Just listen to Jesse Ventura, who was a Navy Seal. He says he has been waterboarded as a part of his Seal training, and verifies it is torture. That kind of nullifies Liz Cheney's argument right there.
Type in "Lawrence O'Donnell Being Ignorant about Guns." At first with his ignorance about magazines making a gun automatic vs. semi-automatic might be his "ignorance" or idiocy, depends on how you want to look at it. But goes on to lie that the killer "sprayed" bullets. Completely untrue.
@th3gr8juan Show us how he is a liar douchebag. Let's see your proof. You can't, because he isn't and the Cheney's are evil, ignorant enemies of the USA.
@mekongyouwrong Are you being serious? I just told you how to find it. The link won't paste on here. And are you following me? I don't mind being challenged, but just wondering if this is something I should be concerned about.
I bet her boss made sure Lawrence O'Donnell didn't get on with Lizzie because she made that condition.. the woman doing the interview doesn't have any power to say who gets on or not.. it's the director who has the say so..she shouldn't act like she can decide that she is just a presenter..Lawrence goes after these scumbags
@xadam2dudex I bet pigs fly on the farm your on when your not looking. She's just a presenter! Are you 5? It's her show, and shes the commentator of her own show. She gets to say or do whatever she wants and as a fellow liberal looking to destroy Liz at any opportunity, you would have to be the biggest dumbest gullible moron to rationalize a situation where she didn't, and instead lied to protect someone she dislikes. Amazing.
@98DevilDog79 r u 4 ? she is a presenter and does not determine anything.. she reads teleprompters..too bad u have no understanding of what the issues are
@xadam2dudex Shes a "commentator/coorespondant" and the "anchor" for Weekend Today and Today, there is no such thing as a "presentor". Obama reads telepromters genious, you make about as much sence as a square wheel. This isn't about understanding issues, it's about being so completely stupid that one believes a liberal would protect the lie of a conservative it's hilarious.
@xadam2dudex lol so if she reads off a teleprompter than how does she respond to liz's responses. Did liz send NBC her responses to all the questions in advance. Honestly please tell me that you were eating paint chips when that shit came out of your mouth. Its a ridiculously stupid thing to say, and does nothing for any argument against Liz on the subject.
@98DevilDog79 the show's producers ask the guest to come on the show and discuss a topic.. many times they agree upon certain areas or specific questions..this presenter reads/ask the questions and acts as a mediator..Lawrence O'Donnell replied to Liz Cheney's propaganda lies..plain and simple
@xadam2dudex lol what lies? Lawrence O'Donnel is an idiot. He called Bush a liar and everyone else including Liz Cheney and got his ass handed to him. He looked like the biggest fuckin loser on the planet. Liz debated his ass on Good Morning America and she made him look stupid. You specifically alleged that Liz purposefully excluded Lawrence from the debate and Norah protected her which is ridiculous bull shit.
@xadam2dudex No Lawrence O'Donnell tried to say that Liz Cheney is running from the debate, and Norah basically called him out on it and made him look like the idiot he is. The liar is O'Donnell, since it's crystal clear Liz didn't run from anything, it was Lawrence who didn't show up or schedule the debate.
@xadam2dudex Also a common tactic of complete idiots like you and O'Donnell are calling people liars without explaining or having evidence to support their statements. It was hilarious watching Scarborough just simply tear the shit out of O'Donnell after he called Liz and Bush liars, it was classic liberal dumb shit ass whooping. You people operate off of factless feelings and irrational emotions.
@xadam2dudex P.S. Liz and ODonnel debated on Good Morning America and she handlesd herself well. Lawrence is by far the dummest sob I've ever had to listen to. If you really want to see O'Donnel in action go search for him and Scarborough and watch him loose his testies.
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Thank God for our brave troops working against all odds, even from their own Government for keeping us Safe. All you Anti America Bloggers are the first ones the Muslim Fanatics will seek out because of your naiveativity. May you RIP.
Hello Liz Cheney, you bagger goddess, you never stop, do you. LOL. Listen bagger, you are merely a accolite of one Senator Joe McCarthy, a man who was obsessed with chasing evil communists who were running our government. You are such a rube, bagger boy. Now get back to your tea party so you can decide who is American and who isn't, you dumb fascist.
of course terrorism exists u fucking goof ball..the main question at hand here is did Iraq have any connection to 9/11?..it's been more than obvious that the answer is NO..cheney and the cia used waterboarding to extract false confessions..watch this video..
@FMTFXE22 fuck you. i was in the us navy and i agree with o'donnell. does that make me unamerican, too?
why dont you pick yourself up from your lazy-boy and pick up a gun before you start arbitrating who is or isnt unamerican. as far as im concerned, you are unamerican in your blind allegiance to this country.
Its interesting to see who the real Morons here in America Truly are. The idiots who posted replies here who continue to spout Anti American Hate, calling the Cheneys names. When will you people get your Freaking Heads out of your asses? Terrorism is Real,
@ichrisg, why are they cowards and liars? unlike the right who just throw out lies without anything to support what they say, msnbc supports everything they say with video and transcripts. telling the the truth no matter how painful is very brave!
You dolts refuse to realize that this 'so called' torure you refer to is done to thousands of military soldiers as a training tool...and yet none of them complain about being tortured...all you 'can' do is throw-out disgusting name calling...
Knowing that you're in a training exercise where you might only get waterboarded once or twice, compared to a situation where you think you're going to die and you're waterboarded 183 times isn't the same thing.
as appose to getting actual information that could save American lives from a terrorist that would cut the head off of you and your children......yes I see your point....
you worry about making terroist feel uncomfortable...I get that...you want to give them moranda rights...have at it...you and I will never agree....I don't believe it's torture...so...you worry your self sick about them...and I will pray you or no-one close to you ever gets your damn stupid head cut off by one of them...that 'IS' my arguement...and remains it...now...put your head back in the sand
"You dolts refuse to realize that this 'so called' torure you refer to is done to thousands of military soldiers as a training tool...and yet none of them complain about being tortured"
Have you completely run away from this argument now?
you'll never believe it's torture?..have u ever been waterboarded?..then how the fuck do u know?..jesse ventura personally experienced it during his navy seal training and he boldy states that it IS torture..and it's not as mundane as making terrorists comfortable, it's about upholding the intergrity of the US..if we justify waterboarding, what's next?..we don't wanna take one step down that road.
@itzahazylife Honestly Hazy, Why should I care what it does for a terrorist? Are they not responcible for supplying graphic real life video's for our children to watch on how to saw a head off of an innocent person, guilty of nothing but being from a free society? and you worry about waterboarding? Get your priorities straight man. Lastly...Jesse Ventura...Now there is a man of incredible integrity...I found him more believable when he was sitting beside McMann on the WWF 'real' life programing
exactly, and the people that had it done in that controlled situation STILL said it was torture..imagine when it's done 183 times..it has to be complete mental anguish..
as someone who has undergone this its torture and id love to fucking punch her face in for saying its not HOW CAN IT NOT BE TORTURE IF ITS SIMULATED DROWNING how is that not torture
Good for you and thanks for being a man. You are the first Republican I have seen take responsibility and man up. There is hope. rippac86 you made a mistake but this gained you respect
Wow you could tell Norah seemed annoyed. I love her interviewing style, she's not afraid to be bold and aggressive.
Lawrence O'Donnell should really get his own show. I don't think there's any conservative flack that can beat him in a debate when he's knowledgeable on the REAL facts, not the disinformation perpetuated by the likes of Liz Cheney, and her father.
how is simulated drowning not torture, she is a fucking idiot. and the reason why seals go through that training is not to be able to do it. But to know what it is like if it was to happen to them if captured. She is a dumbass
Whether you agree with Liz Cheney or not, she certainly can produce intelligent arguments based on facts/stats while at the same time take down the opposition trying to discredit her claims. Imagine a Sarah Palin/Liz Cheney ticket. Lawrence Odonnell is nothing more than a insecure delusional left wing hack employed by MSNBC to trash anyone on the right or who has opposing views on political issues by screaming, yelling, or talking over people. He certainly looks hopelessly ridiculous doing it.
Haha, you're an awful person for defending the Cheney's. They want to torture people, and ANY EXPERT not these moron chickenhawk Cheney idiots, will tell you that torture doesn't work. What does that tell you? It's a sadist family.
Oh and imagining a Sarah Palin/Liz Cheney ticket in 2012 would be amazing. It's like the one thing I want most in politics. I would love it. Obama would mop the floor with both those ditzy, torturing, religious nutballs.
KaraLarson26..My father was a navy seal. You don't have to put a republican or democrat face on it. Listen to the facts! Do the research. ITS TORTURE!!! If it was done to you in middle America, the person performing the act would have the fucking book thrown at him!!!!!
