Google it. It was a popular sketch show about 5 years ago from Matt Lucas and David Walliams. Had lots of stereotypes of Brits, such as the 'chav' Vicky Pollard ("Yeah but no but yeah but no but").
SBC was satirizing stereotypes. That was the entire humor for me, that people would buy such obvious nonsense was what made me laugh, so much so that the people of Kazakhstan complaining that he got it wrong was actually funnier for than the actual character!
06:54 "National stereotypes are dangerous because we live in a multi-cultural country." That doesn't make sense. Surely that negates any truth of a stereotype and reduces it to merely a funny concept.
However, If think what he meant to say was that: For politicians it is dangerous to make such stereotypical assumptions about voters and the society for which they are trying to govern.
@jw2327 I think they mean that WE live in a multi-cultural country, so foreign national stereotypes are dangerous because the functioning of our society now depends on understanding foreign cultures beyond simple one-dimensonial caricatures.
How is the black character in the Bubbles sketches stereotypical? She's portrayed (I think) as more or less the same as Bubbles, particularly in the things which make her amusing. Being a black character played by a white actor makes her funny for the same reason being a woman played by a man does: it makes her deliberately absurd.
As much as I like Stewart Lee, he is a bit all over the place when it comes to this particular issue (or political correctness in general). Anyone who's staunchly in favour of it would have an issue with Little Britain, and would certainly not be as huge a fan of Jerry Sadowitz - possibly the most politically incorrect comedy act there is.
I don't know, personally I think you can laugh at anything. It's more a distinction between whether the joke's good or not rather than what's acceptable.
I once read a book called the grand tour by Christopher Hippert. It's basically a book that points out that the people of Europe even 300 years ago lived up to their stereotypes. As long as the sixteenth century travelers were describing the Italians as voluble, unreliable and hopelessly corrupt, the Germans as gluttonous, the Swiss as irritatingly officious and tidy, and the French as being, well, French.
Not relevant to the discussion maybe, but hoped people would find it interesting.
What's objectionable about stereotypes is not their mere existence but the way in which they are sometimes used to completely reduce a distinctive individual or group to that stereotype in people's minds, and it is even more objectionable when the reductive label is both damaging and misleading, for example when a stable, law-abiding Scotsman is publicly portrayed as a violent homeless alcoholic.
The example of Tory Boy William Hague is not like this because it is damaging and wholly accurate.
@Clembo Prometheus gave us fire right? Its a useful gift, without it we wouldn't be able to...um....put a giant cross on the lawn of people different from us and set it alight.
Diane Abbot doesn't represent a multi-cultural society. She comes across as a self-centred and ill-informed opinionated bigot. Which is kind of ironic....
@BottomBoosh Copy/Paste: Alan Gordon Partridge is a fictional television and radio presenter portrayed by English comedian Steve Coogan and invented by Coogan, Armando Iannucci, Stewart Lee and Richard Herring for the BBC Radio 4 programme On The Hour.
How I Escaped My Certain Fate is quite cheap now on amazon, as well as being a work of honest genius. As a lifelong bandit of digital media, the great work that is Milder Comedian is the only thing that has shamed me into actualy buying a dvd, and the fact that his other shows are not easily torrentable means that at some point I'l probly buy them too. Cheeky bastard.
@derdriui I'm not sure he did really...he just didn't criticize it, which I would have expected him to (and I'm sure he would in different circumstances).
@mikapromotesobesity the reason that is more acceptable is that whites are not an oppressed minority. There is a very nasty and visceral history behind the oppression of blacks (slavery, claims of white genetic, cultural and intellectual superiority etc) that they have had to fight very hard to push back, presenting a bigoted view of them is pretty much dragging all that old colonialism and racism back to the forefront and slapping them with it. It's just not cool. Besides I'm going to hedge my
Diane Abbot believes so little in black stereotypes that she made sure her son was sent to a school containing many less black pupils than the one he would have gone to had she not been able to pay the fees involved.
Black comedians also stereotype themselves frequently....many the top ones feature black-stereotype jokes as a major part of their routine, which you would know if you've ever actually watched one properly (i'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark here & suggest you probably haven't).
you can see at 5:30 Stew is thinking "you ignorant twat, go die in a hole, don't try and relate to me because you think your mind works on a similar level to mine, being a comedian and all" in his ironic manner mocking her tiny brain
Stewart Lee could hold his own on any T.V show, and enrich the experience. It's a shame that petty people have been actively keeping him from working because they don't like him or his opinions. Get him on Q.I, email the beeb demanding it.
@ZZKe7 although it's probably a safe assumption since Little Britain lacks the ability to move beyond stereotypes - it doesn't have actual "characters"
Yes, all the inhabitants of every country can be reduced to a single set of characteristics. The Americans are all fat and don't get irony, the French are all surly and cowardly, the Germans are all efficient and humourless, the Italians are all libidinous and don't wear crash helmets on their scooters and the Welsh chomp on leeks, bother sheep and are all called Jones, and so on and so on, ad nauseum.
something outrageous for shock value, with total knowledge that the material is ridiculous. Characters like Borat aren't making fun of people from middle eastern countries, but rather a western stereotype view of what they think someone from that part of the world is like. And really below the surface lies something very thoughtful and hilarious at the same time. But it is totally up to audience interpretation.
