What Red Tails Exposes about the Black Thought Process

[sslim29205]

How about a popcorn movie about Anne Frank.

[aloge]

black businesses have a hard time in producing good products with good service etc., because black people dont support each other. If we don't support each other, who will? Slave mentality to keep begging white people to not only fund our businesses but to also give us a job when we want to be a worker ... Slavery taught us how to not take care of ourselves and depend on white people even when we think we're trying to be independent and do for self... we need to truly do for self.. as a group.

[aloge]

slave mentality tryin to please massa, crab in the bucket towards each other. let this be a tyler perry movie people would talk wild shit about it from the beginning of promotion let alone it being in the actual theater

[Mhendeb]

cont-

Where was this outrage when 300 came out? And so many other films that show BM as savages that need to be murdered by heroic WM?

Red Tails, regardless of acting strength, shows BM kicking Nazi ass, something you do not see often in theaters, which is why BF;s are reacting negatively. It goes against the programming and that's a darn shame.

They made a Black Panther and Blade animated series, but they won't bring it to the United States. Now I see why, and it's not because of WP.

[Mhendeb]

cont-

A Black Man directed the film, George Lucas produced it. I agree with the "Thank you Massa" mindset of some of the defenders. But my point is, be consistent.

BW bitching about Red Tails because of an interracial relationship are hypocrites, because if this film was about WM pilots and one of them was with a BW, BW would praise the film, go see it, and use it as proof that WM desire them. As far as BM? Where was this outrage when Black Hawk Down came out?

[Mhendeb]

I don't have a problem with Black People criticizing Red Tails. What I have a problem with is the hypocrisy.

The Help? No major Black complains.

Precious? No major Black complains.

The Blind Side? No major Black complains.

And those are recent examples.

Red Tails? Whining about interracial relationships and film depth? Sorry, I don't accept that.

Look at this latest film with Queen Latifah. It features an interracial relationship with a WB and a BG. Where is the outrage there?

[ray1411]

@Mhendeb Right on my dude! No complaints! Motherfuckers love depressing shit. Its like theyre programmed to be victims or something.

[ginome68]

This is my first response post. Go easy on me. Consider exactly who the audience of this movie was supposed to be... If you thought is was Black children, think again.

[ray1411]

Nigga, arent you African. And I dont mean third or fourth generation, I mean first generation--mama and daddy was fresh off the boat. Now, of course you can share your opinion, but there are limits on how receptive some people should be. Look, Im sick of non-native (i.e., Africans or West Indian), or even non-self-identifying blacks (i.e., Dominicans), trying to comment on the BLK experience in America without any generational experience. I say chillout, critique, and let the film make money.

[ghost2101]

@ray1411

i understand what u were sayin and most black immigrants cant talk about what happened in the US prior to 1970-1980 but as far as today.........black immigrants are mixed in and in the "trenches" just as much as most blacks in the US...many of us are working class and many of us live in the black ghettos and working class areas and get mixed in with most of the day to day struggles of being black in the US....heck (to be cont)

[ray1411]

Im a child of a BLK immigrant, and I understand many BLK immigrants are quite knowledgeable on state of the US. However, their views are usually tainted by a preconceived idea of America. You know, the "land of the free," "home of the brave" ideals. And then they come here to discover, yes, its a great country, but, no, theres more than meets the eye. And what do they do? They pass down their disappointment mixed with a partial understanding of BLK natives, and how to aovid their fate--hopefully

[ray1411]

Then, their children live here, growing up and learning more than their parents, by reading history and watching movies. But most, if not all, hardly ever take the BLK natives account too seriously. You know why? Because they think "Ive achieved more than broke and 'educated' ass, what can you tell me?" Yes, its their right. But, how can you know more than a people whove dealt with this for generations? Thats like us coming to your country and disregarding your input. Its doesnt make sense.

[ghost2101]

@ray1411

"But most, if not all, hardly ever take the BLK natives account too seriously. You know why? Because they think "Ive achieved more than broke and 'educated' ass, what can you tell me?" maybe YOU didnt take them seriously......if u really are from an immigrant family like u say u are.....

[ray1411]

Yes, I am from an immigrant family. Shit, I have dual citizenship--in two Central American countries. Dont try to deflect to downplay my point. You know many BLK immigrants, especially Africans, do not take native BLKs input too seriously. How do I know? I grew up with Africans in CA, and I had many a discussion on the BLK experience in America. And nearly every time my information was disregarded. But, you know what? Many came to light years later, that is, after they experienced failure.

