead of Howard and Costello.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 ..and under keating there was a record budget deficit which he refused to allowed to publicly known until after Howard won the election..such was his capacity for deception.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 if the deficit was such a bad thing, why is it that in 11 years of office, the only reform that Costello and Howard made to the economy was the GST?
Checkmate!
On top of that, the country would have got out of deficit much sooner had Howard not thrown money at the electorate in the form of tax cuts and middle class welfare. Now Costello might have been the voice of restraint, but he lost the battle, just like he lost the battle for PM. They were no where near Keating's ability!
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 There is no checkmate at all you douche...we still have the effect of those structural changes as you put it, along with the mining boom still in full force, yet the (current) Labor government who have been in not even 3 years have managed to once again create a massive budget deficit. This happens every time Labor gets in and there is always some idiot like you who makes excuses for their incompetance. Keating had no tertiary education and therefore no abaility full stop.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 I'm not arguing for the current government because I think they don't understand Keating's structural reforms. They understood the need for fiscal stimulus, but it's clear that a lot of projects haven't gotten value for money (specifically BER).
I think it's very clear from your last response that you are being highly partisan in your comments and if you want to have a reasonable debate, I suggest you don't resort to name calling.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 and as for reforms....this is a word that shoul not be used lightly. They are significant and on average we see only a couple (at most) every decade across ANY of our national portfolios. We had the tax reform with the GST yes, but also gun reform, establishment of furture fund, welfare reform (work for dole), etc.. Reform isn't just about tax my friend.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 last thing I will say is that Costello was excellent at arguing politically. During his time in politics his main argument was very easy to communicate to the public because of it's simplicity: debt bad, no debt good. The counter argument that focusing on debt elimination means that you could miss in investing in long term sustainable growth is harder to make to the lay person who is focused on themselves, hence why Labor never argued Keating's position and Howard won 4 elections.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 Costello was our best ever treasurer, not just in his ability but his sense if wit left keating's for dead. He was very smart and new how to keep the books managed. I don't write off the investing in long term sustainable growth, I just get cynical whenever these "promises" are uttered from the mouths of incompetant Labor politicians. They either never deliver on them or what is delivered is run massively (i repeat masively!!)) overbudget.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 Labor certainly are guilty of going over budget. Gough Whitlam being the best example. Another is the Building the education revolution program which may keep people employed, but the value of the buildings is going to hurt in the long term.
On the other hand before we get too partisan, I suggest you take a look at John Howard's record as Treasurer which will show you that this is not just confined to the Labor Party. Even Costello thought he was hopeless!
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 Well Howard redeemed himself with his tenure as the 2nd longest serving PM ever...unlike witlam and Rudd who both exited in disgrace!
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 2nd longest serving PM with the weakest opposition the Australian public has ever witnessed.
Rudd didn't exit in disgrace. He was brutally assassinated by a group of heartless union leaders and factional men from Sussex Street. Exiting in disgrace would be losing a Federal election to Tony Abbott who thinks that Bob Santamaria had great economic ideas.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 "weakest opposition"..that is your excuse mate. In a manner beffitting Whitlam pfff where did you pull that load of bs from..everyone knows Labor are the biggest taxing government around ..both federal & state. He only lost his seat cos of workchoices...I did not entirely think this policy was the best for oz but even good pollies make bad calls.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 I pulled that information from books written about the subject and if you go back through the comments you will see which ones I'm specifically referring to. This stuff isn't just being pulled out of thin air like Bob Santamaria Junior (Abbott) seems to be doing at the moment. If you think that Keating never delivered a budget surplus I suggest you look for a youtube video called "Bringing home the bacon" (a phrase Costello stole from Keating in 2006) which is about the 1988 budget.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 ..You know full well the only reason that Keating was able to deliver that (one-off) surplus was due to the sale of a number of commonwealth assets incl. a bank bearing this very name. The budget result was a one off for Labor...I don not know of any others before ...and certainly none since. This was also the same man who presided over a very long recession during the 1990's and left office with a record budget deficit.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 Keating's record as PM in regards to the deficit:
Budget deficit (underlying cash balance)
1994-95 2.7% of GDP
1995-96 1.9% of GDP
1996-97 1.0% of GDP
If he had of won an extra term, the debt would have been payed off. I strongly suggest you do some reading.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 Yes well Keating also presided over some of the highest interest rates and unemployment in Australia's history..both were double digits. There are many complicated reasons for this but Keating's policies had a significant role to play. One in particular was the reduction in import tariffs which saw widespread closures of industries across the country during the 1990's and/or companies taking their manufacturing of various products offshore...a practice which continues to this day.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 there are so many ways to go with this that I can't make up my mind. Probably because you're making an argument that a trade unionist/communist would support. LOL I guess you're no fan of either Margret Thatcher or Ronald Reagan because they did the exact same thing as the Hawke and Keating governments. The only difference in Australia is that we had a party in power that understood the negative effects of neoliberalism and planned accordingly.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 Well on the point of me making a trade unionist argument you have actually hit the nail square on the head (albeit inadvertantly). And it goes like this. Labor are a walking contradiction. They are bankrolled and have their power base in the trade Union, many of their present and past figures infact came from the unions. On face value one would think their policies hence are always in the best interests of workers.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 now you're just trying to point score. LOL I could get into a whole organizational politics argument with you about how MP's are given extremely large staff budgets and most of the figures in the parliamentary Liberal party were either Liberal staffers or heads of conservative institutions (i.e defending constitutional monarchy) which makes the whole Labor trade union movement argument moot, but I think I'd be wasting my time as you're clearly close-minded about these issues.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 Oh so if my points make more sense than yours and show your claims to be false then I am simply trying to point score...hypocrite.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy0 Okay, I see where this is going. As soon as Keating becomes too difficult to attack, you go after the current government. If they're so bad, why are we in such a brilliant economic position by comparison to the rest of the world? Never mind! LOL On top of that, I fail to see how I'm a hypocrite when you're the one who was first defending trade unions (through your tariff argument), then attacking them ... Oh okay, the point scoring thing. Fine I'll agree with you on that point :-)
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 I never said i was defending trade unions...that was your claim,,not mine. Your argument is getting pretty weak if you are assuming i agree with something only to find that I rubbish it. Tariffs were a policy made by the government, if unions didn't like it so what..doesn't make me an instant socialist because we happened to agree on one point in history. But many of the are inhibitors to job creation are a direct result of the unions ie unfair dismissal etc.