True but then there's plenty of comedians floating around usually on mid-level circuits who use the ironic thing to just do mind-boggling routines. Admittedly these usually aren't stereotype bits, but its the same backlash against PC in some vague post-modern thing that means a trip to a comedy club almost guarantees a rape gag. As you mentioned 'shock value' is paramount, its just a lot of comics seem to think that's good enough without anything beyond it.
that explanation implicity conceeds that the majortiy of people DO perceive vast swathes of humanity through such crass means of generalisation.
Borat was a mainstream film released to the widest possible audience in this country; if everyone understood the film as a subversive pastiche on someone else's 'narrow-minded view of the world', wouldn't that assert that such narrow-minded people don't actually exist?
the point is that, Borat was issued on general release with the full awareness that a vast majority of its intended audience already possessed the same distorted stereotype of the world, which the film only further sought to propagate.
If this weren't true, the creators surely would have had a blank slate to work from. Why weren't the Kazakhs portrayed as some green-skinned, cloud-dwelling, fantastical super-beings?
I'm saying that stereotypes exist, as much as they are a matter of sweeping generalisation, if you know 3 people from Russia and 2 of those people don't like Ribena, then statistically speaking you could take on the view that most Russians don't like Ribena and you tour the country with jokes about how Russians don't like ribena. But it's when you try to explain how ridiculous that concept of 'Russians not liking ribena' that people can laugh at their own views and maybe begin to empathise with
others who fall into their chosen category of generalisation and prejuidice.
I understand what you're saying when you say that if everyone understood the subtle 'social mirror' that is put up by Cohen, then who is the film making fun of if everyone 'gets it', if not the stereotypes of middle eastern society?
Well perhaps the people of whom the fun is directed at, are the people watching for the knob gags.
What I'm saying is that such people may well be watching it for the knob gags, but at the same time, their generalised and ill-conceived preconceptions are to them, seemingly being validated and reinforced by the film.
Where the moral justification argument for Borat falls down, is due to the fact that, having watched the film, nobody leaves with their own personal views challenged to the point of invoking a change in attitudes.
Those 'enlightened' enough to understand the 'social mirror' (and I would contest this description, since it suggests a means to reflect on one's own personal beliefs - assuming you are a part of society), go home smug in the knowledge that they have free licence to look down on those incapable of critical self-awareness.
And those who see nothing beyond the denotational value of the film, go home contented in the idea that their alreayd elementary thoughts about Kz have been fleshed out.
I totally see what you are saying, so what party do you fall into? Is there some middle ground to your spectrum of audience response?
Would you agree that 'Borat' relies on prejudice and misconceptions to achieve 'cheap' laughs at someone elses expense? I'm just trying to get an idea of what your personal views are.
But I don't think it give people licence to 'look down' on those who don't seem to be able to self criticise.
I beleive that you have challenged my views surrounding this particular film, and it's interesting to see someone elses take on a something that has been covered in controversy.
I can see that you obviously think that I have some kind of 'I'm better than everyone', self righteous issues, but I really am just trying to understand and empathise with every view point, regardless of what I personally think. Also I take it that you don't like 'borat'? Haha (just to get that totally straight)
No, it's actually wonderfuly refreshing to see someone on the Internet, let alone Youtube, being thoughtful enough to consider and give a coherent response to the matter at hand.
These things so often turn into a barrage of ad-hominem insult slinging matches.
In a way, your personal conduct here, seems to deconstruct my point about people willing to leave themselves open to be challenged!
As for my personal view, I think my thoughts about the film must indicate having a rather low opinion of humankind.
Of course, the great irony of this is that I'm not exempt from these limited mental parameters I project onto people. I'm being just as stubborn and unflinching in my beliefs, as those who I seek to criticise.
But in order to make life tolerable, I have to regard this approach of self-criticism as the 'objectively' correct means of comprehending erm... life.
In a nutshell - If social and moral norms (which affects ow we view ourselves and others) is a relative phenomenon, then surely, the only 'fixed' (albeit paradoxical) rule we can hope to have is to understand the very real prospect the fallibility of our own values.
As a film, I just feel Borat seems to entrench these beliefs, rather than challenge them - regardless of which ideological starting point you're coming from.
And rather frustratingly, that very entrenchment also applies to me.
At the risk of indulging in youtube comment discussions, I differ with your perception of Borat. (I think). Whilst overly long, I found it masterful not only comedicly but also in it's surgical analysis of modern human life/awareness. The film did not look to propogate stereotypes in my view, but to turn them around. I see you've had this conversation already.
But I found and generally find baron sasha cohen's comedy to lift the lid on modern notions of identity and values in a somewhat profound way. But alas I have met people who saw the film and missed the point. I don't think you can criticise the film for having hope in it's audience. Anyway, blah blah blah.
@Replay107 But does your audience know that the material is intentionally ridiculous, or are you just giving them confirmation of the ridiculous stereotypes they believe in?
Now using stereotypes in comdey has branched away from basically making fun of someone due a factor that is out of their control, e.g race, deformaty etc. It has been swept around so jokes are made about people's choices, factors in their lives that they can alter. But at the same time alot of comedians today take the old stereotypes from the past, like race related jokes and reference them in an ironic fashion, laughing at how ridiculous comdedians like Bernard Manning really were, by saying...
Given that Stewart Lee is usually so sharp, his contribution here seems shockingly limp. All stereotypes are potentially dangerous because they arise from a human need to demonise the 'other'. Borat is funny when he interacts with, say, Americans, because in that situation the alien stereotype is being used to exposed racism, or the way that people prefer to pander to ignorance than cause offence. But when Borat is just Borat, it's just as bad as Jim Davidson or any other 1970s throwback.
