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Such a mood swing, this video. First I want to beat the shit out of the pretentious hippie fuck asking the question. Then Stockhausen starts talking... and he's completely insane.
This is a man who wrote inhumanly ugly music criticizing the dehumanization inherent in contemporary life...a dehumanization that he himself helped cultivate.
bein in understandin in what stockhausen is on about doent make you a nazi. i admit that he is being a little cruel, but he doesnt compromise, he talks truth topolgyrob but emotion can play a part in a system, so wake UP
It is not "futuristic rubbish" or a "pompous answer" that Stockhausen says. One can see what he is trying to say but he certainly does not express himself well and is incoherent. He should have thought out in advance what to say. Boulez in this respect is very much at expressing himself that Stockhausen.
HAHAHAHAHA, this is the most pompous speech I have ever heard.
Stockhausen is right that there are certain "supra-"humans. In the musical sphere, the last of the greatest died in 1827. But Karlheinz ketchup believes himself to be superior and more evolved, of course.
Absolutely astounding that he can hold on to this belief 27 years after WWII and then blame subhumans for causing wars when the belief he espouses was practiced by those who caused the war. Hypocrisy, thy name is Karlheinz.
@haulpartnett Listen again. He did address the questions. He's saying the music isn't dehumanizing because it in fact reflects something fundamentally human - humanity's higher consciousness.
Was he talking of Kubrick's 2001? Supra human? Ubermensch... You know, Nietzsche once said "Justice is based on the fact that we arent all equal"... Now, thats a lot of Nietzsche for a christian! Perhaps from now on every time I listen to Stockhausen my mind will interpolate the Nietszchean airs into the experience!
@fabekuso Yes, I was quite aware he cant like Nietzsche much in a direct manner, I've read he was a christian, and even when he strayed away from it, his concept of 'spirituality' remained a very religious one. Though I hadnt heard of the Urantia book, thanks for the info!
@NevinJarek I must say I don't know how accurately or consistently he reflects the book's teachings. He seems rather eccentric. I can see the influence clearly though. His super-opera Licht was inspired by the Urantia Book, as were other of his pieces. The Book teaches that all people are the children of God and loved by God alike, but not all people are made alike in their nature or have attained the same level of Spirit advancement or personality development.
This is one of the wildest streams of consciousness I have encountered on Youtube , only a guy like this comes up with a piece like Punkte or Trans , weird but fun.
Stockhausen saw himself as a superhuman, born in the stars...the question of the young man "would synthesized music made by machines, on a very complex level, have a chance in the future as an artform, and an audience?"....a very conservative question...Stockhausen only said...you have to be smart and higher your level of conciousness...to get something out of the music...i think he was not very good in communication...in germany he was often misunderstood...
There are those that are SUPRAhuman, eh douchebag? And how is that? The last I heard, each and every human takes a shit, and has the humbling pleasure of wiping his or her own ass. There is a latent potential within virtually all sentient human minds that lends itself toward creativity and expression...the sad thing is that the systematic environment within which those minds are born is sterile, cumbersome, and filled with all manner of obstacles.
@konjunktion26 quit judging on us youths. Your just labeling and pigeon holing us all, we aren't all like that with technology. I understand your views on television, your making a valid point but computers and machines stay well away, you have no idea what you are talking about!
this are young people from the 70s and i see they are thinking and intelligent philosophical.. when i look to our modern youth i just see idiots who listen to mtv and charts... humans got very stupid in the lost 15 years... they lost their brainpower...
@konjunktion26 uh.... well, you seem to forget that they are at Oxford University, they weren't just randomly picked from the street... and what's really stupid is thinking that all of today's youths are idiots, and all of the 70s youths were "intelligent and philosophical": there was a lot of crap in those years too, and there's a lot of interesting stuff going on today
no no no. no! in the past everyone was much more intelligent. today they teens just play world of warcraft while relaxing to a porn. in the past teens were reading nietzsche and hegel. these days they just are interested why snooki had sex with "the situation"!!! all teens need to change and get away from copmputers and away from television they are not with jesus when they enjoy satanic things like south park and radio..
@konjunktion26 There are still many intelligent young people, but they sink to the bottom when it comes to being noticed because the society at large doesn't understand them. Culture got stupid, not people. In turn, the people are becoming stupid to meet the culture face-to-face in order to get a grasp on some reality in face of the complete fragmentation of ideas that's burst out of new technologies (cells etc). It's sad, but intelligence and creativity are still thriving in the undergrowth.
He never says WHY this style of music is the one that corresponds to the superior human, or even gives a solid reason to why we are on the edge of a major change.
I think Stockhausen's mistake is his understanding of "Fortschritt". In fact there have always been individuals who are more "conscious" than others and Kubricks ape is a symbol for millions of years of evolution. Contemporary man probably is not more different to what he will be in thousand years than to what he was thousand years ago. Way too much pathos for someone who prefers the sinewave over the major triad chord.
Well... I respect KS´s intelligence and enjoy his works and thoughts. He was, to put it simply, a GENIUS. One in billions.
But this excerpt is... He was on acid or something? Mumbling, mixing ideas, sounded as if he was creating a sci-fi script (and not an original one) in the moment. Like someone said in another comment, let´s stick to KS´s music and theoretical works. Let us try to understand the reasons wich impulsed his mind.
That,, let me say, is a really difficult task to achieve..
@Roswellsounds:Stockhausen was even stranger when he spoke his native German with a strong Rhinish dialect undertone,which didn´t make it too pleasant to listen to him.He was also erratic acknowledging his own influence on electronic pop avantgarde (he should have been more approving-Holger Czukay of Can was his disciple) +only a few years before his death he made peace with his epigones.His answers in (RARE) interviews have something slightly autistic,which can actually confuse the spectator !
What an unbelievably pompous answer from the Sirius wonder. New age claptrap of the lowest order; a German who went through the second war should know way, way better than this.
