"They can't pay their average worker a standard living wage"
What company has most of their employees (average worker) being paid minimum wage? Who takes these jobs? The people who take the low skilled jobs are supposed to be handicapped or teenagers who have no skills and want to make extra money. Those jobs are not there to make a living off of.
There should be NO minimum wage. People should go to an employer and mutually negotiate what they should get, whether it's $30/hr or $2/hr.
@TXatheist SOME businesses will not be able to handle it though, and that's takings jobs FROM some, in order to make others jobs pay out more. When was the last time you saw a person pumping gas for tips? That job is GONE because of laws. It's fine when you ARE employed, but ask a starving person if they are willing to temporarily work for $2 an hour. Furthermore, my wages went up, then the wage increase was introduced, and now those raises mean NOTHING, everyone gets paid more now.
@Clyaton Sure, but most businesses can simply pay their executives less. Starving person? I work with the homeless and I've talked to some of them and I bet none of them would work for $2/hr because it's not reasonable. It's easier and logical to just ask people for money because that's the amount of effort someone should have to put in to make $2/hr especially if you think someone else has contributed to society to make $200 or $2000/hr.
@TXatheist Most businesses don't HAVE executives. You are considering the biggest of business first? Homeless wouldn't work for 2 an hr because they make more sitting by a wal-mart and holding a sign, which is fine, but some people do WANT to work and have just had it rough. You have to also take it from a big business owner's perspective. You have someone dealing with multi-billion dollar accounts and the entire business, you WILL throw him a good chunk of that money.
@Clyaton I've been saying that for years with immigration. If an employer is found to be using illegals just put him in jail for 10 years. Employees do what to employers?
@TXatheist Senior management in local business is usually the owner. Most management of even corporate chains don't usually make bank. Hell, some pay their management slightly above the other employees. I live in rural America, I see nothing but small businesses here, and none of those people are rich, and they often work 50+ hours for their salaries if they even have a salary. Cutting the owners pay is up to the owner, I'm just saying laws won't fix it, and forcing it just hurts the honest
@Clyaton And the places I've worked the CEO made 300k minimum and many of the other's made 1M. 50+ hours? I grew up in a town of 8000 but now live in the Austin area which is 1M and hardly anybody gets away with just 40 hours a week if they are salaried. The only reason hourly workers don't work 40+ is the company doesn't want to pay time and a half.
@TXatheist Wow, how relevent. But as for minimum wage, If businesses enjoy so many benefits, they should raise pay on their own! DUH! Minimum wage doesn't touch inflation, but you have to realize, why couldn't minimum wage be $50.00 an hr? Cuz everyone would go out of business! There IS a limit, just cuz we seldom push the limit, and lag behind inflation, does NOT mean minimum wage carries no consequences. No one can live on minimum wage, and businesses seem 'good' for 'competitive' wages
@Clyaton You are welcome for me pointing that out ! You are naive if you think businesses will raise pay on their own because the greed at the top doesn't work like that. $50/hr if need be but right now that's not it. To have housing, transportation, health care, utilities and food it takes about $12-15/hr to raise a family. Don't forget you also give people much more buying power when you pay them more on everyday goods unlike a CEO who might buy a second yacht.
@Clyaton Instead of minimum wage helping the masses, it kills the really low paying (easy low labor) jobs, as well as giving all local businesses a very LOW an unacceptable 'competitive' wages. This business pays $7.75, this one pays $8.00, and the next pays $8.50 while the bigger businesses, call centers, manufactures pay $9-12. None of the small differences matter unless you can get overtime, you are stuck to 40 hours a week and most places don't bend unless it's a factory or call center.
@Clyaton The only easy low labor job is the one you look down your nose at. The only thing competitive is how far employers can compete to get cheaper labor. I got news for you. I know two people who got so desperate for work they took corporate bigger business jobs at Sears and Radio Shack...both paying minimum.