She's an irritating, ugly fat bitch with a face like a dropped pie. If her skin was white, she would still be an irritating, ugly fat bitch with a face like a dropped pie.
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I had to add the black bit though, so that police can easily identify her if she commits a crime. Because by the time I research her actual ethnicity she would have fled the country and got away with it.
qwertyuiopdan1 ?/ Dude you've just heard what you wanted to hear. She doesn't say anything to complain about a black character?? You need some Brown love man.
god damn that black woman is an absolute bitch i hate people like that she is complaining that there is a black character in it ... and yet i can imagine she would complain if there wasnt too fucks sake argh
a- "I hope this isnt libellous" seeing as though libel can only concern accusations WRITTEN DOWN, Im pretty sure what she is saying isnt libellous. Obviously she means slander, but thinks her (poorly constructed) vocabulary is interchangeable.
b- Having a black character in Little Britain doesnt mean it is an offensive black stereotype! I hate this attitude, if a black character happens to have negative traits it is instantly a 'racial stereotpye'. Fat idiot.
Yes, she is definitely confused as to what is pejorative and what is inoffensive.
I would love to hear her opinion on Obama. I suspect she thinks of him as "one of us" or "an achievement for black people" even though he is an individual who just happens to be black. She will somehow manage to create a tenuous race-related link between her own worthless self and one of the world's most powerful men. I dont know who I dislike more, her or her equally reprehensible cohort Portillo
Theres a certain ambiguity on the term "massive". Do you mean it in the hyperbolic sense or are you simply noting her weight? Either way you are right so you get a thumbs up.
Co-creater of Alan Partridge? Is that right? I thought it was Armando Ianucci, Steve Coogan and David Schneider. I know he wrote for the Day to Day along with Richard Herring but I didn't think he wrote for 'Alan Partridge' or could be credited for the creation of his character (though I might be wrong)
As I understand it, the creation of the sports desk presenter was sometime of a free for all brainstorming session. Which would explain why so many of the writers are given some level of credit.
It is still possible to use stereotypes for comic effect, especially when writer and audience are laughing at the stereotype (see the Simpsons). It's when stereotypes are used to cement hatred of other races or sexualities that they need controlling - I'm sure you wouldn't be in favour of giving a radicalist muslim cleric comedian a platform to whip up hatred. Underlying Davidson's routine is the message "I hate poofs, don't you? I hate pakis, don't you? I fear and hate women, don't you?".
I can't agree. He destroys Richard Littlejohn (and the latter's "tireless quest for the correct labelling of dead women") in that routine with humour and intelligence.
I doubt SL is NuLab judging by this interview. Diane Abbott says New Labour's triumph is that the stereotypical member is no longer a geography teacher in a duffle coat, whereas SL replies that this NuLab's great failing. He's old labour.
I'm sure you could still find Jim Davidson's hilarious "chalky" routines on Betamax.
Anyone know what Andrew Neill says that makes Slee answer "Nah!" and then burst out laughing? I guess it's something along the lines of "Maybe Jim Davidson likes the black comedian's comedy/is not racist anymore."
Trust me. he is sill racist. I have seen some recent stuff but he is trying to keep it on the low due to an uproar that would take effect. he doesnt hate black people never has. but what he says he doesnt think about as other people would
Oh don't get me wrong, I am under no illusion that Jim Davidson could, or ever would, change and become acceptable to society. I haven't got a pro-Davidson angle. I just can't tell what Andrew Neill asks him in the interview. I'm going to see Stew doing stand-up next week. Yay!
I guess Stewart Lee is actually knowledgeable. In his stand-up, it's something he likes to keep people guessing about.
handsomebrick 1 day ago
Dianne Abbot is very opposed to stereotypes and all generalisations.
23Stork 1 week ago
That woman is the kind of tosser that looks for anything to be offended by.
qwertyuiopdan1 2 weeks ago
What's "Little Britain"?
baffo27 3 weeks ago
@baffo27
Google it. It was a popular sketch show about 5 years ago from Matt Lucas and David Walliams. Had lots of stereotypes of Brits, such as the 'chav' Vicky Pollard ("Yeah but no but yeah but no but").
christhemountain 2 weeks ago
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baffo27 3 weeks ago
I wonder if Diana abbot will rewatch this video.
puretroubleman 3 weeks ago
SBC was satirizing stereotypes. That was the entire humor for me, that people would buy such obvious nonsense was what made me laugh, so much so that the people of Kazakhstan complaining that he got it wrong was actually funnier for than the actual character!
seansalvador1 3 weeks ago
@seansalvador1 exactly, Sacha was doing just that. Unfortunately some people aren't intelligent enough to realise that!
bababoum 3 weeks ago
Terry Christian has let himself go
fujorfunk 3 weeks ago 2
@fujorfunk
Crumpled Morrisey.
KD Lang has let 'himself' go ;)
seansalvador1 3 weeks ago
Leonardo DiCaprio has let himself go,badly
Gallucciboy23 1 month ago
Politics Today - aka when hair transplants go wrong
MrBoBoTom 1 month ago
06:54 "National stereotypes are dangerous because we live in a multi-cultural country." That doesn't make sense. Surely that negates any truth of a stereotype and reduces it to merely a funny concept.