[ghost2101]

@ray1411

a lot of africans i hate to say can b madd arrogant about shit (not to say its unique to them)....also in the story of blk ppl worldwide africans are unique in this equation cuz most west africans never knew slavery outside of being a POW......and theres some other important shit i said about them........reread everyting i wrote to u before u respond anymore...

[ray1411]

So, they have all this knowledge without any real fieldwork. And their firsthand accounts come from this "working class" experience, not a broad expansive experience. They take all this knowledge and commence to condemning the US. But, you know what? They complain no different from BLK natives, but they have some home country to run back to, while their instigating shit. BLK natives do not have any other place. We dont have the luxury of looking at our nation with rosey shaded glasses.

[ghost2101]

@ray1411

wth u mean by field work? the blk experience is indeed broad and many blk americans themselves are not aware of this....yea im a foreigner who grew up here but i kno for a fact that the blk american experience is so long detailed and broad it might as well be its own damn universe.......some have a country to go back to, some dont........I know haitians that never went back to haiti cuz its so goddamn dangerous......i know other islanders who....

[ray1411]

Yes, fieldwork. You know, lexperience BLK people of all classes, not just middle class BLKs. And, you know what? This phenomenon is not restricted to BLK foreigners, as many BLKs in who live in rural areas dont have a wide range of experience with other BLKs. The kind of BLKs Im referring are the Armstrong Williams type. I know all BLK immigrants dont have a homeland to go back to, but a majority have a choice. Haitians are a special case, as they claimed asylum and are scared of Haitis poverty.

[ghost2101]

@ray1411

did u not read what i said about the blk american experience being broad and wide? *facepalm* and armstrong williams? really? most blk ppl, esp blk AMERICAN ppl i know are not like armstrong williams........

[ray1411]

Word of advice: When you read someones response to your comment, try to remember, or even reread, your comment that evoked that response. You said, "wth u mean by field work," so thats why I mentioned the BLK experience. You made two points: 1) The black experience is broad, and 2) Not all BLK immigrants can go back to their homeland. Well, my response simply answer your fieldwork question, and your claim of BLK foreigners not being able to go home. Its that simple. I read your sit correctly.

[ghost2101]

@ray1411

cont dont go back to their island to live cuz there aint shit for them there other than a vacation and chance to see family......unlike blk americans whove been moving back south for the last 15 years, shit hasnt changed to the point where theres a massive WI or african exodus back where they came from.......

[ray1411]

Yes, there isnt shit to go back to, but there is a place to go back to--period. And US BLKs moving back down south isnt a phenomenon restricted to BLKs, as nonBLKs move to the south for opportunities. The job market in certain major cities does not allow for too many entry level positions. Yes, theres no major exodus of WI and Africans, but, if all hell breaks loose, we both know they will go home--even the ones born and raised in the US. That goes for all immigrants: Mexican, Filipinos., etc.

[ray1411]

Native BLKs have to negotiate. We have to accept the fact that, yes, "Red Tails" may not be the best depiction, but its about tradeoffs. Or, yes, Tyler Perry is annoying ass fuck, but he sets a benchmark for whats expected of future directors in terms of their films profitability. And that notion derives from our ancestors setting a standard for how, when and where to pick your battles. And Ive tried to tell my family this, but do they listen? No, because their immigrant asses know everything.

[ray1411]

This is why Soledad O'Briens "BLK in America" series was off base. Shes the product of immigrant parents, one of African descent. She created a series based on stereotypes, stereotypes she believes are the paramount to the BLK experience (e.g., single-parenthood, joblessness, incarceration, etc.). Yes, theyre key to the BLK communitys betterment, but theres more to it than that. How much input did she receive from BLK natives? Grassroots BLKs, not celebrities. Simply, dont overstep your bounds.

[ghost2101]

@ray1411

ummmm.......ur not gonna capture the broad or even the common experience of being blk in america in a damn TV series common sense shoulda told u that one.......a lot of the blk american magazines dont do grassroots input either.....u know why? the blk out of touch bourgeosie and white ppl run them magazines....ditto for the books from so called intellectuals......this is somethin my foreign ass figured out on my own.....

[ray1411]

Who said a TV show could cover an entire community in a series? I didnt. But I know this, if you cant do it right, especially without perpetuating stereotypes, then dont do it all. Just leave it alone. Dont try to talk about BLK people because a BLK man has a chance of winning the presidency. And BLK American magazines and books werent always out of touch with the masses of BLK people. Once upon a time, they were cutting edge publications/books, discussing key points and enlightening people.

