paradigm shift (singularity)

[caveatemp]

This is by far the biggest issue of our time. And because the transhumanists say AI will be so far beyond the 'terans' it is clear that the singularity is the technological hell looming on the virtual event horizon.

[Origen305]

Good video, too many selfish agendas marvel at humanity's achievements paying lip-service to the legitimate concerns who detect a malign influence in trans-/post-humanism.

A future genetic divide will emerge dwarfing the current digital divide. The H+ movement will generate ethical questions that humanism alone can't answer. I for one wish to explore the ethical implications before H+ and their like sacrifice social contracts on the alter of materialistic hyper-individualism.

[Exmech2]

"...too many selfish agendas marvel at humanity's achievements paying lip-service to the legitimate concerns who detect a malign influence in trans-/post-humanism"

Possibly because there are no legitimate concerns? Had the Apes noticed a malign influence in there culture that would have brought about the dawn of man, would it have mattered?

[Origen305]

I beg to differ. Historically paradigmatic shifts in society, culture, ethics etc have had malign influences (granted often accompanied with altruistic influences). If one is a moral absolutist then such a shift poses metaethical questions that we may not be equipped to integrate into our morality. If you are a relativist what Ethical model would you employ to answer problems never before encountered - at leat not outside the scope of thought experiments.

[Origen305]

As for our hominid ancestors, as non-moral actors (in the modern context) of pre-history its questionable if they had the capacity to notice malign influences if any existed. As post-modern humans the ethical issues raised by transhumanism are both comprehensible and of concern to individuals and society alike, particularly considering the requisite ethical devisal.

[Exmech2]

My argument is that ethics and morals do not, and cannot, enter into the equation. My point regarding the apes was this: Natural evolution, much like the transformative power of history, is beyond moral judgement. There is only a concern if one considers man above, and seperate from, nature. This is fallacious.

[Origen305]

Correct me if I misunderstand but your latter statement indicates support for temporal relativism as regards Ethics, more crudely morality is wholly dependent on ther temporally normative.. Transhumanism is not devoid of serious ethical questions. It matters not whether we consider ourselves above/seperate from nature...but rather because we are moral agents with often differing, but extant moral boundries to the society we live in.

Do you consider youself a moral actor?

[Exmech2]

Historical events aren't actors, as Burns correctly pointed out. And certainly not evolutionary events. So attributing an ad hoc emergent moral property to a coming event is as fallacious as attributing one after the event. Events do not have an emergent morality.

My position is this: that the technologies are not emergent due to Transhumanism. Rather, Transhumanism is emergent due to the advent of these technologies.

[Origen305]

I never stated that historical events were actors, nor that events have emergent moralities. Perhaps you are confusing my issues with Transhumanism (a loosely based agglomeration of ideas) with Posthumanism with it's inherent 'Singularity' event.

As a 'signifier' Transhumanism is not an event, but a collection of ideas and principles. If you now wish to state that one cannot assign moral values to ideas and principles, then I would be most interested in the Ethical theory to which you adhere?

[Exmech2]

One cannot assign moral values to events. Which was my point.

I'm not looking at Transhumanism as an ethical philosophy. For which there are many criticisms. But as a recognition of a predictable event. Much like the man who talks about life after the imminent eruption of a volcano might be called "transeruptionist".

Human evolution didn't stop merely because we came down from the trees.

[Origen305]

"One cannot assign moral values to events' - your point was well understood so I don't see a disagreement here.

Transhumanism is not an evolutionary neccessity. It is the continuation of humanist philosophy developed during the Renaissance. It is a signifier/descriptor of an organised cultural/philosophical movement whose aims engender real applied ethical questions in the fields of bioethics, ontology, metaphysics and pose real, tangible questions of metaethics.

For example

[Origen305]

If humanity is to take control of elements of our own evolution what should guide us, what ethical systems should be employed. In a world transformed into ubiquitous 'artefact' (Derrida's definition) what ethic might emerge, and are there extant ethical barriers to such a progression/transformation of the human condition.

Your example of 'volcano man' isa weak analogy. He would be a post-eruptionist, analogous to posthuman, the END of the transitional stage, not the transition itself?

[Exmech2]

I have no idea what ethics might emerge from the transition. I'm not entirely sure we have, as a civilization, control over it.

One thing I have noticed is that there is no ethical argument regarding the development to extend life. It seems that only the idea of forestalling death, indefinitely, raises ethical questions.

cont.

[Exmech2]

Considering the state of the internet as it is now, one could have made strong arguments concerning the transition of a pre-inet society to a post-inet society. But no argument would have stopped the event from occurring. I think that strong, and valid, argument can be made that we only very limited control over elements of our own evolution, and are unable to exert greater control.

[Origen305]

Agree re: life extention, since the advent of 'humanism' life expectancy has at least doubled (in the developed world). An exponential rise in longevity might raise issues. One could argue that a half-millennium life expectancy raises issues of intergenerational ethics. You are right that immortality raises various ethical dilemmas. I think in the near term 'designer babies' and the devaluation of weak-gened offspring could lead to eugenics. Also a genetic divide within and between nations.

[Origen305]

The internet analogy is interesting but can't begin to describe the fundamental and self-governed change to what it means to be human. The ethical issues I raise above are serious enough for governments, or majority movements to intervene to halt, regulate, even criminalise certain actions/procedures for the overall good of humanity. If we call it wrong we may forfeit the very essenence of what it is to be human, or unknowingly sow the seeds of our own extinction - weighty ethical issues indeed

[Origen305]

I am glad we can reach some mutual agreement. The pleasure of informal debate is not the polemic itself (though you drrm sd krrn on this as I am), but rather sharing frames of reference, which nourish and inform both parties with different perspectives. I maintain we have much to fear from the transhumanist movement, particularly as the traditional ethical theories...Virtue Ethics, Deontology, Utilitrianism and faith-based morality are abandoned, I fear 'hubris', leaving Daedulus to perish.

[Exmech2]

As cells compose the human, and humans compose the nation, nations compose the civilization. It is he step inbetween nations and civilization where the definition of "free-will" becomes a fuzzy idea at best, if not distinguishable at all.

And at that, you have left me with some things to think about. :-)

[Exmech2]

[and self-governed change to what it means to be human]

I'm not convinced we have any control at all.

[of what it is to be human]

This is exactly what the Ape knows. What it is to be Human. The ape no longer knows what it is to be Ape. As we will one day know what it is to be not Human.

[doridora]

ADDTV - bigots

[karadan100]

Why?

[saberliner14]

Great work

[sincitypreacher]

The movies the MATRIX and the TERMINATOR are quickly becoming reality.

[TransAlchemy]

Or shall we say

Reality is quickly turning into a matrix. :)

[bfyau]

Where is Sarah Connor when you need her? Or, from another point of view, this has happened before, and will happen again. Where is Starbuck, and does no-one hear the song All Along the Watchtower playing?

[PragmaticHeathen]

Love your videos, very flow of consciousness.... You explore different angles of a topic.

[richtards]

if you returned to the "jackass" brand of ADDTV then the BMI would do the same??? or is the BMI in it's infancy a jackass that evolves into a conspiracy?

[richtards]

is this thing on???

[niza310]

Have You heard Michio Kaku's talks on the Theory of Everything? Keep up the Great Work!

[devildogmre]

ADD, your videos continue to inspire.

Good editing.

[ADDTV]

thank you. much of the credit goes to Particleion.