However, If think what he meant to say was that: For politicians it is dangerous to make such stereotypical assumptions about voters and the society for which they are trying to govern.
jw2327 1 month ago 2
@jw2327 I think they mean that WE live in a multi-cultural country, so foreign national stereotypes are dangerous because the functioning of our society now depends on understanding foreign cultures beyond simple one-dimensonial caricatures.
i7omahawki 1 day ago
Keith Chegwin has really let himself go.
Giovanni222 1 month ago
That Leonardo DiCaprio has let himself go....
ZaPpaul 1 month ago 2
Black women fighting naked on the floor is a stereotype?
Keltibarian 2 months ago 3
the Labour Party are socialists???!!
RudiVanDizzario 3 months ago
@RudiVanDizzario socialist democratic party well they're meant to be
longhairedbuck 1 month ago
DIANE ABBOTT PLEASE OPEN YOUR EYES WHEN YOU TALK
ugh
furQ 3 months ago
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"You wont find uz peddling crass stereotypes here in the-this weeks studio."
Except Dianne Abbott: The stereotypical black racist.
Also, notice how a BBC presenter uses the term "negative" stereotypes; whatever that means.
Also notice how British society is SERIOUSLY stereotyped as stereotyping "all youths as yobs".
FourSquareEyes 3 months ago
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FourSquareEyes 3 months ago
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FourSquareEyes 3 months ago
How can Diane Abbott be against stereotypes when she keeps doing that shit impression of an upper class white woman.
3gmatt1 3 months ago 15
Why has he got worms on his head?
robertdee 4 months ago
This host needs to shut up a bit more often.
richfrommitch 5 months ago
Head directly to 2:02 for Stewart Lee...move along now, nothing to see here!
lukessummerguitar 5 months ago
Stewart Lee looked at Ken Clarke like he was planning on getting up and pissing on him.
FlyingHeadbutt100 5 months ago 2
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Stewart Lee's smugness is very irritating
Deanocfc 6 months ago
I think Stewart Lee supports political correctness because it helped to get rid of nasty racism and sexism in general opinion.
I think whether something is genuinely politically incorrect has something to do with how much discrimination has been seen in the past or present...
MrSkinnycrab 6 months ago 7
How is the black character in the Bubbles sketches stereotypical? She's portrayed (I think) as more or less the same as Bubbles, particularly in the things which make her amusing. Being a black character played by a white actor makes her funny for the same reason being a woman played by a man does: it makes her deliberately absurd.
MisterAlexGabriel 6 months ago
As much as I like Stewart Lee, he is a bit all over the place when it comes to this particular issue (or political correctness in general). Anyone who's staunchly in favour of it would have an issue with Little Britain, and would certainly not be as huge a fan of Jerry Sadowitz - possibly the most politically incorrect comedy act there is.
I don't know, personally I think you can laugh at anything. It's more a distinction between whether the joke's good or not rather than what's acceptable.
MrVinushka 7 months ago 2
Stewart Lee, philosopher & probably the most intelligent and perceptive comic ever.
logicallunatic1 7 months ago 6
I once read a book called the grand tour by Christopher Hippert. It's basically a book that points out that the people of Europe even 300 years ago lived up to their stereotypes. As long as the sixteenth century travelers were describing the Italians as voluble, unreliable and hopelessly corrupt, the Germans as gluttonous, the Swiss as irritatingly officious and tidy, and the French as being, well, French.
Not relevant to the discussion maybe, but hoped people would find it interesting.
atomicbreaker 7 months ago
What's objectionable about stereotypes is not their mere existence but the way in which they are sometimes used to completely reduce a distinctive individual or group to that stereotype in people's minds, and it is even more objectionable when the reductive label is both damaging and misleading, for example when a stable, law-abiding Scotsman is publicly portrayed as a violent homeless alcoholic.
The example of Tory Boy William Hague is not like this because it is damaging and wholly accurate.
FrogmortonHotchkiss 8 months ago
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i love stewart lee's gaze at kenneth clarke when he's going on about steptoe. DAGGERS
rustygerv 8 months ago
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rustygerv 8 months ago
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rustygerv 8 months ago
I already had respect for the guy, but... he co-created fucking Alan Partridge, the modern day Prometheus of Norfolk.
Clembo 8 months ago 3
@Clembo Prometheus gave us fire right? Its a useful gift, without it we wouldn't be able to...um....put a giant cross on the lawn of people different from us and set it alight.
EbsNhexz 7 months ago
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Stewart Lee is a smug twat.
waylander1978 8 months ago
@waylander1978 waylander1978 is a confrontative, whiny cunt.
Jordarnm 8 months ago
Diane Abbot doesn't represent a multi-cultural society. She comes across as a self-centred and ill-informed opinionated bigot. Which is kind of ironic....
gl4n 9 months ago 2
@gl4n Very well said. I totally agree.
lovelyjubbaly 2 months ago
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happens to be black
Franky000 9 months ago
Did he say Stew wrote Alan Partridge?
BottomBoosh 10 months ago
@BottomBoosh Copy/Paste: Alan Gordon Partridge is a fictional television and radio presenter portrayed by English comedian Steve Coogan and invented by Coogan, Armando Iannucci, Stewart Lee and Richard Herring for the BBC Radio 4 programme On The Hour.
de1evo 9 months ago
@de1evo Ah, The Hour.
BottomBoosh 9 months ago
all black people commit crime.