[ghost2101]

@ray1411

stereotypes is what the media feeds off of.......blk magazines were cutting edge yea once upon a time......not now they aint....

[ray1411]

The days of Frantz Fanon, Arturo Schomburg, and Eric Williams are nearly over. No longer can many BLK foreigners comment on the US BLK experience without natives questioning their intentions--especially, not solely, African immigrants. Why? A majority who immigrate are middle to upper class. So, why listen to a rich schmucks opinion if he has an easy out? He has complaints but no solutions. At least the above scholars were of the New World, and experienced unadulterated oppression firsthand.

[ghost2101]

@ghost2101

cont.....a lot of activists in the past throughout US history were WI......and not just garvey either.....harry belafonte, stokely carmichael, malcolm x's mother was from grenada, WEB Dubois was descended from Haitians.........among others.......

[ray1411]

Do you think I didnt know many BLK activist were foreign? Thats why I said, "The days of Frantz Fanon, Arturo Schomburg, and Eric Williams are nearly over," and, "At least the above scholars were of the New World, and experienced unadulterated oppression firsthand." Meaning, they were well-versed in colonialism on a personal, enough to comment on the BLK experience in America. All were from the New World, so, for them to comment, was not as out of place. They spoke from a honest place.

[ray1411]

And not all West Indians were underclass. I know many who came here with "start-up" money. Shit, I think Bemuda has a higher per capita income than the US.

[ghost2101]

@ray1411

some arent, b ut most of the elites in the WI only come to the states for school.......most elites only stay if the political climate becomes too unstable

[ghost2101]

@ray1411

most blk foreigners have a better idea of the current state of affairs in blk america than most of the NAACP, the Urban League and most militants COMBINED...... the only thing blk immigrants lack is parents and grandparents to pass down stories of blk experience from way back when...

[nosimpin1]

@ghost2101

you must be one of them. Fresh off the boat should close the mouth because their history is not the same

[alreadycrowning]

@nosimpin1 Bruh we all the same no matter where we come from we all black and go through the same struggles cause when you see a black person, you see a black person regardless of what carribean island they came from or another continent.

[ghost2101]

@nosimpin1

depends on where theyre from........africa? i can see ur point considering they sold off blk ppl to come out this way in xchange for guns, molasses and jewels.......caribbean ppl? only major difference is that they were enslaved somewhere else and they talk different....

[nosimpin1]

@ghost2101

not that I have anything against the immigrants but many come here and look down on us like they are somehow better and usually are the biggest coons and selfhaters you can find.

[alreadycrowning]

@nosimpin1 Also not all of them think like that im pretty sure you have some friends or family friends who not from here and you really think they all think that. Come on bruh you know that can't be true.

[nosimpin1]

@alreadycrowning

I didn't mean all or most just many,

[ray1411]

@nosimpin1 Preach!

[ray1411]

@ghost2101 See what Im saying? Not one response. But you know more than everyone that my comments did not warrant a response, right?

[ghost2101]

@ray1411

last but not least get somethin str8......i dunno bout u but i dont have time to argue under some damn YT videos i do have a life and a job i goto every fucking day and arguin online is not on my todo list when i get off a long hard day of work....but dont think for a second that i was scared to respond and as ive just demonstrated I have more than enough intelligence and logic to counterattack the shit u had to say......

[ray1411]

Who doesnt fucking work? Do you think I sit around waiting for a response on YT? Nigga, please. And where do you work where you cant use the internet for personal use? Everyone uses the internet at work, or at least people with office jobs. Yeah, you showed a lot of intelligence and logic.

[ghost2101]

@ray1411

im in the military....i exercise in the morning and i spend the rest of the day cranking wrenches and doing heavy lifting in a motorpool.......if im not playing "army" and doing battle drills on how to kill motherfuckers.....so yea i dont c a computer much before 530PM and when i come home 4 the day, i wanna fucking sleep.,......idiot

[MiqaaEL]

HE SPEAKS THE TRUTH PERIOD!!!!!!!

[vedwards22]

I said the same thing when Disney came out with the Frog princess movie. BW were so excited that this was going to be the 1st black disney princess movie that they supported it regardless of the blatant stereotyping. I heard the character was a frog for 99% of the movie & wasn't even a princess. But they still supported it with a something is better than nothing attitude. But if DISNEY was black the movie would've been called out. We're too use to taking white ppl's scraps and making soul food.

