@L3g3ndkill4 Russell is probably the best defender in NBA history and if they had kept blocks as a stat he would be the all-time leader in that too. 5 NBA MVPs, 11 titles, 2nd all-time in total rebounds and rpg. Won titles as a player/coach. Captain and centerpiece of the Celtic dynasty that won 8 titles in a row. He changed the whole game in terms of defense and also allowed the BOS fastbreak to succeed. Stats alone can't measure his impact on the floor.
@L3g3ndkill4 No doubt he was not a great low post threat but his speed and hustle made him a threat on offense. Unfortunately they did not keep track of offensive rebs but he would get a lot and allow his team extra possessions. His speed would wear down other opposing centers and when he needed to he could score like in game 7 of the 62 finals against the Lakers he finished with 30 pts and 40 rebounds.
@L3g3ndkill4 That is horseshit. Congratulations you are the stupidest person I've met in a while. One thing you can't deny are his 11 rings. The best winner in NBA History. Now you have to ask yourself retard...How did he win all those rings? On average he played more minuted than all the Celtics players and if you ask any of those Celtics they will tell you he led them to 11 rings. If anything he was underrated because he didn't score like everyone but his contribution can't be denied, stupid.
@Flipper79able I give you credit for trying to deal with this guy...it's hard to comprehend how anyone especially basketball fans could say this guy was overrated...his genius for the game and life is so rare compared to all the other greatest players...Magic, Bird, Jordan, Wilt, West, Big O, Kareem were all genius's but they all have more respect for what Russell did and envy him more than anyone who ever played because the best of the best all want one thing.....to win
@L3g3ndkill4 Most overrated player yes,he was terrible at losing games and titles,the guy just didn't get it,8 titles in a row,11 out of 13 years,he should of realized no athlete is supposed to do that or ever did do that, your right about him just being a legend and respecting him,I wouldn't want to respect someone who kicked my ass every time I played them in something,also the guy didn't understand that he should of scored more points while winning over and over again,stats are more important
Most NBA fans are delusional. Most humans are stupid. for one it's become accepted that Michael Jordan is the greatest player ever. He is not. Bill Russell is. It's also accepted that players like Chamberlain are one of the few players who could hold up physically in todays game. Another misnomer. IT's actually the other way around. most NBA players today would be eaten alive back then. If those Celtics teams played the bulls of the 90's Michael Jordan would get destroyed.
@walker834 its a different game from the 60's to the 90's back in the 60's they called little to no fouls they had no three point line and players back in that time played alot differently then they started to play in the 90's so u cant say who would win, bill russell was one of the greatest defensive players ever but he wasnt as good as a scorer as jordan was thats why soo many people love him because he can score the way he does
@OMGCRAZY95 But that's the thing. Russell was a timely scorer and played within the flow of the game and the offense. JOrdans scoring abilities are overrated imo. People like him because he soared above the rim and scored a lot. I'm not taking anythign away from Jordan. Well actually I am. I think he's clearly a great player and one of the greats but I think he is overrated in a lot of ways. Instead we get Michael Jordan is clearly the greatest and Bill Russell is one of the greatest.
@OMGCRAZY95 Russell was also a great passer and made his teammates better how he played the game offensively. He would run the floor and the style of basketball the celtics played was because of bill russell. That's why i never bought the whole team player argument. It's a team game. The game is played on both ends. Jordan was a great defender too, but Russell played the game on both ends how iw ould draw it up.
@walker834 The center is the most dominant player on the floor. Russell was a center who clearly got it. He wasnt about numbers. He was about winning. Defense, offense, everything in between. What more do you want? I honestly believe if those celtics played any team of any era they would win because Russell was the best ever.
@walker834 but then again jordan was a great passer and a great defender also, thats what im trying to say tho its hard to compare 2 players who play completely different positions a center and a shooting guard. and another reason why people believe jordan is the best is because he played in the 90's which is our generation we grew up in im sure back in the 60's and 70's bill russell was was talked about just as much as jordan
In Bill Russell's basketball career, including college(USF), Olympics and the NBA, Bill Russell played in 11 win or go home games. His record in those games: 11-0. 10 Game 7’s and one Game 5 in a best of 5. Phil Jackson as a player retired in 1980 after 13 years in the league, he averaged 6.7 points and 4.3 rebounds in 807 games. Don't compare his coaching rings to his rings as a player. Phil Jackson was never PLAYER COACH and won a ring. The Celtics never won a title until they had Russell.
@xdivision100 But you know they are probably going to under rate him....making him slow, nd not being able to jump that high....and ofcourse with chamberlain they use the 34 or35 year old version...I guess Prime chamberlain is to scary for them
@jongib369 WHAT? "slow, and not being able to jump that high"? 1956 track and field season. Russell high jumped 6-9¼ to tie for the West Coast Relays title and also won 6 other meets. Russell placed 2nd at the California Relays and 3rd at the Compton Invite.He won 6 meets and had 3 jumps over 6-8 during the 1956 season. Track & Field News ranked Russell the 7th best jumper in the world and 3rd best in the USA for the 56 season. Russell was the CENTER for the NBA east all stars 12 times.
@geocgeo haha you misunderstood me :P. I said the makers of the game will make him slow and not able to jump high...Not that *I* think he was slow and couldn't jump. The man was definitely an athlete, and Im well aware of his greatness and his feats....or did I just misunderstand you?
This mans is an example of how rings don't count for anything. Barkley is great but has no rings Lebron is no king because he has no rings Jordans 6 rings makes him without a doubt the G.O.A.T Some think if Kobe can be the greatest if he gets 2 more. Bill has 11 as a player, 2 of those years he was the coach which means he is really tied with Phil for most rings all time but they dont count them for some reason. And I never hear anyone say Bill name in GOAT conversations.
If Wilt and Russell swapped rosters, does Russell still win 11 titles? I'm not so sure.
Wilt doesn't quite get enough credit for what he accomplished simply because he didn't have enough firepower on his teams for enough seasons. That said, Wilt was twice on a team that set an NBA record for most wins in a season.
But Russell was probably the greatest defender the game has ever seen, and Wilt vs. Russell the greatest individual rivalry.
@mrmacross totally agree. Russell on those Warriors and WC on those Celtics would have been a total joke.
People downplay KC Jones but the fact is he was the best perimeter defender of those early NBA days... guards got so nervous playing him they called it KC-itus.
Cousy and Sharman outside with Chamberlain in the paint? And Heinsohn crashing the boards, they'd have been crazy kinds of great... and those later Celtics with Sam Jones and Havlicek would have demolished everything in their path
@zqdz123 check out what Bill says about Havlicek & Sam Jones. watch?v=sY4EhnRgBWU
Without those guys, Russell says, he thinks he MIGHT have won 3 rings. MAYBE, he says. (I'd figure those 3 rings to be his first 3, with Cousy, Sharman, Heinsohn, Ramsay, Sanders, & Jones Bros - all Hall of Fame)
He didn't talk Sam into making those baskets. Sam made those baskets.
Before you assume he made his team better, check out their PER numbers
@musikaNeues Russell is extremely modest.I love how he uses the word we and not I at 2:41-2:47. No doubt the Celtics in the 60s were stacked but Havlicek, Jones, and the rest of the Celts benefitted more from having Russell on the team than the other way around. Russell was a winner with the University of SF which was not exactly a powerhouse as well as the NBA. Also the PER is a bunch of crap ,According to the PER Chris Paul, LeBron James, and D Wade are ahead of Magic, Bird, and the Big O.
@BNS224 totally agree about Russell - he was amazing. My point is - as Russell has pointed out his entire life - all the myth around Chamberlain is crazy. People bash him without knowing fact and that is totally wrong.
The guy really was the Babe Ruth of basketball but he gets treated like garbage and that ain't fair.
@musikaNeues I respect Wilt. As an individual he is the most dominating player to play in the NBA so far. I am not saying he had the best bball skills but Wilt did things that are difficult to do in video games. I think if Wilt had been taught to play a team orientated style of bball earlier in his career he would of won numerous titles.
@BNS224 No. Not the last place Warriors. If you look at his teammate's numbers you'll see just about all of them had career seasons when WC was their center (tho not with the Lakers, when he was 33 - 36 years old playing on a wrecked knee).
Assists were up across the board for the Warriors & the 2 guys that could score still got their numbers. Virtually every 76er had career seasons with Chamberlain, the one exception being Billy Cunningham who was 6th man when WC was there and started later
@BNS224 nobody would expect a guy to win in '68 when his 6th man was out and 2 starters were walking on hamstrings. Can you imagine Dirk winning a ring this year when Terry has a broken arm, and Kidd & Marion have hamstring pulls?
Or in '71 when both Jerry West & Elgin Baylor were DNP for the playoffs.
Most people don't know the facts of those days so they just repeat myths they have heard or read
@musikaNeues If Wilt had played like he did for the 66-67 76ers to start his career, I think he would of won more titles. I agree he did play in the playoffs with a depleted team due to injuries, and gets undue criticism for it. I am just saying his mentality for the 66-67 76ers under Hannum was great and wish he would of played like that earlier in his career. He trusted teammates and realized he could dominate the game without scoring 50 pts a game.
@musikaNeues No doubt when he had a good team and played a team orientated style of basketball they did beat the Celtics. But you can blame a guy for his team and coaches when he is demanding to be traded and threatens the coach that he is controlled by no one. If I was a decent scorer and was told I could go play with Wilt in 61-62 or 62-63 when he avg like 37 shots a game I probably would not want to play there. Its not like the 76ers wanted to get rid of Wilt in 68, he wanted to be traded.
@BNS224 those are far separated & unrelated to each other.
First off if you look at the 61-63 Warriors numbers, you will find the scorers on that team got the same ppg they ever did. Everybody's assists went up, but scoring didn't go down.
Wilt & his attorney insisted to the end of his life that he was promised part ownership of the 76ers by Ike Richmond. When Ike died, the other owner reneged. Enraged by the cheat, Wilt told the 76ers they would either trade him or he'd jump to the ABA.
@BNS224 Nobody on earth that would stand for being cheated like that, let alone an elite athlete. When you add that to the fact Hannum left basketball to run his construction company, who was going to coach the 76ers? They let Wilt go, & went from Finals to worst team in history in 4 years.
2nd, what happened with Van Breda Kopf in 1969 on the Lakers has nothing to do with the 62 Warriors.
You can't lump things that happened 7 years apart into 1 sentence & expect me to believe they're related
@musikaNeues No what I am saying is early in his career when avg like 37 shots a game no decent scorer would want to join that team. Then later in his career he starts to demand for a trade. That to some extent has Wilt accountable for both the players he played with and coachs he played under. If you don't like the coach grit your teeth and play hard. Even Michael Jordan who was hard on coachs, initially hated Phil Jackson's coaching but stuck with it and it ended with a good relationship.