Mattelliott1234 10 months ago
How I Escaped My Certain Fate is quite cheap now on amazon, as well as being a work of honest genius. As a lifelong bandit of digital media, the great work that is Milder Comedian is the only thing that has shamed me into actualy buying a dvd, and the fact that his other shows are not easily torrentable means that at some point I'l probly buy them too. Cheeky bastard.
McHanraohanrahan 11 months ago
It didn't make sense for Stewart Lee to defend Borat for racial stereotyping.
derdriui 11 months ago
@derdriui I'm not sure he did really...he just didn't criticize it, which I would have expected him to (and I'm sure he would in different circumstances).
rulesandwisdom 11 months ago
look at diane abbott trying to school stewart lee about comedy.
massiveants 11 months ago 3
@massiveants agreed.. made me cringe a bit too.. she's always so full of herself
SpitRoastTV 11 months ago
@StuartG001 bets and presume that the black comedians you were referring too are JOKING :P
StuartG001 1 year ago
@mikapromotesobesity the reason that is more acceptable is that whites are not an oppressed minority. There is a very nasty and visceral history behind the oppression of blacks (slavery, claims of white genetic, cultural and intellectual superiority etc) that they have had to fight very hard to push back, presenting a bigoted view of them is pretty much dragging all that old colonialism and racism back to the forefront and slapping them with it. It's just not cool. Besides I'm going to hedge my
StuartG001 1 year ago 2
Diane Abbot believes so little in black stereotypes that she made sure her son was sent to a school containing many less black pupils than the one he would have gone to had she not been able to pay the fees involved.
Wow.
eezysqueezy 1 year ago 5
oh dear! I'm Welsh and Ginger!
geneclart1 1 year ago
I can't think of an african american comedian that isn't a racist. They all do the "white guy" stereotype and then add racial slurs.
mikapromotesobesity 1 year ago
@mikapromotesobesity
:/
Black comedians also stereotype themselves frequently....many the top ones feature black-stereotype jokes as a major part of their routine, which you would know if you've ever actually watched one properly (i'm gonna take a wild stab in the dark here & suggest you probably haven't).
Stop looking for problems that don't exist.
supahdupahguy81 8 months ago
Love Stewart Lee.
He gets in his usual dig of Jim Davidson here
cleverandrew123 1 year ago
the black guys annoying
alexhamster1134 1 year ago
Stuart Lee not a Ken Clarke fan I think...
Evalesco1 1 year ago 17
@Evalesco1 Stewart Lee
arseymcpherson 1 week ago
I'm going to stereotype all people who close their eyes when they speak as cunts.
Zttbm 1 year ago
I need to watch more os Stewart Lee debating
12345l6789 1 year ago
Diane, just because somebody does a black character it doesn't make it a stereotype. You clearly don't know what stereotype means.
bodnotbod 1 year ago 2
She's an idiot.
SethHesio 1 year ago
How is that woman on the tele? She is actually so stupid.
LukeGriffths121 1 year ago
How fat is Ken Clarke?
newatomicmike 1 year ago
Too much make up on Stewart Lee's face!
emrys84 1 year ago
Stereotype or Caricature.
samcatsam 1 year ago
I love Andrew Neil.
foxyfaefife 1 year ago
you can see at 5:30 Stew is thinking "you ignorant twat, go die in a hole, don't try and relate to me because you think your mind works on a similar level to mine, being a comedian and all" in his ironic manner mocking her tiny brain
Henry1993bc 1 year ago
I hate this stupid programme. But I love Stewart Lee.
Katamarang 1 year ago 3
pc is fantastic is you realise its value
but once against its taken to far and causes greater problems that good
ORALORALSEX 1 year ago
Stewart Lee could hold his own on any T.V show, and enrich the experience. It's a shame that petty people have been actively keeping him from working because they don't like him or his opinions. Get him on Q.I, email the beeb demanding it.
jacksawild 1 year ago
She needs to learn the difference between a black stereotype and a comedy that has a black guy in it.
ZZKe7 1 year ago 95
@ZZKe7 spot on
liiiiiiiiiike 10 months ago
@ZZKe7 although it's probably a safe assumption since Little Britain lacks the ability to move beyond stereotypes - it doesn't have actual "characters"
01AlanBennett 7 months ago
@ZZKe7 Yeah, what a bimbo!
SendInTheChickens 4 months ago
oh i just adore stewart lee.
CaptainTrina 1 year ago 4
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where do stereotypes come from eh?? left wing wankers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
xXCelticwarriorXx1 1 year ago
@xXCelticwarriorXx1
With your comment you facilitate the stereotype against right-wingers.
Bask in the irony, sir.
p3rs0nan0ngrata 1 year ago
@xXCelticwarriorXx1 shut up you ginger cunt! haha
Henry1993bc 1 year ago
I wish someone would just roundhouse kick Andrew Neil off a building. What a twat.
XionXi 1 year ago
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Yes, all the inhabitants of every country can be reduced to a single set of characteristics. The Americans are all fat and don't get irony, the French are all surly and cowardly, the Germans are all efficient and humourless, the Italians are all libidinous and don't wear crash helmets on their scooters and the Welsh chomp on leeks, bother sheep and are all called Jones, and so on and so on, ad nauseum.
fieldingmellish44 2 years ago
@fieldingmellish44 i was actualy lookin forward to you opinnion about canadiens lol
ebolateralus 1 year ago
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fieldingmellish44 2 years ago
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The English are too dull to be steryotyped cos theyre just so bland,dull,staid and repressed
chrisjoneschrisjones 2 years ago
That is the most hilarious comment on YouTube that I've read in ages! It's delightfully irony-filled!
planetyes 2 years ago
@chrisjoneschrisjones I hope that was intended with irony.
