We all know religions are awful. Why bring God into this? Philosophically speaking it is fallacious argumentation (religions are fraud therefore god is fraud? A implies B, A is false, therefore B is false) isnt this a NON CAUSA PRO CAUSA fallacy? I adore Stef's work but I cannot see why on earth he equates God with religions or how the Socratean method which he advocates could possibly align itself with any assertions about the non-existence of god- Socrates knows he does NOT know.
I must say that i am a firm believer in god... not a religious god i do not in anyway adhear to any distinct religion however i have faith with that i i describe myself as an open minded free thinking self willed and well read on the subject from both sides of the argument i find it alittle mundayne silly and self seeking that this video describes the personal choice of faith as a trauma i feel that i will believe how i so see fit to believe and wish nothing but the best for all around me ty
'A mystic is a man who surrendered his mind at its first encounter with the minds of others. Somewhere in the distant reaches of his childhood, when his own understanding of reality clashed with the assertions of others, with their arbitrary orders and contradictory demands, he gave in to so craven a fear of independence that he renounced his rational faculty.'
And I have questioned my beliefs to an extent I'm sure many Christians would disown me I'm bi so I'm not your average Christian I guess. However, I have things to attend to hopefully we can debate again on other things I enjoy intelligent conversation.
At the end of the day the thing that drives you to be religious or "non-religious" is invariably a belief system in and of itself. It is your own bias being as you are your own individual you will never truly see the world objectively admitting that is the most objective thing you can do.
I take disagreement with Atheist at this point every time Atheist always point towards the evil of religion, what about the evil of mankind? Is religion not merely another tool at mankind's disposal the same as a business or a government? It comes back to the point that people harm people not the tools alone a gun does not pick itself up and shoot someone. Not to mention all the peaceful religions that are not God centered I have studied religion at some length including Atheism at some length.
@Danman3ish You wrote: "I have studied religion at some length including Atheism at some length."
I'm not sure if you're saying atheism is a religion, but that seems to be the case since you used the word "including." If that's what you meant, I'll set the record straight. Atheism is no more a religion than theism is. Both are simply positions on the existence/nonexistence of god(s).
You can't have studied atheism "at length" since it's simply the rejection of baseless claims about gods.
@YY4Me133 Religion is not necessarily the belief in a God as I said their are religion non-focused on God. I include atheism in religion because their are a large number of atheist that behave in manner fitting of a religion just like this video many atheist want other people to be atheist they gather and share common goals. Atheism is a philosophy based on the belief that their is no God which attracts followers. So when atheism quits behaving as a religion I will stop calling it one.
@Danman3ish Atheism is not a religion, just as theism is not a religion. PTA members gather together and share common goals, but the PTA isn't a religion. There's nothing to follow in atheism. There are no rules, no dogma, no authority figures who tell us what to believe, no atheist "bible," no rules to follow. Atheism, like theism, doesn't "act like a religion," but if you don't mind misusing language, go right ahead and call atheism a religion. Just be prepared to be called on it when you do.
@YY4Me133 Not true I've seen plenty of figure heads and leaders that atheists look to. I also recall seeing Atheist guide books and even a "Atheist Bible" in a barnes and nobles a couple days ago. Was that not written by an Atheist for an atheist or is that a guide book written for other Christian. Because if its written for Christians its not a catchy slogan not that Christians shouldn't read I'm just saying. A group of philosophers with a shared goal is generally considered a religion.
@Danman3ish There are famous atheists, but they aren't figureheads, leaders, or authority figures. They speak for and represent only themselves. They don't dictate what atheists must believe, or how atheists must behave. There's also a "Vitamin Bible," but that doesn't make taking vitamins a religion. Philosophers can be atheists, but not all atheists are philosophers, nor do we all gather or share goals. Atheism is one thing, and one thing only: rejection of theistic claims.
1.The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods
2. Details of belief as taught or discussed.
You seem to believe religion is 1 while I disagree and say its 2 I got my definition from google feel free to post counter arguments but if you want to get most objective use a dictionary don't just declare me wrong with out reason. As it turns out you and I are both correct according to google if you want to use Merriam webster feel free
@Danman3ish Is theism a religion? Of course not. It's the belief in a god or gods. Is atheism a religion. Of course not. It's the rejection of theistic claims. Not believing in gods is as much a religion as not believing in anal-probing extraterrestrials is a religion.
I didn't declare you wrong without reason. I didn't use #2 because it could pertain to almost anything. If definitions get so watered down that they lose all specificity they're useless. #1 is still the common definition.
@YY4Me133 As I can see I'm glad you explained your reason most people shut down or get angry before that point good reasoning skills. Good to finally get reasonable responses for once instead of name calling and BS like everything else on the internet.
@Danman3ish I'm not here to attack you. Whatever disagreements we might have, I don't want to hurt your feelings, or set your day off on the wrong foot. People can disagree without animosity. Although, I must admit that, even though I regret it later, I have, on occasion, been pushed to the point of being rude. That said, you and I have simply been exchanging ideas. Challenging ourselves and each other to defend our positions. It's good mental exercise. And, who knows, I might learn something.
@YY4Me133 No No I enjoyed all of it. It was fun and interesting I considered it a friendly spar of opposing ideas. I didn't take anything as a jab at me or my beliefs. Its all fun and interesting. As for the Atheist thing I doubt I'll become an Atheist its more a matter of choice for me I considered it. Just doesn't suit me as well its more fun to believe in a God for me.
@Danman3ish Well, at least you're honest with yourself about why you "believe" what you "believe." Most theists I've met are that honest only unintentionally. Many christians I've known gave emotional reasons for their "belief," such as wanting to believe "evil" wouldn't go "unpunished," or wanting to believe they'd see a dead relative again, etc., but later denied it. They couldn't be honest with themselves and maintain "belief," so they ignored anything that threatened it. It's been fun. :o)
@YY4Me133 If you have a different name to call those Atheist that behave like religious people I'm more than willing to accept that term but since I lack a better term I use the word Atheism.
@Danman3ish How about... advocate: "One that argues for a cause; a supporter or defender."
Atheists do *not* behave like religious people. Atheists encourage people to question everything. Religious people encourage faith, i.e. belief without evidence. Atheists say read everything you can, and apply critical thinking. Theists say believe. Atheist advocate freedom. Religious people want to limit freedom. Each side advocates for their view, but their goals are very different.
@YY4Me133 I advocate for freedom and I'm a Christian I encourage critical thinking and questioning faith is incredibly important otherwise your faith is blind and meaningless. You need to search for the truth and if the truth leads you to atheism great if not thats great to. I think to apply the blanket that all religious people want control is absurd though. I'm glad you've chosen Atheism at least you've questioned and come to a conclusion.
@Danman3ish Critical thinking and faith are polar opposites. The former requires putting all preconceived notions and prejudices aside, following evidence wherever it leads. The latter requires belief without evidence and/or despite evidence to the contrary. If you're a christian who honestly questions your beliefs, you're on the road to atheism. Otherwise, and I know you'll disagree with me on this, you're just pretending to question your beliefs. You're not pushing past your comfort zone.
And just why is it that you would want to "get rid of religion in peoples minds" anyway? If a Christian says he wants to "get rid of atheism in peoples minds", you would call it proselytizing. Is that what you intend to do now - proselytize for atheism?
Awesome series.... Thx! My comments evolutionated from video to video... I started watching the one you did on Procrastination and ended in theses series about god , the meaning of life etc... I went to a catholic school and many of the thoughts you expressed when trough my mind then, but of course I being dealing with rejection since. take care!
So basically your argument is that atheists exist because they are afraid of believing in something that has no proof? Genius.
What you're also saying is that you have some irrational connection to reality and know something we do not.
I guess that's a fancy way of saying faith. That's all nice, but "we" atheists don't call it "comprehending the infinite" we call it "making shit up with no proof".
I guess you're the courageous one. Since you don't need pesky proof. I don't envy your courage.
Secondly, peter molyneux talks a lot about religion being about fear. It seems to me that Peter Molyneux fears the unknown. Peter is a man who believes in rational thinking. I think the simple reason you don't believe in God is that you cannot rationalize God. But if an omnipotent God WERE real, using the rational thinking of a finite person cannot ever comprehend something infinite. Therefore, your argument is inherently flawed to assume that finite thinking can comprehend an infinite object.
Im sorry but stefan molyneux is more ignorant than he is aware of. EVERY SINGLE example he used of christian/catholic ideas are very superficial if not outright wrong. He uses the ideas of secular religion, not the ones that truly practice spirituality.
Wow this is very insightful. I was raised in a mormon faimily and broke free of it to a degree. The problem I have is that I have no friends or money and am stuck living with them and they suck the very life out of me. Their social pressure is still fucking terrible and they disgust me, as does most of society. I feel like i'm drowning and can't breath psychologically or emotionally and it makes me hate everything
@undeadpresident As long as U keep giving importance to what they think (which is totally natural because is family & U love them) U will feel trapped. it is a difficult stage for U & thats understandable, but please in a moment of silence think ONLY about how you could create better conditions for you, what you would like the future of your life to be and ask yourself what can you do NOW at this VERY moment to start achieving in order to make things more gratifying for a better future.
@undeadpresident As long as U keep giving importance to what they think (which is totally natural because is family & U love them) U will feel trapped. it is a difficult stage for U & thats understandable, but please in a moment of silence think ONLY about how you could create better conditions for you, what you would like the future of your life to be and ask yourself what can you do NOW at this VERY moment to start achieving in order to make things more gratifying for a better future.
Thank you! Brilliant thinking! I have always thought religion persists so well because the government wants and needs it to. The primary thing you take away from belief in God: 1) you may not think for yourself, someone else knows better than you 2) someone else writes the rules, it is your job to follow them 3) knowledge should be based on faith, not facts. It is so much easier for people who believe in God to accept a king (or a state), than people who believe in their own minds.