@BNS224 yeah, after Jordan got Doug Collins fired and alienated his entire team, he got the greatest coach in history.
Everybody wanted to play with Chamberlain. Red Auerbach tried everything he could think of to get Wilt to play for the Celtics. You should study up some more my friend.
@musikaNeues No doubt Auerbach would want Wilt, he saw him as a threat and because Auerbach also saw him as a spectacular talent. But Red has also said that Chamberlain cared only about himself and his stats. I get your point that Wilt gets blamed a lot for some things he couldn't control. However some criticism he brought on himself. IMO he is the most dominant individual player to play so far but he would of won a lot more if he played a team style of basketball and kept everyone involved.
Bill Russell the greatest team player (knowing how to utilize his skills to get the most out of his team) in the history of team sports. If the NBA is going to retire any number across the league it should be #6.
Bill Russell was the only guy that could give Wilt the Stilt an even match in the 60's. He was the best defensive center in NBA history. You had to see him to believe it. Chamberlain and Russell had plenty of games against each other with Russell ( 4 inches shorter) containing him. Celts won 8 championships in a row during this era.
i can absolutely gaurantee you that bill russell wouldn't have let dirk nowitski go to his left for an easy layup like that turnstile bosh did in the finals.according to a recent issue in sport illustrated on seven footers if you can run down the court without tripping youre guaranteed a contract.with only 8 teams during most of russells day they were a lot pickier.
franzpolak. You are clueless. I attended dozens of games during the Russell era and there were plenty of guys who were huge (6-10 and up). Walt Bellamy, Willis Reed, Wade Halbrook, Clyde Lovellette, Nate Thurmond (the most underrated center of all time), and plenty more.
@SeanMalachyDolan That's what I keep telling these jordan jockers, just because MJ won 6 rings in the weak expansion league teams in the 90s, doesn't make him the best ever, he didn't do anything against the great 80s teams :)
@MerkinMuffly Whoa hold on MJ didnt do anything in the 80s r u crazy. Have you heard of the 63 points against Bird, when MJ was in the league for 2 years. lets not forget his 3rd where he average 37 ppg. Jordan ddnt win in the 80s bcuz of the teams but when Scottie n the rest of the bulls came in then he made progress. By that time the Jordan rules n the bad boys came in, but Jordan still average 35 points those playoffs, so Jordan dominated both 80s n 90s
Few people realize how great an athlete Bill was. At 6'10", he ran the 440 and the 880 on the track team and was the #7 rated high jumper in the world. It was incredible to see him chase down the very fast Jerry West from behind and block his layup. I'll never forget the expression on West's face: "where the hell did he come from?"
To the know-nothing that said Russell wasn't that good on offense. Stay in school. Russell enjoyed blocking shots and intimidating the other team. He scored when he had to. For example, 1962 finals at LA. Russell scored 30 pts and grabbed 40 rebounds. I saw him play and he had a beautiful hook shot and was the best I have ever seen at grabbing a rebound and getting the outlet pass to his breaking guard while still in the air. He was simply awesome and fast as a gazelle at 6'10"
Russell won 11 titles in 13 years, a record unmatched by any player in any sport. He beat Chamberlain like a drum. You guys who say Wilt was better never saw them play. I saw Russell play every home game at USF where he won 2 NCAA titles with only one other decent player on the team. I also saw Wilt play dozens of home games for the Warriors. Wilt was the greatest offensive player of all time. Russell was the greatest player -- period. MJ was the most exciting player.
@gdm49 I saw wilt dozens of times. He was far greater than Russell, at every aspect of the game.
The Celtics had better players in the early years, & an incredible string of luck as far as injuries in the later years. Chamberlain lost 6 starters in 4 years in playoffs - including himself in 69.
You can say what you want but it's fact Russell NEVER. EVER. beat Chamberlain like a drum.
You can't pull the "I was there" card on me. I was there too for a lot of it and that's just flat wrong.
russell was a great defender but wilt chamberlain is the best C ever. 7'0 280 lbs he was strong, quick, and had a quality jumpshot for a big man. even in today's gm with the weight training and better players, i believe wilt would still be dominate and avg 25ppg 15rpg he was just that good
@NWA657 Havlicek has 8, Sam Jones has 10....... but what people forget is that Tom Heinsohn was a basketball genius. He won 8 rings as a player and TWO MORE RINGS coaching the Hondo-JoJo Celtics. He shot only 40% fg..... which doesn't seem all that great until you know he launched hundreds of 3 pointers but got no credit for those long range shots. One of the greatest O threats ever. Most stacked teams in history, in order: 60s Celtics 90s Bulls 70s Knicks 80s Lakers 80s Celtics 00s Lakers
Russell was the greatest player of all time. 11 titles in 13 years. He played chess and even Jordan was just playing checkers. Sorry to burst your bubble.
@MrWakethesheeple MJ is best ever. Russell was best ever in that time. Basketball back then wasnt anything than it is now. Too many skinny white dudes. But Russell is the best center of all time. I hate how people look at stats and say Wilt is best ever. He was 7'1 in a league where ha faced a bunch of Peja Stojavics. MJ played in the touchest time to play basketball. If Mj played when Russell played he would have averaged 100 points. And if he played now he would average 40 cus of stupid fouls.
Russell won 11 titles and it was a small league with a concentrated talent pool. Jordan's titles were against weak foes.
Oscar Robertson had the body to compete in the modern NBA and they didn't even have weight training that was scientific. He'd have a Lebron James type frame with more skill.
You are right that the game has progressed but if Jordan played back then, he wouldn't have been able to jump so high or do the things he did because training was different and the game was different.
@MrWakethesheeple Mj played against weak pllayers? you have to be kidding me thats really ignorant, Mj playede in the most competitiv etime of basketball ever. And it doesnt matter how mj was trained, he had the deathly will to win, thats why he won six titles, and so did russell, so russell has 11.
And Oscar robertson? Have you seen him? He dominated becasue he played against a nunch of jj redicks. he had the triple double season because that year there was no defense at all, go look at it.
Jordan beat the Suns (that was the toughest one and far from great). He beat a very old Magic Johnson just before HIV and scrubs. He beat Shawn Kemp and the Sonics who sucked. He beat the Jazz (very good but again an incomplete team). He beat the Blazers (who outplayed the Bulls but were screwed by officials BADLY). MJ never beat Bird, Magic or even Akeem in their prime.
Russell played Chamberlain, West, Robertson and Baylor in their primes. Malone, Drexler, Stockton, Akeem don't stack up.
@MrWakethesheeple your just talking about MJ and his titles. he played 6 seasons before the 90's you know. He played in the toughest stretch of basketball. You must not know anything about basketball because it was waaay different back when russell played. so much different rules and regulations. And the sonics didnt suck, the 93 title wasnt his best, they outplayed n 92, in 91 the lakers were still great(thats why they were in the fina;s) i love bill russell, but MJ was better!
@wizboy211 Oscar Robertson is correct; LeBron James is better than MJ. There's been lots of guys better.
Any team that can win games by an average 12 point spread is TOTALLY stacked and especially in coaching. He was the #1 scoring threat on the second most stacked team in history - 90s Bulls.
Those Russell teams were totally stacked too. As many as 8 HoF on the same team at the same time - 9 including their coach
@stere0brain WOW. Phil Jackson, one of the best coaches ever in any sport, said there will never ever be another MJ. There was nobody better and there will be nobody better. And obviously you dont know how basketball was back then. When Russell played, there was 8-12 teams. Of course there were multiple hall of fmaers. And Russell hasd the most because people wanted to play for him. He was such a great player, teammate, and human being. And in some of the years Russells teams didnt match up well
@wizboy211 Havlicek has 8, Sam Jones has 10....... but what people forget is that Tom Heinsohn was a basketball genius. He won 8 rings as a player and TWO MORE RINGS coaching the Hondo-JoJo Celtics. He shot only 40% fg..... which doesn't seem all that great until you know he launched hundreds of 3 pointers but got no credit for those long range shots. One of the greatest O threats ever. Most stacked teams in history, in order: 60s Celtics 90s Bulls 70s Knicks 80s Lakers 80s Celtics 00s Lakers
@wizboy211 MJ's career was just like Iverson's. Until he got a stacked team with a phenomenal coach he won nothin. Put AI on those 90s Bulls teams and he would have had a stack of rings.
@stere0brain you must have been born in 1997 or something. MJ carried AWFUL teams his entire career. He pushed his LIFE to win. Scottie PIppen was his best player besides him, then everyone else were scrubs pretty much. MJ changed that team, switch Drexler and MJ and the blazers would have multiple titles. you must know nothing about MJ. And Iverson wouldnt get to the playoofs with a bad team when MJ would win a title with a bad team. And Mj won the hios sith ring all by himself, watch the tape.
@wizboy211 and if you think a high scorer is the reason for those point spreads you're even more lost. How come Bernard or AI or Elgin put up huge numbers but couldn't win rings? They didn't have teams that could compete - just like MJ had no team that could compete in the 80s, or in the 00s.
No matter how great MJ was he would NEVER have won rings without Phil Jackson shouting him down & that dynasty would NEVER have happened without stacked teams.
@stere0brain Ive read Bill Simmons, I loathe Michael Jordan. MJ was a superb athlete, player, teammate, and person. Yes, Phil shut him down a little, but how come Larry Brown couldnt do it to AI? He was a thug. And Elgin didnt win a title because he couldnt. Great player, played for great teams, but you need more than that. you need a will to win. And MJ played in the toughest era of basketball, if your a true bball fan you would know that. MJs teams werent stacked, your talking nonsense. done.
@stere0brain you really think having will perdue, bill wennington, tony kukoc, charles oakley could easily stop the likes of Ewing, Olajuwan, Robinson, and Shaq? And you must not have watched in the 90s. teams now SUCK. there was a good amount of teams in the 80s and 90s, then they kept adding. tell me 3 more hall of famers than Pippen and MJ. Yes, they were balnced. but thats becuase of a good GM and the best player there ever was. your just trying to make it look like AI"s career sucked cus gm
@wizboy211 So then MJ stopped those guys himself did he?
Grant, Harper, & yes there's a case for Bill Cartwright, great scorer in his early years but turned into a defensive player who hadn't forgot how to make important baskets which is what the Bulls needed. Was he Shaq? No, but he's probably in the top 25 centers and top 200 alltime.
Oh wait Rodman already there, that's 4.