Liz Cheney is a freakin idiot.! Intelligent? Because of her crook daddy she was handed a job...Ambassader of Middle Eastern affairs ?? After years of trying to make sure of peace in the Middle East she sure fucked it up with her daddy in a short time. But hey all their friends got rich too at the expense of Americans blood and treasure. You are a fucking asshat sticking up for them
Oh, Larry... By your definition, one cannot be a staunch supporter of the military without first having served. If that's the case, then the vast majority of the American public cannot comment on or support military endeavors. And if we reverse his logic, then he clearly cannot comment on these techniques since he, to use his own words, has "avoided military service" and has never been through this training. Nice try Lawrence.
I love to hear the word "lie" so refreshing than misspoke. Call it for what it is lies plain and simple. Thank you Mr. O'Donnell for telling it like it is.
Liz Cheney, on the other hand, is just one in a parade of self-serving, "all-knowing," more-patriotic-than-thou propagandists who routinely wrap themselves in the flag as a cover for their naked lack of conscience.
Yeah I'm slobbering over his unparralleled intellect too, especially after he somehow missed the point that 4 Justices appointed by Congress said that waterboarding isn't torture. But by all means take a Political Correspondants legal expertice over those that spent the past 20 some odd years practicing law.
Lawrence O'Donnell is an attorney. He has worked as an attorney for many years prior to becoming an attorney for the Senate Democrats during the Clinton Administration. His Show the West Wing was based on his experience. But Liz Cheney, is an attorney as well and should be disbarred for her defense of the illegal activity of torture.
They made a show about corkey the retard too. This is the Lawerence O'Donnell that believes that the results of past interrogation techniques are as damaging to the US and helpful to the terrorits as the tactics used. He may be an attorney but he's as dumb as dog shit. Being in the military I can tell you that past information concerning thwarted attacks is 99% worthless, the tactics used however are very importnat when it comes to training your men how to endure it.
oh, listen to those 4 justices, but don't listen to jesse ventura who PERSONALLY experienced waterboarding during his navy seal training, and PERSONALLY stated that IT IS TORTURE...i know it's been 10 months, but 10 months doesn't diminish the idiocy of your statement..
@itzahazylife lol, I've been a US Marine for the past 10 years dipshit and have gone through a hell lot more in terms of discomfort than waterboarding. Idiocy is speaking without knowledge and I have personal knowledge of being drownd, choked, beaten, gassed, do you? If not you can respecftully shut the hell up. Listening to people like you whine and bitch about things like this that Marines experience in rudementary training courses is REAL torture.
@itzahazylife I find it terribly amusing that you seem to find a problem with waterboarding 3 terrorists responsible for murdering 3000 Americans, yet say nothing about the 60 innocent CIVILIANS slaughtered by an increase unmanned raptor strikes ordered by Obama - an increase declined by Bush both times it was suggested. So let me ask you whats the great atrocitiy? Why the love affair with terrorists and the complete neglect of the innocent - your worse than a Nazi appeaser.
and i find it terribly sickening that u make the statment that those terrorists WERE responsible, when they were nothing more than suspects u goddamn fool..you're a presumptuous fool..i'm a terrorist lover because i want american policy to remain dignified no matter how horrible our enemy is?..if waterboarding is ok, then what's next?..we can't take on step down that road..1 step always leads to another..it's unamerican and so are u.
@itzahazylife lol, you don't know what your talking about. Kalik Shiek Mohammad admitted to being the mastermind of 911 back in 2002, before he was even in US custody. The two other Al-queda "suspects" also were self admitted far before we got their hands on them. These three terrorists waterboarded were "extreme" circumstances, where there was an imminent danger, a target known, and these three were absolutely known to have prior first hand knowledge.
@itzahazylife I hear what you are saying, and hopefully your excuse for not having a clue is due to policital bias. Do you know we kill terrorists without trials and far less evidence every day than the waterboarded terrorists? We don't waterboard them, we bomb them and most of the time (say Pakistan for example) kill 14 at a time, as well as 657 innocent civilians - thank Obama. So ask yourself why waterboarding 3 terrorists > killing 14 + 657 civilians? Answer: Your not to fuckin bright.
@itzahazylife As far as torture, I don't believe waterboarding is torture. I believe that whatever actions our gov't takes to ensure our saftey should be heavily scrutinized/held accountable so that they DO NOT go further, but not with a blind eye to reality - and the shit that happens on a daily basis. Your need to critisize the use of waterbaording isn't an excuse for you to be clueless on what we do the other 364 days of the year.
@itzahazylife Lastly you didn't answer the simple question so I can understand why you and MSNBC "seem" like terrorist loving idiots. If it's possible, LOGICALLY explain why "waterboarding" Kalic Shiek Mohammad the mastermind of 911 and 2 other Al-Queda Lieutenants > "killing" 14 terrorists + 657 innocent civilians (2009). This is over 3 X the number of innocent civilians killed under Bush (2008) the previous year.
first of all, torture is known to yield false information..people will say almost anything when in such a situation..false information leads to false action, which leads to terrible mistakes..second of all, america simply should not take 1 step down that road..say waterboarding them worked..well, what if feel that whipping them will work?..or starving them?..or whatever else?..it's a bad road to go down..a road that leads to an unamerican way of handling our problems.
@itzahazylife First of all, not torturing someone yeilds false information genious. This isn't about getting fasle information cupcake, this is about expediency. THE ONLY difference between waterbaording and say an interrogation given by the local police is the lenght of time required to get relavent information. In the event of a terrorist attack (like the LA global bank thwarted attack), we don't have 2 years to wait the terrorists out.
i want u to know that i know where you're coming from..these people were a serious threat to american life..but, just because we face threats doesn't mean we should start tearing down the walls of how america does things..once u start going down that road, it's unlikely we'll regress..it starts with waterboarding and will only get worse. and if that's the case, u may one day see us stoop to their level..
@itzahazylife Also you'd do yourself a favor and look up what techinques arn't torture. Standing up for 18 hours at a time is not torture. Sleep deprivation is not torture. Environmental settings and contraints are not torture (temperature). All these give you truths and lies, they are simply slower. Since your obviously not in the military I'll let you into a little secret. EVERYONE tells EVERYTHING they know under these (non toture) techniques given enough time.
@itzahazylife No shit dude, I'm just telling you like I would tell Norah ODonnel and these other worhtless human beings who are magots to society. If you really care about the US and how we look, these terrorists would be about 1000000th on the priority list. We do far worse things, far more frequently, the only fuckin difference is Obama's doing them now - so the bitch doens't have anything to say, and appearently neither do you.
look man, i'm not gonna continue talking to someone who talks like some 16 year old brat..i said what i had to say..if u don't like it, then go do what u gotta do..but i'm not even gonna waste my time with such a callous, angry person..you'll never open up to others percpetions of things anyway, so what's the point of discussing this?
@itzahazylife You haven't discussed or address anything I have an issue with. We both agree waterbaording is "bad". Making someone stand up for 18 hours a day is "bad". There are bad things in the world and we don't want the US to get a bad rap. Ok. Now lets get to the issue I raised with you. Why is waterboarding THE issue for you, why not the 657 innocent civilians? Why not 657 times the contempt for Obama or do you equate 657 innocent lives = 3 waterboarded terrorists?
i feel for the innocent people, and i have contempt for irrational religious nutjobs who kill people for their whackjob beliefs..now waterboarding and torture is the main issue to me because waterboarding is what people propose as OK BECAUSE of their contempt for the terrorists and BECAUSE of their empathy for the inncoent lives..in the end, waterboading is the result of both these emotions, which is why it becomes the issue.
@itzahazylife lol really, I havent seen you critizing drone strike escalations or the killing of civilians anywhere on here. If you really cared about "people" you'd let my comment on waterboarding fly right by without even a second thought or at least mention we shouldn't handcuff anyone during an arrest - but you didn't. Waterboarding is the main issue for you because your ignorant of whats happening around you.
@itzahazylife ahh isn't that cute folks - he "feels for the innocent". Well my guess if the slaughtered innocent were sitting behind you while you typed, they'd think something probably not to far off from me, watching you molest your keyboard over waterboarded terrorists. Hopefully they have as much a sence of humor as I.
you're a jackass..of course i feel for the people who got killed by these nutjobs..are u fucking kidding me? are u trying to say i don't? and again, u god damn goof ball,me being against terrorists being waterboarded isn't out of my love of terrorists like your narrow-minded ass keeps implying,it's for the simple fact that it's just not how america should handle things..it's not the road we should go down..it'll only lead to worse methods of retrieving intel.