danielmy08 1 year ago
@danielmy08 actually, I'm not really arguing whether you agree with trade unions or not so much as I'm making fun of it. If you're such a big fan of Howard and Costello, you'd be very much against Tariffs. Totally agree about unions being an inhibitor of job creation. As you're going on a rampage at the Labor party's links to unions, I suggest you look up Keating's IR policy which moved Australia from centralized wage fixing to enterprise bargaining and brought in compulsory superannuation.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@danielmy08 for further reading, I strongly recommend Unfinished Business by David Love as well as The Longest Decade by George Megalogenis. There are a many more books on the subject but these are the two main ones in my opinion.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@danielmy08 Last 2 points I'll make
1. According to the Peter Hartcher's book "To The Bitter End" from 2004 - 2007 the budget surplus was around $334 billion (due to the China Boom) of which $314 billion was spent by John Howard on defense and tax cuts in a manner befitting Whitlam. Costello had massive fights with Howard over this which he ultimately lost. (shows how terrific he was)
2. I can't think of a more disgraceful way for a PM to exit, than losing their own seat at an election.
richspur2004 1 year ago
@danielmy08 whoops! The surplus wasn't entirely due to the China boom. It was also due to the robust economy that had been delivered through 23 years of the best economic governance in the world (of which Hawke and Keating did around 85 percent of the heavy lifting).
richspur2004 1 year ago
@richspur2004 ..well why was keating not able to deliver a budget surplus?? Howard delivered one (during and throughout) his tenure...Labor did not...and never do. Checkmate see ya later.
danielmy08 1 year ago
John Hewson to Paul Keating: "Why wont you call an early election?". Keating to Hewson: "Because, mate, I wanna do you slowly.........". HA HA HA!!!!
AntipodeanStar 1 year ago
Still remember election night in 1993. Really was a great moment. I still question the current Labor government sometimes, but it gives me a lot of confidence that Keating talks to them.
austguy33 1 year ago
Republic is a non issue, so stop trying to make it one.
Baledwyr 1 year ago
Bob hawke was and is a Fabian so is most of the Labor party..
ASPAustralia 1 year ago
This is why we should have fixed terms,PM s never choose thier timing right.
8 years should be enough for a political leader,why would you want to serve anymore than that?
fenderboy88 1 year ago
@fenderboy88 Some people can go for more than 8 years. Look at Lord Liverpool in Britain. He only stepped down after 15 years because of ill health.
theredraven 1 year ago
@theredraven So, most politcians need to to be kept on a leech,term limits are a good thing because it prevents people from becoming too attached to power and losing touch with reality.
The Westminster System is a joke,abolish the govenor general,end ALL TIES with a dysfunctional royal family so Australia can be taken seiously for once.
fenderboy88 1 year ago
@fenderboy88 Term limits deprive people of being able to re-elect someone they want to re-elect.
Although if you want to become a republic, go right ahead. It doesn't really change the fact that the Australia's population is mainly British with a different accent does it?
theredraven 1 year ago
mate term limits are undemocratic. the will of the people should be all that matters when decides who their representatives are. not an arbitrary 'term' system that says ' right you've had a go, now we won't give voters this option anymore'
AussiePolitics 1 year ago
3:00 lol
cfm343 1 year ago
Curting refused to join "Pig Iron Bob" because Menzies couldn't be trusted. As for divisive, look at some of the long standing economic, diplomatic etc positives that Curtin brought about. Menzies was prepared to be sychophantic to Churchill and sacrifice his own country. Also when Menzies launched the Liberal party in 44, he did it with the Union Jack flying, no sign of the Australian Flag was there. Goes to show where the loyalty of the Conservatives lay!!!
mtp0202 1 year ago 3
@mtp0202 The Australian Flag?