While I appreciate and respect the opinion of Mr. Molyneux. I feel I must mention that his generalization and prejudice for those who are religious is disappointing. Not all who follow a type of faith believe in the same aspects he is describing (6000 year old earth, etc...) and to believe that anyone who is religious fit into a collective of sorts seems to be contradictory to individualist philosophy. I do not condemn anyone for their beliefs be it religious or not.
pretty sure the people who decided = rights for women was right, slavery was wrong, and protection of children in america at least were all religious, not atheists. and btw, this might be a fucking shock to you, but religious people don't even read the bible, hence atheists know more about it. Most people my age think you don't need to know the bible or believe entirely whats in it but still believe in god, and that no matter your religion, it's believing generally in a higher power.
@Ether165 Our founding fathers preached tolerance and they were religious. Yet atheists attack religious people constantly and call us the intolerant ones... now thats a microcosm of an atheist society. You think if everyone was atheist then we'd have a perfect society? you might as well be a part of the KKK thinking if everyone was white we'd have a perfect society. This attitude doesn't belong in the world today, get over it.
There are natural laws such as gravity. In effect, gravity is a higher power than myself because I cannot undo it. I can hold a golf ball in my hand and let go of it 1,000 times and it will fall to the ground everytime. The original Aramaic texts (Y'shua's native language) were about how to create happiness and well being for the human being. Then, they were "translated" to fit the aims of the controlling minds you describe here. God isynonomous with Love and Law. Don't throw out the word.
I stumbled upon this video by accident and decided to watch it, not knowing anything about you, or what you had to say. Wow. What a refreshing video! You taught me some valuable lessons on the rationality of religion when debating with others. It seems I have been beating my head against the wall for nothing for all these years - after watching this video, I took a step back - and it was still there! I haven't converted anyone with logic or reason! Thank you for opening this atheists eyes! :)
Why is the pressure to conform to established family and societal values limited to theists? If the son of atheists (ex. WILLIAM O'HARE) had some sort of religious awakening, wouldn't he fear the disapproval of his parents? Wouldn't his atheism be inspired more by emotions than reason? "I'd better reject God or Dad will hate me as much as he hates Christians." And how did Christianity survive in the first place when an open belief in Christ's divinity was a quick ticket to the lions' den?
@SuperMassiveAtheist wrote "it went underground." Agreed. But your point does not make mine any less valid. If a person has his fellow Christians threatening to excommunicate him on one hand and he has Romans threatening to feed him to the lions or crucify him upside-down on the other, which would fill him with more fear? Which of the two would exert more social pressure on him to conform? It's unlikely that Christianity could have survived if God is nothing more than a fear of others.
@stuntbaby63 Well, in essence the belief in god is irrational, built on our own fears. Not necessarily the fear of others - the fear of all the bumps in the road life brings. The fear or death spawned all sorts of myths. People are afraid of the unknown - that's unjiversal - and it's been around for as long as we have been. Giving us a nice comfy place to go when we die helps reduce this fear into something that can be looked forward to. Personally, I think death is the one of the main reasons.
"atheists have been unable to convince people that atheiism is a valid viewpoint"
Well you must consider who they are trying to "convince". You cannot argue empirically with faith, because it is irrational by nature. I don't know why anyone would care what someone else feels about the "vailidity" of their beliefs, I sure don't. My beliefs exist of their own accord, not by acceptance or validation by anyone else.
there IS creation....and yeah, creation is a loaded term. Either this world is weird or it ain't. Which are you gonna choose? The notion of "God" or no "God" is fucking retarded. We are here, it's vast....it's nuts, we need to deal with this ourselves. I believe that his universe is either being run, or not run, by everything AND nothing. God concepts aside, this is really happening
Here's my argument please bear with me. I've noticed in my life that many human minds suffer from addiction (the usual suspects apply here). It's almost as if the mind is inherently unstable. What tool exists to lever an addicted (and usually dangerous) mind to extricate itself from the situation? This is a process that can't be bootstrapped. The only thing I've observed is the concept of God (higher power). It's an admission of finiteness. All told, God > good than harm.
@trashboger All told that would be negative. God < good than harm. This is an argument that has alot of merit. Historically, as far as the bible is concerned, there hasn't been a greater influence of destruction than god. And in real life too - how many nations have went to war with each other over a difference in religious opinion? How many have died? This isn't about faith in the belief in god, (whether he is real or not) it's about the idea that 'my god is better than your god'. God = War.
I want to make a very subjective statement. All of the atheists I have known have been some of the most depressing unhappy people I have known. Believing in God gives me hope, joy, and encourages me to be charitable to others. It helps me in the hard times of my life. If you want to try to find God..experiment with it. Try to pray sincerely and pay attention to how you feel.
@tauren2005 I want to make a very subjective statement. All of the asantaists I have known have been some of the most depressing unhappy people I have known. Believing in Santa gives me hope, joy, and encourages me to be charitable to others. It helps me in the hard times of my life. If you want to try to find Santa..experiment with it. Write a list sincerely and pay attention to how you feel.
Stef, do you come up with all of this by thinking about it, or is it from a specific outside source, or is it like a combination of many things you have read? It's probably different for different videos, but this one in particular. Also, you seem to draw very artful conclusions. How long, for your average video, does it take you to prepare your arguments?
One time my mother was at the dinner table, and she was praying before she was about to eat her food, and during her prayer I yelled, "Fuck God!" and she slapped the fuck outta me. So, I kept yelling, "Fuck God! Fuck God! Fuck God!" until she finally got tired of slapping me. I just laughed the entire time, but that's just a microcosm of the indignation provoked by religion, amplify her anger, and you have war.
This is a bit of a stretch here, Stef. In other time periods in history, I would completely agree with you (the periods of radical fundamentalism, Great Awakening, most of the 20th century).
But now, I don't see anyone being overwhelming criticized or harassed for not believing in God. In fact, it's often quite the opposite.
Hey Stef, new listener here. Really loving the vids/podcasts so far!
One thing I always make sure to throw in there if I'm having this sort of discussion with a religious person is the notion that, in addition to being the "fear of others" (not to mention "flat-out false-nonsense"), god is VERY much a fear of death.
I've found that line of questioning to be quite useful when dealing with friends who were not raised in religious households, but later "found religion."
i invite you to come for a paltalk debate in the room called answering christianity by the way it is a islamic room you be surised what you will find out.
I think you are far too damning of religion. If we can call parenting with religion a type of trauma, why can't we call parenting into a liberal society, which upholds autonomy and individualism (and maybe also greed?) a type of trauma.
Dude, you gotta come to terms with the fact that you are going to die. If you want to BELIEVE that it's going be a black, silent, infinite pit, you're allowed to, other people choose to believe other things.
@grantfaceclaw If it's all up for belief then why not make it as sweet as possible. Endless nights with Jessica Alba. Pizza half the week and Beer the next. I mean come on. We can imagine better than wings and a room in a mansion:)
That's not a fair representation of Dawkins, Stef. He's not vague or indecisive about his rejection of the supernatural. He describes himself as a Strong Atheist, and criticises Agnostics for assuming that God's existence is a 50:50 probability.
You describe, in a podcast, one of reasons why Atheism is in deadlock with Theism, only you refer to Philosophy: some people don't like the conclusions of Atheism and hence seek to confuse, obfuscate, and deliberately sabotage any clarity.
I disagree w/ you on religion being a trama on children at an early age. I grew up w/out ever stepping inside a church and had parents that never spoke of GOD or Yeshsua. I found GOD because I didn't like the athiest views....and Yehshua gave me hope that not all of mankind are jackasses. And when did YEHWEH promote rape? I have to tell you that I watched a few of your videos about anarchy and I liked what you had to say...but now I'm rethinking you because you mock GOD. Time will tell.
@AudioOpinions why would he need to ask for forgiveness in the first place, what will happen to him, its not like he would go to hell, because hell didnt exist when jesus was around, hell was added to christanity by the roman catholic church when they were intergreating viking and germanic peoples into the religion
Someone I know had a really bad drug problem. After he came round from his coma, he turned to Christianity and it has saved his life. Now I don't buy into the supernatural, I believe in the sun because I can see the sun. But that doesn't mean that everyone has to think the same as me. Would I convince this person not to pursue his faith, and then sit and watch while he destroys himself? No way. U are an idiot, sir - you love the sound of your own voice. Fuck you very much.
Thanks Stefan, this helps explain the experiences I've had in presenting evidence to religious people and yet getting no where in terms of advancing a rational discussion. For religious people it always comes back to some "knowledge" that is beyond the evidence. It makes me sad that so many people waste their lives not only serving a deity that is all in their mind, but also spend vast amounts of time trying to convince others to do so as well.
Reading this ludicrous comment makes me ashamed to share the same genetic code with the likes of truevoice08. Yes, God is a loaded word, but here it is the Christian Yaweh. I'm sorry to burst the bubble, but whether or not there was nothing before the big bang remains to be discovered. If there was matter, then it wasn't from nothing was it? Furthermore, science has yet to really understand what matter is, so stay tuned and withhold the emotional reactions please fool.
All your arguments are not against religion but against FUNDAMENTALIST religion. God is such a loaded word. But faith is the belief that, contrary to what Objectivist's claim, there is an ultimate 'nonzero' so to speak that started everything. It's logical because everything cannot come from nothing. Any good theologian can refute all atheist's claims.
but that has nothing to do with religion.... That reasoning does not at all justify being a christian or muslim or whatnot.... That just makes 'agnostic', or spiritually 'unsure',, X)
Sorry 'truevoice' I agree with the first sentence regarding organized religion, but in the words of the great Alan Watts, "you can't have something without nothing." What is wrong with nothing?
@truevoice08 Evidence suggests that all causes have causes - but that doesn't imply an initial cause. Saying that there must be an initial cause is exactly like saying there must be a highest integer. Thus you're asking us to accept that there was a first event AS WELL as accepting that all causes have causes. This basically means that you're proving your claim (there was a creator) with the same claim!
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he does do an excellent job of that. I love how he says it's so ridicules that an all power full god created the earth. and that it's so much more possible that the earth made it's self.
I'm dumb because i believe in the beginning God. And your smart because you believe In the beginning Dirt.