But sillyboy1 you don't have to have HoF caliber to be stacked. Just the strongest all round at each position as a team
@stere0brain And D is better, but that sbecause there is no hand checking anymore. the refs are actually nice, but some are terrible. you must have started wathing basketball in 2001 or something. I dont want to talk to you anymore, clearly you are biased about your oopinions and i am about mine. Oh, and Bill Russells teams were as stacked as Wilt Chamberlains. But people like you dont wnt to realize it and make excuses for people like Wilt and AI's career.
@wizboy211 I've told you already let me tell you again, I watched Russell and Chamberlain from the cheap seats.
I'm not making excuses for anybody. I'm pointing out that no matter how great a player is, he'll never win rings without a great team around him, n even a great team won't win unless they have a coach that understands their skillsets.
Phil Jackson proved that most perfectly with the Bulls and then again with the Lakers.
60s Lakers stacked like Celtics? Obviously you never saw them.
@stere0brain Im not saying they were stacked, im saying they were goo enough teams to beat the Celtics, but they couldnt, because Russell wouldnt let them (until he was injured, and then of slightly decreasing.) But as a basketball lover to another, I have stated my point. I am tired of these little fights. May you have a nice life and continue a lifelong basketball fan. But i will ask you something, wasnt it amazing to watch Wilt play?
@wizboy211 Oh yeah. Lifetime event. Most dominating player to ever step foot on a court. I saw the Finals game when he ruined his knee. Just to show how primitive medicine was in those days.., they sprayed freon on his knee.
By the time I saw Russell he was in his last season or two. His leaping ability was long past but he was ferocious. It's pure myth to say he couldn't jam league today. Check out Durant schooling the league or Rodman winning 7 rebounding titles, or Howard - same size as BR
@stere0brain Yes, I agree. People watch clips of Chamberlain now and think its amazing. But those are just little highlights. It was amazing just to watch him run the floor and score.
Same with Russell. I loved his blocks that turned into fastbreaks.
@wizboy211 best block I ever saw was on one of Russell's hook shots. It went rocketing off the hand, clear out to the midcourt line, and Logo walked in with the layup. Perfectly timed, perfectly aimed, perfectly devastating. Celtics called time out.
@wizboy211 oh yeah he was incredible smooth had a flow to his offense like nobody else I ever saw. Dr. J had flair but Pete was somethin else. Connie Hawkins could make a crowd thunder too
@stere0brain yeah, people seem to forget the players after Russell and before Jordan besides Bird, Magic, and Kareem. I loved watching David Thompson. So sad he got into drugs and money to early in his career. If he had stayed sober and loyal, we'd be talking about MJ's career and Kobe's in many different ways.
@wizboy211 DT rocked the house!! Lots of guys had vertical it's a myth to say those guys weren't as great athletes as today's. Today guys are terrific and no mistake but if you transported a 60s or 70s Great into today's world, gave him the same benefits of starting ball at 6 years old, 50 years of film to study , strict diet and the rest.... they'd be in the league.
People seem to think evolution has happened in 40 years what a joke that is.
@wizboy211 Can you count to 14?Just so you know your "when Russell played there were 8-12 teams" 1969 Russell was PLAYER COACH and the C's BEAT L.A.in game 7 IN L.A. NBA 1968-69 reg season standings. Lakers 55 27 Atlanta Hawks 48 34 Warriors 41 41 Rockets 37 45 Bulls 33 49 Supersonics 30 52 Suns 16 66 Bullets 57 25 76ers 55 27 Knicks 54 28 Celtics 48 34 Royals 41 41 Pistons 32 50 Bucks 27 55 Guess who finished 4th in the east and beat L.A. in game 7 in LA for the championship?
I hate it when Kobe is compared to MJ or even named number 2 because it is total disrespect to Russell and other legends of the game who arguably could be considered number 1 in history. It's like they totally bypass these other great players in the argument. A travesty,
russell blocks a shot, tips the ball to a teammate for an easy fastbreak layup or uncontested jumper - instant four point swing (so much for his "mediocre" offensive arsenal). how many guys do that today? shotblockers like howard, okafor etc. care more about showboating and impressing a bunch of 12 yr olds than playing efficiently. and howard is supposedly winning another dpoy this year, it's laughable. the guy is only second to chamberlain for most spikes into the stands as he blocks a shot.
I agree. But guys like Russell and Chamberlain with 6'10+ players, playing in a league where the average height was about 6'3...............................
They were giants compared to the people they played against. Even in 1965 (half way through his career) the tallest scorers were only 6'3-6'5.
Guys like Pettit, Russell and Chamberlain dominated defensively. And some of it has to just be the fact that they were considerably bigger than nearly everyone else in the league
Here I was thinking Bellamy was 6'11, Reed was 6'10, Thurmond was 6'11, Dukes was 7'... gosh you sure know more about it than us old guys who actually watched basketball in the 60s & 70s. All those guys were just 6' !
By the way, what does tallest scorer mean? Like Jordan, Barkley, Bernard King, Jerry West... those 6'4 guys?
Same size as today's Gs & Fs when you know the FACT that every player since '85 is measured in his shoes.
What I'm saying is, Russell used to face 6'4 guys trying to jump shot over him.
Dwight Howard faces guys, close to his own size and weight, who take big run ups, take off, and dunk it at him.
It's a different game.
No way Russell would block anywhere near as many shots, or get anywhere near as many rebounds, if he was facing 6'8 inch guys, trying to dunk on him every single game of the season
@PacquiaoEPO you're going to penalize russell for his size and athletic ability compared to guys in his own era, but you don't penalize howard on his obvious athletic superiority to most centers in the league today? i wasn't making a point about the number of blocks and rebounds, so i'm going to spell it out for you: WHY WOULD HOWARD SPIKE THE BALL IF HE CAN TIP IT (and he can do it) - russell understood that and howard doesn't. your comment has nothing to do with what i wrote.
read bill simmon's "book of basketball" it's an amazing and entertaining (yet deep) book, and it dedicates lots of pages to compare russell and chamberlain. from what i've read there's really no comparison between the two. one player gave his team 11 (ELEVEN!!!) rings and the other... two. (the last one when russell had already retired)
@stere0brain the book is great, simmons is truly THE sports guy. the only bad think about the book is that it doesn't have any references to Bargnani and Barbosa, two of the greatest players of our decade. Go play NBA 2k10/11 and see for yourselves. They are unstoppable.
@nasoszeppos nah. Read those posts on here by vstrat0 for a total destruction of that chapter on Chamberlain. Simmons is full of canary poop, didn't do research, skewed facts, avoided difficult truths.
60s Celtics were flat out most stacked teams in history. Just like Jordan in the 80s, or AI, Wilt couldn't beat a totally stacked team no matter how great he was because his teammates were garbage.
And even when he was on team like Blake Griffin's he STILL lost 5 ECF by less than 10 points total
As many College and NBA titles as Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson combined, FACT!!! Lebron James would have to win like 40 straight championships to have same winning percentage as Russell FACT!!! Russell would have had to quit on his team in a game 7, 2 times to beat out Kobe, FACT!!!
1959 Boston Celtics 4–0 1962 Boston Celtics 4–3 1963 Boston Celtics 4–2 1965 Boston Celtics 4–1 1966 Boston Celtics 4–3 1968 Boston Celtics 4–2 1969 Boston Celtics 4–3 1984 Boston Celtics 4–3 1985 Los Angeles Lakers 4–2 1987 Los Angeles Lakers 4–2 2008 Boston Celtics 4–2 2010 Los Angeles Lakers 4–3
10 greatest players of all time in order 1. Michael Jordan 2. Wilt Chamberlain 3. Magic Johnson 4. Larry Bird 5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 6. Bill Russell 7. Oscar Robertson 8. Karl Malone 9. Dr. J 10. Dennis Rodman (yes the Worm, get over it, should be in the Hall of Fame
@RubberWilbur Wilt joined the lakers with West and Elgin all in their primes and they still couldnt get it done over Russell the Player/Coach. For those that say, he had so much talent with him, then explain the 60 straight college wins for San Francisco (Not exactly a perenial powerhouse before or after Russell). Keep in mind freshmen couldnt play back then, and yet his freshmen team beat the Varsity. Rodman over Duncan, really?
@pjay213 Duncan is great and reminds me of Kareem, however his career has not finished. I'm sure in a few years he could easily bump Rodman off. Rodman has 5 NBA championships and THE greatest rebounder of all time in my opinion.
@RubberWilbur I See your point about not putting current players in there. Still, I dont see you have Russell at #6. 13 Championships in 16 years from College and the pros. Many experts (Including Dr. Jack Ramsey) have claimed Russell averaged a triple double with Points, Rebounds and Blocks. Unheard of in any era. Too much emphasis goes on PPG, instead of who gets there team to win. Nothing against Jordan, but it took him years to realize that less PPG led to him winning championships.
@pjay213 The talent and competition in Jordan's era was far more superior than the talent and competition in Russell's era in my opinion. Plus Jordan, even at 6 foot 7, in his era was considered a guard and smaller. Russell's height helped him tremendously.
@pjay213, on the Jordan part, not really. Jordan averaged more points per game when the Bulls weren't good because he had no one on his team. The need to score rested entirely on him. It's not like one day he said "oh I should stop scoring so much" and then the Bulls won. Quality players got added to the Bulls and there was less pressure on him to score. Besides in the six championship years he averaged 31, 30, 33, 30, 30, 29, so that's not really a significant decrease in PPG.
@pjay213, as for Bill Russell and the triple double thing, I really doubt it. I've heard that claim with Chamberlain too that he averaged ten, fifteen blocks or whatever. I've heard that with Jerry West in terms of steals. Since there are no stats people love to throw out these huge numbers that are almost certainly BS. Even if someone watched all the games, I doubt they kept an accurate mental tally. Without analyzing all game film, which I doubt is available, it is baseless nonsense.
@jdlund it's not baseless since teams back then basically played a run and gun style, putting up more shots than at any point in nba history, teams relied on the inside game because nobody had a decent jumpshot (perimeter players averaged below and just about 40% on their fg attempts) and most players back then weren't as athletic as russell. boston sports writers did keep occasional stats on blocks, and some of them claim there were stretches when he averaged between 10 and 15 blocks a game.
@franzpolak, stretches I might buy. It's when people try to claim that Russell or Chamberland averaged 10 blocks a game or so for the entire season that I say bullshit. Unless you watch every last game it is pure speculation because you are either basing it on a handful of games or just a hunch that a guy like Russell could have averaged that much for a whole season. Given the style of the game I have no doubt they averaged high block numbers, but I don't buy 10+ a game for a season at all.
@jdlund it's not inconceivable, but i agree it's unlikely. people talk about the triple double thing because they don't understand why an athletic dunker like russell averaged less than 15 ppg for his career - if it's not in the box score, it's forgotten or overlooked. since statistics in basketball today are overrated to the point that everybody's being compared to everybody, people can't help themselves, i guess. the triple double is overrated, winning championships is horribly underrated.