@itzahazylife So you've spent an equal amount of time critisizing the hundreds of civilian casualities in Afghanistan and Pakistan, US aid going to rebels in the Congo who rape and give aids to women, Obama's orderd assasination of Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen, supported assasination of Mamhoud al-Mabhouh in Dubia, and about a 1000 other more significant US policies? If not then your either clueless, or a hyporcite - you tell me?
there are so many better ways to withdraw information..like i said before, torture is known for being a lousy way of withdrawing information..it usually extracts false information as the suspect usually feeds u bullshit out of desperation..my stance on this is out of my beliefs about how america should do things, not out of love and sympathy for terrorists..you're a manipulative ass, and you're not getting away with putting words in my mouth.
@itzahazylife I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm judging you by the facts that you are on this website critisizing waterboarding, but I haven't seen your ass on any blogs/videos ciritisizing civilian casualities as a result of increased drone attacks, indirect aid given to congo rebels, assassinations in yemen and dubia, etc. where've you been oh lover of the innocent? Your here, not there - and its ether because your a blind idiot, or full of shit, neither of which sound very good.
are u fucking kidding me?..because u haven't seen me among the millions of videos on youtube, that means i don't defend the death of innocent people?..u ARE putting words in my mouth..u just basically implied that i don't care about innocent people getting killed..jesus christ man, get your head out of your ass..of course that sickens me that our military bombs the shit out of pakistan and kills inncocent people..(cont)
@itzahazylife Lets get some human nature things down hazster. It's human nature to tackle things more significant first, lesser next right? Given the fact that waterboarding is about 1 millionth on the list of our humanitarian priorities, if you REALLY were so offended by the 999,999 more significant atrocities with the proper level of aggression towards them, comming by this site and replying to me would be about as silly as Bill Gates stopping to pick up a fucking penny in the mud.
i'm always on videos about religion and how radical religion is responsible for causing so much death in the name of diviinity..i debate all kinds of shit on youtube from both sides of the spectrum..you're so presumptuous it's ridiculous...u hear one side, and assume i can care less about the other side..dude i'm done with this shit, it's ridiculous..
@itzahazylife I didn't ask you if you debate theology, and honestly if you are stupid enough to try to make an association between religion and murder you need to take a history class and note 99.99% of all aid is religious. Plus Stalin murdered 50 million. Mao over 25 million murdered - you take any notes on that shit rainman? Why don't you stay on the subject and tell me when it comes to US policy, how many times you've advocated human rights, and what particular issue?
@itzahazylife The honest truth is like Norah and Lawrence ODonnell, you "seem" to be a liberal/atheist first, and "real" human being (separate from and bias) second. If you want to wake up I've got some unbiased videos on South Africa, the Congo, US foriegn policy engagements, etc that will wake your ass up and get anyone that REALLY cares about human rights regardless of their politics, religion, class, country, or race.
i'd actually be interested to investigate it..see, what u don't get is that i actually try to avoid the horrible current events regarding human rights cause it makes me sick. all it dos it get me angry and down for the simple fact that so much horrible shit goes on and it's so out of my control..but yo, i'm just sayin, u shouldn't be so condescending and presumptuous..it's really insulting u over here telling me that i don't care about innocent people getting maimed and killed.
@itzahazylife Well you can do your views an honest service and not get them associated with the thoughtless non sense that permiates MSNBC. I'm not giving you advice just saying, you need to understand your environment. This shit on waterboarding is not an arena for intellectual combat, it's for bitter Bush haters to bloviate thier ignorance and supreme stupidity to all those who are similary inept.
i think waterboarding is very serious to the future of american standards..people agree with waterboarding for the simple reason that they feel it's what we have to do to get info..but, like i said before, where is that way of thinkiing headed if we continue down that road?..if it's only getting info that's important, why not whip them, or beat them, or burn their skin with hot steel?
@itzahazylife Why not beat them? That's simple, because waterboarding and similar techniques to not do permanent physical damage and are just as expiedient in extracting information. These are religious extremists who gladly give their lives to kill women and children to inflict damage, and we need to know if we are going to evolve to solve the problem or stand like the english in a line to get shot by those hinding in the bushes. It's the 21st century, adapt or die.
once we give up our morality and liberty in the name of fear, it's very hard to get it back once the threat is gone..people end up going on with their lives, while the government keeps the power we gave them..this is how democracies very gradually get dismantled until one day they are no longer..3,000 people died on 9/11..why should 300+ million americans each live in fear of that?..unless u live in the middle of NY?
@itzahazylife No one is saying give up your morality. I agree the gov't should always be kept in check, but I completley disagree with you that waterboarding terrorists, even killing them has anything to do with our gov'ts power and reach over the US population. We kill them all the time in combat, and it's still the same old US of A. If you said the Patriot Act then you would have a point.
@98DevilDog79 we have rules in place for shit like this so we never take 1 step down that road..because once we start looking at getting information as the most important thing, there's no telling where the means to get the information will end..
@itzahazylife Ya your right, it's a gamble and I've never been one to trust the gov't to do much of anything I can't do on my own. But being that "unfortunately" I can't protect my family directly from terrorism, the gov't MUST do it, so they need to be given as many tools as they need to do their job. I'm not willing to stake my families life on it any more than yours.
the chances of our families being affected by terrorism is very low..and depending on where u live, there isn't a chance at all..there was a quote from benjamin franklin saying "those who are willing to give up liberty for temporary saftey, deserve neither"..i know u must be wondering how that applies to this, but it does..we can't dismantle our constitution because of temporary threats..it's very hard to go back once we do.
@itzahazylife Liberty in terms of giving up ones rights- restricting free speach, imposing laws that limit the enaliable rights of every citizen, he didn't say stop killing the British Army or interrogating their officers once captured. Also the US constitution equally has nothing to do with foreign enemies we are at war with. I don't have 6000 words to give you a 100 examples of why what your saying is absurd. If it were the case, the US would have been destroyed long ago.
fear is how governments gain more power..aka big brother..when wer'e in a state of fear, we act desperately, and we let big brother do whatever they deem as neccessary..and when they take care of whatever threat we were in fear of, they keep that power..since in order for them to gain that power in the first place, laws had to be changed or made to give them that power..if we're to be a free, moral nation, we must stay one thru thick and thin..
@itzahazylife Do you honestly feel the gov't is fear mongering about terrorism. Do you think the vicitms families of 9-11 would slap you silly to hear you say let's not do anything b/c the chances are low? The chances were low for a native Hawaian to be bombed however in 1942 that unlikelyhood lead to the death of over 2,000,000 Japanese. "Not likely" means nothing when you are at war.
the empathy and contempt is a dead issue..it's our automatic emotions..we automatically know where we stand with these 2 things, so we can move on to what people propose as a solution regarding those 2 things..and what i'm saying is that waterboading is and was not the answer in response to the emotions everyone felt for both and terrorist and the innocent.
@itzahazylife and who are you to say waterboarding wasn't a solution? The only thing you said quantitatively on the subject was ridiculous and absurd. "Waterboarding leads to mis information" etc. Our national intelligence report in 2009 refutes your statement that it wasn;t a solution since the Global Bank in LA is still standing.
@itzahazylife lol you keep repeating the statement in more or less words "waterboarding is bad". No one disagrees with that. Why did you respond to my comment? Because it's so bad you felt you needed to right? Since we know the answer is yes, we'll move onto my point which you won't explicitly say (so I will) is that terrorists are more deserving of your empathy and protection than the innocent since you can show me 1 blog of your discontent. The end.
there are many ways of getting info..torture is just one of them..why should we represent forms of torture when there are other, AMERICAN ways of doing things?..it's almost like u have a hard on for torture.
@itzahazylife Given the fact that we all "talk" under currently accepted non torture tehcniques, one could easily reason waterboarding is far more humane than forcing someone to stand up for 18 hours a day for 36 weeks, which results in permanent mobility issues that last forever. There are no long term negative effects from waterboarding like there are for sleep deprivation and environmental constraints, waterboarding interrogations are also completed much faster (weeks) not months.
it's not about waterboarding..the real issue is what else waterboarding leads to..that's my whole point..taking a step down the road of cruel and unusual punishment is a dangerous road to go down regarding the standards america goes by.
What's with O'Donnell's eyes? One level higher and the blood would shoot out of them! I'll bet his wheels come off some time in the future. Just a matter of time.....
Lying Cheneys - the pathological lying father and daughter tag team. It's embarassing watching them repeating the same lies ad nauseum. They look like the walking dead. LIZ CHENY WILL SURELY TALK HER WAY INTO A SANATORIUM!
Rumsfeld, Tenet, Rice, and Ashcroft et... should have no problem going before an International Court at the Hague and explaining why they shouldn't be put to death for war crimes.