@TXatheist It's an ENTRY level into the workforce. When people are in their teens, those kind of jobs are AWESOME and help you build up work experience. I don't look down on these types of jobs, I'm a college student, who can barely afford rent and bills, and I work at a local rest. for $8.00 after my 'raise' from minimum wage. Businesses HAVE TO HAVE WORKERS, and to do well they also must keep their workers. You act like there are no consequences to minimum wage but there are plenty.
@Clyaton I got news for you in that the economy stinks. I know guys who get out of their MBA program and go to work at Taco Bell because there are no jobs. I'll bet you don't get much more than $8/hr after you graduate unless you are majoring in something with a good amount of math or science.
@TXatheist That's not new news.. lol.. As for not getting much more than $8.00, I hope you are wrong, but I'll probably get a masters since any decent political science career is hard to obtain without at least that. I am aware of the hardships of graduates, many of my friends have graduated, and about half probably got decent or good jobs right away, the others are still trying.
@TXatheist 1 Min wage has never been in my lifetime, a livable wage, so it fails the goal any way. 2 If it suddenly increased to $12-15 p/hr businesses WILL go out. Some businesses pay close to min wage and STILL go out, that is happening to another place I worked at right now (goodcents). 3 prices of goods are soon affected by the massive increase of money in circulation, causing demand, inflation, and higher prices, requiring a HIGHER min wage. Some businesses CAN afford it, others cannot.
@TXatheist Also, take into account that when you make these laws, the ones who DON'T follow them are the ones who make the most money, and are the greedy ones we try to redistribute from in the first place. So only the honest business man suffers more while the others get their subsidies, special tax breaks, illegal immigrants to evade minimum wage, etc. I'm a poor person, but I'm not a greedy person, I don't know why some are sooo stingy with massive wealth, but redistribution doesn't work.
@TXatheist Also, take into account that when you make these laws, the ones who DON'T follow them are the ones who make the most money, and are the greedy ones we try to redistribute from in the first place. So only the honest business man suffers more while the others get their subsidies, special tax breaks, illegal immigrants to evade minimum wage, etc. I'm a poor person, but I'm not a greedy person, I don't know why some are sooo stingy with massive wealth, but redistribution doesn't work.
@Clyaton Redistribution works to provide roads, schools, police, fireman, military and traffic control via taxes. I'm talking about big business because that's where the wage disparity problem occurs mostly. Hardly anyone wants to work for $2/hr because it's not worth it. Just because someone handles the Walmart account that buys 50 billion widgets doesn't mean the sales person needs 250k a year. When a greedy business man breaks the law just put him in jail.
I used to make minimum wage, when I was in high school. Then I graduated and decided that I wanted more STUFF. So I studied my trade and learned every aspect of it. I now own my own business, and I'm well off. I tell my employees to do your best and you will be compensated with what the market will bear. Some employees do well and others don't. Some people are happy with their station in life, and do not want to attain what others want. The bottom line WORK and it will come to you. NO FREE RIDES
I'm not talking about a free ride. I'm talking about a 40 hour work week and making enough to have a home, health-care, food and money for transportation to work.
You get qualifications through education and learning developing new skills. Find something you are good at and get better at it.
You will find better jobs with better salaries.
I dont know what you do for a living, or what quals you have, if you earn min wage, chances are employers dont see much in you and cannot justify paying you more than is legally required.
Low wages have nothing to do with corruption, its simply a market rate derived from excess supply in the low skilled labour market.
If there is too much of something it becomes cheaper, this is really simple supply and demand theory. Price fixing and wage legislation is harmful but i cant seem to get this through to you.
'I have more business knowledge than you understand.'
Clearly not sir, if you believe that raising wages from $7 to $11 artificially through legislation, creates more disposable income then you fail to comprehend even the most basic of all economic theory.
This is too much to explain here PM me and ill explain it.
Because you say it doesn't only means you have been spoon fed the neo-con lie. If you don't think someone being able to pay all their bills and have more left over because they got a 55% raise then you fail to comprehend the concept of disposable income. I don't want a neo-con to explain how it's ok to justify paying one executive 1 M and a average worker $6/hr. I get it, it's corruption and unethical.