@pjay213 lol !!! none of those Lakers were in their prime. Prime years are NBA 3 to 5. All three of those guys had 10 years or more in the league in a era with no training and terrible sports medicine and 2 of them had surgically repaired knees
@RubberWilbur FUCK YOU, DOES KOBE HAS MORE RINGS THAN FINGERS??? FUCK YOU STUPID!!! NEVER, NEVER, NEVER KOBE WILL BE LIKE BILL RUSSELL. KOBE EGO IS BIGGER THAN HIS TALENT.... CELTIC PRIDE... NEVER YOUR "FAKERS" TEAM WILL BE LIKE THE CELTICS!
@switchinlaaaaaaaanes MY GOD...clasic retarded kobe/laker fan....no ideea about basketball...thinks an arrogant selfish, gelous very taleted player is the best ever?????
@gfscarface13 how do you know that? Russell was bigger than Rodman, same size as dwight howard. If he was born in the 80s he'd be built like a tank same as all those guys. He had a terrific leap, high jumped 6'9
Watchin those old dudes is deceptive. They didn't have 50 years of film to watch, no trainers, no playbooks. They invented modern basketball - greater brains will always win and Russell had one of the greatest
"yes "we" did that too u and yes u come back "we" will do it again" russell had no concept of what an individual was that is why he is the greatest winner of all time
@dring4 why are you arguing with a guy who actually saw Chamberlain and Russell play? The only evidence you ever bring up in your arguments is directly from Simmons' book. You don't have an opinion on this, you just regurgitate Simmons' opinion. Also, what are you doing correcting people's spelling when you spell nearly every word wrong yourself?
if anyone thinks that russell wasnt a better player than chamberlain, read The Basketball Book By Bill Simmons. it presents a strong case as to why russell is better. or you could read any other book by a player that played with or against them. even his teamate, jerry west said that chamberlain was to concerned with stats and not enough of a team player to be better. also, because blocks wernt counted back then we have no way of knowing, but players of his era believ that he couldv had 8-10 bpg
@dring4 I won't comment about who was better. But that book is awful.
It's rubbish.
Either Simmons didn't do any research before he wrote it (which is one of the worst flaws a writer can have) & he SAYS he did - or he's the most slanted writer I've seen in 50 years of reading sports writing.
Just one example. Why does he say the Warriors ditched Wilt? They wanted him! Not one word about the fact, the $150,000 + players they got for Wilt SAVED THE WARRIOR FRANCHISE FROM BANKRUPTCY.
@Vstrat0 actually they Didn't want Wilt. almost no one in the NBA/ABA wanted him. the lakers had a vote on wether to keep him or trade him away and it was 9-2 in favor of trading him away. he may have saved them from bankrupt but that wasnt the reason they traded him. and i've read the books he cited in the book and i found out that YES he did do research. and i was a great book (but thats my opinion) just out of curiosity, what team are you a fan of?
@dring4 lol so even though every owner in the league offered money to help Gottlieb lure Chamberlain away from the Globetrotters, they didn't want him?
Oh I've studied that era believe me.
Riddle me this. How many HoF did Russell play with? AT THE SAME TIME, ON THE SAME COURT.
Don't say Chamberlain had just as many HoF on his teams when they were staggered across 3 different teams over 14 years. Russell had as many as 7 on the same team at the same time - more than ANY OTHER TEAM IN HISTORY
@Vstrat0 again u didnt do research. wilt went thru so many teams its hard to compare their teams, so ill count the years 1 had a better team than the other. look these up. Russell had a better team in 61-64 and slightly in 60. 65 they wer equal. Wilts teams wer better in 66-69. the final is 5-4-1 Russell. almost even yet the ring count isnt close. he had more HoF players than any other team cus ther was only 6 teams so every1 had 5+. anyway for most of his career KC and cousy wer 2 old.
@dring4 I'm sorry my friend. There might have been 6 teams a couple years in the 1940s. I watched these guys from the 66-67 season on. There were 9 teams in the league, & 14 by the time Chamberlain retired.
Chicago Zephyrs for example, became the Bullets... Bucks showed up 68-69...
A good website you might check out is basketball-reference dot
and another would be basketball dot it has a good expansion team history.... NBA Growth Timetable
@dring4 Yeah, that is best idea my friend. Yhink the 1960 Warriors were a match for the Celtics?
Yeah, we're done arguin all right.....
'68 Sixers WERE a better team than the Celtics - until Cunningham broke his arm in the playoffs and 2 other starters, Greer and Walker, were out with hamstring injuries.
Imagine today's Lakers in the playoffs. Lamar has a broken arm, and Artest & Bryant are both down with hamstrings. You think Gasol could win a ring?
@Vstrat0 man i said i was done arguin but wutever. wilt only played 45 Mpg cuz he was so obsessed with stats that he wanted to not foul out his whole life (he suceeded). How did that become 8-1-1? u only mentioned 1 year. and did u really just say the celtics didnt get to G7 last year? the series ended in 7 not 6 and they lost cuz perk was out and no other center could play D and they didnt call Paus up and down at the end.
But i just wanna know, do u think Bill or Wilt was a better player?
@dring4 I'm not comparing anybody. I'm pointing out how terrible that book is. It's full of misleading crap. No credible sports-writer would skew the truth like that.
You'll have to read the posts again because you got it almost 100% wrong.
And did you really read Wilt's book? Because it's got a lot more to say about those games than anything Simmons wrote.
I watched a lot of those games, and it's just flat fact - Simmons does not tell that story anywhere close to the way it happened.
@dring4 I agree they lost cuz Perkins was out. Just like the Lakers lost when Chamberlain blew out his knee.
If you believe Simmons, Perkins was a fallen hero on the field of battle, but Chamberlain was a coward. Simmons book is trash, good for starting a campfire but not much else.
Comment removed
OneHundredPoints 1 week ago
@OneHundredPoints didn't you realize I was being sarcastic? did you read what L3g3ndkill4 said? come on man..your losing it
MarkBird32 1 week ago
ME=GOAT
32shaqattaq 3 weeks ago
Ok Bill Russell is not overrated in fact you have to explain to people now who he is. He was just good and that's a fact.
atxbeast7 1 month ago
Fuckin legend!!!
OuterSpace90 1 month ago
Most overrated NBA player. Stop respecting him just because hes a legend everyone knows he wasnt a great NBA player as people say he is.
L3g3ndkill4 1 month ago
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@L3g3ndkill4 Russell is probably the best defender in NBA history and if they had kept blocks as a stat he would be the all-time leader in that too. 5 NBA MVPs, 11 titles, 2nd all-time in total rebounds and rpg. Won titles as a player/coach. Captain and centerpiece of the Celtic dynasty that won 8 titles in a row. He changed the whole game in terms of defense and also allowed the BOS fastbreak to succeed. Stats alone can't measure his impact on the floor.
BNS224 1 month ago
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@L3g3ndkill4 No doubt he was not a great low post threat but his speed and hustle made him a threat on offense. Unfortunately they did not keep track of offensive rebs but he would get a lot and allow his team extra possessions. His speed would wear down other opposing centers and when he needed to he could score like in game 7 of the 62 finals against the Lakers he finished with 30 pts and 40 rebounds.
BNS224 1 month ago
@L3g3ndkill4 That is horseshit. Congratulations you are the stupidest person I've met in a while. One thing you can't deny are his 11 rings. The best winner in NBA History. Now you have to ask yourself retard...How did he win all those rings? On average he played more minuted than all the Celtics players and if you ask any of those Celtics they will tell you he led them to 11 rings. If anything he was underrated because he didn't score like everyone but his contribution can't be denied, stupid.
Flipper79able 1 month ago 4
@Flipper79able LOLk
L3g3ndkill4 1 month ago
@Flipper79able I give you credit for trying to deal with this guy...it's hard to comprehend how anyone especially basketball fans could say this guy was overrated...his genius for the game and life is so rare compared to all the other greatest players...Magic, Bird, Jordan, Wilt, West, Big O, Kareem were all genius's but they all have more respect for what Russell did and envy him more than anyone who ever played because the best of the best all want one thing.....to win
MarkBird32 1 week ago
@L3g3ndkill4
wow
ChillyCloth 4 weeks ago
@L3g3ndkill4 Most overrated player yes,he was terrible at losing games and titles,the guy just didn't get it,8 titles in a row,11 out of 13 years,he should of realized no athlete is supposed to do that or ever did do that, your right about him just being a legend and respecting him,I wouldn't want to respect someone who kicked my ass every time I played them in something,also the guy didn't understand that he should of scored more points while winning over and over again,stats are more important
MarkBird32 3 weeks ago
bill russel is the fucking king
Shamoles 2 months ago 6
GOAT
FreshFromDaBasement 2 months ago
8 ppl are chamberlain fans.
nasoszeppos 3 months ago
1:01 BOOTY SHORTS LOL. NO disrespect Russell you one of the all time greats
Scootertoot64 3 months ago
Arguably, the greatest. Except for Scalabrine, of course.
acebodine 3 months ago 2
Most NBA fans are delusional. Most humans are stupid. for one it's become accepted that Michael Jordan is the greatest player ever. He is not. Bill Russell is. It's also accepted that players like Chamberlain are one of the few players who could hold up physically in todays game. Another misnomer. IT's actually the other way around. most NBA players today would be eaten alive back then. If those Celtics teams played the bulls of the 90's Michael Jordan would get destroyed.
walker834 3 months ago
@walker834 its a different game from the 60's to the 90's back in the 60's they called little to no fouls they had no three point line and players back in that time played alot differently then they started to play in the 90's so u cant say who would win, bill russell was one of the greatest defensive players ever but he wasnt as good as a scorer as jordan was thats why soo many people love him because he can score the way he does
OMGCRAZY95 3 months ago
@OMGCRAZY95 But that's the thing. Russell was a timely scorer and played within the flow of the game and the offense. JOrdans scoring abilities are overrated imo. People like him because he soared above the rim and scored a lot. I'm not taking anythign away from Jordan. Well actually I am. I think he's clearly a great player and one of the greats but I think he is overrated in a lot of ways. Instead we get Michael Jordan is clearly the greatest and Bill Russell is one of the greatest.
walker834 3 months ago
@OMGCRAZY95 Russell was also a great passer and made his teammates better how he played the game offensively. He would run the floor and the style of basketball the celtics played was because of bill russell. That's why i never bought the whole team player argument. It's a team game. The game is played on both ends. Jordan was a great defender too, but Russell played the game on both ends how iw ould draw it up.