Wow, after reading some of the negative comments on this first page by elliot91murphy and others, I pity whatever professor has to read papers written by these fools (assuming they get to college).
He's NOT trying to disprove god in this video, he's explaining why he feels atheists can't use reason in arguing against the religious.
Can you TRY to listen to and UNDERSTAND what he says? It isn't THAT hard to follow his words.
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if you came to my church, and weren't a christian, you wouldn't be kicked to the curb. my parents didn't use their authority to brainwash me. its a free choice
It's clear that he isn't trying to disprove the existence of God in this particular video. He is only saying that theists cannot be convinced otherwise, because of a traumatised childhood. Why don't you check out some of the other podcasts in particular 13: Proof, Disproof and Deities, that one was very helpful for me.
Until a Deity can be defined to the level of being logically and rationally comprehended according to fact that conforms with objective reality then I can only conclude with absolute certainty there is no such thing that exists.The same holds true for anything the mind can invent with impossible characteristics.Like square circles or a 50 sided hexagon.
Imagine that eh? I just made up a 50 sided hex. Do you believe such a thing exists? Or do you have to claim ignorant agnosticism?
Well you are focusing on the Christian (or other religion's) conception of a deity, which as I've indicated... take the near absolute improbability of 'A" deity and multiply that by another near absolute improbability to the power of near absolute improbability. In any case, no you cannot violate the basic definitions of mathematical constructs, though a deity could, theoretically, violate the known laws of the universe. Hey, we COULD be a highly advanced computer simulation! How would you know?
LOL. Well the point I'm making is that we can only make statements and know things within varying degrees of certainty within the confines of our own understanding of reality and the universe. While often high, it can be trumped. I've often contemplated what would be convincing evidence of a God. I used to say, well perhaps the 10 commandments in mile wide letters on the face of Mars (but aliens could do that). So it would have to violate our known physical laws. Like a planet sized solid cube!
I hear ya putna ! The thing is. In all the thousands of years of Gods. The closest man has come to discovering God is inventing more Gods. There is no God out there anywhere. And it's so obvious too. I think it's time for people to stop believing in the Santa Claus in the sky by now. Adults need to grow up and outgrow their childish and idiotic God beliefs and get on with reality.
Well that is why I am, and everyone should be, an atheist, because we have absolutely no evidence what-so-ever of any deity (least of all a deity that interacts with our world and has personal relationships with its inhabitants). I have a lack of belief in a God, I don't claim absolute certainty there is no God (because that would take being all knowing), but as we have NO evidence, we should proceed through life and human progress under the rational realistic assumption that God does not exist
True. However, like I said before, we have enough intelligence to know there is no such thing as a God out there anywhere simply because it is an idea that cannot even be defined with any amount of consistency that can be rationally and logically comprehensible by any individual who has the capability of thinking. I never liked the "lack of belief" description of atheism in the first place. It appeals to ignorance and agnosticism to much. Kind of similar to "weak atheism".
We have enough intelligence to make reasonable conclusions as to what we know in our every day experiences and observations in the world and universe. We have the capacity to speculate as to what is or is not possible based on our understanding of the universe. However, we cannot claim to have absolute perfect knowledge of reality and our universe, so there IS room for things we simply don't know or comprehend. How can you KNOW there is no god (not a specific conception of one, but any).
Go back to 2 days ago in my comments I explained it. You just don't seem to be able to grasp what I said. I know there is no God like I know there are no spirits that haunt people in grave yards late at night. Gods are all things invented from the superstitious human mind out of ignorance and fear. Use your mind a little & you too can shed your weak/lack of belief atheist/agnostic position & be a strong/positive atheist.
He is absolutely correct. Atheists suck! They suck at being true atheists. Positive atheists. We have the new modern atheists saying they are agnostic and atheist at the same time. They say they don't believe in God but still express ignorance and uncertainty whether god exists or not. Step up to the plate atheists & give up all the fear of proclaiming there is no God period.
But it's impossible to make such an absolute claim. The best we can do is say that there is absolutely NO known evidence of God, nor reasonable, rational basis to believe that there is a God or Gods, particularly the types of Gods that are portrayed by the various religions of the world. But regardless, it's irrational to worship and fear something which provides no evidence of its existence, let alone interest in us.
"But it's impossible to make such an absolute claim." Little do you realize it but this is an absolute statement.
Would you say that existence is an absolute? Gravity and the air we breathe is an absolute?
Gods only exist in peoples minds.
Would you say that it is impossible to assert there are no ghosts, devils, spirits or Santa Claus? To assert positively there is no such thing as God might appear to dogmatic & create fear of other atheists for making such an assertion.
Yes nogogma, it IS impossible (or essentially next to impossible) to says ghosts, devils, spirits or Santa Claus do not exist, not to mention Big foot, the Loch ness monster, leprechauns, and the flying pink elephant IN YOUR ROOM, as we don't have a 100% complete picture of reality. We can only say with NEAR complete certainty these things don't exist, not 100% certainty though. We should operate under the rational likelihood that they don't exist until evidence presents itself to be explored.
Gnostics like you often times have very dogmatic tendencies because you claim absolute certainty for things that are not currently testable or observable. 99% certainty is MORE than enough to make reasonable and rational decisions on how to proceed on things. Claims of 100% certainty against the unseen are almost as bad as claims of 100% certainty for the unseen.
Well I said 'almost' as bad, but only in the respect that one is being closed minded to the possibility (no matter how infinitesimally slim that possibility may be) that there is more to what we know than what we can perceive. Again, it would be foolish to take actions or conduct one's life on the basis of an infinitesimally small possibility, particularly one that there is no evidence for, however that doesn't mean the possibility of the unknown existing (whatever it is) is absolute zero.
I'm not closed minded to the possibility of something but what I'm referring to is something with impossible characteristics, i.e., the entities I described, ghosts, spirits or anything to impossible that cannot exist anywhere outside the mind. Just how would you define a God or the supernatural? I mean, c'mon, do you really think there is a Santa with magical powers living in the North Pole? If you do then you are claiming ignorance.
What I'm saying is that the probability of Santa (for instance) being real is infinitesimally small, well into the realm of our being able to make the assertive claim that for all practical purposes in our known and understood reality that Santa does not exist. We simply leave off the preamble to that and say "Santa does not exist", even though we can NOT technically claim with 100% complete absolute certainty that he does not. It's a subtle but distinct point.
In the end, you are a "believer". You, as a positive atheist believe, even though you do not have absolute knowledge of the whole of the universe and reality, that God does not exist. That being true is significantly more probable than those who believe a God does exist. Me, I have an EXTREMELY HIGH degree of certainty, from all that is known, understood, and observed, that Gods do not exist, but I don't claim ABSOLUTE certainty. Of course, I know you can't give most theists any wiggle room.
I also have an extremely high degree of certainty that self contradictory/impossible entities are nonexistent and no I am not a believer. I am a nonbeliever. I make it a point not to just believe in things. If I find myself believing in something it's usually temporary especially when I learn of its self refuting characteristics. I think you need to listen to stef's videos a little more. I don't think anything of what he has said so far is sinking into your head.
But you are a believer. You believe everything that you (and humanity) now knows about the universe and our perceived reality, absolutely precludes things beyond our comprehension, knowledge, or understanding. Indeed from what we currently know and understand and have evidence of, the odds of A higher power (or God) is exceedingly remote, and man's religious definitions of one, far MORE remote than that even, but we will never achieve 100% perfect knowledge of such things, just near perfect.
The only sort of God that I can see having any real use would be the belief in a God, or Gods of nature. At least a belief in that sort of God might promote the respect and love of all things natural and we might all start to treat our world with a little more tenderness.
Perhaps that's called Wiccan or Paganism... I don't know.
Mother Nature would qualify as a God of nature but if you tried to worship Her, She'd kick you in the ass and tell you there is much work to be done, make our world a good and safe place to bring our offspring.
The human species spends their resources trying to get laid, that comes before making peace. Humans are idiots.
Yeah, and human nature is a result of evolution through "mother" nature. We behave this way because we have been sculpted to behave this way. Besides, nobody would have to spend resources "making peace" if so many didn't spend their resources making war.
Anyone who interprets any religious book literally is daft. Then again, anyone who argues with one who interprets any religious book literally is equally as daft.
The story of Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden is a poetic retelling of how mankind lost its innocence through consciousness. The names Adam and Eve are irrelavant. We, as humans, became self-aware, and thus felt the need to wear clothing aside from its environmental necessity.
I am a deist who believes in determinism. My rationalization for this is that there can be no "free will."
We have the ability to choose, but we do not have the ability to choose the means with which we choose. Nor do we have the ability to decide the means with which we interpret.
Therefore, we are the sum of our biology and the influences that it endures. This means that everything, from the beginning, could be no other way. I just "choose" to credit a creator, the "Gift Giver" if you like.
I find that though atheists consider humans, being animals themselves, to have evolved from more primitive animals, as do I, they ironically seem to take the theist mentality that we as humans, with our conciousness, are not subject to these same animalistic tendencies.
The idea of evolution as well as the definition of an animal, or life for that matter, mean nothing outside of human understanding, and thus cannot in any way contradict the idea of a deity.
What I mean to say is that you choose to be an atheist. However, you are an atheist because of your biological makeup and the environment in which you reside. If you had been born with a slightly different genetic makeup or environment, you might be have been a theist.
You do not choose who you are. "You are," and then you choose.
Thus, some choose belief and others choose its negation, but to argue over such a matter is childish because no one really had a "choice" in the matter.
When we act in the face of alternatives, we are acting off of the knowledge we acquired. If you say, knowledge doesn't matter, then you will undoubtably drift along in a daze being motivated by nothing since you have no will to use your mind. You're right, "You are" and then you choose -- how you choose is by the use of your mind. You can "choose" to use it or not. How you define your human nature is determined by your mind, the base of all your definitions. Reject the mind and reject yourself.
I do not believe that obtaining the concept of a determined world voids all future intellectual development. My knowledge of the, as I perceive it, deterministic world does not inhibit my ability to comprehend the importance of knowledge just as your awareness of the fact that you're a conscious being doesn't impede on your conscious decisions. Yes, my concept of human nature is decided by my mind, yet my mind develops based on my biology's interpretation of reality, of which I have no control.