People's livelyhood is not a market analysis. If they don't have enough money to live on then you try to help. How? By balancing the corruption in overpaying CEO"s to the average worker. You can't get it through to me because you don't see the problem with the inbalance. That you refuse to see because you are guided by greed and not ethics.
I know how to get quals. Some people aren't scholastic so they don't go to college. Only 1/3 of the US has a college degree. Chances are employers would rather justify paying people as little as possible because rich people don't care about the poor, just making themself rich. I am a degreed accountant making good money. It's not about me, it's about the people I see get shafted time after time in our board meetings.
you can. You raise the standard wage from $7 to $11 and their disposable income just tripled. Walmart is cheap because they have no ethics. Yes, but who has the disposable income when goods go down by 1%? The rich buy more but the poor have very little disposable income/ no benefit. I have more business knowledge than you understand. I work w/ CEO's I despise. they cut headcount to meet expectations instead of reduce their bonus. You think it's not greed to please the rich? Naive
No, I don't shop Walmart though it's often the lowest. I have ethics unlike most executives and shop based on other than price. 3 skilled people aren't going to break a company with a small salary variance. I'd buy the best value tv. I'm not that cheap or greedy unlike certain unethical americans who would be suited for a true capitalist job, a sweatshop in china for the rest of their life.
It's not balanced when you pay one guy $6/hr and another $600/hr. That's corruption. The problem is the greedy execs decide how much someone is worth by how rich they can make them. They make the rules, not the mainstream. CEO"s have no more talent than me as I work with them daily. They have less ethics and choose to find shortcuts to justify their unethical behavior.
Actually you pay people what they can contribute to the firm, if the CEO doesnt make his money back then he will be dropped because hes a terrible investment.
A burger flipper might earn $40 a day, but he doesnt bring that much to the company.
IF by chance hes absolute magic and makes the shop an extra $1m a year, sure his wages will increase to meet that extra contribution.
I hear the same neo-conservative sentiment from some people as well, and that's pretty sad since I live in Canada (I'm not bashing the US, it's just that we're a very liberal country). We've increased the minimum wage here as well, but it is still not enough. Students like me just can't get by without student loans and help from our families.
"They can't pay their average worker a standard living wage"
What company has most of their employees (average worker) being paid minimum wage? Who takes these jobs? The people who take the low skilled jobs are supposed to be handicapped or teenagers who have no skills and want to make extra money. Those jobs are not there to make a living off of.
There should be NO minimum wage. People should go to an employer and mutually negotiate what they should get, whether it's $30/hr or $2/hr.
jjenson2006 8 months ago
oh man....
you are like a brick wall. no amount of economic theory can through to your head.
ch1kusoo 2 years ago
Because you haven't presented any valid economic theory.
TXatheist 2 years ago
@TXatheist SOME businesses will not be able to handle it though, and that's takings jobs FROM some, in order to make others jobs pay out more. When was the last time you saw a person pumping gas for tips? That job is GONE because of laws. It's fine when you ARE employed, but ask a starving person if they are willing to temporarily work for $2 an hour. Furthermore, my wages went up, then the wage increase was introduced, and now those raises mean NOTHING, everyone gets paid more now.
Clyaton 5 months ago
@Clyaton Sure, but most businesses can simply pay their executives less. Starving person? I work with the homeless and I've talked to some of them and I bet none of them would work for $2/hr because it's not reasonable. It's easier and logical to just ask people for money because that's the amount of effort someone should have to put in to make $2/hr especially if you think someone else has contributed to society to make $200 or $2000/hr.
TXatheist 5 months ago
@TXatheist Most businesses don't HAVE executives. You are considering the biggest of business first? Homeless wouldn't work for 2 an hr because they make more sitting by a wal-mart and holding a sign, which is fine, but some people do WANT to work and have just had it rough. You have to also take it from a big business owner's perspective. You have someone dealing with multi-billion dollar accounts and the entire business, you WILL throw him a good chunk of that money.