walker834 3 months ago
@walker834 The center is the most dominant player on the floor. Russell was a center who clearly got it. He wasnt about numbers. He was about winning. Defense, offense, everything in between. What more do you want? I honestly believe if those celtics played any team of any era they would win because Russell was the best ever.
walker834 3 months ago
@walker834 but then again jordan was a great passer and a great defender also, thats what im trying to say tho its hard to compare 2 players who play completely different positions a center and a shooting guard. and another reason why people believe jordan is the best is because he played in the 90's which is our generation we grew up in im sure back in the 60's and 70's bill russell was was talked about just as much as jordan
OMGCRAZY95 3 months ago
In Bill Russell's basketball career, including college(USF), Olympics and the NBA, Bill Russell played in 11 win or go home games. His record in those games: 11-0. 10 Game 7’s and one Game 5 in a best of 5. Phil Jackson as a player retired in 1980 after 13 years in the league, he averaged 6.7 points and 4.3 rebounds in 807 games. Don't compare his coaching rings to his rings as a player. Phil Jackson was never PLAYER COACH and won a ring. The Celtics never won a title until they had Russell.
geocgeo 3 months ago
you youngins are easily deceived by slow-motion replays.
wherearetheturtles 4 months ago
Can't wait to play as bill russel in 2k12
xdivision100 4 months ago 27
@xdivision100 But you know they are probably going to under rate him....making him slow, nd not being able to jump that high....and ofcourse with chamberlain they use the 34 or35 year old version...I guess Prime chamberlain is to scary for them
jongib369 4 months ago
@jongib369 yea they'll have to put prime chamberlain in the game. because in the challenge to get him you have to score 100 points with him
xdivision100 4 months ago
@jongib369 WHAT? "slow, and not being able to jump that high"? 1956 track and field season. Russell high jumped 6-9¼ to tie for the West Coast Relays title and also won 6 other meets. Russell placed 2nd at the California Relays and 3rd at the Compton Invite.He won 6 meets and had 3 jumps over 6-8 during the 1956 season. Track & Field News ranked Russell the 7th best jumper in the world and 3rd best in the USA for the 56 season. Russell was the CENTER for the NBA east all stars 12 times.
geocgeo 4 months ago
@geocgeo haha you misunderstood me :P. I said the makers of the game will make him slow and not able to jump high...Not that *I* think he was slow and couldn't jump. The man was definitely an athlete, and Im well aware of his greatness and his feats....or did I just misunderstand you?
jongib369 4 months ago
@xdivision100 2k12 is a lil bit dissapointing i have the game i like 2k11 way better only thing better in 2k12 is my player
OMGCRAZY95 3 months ago
@OMGCRAZY95 i like 2k12 but the thing that i don't like is shooting. i don't know when to release to shoot the ball
xdivision100 3 months ago
1:52 bill russell is a black emo?
jayjoetube14 4 months ago
whoever was under that putback at 4:47 should thank russell for being included in the first ever putback dunk of all time.
raczinger20 4 months ago
This mans is an example of how rings don't count for anything. Barkley is great but has no rings Lebron is no king because he has no rings Jordans 6 rings makes him without a doubt the G.O.A.T Some think if Kobe can be the greatest if he gets 2 more. Bill has 11 as a player, 2 of those years he was the coach which means he is really tied with Phil for most rings all time but they dont count them for some reason. And I never hear anyone say Bill name in GOAT conversations.
murdaville100 5 months ago
@murdaville100 you runnin in the wrong circles if you don't hear Bill's name in that conversation
stere0brain 3 months ago
If Wilt and Russell swapped rosters, does Russell still win 11 titles? I'm not so sure.
Wilt doesn't quite get enough credit for what he accomplished simply because he didn't have enough firepower on his teams for enough seasons. That said, Wilt was twice on a team that set an NBA record for most wins in a season.
But Russell was probably the greatest defender the game has ever seen, and Wilt vs. Russell the greatest individual rivalry.
mrmacross 5 months ago
@mrmacross totally agree. Russell on those Warriors and WC on those Celtics would have been a total joke.
People downplay KC Jones but the fact is he was the best perimeter defender of those early NBA days... guards got so nervous playing him they called it KC-itus.
Cousy and Sharman outside with Chamberlain in the paint? And Heinsohn crashing the boards, they'd have been crazy kinds of great... and those later Celtics with Sam Jones and Havlicek would have demolished everything in their path
ZipperZappleZ 5 months ago
@mrmacross meanwhile Russell, with few offensive skills, would have languished on a last place team
ZipperZappleZ 5 months ago
Russell make a more important roll in his team than Chamberlain do.
He makes a team better than Chamberlain.
These players are often underestimated.
zqdz123 5 months ago
@zqdz123 check out what Bill says about Havlicek & Sam Jones. watch?v=sY4EhnRgBWU
Without those guys, Russell says, he thinks he MIGHT have won 3 rings. MAYBE, he says. (I'd figure those 3 rings to be his first 3, with Cousy, Sharman, Heinsohn, Ramsay, Sanders, & Jones Bros - all Hall of Fame)
He didn't talk Sam into making those baskets. Sam made those baskets.
Before you assume he made his team better, check out their PER numbers
Russell 18.9
Wilt 26.1
That's an enormous difference.
musikaNeues 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@musikaNeues /watch?v=Lv5GrV1GAnA Wilt's head at rim level!
kileer7 5 months ago
@kileer7 it figures.... you got spammed.
Yeah that's a awesome clip of WC in his glory days
musikaNeues 5 months ago
@musikaNeues Russell is extremely modest.I love how he uses the word we and not I at 2:41-2:47. No doubt the Celtics in the 60s were stacked but Havlicek, Jones, and the rest of the Celts benefitted more from having Russell on the team than the other way around. Russell was a winner with the University of SF which was not exactly a powerhouse as well as the NBA. Also the PER is a bunch of crap ,According to the PER Chris Paul, LeBron James, and D Wade are ahead of Magic, Bird, and the Big O.
BNS224 5 months ago
@BNS224 totally agree about Russell - he was amazing. My point is - as Russell has pointed out his entire life - all the myth around Chamberlain is crazy. People bash him without knowing fact and that is totally wrong.
The guy really was the Babe Ruth of basketball but he gets treated like garbage and that ain't fair.
musikaNeues 5 months ago
@musikaNeues I respect Wilt. As an individual he is the most dominating player to play in the NBA so far. I am not saying he had the best bball skills but Wilt did things that are difficult to do in video games. I think if Wilt had been taught to play a team orientated style of bball earlier in his career he would of won numerous titles.
BNS224 5 months ago
@BNS224 No. Not the last place Warriors. If you look at his teammate's numbers you'll see just about all of them had career seasons when WC was their center (tho not with the Lakers, when he was 33 - 36 years old playing on a wrecked knee).
Assists were up across the board for the Warriors & the 2 guys that could score still got their numbers. Virtually every 76er had career seasons with Chamberlain, the one exception being Billy Cunningham who was 6th man when WC was there and started later
musikaNeues 5 months ago
@BNS224 nobody would expect a guy to win in '68 when his 6th man was out and 2 starters were walking on hamstrings. Can you imagine Dirk winning a ring this year when Terry has a broken arm, and Kidd & Marion have hamstring pulls?
Or in '71 when both Jerry West & Elgin Baylor were DNP for the playoffs.
Most people don't know the facts of those days so they just repeat myths they have heard or read
musikaNeues 5 months ago
@musikaNeues If Wilt had played like he did for the 66-67 76ers to start his career, I think he would of won more titles. I agree he did play in the playoffs with a depleted team due to injuries, and gets undue criticism for it. I am just saying his mentality for the 66-67 76ers under Hannum was great and wish he would of played like that earlier in his career. He trusted teammates and realized he could dominate the game without scoring 50 pts a game.
BNS224 5 months ago
@BNS224 I don't think you can blame a guy for his teams or his coaches.
When he got a good team with a good coach they demolished the Celtics.
musikaNeues 5 months ago
@musikaNeues No doubt when he had a good team and played a team orientated style of basketball they did beat the Celtics. But you can blame a guy for his team and coaches when he is demanding to be traded and threatens the coach that he is controlled by no one. If I was a decent scorer and was told I could go play with Wilt in 61-62 or 62-63 when he avg like 37 shots a game I probably would not want to play there. Its not like the 76ers wanted to get rid of Wilt in 68, he wanted to be traded.
BNS224 5 months ago
@BNS224 those are far separated & unrelated to each other.
First off if you look at the 61-63 Warriors numbers, you will find the scorers on that team got the same ppg they ever did. Everybody's assists went up, but scoring didn't go down.
Wilt & his attorney insisted to the end of his life that he was promised part ownership of the 76ers by Ike Richmond. When Ike died, the other owner reneged. Enraged by the cheat, Wilt told the 76ers they would either trade him or he'd jump to the ABA.
Fact.
musikaNeues 5 months ago
@BNS224 Nobody on earth that would stand for being cheated like that, let alone an elite athlete. When you add that to the fact Hannum left basketball to run his construction company, who was going to coach the 76ers? They let Wilt go, & went from Finals to worst team in history in 4 years.
2nd, what happened with Van Breda Kopf in 1969 on the Lakers has nothing to do with the 62 Warriors.
You can't lump things that happened 7 years apart into 1 sentence & expect me to believe they're related
musikaNeues 5 months ago
@musikaNeues No what I am saying is early in his career when avg like 37 shots a game no decent scorer would want to join that team. Then later in his career he starts to demand for a trade. That to some extent has Wilt accountable for both the players he played with and coachs he played under. If you don't like the coach grit your teeth and play hard. Even Michael Jordan who was hard on coachs, initially hated Phil Jackson's coaching but stuck with it and it ended with a good relationship.
BNS224 5 months ago
@BNS224 yeah, after Jordan got Doug Collins fired and alienated his entire team, he got the greatest coach in history.
Everybody wanted to play with Chamberlain. Red Auerbach tried everything he could think of to get Wilt to play for the Celtics. You should study up some more my friend.
musikaNeues 5 months ago
@musikaNeues No doubt Auerbach would want Wilt, he saw him as a threat and because Auerbach also saw him as a spectacular talent. But Red has also said that Chamberlain cared only about himself and his stats. I get your point that Wilt gets blamed a lot for some things he couldn't control. However some criticism he brought on himself. IMO he is the most dominant individual player to play so far but he would of won a lot more if he played a team style of basketball and kept everyone involved.
BNS224 5 months ago
At the end of the day, your goal should be to help your team win, and Russell's team won a championship almost every year.
He may not have scored the most, but your goal isn't to score the most points.