What troubles me about determinism, is that it seems to diminish the variations of causality. That we possess consciousness, but inanimate matter doesn't. That if the world is indeed set and determined, then we are apart of that model, and so is our mind, which is our own causality. I would argue that determinists, tend to ignore their own rules. That reality is an end in itself--and only the evasion OF IT would force one to feel mentally helpless in the face of the effects it presented.
I only have an issue with this video so far as it works on the assumption that a creator deity is omnipotent and completely unknowable. I think this is more of a stab not so much at religion, but at fundamentalism and orthodoxy.
Fluffyduck is right, this is a very refreshingly thought out argument for a position that is too often dismissed.
This was a very interesting video. It does seem that fear is a great motivation for belief in deities. I am wrestling with admitting my disbelief because of my deeply spiritual family.
Yeah, I think God agrees with you about religion. After all, 99& of religions are human opinons and have nothing to do with God anyway. When someone can take a bucket of dirt and make a living soul I'll applaud them. When someone can take absolutely nothing, then make the bucket of dirt and then make a living soul, then I'll believe in evolution. Until then... dream on, you just don't want to be accountable for what you do in life, whether you realise that or not.
No, not that sort of accountable. Breaking laws will make you accountable to courts of law, but what about the everyday sins that we all commit; some things that we think only we know about. People like to fool themselves into thinking that because no one finds out about a lie, or some other sin that they've got away with it... that's the kind of accountability, that and the fact that we're accountable for being arrogant enough to think there is no God; that there is nothing better than us.
I don't think he is being arrogant, he just has a lack of faith that all religious people must have. When you start to question religion, it falls apart. So you have to have some faith in it, or you just can't believe. That in comparison to the laws of gravity. You can have no faith in it at all, but when you jump in your living room, your going to fall back down. It's just that since you can not objectively prove there is religion, he is using that to disprove it.
But, if you prove religion, then that defeats the purpose of that religion, and if there was objective proof of religion, then there would be only one religion.
There is only one 'religion'. Jesus stated that quite clearly in the Bible; unless, of course, belief in Jesus is also suspended. I don't think he's being deliberatly arrogant and he seems a genuine person, although a bit scary. At the end of the day, for me, the Bible has the answers, it's just whether we're humble enough to follow them or think we can do better going it alone. 6,000 odd years I think has proven we can't go it alone. Africa is one case of 'man dominating man to his injury'
I agree with you about faith; but I don't think religion has anything to do with God. People think it does, but when, like you say, when you examine it, religion and the Bible are not even on the same planet let alone the same page and that's why it falls apart. I do believe in the Bible, but I don't believe in organised religion. For me, chance doesn't even come into it, it's illogical to think that we arrived here by chance but it does give people a way of shoving God out of the picture.
so illusion means understanding/knowing and it helps organism to act.being sure of something gives you permission to move.Its a map.And everybody are creating illusions from beginning to the end.Discipline is the key to be a natural being.Its very hard and drives people crazy because of the system they are born in.Complicated thing is that its actually so much easier to just "close the eyes" and live by the "rules" even if its drives people to evolve to some kind of fat ants or something.."sad"
i think the bible is a very good book writen by very "smart"or very "stupid/uncertain" people.Thats why its very misunderstood. There was a guy (Jesus) telling about belief systems and connection with so called unconsious mind. If he existed nowdays he would be categorized as a philosopher or hypnotist or maybe psychiatrist.But im my opinion its just about being openminded,sharp and having a real respect to nature. Everybody has a connection to subconsciousness but have no time to understand it.
Now, Stefan. How do you measure truth, except by the comparison of the truth possessed by one thing to pure truth? Can you prove pure truth exists? Does truth have measurable effects in and of itself, or only in relation to other, lesser truths?
Stefan says that religion is merely a trauma inflicted on the young. He does not explain how so many physically and emotionally mature adults, raised as atheists begin to believe in the existence of God.
Stefan says that the God of the Old Testament approved of rape, slavery and murder. He does not say where.
Stefan says that belief in God is sustained by fear. No, Stefan. Belief in God is sustained by love. Atheism is sustained by fear of the ramifications of believing: big life changes.
Again, God is not complex. He is utterly simple. Everything that has existence does so in relation to him. Everything that has beauty derives its beauty from and bears its beauty in relation to the essence of pure, objective beauty. Everything that has goodness derives this goodness from the essence of pure, objective goodness. Is there such a thing as perfect happiness? No? Then why is it in our nature to long for something that does not exist?
"Maybe you should get some evidence that a god exists before you try and describe its properties."
Jacolyte, really? Is it unscientific to proceed from the nature of the perceived effects to the source of the perceived effects? Detectives do it all the time.
Now, you say that God has no perceived effects. Billions of people on earth who have changed their lives due to the notion of God are an effect of something, you will admit.
We all know religions are awful. Why bring God into this? Philosophically speaking it is fallacious argumentation (religions are fraud therefore god is fraud? A implies B, A is false, therefore B is false) isnt this a NON CAUSA PRO CAUSA fallacy? I adore Stef's work but I cannot see why on earth he equates God with religions or how the Socratean method which he advocates could possibly align itself with any assertions about the non-existence of god- Socrates knows he does NOT know.
aliaandreadi 4 weeks ago
If you believe in otherness you are a atheist.
goldsmithstudent 1 month ago
I must say that i am a firm believer in god... not a religious god i do not in anyway adhear to any distinct religion however i have faith with that i i describe myself as an open minded free thinking self willed and well read on the subject from both sides of the argument i find it alittle mundayne silly and self seeking that this video describes the personal choice of faith as a trauma i feel that i will believe how i so see fit to believe and wish nothing but the best for all around me ty
MrALEXisBORING 1 month ago
'A mystic is a man who surrendered his mind at its first encounter with the minds of others. Somewhere in the distant reaches of his childhood, when his own understanding of reality clashed with the assertions of others, with their arbitrary orders and contradictory demands, he gave in to so craven a fear of independence that he renounced his rational faculty.'
- Ayn Rand
StudentOfObjectivism 2 months ago
2+2=5 is actually true..
DamnEmoKids 2 months ago
And I have questioned my beliefs to an extent I'm sure many Christians would disown me I'm bi so I'm not your average Christian I guess. However, I have things to attend to hopefully we can debate again on other things I enjoy intelligent conversation.
Danman3ish 3 months ago
Comment removed
Danman3ish 3 months ago
deism does not fit his categorical that belief in god neccessarily equates to ignorance and hatred
vtran31 3 months ago
At the end of the day the thing that drives you to be religious or "non-religious" is invariably a belief system in and of itself. It is your own bias being as you are your own individual you will never truly see the world objectively admitting that is the most objective thing you can do.
Danman3ish 3 months ago
I take disagreement with Atheist at this point every time Atheist always point towards the evil of religion, what about the evil of mankind? Is religion not merely another tool at mankind's disposal the same as a business or a government? It comes back to the point that people harm people not the tools alone a gun does not pick itself up and shoot someone. Not to mention all the peaceful religions that are not God centered I have studied religion at some length including Atheism at some length.
Danman3ish 3 months ago
@Danman3ish You wrote: "I have studied religion at some length including Atheism at some length."
I'm not sure if you're saying atheism is a religion, but that seems to be the case since you used the word "including." If that's what you meant, I'll set the record straight. Atheism is no more a religion than theism is. Both are simply positions on the existence/nonexistence of god(s).
You can't have studied atheism "at length" since it's simply the rejection of baseless claims about gods.
YY4Me133 3 months ago
@YY4Me133 Religion is not necessarily the belief in a God as I said their are religion non-focused on God. I include atheism in religion because their are a large number of atheist that behave in manner fitting of a religion just like this video many atheist want other people to be atheist they gather and share common goals. Atheism is a philosophy based on the belief that their is no God which attracts followers. So when atheism quits behaving as a religion I will stop calling it one.
Danman3ish 3 months ago
@Danman3ish Atheism is not a religion, just as theism is not a religion. PTA members gather together and share common goals, but the PTA isn't a religion. There's nothing to follow in atheism. There are no rules, no dogma, no authority figures who tell us what to believe, no atheist "bible," no rules to follow. Atheism, like theism, doesn't "act like a religion," but if you don't mind misusing language, go right ahead and call atheism a religion. Just be prepared to be called on it when you do.
YY4Me133 3 months ago
@YY4Me133 Not true I've seen plenty of figure heads and leaders that atheists look to. I also recall seeing Atheist guide books and even a "Atheist Bible" in a barnes and nobles a couple days ago. Was that not written by an Atheist for an atheist or is that a guide book written for other Christian. Because if its written for Christians its not a catchy slogan not that Christians shouldn't read I'm just saying. A group of philosophers with a shared goal is generally considered a religion.
Danman3ish 3 months ago
@Danman3ish There are famous atheists, but they aren't figureheads, leaders, or authority figures. They speak for and represent only themselves. They don't dictate what atheists must believe, or how atheists must behave. There's also a "Vitamin Bible," but that doesn't make taking vitamins a religion. Philosophers can be atheists, but not all atheists are philosophers, nor do we all gather or share goals. Atheism is one thing, and one thing only: rejection of theistic claims.
YY4Me133 3 months ago
@YY4Me133 It appears I must submit defeat there well done my hat is off to you.
Danman3ish 3 months ago
@Danman3ish Only if you mean it. I enjoy a good debate. It keeps the old gray matter active. :o)
YY4Me133 3 months ago
@YY4Me133 Religion:
1.The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods
2. Details of belief as taught or discussed.
You seem to believe religion is 1 while I disagree and say its 2 I got my definition from google feel free to post counter arguments but if you want to get most objective use a dictionary don't just declare me wrong with out reason. As it turns out you and I are both correct according to google if you want to use Merriam webster feel free
Danman3ish 3 months ago
@Danman3ish Is theism a religion? Of course not. It's the belief in a god or gods. Is atheism a religion. Of course not. It's the rejection of theistic claims. Not believing in gods is as much a religion as not believing in anal-probing extraterrestrials is a religion.