WOW I feel like I walked into the twilight zone with some of these comments.
You neocons here need to go watch the clip of one of your own hate radio talk show host--Maddog being waterboarding and only lasting 6 seconds and then declared it torture.
a bunch of cells isn´t a baby, moron, it is called an embryo. Torturers are criminals no matter if they torture the devil himself! Torture is a crime independently of whom it is done to. Twisting facts is the main neocon argumentative tool!
Your a bunch of cells you stupid ass... No ones twisting facts. The previous admin. used every tool at its disposal to save American lives. I disagree that it's torture and no court has said otherwise. After the next 911 happens and this admin. could have done more, you can feel good about the fact that we didn't make anyone drink a little water to save American lives. Terrorists are willing to sacrifice themsleves for their cause, you can' t simply interrogate them for information.
No court said otherwise??? Then why were people killed for having done the same stuff to americans in the Korean war??? Is it because Americans are in any way above the law?
Terrorists must really be willing to sacrifice since you had one of them watwerboarded over a hundred times trying to stablish connections between Iraq and Al-qaeda and still......nothing, NADA!!!!
Yes no court said otherwise, so again it's not torture and it's legal dipshit - 4 Congress appointed Justices said so. I'm going to thier word over yours. The CIA already acknowledged in May of 05 that waterboarding Khalid Sheik Mohammed provided information that thwarted an attack on Los Angeles. This was a publicly released Justice Dept. Memo. No one said waterboarding had to work every time, it only has to work once.
Based on what evidence is she a pathological liar? You must know her personally then. This is why I gain so much satisfaction out of making fun of stupid ass liberals. You make my job so fuckin easy pointing out how dumb you really are. Obsurd statements about people you don't even know, evidence you don't have. Thank you.
Based on what kind of evidence you say the prev. admin. "used every tool at its disposal to save American lives"?
Maybe you have forgotten all their lies about WMD and the rest which led to the deaths of several American soldiers over a war about oil.....Is that your notion of saving American lives??
Please don´t give me the "They hid the WMDs well and we didn´t find them" bullshit as an answer. You´ve been over there for years now, your military aren´t SO stupid, just a little....
The reason they brought the Justices in was to figure out everything they were allowed to do - without it being torture. Four independant Intelligence Agency's all agreed that WMD's existed - CIA, Isreali, UK, and Hungry. They all didn't lie for oil, and again not make you feel completely fuckin stupid, but Iraq has a measly 200 billion barrels of oil total. We spent 3 trillion in the first 2 years in Iraq = 1000 times the amount of money all the oil in Iraq is worth.
Not to give you a history lesson, but we didn't find Iraq's nuclear fascility in Iraq in 91 - it was found in Iran. Iraq was no different from Iran or North Korea and was doing everything in it's power to develop them. Only stupid ass people like you believed in the goodness of Saddams heart. Our enemies are not as stupid as you think. They know we have satellites watching them, so their creating their nuclear facillities in other countries like Syria, and places were not looking.
You speak of evidence but then go on about "lies" about WMD which most people know were a miscalculation the entire world made and not lies. And the old "war for oil" argument has never been serious.
If you were anywhere else in the world but the US, you would have seen there was no "international miscalculated consensus" whatsoever. Except if, like Devildog, you believe that U.S., Israeli, and British agencies, with Hungary´s own included as a bonus is a model of international consensus...
How extraordinary, how unfortunate that I lived in the only place that didn't get the word. Thanks for enlightening me. Listen, just about every allied or friendly country with a reputable intelligence service, as well as Hussein himself, proclaimed that Iraq had WMD. Ultimately, it's nearly a moot point because it wasn't the sole reason, perhaps not even the major reason, the Coalition decided to act upon the UN resolutions that the UN itself was unwilling to do, as usual.
The war for oil was indeed a part of the story, if not all. All this oil spending figures are just another neat trick Bush and Cheney pulled on the pockets of american taxpayers with tragic effects on the climate, and on the western world's economies. By the way, a side effect of this is that not only the Bushes got wealthier, but so did guys like Hugo Chaves and Vladimir Putin as well. Ironic, isn't it?.
Indirectly so. It's no secret that nations go to war over national security, and the world's oil reserves under the most religiously contentious concentration of states is going to be key to the US's future. But the war had many justifications and rationales, but enrichment of the Bushes and Cheneys is certainly not one of the ones taken seriously.
The Gitmo detainees should have been lined up and gotten a bullet in the head. They are POW and shouldn't be saved any way. If you Americans ever wonder why most of the world hates you, it is not merely a bit for the prosperity envy, but for idiocy of your native liberals like those of MSNBC's who make you look so dumb.
You call that eviscerating? Hahahaha...what a joke. Liz Cheney vs. this guy would be a blood bath. But all she would have to do is throw a caterpillar at him and it'd be all over.
Just listen to Jesse Ventura, who was a Navy Seal. He says he has been waterboarded as a part of his Seal training, and verifies it is torture. That kind of nullifies Liz Cheney's argument right there.
Brogel 6 months ago
so is kris----she knows who she is...
lakekbschn 7 months ago
Sidenote: that shirt doesn't really go with a tie... 4:14
CarlosIsDown 7 months ago
Not a fan of Cheney
hayder88 1 year ago
Lawrence O'Donnell is one of the biggest idiots, not to mention a vile, hateful person. He is a proven liar.
th3gr8juan 1 year ago
@th3gr8juan Really? So prove it
splicedenergy 1 year ago
Type in "Lawrence O'Donnell Being Ignorant about Guns." At first with his ignorance about magazines making a gun automatic vs. semi-automatic might be his "ignorance" or idiocy, depends on how you want to look at it. But goes on to lie that the killer "sprayed" bullets. Completely untrue.
th3gr8juan 1 year ago
@th3gr8juan Show us how he is a liar douchebag. Let's see your proof. You can't, because he isn't and the Cheney's are evil, ignorant enemies of the USA.
mekongyouwrong 1 year ago
@mekongyouwrong Are you being serious? I just told you how to find it. The link won't paste on here. And are you following me? I don't mind being challenged, but just wondering if this is something I should be concerned about.
th3gr8juan 1 year ago
@th3gr8juan There is plenty you should be concerned about but me 'following' you isn't one of them. Good bye.
mekongyouwrong 1 year ago
@mekongyouwrong I hope it's good bye.
th3gr8juan 1 year ago
Waterboarding has been regarded as torture forever. Cheney and his pal, Bush, belong in prison for war crimes.
ciarraibuzz 1 year ago
Waterboarding has been regarded as torture forever.
ciarraibuzz 1 year ago
Norah O'Donnell should have been WAAAAY tougher on that little Cheney scumbag.
1776independent 1 year ago
Liz Cheneey is her fathers daughter.A dull, insipid, little terrible hunting shooter. Lawrence Odennel however is .....my true love. *rolls*
Basra2020 1 year ago 2
Liz deserves to rot in hell for eternity. She's a liar & scumbag.
perrysafer 1 year ago 7
I bet her boss made sure Lawrence O'Donnell didn't get on with Lizzie because she made that condition.. the woman doing the interview doesn't have any power to say who gets on or not.. it's the director who has the say so..she shouldn't act like she can decide that she is just a presenter..Lawrence goes after these scumbags
xadam2dudex 1 year ago 2
@xadam2dudex I bet pigs fly on the farm your on when your not looking. She's just a presenter! Are you 5? It's her show, and shes the commentator of her own show. She gets to say or do whatever she wants and as a fellow liberal looking to destroy Liz at any opportunity, you would have to be the biggest dumbest gullible moron to rationalize a situation where she didn't, and instead lied to protect someone she dislikes. Amazing.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79 r u 4 ? she is a presenter and does not determine anything.. she reads teleprompters..too bad u have no understanding of what the issues are
xadam2dudex 1 year ago
@xadam2dudex Shes a "commentator/coorespondant" and the "anchor" for Weekend Today and Today, there is no such thing as a "presentor". Obama reads telepromters genious, you make about as much sence as a square wheel. This isn't about understanding issues, it's about being so completely stupid that one believes a liberal would protect the lie of a conservative it's hilarious.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@xadam2dudex lol so if she reads off a teleprompter than how does she respond to liz's responses. Did liz send NBC her responses to all the questions in advance. Honestly please tell me that you were eating paint chips when that shit came out of your mouth. Its a ridiculously stupid thing to say, and does nothing for any argument against Liz on the subject.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79 the show's producers ask the guest to come on the show and discuss a topic.. many times they agree upon certain areas or specific questions..this presenter reads/ask the questions and acts as a mediator..Lawrence O'Donnell replied to Liz Cheney's propaganda lies..plain and simple
xadam2dudex 1 year ago
@xadam2dudex lol what lies? Lawrence O'Donnel is an idiot. He called Bush a liar and everyone else including Liz Cheney and got his ass handed to him. He looked like the biggest fuckin loser on the planet. Liz debated his ass on Good Morning America and she made him look stupid. You specifically alleged that Liz purposefully excluded Lawrence from the debate and Norah protected her which is ridiculous bull shit.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@xadam2dudex No Lawrence O'Donnell tried to say that Liz Cheney is running from the debate, and Norah basically called him out on it and made him look like the idiot he is. The liar is O'Donnell, since it's crystal clear Liz didn't run from anything, it was Lawrence who didn't show up or schedule the debate.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@xadam2dudex Also a common tactic of complete idiots like you and O'Donnell are calling people liars without explaining or having evidence to support their statements. It was hilarious watching Scarborough just simply tear the shit out of O'Donnell after he called Liz and Bush liars, it was classic liberal dumb shit ass whooping. You people operate off of factless feelings and irrational emotions.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@xadam2dudex P.S. Liz and ODonnel debated on Good Morning America and she handlesd herself well. Lawrence is by far the dummest sob I've ever had to listen to. If you really want to see O'Donnel in action go search for him and Scarborough and watch him loose his testies.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Thank God for our brave troops working against all odds, even from their own Government for keeping us Safe. All you Anti America Bloggers are the first ones the Muslim Fanatics will seek out because of your naiveativity. May you RIP.