If you say he's the greatest, I won;t argue with you.
heatbucspies55 6 months ago
Bill Russell the greatest team player (knowing how to utilize his skills to get the most out of his team) in the history of team sports. If the NBA is going to retire any number across the league it should be #6.
BNS224 6 months ago
does anyone know how many blocks did bill russel got?
labliaczel 6 months ago
Offense wins games, Defense wins championships
LolsitzGeorge 6 months ago
Legend
nikehyper6 6 months ago
Bill Russell was the only guy that could give Wilt the Stilt an even match in the 60's. He was the best defensive center in NBA history. You had to see him to believe it. Chamberlain and Russell had plenty of games against each other with Russell ( 4 inches shorter) containing him. Celts won 8 championships in a row during this era.
1776freedom 6 months ago
i can absolutely gaurantee you that bill russell wouldn't have let dirk nowitski go to his left for an easy layup like that turnstile bosh did in the finals.according to a recent issue in sport illustrated on seven footers if you can run down the court without tripping youre guaranteed a contract.with only 8 teams during most of russells day they were a lot pickier.
djwc6 6 months ago
franzpolak. You are clueless. I attended dozens of games during the Russell era and there were plenty of guys who were huge (6-10 and up). Walt Bellamy, Willis Reed, Wade Halbrook, Clyde Lovellette, Nate Thurmond (the most underrated center of all time), and plenty more.
gdm49 6 months ago
@SeanMalachyDolan That's what I keep telling these jordan jockers, just because MJ won 6 rings in the weak expansion league teams in the 90s, doesn't make him the best ever, he didn't do anything against the great 80s teams :)
MerkinMuffly 6 months ago
@MerkinMuffly Whoa hold on MJ didnt do anything in the 80s r u crazy. Have you heard of the 63 points against Bird, when MJ was in the league for 2 years. lets not forget his 3rd where he average 37 ppg. Jordan ddnt win in the 80s bcuz of the teams but when Scottie n the rest of the bulls came in then he made progress. By that time the Jordan rules n the bad boys came in, but Jordan still average 35 points those playoffs, so Jordan dominated both 80s n 90s
TheMinnie45 6 months ago
Horry was a role player. Russell was captain and then player coach
musikaNeues 6 months ago
he's too smart to play 1vs1 on him
lebrondu38 7 months ago
Few people realize how great an athlete Bill was. At 6'10", he ran the 440 and the 880 on the track team and was the #7 rated high jumper in the world. It was incredible to see him chase down the very fast Jerry West from behind and block his layup. I'll never forget the expression on West's face: "where the hell did he come from?"
gdm49 7 months ago
To the know-nothing that said Russell wasn't that good on offense. Stay in school. Russell enjoyed blocking shots and intimidating the other team. He scored when he had to. For example, 1962 finals at LA. Russell scored 30 pts and grabbed 40 rebounds. I saw him play and he had a beautiful hook shot and was the best I have ever seen at grabbing a rebound and getting the outlet pass to his breaking guard while still in the air. He was simply awesome and fast as a gazelle at 6'10"
gdm49 7 months ago
Great man we need to love him while we have him
TheEman67 7 months ago 3
He's like a basketball Jedi
iDjGio 7 months ago 23
@iDjGio he's like Obi-wan
sabbathgodsofmetal 5 months ago
Russell won 11 titles in 13 years, a record unmatched by any player in any sport. He beat Chamberlain like a drum. You guys who say Wilt was better never saw them play. I saw Russell play every home game at USF where he won 2 NCAA titles with only one other decent player on the team. I also saw Wilt play dozens of home games for the Warriors. Wilt was the greatest offensive player of all time. Russell was the greatest player -- period. MJ was the most exciting player.
gdm49 7 months ago
@gdm49 Russell was not that good on the offensive side
InFamous5823 7 months ago
@InFamous5823 He didn't have to Defense wins Championships, not Offense
MerkinMuffly 6 months ago
@gdm49 I saw wilt dozens of times. He was far greater than Russell, at every aspect of the game.
The Celtics had better players in the early years, & an incredible string of luck as far as injuries in the later years. Chamberlain lost 6 starters in 4 years in playoffs - including himself in 69.
You can say what you want but it's fact Russell NEVER. EVER. beat Chamberlain like a drum.
You can't pull the "I was there" card on me. I was there too for a lot of it and that's just flat wrong.
musikaNeues 5 months ago
damn thats a big dude
justchill919 7 months ago
oh by the way russell won 4 championships w/o cousy, 4 championships w/o havlicek, 1 championship w/o sam jones, and 2 championships w/o red auerbach
921xav 7 months ago
GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME: 11 CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!
921xav 7 months ago
wouldn't of been great if he was number 11
fenemy1 7 months ago
russell was a great defender but wilt chamberlain is the best C ever. 7'0 280 lbs he was strong, quick, and had a quality jumpshot for a big man. even in today's gm with the weight training and better players, i believe wilt would still be dominate and avg 25ppg 15rpg he was just that good
knink24 7 months ago
Best shot blocker ever because he understood how valuable it was to keep the block inbounds and block the ball to a teammate
ChalkThemUp 8 months ago
MJ has 6, Kobe has 5, shaq has 4....Bill Russell has 11....oh my
NWA657 8 months ago
stere0brain 8 months ago
Russell was the greatest player of all time. 11 titles in 13 years. He played chess and even Jordan was just playing checkers. Sorry to burst your bubble.
MrWakethesheeple 8 months ago
@MrWakethesheeple MJ is best ever. Russell was best ever in that time. Basketball back then wasnt anything than it is now. Too many skinny white dudes. But Russell is the best center of all time. I hate how people look at stats and say Wilt is best ever. He was 7'1 in a league where ha faced a bunch of Peja Stojavics. MJ played in the touchest time to play basketball. If Mj played when Russell played he would have averaged 100 points. And if he played now he would average 40 cus of stupid fouls.
wizboy211 8 months ago
Russell won 11 titles and it was a small league with a concentrated talent pool. Jordan's titles were against weak foes.
Oscar Robertson had the body to compete in the modern NBA and they didn't even have weight training that was scientific. He'd have a Lebron James type frame with more skill.
You are right that the game has progressed but if Jordan played back then, he wouldn't have been able to jump so high or do the things he did because training was different and the game was different.
MrWakethesheeple 8 months ago
@MrWakethesheeple Mj played against weak pllayers? you have to be kidding me thats really ignorant, Mj playede in the most competitiv etime of basketball ever. And it doesnt matter how mj was trained, he had the deathly will to win, thats why he won six titles, and so did russell, so russell has 11.
And Oscar robertson? Have you seen him? He dominated becasue he played against a nunch of jj redicks. he had the triple double season because that year there was no defense at all, go look at it.
wizboy211 8 months ago
Jordan beat the Suns (that was the toughest one and far from great). He beat a very old Magic Johnson just before HIV and scrubs. He beat Shawn Kemp and the Sonics who sucked. He beat the Jazz (very good but again an incomplete team). He beat the Blazers (who outplayed the Bulls but were screwed by officials BADLY). MJ never beat Bird, Magic or even Akeem in their prime.
Russell played Chamberlain, West, Robertson and Baylor in their primes. Malone, Drexler, Stockton, Akeem don't stack up.
MrWakethesheeple 8 months ago
@MrWakethesheeple your just talking about MJ and his titles. he played 6 seasons before the 90's you know. He played in the toughest stretch of basketball. You must not know anything about basketball because it was waaay different back when russell played. so much different rules and regulations. And the sonics didnt suck, the 93 title wasnt his best, they outplayed n 92, in 91 the lakers were still great(thats why they were in the fina;s) i love bill russell, but MJ was better!
wizboy211 8 months ago
@wizboy211 Oscar Robertson is correct; LeBron James is better than MJ. There's been lots of guys better.
Any team that can win games by an average 12 point spread is TOTALLY stacked and especially in coaching. He was the #1 scoring threat on the second most stacked team in history - 90s Bulls.
Those Russell teams were totally stacked too. As many as 8 HoF on the same team at the same time - 9 including their coach
stere0brain 8 months ago
@stere0brain WOW. Phil Jackson, one of the best coaches ever in any sport, said there will never ever be another MJ. There was nobody better and there will be nobody better. And obviously you dont know how basketball was back then. When Russell played, there was 8-12 teams. Of course there were multiple hall of fmaers. And Russell hasd the most because people wanted to play for him. He was such a great player, teammate, and human being. And in some of the years Russells teams didnt match up well
wizboy211 8 months ago
@wizboy211 lol I watched those guys from the cheap seats
stere0brain 8 months ago
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@wizboy211 Havlicek has 8, Sam Jones has 10....... but what people forget is that Tom Heinsohn was a basketball genius. He won 8 rings as a player and TWO MORE RINGS coaching the Hondo-JoJo Celtics. He shot only 40% fg..... which doesn't seem all that great until you know he launched hundreds of 3 pointers but got no credit for those long range shots. One of the greatest O threats ever. Most stacked teams in history, in order: 60s Celtics 90s Bulls 70s Knicks 80s Lakers 80s Celtics 00s Lakers
stere0brain 8 months ago
@wizboy211 MJ's career was just like Iverson's. Until he got a stacked team with a phenomenal coach he won nothin. Put AI on those 90s Bulls teams and he would have had a stack of rings.
stere0brain 8 months ago
@stere0brain you must have been born in 1997 or something. MJ carried AWFUL teams his entire career. He pushed his LIFE to win. Scottie PIppen was his best player besides him, then everyone else were scrubs pretty much. MJ changed that team, switch Drexler and MJ and the blazers would have multiple titles. you must know nothing about MJ. And Iverson wouldnt get to the playoofs with a bad team when MJ would win a title with a bad team. And Mj won the hios sith ring all by himself, watch the tape.
wizboy211 8 months ago
@wizboy211 did you even read my post? I watched those guys.
Horace, Kucoc, Rodman, Harper = scrubs. U bozo.
U need a lesson in basketball. Look up point spreads on those Bulls teams. They were winning games by 8, 10, 12 points a game OVER ENTIRE SEASONS.
Those are stacked teams, able to play stop defense at every position.
Look up 3peat Lakers. They averaged 3, 7, & 3 points a game victory over each season.
Find another team winning by 10 ppg. Save time.
60s Celtics are the only others.
stere0brain 8 months ago
@wizboy211 and if you think a high scorer is the reason for those point spreads you're even more lost. How come Bernard or AI or Elgin put up huge numbers but couldn't win rings? They didn't have teams that could compete - just like MJ had no team that could compete in the 80s, or in the 00s.
No matter how great MJ was he would NEVER have won rings without Phil Jackson shouting him down & that dynasty would NEVER have happened without stacked teams.