@revions If only they did listen to Darwin (what, now you're putting the Nazis next to Darwin!). I was talking about "social darwinism", ie Spencerism, very different from the noble work of Darwin, so badly misunderstood by Stockhausen. The fact that he was a victim of Nazis should have brought him some wisdom - unfortunately he seems to have bought some of the same nonsense that informed them. The audience member's question was not silly - it was, and is, valid. Steiner's Nobel proves nothing.
@richtomes Your comment amazes me, since KS uses the same debating tactics as you always apply in your distasteful 9/11 video. You never answer questions and always insult people that are more informed than you as well.
You mock and insult victims of terrorism or disasters. Do you really think that is a part of the great humanistic tradition and well-mannered behaviour you always refer to?
@richtomes If you only want to annoy people, give them the chance to respond on your own video and don't spoil other peoples channels with your insults and silly jokes.
If you really want to discuss contemporary art, just inform yourself and we can finally start a debate.
I'm not sure whether Stockhausen's answer went completely over my head or Stockhausen did in fact eschew answering that young man's question in favour of reeling off a series of airy academic-sounding soundbites.
I'm not sure Stockhausen's answer went completely over my head or Stockhausen did in fact eschewanswering that young man's question in favour of reeling off a series of airy academic-sounding soundbites.
The young man asks a brilliant question, showing philosophical insight and a deep respect for art as a human means of expression. He in effect answers his own question and it becomes a brilliant criticism modernism.
Stockhausen on the otherhand, is so obsessed with himself and mystical pseudo-realities, that he is not able to even acknowledge the question, effectively avoiding it altogether: He forces the audience to endure his incoherent "concerns", stringing mystical with futuristic rubbish.
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@JonesPeter4 Absolutely. You saved me the effort of trying to write a similar comment. I'll just say I agree with you completely. And that it's a shame that people who work in the humanities put up with this kind of bullshit answer.
The young man is an idiot. I love how Stockhausen essentially called the young man a primate. Turns out Stockhausen was right. Electronic and synthesized music is the most popular and common in the world in 2011. Protools, cds, mp3s are all "synthetic" tools used to communicate music. Is it inhuman that we are communicating via the internet? Stockhausen was correct, it is this kind of fear that creates wars etc. I guess some people don't like feeling left behind.
@JonesPeter4 Do you realize that you're talking about the biggest composer of the second half of the 20th century??? "futuristic rubbish" is think that everybody repons equally to different music.
Besides, there is no way of that question be taken as 'brillant': inicial students of composition does it all the time and there is nothing of 'modernism' about it (even Praetorius wrote about that).
Yeh, that's all very well - but what if he is actually from another planet? Maybe mystical and futuristic rubbish is all we have and rational present isn't all that different from monkey life?
@JonesPeter4 i believe he answered the question. the question is assuming there is a dehumanization in some kinds of art. the answer says there is no dehumanization, only different kinds of human. one thing may appear sterile to you and yet it can touch me on many differente levels, depending on where we are as human beings...
Not able to acknowledge the question? He answers it at (too!) great length.
His basic answer is that music is not being dehumanised, human capacities are evolving.
It's true - musical capacity (one example) varies wildly from one person to the next.
The first part of the question - whether the electronic *production* of music is too dehumanising ever to gain a foothold - has been answered by history. The great majority of music recorded in our century is electronically produced.
@JonesPeter4 haha yer talkin complete and utter fuckin bolocks. LIsten!!! Stockhausen is on the button. we deal day to day with synthesised systems and ipods and mobiles and software. our minds are evolvin. think im neurotic? yer just naive we are becomin something else slowly. can you keep up?
Instead of answering the question, which is about dehumanisation in electronic music, Stockhausen prefers to insult the intelligence of the questioner - to discredit the questioner, rather than addressing the question itself. What unpleasant tactics, and how unevolved !
This is the pot calling the kettle black. Or are you the emperor that isn't wearing any clothes?
You are the one that demonstrates 'primitive tactics of dismissal and insult as a debate strategy. These are exactly the tactics which YOU use on all questioners to avoid the question and the issue raised'
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This is entirely the right place to demonstrate the primitive tactics of dismissal and insult as a debate strategy. These are exactly the tactics which KS uses on the questioner to avoid the question and the issue raised.
Instead of answering the question, Stockhausen evades the issue by dismissing question and questioner, sweeping both into a bucket marked not sufficiently evolved.
@richtomes Maybe you should read the comments people make on your distasteful fundamentalist 9/11 video!
Because you never respond to their comments. You are the one that demonstrates 'primitive tactics of dismissal and insult as a debate strategy. These are exactly the tactics which YOU use on all questioners to avoid the question and the issue raised'
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Melody has been taboo in modern serious music for about 50 years now - this man played his part in bringing about that ridiculous state of affairs. Watch the way that instead of addressing the question raised, Stockhausen simply sweeps questioner and question into a bucket marked not sufficiently evolved. This is the typical approach of the Avante garde mafia who are still in place in so many of the institutions - bullying totalitarianism.
@Technogenic, I ask myself this question. Is 'Nob end' the kind of language one would expect from one who has made that challenging jump from ape to saint ?
It is a shame that a composer so brilliant and influential should propogate such a bigoted worldview. It would seem from this lecture that he is dividing humanity into men and supermen, inferior and superior races, not unlike some of his countrymen did in the 30s and 40s...
Not only that, but the science behind his morally questionable statements is just plain wrong. Evolution is a gradual process that takes place over a vast time scale: it seems highly unlikely that a few select humans will have suddenly started attaining godlike powers to coincide with the late twentieth century revolution in electronic music. Put down the joint, Karlheinz, and have a sit down...
@topologyrob Unfortunately, yes. By that I mean, clearly sometimes (maybe often times) Stockhausen's ego got the better of him, and he continued to pontificate later in his life when perhaps he should have kept the objective curiousity that forged his earliest work in the 50s, rather than exclusively pontificating through the following decades.