FMTFXE22 1 year ago
Hello Liz Cheney, you bagger goddess, you never stop, do you. LOL. Listen bagger, you are merely a accolite of one Senator Joe McCarthy, a man who was obsessed with chasing evil communists who were running our government. You are such a rube, bagger boy. Now get back to your tea party so you can decide who is American and who isn't, you dumb fascist.
terimccarthy 1 year ago 4
@FMTFXE22
of course terrorism exists u fucking goof ball..the main question at hand here is did Iraq have any connection to 9/11?..it's been more than obvious that the answer is NO..cheney and the cia used waterboarding to extract false confessions..watch this video..
/watch?v=zZdwKVpvhiM&feature=related
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@FMTFXE22 fuck you. i was in the us navy and i agree with o'donnell. does that make me unamerican, too?
why dont you pick yourself up from your lazy-boy and pick up a gun before you start arbitrating who is or isnt unamerican. as far as im concerned, you are unamerican in your blind allegiance to this country.
jbond5150 1 year ago 3
@FMTFXE22 Nobody objects to the troops, they are merely carrying out their orders. People object to their orders and to the people that issued them.
Brogel 6 months ago
@Brogel Thats right. agreed. speak up.
Tellthetruth61 6 days ago
@FMTFXE22 LOL Facist Nazi
northwestblazinfire 5 months ago
Its interesting to see who the real Morons here in America Truly are. The idiots who posted replies here who continue to spout Anti American Hate, calling the Cheneys names. When will you people get your Freaking Heads out of your asses? Terrorism is Real,
FMTFXE22 1 year ago
Liz Cheney is a traitor to the american people period. So is her hateful carnivore father.
gmatt911 1 year ago 15
At what point does Lawrence O'Donnell's head explode?
NoGuff 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
MSNBC lies. They are cowards and liars.
ichrisg 2 years ago
LIke fox!
58fenix 2 years ago
@ichrisg, why are they cowards and liars? unlike the right who just throw out lies without anything to support what they say, msnbc supports everything they say with video and transcripts. telling the the truth no matter how painful is very brave!
mrcspan 2 years ago
You dolts refuse to realize that this 'so called' torure you refer to is done to thousands of military soldiers as a training tool...and yet none of them complain about being tortured...all you 'can' do is throw-out disgusting name calling...
LondonBobby4 2 years ago
Knowing that you're in a training exercise where you might only get waterboarded once or twice, compared to a situation where you think you're going to die and you're waterboarded 183 times isn't the same thing.
getupjumpy 2 years ago
as appose to getting actual information that could save American lives from a terrorist that would cut the head off of you and your children......yes I see your point....
LondonBobby4 2 years ago
That was not your original argument - don't run away from it
getupjumpy 2 years ago
you worry about making terroist feel uncomfortable...I get that...you want to give them moranda rights...have at it...you and I will never agree....I don't believe it's torture...so...you worry your self sick about them...and I will pray you or no-one close to you ever gets your damn stupid head cut off by one of them...that 'IS' my arguement...and remains it...now...put your head back in the sand
LondonBobby4 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"You dolts refuse to realize that this 'so called' torure you refer to is done to thousands of military soldiers as a training tool...and yet none of them complain about being tortured"
Have you completely run away from this argument now?
getupjumpy 2 years ago
@LondonBobby4
you'll never believe it's torture?..have u ever been waterboarded?..then how the fuck do u know?..jesse ventura personally experienced it during his navy seal training and he boldy states that it IS torture..and it's not as mundane as making terrorists comfortable, it's about upholding the intergrity of the US..if we justify waterboarding, what's next?..we don't wanna take one step down that road.
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife Honestly Hazy, Why should I care what it does for a terrorist? Are they not responcible for supplying graphic real life video's for our children to watch on how to saw a head off of an innocent person, guilty of nothing but being from a free society? and you worry about waterboarding? Get your priorities straight man. Lastly...Jesse Ventura...Now there is a man of incredible integrity...I found him more believable when he was sitting beside McMann on the WWF 'real' life programing
LondonBobby4 1 year ago
@getupjumpy
exactly, and the people that had it done in that controlled situation STILL said it was torture..imagine when it's done 183 times..it has to be complete mental anguish..
itzahazylife 1 year ago
you lie!
keithproctor 2 years ago
I think it is torture just listening to this dumb bitch....
at477sf 2 years ago 3
Comment removed
Taobert 2 years ago
as someone who has undergone this its torture and id love to fucking punch her face in for saying its not HOW CAN IT NOT BE TORTURE IF ITS SIMULATED DROWNING how is that not torture
jabraun00 2 years ago
Liz cheney should suck her daddy's dick. Her relationship with her dad is very sick. She is a cunt and her sister is a lesbo
comercio76 2 years ago 2
@comercio76 Aren't you a piece of work...the fries are ready cammy...back to work...
LondonBobby4 1 year ago
liz cheney is a lying cunt... keep takin it to em O'Donnell
Redrum4409 2 years ago 3
that fucking cunt should die along with her farther!
luxenzo 2 years ago 3
@luxenzo somebody otta torture you and shut you up meatball
LondonBobby4 1 year ago
cheney sounds worse than her dad! what an idiot. guess that means she's the gop's frontrunner in the next election.
abovefilms 2 years ago
Good for you and thanks for being a man. You are the first Republican I have seen take responsibility and man up. There is hope. rippac86 you made a mistake but this gained you respect
hdhighway 2 years ago
Is Liz and Dick in your chapter rippac ?
hdhighway 2 years ago
You and the Klan are scum
cultfighter 2 years ago
Wow you could tell Norah seemed annoyed. I love her interviewing style, she's not afraid to be bold and aggressive.
Lawrence O'Donnell should really get his own show. I don't think there's any conservative flack that can beat him in a debate when he's knowledgeable on the REAL facts, not the disinformation perpetuated by the likes of Liz Cheney, and her father.
Ronin2051 2 years ago 2
Dick and Liz Cheney need help! 'simulated drowning' (aka waterboarding) is torture!
lovejangie1 2 years ago
how is simulated drowning not torture, she is a fucking idiot. and the reason why seals go through that training is not to be able to do it. But to know what it is like if it was to happen to them if captured. She is a dumbass
Delaware84 2 years ago 3
what if a liberal sent his daughter to defend him? where's the original player?
fox would rip it to shreds.
zrac09 2 years ago 2
Whether you agree with Liz Cheney or not, she certainly can produce intelligent arguments based on facts/stats while at the same time take down the opposition trying to discredit her claims. Imagine a Sarah Palin/Liz Cheney ticket. Lawrence Odonnell is nothing more than a insecure delusional left wing hack employed by MSNBC to trash anyone on the right or who has opposing views on political issues by screaming, yelling, or talking over people. He certainly looks hopelessly ridiculous doing it.