You need to study ball, not bill simmons.
stere0brain 8 months ago
@stere0brain Ive read Bill Simmons, I loathe Michael Jordan. MJ was a superb athlete, player, teammate, and person. Yes, Phil shut him down a little, but how come Larry Brown couldnt do it to AI? He was a thug. And Elgin didnt win a title because he couldnt. Great player, played for great teams, but you need more than that. you need a will to win. And MJ played in the toughest era of basketball, if your a true bball fan you would know that. MJs teams werent stacked, your talking nonsense. done.
wizboy211 8 months ago
@wizboy211 I disagree. Today's NBA is far better than it was in the 90s. Teams are better, D is better, and refs are better.
How come Shaq didn't smash Bulls in the paint when he played them? Or Ewing? Couldn't.
Bulls defense was swarming, at every position.
5 & 6 players getting 1000+ points a season = a balanced, stacked team.
You can be a MJ fanboy, who cares? But you're in denial if you think his teams weren't stacked.
Just like those 6, 7 & 8 HoF Celtics teams were in the 60s.
stere0brain 8 months ago
@stere0brain you really think having will perdue, bill wennington, tony kukoc, charles oakley could easily stop the likes of Ewing, Olajuwan, Robinson, and Shaq? And you must not have watched in the 90s. teams now SUCK. there was a good amount of teams in the 80s and 90s, then they kept adding. tell me 3 more hall of famers than Pippen and MJ. Yes, they were balnced. but thats becuase of a good GM and the best player there ever was. your just trying to make it look like AI"s career sucked cus gm
wizboy211 8 months ago
@wizboy211 So then MJ stopped those guys himself did he?
Grant, Harper, & yes there's a case for Bill Cartwright, great scorer in his early years but turned into a defensive player who hadn't forgot how to make important baskets which is what the Bulls needed. Was he Shaq? No, but he's probably in the top 25 centers and top 200 alltime.
Oh wait Rodman already there, that's 4.
But sillyboy1 you don't have to have HoF caliber to be stacked. Just the strongest all round at each position as a team
stere0brain 8 months ago
@stere0brain And D is better, but that sbecause there is no hand checking anymore. the refs are actually nice, but some are terrible. you must have started wathing basketball in 2001 or something. I dont want to talk to you anymore, clearly you are biased about your oopinions and i am about mine. Oh, and Bill Russells teams were as stacked as Wilt Chamberlains. But people like you dont wnt to realize it and make excuses for people like Wilt and AI's career.
wizboy211 8 months ago
@wizboy211 I've told you already let me tell you again, I watched Russell and Chamberlain from the cheap seats.
I'm not making excuses for anybody. I'm pointing out that no matter how great a player is, he'll never win rings without a great team around him, n even a great team won't win unless they have a coach that understands their skillsets.
Phil Jackson proved that most perfectly with the Bulls and then again with the Lakers.
60s Lakers stacked like Celtics? Obviously you never saw them.
stere0brain 8 months ago
@stere0brain Im not saying they were stacked, im saying they were goo enough teams to beat the Celtics, but they couldnt, because Russell wouldnt let them (until he was injured, and then of slightly decreasing.) But as a basketball lover to another, I have stated my point. I am tired of these little fights. May you have a nice life and continue a lifelong basketball fan. But i will ask you something, wasnt it amazing to watch Wilt play?
wizboy211 8 months ago
@wizboy211 Oh yeah. Lifetime event. Most dominating player to ever step foot on a court. I saw the Finals game when he ruined his knee. Just to show how primitive medicine was in those days.., they sprayed freon on his knee.
By the time I saw Russell he was in his last season or two. His leaping ability was long past but he was ferocious. It's pure myth to say he couldn't jam league today. Check out Durant schooling the league or Rodman winning 7 rebounding titles, or Howard - same size as BR
stere0brain 8 months ago
@stere0brain Yes, I agree. People watch clips of Chamberlain now and think its amazing. But those are just little highlights. It was amazing just to watch him run the floor and score.
Same with Russell. I loved his blocks that turned into fastbreaks.
wizboy211 8 months ago
@wizboy211 best block I ever saw was on one of Russell's hook shots. It went rocketing off the hand, clear out to the midcourt line, and Logo walked in with the layup. Perfectly timed, perfectly aimed, perfectly devastating. Celtics called time out.
stere0brain 8 months ago
@stere0brain Do you remember watching Pistol play? Most exciting athlete i have ever watched.
wizboy211 8 months ago
@wizboy211 oh yeah he was incredible smooth had a flow to his offense like nobody else I ever saw. Dr. J had flair but Pete was somethin else. Connie Hawkins could make a crowd thunder too
stere0brain 8 months ago
@stere0brain yeah, people seem to forget the players after Russell and before Jordan besides Bird, Magic, and Kareem. I loved watching David Thompson. So sad he got into drugs and money to early in his career. If he had stayed sober and loyal, we'd be talking about MJ's career and Kobe's in many different ways.
wizboy211 8 months ago
@wizboy211 DT rocked the house!! Lots of guys had vertical it's a myth to say those guys weren't as great athletes as today's. Today guys are terrific and no mistake but if you transported a 60s or 70s Great into today's world, gave him the same benefits of starting ball at 6 years old, 50 years of film to study , strict diet and the rest.... they'd be in the league.
People seem to think evolution has happened in 40 years what a joke that is.
stere0brain 8 months ago
geocgeo 5 months ago
I hate it when Kobe is compared to MJ or even named number 2 because it is total disrespect to Russell and other legends of the game who arguably could be considered number 1 in history. It's like they totally bypass these other great players in the argument. A travesty,
uberathlete 9 months ago
@mcmillspiece teach this cat something for sure bcuz he simply cant hear mentally. The centers he speaks of will bow down to russell, literally.
heenky2 9 months ago
There's a reason why the NBA finals mvp is named after him.
DaChipmunkFunk 9 months ago
Comment removed
kileer7 9 months ago
russell blocks a shot, tips the ball to a teammate for an easy fastbreak layup or uncontested jumper - instant four point swing (so much for his "mediocre" offensive arsenal). how many guys do that today? shotblockers like howard, okafor etc. care more about showboating and impressing a bunch of 12 yr olds than playing efficiently. and howard is supposedly winning another dpoy this year, it's laughable. the guy is only second to chamberlain for most spikes into the stands as he blocks a shot.
franzpolak 9 months ago 18
@franzpolak
I agree. But guys like Russell and Chamberlain with 6'10+ players, playing in a league where the average height was about 6'3...............................
They were giants compared to the people they played against. Even in 1965 (half way through his career) the tallest scorers were only 6'3-6'5.
Guys like Pettit, Russell and Chamberlain dominated defensively. And some of it has to just be the fact that they were considerably bigger than nearly everyone else in the league
PacquiaoEPO 6 months ago
@PacquiaoEPO That's funny. You're funny!!
Here I was thinking Bellamy was 6'11, Reed was 6'10, Thurmond was 6'11, Dukes was 7'... gosh you sure know more about it than us old guys who actually watched basketball in the 60s & 70s. All those guys were just 6' !
By the way, what does tallest scorer mean? Like Jordan, Barkley, Bernard King, Jerry West... those 6'4 guys?
Same size as today's Gs & Fs when you know the FACT that every player since '85 is measured in his shoes.
LOL yer funny
musikaNeues 6 months ago
What I'm saying is, Russell used to face 6'4 guys trying to jump shot over him.
Dwight Howard faces guys, close to his own size and weight, who take big run ups, take off, and dunk it at him.
It's a different game.
No way Russell would block anywhere near as many shots, or get anywhere near as many rebounds, if he was facing 6'8 inch guys, trying to dunk on him every single game of the season
PacquiaoEPO 6 months ago
@PacquiaoEPO you're going to penalize russell for his size and athletic ability compared to guys in his own era, but you don't penalize howard on his obvious athletic superiority to most centers in the league today? i wasn't making a point about the number of blocks and rebounds, so i'm going to spell it out for you: WHY WOULD HOWARD SPIKE THE BALL IF HE CAN TIP IT (and he can do it) - russell understood that and howard doesn't. your comment has nothing to do with what i wrote.
franzpolak 6 months ago
@franzpolak To Russel a block or a tipped rebound that did not get to a teammate was a failure.
AMilitantAgnostic 4 months ago in playlist Old School NBA
Russell is amazing. Dudes were playing against the basketball Sun Tzu ... they never had a chance.
kileer7 9 months ago 2
read bill simmon's "book of basketball" it's an amazing and entertaining (yet deep) book, and it dedicates lots of pages to compare russell and chamberlain. from what i've read there's really no comparison between the two. one player gave his team 11 (ELEVEN!!!) rings and the other... two. (the last one when russell had already retired)
nasoszeppos 9 months ago
@nasoszeppos read more, then. One of the worst sports books I ever read poorly written, poorly researched, full of slanted, misleading crap.
stere0brain 8 months ago
@stere0brain the book is great, simmons is truly THE sports guy. the only bad think about the book is that it doesn't have any references to Bargnani and Barbosa, two of the greatest players of our decade. Go play NBA 2k10/11 and see for yourselves. They are unstoppable.
ps: same goes for Stoudamire
nasoszeppos 8 months ago
@nasoszeppos nah. Read those posts on here by vstrat0 for a total destruction of that chapter on Chamberlain. Simmons is full of canary poop, didn't do research, skewed facts, avoided difficult truths.
60s Celtics were flat out most stacked teams in history. Just like Jordan in the 80s, or AI, Wilt couldn't beat a totally stacked team no matter how great he was because his teammates were garbage.
And even when he was on team like Blake Griffin's he STILL lost 5 ECF by less than 10 points total
stere0brain 8 months ago
As many College and NBA titles as Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson combined, FACT!!! Lebron James would have to win like 40 straight championships to have same winning percentage as Russell FACT!!! Russell would have had to quit on his team in a game 7, 2 times to beat out Kobe, FACT!!!
pjay213 10 months ago
TheMCBluster 10 months ago
1:20 . Friendly fire :p
Bill russel is the definition of balling
JDogx28 11 months ago
RubberWilbur 11 months ago
@RubberWilbur Wilt joined the lakers with West and Elgin all in their primes and they still couldnt get it done over Russell the Player/Coach. For those that say, he had so much talent with him, then explain the 60 straight college wins for San Francisco (Not exactly a perenial powerhouse before or after Russell). Keep in mind freshmen couldnt play back then, and yet his freshmen team beat the Varsity. Rodman over Duncan, really?
pjay213 11 months ago
@pjay213 Duncan is great and reminds me of Kareem, however his career has not finished. I'm sure in a few years he could easily bump Rodman off. Rodman has 5 NBA championships and THE greatest rebounder of all time in my opinion.