Everyone, just listen to his music, not his non-music lectures!
In the late C20th it became fashionable to exclusively validate only new compositions
which rejected traditional musical language and aesthetics. However, many late great 20th century composers did not accept the new values. Their legacy should be validated as well as that of the followers of the late C20th art revolution. The point is equal validation for different concepts of art in modern composition education, instead of a monopoly on maths, shock novelty, ugliness and trauma.
@richtomes i have no problem making this leap, as you have said, because apparently he is a leap away from your so called "tradition". And also, "arse" is a word in a different dialect that stands for "ass", however i doubt you know what dialects are because they probably stray from your language family tree. Also, if stockhausen is not part of your musical family tree don't go sounding all freudian, freud at one time was ridiculed like stockhausen was (he still is sometimes).
@richtomes Also saints are nothing special, many of their existences are debatable as well as their deeds and have nothing to do with human evolution. so this "ape to saint" shit is just you trying to cover your blatant ignorance and sound intelligent, or like you have a point, but we all realize how weak you are, and if you haven't noticed, you are consistently destroyed in every argument i watch you engage in. And by the way, thanks for blocking me. It's nice to know you fear my comments :)
@richtomes Good heavens, i'm appalled by your inability to debate the topic rather than just insult me. Try this, address the topic at hand, place a logical and factually based argument, then sit in silence as other intellectuals rip you apart because you're logic is misguided and you really don't have any facts.
Want to prove me wrong? I bet, so, defeat my arguments, i have, on several occasions, placed many argument only to have you avoid the subject at hand or place misguided logic
@richtomes which i show to be misguided. This is just primordial. O, and i like your attempt to sound proper and educated, when it really just says "I have no argument". So, will you please be a rational human being now, and not cower when logic is presented to you, and accept that you're wrong? Once you accept it you can then fix it, not saying you need to like stockhausen, just that you need to stop being a complete idiot.
@richtomes Some people are put on this earth to create beautiful things. Some people are only able to annoy and people.
And when you notice that some people understand and enjoy contemporary music and art, you simply insult and block them.
You'd almost believe Nobelprizewinner Steiner, that people like you only look like human beings, because you certainly don't talk discuss like a human being.
i work on mine everyday.these guys have probably never listened to hendrix.counciousness of the self is the greatest hinderence to the proper execution of all physical activity
Whatever good Stockhausen may have done by getting people to re-examine the way they listen, he more than undid by validating a whole generation of talentless composition students, via disfuntional composition departments, who's staff hardly need be capable in basic musical skills such as harmony and counterpoint. His legacy is the misguided belief that synthesised rumbling sounds and unusual noises peppered all over some simplistic harmony are somehow profound or valuable musical compositions.
Most people don't have the same profound training and knowledge about tradition like you have (lol)
You should have tried to convince great performers like Rattle, Pollini, Bernstein, Kremer, Boulez, Mutter, Abbado, Gould and many others that they enjoy disfunctional simplistic music that lacks fundamental skills.
I'm surprised that you never wonder yourself who really lacks fundamental musical training.
@richtomes Maybe it stimulates your adrenaline, and inspires you to insult people (that is your only debating strategy), but it doesn't seem to stimulate your brain, since you only mock and insult the people that debate with you.
And when they appear to be smarter than you, you simply copy and paste your old nonsense material. Great tactics for a complete moron.
On your phrase: "His legacy is the misguided belief that synthesised rumbling sounds and unusual noises peppered all over some simplistic harmony are somehow profound or valuable musical compositions."
Could it be that you are in fact a member of the portion of humans Stockhausen is referring to in this video; those unable to articulate, evolve, etc., & consider "synthesised rumbling sounds and unusual noises" as dehumanised, as opposed to the sound of new human understanding?
But seriously, Stockhausen (though I'm not a huge fan) clearly thought a great deal about music/sound. Sound, in and of itself, has no meaning. Any meaning associated with sound is human-made, arrived at through thought. Since Stockhausen thought so extensively, he came to find immense meanings in the most subtle and strange sounds. This speaks toward great profundity, and the only question is: Are we willing to follow the depths of his thinking?
@neonRobba You mean you're buying this social darwinist dreck?? So the response to someone who doesn't like your music is to call them subhuman? I mean, can anyone believe this?
@topologyrob This stems from my earlier exchange with another (I forget their name!), but it's not about 'like'. If someone doesn't like my music, OK. It's a matter of the criticisms the other person made about Stockhausen's music, to which I attempted to reply that perhaps they weren't thinking objectively about sound to the point that their subjective thoughts no longer tainted their attempts at discussion. Perhaps this is what Stock is referring to. No I don't buy his theory about evolution.
@richtomes holy crap you are a nob end. In one statement you say complexity does not equal profundity, yet here you are implying that harmonic complexity is artistically more meaningful that other forms of sonic expression. The reason your tradition is dying is because it is populated by stuck up, pretentious, bourgois arseholes like you. Propagating this kind of elitist nonsense is doing your cause a disservice.
asshole should be spelled without an r, and I'm afraid that 'nob end' isn't in the dictionary. Many thanks however for your stimulating conversation, and congratulations on your level of evolution !
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holy fuck, this is quite a rant, and he managed to avoid answering the question, I would have rather heard him talk about music, that's when he starts making sense, not that I have a probelm with Sri Aurobindo, he just doesn't explain it very well.
@richtomes Okay, you want composers to be entertainers! LOL That is why you prefer the song ' there is no business like showbusiness' above the masterpieces of the 2nd half of the 20th century. But to be an entertainer is the opposite of what Bach, Beethoven, Berlioz, Wagner, Messiaen, Stravinsky, KS, Nono (and so on) wanted to be! They had all a higher mission.