I didn't declare you wrong without reason. I didn't use #2 because it could pertain to almost anything. If definitions get so watered down that they lose all specificity they're useless. #1 is still the common definition.
YY4Me133 3 months ago
@YY4Me133 As I can see I'm glad you explained your reason most people shut down or get angry before that point good reasoning skills. Good to finally get reasonable responses for once instead of name calling and BS like everything else on the internet.
Danman3ish 3 months ago
@Danman3ish I'm not here to attack you. Whatever disagreements we might have, I don't want to hurt your feelings, or set your day off on the wrong foot. People can disagree without animosity. Although, I must admit that, even though I regret it later, I have, on occasion, been pushed to the point of being rude. That said, you and I have simply been exchanging ideas. Challenging ourselves and each other to defend our positions. It's good mental exercise. And, who knows, I might learn something.
YY4Me133 3 months ago
@YY4Me133 No No I enjoyed all of it. It was fun and interesting I considered it a friendly spar of opposing ideas. I didn't take anything as a jab at me or my beliefs. Its all fun and interesting. As for the Atheist thing I doubt I'll become an Atheist its more a matter of choice for me I considered it. Just doesn't suit me as well its more fun to believe in a God for me.
Danman3ish 3 months ago
@Danman3ish Well, at least you're honest with yourself about why you "believe" what you "believe." Most theists I've met are that honest only unintentionally. Many christians I've known gave emotional reasons for their "belief," such as wanting to believe "evil" wouldn't go "unpunished," or wanting to believe they'd see a dead relative again, etc., but later denied it. They couldn't be honest with themselves and maintain "belief," so they ignored anything that threatened it. It's been fun. :o)
YY4Me133 3 months ago
@YY4Me133 If you have a different name to call those Atheist that behave like religious people I'm more than willing to accept that term but since I lack a better term I use the word Atheism.
Danman3ish 3 months ago
@Danman3ish How about... advocate: "One that argues for a cause; a supporter or defender."
Atheists do *not* behave like religious people. Atheists encourage people to question everything. Religious people encourage faith, i.e. belief without evidence. Atheists say read everything you can, and apply critical thinking. Theists say believe. Atheist advocate freedom. Religious people want to limit freedom. Each side advocates for their view, but their goals are very different.
YY4Me133 3 months ago
@YY4Me133 I advocate for freedom and I'm a Christian I encourage critical thinking and questioning faith is incredibly important otherwise your faith is blind and meaningless. You need to search for the truth and if the truth leads you to atheism great if not thats great to. I think to apply the blanket that all religious people want control is absurd though. I'm glad you've chosen Atheism at least you've questioned and come to a conclusion.
Danman3ish 3 months ago
@Danman3ish Critical thinking and faith are polar opposites. The former requires putting all preconceived notions and prejudices aside, following evidence wherever it leads. The latter requires belief without evidence and/or despite evidence to the contrary. If you're a christian who honestly questions your beliefs, you're on the road to atheism. Otherwise, and I know you'll disagree with me on this, you're just pretending to question your beliefs. You're not pushing past your comfort zone.
YY4Me133 3 months ago
And just why is it that you would want to "get rid of religion in peoples minds" anyway? If a Christian says he wants to "get rid of atheism in peoples minds", you would call it proselytizing. Is that what you intend to do now - proselytize for atheism?
4GodSoLoves 4 months ago
Awesome series.... Thx! My comments evolutionated from video to video... I started watching the one you did on Procrastination and ended in theses series about god , the meaning of life etc... I went to a catholic school and many of the thoughts you expressed when trough my mind then, but of course I being dealing with rejection since. take care!
chelilandia 4 months ago
Categorization and Identification!
ThusIsBrad 5 months ago
So basically your argument is that atheists exist because they are afraid of believing in something that has no proof? Genius.
What you're also saying is that you have some irrational connection to reality and know something we do not.
I guess that's a fancy way of saying faith. That's all nice, but "we" atheists don't call it "comprehending the infinite" we call it "making shit up with no proof".
I guess you're the courageous one. Since you don't need pesky proof. I don't envy your courage.
badblueman 5 months ago
Secondly, peter molyneux talks a lot about religion being about fear. It seems to me that Peter Molyneux fears the unknown. Peter is a man who believes in rational thinking. I think the simple reason you don't believe in God is that you cannot rationalize God. But if an omnipotent God WERE real, using the rational thinking of a finite person cannot ever comprehend something infinite. Therefore, your argument is inherently flawed to assume that finite thinking can comprehend an infinite object.
runescape147 5 months ago
Im sorry but stefan molyneux is more ignorant than he is aware of. EVERY SINGLE example he used of christian/catholic ideas are very superficial if not outright wrong. He uses the ideas of secular religion, not the ones that truly practice spirituality.
runescape147 5 months ago
Wow this is very insightful. I was raised in a mormon faimily and broke free of it to a degree. The problem I have is that I have no friends or money and am stuck living with them and they suck the very life out of me. Their social pressure is still fucking terrible and they disgust me, as does most of society. I feel like i'm drowning and can't breath psychologically or emotionally and it makes me hate everything
undeadpresident 5 months ago
@undeadpresident As long as U keep giving importance to what they think (which is totally natural because is family & U love them) U will feel trapped. it is a difficult stage for U & thats understandable, but please in a moment of silence think ONLY about how you could create better conditions for you, what you would like the future of your life to be and ask yourself what can you do NOW at this VERY moment to start achieving in order to make things more gratifying for a better future.
chelilandia 4 months ago
@undeadpresident As long as U keep giving importance to what they think (which is totally natural because is family & U love them) U will feel trapped. it is a difficult stage for U & thats understandable, but please in a moment of silence think ONLY about how you could create better conditions for you, what you would like the future of your life to be and ask yourself what can you do NOW at this VERY moment to start achieving in order to make things more gratifying for a better future.
chelilandia 4 months ago
Thank you! Brilliant thinking! I have always thought religion persists so well because the government wants and needs it to. The primary thing you take away from belief in God: 1) you may not think for yourself, someone else knows better than you 2) someone else writes the rules, it is your job to follow them 3) knowledge should be based on faith, not facts. It is so much easier for people who believe in God to accept a king (or a state), than people who believe in their own minds.
nosillynickname 6 months ago
is this the brother of pat condell?
Ionisus 6 months ago
@Ionisus I'd say Stef is far more effective at this than Pat.
stratelite 6 months ago
While I appreciate and respect the opinion of Mr. Molyneux. I feel I must mention that his generalization and prejudice for those who are religious is disappointing. Not all who follow a type of faith believe in the same aspects he is describing (6000 year old earth, etc...) and to believe that anyone who is religious fit into a collective of sorts seems to be contradictory to individualist philosophy. I do not condemn anyone for their beliefs be it religious or not.
NonAggressionist 7 months ago 3
pretty sure the people who decided = rights for women was right, slavery was wrong, and protection of children in america at least were all religious, not atheists. and btw, this might be a fucking shock to you, but religious people don't even read the bible, hence atheists know more about it. Most people my age think you don't need to know the bible or believe entirely whats in it but still believe in god, and that no matter your religion, it's believing generally in a higher power.
Ether165 7 months ago
@Ether165 Our founding fathers preached tolerance and they were religious. Yet atheists attack religious people constantly and call us the intolerant ones... now thats a microcosm of an atheist society. You think if everyone was atheist then we'd have a perfect society? you might as well be a part of the KKK thinking if everyone was white we'd have a perfect society. This attitude doesn't belong in the world today, get over it.
Ether165 7 months ago
Far too many assumptions made here for this to be a sound theory
Demuwan 8 months ago
There are natural laws such as gravity. In effect, gravity is a higher power than myself because I cannot undo it. I can hold a golf ball in my hand and let go of it 1,000 times and it will fall to the ground everytime. The original Aramaic texts (Y'shua's native language) were about how to create happiness and well being for the human being. Then, they were "translated" to fit the aims of the controlling minds you describe here. God isynonomous with Love and Law. Don't throw out the word.
ronaldbjr41 10 months ago
I stumbled upon this video by accident and decided to watch it, not knowing anything about you, or what you had to say. Wow. What a refreshing video! You taught me some valuable lessons on the rationality of religion when debating with others. It seems I have been beating my head against the wall for nothing for all these years - after watching this video, I took a step back - and it was still there! I haven't converted anyone with logic or reason! Thank you for opening this atheists eyes! :)
SuperMassiveAtheist 10 months ago
Why is the pressure to conform to established family and societal values limited to theists? If the son of atheists (ex. WILLIAM O'HARE) had some sort of religious awakening, wouldn't he fear the disapproval of his parents? Wouldn't his atheism be inspired more by emotions than reason? "I'd better reject God or Dad will hate me as much as he hates Christians." And how did Christianity survive in the first place when an open belief in Christ's divinity was a quick ticket to the lions' den?
stuntbaby63 10 months ago
@stuntbaby63 it went underground. That's how it survived. When it finally came up for air, it had built a huge following.
SuperMassiveAtheist 10 months ago
@SuperMassiveAtheist wrote "it went underground." Agreed. But your point does not make mine any less valid. If a person has his fellow Christians threatening to excommunicate him on one hand and he has Romans threatening to feed him to the lions or crucify him upside-down on the other, which would fill him with more fear? Which of the two would exert more social pressure on him to conform? It's unlikely that Christianity could have survived if God is nothing more than a fear of others.
stuntbaby63 10 months ago
@stuntbaby63 Well, in essence the belief in god is irrational, built on our own fears. Not necessarily the fear of others - the fear of all the bumps in the road life brings. The fear or death spawned all sorts of myths. People are afraid of the unknown - that's unjiversal - and it's been around for as long as we have been. Giving us a nice comfy place to go when we die helps reduce this fear into something that can be looked forward to. Personally, I think death is the one of the main reasons.