KaraLarson26 2 years ago
Haha, you're an awful person for defending the Cheney's. They want to torture people, and ANY EXPERT not these moron chickenhawk Cheney idiots, will tell you that torture doesn't work. What does that tell you? It's a sadist family.
clintwearshats 2 years ago
Oh and imagining a Sarah Palin/Liz Cheney ticket in 2012 would be amazing. It's like the one thing I want most in politics. I would love it. Obama would mop the floor with both those ditzy, torturing, religious nutballs.
clintwearshats 2 years ago
I imagined a Palin/Cheney ticket and COULD NOT STOP LAUGHING. Sarah the quitter and Liz the liar - the GOP's new leaders.
ggforchange 2 years ago
KaraLarson26..My father was a navy seal. You don't have to put a republican or democrat face on it. Listen to the facts! Do the research. ITS TORTURE!!! If it was done to you in middle America, the person performing the act would have the fucking book thrown at him!!!!!
baltazar34 2 years ago
Liz Cheney is a freakin idiot.! Intelligent? Because of her crook daddy she was handed a job...Ambassader of Middle Eastern affairs ?? After years of trying to make sure of peace in the Middle East she sure fucked it up with her daddy in a short time. But hey all their friends got rich too at the expense of Americans blood and treasure. You are a fucking asshat sticking up for them
cultfighter 2 years ago
lawrence, she did take on your opposition and SHE MOPPED THE FLOOR WITH YOU
idiot
thomasTANKbaber 2 years ago
how is that possible when he wasnt there to answer to her bold face lies?
GstateBALLER925 2 years ago
it was in a different interview
bolatluver29 2 years ago
they BOTH went on good morning america to talk about "torture" and needless to say cheney pounded o'donnell into dirt.
not here
thomasTANKbaber 2 years ago
this lawrence o'donnell is an idiot. babbles and babbles.
larrymyclown 2 years ago
you cant stand the facts, huh? yeah, thats what you can expect from a defender of a traitor like liz cheney and her father.
GstateBALLER925 2 years ago
Oh, Larry... By your definition, one cannot be a staunch supporter of the military without first having served. If that's the case, then the vast majority of the American public cannot comment on or support military endeavors. And if we reverse his logic, then he clearly cannot comment on these techniques since he, to use his own words, has "avoided military service" and has never been through this training. Nice try Lawrence.
Darling137 2 years ago
I love to hear the word "lie" so refreshing than misspoke. Call it for what it is lies plain and simple. Thank you Mr. O'Donnell for telling it like it is.
morpheus2k2 2 years ago
I respect Lawrence O'Donnell's intellect.
Liz Cheney, on the other hand, is just one in a parade of self-serving, "all-knowing," more-patriotic-than-thou propagandists who routinely wrap themselves in the flag as a cover for their naked lack of conscience.
awakenedinseattle 2 years ago
Yeah I'm slobbering over his unparralleled intellect too, especially after he somehow missed the point that 4 Justices appointed by Congress said that waterboarding isn't torture. But by all means take a Political Correspondants legal expertice over those that spent the past 20 some odd years practicing law.
98DevilDog79 2 years ago
98DevilDog79 wrote, "Yeah I'm slobbering over his unparralleled [sic] intellect too..."
After reading through several of your other responses here, you appear to do quite a bit of slobbering.
awakenedinseattle 2 years ago 4
Lawrence O'Donnell is an attorney. He has worked as an attorney for many years prior to becoming an attorney for the Senate Democrats during the Clinton Administration. His Show the West Wing was based on his experience. But Liz Cheney, is an attorney as well and should be disbarred for her defense of the illegal activity of torture.
terimccarthy 2 years ago
They made a show about corkey the retard too. This is the Lawerence O'Donnell that believes that the results of past interrogation techniques are as damaging to the US and helpful to the terrorits as the tactics used. He may be an attorney but he's as dumb as dog shit. Being in the military I can tell you that past information concerning thwarted attacks is 99% worthless, the tactics used however are very importnat when it comes to training your men how to endure it.
98DevilDog79 2 years ago
Lawrence O'Donnell is a dick. the west wing sucked, too.
wiz9496 2 years ago
@98DevilDog79
oh, listen to those 4 justices, but don't listen to jesse ventura who PERSONALLY experienced waterboarding during his navy seal training, and PERSONALLY stated that IT IS TORTURE...i know it's been 10 months, but 10 months doesn't diminish the idiocy of your statement..
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife lol, I've been a US Marine for the past 10 years dipshit and have gone through a hell lot more in terms of discomfort than waterboarding. Idiocy is speaking without knowledge and I have personal knowledge of being drownd, choked, beaten, gassed, do you? If not you can respecftully shut the hell up. Listening to people like you whine and bitch about things like this that Marines experience in rudementary training courses is REAL torture.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@itzahazylife I find it terribly amusing that you seem to find a problem with waterboarding 3 terrorists responsible for murdering 3000 Americans, yet say nothing about the 60 innocent CIVILIANS slaughtered by an increase unmanned raptor strikes ordered by Obama - an increase declined by Bush both times it was suggested. So let me ask you whats the great atrocitiy? Why the love affair with terrorists and the complete neglect of the innocent - your worse than a Nazi appeaser.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
and i find it terribly sickening that u make the statment that those terrorists WERE responsible, when they were nothing more than suspects u goddamn fool..you're a presumptuous fool..i'm a terrorist lover because i want american policy to remain dignified no matter how horrible our enemy is?..if waterboarding is ok, then what's next?..we can't take on step down that road..1 step always leads to another..it's unamerican and so are u.
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife lol, you don't know what your talking about. Kalik Shiek Mohammad admitted to being the mastermind of 911 back in 2002, before he was even in US custody. The two other Al-queda "suspects" also were self admitted far before we got their hands on them. These three terrorists waterboarded were "extreme" circumstances, where there was an imminent danger, a target known, and these three were absolutely known to have prior first hand knowledge.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@itzahazylife I hear what you are saying, and hopefully your excuse for not having a clue is due to policital bias. Do you know we kill terrorists without trials and far less evidence every day than the waterboarded terrorists? We don't waterboard them, we bomb them and most of the time (say Pakistan for example) kill 14 at a time, as well as 657 innocent civilians - thank Obama. So ask yourself why waterboarding 3 terrorists > killing 14 + 657 civilians? Answer: Your not to fuckin bright.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@itzahazylife As far as torture, I don't believe waterboarding is torture. I believe that whatever actions our gov't takes to ensure our saftey should be heavily scrutinized/held accountable so that they DO NOT go further, but not with a blind eye to reality - and the shit that happens on a daily basis. Your need to critisize the use of waterbaording isn't an excuse for you to be clueless on what we do the other 364 days of the year.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@itzahazylife Lastly you didn't answer the simple question so I can understand why you and MSNBC "seem" like terrorist loving idiots. If it's possible, LOGICALLY explain why "waterboarding" Kalic Shiek Mohammad the mastermind of 911 and 2 other Al-Queda Lieutenants > "killing" 14 terrorists + 657 innocent civilians (2009). This is over 3 X the number of innocent civilians killed under Bush (2008) the previous year.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
first of all, torture is known to yield false information..people will say almost anything when in such a situation..false information leads to false action, which leads to terrible mistakes..second of all, america simply should not take 1 step down that road..say waterboarding them worked..well, what if feel that whipping them will work?..or starving them?..or whatever else?..it's a bad road to go down..a road that leads to an unamerican way of handling our problems.
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife First of all, not torturing someone yeilds false information genious. This isn't about getting fasle information cupcake, this is about expediency. THE ONLY difference between waterbaording and say an interrogation given by the local police is the lenght of time required to get relavent information. In the event of a terrorist attack (like the LA global bank thwarted attack), we don't have 2 years to wait the terrorists out.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
i want u to know that i know where you're coming from..these people were a serious threat to american life..but, just because we face threats doesn't mean we should start tearing down the walls of how america does things..once u start going down that road, it's unlikely we'll regress..it starts with waterboarding and will only get worse. and if that's the case, u may one day see us stoop to their level..
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife Also you'd do yourself a favor and look up what techinques arn't torture. Standing up for 18 hours at a time is not torture. Sleep deprivation is not torture. Environmental settings and contraints are not torture (temperature). All these give you truths and lies, they are simply slower. Since your obviously not in the military I'll let you into a little secret. EVERYONE tells EVERYTHING they know under these (non toture) techniques given enough time.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@itzahazylife No shit dude, I'm just telling you like I would tell Norah ODonnel and these other worhtless human beings who are magots to society. If you really care about the US and how we look, these terrorists would be about 1000000th on the priority list. We do far worse things, far more frequently, the only fuckin difference is Obama's doing them now - so the bitch doens't have anything to say, and appearently neither do you.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
look man, i'm not gonna continue talking to someone who talks like some 16 year old brat..i said what i had to say..if u don't like it, then go do what u gotta do..but i'm not even gonna waste my time with such a callous, angry person..you'll never open up to others percpetions of things anyway, so what's the point of discussing this?