Clyaton 5 months ago
@Clyaton That is if you don't want to get butt fucked by your employees, it happens all the time.
Clyaton 5 months ago
@Clyaton I've been saying that for years with immigration. If an employer is found to be using illegals just put him in jail for 10 years. Employees do what to employers?
TXatheist 5 months ago
@Clyaton What do most businesses have then if not management and employees? I put executive but you could call that senior management also.
TXatheist 5 months ago
@TXatheist Senior management in local business is usually the owner. Most management of even corporate chains don't usually make bank. Hell, some pay their management slightly above the other employees. I live in rural America, I see nothing but small businesses here, and none of those people are rich, and they often work 50+ hours for their salaries if they even have a salary. Cutting the owners pay is up to the owner, I'm just saying laws won't fix it, and forcing it just hurts the honest
Clyaton 5 months ago
@Clyaton And the places I've worked the CEO made 300k minimum and many of the other's made 1M. 50+ hours? I grew up in a town of 8000 but now live in the Austin area which is 1M and hardly anybody gets away with just 40 hours a week if they are salaried. The only reason hourly workers don't work 40+ is the company doesn't want to pay time and a half.
TXatheist 5 months ago
@Clyaton You sure do "like" many videos related to medical marijuana :)
TXatheist 5 months ago
@TXatheist Wow, how relevent. But as for minimum wage, If businesses enjoy so many benefits, they should raise pay on their own! DUH! Minimum wage doesn't touch inflation, but you have to realize, why couldn't minimum wage be $50.00 an hr? Cuz everyone would go out of business! There IS a limit, just cuz we seldom push the limit, and lag behind inflation, does NOT mean minimum wage carries no consequences. No one can live on minimum wage, and businesses seem 'good' for 'competitive' wages
Clyaton 5 months ago
@Clyaton You are welcome for me pointing that out ! You are naive if you think businesses will raise pay on their own because the greed at the top doesn't work like that. $50/hr if need be but right now that's not it. To have housing, transportation, health care, utilities and food it takes about $12-15/hr to raise a family. Don't forget you also give people much more buying power when you pay them more on everyday goods unlike a CEO who might buy a second yacht.
TXatheist 5 months ago
@Clyaton Instead of minimum wage helping the masses, it kills the really low paying (easy low labor) jobs, as well as giving all local businesses a very LOW an unacceptable 'competitive' wages. This business pays $7.75, this one pays $8.00, and the next pays $8.50 while the bigger businesses, call centers, manufactures pay $9-12. None of the small differences matter unless you can get overtime, you are stuck to 40 hours a week and most places don't bend unless it's a factory or call center.
Clyaton 5 months ago
@Clyaton The only easy low labor job is the one you look down your nose at. The only thing competitive is how far employers can compete to get cheaper labor. I got news for you. I know two people who got so desperate for work they took corporate bigger business jobs at Sears and Radio Shack...both paying minimum.
TXatheist 5 months ago
@TXatheist It's an ENTRY level into the workforce. When people are in their teens, those kind of jobs are AWESOME and help you build up work experience. I don't look down on these types of jobs, I'm a college student, who can barely afford rent and bills, and I work at a local rest. for $8.00 after my 'raise' from minimum wage. Businesses HAVE TO HAVE WORKERS, and to do well they also must keep their workers. You act like there are no consequences to minimum wage but there are plenty.
Clyaton 4 months ago
@Clyaton I got news for you in that the economy stinks. I know guys who get out of their MBA program and go to work at Taco Bell because there are no jobs. I'll bet you don't get much more than $8/hr after you graduate unless you are majoring in something with a good amount of math or science.
TXatheist 4 months ago
@TXatheist That's not new news.. lol.. As for not getting much more than $8.00, I hope you are wrong, but I'll probably get a masters since any decent political science career is hard to obtain without at least that. I am aware of the hardships of graduates, many of my friends have graduated, and about half probably got decent or good jobs right away, the others are still trying.