SuperMassiveAtheist 10 months ago
"atheists have been unable to convince people that atheiism is a valid viewpoint"
Well you must consider who they are trying to "convince". You cannot argue empirically with faith, because it is irrational by nature. I don't know why anyone would care what someone else feels about the "vailidity" of their beliefs, I sure don't. My beliefs exist of their own accord, not by acceptance or validation by anyone else.
pretorious700 11 months ago
But Stef what have you got against the Keebler elves? They make delicious delicious cookies....
alistairproductions 11 months ago
SKrY209.tk CHECKIT!!
deadindisguise 11 months ago
there IS creation....and yeah, creation is a loaded term. Either this world is weird or it ain't. Which are you gonna choose? The notion of "God" or no "God" is fucking retarded. We are here, it's vast....it's nuts, we need to deal with this ourselves. I believe that his universe is either being run, or not run, by everything AND nothing. God concepts aside, this is really happening
benjamingord 11 months ago
Hi Stefbot
Here's my argument please bear with me. I've noticed in my life that many human minds suffer from addiction (the usual suspects apply here). It's almost as if the mind is inherently unstable. What tool exists to lever an addicted (and usually dangerous) mind to extricate itself from the situation? This is a process that can't be bootstrapped. The only thing I've observed is the concept of God (higher power). It's an admission of finiteness. All told, God > good than harm.
trashboger 1 year ago
@trashboger All told that would be negative. God < good than harm. This is an argument that has alot of merit. Historically, as far as the bible is concerned, there hasn't been a greater influence of destruction than god. And in real life too - how many nations have went to war with each other over a difference in religious opinion? How many have died? This isn't about faith in the belief in god, (whether he is real or not) it's about the idea that 'my god is better than your god'. God = War.
SuperMassiveAtheist 10 months ago
I want to make a very subjective statement. All of the atheists I have known have been some of the most depressing unhappy people I have known. Believing in God gives me hope, joy, and encourages me to be charitable to others. It helps me in the hard times of my life. If you want to try to find God..experiment with it. Try to pray sincerely and pay attention to how you feel.
tauren2005 1 year ago
@tauren2005 I want to make a very subjective statement. All of the asantaists I have known have been some of the most depressing unhappy people I have known. Believing in Santa gives me hope, joy, and encourages me to be charitable to others. It helps me in the hard times of my life. If you want to try to find Santa..experiment with it. Write a list sincerely and pay attention to how you feel.
f0b0m 1 year ago
@tauren2005 I want to make a very sujective statement...... Your belief in god is not knowledge therefore you live in denial. simple as that.
233yvan 11 months ago
god is nothing, its a fucking hoax. The longest running hoax since the evolution of mankind.
halflifeproductionz 1 year ago
16 christians watched this video
graphx311 1 year ago
Stef, do you come up with all of this by thinking about it, or is it from a specific outside source, or is it like a combination of many things you have read? It's probably different for different videos, but this one in particular. Also, you seem to draw very artful conclusions. How long, for your average video, does it take you to prepare your arguments?
jonfedele 1 year ago
One time my mother was at the dinner table, and she was praying before she was about to eat her food, and during her prayer I yelled, "Fuck God!" and she slapped the fuck outta me. So, I kept yelling, "Fuck God! Fuck God! Fuck God!" until she finally got tired of slapping me. I just laughed the entire time, but that's just a microcosm of the indignation provoked by religion, amplify her anger, and you have war.
Hanahleia 1 year ago 17
@Hanahleia no thats called you being an ass and disrespectful, and getting slapped for it.
Ether165 7 months ago
Comment removed
Hanahleia 7 months ago
@Ether165 No, it was an experiment. I did it to see how she'd react. You're obviously religious and filled with the same indignation.
Hanahleia 7 months ago
@Hanahleia Are you being sarcastic?
Dodec84 1 month ago
@Dodec84 No, I'm quite sincere.
Hanahleia 1 month ago
@Hanahleia lmao!!!! That is the funniest story I have ever heard XDDD More power to you!
Fosellar 2 weeks ago
Did he say ungodly?
ilikebigbots 1 year ago
This is a bit of a stretch here, Stef. In other time periods in history, I would completely agree with you (the periods of radical fundamentalism, Great Awakening, most of the 20th century).
But now, I don't see anyone being overwhelming criticized or harassed for not believing in God. In fact, it's often quite the opposite.
TSMPimpDaddyPain 1 year ago
Hey Stef, new listener here. Really loving the vids/podcasts so far!
One thing I always make sure to throw in there if I'm having this sort of discussion with a religious person is the notion that, in addition to being the "fear of others" (not to mention "flat-out false-nonsense"), god is VERY much a fear of death.
I've found that line of questioning to be quite useful when dealing with friends who were not raised in religious households, but later "found religion."
cjrsoccer1 1 year ago
i invite you to come for a paltalk debate in the room called answering christianity by the way it is a islamic room you be surised what you will find out.
WAFIJAMAL 1 year ago
Why are you so angry at religion? How can you be so arrogant to think that you're a better person than religious people? YOU HAVE FAITH IN THINGS!
GOD DOESN'T EXIST = A BELIEF
THE UNIVERSE WILL CONTINUE AFTER I DIE = A BELIEF
OTHER PEOPLE ARE HAVING A SIMILAR CONSCIOUS EXPERIENCE TO ME = A BELIEF
LOVE WILL BE A MAGICAL EXPERIENCE FOR ME= A BELIEF
Some people take their faith further than others. I see no reason why passionate nihilism can be considerd any less damaging than fundamentalism
grantfaceclaw 1 year ago
I think you are far too damning of religion. If we can call parenting with religion a type of trauma, why can't we call parenting into a liberal society, which upholds autonomy and individualism (and maybe also greed?) a type of trauma.
Dude, you gotta come to terms with the fact that you are going to die. If you want to BELIEVE that it's going be a black, silent, infinite pit, you're allowed to, other people choose to believe other things.
grantfaceclaw 1 year ago
@grantfaceclaw If it's all up for belief then why not make it as sweet as possible. Endless nights with Jessica Alba. Pizza half the week and Beer the next. I mean come on. We can imagine better than wings and a room in a mansion:)
BrainInSkull 1 year ago
That's not a fair representation of Dawkins, Stef. He's not vague or indecisive about his rejection of the supernatural. He describes himself as a Strong Atheist, and criticises Agnostics for assuming that God's existence is a 50:50 probability.
You describe, in a podcast, one of reasons why Atheism is in deadlock with Theism, only you refer to Philosophy: some people don't like the conclusions of Atheism and hence seek to confuse, obfuscate, and deliberately sabotage any clarity.
Valelacerte 1 year ago
God clearly has his chosen, those who are not chosen havent see nhis truth. its that simple....
your false superstitious teachings have no end to them therefore you'll never
draw a conclusion...LOST
GOD BLESS
imdatnikka901 1 year ago
I disagree w/ you on religion being a trama on children at an early age. I grew up w/out ever stepping inside a church and had parents that never spoke of GOD or Yeshsua. I found GOD because I didn't like the athiest views....and Yehshua gave me hope that not all of mankind are jackasses. And when did YEHWEH promote rape? I have to tell you that I watched a few of your videos about anarchy and I liked what you had to say...but now I'm rethinking you because you mock GOD. Time will tell.
MountainGyspy 1 year ago
Seek the lords forgiveness stefbot and he will look after you , your just a troubled soul.
AudioOpinions 1 year ago
@AudioOpinions
if you can't forgive yourself you have given up on yourself
EqualityActivists 1 year ago
Oh god does exist stefbot and you sir will most likely be begging for his forgiveness for your blatant and ignorant blasphemy
AudioOpinions 1 year ago
@AudioOpinions why would he need to ask for forgiveness in the first place, what will happen to him, its not like he would go to hell, because hell didnt exist when jesus was around, hell was added to christanity by the roman catholic church when they were intergreating viking and germanic peoples into the religion
jedjedduniec 1 year ago
@jedjedduniec Oh hell exists , but luckily god is forgiving to those who ask for his forgiveness.
AudioOpinions 1 year ago
@AudioOpinions its funny how when i show u a historic fact u reply with religious nonsense
jedjedduniec 1 year ago
Someone I know had a really bad drug problem. After he came round from his coma, he turned to Christianity and it has saved his life. Now I don't buy into the supernatural, I believe in the sun because I can see the sun. But that doesn't mean that everyone has to think the same as me. Would I convince this person not to pursue his faith, and then sit and watch while he destroys himself? No way. U are an idiot, sir - you love the sound of your own voice. Fuck you very much.
MATMAN69 1 year ago
@MATMAN69 btw I stumbled accross this video by accident
MATMAN69 1 year ago
Thanks Stefan, this helps explain the experiences I've had in presenting evidence to religious people and yet getting no where in terms of advancing a rational discussion. For religious people it always comes back to some "knowledge" that is beyond the evidence. It makes me sad that so many people waste their lives not only serving a deity that is all in their mind, but also spend vast amounts of time trying to convince others to do so as well.
canadianplanter 1 year ago
Dear truevoice08
Reading this ludicrous comment makes me ashamed to share the same genetic code with the likes of truevoice08. Yes, God is a loaded word, but here it is the Christian Yaweh. I'm sorry to burst the bubble, but whether or not there was nothing before the big bang remains to be discovered. If there was matter, then it wasn't from nothing was it? Furthermore, science has yet to really understand what matter is, so stay tuned and withhold the emotional reactions please fool.
rennystopford 1 year ago
lol freeing people of religion? forget about it.
these people have been brainwashed to the point of their entire self image
being dependent on their religion.
the moment anyone suggests anything about their religion it = a direct attack on the ego, and it will defend itself.
Whisper6911 1 year ago
i love this guy =)
tylerwrodgers 1 year ago
All your arguments are not against religion but against FUNDAMENTALIST religion. God is such a loaded word. But faith is the belief that, contrary to what Objectivist's claim, there is an ultimate 'nonzero' so to speak that started everything. It's logical because everything cannot come from nothing. Any good theologian can refute all atheist's claims.
truevoice08 2 years ago
Cosmological argument is not Logical. Look it up.
zeddicus12 2 years ago
but that has nothing to do with religion.... That reasoning does not at all justify being a christian or muslim or whatnot.... That just makes 'agnostic', or spiritually 'unsure',, X)
Sivels 2 years ago
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Pianomiano 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Sorry 'truevoice' I agree with the first sentence regarding organized religion, but in the words of the great Alan Watts, "you can't have something without nothing." What is wrong with nothing?