Janoslechner 2 years ago
@Janoslechner hope away by all means
chrisjoneschrisjones 2 years ago
stewart Lee is so insightful!
jrh767 2 years ago 4
something outrageous for shock value, with total knowledge that the material is ridiculous. Characters like Borat aren't making fun of people from middle eastern countries, but rather a western stereotype view of what they think someone from that part of the world is like. And really below the surface lies something very thoughtful and hilarious at the same time. But it is totally up to audience interpretation.
Replay107 2 years ago 5
True but then there's plenty of comedians floating around usually on mid-level circuits who use the ironic thing to just do mind-boggling routines. Admittedly these usually aren't stereotype bits, but its the same backlash against PC in some vague post-modern thing that means a trip to a comedy club almost guarantees a rape gag. As you mentioned 'shock value' is paramount, its just a lot of comics seem to think that's good enough without anything beyond it.
JapeUK 2 years ago
that explanation implicity conceeds that the majortiy of people DO perceive vast swathes of humanity through such crass means of generalisation.
Borat was a mainstream film released to the widest possible audience in this country; if everyone understood the film as a subversive pastiche on someone else's 'narrow-minded view of the world', wouldn't that assert that such narrow-minded people don't actually exist?
In which case, who are you laughing at?
lopsided75 2 years ago
the point is that, Borat was issued on general release with the full awareness that a vast majority of its intended audience already possessed the same distorted stereotype of the world, which the film only further sought to propagate.
If this weren't true, the creators surely would have had a blank slate to work from. Why weren't the Kazakhs portrayed as some green-skinned, cloud-dwelling, fantastical super-beings?
lopsided75 2 years ago
I'm saying that stereotypes exist, as much as they are a matter of sweeping generalisation, if you know 3 people from Russia and 2 of those people don't like Ribena, then statistically speaking you could take on the view that most Russians don't like Ribena and you tour the country with jokes about how Russians don't like ribena. But it's when you try to explain how ridiculous that concept of 'Russians not liking ribena' that people can laugh at their own views and maybe begin to empathise with
Replay107 2 years ago
others who fall into their chosen category of generalisation and prejuidice.
I understand what you're saying when you say that if everyone understood the subtle 'social mirror' that is put up by Cohen, then who is the film making fun of if everyone 'gets it', if not the stereotypes of middle eastern society?
Well perhaps the people of whom the fun is directed at, are the people watching for the knob gags.
Replay107 2 years ago
What I'm saying is that such people may well be watching it for the knob gags, but at the same time, their generalised and ill-conceived preconceptions are to them, seemingly being validated and reinforced by the film.
Where the moral justification argument for Borat falls down, is due to the fact that, having watched the film, nobody leaves with their own personal views challenged to the point of invoking a change in attitudes.
lopsided75 2 years ago
Those 'enlightened' enough to understand the 'social mirror' (and I would contest this description, since it suggests a means to reflect on one's own personal beliefs - assuming you are a part of society), go home smug in the knowledge that they have free licence to look down on those incapable of critical self-awareness.
And those who see nothing beyond the denotational value of the film, go home contented in the idea that their alreayd elementary thoughts about Kz have been fleshed out.
lopsided75 2 years ago
I totally see what you are saying, so what party do you fall into? Is there some middle ground to your spectrum of audience response?
Would you agree that 'Borat' relies on prejudice and misconceptions to achieve 'cheap' laughs at someone elses expense? I'm just trying to get an idea of what your personal views are.
But I don't think it give people licence to 'look down' on those who don't seem to be able to self criticise.
Replay107 2 years ago
I beleive that you have challenged my views surrounding this particular film, and it's interesting to see someone elses take on a something that has been covered in controversy.
I can see that you obviously think that I have some kind of 'I'm better than everyone', self righteous issues, but I really am just trying to understand and empathise with every view point, regardless of what I personally think. Also I take it that you don't like 'borat'? Haha (just to get that totally straight)
Replay107 2 years ago
No, it's actually wonderfuly refreshing to see someone on the Internet, let alone Youtube, being thoughtful enough to consider and give a coherent response to the matter at hand.
These things so often turn into a barrage of ad-hominem insult slinging matches.
In a way, your personal conduct here, seems to deconstruct my point about people willing to leave themselves open to be challenged!
lopsided75 2 years ago
As for my personal view, I think my thoughts about the film must indicate having a rather low opinion of humankind.
Of course, the great irony of this is that I'm not exempt from these limited mental parameters I project onto people. I'm being just as stubborn and unflinching in my beliefs, as those who I seek to criticise.
But in order to make life tolerable, I have to regard this approach of self-criticism as the 'objectively' correct means of comprehending erm... life.
lopsided75 2 years ago
In a nutshell - If social and moral norms (which affects ow we view ourselves and others) is a relative phenomenon, then surely, the only 'fixed' (albeit paradoxical) rule we can hope to have is to understand the very real prospect the fallibility of our own values.
As a film, I just feel Borat seems to entrench these beliefs, rather than challenge them - regardless of which ideological starting point you're coming from.
