"Carolina Shout" - James P. Johnson

[ohaiduhg]

Immediately, Super Mario Bros 2 came to my head.

[KawhackitaRag]

So, to sum up all of this, this is a fine example of a QRS piano roll, (and a reasonable, and fairly sensitive for the time, transliteration of what Johnson played), it is by no means a performance. By playing the roll on a well-restored, tuned, and voiced foot-pumped player piano, and adding dynamics by hand and foot (using the usual hand controls and foot pedals), a person creates more of a "performance" than the roll does playing automatically without expression!

[GeoHunt1]

James P Johnson recorded more piano rolls than anyone else.  Certainly piano rolls are as valid a recording media as any other.

[KawhackitaRag]

@GeoHunt1 With all due respect, (and I hate to add this to a video where I've already posted a series of comments), James P. Johnson did not make "more piano rolls than anyone else". According to one estimate, he is known to have made about 55 rolls, give or take a few. While this is certainly a respectable number, it is a drop in the bucket compared to such titans of the piano roll as Victor Arden, Mary E. Brown, J. Lawrence Cook, Rudy Erlebach, and Frank Milne, each of whom made over 1000.

[KawhackitaRag]

I hasten to add though, that although he was not one of the most PROLIFIC roll artists, James P. Johnson was one of the most INFLUENTIAL. His piano rolls are demonstrably known to have been influential on the musical development of such pianists as James Blythe, Duke Ellington, Fletcher Henderson, and Clarence Johnson (probably among many others).

[KawhackitaRag]

@KawhackitaRag Interestingly, I have no idea if any other rolls by other artists were similarly influential on the development of other pianists of the day. This information is not in any of the books I've seen. I would love to know, for example, the early musical influences of Victor Arden, Mike Loscalzo, Harry Geise, and dozens of other pianists, but since they're all deceased and I was never able to interview them, we may never know. [...]

[KawhackitaRag]

@KawhackitaRag To finish up, I extend an open invitation to the surviving family members of ANY pianist (well-known or not, recorded or not, and who made rolls, or not), who was active in popular music during the 1910s and 1920s. If you have any home-made recordings, manuscripts, diaries, photos, or even simply an anecdote or two, I would love to hear from you! I am working on a couple of books about popular pianists from the 1910s and 1920s and need all the information I can get!

[KawhackitaRag]

@GeoHunt1 I do not consider piano rolls a "recording medium" in the true sense, but certainly they are all very important documents in that they record the musical attitudes and pianistic thoughts of the time in a clear, no-nonsense manner in a piece of paper. Even if the roll was totally arranged (no original performance involved whatsoever), the roll still is an important illustration of how certain good musicians back in the old days would interpret and embellish a piece of music.

[98MrsShannon]

Please, what type piano roll, e.g. ampico, duo art, welt mignon or pianola?

[lindyhoppers]

@98MrsShannon

just a regular QRS piano roll, see here cataogue

qrsmusic.com

[youtoobsignupsucks]

Just to explain to people what a piano roll is; its a mechanical system that connects to a piano and records the timing and velocity of the notes that the pianist plays. This was then punched into card, which allows us now to recreate the tune on a modern piano, played with the same feeling / rhythm as the original performer - a blast from the past!

If you heard James Johnson performing this back in the 20s, it would sound very similar to this except with more hiss. Also in black and white.

[KawhackitaRag]

@youtoobsignupsucks Hello there, I hate to be a wet blanket, but very few (if any) commercially-issued piano rolls back in the old days (pre-player-piano-revival) were created with any kind of a "direct recording" method. Almost all were arranged on a drawing board, with some arrangements based upon sheet music, and others based upon a pianist's performance recorded on a "marking piano" which drew lines on paper, but did not punch holes. [...]