(Luke Clayborn Hopper)
glopur0 1 year ago
@truevoice08 Evidence suggests that all causes have causes - but that doesn't imply an initial cause. Saying that there must be an initial cause is exactly like saying there must be a highest integer. Thus you're asking us to accept that there was a first event AS WELL as accepting that all causes have causes. This basically means that you're proving your claim (there was a creator) with the same claim!
clemonsx90 1 year ago
lol this video is great
pelucas716 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
How is he able to consistently construct straw men in the way that he does?
Oh, I know. He's irrational. How fitting.
RicharLauer 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
he does do an excellent job of that. I love how he says it's so ridicules that an all power full god created the earth. and that it's so much more possible that the earth made it's self.
I'm dumb because i believe in the beginning God. And your smart because you believe In the beginning Dirt.
3849234 2 years ago
Well "The Earth" did not make itself steff never said that.
zeddicus12 2 years ago
He speaks without spaces between his words. A little hard to understand.
Sleeko11 2 years ago
Wow, after reading some of the negative comments on this first page by elliot91murphy and others, I pity whatever professor has to read papers written by these fools (assuming they get to college).
He's NOT trying to disprove god in this video, he's explaining why he feels atheists can't use reason in arguing against the religious.
Can you TRY to listen to and UNDERSTAND what he says? It isn't THAT hard to follow his words.
DarthCormac 2 years ago 14
This comment has received too many negative votes show
if you came to my church, and weren't a christian, you wouldn't be kicked to the curb. my parents didn't use their authority to brainwash me. its a free choice
TSchmidMusic 2 years ago
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TSchmidMusic 2 years ago
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elliot91murphy 2 years ago
You argue against the existence of a supreme being by highlighting the absurdities of the bible; a manifestly unsatisfying approach I'm afraid.
ozxenophile 2 years ago
ozxenophile;
How would you argue against God?
nogogma 2 years ago
It's clear that he isn't trying to disprove the existence of God in this particular video. He is only saying that theists cannot be convinced otherwise, because of a traumatised childhood. Why don't you check out some of the other podcasts in particular 13: Proof, Disproof and Deities, that one was very helpful for me.
2etribution 2 years ago
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elliot91murphy 2 years ago
Until a Deity can be defined to the level of being logically and rationally comprehended according to fact that conforms with objective reality then I can only conclude with absolute certainty there is no such thing that exists.The same holds true for anything the mind can invent with impossible characteristics.Like square circles or a 50 sided hexagon.
Imagine that eh? I just made up a 50 sided hex. Do you believe such a thing exists? Or do you have to claim ignorant agnosticism?
nogogma 2 years ago
Well you are focusing on the Christian (or other religion's) conception of a deity, which as I've indicated... take the near absolute improbability of 'A" deity and multiply that by another near absolute improbability to the power of near absolute improbability. In any case, no you cannot violate the basic definitions of mathematical constructs, though a deity could, theoretically, violate the known laws of the universe. Hey, we COULD be a highly advanced computer simulation! How would you know?
EmeraldView 2 years ago
You've been watching to much of those Matrix movies .... LOL ...
nogogma 2 years ago
LOL. Well the point I'm making is that we can only make statements and know things within varying degrees of certainty within the confines of our own understanding of reality and the universe. While often high, it can be trumped. I've often contemplated what would be convincing evidence of a God. I used to say, well perhaps the 10 commandments in mile wide letters on the face of Mars (but aliens could do that). So it would have to violate our known physical laws. Like a planet sized solid cube!
EmeraldView 2 years ago
I hear ya putna ! The thing is. In all the thousands of years of Gods. The closest man has come to discovering God is inventing more Gods. There is no God out there anywhere. And it's so obvious too. I think it's time for people to stop believing in the Santa Claus in the sky by now. Adults need to grow up and outgrow their childish and idiotic God beliefs and get on with reality.
nogogma 2 years ago
Well that is why I am, and everyone should be, an atheist, because we have absolutely no evidence what-so-ever of any deity (least of all a deity that interacts with our world and has personal relationships with its inhabitants). I have a lack of belief in a God, I don't claim absolute certainty there is no God (because that would take being all knowing), but as we have NO evidence, we should proceed through life and human progress under the rational realistic assumption that God does not exist
EmeraldView 2 years ago
True. However, like I said before, we have enough intelligence to know there is no such thing as a God out there anywhere simply because it is an idea that cannot even be defined with any amount of consistency that can be rationally and logically comprehensible by any individual who has the capability of thinking. I never liked the "lack of belief" description of atheism in the first place. It appeals to ignorance and agnosticism to much. Kind of similar to "weak atheism".
nogogma 2 years ago
We have enough intelligence to make reasonable conclusions as to what we know in our every day experiences and observations in the world and universe. We have the capacity to speculate as to what is or is not possible based on our understanding of the universe. However, we cannot claim to have absolute perfect knowledge of reality and our universe, so there IS room for things we simply don't know or comprehend. How can you KNOW there is no god (not a specific conception of one, but any).
EmeraldView 2 years ago
Go back to 2 days ago in my comments I explained it. You just don't seem to be able to grasp what I said. I know there is no God like I know there are no spirits that haunt people in grave yards late at night. Gods are all things invented from the superstitious human mind out of ignorance and fear. Use your mind a little & you too can shed your weak/lack of belief atheist/agnostic position & be a strong/positive atheist.
nogogma 2 years ago
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elliot91murphy 2 years ago
There's always a possibility that when no one's looking inanimate objects come to life. Only true idiots would count that out entirely!
I only comment because you use the term 'true idiots'.
mesCheerios 2 years ago
He is absolutely correct. Atheists suck! They suck at being true atheists. Positive atheists. We have the new modern atheists saying they are agnostic and atheist at the same time. They say they don't believe in God but still express ignorance and uncertainty whether god exists or not. Step up to the plate atheists & give up all the fear of proclaiming there is no God period.
nogogma 2 years ago
But it's impossible to make such an absolute claim. The best we can do is say that there is absolutely NO known evidence of God, nor reasonable, rational basis to believe that there is a God or Gods, particularly the types of Gods that are portrayed by the various religions of the world. But regardless, it's irrational to worship and fear something which provides no evidence of its existence, let alone interest in us.
EmeraldView 2 years ago
"But it's impossible to make such an absolute claim." Little do you realize it but this is an absolute statement.
Would you say that existence is an absolute? Gravity and the air we breathe is an absolute?
Gods only exist in peoples minds.
Would you say that it is impossible to assert there are no ghosts, devils, spirits or Santa Claus? To assert positively there is no such thing as God might appear to dogmatic & create fear of other atheists for making such an assertion.
nogogma 2 years ago
Yes nogogma, it IS impossible (or essentially next to impossible) to says ghosts, devils, spirits or Santa Claus do not exist, not to mention Big foot, the Loch ness monster, leprechauns, and the flying pink elephant IN YOUR ROOM, as we don't have a 100% complete picture of reality. We can only say with NEAR complete certainty these things don't exist, not 100% certainty though. We should operate under the rational likelihood that they don't exist until evidence presents itself to be explored.
EmeraldView 2 years ago
For agnostics like you it's impossible to say but not for the positive atheist.
nogogma 2 years ago
Gnostics like you often times have very dogmatic tendencies because you claim absolute certainty for things that are not currently testable or observable. 99% certainty is MORE than enough to make reasonable and rational decisions on how to proceed on things. Claims of 100% certainty against the unseen are almost as bad as claims of 100% certainty for the unseen.
EmeraldView 2 years ago
Why do you think that 100% certainty about things unseen for the positive (dogmatic) atheist are just as bad?
nogogma 2 years ago
Well I said 'almost' as bad, but only in the respect that one is being closed minded to the possibility (no matter how infinitesimally slim that possibility may be) that there is more to what we know than what we can perceive. Again, it would be foolish to take actions or conduct one's life on the basis of an infinitesimally small possibility, particularly one that there is no evidence for, however that doesn't mean the possibility of the unknown existing (whatever it is) is absolute zero.
EmeraldView 2 years ago
I'm not closed minded to the possibility of something but what I'm referring to is something with impossible characteristics, i.e., the entities I described, ghosts, spirits or anything to impossible that cannot exist anywhere outside the mind. Just how would you define a God or the supernatural? I mean, c'mon, do you really think there is a Santa with magical powers living in the North Pole? If you do then you are claiming ignorance.
nogogma 2 years ago
What I'm saying is that the probability of Santa (for instance) being real is infinitesimally small, well into the realm of our being able to make the assertive claim that for all practical purposes in our known and understood reality that Santa does not exist. We simply leave off the preamble to that and say "Santa does not exist", even though we can NOT technically claim with 100% complete absolute certainty that he does not. It's a subtle but distinct point.
EmeraldView 2 years ago
In the end, you are a "believer". You, as a positive atheist believe, even though you do not have absolute knowledge of the whole of the universe and reality, that God does not exist. That being true is significantly more probable than those who believe a God does exist. Me, I have an EXTREMELY HIGH degree of certainty, from all that is known, understood, and observed, that Gods do not exist, but I don't claim ABSOLUTE certainty. Of course, I know you can't give most theists any wiggle room.
EmeraldView 2 years ago
I also have an extremely high degree of certainty that self contradictory/impossible entities are nonexistent and no I am not a believer. I am a nonbeliever. I make it a point not to just believe in things. If I find myself believing in something it's usually temporary especially when I learn of its self refuting characteristics. I think you need to listen to stef's videos a little more. I don't think anything of what he has said so far is sinking into your head.
nogogma 2 years ago
But you are a believer. You believe everything that you (and humanity) now knows about the universe and our perceived reality, absolutely precludes things beyond our comprehension, knowledge, or understanding. Indeed from what we currently know and understand and have evidence of, the odds of A higher power (or God) is exceedingly remote, and man's religious definitions of one, far MORE remote than that even, but we will never achieve 100% perfect knowledge of such things, just near perfect.