You mean the Union Jack with some glitter stars thrown on next to it?
theredraven 1 year ago
If that was what Keating's victory speech was like, I've GOTTA see Hewson's concession speech.
jarred160788 1 year ago
Sorry wewonitfivetimes, but John Curtin is Australia's greatest PM. Keating is close though. And to those who knock Keatings economic record. Have a look at how bad it was under Fraser and Howard. It was worse!!!!!!
mtp0202 2 years ago 15
Australia's greatest ever PM.
wewonitfivetimes1 2 years ago 3
the Liberal Party are a Disaster
In opposition everywhere except W.A.
hahahahaha.
sydneygayboi 2 years ago
And that's still more than they deserve.
jarred160788 2 years ago
They'll win in 2013
supremerat 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
keating was a self obsessed wanka..he loved his own shadow.
figs1984 2 years ago
Bring back those days, Keating was a legend, sarcastic humor, deadly wit and took no prisoners.......entertaining !
WeekendLovr 2 years ago 3
Sometimes I wish Hewson had won in '93. That would've meant no Howard.
aardmark85 2 years ago 3
I loved Keating, in all but his overall effect on the Australian political landscape. His ascerbic wit, his beautifully hard hitting and highly derogatory commentary of Hewson and Howard, especially. When has the phrase 'Recalcitrant mongrels' ever been used before (or since) in any political forum. Brilliant!
He should have stayed as treasurer though. If that meant victory to Hewson and the Liberals for a few terms, so be it. He'd be great to have around right now.
mathewdeering 2 years ago 2
Had Hewson won the 1993 election, Keating might become the Leader of Opposition or did what Costello is doing now, wait for a couple of years before opportune time came, grabbed it and won the election, becoming the next PM of Australia.
Not a bad idea at all actually. Keating would be PM for a lot longer than he was.
cfm343 2 years ago
Flamey comments abound!
daveyork0 2 years ago
Comment removed
BondBomber 2 years ago
why don't you go commit some hate crimes about it , you worthless stinking Tory cunt
MassiveJungle 2 years ago
Comment removed
BondBomber 2 years ago
eat a bag of shit cuntface!
MassiveJungle 2 years ago
Comment removed
BondBomber 2 years ago
kill yourself you miserable conservative Shitlord!
MassiveJungle 2 years ago
BondBomber's job consists of sealing the farts of conservative politicians and provincial racists in glass jars and organising them in order of human worthlessness. Occasionally, when no one is looking, he takes one down, opens it and takes a long sniff, savouring the odours.
MassiveJungle 2 years ago
Comment removed
BondBomber 2 years ago
Nice to see you and your respondent are doing all in your substantial powers to raise the level of debate in this country. Instead of taking every opportunity to swear and omit any probative information, you make a point without sounding like a goof.
ninjz 2 years ago
In case you forgot, this is youtube not a serious forum of political debate. No one cares about the comments made here and any admission of, using your patois, probative information, is likley to be ignored or ridiculed as 'poncy'. BondBomber is just a standard weak troll doing all in his power to disrupt and annoy.
MassiveJungle 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Ha ha ha
Weak labor lazy bastard !
Go and do some work, you bludger !
ha ha hah ha ha ha
Have you worked out any new entitlements pursuant in your official job as lazy labor prick ?
ha ha ha ha
BondBomber 2 years ago
lol I got an official writ to kick your worthless, stinking boil-covered old racist arse back into the festering sheep dip you came from
MassiveJungle 2 years ago
Ha ha ha ha ! I guess that's another one of your entitlements under the new Workplace laws eh ?
Labor - the party of the bums ! !!
BondBomber 2 years ago
Massive Jungle, Typical Labor bum, no video uploads, just comes in here, uses and leaves, like his fellow scum !
BondBomber 2 years ago
lol yes we're all glad that you put in the hard yards converting files and clicking upload yes now I can watch what like 2 fucking dull as shit videos about Kostya Tszyu thank you you tedious fucking drone!
MassiveJungle 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Ha ha ha ha
You are another lazy labor bum !
LAZY ! BUM !! GIMME MY ENTITLEMENTS!!!
Ha ha ha, lazy prick.
BondBomber 2 years ago
lol you don't understand that you are completely worthless right - uploading boring arse videos onto youtube does not constitute hard work you pathetic bag of shit! lol but if you want the worst out of life just continue the way you are, I'm sure you'll get what's coming to you and you'll probably enjoy it too!
hahaha *wheeze* I sure showed those lazy pricks! *opens mouth to receive slimy turd of nameless facist overlord, swallows* I could be so lucky! *stifles a tear*
MassiveJungle 2 years ago
LOL!! Couldn't agree with you more. 5% inflation & was still steadily going up under Keating's leadership. Plus high unemployment
yourgasm 2 years ago
I dislike Labor and support Liberal, but what you have said is incorrect and stupid. Next time get your facts straight before you make such a provocative, audacious comment.
symons3569 2 years ago
Pull your pants up abit higher over your belly Button eh mate ?
BondBomber 2 years ago
Wtf?
symons3569 2 years ago
Comment removed
BondBomber 3 years ago