[KawhackitaRag]

@youtoobsignupsucks [...] in order to create a finished production master, the person arranging the roll (usually not listed on the label, except in the case of rolls "assisted by" listing the arranger, or rolls where the "performer" was also the arranger) looked at the markings on the marking piano output, made additional markings to call attention to wrong notes accidentally hit by the pianist, and copied the correct notes onto the production master according to the factory's rhythm scale.

[KawhackitaRag]

@youtoobsignupsucks That last part, "rhythm scale" is extremely important, because this, more than anything else, is what determines the final "feel" and "rhythm" of the roll! Now, more or less large differences in syncopation, for example syncopation based upon eighth notes or sixteenth notes (in 3/4 or 4/4) could be copied faithfully, as could most "straight" rhythms. [...]

[KawhackitaRag]

@youtoobsignupsucks [...] "Swing" (uneven eighth notes) was solved by different companies in different ways. The Columbia (later renamed Capitol) roll company of Chicago preferred to use a quintuple rhythm to represent swing, which many musicians feel is closer to an average "true swing" as practiced by many widely recognized jazz musicians (of course, no two musicians swing exactly alike, in the absolute sense). In other words, the ratio between the longer and the shorter eighth note was 3:2...

[KawhackitaRag]

@youtoobsignupsucks ...so that, translated into their typical practice, the "swung" eighth note pattern would be represented on the roll as, respectively, 6 hole punches and 4 hole punches (or, 3 and 2), with a quarter note represented by 10 punches. (In roll-arranger's terminology, this is known as "ten steps per beat"). Naturally, a roll directly cut by the pianist on the keyboard would not align with any regular ratio (except the extremely fine "clock" of a computer recording a performance).

[KawhackitaRag]

@youtoobsignupsucks Now, the QRS company, which made this roll, typically used a "twelve-steps-per-beat" ratio for their medium-tempo fox-trot rolls, of which this is one. So, in other words, a quarter note was represented by twelve hole punches, allowing perfect eighth notes, perfect triplets, perfect sixteenth notes, and perfect sixteenth triplets (sextuplets) to be executed. "Swung eighths" were represented by eight and four punches respectively, or a 2:1 or simple triplet pattern.

[KawhackitaRag]

@youtoobsignupsucks So anyway, if you listen to audio recordings made during the 1920s of James P. Johnson, Thomas "Fats" Waller, Zez Confrey, Pete Wendling, J. Russel Robinson, and Phil Ohman (all of whom made rolls for QRS during the 1920s), you will hear a variety of different kinds of "swung eighths" (among many other things) used by them, not to mention their own unique "touch" and "feel", which has as much to do with their own unique timing irregularities as it does volume or attack.

[KawhackitaRag]

@youtoobsignupsucks James P. Johnson's 1921 Okeh audio recording of "Carolina Shout" is probably the best early document their is, because it is absolutely him playing live on a piano, no monkey business. With the roll, Johnson played the QRS "marking piano" (which incidentally still exists and is on display in a museum) which made lines on a blank roll of paper. [...]

[KawhackitaRag]

@KawhackitaRag [...] The arranger, (who was not J. Lawrence Cook by Mr. Cook's own testimony, but may have been Victor Arden), took Mr. Johnson's performance, represented by the lines on the long piece of paper, and visually "read" it (keeping in mind what he had probably heard first-hand in the QRS recording studio), simultaneously simplifying somewhat what are actually quite subtle changes in rhythm that Johnson makes into the standard "house rhythm" scale, which still sounds quite good here!

[leantext]

Nice post and nice writeup. High quality befitting the master. Nothing wrong with piano rolls--just another way of recording, no less legitimate than cutting wax. Please post more.

[lindyhoppers]

@leantext

I would post more but I do not have enough photos of JPJ to fit three mins of another song :-(

[jamssmith]

@lindyhoppers I love the sound of rolls... very nostalgic and good documentation of what was in the minds of pianists/composers in early stages

[WSenator1]

@lindyhoppers - Shucks! Just reuse the photos, and play more JPJ!