EmeraldView 2 years ago
The only sort of God that I can see having any real use would be the belief in a God, or Gods of nature. At least a belief in that sort of God might promote the respect and love of all things natural and we might all start to treat our world with a little more tenderness.
Perhaps that's called Wiccan or Paganism... I don't know.
CelticReject 2 years ago
Mother Nature would qualify as a God of nature but if you tried to worship Her, She'd kick you in the ass and tell you there is much work to be done, make our world a good and safe place to bring our offspring.
The human species spends their resources trying to get laid, that comes before making peace. Humans are idiots.
rodat6 2 years ago
Yeah, and human nature is a result of evolution through "mother" nature. We behave this way because we have been sculpted to behave this way. Besides, nobody would have to spend resources "making peace" if so many didn't spend their resources making war.
thorell9 2 years ago
Anyone who interprets any religious book literally is daft. Then again, anyone who argues with one who interprets any religious book literally is equally as daft.
The story of Adam and Eve and the Garden of Eden is a poetic retelling of how mankind lost its innocence through consciousness. The names Adam and Eve are irrelavant. We, as humans, became self-aware, and thus felt the need to wear clothing aside from its environmental necessity.
Thus, the "Original Sin" is consciousness.
poprockssuck87 2 years ago
I am a deist who believes in determinism. My rationalization for this is that there can be no "free will."
We have the ability to choose, but we do not have the ability to choose the means with which we choose. Nor do we have the ability to decide the means with which we interpret.
Therefore, we are the sum of our biology and the influences that it endures. This means that everything, from the beginning, could be no other way. I just "choose" to credit a creator, the "Gift Giver" if you like.
poprockssuck87 2 years ago
I find that though atheists consider humans, being animals themselves, to have evolved from more primitive animals, as do I, they ironically seem to take the theist mentality that we as humans, with our conciousness, are not subject to these same animalistic tendencies.
The idea of evolution as well as the definition of an animal, or life for that matter, mean nothing outside of human understanding, and thus cannot in any way contradict the idea of a deity.
poprockssuck87 2 years ago
What I mean to say is that you choose to be an atheist. However, you are an atheist because of your biological makeup and the environment in which you reside. If you had been born with a slightly different genetic makeup or environment, you might be have been a theist.
You do not choose who you are. "You are," and then you choose.
Thus, some choose belief and others choose its negation, but to argue over such a matter is childish because no one really had a "choice" in the matter.
poprockssuck87 2 years ago
When we act in the face of alternatives, we are acting off of the knowledge we acquired. If you say, knowledge doesn't matter, then you will undoubtably drift along in a daze being motivated by nothing since you have no will to use your mind. You're right, "You are" and then you choose -- how you choose is by the use of your mind. You can "choose" to use it or not. How you define your human nature is determined by your mind, the base of all your definitions. Reject the mind and reject yourself.
runningfrog43 2 years ago
I do not believe that obtaining the concept of a determined world voids all future intellectual development. My knowledge of the, as I perceive it, deterministic world does not inhibit my ability to comprehend the importance of knowledge just as your awareness of the fact that you're a conscious being doesn't impede on your conscious decisions. Yes, my concept of human nature is decided by my mind, yet my mind develops based on my biology's interpretation of reality, of which I have no control.
poprockssuck87 2 years ago
What troubles me about determinism, is that it seems to diminish the variations of causality. That we possess consciousness, but inanimate matter doesn't. That if the world is indeed set and determined, then we are apart of that model, and so is our mind, which is our own causality. I would argue that determinists, tend to ignore their own rules. That reality is an end in itself--and only the evasion OF IT would force one to feel mentally helpless in the face of the effects it presented.
runningfrog43 2 years ago
I only have an issue with this video so far as it works on the assumption that a creator deity is omnipotent and completely unknowable. I think this is more of a stab not so much at religion, but at fundamentalism and orthodoxy.
Fluffyduck is right, this is a very refreshingly thought out argument for a position that is too often dismissed.
Sheldawg1 2 years ago
This was a very interesting video. It does seem that fear is a great motivation for belief in deities. I am wrestling with admitting my disbelief because of my deeply spiritual family.
mrgrant888 2 years ago
One of the most refreshing videos on atheism ive seen in a while +5
TheFluffyDuck 3 years ago
Yeah, I think God agrees with you about religion. After all, 99& of religions are human opinons and have nothing to do with God anyway. When someone can take a bucket of dirt and make a living soul I'll applaud them. When someone can take absolutely nothing, then make the bucket of dirt and then make a living soul, then I'll believe in evolution. Until then... dream on, you just don't want to be accountable for what you do in life, whether you realise that or not.
hicsumfabulalepus 3 years ago
Um, if he didn't want to be accountable for what he did in life, he would not have made so many podcasts
socratestheathenean 3 years ago
No, not that sort of accountable. Breaking laws will make you accountable to courts of law, but what about the everyday sins that we all commit; some things that we think only we know about. People like to fool themselves into thinking that because no one finds out about a lie, or some other sin that they've got away with it... that's the kind of accountability, that and the fact that we're accountable for being arrogant enough to think there is no God; that there is nothing better than us.
hicsumfabulalepus 3 years ago
I don't think he is being arrogant, he just has a lack of faith that all religious people must have. When you start to question religion, it falls apart. So you have to have some faith in it, or you just can't believe. That in comparison to the laws of gravity. You can have no faith in it at all, but when you jump in your living room, your going to fall back down. It's just that since you can not objectively prove there is religion, he is using that to disprove it.
socratestheathenean 3 years ago
But, if you prove religion, then that defeats the purpose of that religion, and if there was objective proof of religion, then there would be only one religion.
socratestheathenean 3 years ago
There is only one 'religion'. Jesus stated that quite clearly in the Bible; unless, of course, belief in Jesus is also suspended. I don't think he's being deliberatly arrogant and he seems a genuine person, although a bit scary. At the end of the day, for me, the Bible has the answers, it's just whether we're humble enough to follow them or think we can do better going it alone. 6,000 odd years I think has proven we can't go it alone. Africa is one case of 'man dominating man to his injury'
hicsumfabulalepus 3 years ago
I agree with you about faith; but I don't think religion has anything to do with God. People think it does, but when, like you say, when you examine it, religion and the Bible are not even on the same planet let alone the same page and that's why it falls apart. I do believe in the Bible, but I don't believe in organised religion. For me, chance doesn't even come into it, it's illogical to think that we arrived here by chance but it does give people a way of shoving God out of the picture.
hicsumfabulalepus 3 years ago
the "god" is in you. you can feel it by respect everything as it is.Some study of biology will help.And a little bit of NLP.
jayhoe546 3 years ago
so illusion means understanding/knowing and it helps organism to act.being sure of something gives you permission to move.Its a map.And everybody are creating illusions from beginning to the end.Discipline is the key to be a natural being.Its very hard and drives people crazy because of the system they are born in.Complicated thing is that its actually so much easier to just "close the eyes" and live by the "rules" even if its drives people to evolve to some kind of fat ants or something.."sad"
jayhoe546 3 years ago
i think the bible is a very good book writen by very "smart"or very "stupid/uncertain" people.Thats why its very misunderstood. There was a guy (Jesus) telling about belief systems and connection with so called unconsious mind. If he existed nowdays he would be categorized as a philosopher or hypnotist or maybe psychiatrist.But im my opinion its just about being openminded,sharp and having a real respect to nature. Everybody has a connection to subconsciousness but have no time to understand it.
jayhoe546 3 years ago
Brilliant way of making money dont you think?
KasraB91 3 years ago
Lol at your old ending animation. =P
JK, Stef, you rock. I'm sharing freedomainradio with everyone close to me.
FreiheitKampfer 3 years ago
Thanks, I really do appreciate that! :)
stefbot 3 years ago
Proselytizing for atheism? Ironic.
calliopemichael 3 years ago
why shekels ?
YAyoelangel 3 years ago
The attempt to humanize the word " GOD " and he is all good and just is the most ridiculous idea ever.
Younglad666 3 years ago
Why!
1467unschool 3 years ago
I also believe that belief in god is a fear of being alone. Lonely people like to believe that someone is there listening.
nkosmach 3 years ago 2
"I also believe that belief in god is a fear of being alone. Lonely people like to believe that someone is there listening."
It's the lonely people who usually have the time to think for themselves. The group people just agree with everyone.
okkima 2 years ago
Now, Stefan. How do you measure truth, except by the comparison of the truth possessed by one thing to pure truth? Can you prove pure truth exists? Does truth have measurable effects in and of itself, or only in relation to other, lesser truths?
SansAuthoritas 3 years ago
Stefan says that religion is merely a trauma inflicted on the young. He does not explain how so many physically and emotionally mature adults, raised as atheists begin to believe in the existence of God.
Stefan says that the God of the Old Testament approved of rape, slavery and murder. He does not say where.
Stefan says that belief in God is sustained by fear. No, Stefan. Belief in God is sustained by love. Atheism is sustained by fear of the ramifications of believing: big life changes.
SansAuthoritas 3 years ago
Again, God is not complex. He is utterly simple. Everything that has existence does so in relation to him. Everything that has beauty derives its beauty from and bears its beauty in relation to the essence of pure, objective beauty. Everything that has goodness derives this goodness from the essence of pure, objective goodness. Is there such a thing as perfect happiness? No? Then why is it in our nature to long for something that does not exist?
SansAuthoritas 3 years ago
"Again, God is not complex. He is utterly simple."
Oh really? Maybe you should get some evidence that a god exists before you try and describe its properties.
TheJacolyte 3 years ago
"Maybe you should get some evidence that a god exists before you try and describe its properties."
Jacolyte, really? Is it unscientific to proceed from the nature of the perceived effects to the source of the perceived effects? Detectives do it all the time.
Now, you say that God has no perceived effects. Billions of people on earth who have changed their lives due to the notion of God are an effect of something, you will admit.
SansAuthoritas 3 years ago