[westplace2001]

The movie was ok, I will not critic it differently than any other movie I've seen. Even with Tyler Perry, I respect his craft. At the end of the day, these movies open doors for others for more talented individuals. Whites have been making movies for centuries n they still make tons of crappy movies n a good one sometimes. Cut us some slack.

[willia3r]

@westplace2001

Great points.

[TheOpinionatedDude]

its a movie....a damn good movie. I think we read too much into it.

[willia3r]

@TheOpinionatedDude

Totally agree.

[willia3r]

Meh.

I don't think that at this point in time there is any way for all black americans to be satisfied all the time when it involves the media. It always seem like there just HAS to be some pretense involved, some sort of "extra-ness" when it comes to black entertainment.

All I can say for myself is that I like Red-Tails. Sure, I can be on "blacker-than-thou" stuff & say that white hollywood is this & George Lucas is that, but at the end of the day, I'd just be a young man watching a movie.

[willia3r]

@willia3r

and if I can't have the luxury of just being a young man watching a movie without all the social-cultural pretenses & the nuances of black or white or American culture? Then God can ahead and take me out of the game.

At some a man like me needs to abandon all that race-pretense crap and: simply just enjoy a doggone movie. It's the only I think for me as well any other human being, retain some semblance of sanity.

[fmcneillii]

@willia3r No one said you couldn't enjoy a movie but don't expect others to be content with something they see as an inferior effort.

[willia3r]

@fmcneillii

And by the same token, those others to whom you speak of shouldn't be judgmental of people who simply see a movie as just that: a movie.

Agree to disagree, and then move on to the next chapter I'd say. Love that 1st amendment to the Bill of Rights.

[ISayThisWithLuv]

You are a good movie reviewer. I look forward to you reviews on other movies.

[ISayThisWithLuv]

I agree with you. In any case there are so many really good black films, why just spend money to any old thing because black folks is in it? I seen a lot of good black movies and some bad ones. I only support the good ones. Good point about Tyler Perry!

[propheci]

And when Hollywhite does portray us, I'm skeptic. shmptn3 summed T. Perry up perfectly. He may as well have the transgender surgery and be done with it since he's an honorary black woman. I'm not mad at this movie, though; I'm sick of Hollywood period. Movies have just recycled scripts these days anyway, making motion pictures irrelevant and useful as a marketing tool and propaganda machine.

[propheci]

I understand your thought process with this pinkk; the patronizing attitude that comes with this film comes from our low expectations, self hatred and low self esteem. Supposeldy we can't do for self, so G. Lucas and his Black girlfriend did for us. They crapped on Spike with Miracle at St. Anna, but praise Lucas, wtf? They got mad at the interracial love side plot, which still occurs with AA soldiers TODAY. Hollyweird is not really for us.

[gallyun1]

Pink, I think also people are just going with the flow and settling for the crumbs that Hollywood gives us is because of simple fact black Hollywood (actor, writers,producers etc.) are not standing up and trying build a movie or entertainment corporation.

Like you said, we are not using our resources and not supporting each other.

[shmptn3]

@pinkkelephant: Just because we are black, it doesn't mean that we should all appreciate the works of Black filmmakers, or filmmakers in general. Personally, Perry's material doesn't appeal to me--it's Black feminist-as-victim fare. We don't all have to be of the same accord about anything. Many, if not most women don't like war movies--a very simple example. So maybe Lucas makes some money. He might not even break even. Young people may learn something about their history though.

[fmcneillii]

Man I love your commentary. Brilliant!

[nosimpin1]

If its not made by a straight brother who is calling all the shots and not a mammas boy I could care less. I have seen the story a million times before. B.S. propaganda

[nosimpin1]

Iam not into Hollywood like most people are, mainly because of this kind of sh... and because I don't like rehearsed sh... Hollywood and people of color don't go together. Dark Europeans

[fmcneillii]

We as black people have to stop acting like we can't do for ourselves or like it's white people's jobs to tell our story. We are the ONLY people in this world that waits for other people to tell our story or make our "dreams" come true. If we want more and superior black movies they have to come from us. It is no one else responsibility to make us feel good about ourselves. Stop whining and acting like babies y'all. Do for self and let make things happen together.

[mktking]

@fmcneillii retweet/cosign hiddencolorsfilm (dot) com

[derektheproducer]

@fmcneillii Thats pretty much the same thing I posted on my facebook page and I only got 2 comments... SMH

[alreadycrowning]

@fmcneillii You right. We have people like John Singleton who makes good black movies and I think we definently have the talent to really project our movie making abilities more cause we know what really goes on and how to change things which is what should be projected on the big screen.