@richtomes yes, I can imagine that being confronted with a copy of your own opinion, you see that they are written by a fool (or in this variation: a halfwit) LOL
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dear revions - get some musical training - try to create something of your own - you may eventually start to become less bitter, and begin to evolve from ape to saint this way, though not necessarily. They all look human, more or less, but...
@revions There are few higher missions than humour (fortunately Stockhausen had a bit of that, when he got away from his stuck-up-his-own-arse narcissism)
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rose21183 1 month ago
Such a mood swing, this video. First I want to beat the shit out of the pretentious hippie fuck asking the question. Then Stockhausen starts talking... and he's completely insane.
TheRealLordRama 1 month ago
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10 justin bieber and 10 stockhausen song at the same time
/watch?v=xTiwpr7gcP8
andrewillis21 1 month ago
acient aliens
pendelum5 1 month ago
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so, he's a nazi
rhinonose 1 month ago
BRILLIANT
Cleekschrey 2 months ago
The guy asking the question: jackass.
Stockhausen: badass.
Cleekschrey 2 months ago
Anm example of 20th Century Western culture shoving itself up its own arse.
This man is cunt.
UnkleFessta 2 months ago
Comment removed
mmlight 2 months ago
@mmlight dude. he had two wives.
Cleekschrey 2 months ago
@Cleekschrey He had more than that, but each hated his music more than the last..
mmlight 2 months ago
This is a man who wrote inhumanly ugly music criticizing the dehumanization inherent in contemporary life...a dehumanization that he himself helped cultivate.
I'm glad Stockhausen is dead.
KhagarBalugrak 2 months ago
@KhagarBalugrak WHAT
Cleekschrey 2 months ago
bein in understandin in what stockhausen is on about doent make you a nazi. i admit that he is being a little cruel, but he doesnt compromise, he talks truth topolgyrob but emotion can play a part in a system, so wake UP
HereThereAndNowhere 3 months ago
It is not "futuristic rubbish" or a "pompous answer" that Stockhausen says. One can see what he is trying to say but he certainly does not express himself well and is incoherent. He should have thought out in advance what to say. Boulez in this respect is very much at expressing himself that Stockhausen.
ComtedeMonteC 4 months ago
HAHAHAHAHA, this is the most pompous speech I have ever heard.
Stockhausen is right that there are certain "supra-"humans. In the musical sphere, the last of the greatest died in 1827. But Karlheinz ketchup believes himself to be superior and more evolved, of course.
Absolutely astounding that he can hold on to this belief 27 years after WWII and then blame subhumans for causing wars when the belief he espouses was practiced by those who caused the war. Hypocrisy, thy name is Karlheinz.
MaestroTJS 6 months ago
A rare and beautiful intelligence...
xenakis9 9 months ago
wow. stockhausen is full of shit. imagine having to sit through a full lecture of this. he didn't even address the 2 questions
haulpartnett 9 months ago
@haulpartnett Listen again. He did address the questions. He's saying the music isn't dehumanizing because it in fact reflects something fundamentally human - humanity's higher consciousness.
Manwithcam 7 months ago 9
@haulpartnett Though I'll admit he does tend to ramble a bit.
Manwithcam 7 months ago
Was he talking of Kubrick's 2001? Supra human? Ubermensch... You know, Nietzsche once said "Justice is based on the fact that we arent all equal"... Now, thats a lot of Nietzsche for a christian! Perhaps from now on every time I listen to Stockhausen my mind will interpolate the Nietszchean airs into the experience!
NevinJarek 11 months ago
@NevinJarek No he was influenced by The Urantia Book
fabekuso 11 months ago
@fabekuso Yes, I was quite aware he cant like Nietzsche much in a direct manner, I've read he was a christian, and even when he strayed away from it, his concept of 'spirituality' remained a very religious one. Though I hadnt heard of the Urantia book, thanks for the info!
NevinJarek 11 months ago
@NevinJarek I must say I don't know how accurately or consistently he reflects the book's teachings. He seems rather eccentric. I can see the influence clearly though. His super-opera Licht was inspired by the Urantia Book, as were other of his pieces. The Book teaches that all people are the children of God and loved by God alike, but not all people are made alike in their nature or have attained the same level of Spirit advancement or personality development.
fabekuso 11 months ago
@NevinJarek The Urantia Book is the 5th Epochal Revelation of Truth to our planet.... God speed...
fabekuso 11 months ago
This is one of the wildest streams of consciousness I have encountered on Youtube , only a guy like this comes up with a piece like Punkte or Trans , weird but fun.
FenderRhodesService 11 months ago
Yeah , well the gesture he makes at 7:39 is so funny , I must like this guy , I really like his orchestral pieces
FenderRhodesService 1 year ago
Stockhausen saw himself as a superhuman, born in the stars...the question of the young man "would synthesized music made by machines, on a very complex level, have a chance in the future as an artform, and an audience?"....a very conservative question...Stockhausen only said...you have to be smart and higher your level of conciousness...to get something out of the music...i think he was not very good in communication...in germany he was often misunderstood...
RainMainDein 1 year ago
Great question...and a SHIT answer.
There are those that are SUPRAhuman, eh douchebag? And how is that? The last I heard, each and every human takes a shit, and has the humbling pleasure of wiping his or her own ass. There is a latent potential within virtually all sentient human minds that lends itself toward creativity and expression...the sad thing is that the systematic environment within which those minds are born is sterile, cumbersome, and filled with all manner of obstacles.
TheDreamMechanic 1 year ago
very interesting!
jazz1bro 1 year ago
LSD is one hell of a drug...
pure07 1 year ago 2
@konjunktion26 quit judging on us youths. Your just labeling and pigeon holing us all, we aren't all like that with technology. I understand your views on television, your making a valid point but computers and machines stay well away, you have no idea what you are talking about!