Clyaton 4 months ago
@TXatheist 1 Min wage has never been in my lifetime, a livable wage, so it fails the goal any way. 2 If it suddenly increased to $12-15 p/hr businesses WILL go out. Some businesses pay close to min wage and STILL go out, that is happening to another place I worked at right now (goodcents). 3 prices of goods are soon affected by the massive increase of money in circulation, causing demand, inflation, and higher prices, requiring a HIGHER min wage. Some businesses CAN afford it, others cannot.
Clyaton 4 months ago
@TXatheist Also, take into account that when you make these laws, the ones who DON'T follow them are the ones who make the most money, and are the greedy ones we try to redistribute from in the first place. So only the honest business man suffers more while the others get their subsidies, special tax breaks, illegal immigrants to evade minimum wage, etc. I'm a poor person, but I'm not a greedy person, I don't know why some are sooo stingy with massive wealth, but redistribution doesn't work.
Clyaton 5 months ago
@TXatheist Also, take into account that when you make these laws, the ones who DON'T follow them are the ones who make the most money, and are the greedy ones we try to redistribute from in the first place. So only the honest business man suffers more while the others get their subsidies, special tax breaks, illegal immigrants to evade minimum wage, etc. I'm a poor person, but I'm not a greedy person, I don't know why some are sooo stingy with massive wealth, but redistribution doesn't work.
Clyaton 5 months ago
@Clyaton Redistribution works to provide roads, schools, police, fireman, military and traffic control via taxes. I'm talking about big business because that's where the wage disparity problem occurs mostly. Hardly anyone wants to work for $2/hr because it's not worth it. Just because someone handles the Walmart account that buys 50 billion widgets doesn't mean the sales person needs 250k a year. When a greedy business man breaks the law just put him in jail.
TXatheist 5 months ago
I used to make minimum wage, when I was in high school. Then I graduated and decided that I wanted more STUFF. So I studied my trade and learned every aspect of it. I now own my own business, and I'm well off. I tell my employees to do your best and you will be compensated with what the market will bear. Some employees do well and others don't. Some people are happy with their station in life, and do not want to attain what others want. The bottom line WORK and it will come to you. NO FREE RIDES
bamalama98 3 years ago
I'm not talking about a free ride. I'm talking about a 40 hour work week and making enough to have a home, health-care, food and money for transportation to work.
TXatheist 3 years ago
apologies for double post, youtube lost it, now its come back.
digitised 4 years ago
You get qualifications through education and learning developing new skills. Find something you are good at and get better at it.
You will find better jobs with better salaries.
I dont know what you do for a living, or what quals you have, if you earn min wage, chances are employers dont see much in you and cannot justify paying you more than is legally required.
digitised 4 years ago
Low wages have nothing to do with corruption, its simply a market rate derived from excess supply in the low skilled labour market.
If there is too much of something it becomes cheaper, this is really simple supply and demand theory. Price fixing and wage legislation is harmful but i cant seem to get this through to you.
digitised 4 years ago
'I have more business knowledge than you understand.'
Clearly not sir, if you believe that raising wages from $7 to $11 artificially through legislation, creates more disposable income then you fail to comprehend even the most basic of all economic theory.
This is too much to explain here PM me and ill explain it.
digitised 4 years ago
Because you say it doesn't only means you have been spoon fed the neo-con lie. If you don't think someone being able to pay all their bills and have more left over because they got a 55% raise then you fail to comprehend the concept of disposable income. I don't want a neo-con to explain how it's ok to justify paying one executive 1 M and a average worker $6/hr. I get it, it's corruption and unethical.
TXatheist 4 years ago
People's livelyhood is not a market analysis. If they don't have enough money to live on then you try to help. How? By balancing the corruption in overpaying CEO"s to the average worker. You can't get it through to me because you don't see the problem with the inbalance. That you refuse to see because you are guided by greed and not ethics.