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife You haven't discussed or address anything I have an issue with. We both agree waterbaording is "bad". Making someone stand up for 18 hours a day is "bad". There are bad things in the world and we don't want the US to get a bad rap. Ok. Now lets get to the issue I raised with you. Why is waterboarding THE issue for you, why not the 657 innocent civilians? Why not 657 times the contempt for Obama or do you equate 657 innocent lives = 3 waterboarded terrorists?
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
i feel for the innocent people, and i have contempt for irrational religious nutjobs who kill people for their whackjob beliefs..now waterboarding and torture is the main issue to me because waterboarding is what people propose as OK BECAUSE of their contempt for the terrorists and BECAUSE of their empathy for the inncoent lives..in the end, waterboading is the result of both these emotions, which is why it becomes the issue.
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife lol really, I havent seen you critizing drone strike escalations or the killing of civilians anywhere on here. If you really cared about "people" you'd let my comment on waterboarding fly right by without even a second thought or at least mention we shouldn't handcuff anyone during an arrest - but you didn't. Waterboarding is the main issue for you because your ignorant of whats happening around you.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@itzahazylife ahh isn't that cute folks - he "feels for the innocent". Well my guess if the slaughtered innocent were sitting behind you while you typed, they'd think something probably not to far off from me, watching you molest your keyboard over waterboarded terrorists. Hopefully they have as much a sence of humor as I.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
you're a jackass..of course i feel for the people who got killed by these nutjobs..are u fucking kidding me? are u trying to say i don't? and again, u god damn goof ball,me being against terrorists being waterboarded isn't out of my love of terrorists like your narrow-minded ass keeps implying,it's for the simple fact that it's just not how america should handle things..it's not the road we should go down..it'll only lead to worse methods of retrieving intel.
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife So you've spent an equal amount of time critisizing the hundreds of civilian casualities in Afghanistan and Pakistan, US aid going to rebels in the Congo who rape and give aids to women, Obama's orderd assasination of Anwar al-Awlaki in Yemen, supported assasination of Mamhoud al-Mabhouh in Dubia, and about a 1000 other more significant US policies? If not then your either clueless, or a hyporcite - you tell me?
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
there are so many better ways to withdraw information..like i said before, torture is known for being a lousy way of withdrawing information..it usually extracts false information as the suspect usually feeds u bullshit out of desperation..my stance on this is out of my beliefs about how america should do things, not out of love and sympathy for terrorists..you're a manipulative ass, and you're not getting away with putting words in my mouth.
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife I'm not putting words in your mouth. I'm judging you by the facts that you are on this website critisizing waterboarding, but I haven't seen your ass on any blogs/videos ciritisizing civilian casualities as a result of increased drone attacks, indirect aid given to congo rebels, assassinations in yemen and dubia, etc. where've you been oh lover of the innocent? Your here, not there - and its ether because your a blind idiot, or full of shit, neither of which sound very good.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
are u fucking kidding me?..because u haven't seen me among the millions of videos on youtube, that means i don't defend the death of innocent people?..u ARE putting words in my mouth..u just basically implied that i don't care about innocent people getting killed..jesus christ man, get your head out of your ass..of course that sickens me that our military bombs the shit out of pakistan and kills inncocent people..(cont)
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife Lets get some human nature things down hazster. It's human nature to tackle things more significant first, lesser next right? Given the fact that waterboarding is about 1 millionth on the list of our humanitarian priorities, if you REALLY were so offended by the 999,999 more significant atrocities with the proper level of aggression towards them, comming by this site and replying to me would be about as silly as Bill Gates stopping to pick up a fucking penny in the mud.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
i'm always on videos about religion and how radical religion is responsible for causing so much death in the name of diviinity..i debate all kinds of shit on youtube from both sides of the spectrum..you're so presumptuous it's ridiculous...u hear one side, and assume i can care less about the other side..dude i'm done with this shit, it's ridiculous..
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife I didn't ask you if you debate theology, and honestly if you are stupid enough to try to make an association between religion and murder you need to take a history class and note 99.99% of all aid is religious. Plus Stalin murdered 50 million. Mao over 25 million murdered - you take any notes on that shit rainman? Why don't you stay on the subject and tell me when it comes to US policy, how many times you've advocated human rights, and what particular issue?
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@itzahazylife The honest truth is like Norah and Lawrence ODonnell, you "seem" to be a liberal/atheist first, and "real" human being (separate from and bias) second. If you want to wake up I've got some unbiased videos on South Africa, the Congo, US foriegn policy engagements, etc that will wake your ass up and get anyone that REALLY cares about human rights regardless of their politics, religion, class, country, or race.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
i'd actually be interested to investigate it..see, what u don't get is that i actually try to avoid the horrible current events regarding human rights cause it makes me sick. all it dos it get me angry and down for the simple fact that so much horrible shit goes on and it's so out of my control..but yo, i'm just sayin, u shouldn't be so condescending and presumptuous..it's really insulting u over here telling me that i don't care about innocent people getting maimed and killed.
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife Well you can do your views an honest service and not get them associated with the thoughtless non sense that permiates MSNBC. I'm not giving you advice just saying, you need to understand your environment. This shit on waterboarding is not an arena for intellectual combat, it's for bitter Bush haters to bloviate thier ignorance and supreme stupidity to all those who are similary inept.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
i think waterboarding is very serious to the future of american standards..people agree with waterboarding for the simple reason that they feel it's what we have to do to get info..but, like i said before, where is that way of thinkiing headed if we continue down that road?..if it's only getting info that's important, why not whip them, or beat them, or burn their skin with hot steel?
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife Why not beat them? That's simple, because waterboarding and similar techniques to not do permanent physical damage and are just as expiedient in extracting information. These are religious extremists who gladly give their lives to kill women and children to inflict damage, and we need to know if we are going to evolve to solve the problem or stand like the english in a line to get shot by those hinding in the bushes. It's the 21st century, adapt or die.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
once we give up our morality and liberty in the name of fear, it's very hard to get it back once the threat is gone..people end up going on with their lives, while the government keeps the power we gave them..this is how democracies very gradually get dismantled until one day they are no longer..3,000 people died on 9/11..why should 300+ million americans each live in fear of that?..unless u live in the middle of NY?
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife No one is saying give up your morality. I agree the gov't should always be kept in check, but I completley disagree with you that waterboarding terrorists, even killing them has anything to do with our gov'ts power and reach over the US population. We kill them all the time in combat, and it's still the same old US of A. If you said the Patriot Act then you would have a point.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79 we have rules in place for shit like this so we never take 1 step down that road..because once we start looking at getting information as the most important thing, there's no telling where the means to get the information will end..
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife Ya your right, it's a gamble and I've never been one to trust the gov't to do much of anything I can't do on my own. But being that "unfortunately" I can't protect my family directly from terrorism, the gov't MUST do it, so they need to be given as many tools as they need to do their job. I'm not willing to stake my families life on it any more than yours.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
the chances of our families being affected by terrorism is very low..and depending on where u live, there isn't a chance at all..there was a quote from benjamin franklin saying "those who are willing to give up liberty for temporary saftey, deserve neither"..i know u must be wondering how that applies to this, but it does..we can't dismantle our constitution because of temporary threats..it's very hard to go back once we do.
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife Liberty in terms of giving up ones rights- restricting free speach, imposing laws that limit the enaliable rights of every citizen, he didn't say stop killing the British Army or interrogating their officers once captured. Also the US constitution equally has nothing to do with foreign enemies we are at war with. I don't have 6000 words to give you a 100 examples of why what your saying is absurd. If it were the case, the US would have been destroyed long ago.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
fear is how governments gain more power..aka big brother..when wer'e in a state of fear, we act desperately, and we let big brother do whatever they deem as neccessary..and when they take care of whatever threat we were in fear of, they keep that power..since in order for them to gain that power in the first place, laws had to be changed or made to give them that power..if we're to be a free, moral nation, we must stay one thru thick and thin..
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife Do you honestly feel the gov't is fear mongering about terrorism. Do you think the vicitms families of 9-11 would slap you silly to hear you say let's not do anything b/c the chances are low? The chances were low for a native Hawaian to be bombed however in 1942 that unlikelyhood lead to the death of over 2,000,000 Japanese. "Not likely" means nothing when you are at war.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
the empathy and contempt is a dead issue..it's our automatic emotions..we automatically know where we stand with these 2 things, so we can move on to what people propose as a solution regarding those 2 things..and what i'm saying is that waterboading is and was not the answer in response to the emotions everyone felt for both and terrorist and the innocent.