And rather frustratingly, that very entrenchment also applies to me.
lopsided75 2 years ago
At the risk of indulging in youtube comment discussions, I differ with your perception of Borat. (I think). Whilst overly long, I found it masterful not only comedicly but also in it's surgical analysis of modern human life/awareness. The film did not look to propogate stereotypes in my view, but to turn them around. I see you've had this conversation already.
DanielFrisbee 2 years ago
But I found and generally find baron sasha cohen's comedy to lift the lid on modern notions of identity and values in a somewhat profound way. But alas I have met people who saw the film and missed the point. I don't think you can criticise the film for having hope in it's audience. Anyway, blah blah blah.
All the best,
Daniel
DanielFrisbee 2 years ago 2
@Replay107 But does your audience know that the material is intentionally ridiculous, or are you just giving them confirmation of the ridiculous stereotypes they believe in?
Dipstikk 1 year ago
Now using stereotypes in comdey has branched away from basically making fun of someone due a factor that is out of their control, e.g race, deformaty etc. It has been swept around so jokes are made about people's choices, factors in their lives that they can alter. But at the same time alot of comedians today take the old stereotypes from the past, like race related jokes and reference them in an ironic fashion, laughing at how ridiculous comdedians like Bernard Manning really were, by saying...
Replay107 2 years ago
Lol, even though it's only four years ago, it feels like a totally different era.
NotHomelessAnymore 2 years ago
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what a boring smug, twat stewart lee is, like the sound of your own voice much? ah well at least he's cancelled now, well done bbc
MrSeppo2010 2 years ago
They didn't cancel him you fucking idiot. Comedy Vehicle was only supposed to be a 6 episode series.
x
Brunkie 2 years ago 5
Given that Stewart Lee is usually so sharp, his contribution here seems shockingly limp. All stereotypes are potentially dangerous because they arise from a human need to demonise the 'other'. Borat is funny when he interacts with, say, Americans, because in that situation the alien stereotype is being used to exposed racism, or the way that people prefer to pander to ignorance than cause offence. But when Borat is just Borat, it's just as bad as Jim Davidson or any other 1970s throwback.
wouldacouldabuddha 2 years ago 3
and you clearly a Cunt!
Ganjamule 2 years ago
id never really considered the fact that political correctness did encourage a new wave of comedy. thank god for pc
peternixon 2 years ago 3
blimey left wingers contradict themselves PC yes PC no Black no Kasacstarn yes
edward6000 2 years ago
That's the first time I've seen Stewart Lee really laugh.
destructorcreator 2 years ago 2
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"The program hasn't got a black stereotype, has it?"
"Yes it has got a black character..."
Stupid black bitch. Is that racist? Because she is black, and she is a bitch.
meu02136 2 years ago
yes it is, because the fact that she's black seems important enough to you to mention it. if she was white would you say "stupid white bitch"?
methogonzo 2 years ago 6
Ok then, she's a stupid fat bitch.
meu02136 2 years ago 2
wonderful.
methogonzo 2 years ago 6
She's an irritating, ugly fat bitch with a face like a dropped pie. If her skin was white, she would still be an irritating, ugly fat bitch with a face like a dropped pie.
wobjob 2 years ago
i would
samsmith09 2 years ago
if you imply shes a bitch because shes black, its racist, if you just mean shes both then its not. But keeping the meanings apart can be hazy.
seamuslowe 2 years ago 4
and she is indeed stupid.
I'd leave out the black bit though its just not necessary
BelvisTheFirst 2 years ago
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I had to add the black bit though, so that police can easily identify her if she commits a crime. Because by the time I research her actual ethnicity she would have fled the country and got away with it.
meu02136 2 years ago
cunt
TheNorthernScum 2 years ago
far too short,,,, shame , interesting disscussion
paulspydar 2 years ago 8
qwertyuiopdan1 ?/ Dude you've just heard what you wanted to hear. She doesn't say anything to complain about a black character?? You need some Brown love man.
Markdorman 2 years ago 3
god damn that black woman is an absolute bitch i hate people like that she is complaining that there is a black character in it ... and yet i can imagine she would complain if there wasnt too fucks sake argh
qwertyuiopdan1 2 years ago
what a dreadful woman,promoted way above her abilities.
msuperegg77 2 years ago 2
chubby stewart lee >___________
TropicalTV 2 years ago
Stew I like your laugh.
jobe129 2 years ago 3
That woman is an idiot.
a- "I hope this isnt libellous" seeing as though libel can only concern accusations WRITTEN DOWN, Im pretty sure what she is saying isnt libellous. Obviously she means slander, but thinks her (poorly constructed) vocabulary is interchangeable.
b- Having a black character in Little Britain doesnt mean it is an offensive black stereotype! I hate this attitude, if a black character happens to have negative traits it is instantly a 'racial stereotpye'. Fat idiot.
dodoegg1 2 years ago 4
Comment removed
barnskiano 2 years ago
she will be probably be one of the annoying stupid black people who think that the word "black" is offensive etc what a bitch
qwertyuiopdan1 2 years ago 2
Yes, she is definitely confused as to what is pejorative and what is inoffensive.