RubberWilbur 11 months ago
@RubberWilbur I See your point about not putting current players in there. Still, I dont see you have Russell at #6. 13 Championships in 16 years from College and the pros. Many experts (Including Dr. Jack Ramsey) have claimed Russell averaged a triple double with Points, Rebounds and Blocks. Unheard of in any era. Too much emphasis goes on PPG, instead of who gets there team to win. Nothing against Jordan, but it took him years to realize that less PPG led to him winning championships.
pjay213 10 months ago
@pjay213 The talent and competition in Jordan's era was far more superior than the talent and competition in Russell's era in my opinion. Plus Jordan, even at 6 foot 7, in his era was considered a guard and smaller. Russell's height helped him tremendously.
RubberWilbur 10 months ago
@pjay213, on the Jordan part, not really. Jordan averaged more points per game when the Bulls weren't good because he had no one on his team. The need to score rested entirely on him. It's not like one day he said "oh I should stop scoring so much" and then the Bulls won. Quality players got added to the Bulls and there was less pressure on him to score. Besides in the six championship years he averaged 31, 30, 33, 30, 30, 29, so that's not really a significant decrease in PPG.
jdlund 10 months ago
@pjay213, as for Bill Russell and the triple double thing, I really doubt it. I've heard that claim with Chamberlain too that he averaged ten, fifteen blocks or whatever. I've heard that with Jerry West in terms of steals. Since there are no stats people love to throw out these huge numbers that are almost certainly BS. Even if someone watched all the games, I doubt they kept an accurate mental tally. Without analyzing all game film, which I doubt is available, it is baseless nonsense.
jdlund 10 months ago
@jdlund it's not baseless since teams back then basically played a run and gun style, putting up more shots than at any point in nba history, teams relied on the inside game because nobody had a decent jumpshot (perimeter players averaged below and just about 40% on their fg attempts) and most players back then weren't as athletic as russell. boston sports writers did keep occasional stats on blocks, and some of them claim there were stretches when he averaged between 10 and 15 blocks a game.
franzpolak 9 months ago
@franzpolak, stretches I might buy. It's when people try to claim that Russell or Chamberland averaged 10 blocks a game or so for the entire season that I say bullshit. Unless you watch every last game it is pure speculation because you are either basing it on a handful of games or just a hunch that a guy like Russell could have averaged that much for a whole season. Given the style of the game I have no doubt they averaged high block numbers, but I don't buy 10+ a game for a season at all.
jdlund 9 months ago
@jdlund it's not inconceivable, but i agree it's unlikely. people talk about the triple double thing because they don't understand why an athletic dunker like russell averaged less than 15 ppg for his career - if it's not in the box score, it's forgotten or overlooked. since statistics in basketball today are overrated to the point that everybody's being compared to everybody, people can't help themselves, i guess. the triple double is overrated, winning championships is horribly underrated.
franzpolak 9 months ago
@pjay213 lol !!! none of those Lakers were in their prime. Prime years are NBA 3 to 5. All three of those guys had 10 years or more in the league in a era with no training and terrible sports medicine and 2 of them had surgically repaired knees
stere0brain 8 months ago
@RubberWilbur Kobe Bryant is better than literally all 10 of those players you fucking idiot.
FUCK BILL RUSSELL KOBE OWNS HIM LAKERS 4 LIFE BITCHES
switchinlaaaaaaaanes 10 months ago
@RubberWilbur FUCK YOU, DOES KOBE HAS MORE RINGS THAN FINGERS??? FUCK YOU STUPID!!! NEVER, NEVER, NEVER KOBE WILL BE LIKE BILL RUSSELL. KOBE EGO IS BIGGER THAN HIS TALENT.... CELTIC PRIDE... NEVER YOUR "FAKERS" TEAM WILL BE LIKE THE CELTICS!
TheMCBluster 10 months ago
@switchinlaaaaaaaanes MY GOD...clasic retarded kobe/laker fan....no ideea about basketball...thinks an arrogant selfish, gelous very taleted player is the best ever?????
dake8523 10 months ago
Bill Russell would not even make the clippers bench today.
gfscarface13 11 months ago
@gfscarface13 how do you know that? Russell was bigger than Rodman, same size as dwight howard. If he was born in the 80s he'd be built like a tank same as all those guys. He had a terrific leap, high jumped 6'9
Watchin those old dudes is deceptive. They didn't have 50 years of film to watch, no trainers, no playbooks. They invented modern basketball - greater brains will always win and Russell had one of the greatest
stere0brain 8 months ago
"yes "we" did that too u and yes u come back "we" will do it again" russell had no concept of what an individual was that is why he is the greatest winner of all time
123four124 11 months ago
bill russell used to tear wilt up...
hottestni99a 11 months ago
Bill Russell : lord of the rings
1233eli 1 year ago 64
@dring4 why are you arguing with a guy who actually saw Chamberlain and Russell play? The only evidence you ever bring up in your arguments is directly from Simmons' book. You don't have an opinion on this, you just regurgitate Simmons' opinion. Also, what are you doing correcting people's spelling when you spell nearly every word wrong yourself?
DerrickWashington24 1 year ago
those guys are nothing to me they dont know to duck in a modern way and they dont know how to dribble the ball u stupid idiot
glenness2323 1 year ago
if anyone thinks that russell wasnt a better player than chamberlain, read The Basketball Book By Bill Simmons. it presents a strong case as to why russell is better. or you could read any other book by a player that played with or against them. even his teamate, jerry west said that chamberlain was to concerned with stats and not enough of a team player to be better. also, because blocks wernt counted back then we have no way of knowing, but players of his era believ that he couldv had 8-10 bpg
dring4 1 year ago
@dring4 I won't comment about who was better. But that book is awful.
It's rubbish.
Either Simmons didn't do any research before he wrote it (which is one of the worst flaws a writer can have) & he SAYS he did - or he's the most slanted writer I've seen in 50 years of reading sports writing.
Just one example. Why does he say the Warriors ditched Wilt? They wanted him! Not one word about the fact, the $150,000 + players they got for Wilt SAVED THE WARRIOR FRANCHISE FROM BANKRUPTCY.
Rubbish
Vstrat0 1 year ago
@Vstrat0 actually they Didn't want Wilt. almost no one in the NBA/ABA wanted him. the lakers had a vote on wether to keep him or trade him away and it was 9-2 in favor of trading him away. he may have saved them from bankrupt but that wasnt the reason they traded him. and i've read the books he cited in the book and i found out that YES he did do research. and i was a great book (but thats my opinion) just out of curiosity, what team are you a fan of?
dring4 1 year ago
@dring4 lol so even though every owner in the league offered money to help Gottlieb lure Chamberlain away from the Globetrotters, they didn't want him?
Oh I've studied that era believe me.
Riddle me this. How many HoF did Russell play with? AT THE SAME TIME, ON THE SAME COURT.
Don't say Chamberlain had just as many HoF on his teams when they were staggered across 3 different teams over 14 years. Russell had as many as 7 on the same team at the same time - more than ANY OTHER TEAM IN HISTORY
Vstrat0 1 year ago
@Vstrat0 again u didnt do research. wilt went thru so many teams its hard to compare their teams, so ill count the years 1 had a better team than the other. look these up. Russell had a better team in 61-64 and slightly in 60. 65 they wer equal. Wilts teams wer better in 66-69. the final is 5-4-1 Russell. almost even yet the ring count isnt close. he had more HoF players than any other team cus ther was only 6 teams so every1 had 5+. anyway for most of his career KC and cousy wer 2 old.
dring4 1 year ago
@dring4 I'm sorry my friend. There might have been 6 teams a couple years in the 1940s. I watched these guys from the 66-67 season on. There were 9 teams in the league, & 14 by the time Chamberlain retired.
Chicago Zephyrs for example, became the Bullets... Bucks showed up 68-69...
A good website you might check out is basketball-reference dot
and another would be basketball dot it has a good expansion team history.... NBA Growth Timetable
Boston was the Yankees, spent more than everybody
Vstrat0 1 year ago
@Vstrat0 well there was still less teams but whatever im done arguing. That was a kind of random reference to the red sox
dring4 1 year ago
@dring4 Yeah, that is best idea my friend. Yhink the 1960 Warriors were a match for the Celtics?
Yeah, we're done arguin all right.....
'68 Sixers WERE a better team than the Celtics - until Cunningham broke his arm in the playoffs and 2 other starters, Greer and Walker, were out with hamstring injuries.
Imagine today's Lakers in the playoffs. Lamar has a broken arm, and Artest & Bryant are both down with hamstrings. You think Gasol could win a ring?
That's what happened to the '68 76ers.
Vstrat0 1 year ago
man u cant compare Cunningham, Greer, and Walker to Kobe
dring4 1 year ago
@dring4 I'm not comparing them to Kobe.
Can you imagine the Lakers winning a ring with all those guys out with injuries? There would be no possible way Gasol could win a ring.
Just like there was no way Chamberlain was going to beat the Celtics with all those guys seriously injured.
Vstrat0 1 year ago
@dring4 suddenly it's not 5-4-1, it's 7-2-1.
'69 playoffs? G7 Wilt injured the knee that lasted nine games the next season, before he fell and had to have surgery. Out for the season.
What happened to Kendrick last year? You don't think losing him cost the Celtics going into G7? Of course it did.
Wilt was Iron Man, dude. He played 45 minutes every game for 14 years. If he was injured, he was injured.
Suddenly those teams are not 5-4-1, they are 8-1-1 - which leaves Hondo stole Greer's pass.
Vstrat0 1 year ago
@Vstrat0 man i said i was done arguin but wutever. wilt only played 45 Mpg cuz he was so obsessed with stats that he wanted to not foul out his whole life (he suceeded). How did that become 8-1-1? u only mentioned 1 year. and did u really just say the celtics didnt get to G7 last year? the series ended in 7 not 6 and they lost cuz perk was out and no other center could play D and they didnt call Paus up and down at the end.
But i just wanna know, do u think Bill or Wilt was a better player?
dring4 1 year ago
@dring4 I'm not comparing anybody. I'm pointing out how terrible that book is. It's full of misleading crap. No credible sports-writer would skew the truth like that.
You'll have to read the posts again because you got it almost 100% wrong.
And did you really read Wilt's book? Because it's got a lot more to say about those games than anything Simmons wrote.
I watched a lot of those games, and it's just flat fact - Simmons does not tell that story anywhere close to the way it happened.
Vstrat0 1 year ago
@dring4 I agree they lost cuz Perkins was out. Just like the Lakers lost when Chamberlain blew out his knee.
If you believe Simmons, Perkins was a fallen hero on the field of battle, but Chamberlain was a coward. Simmons book is trash, good for starting a campfire but not much else.
Vstrat0 1 year ago