War of 1812 (clip)

[princessrose17]

ah, the war of 1812. the only time Canada and the USA were on opposite sides.

and not unrelated, Canada kicked the American's ass (and burned down part of the white house)

[Eddythebeast666]

@princessrose17 The Fenian raids & Revolutionary War also saw British Canada & the USA on opposite sides.

[slizzler1]

Like I said- I have no sympathy for either govt.- they were both oppressive regimes. There's no excuse for 'impressing' into the Navy -> the USA had such a practice too called 'shaghai-ing' -done by criminal gangs working for shipping coys.Kidnapping and forced servitude is amongst the worst of crimes against humanity> 'malice and contempt' for such barbarity is not even in the same league as ways to describe that cowardly act by the British- procured victims in their harsh military/ Navy.

[Eddythebeast666]

@slizzler1 First the American sailors were not being treated any worse then British sailors subjected to Impressment so the issue was "American sovereignty". It was NOT a question humane treatment or even the morality of impressment. I just re-read Madison's speech & call to war & while he does go in to the ethics in his plea it is in sharp contrast to the demand in the treaty of Ghent that Briton return the slaves we had freed while searching US ships. The US were not the champions of Freedom.

[slizzler1]

@Eddythebeast666

It's not about 'treated any worse'.

Let me put it this way- you're on a voyage home on a merchant ship heading for a family reunion/ or a sailor heading back home for shore leave- happy at the thoughts- then a warship stops your ship. You're not at war, but the Marines on the warship force you onto their ship and tell you that you are now a sailor and you could die as a forced sailor from that point on- by endless hazards of sea or in battle.

The kidnapping is a crime.

[Eddythebeast666]

@slizzler1 Yes but the slaves chained in the cargo hold of that sailors ship are perfectly legal by US law & Briton had to pay compensation for freeing them. I personally would rather serve in the navy then be property. As for Black Loyalists part of my family actually owned slaves "Written in the Book of Negroes" I've met descendants who still carry my families name in Nova Scotia as much as the treatment of freed slaves sucked none ever considered themselves better off as slaves.

[slizzler1]

@Eddythebeast666

Once again

I'm not criticizing slaves being freed- I never implied that.

I stated clearly how ex-slaves faced discrimination as a historical note- to balance any ideas that they always melted in well into the Loyalist societies as free persons. Obviously you know about Freetown in Nova Scotia- as one such example.

I should note here that I research blacks in Western history and I'd like any in depth pms you wish to send me on the topic that you are familiar with.

[slizzler1]

@Eddythebeast666

"The US were not the champions of Freedom."

I'm not sure if you completely read my prior comments. I stated I'm not on either side nor favouring either government. Both governments were Empire bullying pricks. I'm talking about travelers at sea losing their freedom after being taken captive by a Navy not even at war with the ships they are terrorizing.

I know very well about slaves freed, or given freedom in exchange for Loyalist service for/by Britain.

[slizzler1]

@Eddythebeast666

I don't know if I still have the reference somewhere, but there is an interesting resource showing what happened to many 'freed' Loyalist black ex-slaves who were brought back to London England after fighting in the American Revolution as Loyalists. They were destitute and homeless, and government officials debated for/ against rounding them up and sending/ deporting them to Africa. All was not rosy for all freed slaves in the Loyalist domain.

[Eddythebeast666]

@slizzler1 My family has far too much blood on our hands to point fingers or pass judgement for anyone else's wrongs. I do wish to point out that in declaring war in 1812 the Americans of the day were making exactly such a judgment.

I disagree with their validity of their decision.

Which obviously is all I can say on the matter as the time to right the wrongs has long since passed.

[slizzler1]

@Eddythebeast666

yes- I agree that the time has long since passed- most nations leaders have always made stupid prick decisions that shed blood needlessly at some point; I like to think humanity can progress by trying to learn from history and break the cycles of stupid decision making.

[Eddythebeast666]

@slizzler1 We are in agreement. It's a pity so many of our respective countrymen prefer to point fingers rather then take the lessons of past mistakes to heart. Aside from "The book of Negro's" which interested me as part of my families history I don't know many sources on the subject. Mostly I've been following my Mi'kmaq/French ancestors. My British ancestors are harder to trace because one married a Catholic & the rest of the family severed all ties. Bigotry is hardly limited to race. Sad.

[slizzler1]

@Eddythebeast666

yes bigotry/ tribalism-conflicts exists nearly everywhere on all continents- but I like to believe the 'war' against it goes on worldwide and slowly gains ground

[Eddythebeast666]

@slizzler1 I've enjoyed our conversation Sir. All the best.