WJAYP 1 year ago
the present will always be better than the past because of the extra knowledge gathered since the past
present > past
Sadsic 1 year ago
this are young people from the 70s and i see they are thinking and intelligent philosophical.. when i look to our modern youth i just see idiots who listen to mtv and charts... humans got very stupid in the lost 15 years... they lost their brainpower...
konjunktion26 1 year ago 5
@konjunktion26 uh.... well, you seem to forget that they are at Oxford University, they weren't just randomly picked from the street... and what's really stupid is thinking that all of today's youths are idiots, and all of the 70s youths were "intelligent and philosophical": there was a lot of crap in those years too, and there's a lot of interesting stuff going on today
Thrash0Jazz0Assassin 1 year ago
@Thrash0Jazz0Assassin
no no no. no! in the past everyone was much more intelligent. today they teens just play world of warcraft while relaxing to a porn. in the past teens were reading nietzsche and hegel. these days they just are interested why snooki had sex with "the situation"!!! all teens need to change and get away from copmputers and away from television they are not with jesus when they enjoy satanic things like south park and radio..
konjunktion26 1 year ago
@konjunktion26 There are still many intelligent young people, but they sink to the bottom when it comes to being noticed because the society at large doesn't understand them. Culture got stupid, not people. In turn, the people are becoming stupid to meet the culture face-to-face in order to get a grasp on some reality in face of the complete fragmentation of ideas that's burst out of new technologies (cells etc). It's sad, but intelligence and creativity are still thriving in the undergrowth.
Manwithcam 7 months ago 2
"Bais chuman concerns: love, hate... this kind of things..." hahaha what a nerd (not Stockhousen)
JorgeOrpinel 1 year ago
Genius is specific and Stockhausen's was for music and sound, not philosophy or anthropology.
Iightmachine 1 year ago
whats he going on about ?
createmyweb 1 year ago
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createmyweb 1 year ago
So is he saying if you don't like his music you're a dumb animal?
ggn1 1 year ago 2
Genius
xmfdibujito 1 year ago
So he was into eugenics. No wonder, his music sounds like "I'm posessed".
EskolainenKarma 1 year ago
He never says WHY this style of music is the one that corresponds to the superior human, or even gives a solid reason to why we are on the edge of a major change.
lupuspglh 1 year ago
This is a wonderfully funny (and unintentional) expose of KS as pseudo-intellectual snake-oil salesman.
fremsley001 1 year ago
I think Stockhausen's mistake is his understanding of "Fortschritt". In fact there have always been individuals who are more "conscious" than others and Kubricks ape is a symbol for millions of years of evolution. Contemporary man probably is not more different to what he will be in thousand years than to what he was thousand years ago. Way too much pathos for someone who prefers the sinewave over the major triad chord.
arcmarc74 1 year ago
Well... I respect KS´s intelligence and enjoy his works and thoughts. He was, to put it simply, a GENIUS. One in billions.
But this excerpt is... He was on acid or something? Mumbling, mixing ideas, sounded as if he was creating a sci-fi script (and not an original one) in the moment. Like someone said in another comment, let´s stick to KS´s music and theoretical works. Let us try to understand the reasons wich impulsed his mind.
That,, let me say, is a really difficult task to achieve..
Roswellsounds 1 year ago
@Roswellsounds:Stockhausen was even stranger when he spoke his native German with a strong Rhinish dialect undertone,which didn´t make it too pleasant to listen to him.He was also erratic acknowledging his own influence on electronic pop avantgarde (he should have been more approving-Holger Czukay of Can was his disciple) +only a few years before his death he made peace with his epigones.His answers in (RARE) interviews have something slightly autistic,which can actually confuse the spectator !
MrSKINFLICK 1 year ago
What a twit.
edbingey 1 year ago
who is Stockhausen talking about on the 2:52?
liszt100 1 year ago
@liszt100
I think he's talking about Aurobindo Ghose (Sri Aurobindo)
arcmarc74 1 year ago
@roparre Not everyone understands Elvis either, particularly KS worshippers
topologyrob 1 year ago
What an unbelievably pompous answer from the Sirius wonder. New age claptrap of the lowest order; a German who went through the second war should know way, way better than this.
topologyrob 1 year ago 29
@topologyrob Well, the silly question of this guy certainly deserved a silly answer, don't you think?
You are talking about a composer who as an adolescent has lost both his parents because of the Nazis.
Don't forget he is quoting a Nobelprize-winner and Sri Aurobindo and not some 'pseudoscience darwinist dreck'!
Please inform yourself about the differences of their ideas and those of Nazis or Darwin.
revions 1 year ago
@revions If only they did listen to Darwin (what, now you're putting the Nazis next to Darwin!). I was talking about "social darwinism", ie Spencerism, very different from the noble work of Darwin, so badly misunderstood by Stockhausen. The fact that he was a victim of Nazis should have brought him some wisdom - unfortunately he seems to have bought some of the same nonsense that informed them. The audience member's question was not silly - it was, and is, valid. Steiner's Nobel proves nothing.
topologyrob 1 year ago
@topologyrob well said.
RuneMasterJon 1 year ago
@topologyrob He doesn't really think he was born on Sirius, it's a joke you moron.
rlevanony 6 months ago
@rlevanony Um, I think you'll find he was serious (but why I bother to reply to someone so rude as to call me a moron I'm not sure)
topologyrob 6 months ago
ayn rand much? is it just me?
maeyi 1 year ago
I think T-Pain is one of Stockhausen's evolved Übermenschen. He sings in sin-waves.
pricejosephd 1 year ago 3
Conversations on music will never be this intriguing again...
JRR951 1 year ago
Why doesn't he answer the question instead of just trying to insult the questioner ?
richtomes 1 year ago
@richtomes Your comment amazes me, since KS uses the same debating tactics as you always apply in your distasteful 9/11 video. You never answer questions and always insult people that are more informed than you as well.