I would love to hear her opinion on Obama. I suspect she thinks of him as "one of us" or "an achievement for black people" even though he is an individual who just happens to be black. She will somehow manage to create a tenuous race-related link between her own worthless self and one of the world's most powerful men. I dont know who I dislike more, her or her equally reprehensible cohort Portillo
dodoegg1 2 years ago
She's also a massive hypocrite
mgrh001 2 years ago 3
Theres a certain ambiguity on the term "massive". Do you mean it in the hyperbolic sense or are you simply noting her weight? Either way you are right so you get a thumbs up.
dodoegg1 2 years ago 3
oh well i wasn't thinking about her weight but now you mention it..
mgrh001 2 years ago
I love the image of the BBC legal team spitting out their 11 o'clock coffee : "Andrew, stop this bitch - now!"
PurushaDesa 3 years ago 4
Co-creater of Alan Partridge? Is that right? I thought it was Armando Ianucci, Steve Coogan and David Schneider. I know he wrote for the Day to Day along with Richard Herring but I didn't think he wrote for 'Alan Partridge' or could be credited for the creation of his character (though I might be wrong)
jarzhinio 3 years ago 3
As I understand it, the creation of the sports desk presenter was sometime of a free for all brainstorming session. Which would explain why so many of the writers are given some level of credit.
Snufkinfrazer 3 years ago 3
And On the Hour as well, which is (obviously) brilliant.
brn20 2 years ago
Don't forget Peter Baynham!
DexterAndCromwell 3 years ago
Partridge goes back to On the Hour, and both Lee and Herring were writers and wrote a lot of the Partridge material
b0b1919 2 years ago 3
Stuart Lee is the man.
jobe129 3 years ago 26
I think SL is a very funny guy but I think this shows he's also really intelligent (which is also obvious from a lot of his material)
ePeterRobinson 3 years ago 7
Andrew Neil is an annoying twat.
Stewart Lee is a total legend. His reaction to the idea of Jim Davidson having changed his racist bigoted ways is hilarious
SanTelmo1981 3 years ago 6
brillant clip and brillant common sense
stewart lee 17years a comic wow i am old i remember fist of fun like it was yesterday along with the mary whitehouse experance
asifsmartie 3 years ago 5
the Mary Whitehouse Experience was Briliant.
Fist of Fun, i thought that was yesterday XD
Eldritchard 3 years ago 2
"I hope this isn't libelous."
No. Might be slanderous, though.
Profeshian 3 years ago 2
The "dumb blonde" is a stereotype: obviously every blonde is not stupid, its just a crude generalisation.
Slayer100 3 years ago
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Stewart Lee is a contemptible NuLab little prick. See the YT vid with him defending Political Correctness. He is about as funny as a melanoma.
AtaxiaNox 3 years ago
With comments like that, you only prove his point.
Scottmachin 3 years ago 22
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Nice to see you on this side of someone in favor of speech control. Did you go to the Frankfurt School?
AtaxiaNox 3 years ago
People shouldn't be allowed to insult people on that level... with that horrible historical context.
I would hardly describe Stewart Lee as New Labour either. He's far more left. Boycotting Nestle? New Labour would shudder at that.
saveourcity 3 years ago 7
He couldnt be new labour, hes a socialist lol
XD
Eldritchard 3 years ago 2
It is still possible to use stereotypes for comic effect, especially when writer and audience are laughing at the stereotype (see the Simpsons). It's when stereotypes are used to cement hatred of other races or sexualities that they need controlling - I'm sure you wouldn't be in favour of giving a radicalist muslim cleric comedian a platform to whip up hatred. Underlying Davidson's routine is the message "I hate poofs, don't you? I hate pakis, don't you? I fear and hate women, don't you?".
yorksauce 2 years ago
I didn't realise Richard Littlejohn had a YouTube account.
kingfelch 3 years ago 6
He wasn't defending political correctness, he was defending common decency and a world where people aren't ignorant and racist.
meu02136 2 years ago 4
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god you're stupid, stewart lee gets the stupid people onside, typical. the stupid people who are so stupid they think they're smart.
MrSeppo2010 2 years ago
From your eloquent riposte, I'd hate to be on the 'smart' side.
meu02136 2 years ago 3
I can't agree. He destroys Richard Littlejohn (and the latter's "tireless quest for the correct labelling of dead women") in that routine with humour and intelligence.
I doubt SL is NuLab judging by this interview. Diane Abbott says New Labour's triumph is that the stereotypical member is no longer a geography teacher in a duffle coat, whereas SL replies that this NuLab's great failing. He's old labour.
I'm sure you could still find Jim Davidson's hilarious "chalky" routines on Betamax.
yorksauce 2 years ago
I'm glad to see them use a blur song.
margheritapizza 3 years ago 5
Especially with the myriad of other stereotype-related songs they had to choose from.
Thisnameistaken11 3 years ago 7
I appreciate any blur song that isn't country house charmless man etc. being used
margheritapizza 3 years ago 3
the shit that comes out of Andrew Neil's mouth...
chrisso4050 3 years ago 8
Anyone know what Andrew Neill says that makes Slee answer "Nah!" and then burst out laughing? I guess it's something along the lines of "Maybe Jim Davidson likes the black comedian's comedy/is not racist anymore."
jenosw 4 years ago
Trust me. he is sill racist. I have seen some recent stuff but he is trying to keep it on the low due to an uproar that would take effect. he doesnt hate black people never has. but what he says he doesnt think about as other people would
whiteratprime 4 years ago
Oh don't get me wrong, I am under no illusion that Jim Davidson could, or ever would, change and become acceptable to society. I haven't got a pro-Davidson angle. I just can't tell what Andrew Neill asks him in the interview. I'm going to see Stew doing stand-up next week. Yay!
jenosw 4 years ago