Sarkozy's EuroMed summit re-ignites cross-Med cooperation

[71Warrior4Jesus]

Jesus loves you all

[Spenner56]

One example of how the (un-elected) 25 EU commissioners are deciding all of OUR futures in Europe :

"Next year (2009) could see Turkey make a crucial step forwards on it's path to EU membership..." (Enlargement commissioner Ollie Rehn).EVEN THOUGH a substantial MAJORITY of BOTH Turkish AND European citizens are AGAINST Turkey joining the EU !

Say NO again IRELAND !

t´s not too late,SAVE DEMOCRACY in Europe SIGN THE PETITION for a referendum at : X09"dot"de

[TreeHerder]

That's a nice analogy. You're right!

[vistavision2]

Do you put out the fire that has engulfed your neighbers house a block away; wait until it engulfs your nextdoor neighbor's house; wait further when you own house is on fire?

or is it more prudent to advise the neighbor a block away to build his house with a fire sprinkler system and contribute in the construction of infrastructure of fire department for that neighborhood?

Or pretend that the flames, heat, and smoke are non-existent?

Or pretend: zionist War Crimes are non-existent?

[TreeHerder]

I'm not sure how this new cooperation will benefit us, the EU citizens... Yeah, more stability, but that's just all...

[vistavision2]

Military strategy has political objectives; and political strategy has economic objectives.

Peace and security are the results of economic and political applications (foreign policy).

When political applications fail: war is the result.

Why permit the political context degenerate to the point where war operationas are necessary to stabilize a region when it can be done as a preventive measure as opposed to a reactionary measure?

End up same context: war has double expenditure.

[TreeHerder]

Great explanation! I understand and agree.

[TheCZMan]

"Peace and security are the results of economic and political applications (foreign policy)"

Security from what?Secure from what?

[vistavision2]

CZMan,

Poverty is parent of crime and rebellion.

Disenfranchised persons will provide for themselves of livelyhood.

Al queda was created by USA and European interests through nsponsoring the Moujahadeen to repel USSR in Afghanistan but thereafter abandoned them through negligence of failing to provide economic assistance as promised if they should defeat the USSR.

USA & Europe same end result: stabilize the region but now with cost more lives & exponentional expenditure

[vistavision2]

If anyone says "who cares about afghani/arab lives; well its American/Europen military and civilian lives that have been sacrificed which could been prevented by USA/EU keeping their promises to the Mujahadeen.

And now with this zionist propagated "clash of civilizations", Will it destabilze Europe before Europe re-stabilizes the middle east?

That is the comparison to the fire burning in the middle east; and embers have fallen on Europe- Madrid & London.

[TheCZMan]

Ummmmmm, there is a definite flaw in the line of argumentation. Actually, you introduced possible causes explaining why these countries should be protected from Europe and the US. I dont think that it is the purpose of that treaty.

[vistavision2]

It's not those countries that need protection from Europe (colonization is over) but Europe from those countries

What Sarkozy accomplished of this conference, Arafat proposed it in 1995

Example: 1977 USSR-USA Space Treaty provided a forum to meet as partners as opposed to contesting each other

Foreign relations are a matrix and not linearal; Global governance is maintained by creation of such umbrellas of common interests as opposed to diffracted interests of mutual contest/conflict

[TheCZMan]

Well, that does not go with the previous comment as in those, it was told that Europe and the US manipulated those countries to further their best (US and Eur.) interests.

I often heard that needs of protection from people in Europe and the US and I am interested in this stuff. Because how can the strong need to be protected from the weak? This goes in an opposite way of the western tradition. What dangers can a weak threaten the strong with so the strong needs to be protected?

[vistavision2]

CZman, its not the oppressed that become contestants but those are aware that they are oppressed.

Case Example, 911: 19 men armed with 19boxcutters and the will to do it created immediate one billion in economic losses to USA; and subsequent two more billion for security.

It triggered wars that shall be ten years of USA occupation to attempt to stabilize those two states at a cost of one TRILLION USD; not including what EU shall expend; just to keep the situation static.

[vistavision2]

Static: flatlined as opossed to degenerating into a situation where regional/global war erupts.

USA population is more naive/arogant because it does not have memory of what war is one's soil; Europe has also forgotten that war is total devastion (look at Iraq).

Do people that live in poverty fear poverty? NO, its normal and hope is is the key to a beter life.

Who sponsors oppression? A: USA/EU sponsor Israel crimes against humanity in occupied Palestine.

Desperation is not nice!

[vistavision2]

USA/Europe are in the exact same place of political staticity vis-a-vis middle east but have expended lives and financial resources just to stay at remain static.

In fact, are less secure than pre911: Sphere of influence may have expanded in eastern Europe but shrunk in the Middle East and Europes very one domestic population is not at ease as long as Rule of International Law and Human right of Palestinians are paid lip service of hypocrisy- simultaneously sponsoring Israel War Crimes

[TheCZMan]

I did not understand the answer. Reading them, it would again a case for advocating a protection of those countries from US and Europe, not the reverse. Iraq is an example of that. Coping with the consequences of actions led by a party of men which were not even Iraqis. Iraq's ties to 9,11 are none yet Iraq has to endure the wrath of the US/EU. Again, should be a case for advocating protection for Iraq from US/Eu, not the reverse.

[vistavision2]

The Iraqi war was continuation of 1990 war; Saddam's contravention to UN Resolutions; consequenced because of half assed measures in th firt place.

Israel case is far worse: measures designed to appease Israel which circumvent and contravene International laws as oposed to enforcement of international laws.

There are only two avenues to resolve issues: Diplomacy or war.

War is not illegal; nor should ever become illegal.

War is the only recourse to remove tryants and despots.

[vistavision2]

who proposes that war is to be outlawed, proposes to remove your individual right of self-defense to committ genocide upon your entire now defensless people.

States and peoples are not synonomous. Regimes like saddam's and Israel likud (zionists) should be removed by force of arms when not other recourse presents itself.

Sometimes it takes a regional war to settle direction of people: Latin American revolutions; WW II Europe; USSR meltdown; Africa, middle east, is still undecided.

[TheCZMan]

Huge effort but off target because the question was: what Europeans have to be protected from?

[vistavision2]

CZman, Europe has to be protected from their own past stupidiy!

This is how it is done. You initate a forum where differences ae minimized and commmonalities are strenghtened.

[TheCZMan]

I think I wont understand what you mean because you speak too much loosely.

Being protected from its own past stupidity: what does it mean?

[libervisco]

English please?

[libervisco]

Uh, my bad. Missed it in the description.