You mock and insult victims of terrorism or disasters. Do you really think that is a part of the great humanistic tradition and well-mannered behaviour you always refer to?
revions 1 year ago 5
@revions Twist and turn, truth and beauty outlast all misrepresentation
richtomes 1 year ago
@richtomes If you only want to annoy people, give them the chance to respond on your own video and don't spoil other peoples channels with your insults and silly jokes.
If you really want to discuss contemporary art, just inform yourself and we can finally start a debate.
revions 1 year ago 2
@revions 14 thumbs up - LOL
richtomes 9 months ago
@richtomes 17 thumps up - LOL
Bagas 8 months ago
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@Bagas - all those thumbs belong to revions
richtomes 8 months ago
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I'm not sure whether Stockhausen's answer went completely over my head or Stockhausen did in fact eschew answering that young man's question in favour of reeling off a series of airy academic-sounding soundbites.
indiebopper 1 year ago
I'm not sure Stockhausen's answer went completely over my head or Stockhausen did in fact eschewanswering that young man's question in favour of reeling off a series of airy academic-sounding soundbites.
indiebopper 1 year ago
The young man asks a brilliant question, showing philosophical insight and a deep respect for art as a human means of expression. He in effect answers his own question and it becomes a brilliant criticism modernism.
Stockhausen on the otherhand, is so obsessed with himself and mystical pseudo-realities, that he is not able to even acknowledge the question, effectively avoiding it altogether: He forces the audience to endure his incoherent "concerns", stringing mystical with futuristic rubbish.
JonesPeter4 1 year ago 43
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@JonesPeter4 Absolutely. You saved me the effort of trying to write a similar comment. I'll just say I agree with you completely. And that it's a shame that people who work in the humanities put up with this kind of bullshit answer.
BaubleRob 1 year ago
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@JonesPeter4 Well Said !
richtomes 1 year ago
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t0nk0n 1 year ago 2
@JonesPeter4 sir i totally agree with you...i really like stockhausen's music the sounds and everything...but i just don't like him....
greece1992bill 6 months ago
@JonesPeter4
The young man is an idiot. I love how Stockhausen essentially called the young man a primate. Turns out Stockhausen was right. Electronic and synthesized music is the most popular and common in the world in 2011. Protools, cds, mp3s are all "synthetic" tools used to communicate music. Is it inhuman that we are communicating via the internet? Stockhausen was correct, it is this kind of fear that creates wars etc. I guess some people don't like feeling left behind.
dahlstausa 6 months ago
@JonesPeter4 Do you realize that you're talking about the biggest composer of the second half of the 20th century??? "futuristic rubbish" is think that everybody repons equally to different music.
Besides, there is no way of that question be taken as 'brillant': inicial students of composition does it all the time and there is nothing of 'modernism' about it (even Praetorius wrote about that).
marxBroArg 5 months ago
@JonesPeter4
Yeh, that's all very well - but what if he is actually from another planet? Maybe mystical and futuristic rubbish is all we have and rational present isn't all that different from monkey life?
bbunuel 3 months ago
@JonesPeter4 i believe he answered the question. the question is assuming there is a dehumanization in some kinds of art. the answer says there is no dehumanization, only different kinds of human. one thing may appear sterile to you and yet it can touch me on many differente levels, depending on where we are as human beings...
hdbtv2007 3 months ago
@JonesPeter4
Not able to acknowledge the question? He answers it at (too!) great length.
His basic answer is that music is not being dehumanised, human capacities are evolving.
It's true - musical capacity (one example) varies wildly from one person to the next.
The first part of the question - whether the electronic *production* of music is too dehumanising ever to gain a foothold - has been answered by history. The great majority of music recorded in our century is electronically produced.
roquefort88888 3 months ago
@JonesPeter4 haha yer talkin complete and utter fuckin bolocks. LIsten!!! Stockhausen is on the button. we deal day to day with synthesised systems and ipods and mobiles and software. our minds are evolvin. think im neurotic? yer just naive we are becomin something else slowly. can you keep up?
HereThereAndNowhere 3 months ago
can anyone please tell me where i can get a copy of the complete debate ?
rokderboat 1 year ago
@rokderboat I just put the link in the info.
golfthewlis 1 year ago
Instead of answering the question, which is about dehumanisation in electronic music, Stockhausen prefers to insult the intelligence of the questioner - to discredit the questioner, rather than addressing the question itself. What unpleasant tactics, and how unevolved !
richtomes 1 year ago
@richtomes
This is the pot calling the kettle black. Or are you the emperor that isn't wearing any clothes?
You are the one that demonstrates 'primitive tactics of dismissal and insult as a debate strategy. These are exactly the tactics which YOU use on all questioners to avoid the question and the issue raised'
Inform yourself, Mr. Pot
revions 1 year ago 2
He should really have stuck to speaking about music. Rambling on about some unintelligible social theory is really boring and cooky.
edgardomoreno 1 year ago
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This is entirely the right place to demonstrate the primitive tactics of dismissal and insult as a debate strategy. These are exactly the tactics which KS uses on the questioner to avoid the question and the issue raised.
richtomes 1 year ago
Instead of answering the question, Stockhausen evades the issue by dismissing question and questioner, sweeping both into a bucket marked not sufficiently evolved.
richtomes 1 year ago
@richtomes Maybe you should read the comments people make on your distasteful fundamentalist 9/11 video!