[slizzler1]

@Eddythebeast666

no problemo- keep in touch if you want info on a topic we touched on you think I might know about; I might ask you for info-help one day too! cya

[kevin121649]

American imperialism. nothing more

[slizzler1]

No mention that the War also was started because the Americans were getting pissed off with the British Navy which was constantly kidnapping American crewmen on the seas to force to serve in their navy. I hate documentaries that don't give the total picture.

[Eddythebeast666]

@slizzler1 Well the USA had agreed to British impressment with the Jay treaty & The Hartford Convention makes it pretty clear how strongly the maritime states did not want the war.

The War Hawks pushing for the conflict were from the frontier states. It is only the past 30 years or so that the "Native threat" has been discarded as non "PC" & down played as a cause for the war. This video is an interesting example of how modern history is being revised/distorted.

[slizzler1]

@Eddythebeast666

"the USA had agreed to British impressment"

Do you actually know 'impressing' is kidnapping? Do you know Americans were snatched off ships on the seas and forced into the British Navy service.

Maybe you should self-reflect on what is distorted and what is objective.

I'm repulsed with the rampant American invasions and squatting on Native territory in the 19th century; but the War of 1812 was stirred up by Britain and the USA with some on both sides not wanting the war.

[Eddythebeast666]

@slizzler1 Most of those taken were British deserters as Briton did not recognize naturalised United States citizenship of Sailors who were born British. Those few American born citizens who were taken where returned with apologies when it was proven.

Think of the 40'000 US draft dodgers during the Vietnam War & the pressures the USA brought to bare to get them returned. Also the USA kidnapped Canadians during the civil war a practice called crimping.

It's not worth fighting a war over.

[slizzler1]

@Eddythebeast666

I'm not taking sides in historical events; I analyze them from the middle road,

Not all dodgers returned- and good for them; it was a BS war that the generals were screwing up and costing young American lives pointlessly. Why make excuses for British Navy terror tactics- they stopped ships illegally and took away innocent young men - they were doing it for a long time. Should one make up excuses for evil activities; both sides provoked a stupid war.

[Eddythebeast666]

@slizzler1 Sounds like you have a well balanced perspective. First I'm not trying to justify impressment or the draft or an of the other British provocations. If Briton didn't agree that it was wrong they would not have given up on the practice. I do how ever feel that the issue was inflated for the purpose of starting the war. The States most affected by British naval actions were not the ones calling for war. In fact they almost left the Union over being dragged in to the war.

[slizzler1]

@Eddythebeast666

Yes- I agree- but only at what point did Britain abandon the criminal activity. How else does a nation stop years of travesties against its citizens unless they ratchet up the 'rhetoric'. I only say that as conjecture; because indeed, at the same time, the Americans had slavery and were terrorizing Native Americans off their lands/ homes.

Yes-as you know, many State militia units refused to cross into Canada because of aversions to being used in all-out war/ foreign invasions

[Eddythebeast666]

@slizzler1 The backlash from Chesapeake–Leopard Affair decided the issue. Impressment had been unpopular for a long time. Only the desperation of the Napoleonic wars keep it up for so long. That doesn't excuse the practice but it wasn't done out of malice or contempt. I can't stress this enough, the States that were suffering the indignity the most were not the ones calling for war. Oh & Briton did help thin the French raiders during the Quasi-War so there was some small compensations.

[Eddythebeast666]

@slizzler1 It's not worth fighting a war over when it can be resolved through diplomacy. Which is actually what happened. The British ended impressment unfortunately news of that was too late to stop the declaration.

It wasn't a good war.(If war can be seen as such at all.) Costly & meaningless.

[Eddythebeast666]

On the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month the guns fell silent. Today we remember. Solemn Greetings on this Remembrance Veterans Poppy Armistice Day to all nations.

And for the for Americans/Canadians Please accept my salute on the anniversary of the Battle of Crysler's Farm Nov 11 1813.

[slizzler1]

@Eddythebeast666

I agree with you..... and remembering all the battles.

These defenders of Canada are ignored too easily..... they in all their ethnic diversities, fought in savage battles to repel repeated American invasions.

[kariminasrin]

why you dont call this video,,,THE GENOCIDE OF INDIAN PEOPEL,,,???

[oldhacks]

@:40 "for many generations"??? HaAHha!!! doesn't he mean Thousands of years??

[SpanielWebkinz]

um.?

[4wlucretia]

Thanks