TXatheist 4 years ago
I know how to get quals. Some people aren't scholastic so they don't go to college. Only 1/3 of the US has a college degree. Chances are employers would rather justify paying people as little as possible because rich people don't care about the poor, just making themself rich. I am a degreed accountant making good money. It's not about me, it's about the people I see get shafted time after time in our board meetings.
TXatheist 4 years ago
You simply cannot make people richer by increasing min wage, thats not how economics works.
WalMart is CHEAP, thats your damn break if your wages are low.
If the price of goods DECREASE, its exactly the same as a wage INCREASE. Your purchasing power increases!!
If you choose to turn your nose up due this, then you deserve to lose out.
Sure i hate corporatism, im all for free market economics but at least get your head round the basics of econ, rather than support fallicious policy.
digitised 4 years ago
you can. You raise the standard wage from $7 to $11 and their disposable income just tripled. Walmart is cheap because they have no ethics. Yes, but who has the disposable income when goods go down by 1%? The rich buy more but the poor have very little disposable income/ no benefit. I have more business knowledge than you understand. I work w/ CEO's I despise. they cut headcount to meet expectations instead of reduce their bonus. You think it's not greed to please the rich? Naive
TXatheist 4 years ago
Minimum wage is harmful & does not make anyone better off.
This is economic fact, but its abused by politicians who prey on the ignorance of the mainstream.
increase in costs = increase in prices.
Everything balances out with bigger numbers when the markets adjust.
If firms dont pay much for your time, its because you arent worth it.
CEOs have talent & earn $mn/$bn for firms, high salaries are the result of high demand. They are an investment and earn more than they are paid.
digitised 4 years ago
When it comes to buying you guys want the lowest prices. BUT so do firms, its rational choice to get the best deal when buying anything.
If 3 applicants are all as skilled as each other, you employ the guy who will work for the least.
You wouldnt overcharge yourself.. would you??
You would do the same if you wanted to buy a certain TV, you'd go to 3 shops and get the cheapest deal.
digitised 4 years ago
No, I don't shop Walmart though it's often the lowest. I have ethics unlike most executives and shop based on other than price. 3 skilled people aren't going to break a company with a small salary variance. I'd buy the best value tv. I'm not that cheap or greedy unlike certain unethical americans who would be suited for a true capitalist job, a sweatshop in china for the rest of their life.
TXatheist 4 years ago
It's not balanced when you pay one guy $6/hr and another $600/hr. That's corruption. The problem is the greedy execs decide how much someone is worth by how rich they can make them. They make the rules, not the mainstream. CEO"s have no more talent than me as I work with them daily. They have less ethics and choose to find shortcuts to justify their unethical behavior.
TXatheist 4 years ago
Actually you pay people what they can contribute to the firm, if the CEO doesnt make his money back then he will be dropped because hes a terrible investment.
A burger flipper might earn $40 a day, but he doesnt bring that much to the company.
IF by chance hes absolute magic and makes the shop an extra $1m a year, sure his wages will increase to meet that extra contribution.
digitised 4 years ago
I could simply turn your arguement around.
You say 'why cant businesses pay workers more?'
How about 'why cant consumers pay more for goods?'
The situation is 2 sided, you cannot just stick up for one side. A business is trying to compete and do the best it can, the same as an employee.
Both parties have to agree to benefit, one cannot become slave to the other or it all fails.
digitised 4 years ago
I am with you. People do not want to pay workers. We need a living wage.
RKisHere 4 years ago
Don't forget people who's work is worth less than minimum wage: they'll be barred from competing, and they simply won't get hired.
RussellsParadox 4 years ago
thanks for that clarification. i hear that exact rationalization, all of the time.
marklethanarkle 4 years ago
I hear the same neo-conservative sentiment from some people as well, and that's pretty sad since I live in Canada (I'm not bashing the US, it's just that we're a very liberal country). We've increased the minimum wage here as well, but it is still not enough. Students like me just can't get by without student loans and help from our families.
JDRedstone 4 years ago
I have heard that it is tougher to get into college in Canada.
connerjd 4 years ago