Because you never respond to their comments. You are the one that demonstrates 'primitive tactics of dismissal and insult as a debate strategy. These are exactly the tactics which YOU use on all questioners to avoid the question and the issue raised'
Inform yourself.
revions 1 year ago 2
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Melody has been taboo in modern serious music for about 50 years now - this man played his part in bringing about that ridiculous state of affairs. Watch the way that instead of addressing the question raised, Stockhausen simply sweeps questioner and question into a bucket marked not sufficiently evolved. This is the typical approach of the Avante garde mafia who are still in place in so many of the institutions - bullying totalitarianism.
richtomes 1 year ago
@Technogenic, I ask myself this question. Is 'Nob end' the kind of language one would expect from one who has made that challenging jump from ape to saint ?
richtomes 1 year ago
It is a shame that a composer so brilliant and influential should propogate such a bigoted worldview. It would seem from this lecture that he is dividing humanity into men and supermen, inferior and superior races, not unlike some of his countrymen did in the 30s and 40s...
autumnspiders 1 year ago 2
@autumnspiders
Not only that, but the science behind his morally questionable statements is just plain wrong. Evolution is a gradual process that takes place over a vast time scale: it seems highly unlikely that a few select humans will have suddenly started attaining godlike powers to coincide with the late twentieth century revolution in electronic music. Put down the joint, Karlheinz, and have a sit down...
autumnspiders 1 year ago
Quite profound.
britandveg 1 year ago 4
@britandveg How? Isn't it just prattishness and egomania disguised in pseudoscience of the worsts kind?
topologyrob 1 year ago 18
@topologyrob Unfortunately, yes. By that I mean, clearly sometimes (maybe often times) Stockhausen's ego got the better of him, and he continued to pontificate later in his life when perhaps he should have kept the objective curiousity that forged his earliest work in the 50s, rather than exclusively pontificating through the following decades.
Everyone, just listen to his music, not his non-music lectures!
:-)
neonRobba 1 year ago
@neonRobba Good advice - the music (especially the early stuff) is worth attention.
topologyrob 1 year ago
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In the late C20th it became fashionable to exclusively validate only new compositions
which rejected traditional musical language and aesthetics. However, many late great 20th century composers did not accept the new values. Their legacy should be validated as well as that of the followers of the late C20th art revolution. The point is equal validation for different concepts of art in modern composition education, instead of a monopoly on maths, shock novelty, ugliness and trauma.
richtomes 1 year ago
@richtomes You truly are retarded, aren't you?
nvbaileys 1 year ago 3
@nvbaileys such aggression ! Perhaps your anger is really just the subconcious fear of not being able to make that challenging jump from ape to saint
richtomes 1 year ago
@richtomes i have no problem making this leap, as you have said, because apparently he is a leap away from your so called "tradition". And also, "arse" is a word in a different dialect that stands for "ass", however i doubt you know what dialects are because they probably stray from your language family tree. Also, if stockhausen is not part of your musical family tree don't go sounding all freudian, freud at one time was ridiculed like stockhausen was (he still is sometimes).
nvbaileys 1 year ago 4
@richtomes Also saints are nothing special, many of their existences are debatable as well as their deeds and have nothing to do with human evolution. so this "ape to saint" shit is just you trying to cover your blatant ignorance and sound intelligent, or like you have a point, but we all realize how weak you are, and if you haven't noticed, you are consistently destroyed in every argument i watch you engage in. And by the way, thanks for blocking me. It's nice to know you fear my comments :)
nvbaileys 1 year ago 2
@nvbaileys good heavens, I'm appalled at your level of evolution - please try harder - this is just stone age
richtomes 1 year ago
@richtomes Good heavens, i'm appalled by your inability to debate the topic rather than just insult me. Try this, address the topic at hand, place a logical and factually based argument, then sit in silence as other intellectuals rip you apart because you're logic is misguided and you really don't have any facts.
Want to prove me wrong? I bet, so, defeat my arguments, i have, on several occasions, placed many argument only to have you avoid the subject at hand or place misguided logic
nvbaileys 1 year ago 3
@richtomes which i show to be misguided. This is just primordial. O, and i like your attempt to sound proper and educated, when it really just says "I have no argument". So, will you please be a rational human being now, and not cower when logic is presented to you, and accept that you're wrong? Once you accept it you can then fix it, not saying you need to like stockhausen, just that you need to stop being a complete idiot.
nvbaileys 1 year ago 3
@richtomes Some people are put on this earth to create beautiful things. Some people are only able to annoy and people.
And when you notice that some people understand and enjoy contemporary music and art, you simply insult and block them.
You'd almost believe Nobelprizewinner Steiner, that people like you only look like human beings, because you certainly don't talk discuss like a human being.
revions 1 year ago 2
i work on mine everyday.these guys have probably never listened to hendrix.counciousness of the self is the greatest hinderence to the proper execution of all physical activity
ninjafretshadow 1 year ago
Whatever good Stockhausen may have done by getting people to re-examine the way they listen, he more than undid by validating a whole generation of talentless composition students, via disfuntional composition departments, who's staff hardly need be capable in basic musical skills such as harmony and counterpoint. His legacy is the misguided belief that synthesised rumbling sounds and unusual noises peppered all over some simplistic harmony are somehow profound or valuable musical compositions.
richtomes 1 year ago
@richtomes
\
Most people don't have the same profound training and knowledge about tradition like you have (lol)
You should have tried to convince great performers like Rattle, Pollini, Bernstein, Kremer, Boulez, Mutter, Abbado, Gould and many others that they enjoy disfunctional simplistic music that lacks fundamental skills.
I'm surprised that you never wonder yourself who really lacks fundamental musical training.
revions 1 year ago 5
you are such a dick, your 9/11 vid was a massive waste of your time and my time. Give it up.
gazmueller 1 year ago 5
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It's rude to say dick.
richtomes 1 year ago
@richtomes if it is rude to say dick, it is even more rude to mock victims of the titanic or 9/11
since you don't understand polite and normal human behaviour, we have to agree with Steiner on human evolution
since you aren't able to understand the comments on your video, we have to agree with Steiner on human evolution
annedegro 1 year ago 3
I disagree
richtomes 1 year ago
@richtomes - it's rude to say asshole, and anyway it is spelled without the R.
richtomes 1 year ago
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@gazmueller on the contrary, it's a very stimulating debate
richtomes 1 year ago
@richtomes Maybe it stimulates your adrenaline, and inspires you to insult people (that is your only debating strategy), but it doesn't seem to stimulate your brain, since you only mock and insult the people that debate with you.