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife and who are you to say waterboarding wasn't a solution? The only thing you said quantitatively on the subject was ridiculous and absurd. "Waterboarding leads to mis information" etc. Our national intelligence report in 2009 refutes your statement that it wasn;t a solution since the Global Bank in LA is still standing.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@itzahazylife lol you keep repeating the statement in more or less words "waterboarding is bad". No one disagrees with that. Why did you respond to my comment? Because it's so bad you felt you needed to right? Since we know the answer is yes, we'll move onto my point which you won't explicitly say (so I will) is that terrorists are more deserving of your empathy and protection than the innocent since you can show me 1 blog of your discontent. The end.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
there are many ways of getting info..torture is just one of them..why should we represent forms of torture when there are other, AMERICAN ways of doing things?..it's almost like u have a hard on for torture.
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@itzahazylife Given the fact that we all "talk" under currently accepted non torture tehcniques, one could easily reason waterboarding is far more humane than forcing someone to stand up for 18 hours a day for 36 weeks, which results in permanent mobility issues that last forever. There are no long term negative effects from waterboarding like there are for sleep deprivation and environmental constraints, waterboarding interrogations are also completed much faster (weeks) not months.
98DevilDog79 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
it's not about waterboarding..the real issue is what else waterboarding leads to..that's my whole point..taking a step down the road of cruel and unusual punishment is a dangerous road to go down regarding the standards america goes by.
itzahazylife 1 year ago
@98DevilDog79
"...for both the terrorists and the innocent* "
itzahazylife 1 year ago
Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding ~~~ TKO Liz keep Dropping the Libs
Cheney~Cheney 2012!
WinChicken 2 years ago
shes hot
k9platnum68 2 years ago
Wow Norah practically gets undressed by Liz and now has Lawrence boost her back up? Thats weak..
missbug93 2 years ago
what pity there wasnt someone to counter YOU.
unocomm 2 years ago
lawrence o'donnell rocks, the only reason to watch mclaughlin.
tomitstube 2 years ago
Lawrence, if you had been on with her she would have eviscerated you too.
Dontana808 2 years ago
You are a terrorist!
UGOTDAJACK 2 years ago
What's with O'Donnell's eyes? One level higher and the blood would shoot out of them! I'll bet his wheels come off some time in the future. Just a matter of time.....
g34me 2 years ago
What kind of a jerk would listen to anything Lawrence O'Donnel has to say?
He is an ASS!
birdofgrey 2 years ago
That is putting it nicely. Someone ought to waterboard this prick.
HarrySeeword 2 years ago
Comment removed
actsnfacts 2 years ago
Lying Cheneys - the pathological lying father and daughter tag team. It's embarassing watching them repeating the same lies ad nauseum. They look like the walking dead. LIZ CHENY WILL SURELY TALK HER WAY INTO A SANATORIUM!
demowarrior 2 years ago 2
If waterboarding isn't torture then Bush, Cheney,
Rumsfeld, Tenet, Rice, and Ashcroft et... should have no problem going before an International Court at the Hague and explaining why they shouldn't be put to death for war crimes.
noonedot 2 years ago
WOW I feel like I walked into the twilight zone with some of these comments.
You neocons here need to go watch the clip of one of your own hate radio talk show host--Maddog being waterboarding and only lasting 6 seconds and then declared it torture.
TRUTH & FACTS Republicans worst opponent
dannyjuchem17 2 years ago
Heres a liberal fact, it's cool to kill babies but not waterboard terrorists....
98DevilDog79 2 years ago
Comment removed
actsnfacts 2 years ago
a bunch of cells isn´t a baby, moron, it is called an embryo. Torturers are criminals no matter if they torture the devil himself! Torture is a crime independently of whom it is done to. Twisting facts is the main neocon argumentative tool!
actsnfacts 2 years ago
Your a bunch of cells you stupid ass... No ones twisting facts. The previous admin. used every tool at its disposal to save American lives. I disagree that it's torture and no court has said otherwise. After the next 911 happens and this admin. could have done more, you can feel good about the fact that we didn't make anyone drink a little water to save American lives. Terrorists are willing to sacrifice themsleves for their cause, you can' t simply interrogate them for information.
98DevilDog79 2 years ago
No court said otherwise??? Then why were people killed for having done the same stuff to americans in the Korean war??? Is it because Americans are in any way above the law?
Terrorists must really be willing to sacrifice since you had one of them watwerboarded over a hundred times trying to stablish connections between Iraq and Al-qaeda and still......nothing, NADA!!!!
actsnfacts 2 years ago
Yes no court said otherwise, so again it's not torture and it's legal dipshit - 4 Congress appointed Justices said so. I'm going to thier word over yours. The CIA already acknowledged in May of 05 that waterboarding Khalid Sheik Mohammed provided information that thwarted an attack on Los Angeles. This was a publicly released Justice Dept. Memo. No one said waterboarding had to work every time, it only has to work once.
98DevilDog79 2 years ago
Typical liberal fool. He has to call her a liar and insult her personally. Are liberals that stupid and pathetic that they can't debate the issue?
jm9862 2 years ago
What then are we supposed to call a person who lies pathologicaly like she does?
actsnfacts 2 years ago
Based on what evidence is she a pathological liar? You must know her personally then. This is why I gain so much satisfaction out of making fun of stupid ass liberals. You make my job so fuckin easy pointing out how dumb you really are. Obsurd statements about people you don't even know, evidence you don't have. Thank you.
98DevilDog79 2 years ago
Based on what kind of evidence you say the prev. admin. "used every tool at its disposal to save American lives"?
Maybe you have forgotten all their lies about WMD and the rest which led to the deaths of several American soldiers over a war about oil.....Is that your notion of saving American lives??
Please don´t give me the "They hid the WMDs well and we didn´t find them" bullshit as an answer. You´ve been over there for years now, your military aren´t SO stupid, just a little....
actsnfacts 2 years ago
The reason they brought the Justices in was to figure out everything they were allowed to do - without it being torture. Four independant Intelligence Agency's all agreed that WMD's existed - CIA, Isreali, UK, and Hungry. They all didn't lie for oil, and again not make you feel completely fuckin stupid, but Iraq has a measly 200 billion barrels of oil total. We spent 3 trillion in the first 2 years in Iraq = 1000 times the amount of money all the oil in Iraq is worth.
98DevilDog79 2 years ago
Not to give you a history lesson, but we didn't find Iraq's nuclear fascility in Iraq in 91 - it was found in Iran. Iraq was no different from Iran or North Korea and was doing everything in it's power to develop them. Only stupid ass people like you believed in the goodness of Saddams heart. Our enemies are not as stupid as you think. They know we have satellites watching them, so their creating their nuclear facillities in other countries like Syria, and places were not looking.
98DevilDog79 2 years ago
You speak of evidence but then go on about "lies" about WMD which most people know were a miscalculation the entire world made and not lies. And the old "war for oil" argument has never been serious.
Darling137 2 years ago
If you were anywhere else in the world but the US, you would have seen there was no "international miscalculated consensus" whatsoever. Except if, like Devildog, you believe that U.S., Israeli, and British agencies, with Hungary´s own included as a bonus is a model of international consensus...
actsnfacts 2 years ago
How extraordinary, how unfortunate that I lived in the only place that didn't get the word. Thanks for enlightening me. Listen, just about every allied or friendly country with a reputable intelligence service, as well as Hussein himself, proclaimed that Iraq had WMD. Ultimately, it's nearly a moot point because it wasn't the sole reason, perhaps not even the major reason, the Coalition decided to act upon the UN resolutions that the UN itself was unwilling to do, as usual.
Darling137 2 years ago
The war for oil was indeed a part of the story, if not all. All this oil spending figures are just another neat trick Bush and Cheney pulled on the pockets of american taxpayers with tragic effects on the climate, and on the western world's economies. By the way, a side effect of this is that not only the Bushes got wealthier, but so did guys like Hugo Chaves and Vladimir Putin as well. Ironic, isn't it?.
actsnfacts 2 years ago
Indirectly so. It's no secret that nations go to war over national security, and the world's oil reserves under the most religiously contentious concentration of states is going to be key to the US's future. But the war had many justifications and rationales, but enrichment of the Bushes and Cheneys is certainly not one of the ones taken seriously.
Darling137 2 years ago
The Gitmo detainees should have been lined up and gotten a bullet in the head. They are POW and shouldn't be saved any way. If you Americans ever wonder why most of the world hates you, it is not merely a bit for the prosperity envy, but for idiocy of your native liberals like those of MSNBC's who make you look so dumb.
northpolenordic 2 years ago
You call that eviscerating? Hahahaha...what a joke. Liz Cheney vs. this guy would be a blood bath. But all she would have to do is throw a caterpillar at him and it'd be all over.
snuhtoyou 2 years ago