And when they appear to be smarter than you, you simply copy and paste your old nonsense material. Great tactics for a complete moron.
And maybe worse of all:
You never inform yourself.
revions 1 year ago 2
@richtomes
On your phrase: "His legacy is the misguided belief that synthesised rumbling sounds and unusual noises peppered all over some simplistic harmony are somehow profound or valuable musical compositions."
Could it be that you are in fact a member of the portion of humans Stockhausen is referring to in this video; those unable to articulate, evolve, etc., & consider "synthesised rumbling sounds and unusual noises" as dehumanised, as opposed to the sound of new human understanding?
neonRobba 1 year ago 5
If it means evolving into a musical halfwit then yes, I am
richtomes 1 year ago
then I guess that would make you what, ... a musical quarterwit?
neonRobba 1 year ago 5
@neonRobba
OK that was silly, I admit! ;-)
But seriously, Stockhausen (though I'm not a huge fan) clearly thought a great deal about music/sound. Sound, in and of itself, has no meaning. Any meaning associated with sound is human-made, arrived at through thought. Since Stockhausen thought so extensively, he came to find immense meanings in the most subtle and strange sounds. This speaks toward great profundity, and the only question is: Are we willing to follow the depths of his thinking?
neonRobba 1 year ago 5
Thinking a lot doesn't necessarily produce anything worthwhile. Complexity is not profundity.
richtomes 1 year ago
@richtomes
who said complexity was profundity? Not me, not stockhausen. Stay on topic.
Nonetheless, you've not struck down my previous statements.
Thanks very much! All the best.
neonRobba 1 year ago 4
@richtomes not thinking, not reading what others have to say and therefor not communicating produces nothing more worthwhile
you aren't able to understand the people that criticize your comments
simplicity is not profundity either
annedegro 1 year ago
@richtomes Maybe not, but it is intellectualism which to many is "profoundity". (which isn't a real word by the way.)
nvbaileys 1 year ago 4
profundity
richtomes 1 year ago
@neonRobba You mean you're buying this social darwinist dreck?? So the response to someone who doesn't like your music is to call them subhuman? I mean, can anyone believe this?
topologyrob 1 year ago
@topologyrob This stems from my earlier exchange with another (I forget their name!), but it's not about 'like'. If someone doesn't like my music, OK. It's a matter of the criticisms the other person made about Stockhausen's music, to which I attempted to reply that perhaps they weren't thinking objectively about sound to the point that their subjective thoughts no longer tainted their attempts at discussion. Perhaps this is what Stock is referring to. No I don't buy his theory about evolution.
neonRobba 1 year ago
@richtomes If you think it's talentless than break down and analyze one of his pieces, then perform it note for note.
nvbaileys 1 year ago 5
@richtomes holy crap you are a nob end. In one statement you say complexity does not equal profundity, yet here you are implying that harmonic complexity is artistically more meaningful that other forms of sonic expression. The reason your tradition is dying is because it is populated by stuck up, pretentious, bourgois arseholes like you. Propagating this kind of elitist nonsense is doing your cause a disservice.
Technogenic 1 year ago
asshole should be spelled without an r, and I'm afraid that 'nob end' isn't in the dictionary. Many thanks however for your stimulating conversation, and congratulations on your level of evolution !
richtomes 1 year ago
@richtomes arsehole.
Technogenic 1 year ago
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revions 2 years ago
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Fool
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revions 2 years ago
bien dit !
eniotna374 2 years ago 6
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holy fuck, this is quite a rant, and he managed to avoid answering the question, I would have rather heard him talk about music, that's when he starts making sense, not that I have a probelm with Sri Aurobindo, he just doesn't explain it very well.
digimaton 2 years ago
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Music ? Sense ? Stockhausen ? I don't think so.
richtomes 2 years ago
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revions 2 years ago
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Better than not listening
richtomes 2 years ago
@richtomes Okay, you want composers to be entertainers! LOL That is why you prefer the song ' there is no business like showbusiness' above the masterpieces of the 2nd half of the 20th century. But to be an entertainer is the opposite of what Bach, Beethoven, Berlioz, Wagner, Messiaen, Stravinsky, KS, Nono (and so on) wanted to be! They had all a higher mission.
revions 2 years ago
halfwit
richtomes 2 years ago
@richtomes yes, I can imagine that being confronted with a copy of your own opinion, you see that they are written by a fool (or in this variation: a halfwit) LOL
revions 2 years ago
fool
richtomes 2 years ago
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@richtomes
revions 2 years ago
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You don't need any musical ability to theorise and criticise - why not create something of your own ?
richtomes 2 years ago
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revions 2 years ago 5
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musical abilities lol
richtomes 2 years ago
@richtomes What do you think of somebody that doesn't enjoy the musical abilities of Rattle, Kremer, Pollini?
revions 2 years ago 5
@richtomes So everybody that has the same musical abilities as you have, know what tradition is about?
And everybody that has more musical abilities (Kremer, Rattle, Pollini, Mutter) doesn't understand the true roots of tradition?
This is so entertaining, that I can't get bitter LOL
And that is what the true tradition is about, you wrote: to entertain
revions 2 years ago 5
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dear revions - get some musical training - try to create something of your own - you may eventually start to become less bitter, and begin to evolve from ape to saint this way, though not necessarily. They all look human, more or less, but...
richtomes 2 years ago
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@richtomes Again you avoid a question directed to you. I thought you said that anybody can theorise. So why can't you?
What would you think of somebody that doesn't enjoy the musical abilities of Rattle, Kremer, Pollini?
That isn't a too difficult question, I'd think
revions 2 years ago
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richtomes 2 years ago
@revions There are few higher missions than humour (fortunately Stockhausen had a bit of that, when he got away from his stuck-up-his-own-arse narcissism)
topologyrob 1 year ago
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revions 2 years ago