[Jazzdog40]

It sounds like a MIDI piano. Ugh.

[citywideuniversity]

OH MY GOD! I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO FIND ANYONE THAT KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT JAMES P. JOHNSON. I'M DOING RESEARCH ON HIS CHORAL MUSIC..LIKE HIS "KITCHEN OPERA", "THE HUSBAND", "YAMACRAW"... ETC... IF THERE IS ANYONE WHO CAN HELP ME I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE IT... MY EMAIL IS CITYWIDEUNIVERSITY@YAHOO.COM

[Dejavu2311]

I love it!

[bimbo4746]

piano roll or not its great still tappin my toes you go roll or not yeaaaaaa

[lindyhoppers]

@bimbo4746

glad you're enjoying it!

yeaaa

[bimbo4746]

piaqno roll or not its great still tappin my toes you go roll or not yeaaaaaa

[chaoman45]

You're telling me this is from the 20s? And it doesn't have a scratchy sound as if it was tape recorded straight from the phonograph? Simply amazing!

[lindyhoppers]

@chaoman45

this is from a piano roll!

[chaoman45]

@lindyhoppers True. I'm just used to the lower quality of older music, even though sometimes the low quality isn't bad since it gives music authenticity.

[kg6iif]

@chaoman45 um derp? someone else is playing it.

[chaoman45]

@kg6iif So?

[gitfiddlejim]

@chaoman45

The sound quality of 78,s is very good, it was the inferior equipment they were played on, and rough handlin which caused the crackles, a new 78record would sound wonderful on todays gear, some collectors will have pristine records to prove it, material was very brittle so easily scratched, the scratches were not there when recorded. Its been suggested that the info in the 78 groove has more info than a cd

[djzh123]

alsome



[djzh123]

alsome



[Antoinehenryb]

Absolutely astonishing!

[WSenator1]

Many ups to James P!

[HAMayoral]

Hmm, Ragtimey!

[josiah566]

@iWannaBboy I think "better" is an understatement in this sense. Respect to Jimmy P. though.

[clubfun12]

@iWannaBboy

thanks for the tip , i will check that out.

[ZingZee123456789]

where can i downlaod this..IM IN LOVE!

[LudwigVonKoopa64]

love stride everyone!

[lapresdmididufaune]

Does this song freak the hell out of anyone else? Maybe it's giving me flashbacks to when I watched "Eraserhead", but this is some freaky shit.

[AeolianHall1]

Thanks for this great site. There are many other Johnson rolls on the YouTube channel AeolianHall1 Hope you like 'em.

[clubfun12]

after 35 years of listening this song i stiill say ; AMAZING ! and that counts for the whole album ! how is possible someone can play as good as this. all his songs are a masterpiece.

[inkontinentius]

Can't imagine that this piece of music is from 1921...absolute awesome, thanks for the good quality

[lindyhoppers]

thx for stopping by --- the quality is given by the piano roll which allows endless playbacks with fidelity -- then the guy pumping the piano pedals takes care of tempo, dynamics, nuances...

[nicodagger]

Fantastic sound quality!! A rarity on Y.T. Thanks!!

[kittygoesmoot]

you are a life save with this upload! i'm taking jazz history class..and i bought the book..but not the cd..and this song was on it yay! one song down 20 more to look up xD

[egcomedy1]

Thank You.

>/.

[GaryPansey]

Nice sound quality! Don't forget to see the "Last Rent Party" for James P's headstone :(

[KawhackitaRag]

Thanks for posting this video!

[KawhackitaRag]

The definition of "stride piano" that's been around for years is inaccurate. Nearly all popular (that is, non-classical) pianists of the 1920s used the alternating oom-pah bass, which derives from ragtime. This does not mean that they all play "stride". What differentiates the "stride" pianists is what they play in the RIGHT hand, plus a FEW left-hand figures (such as melodic low bass notes that are not just root-fifth; and the "drop-bass" heard from 1:49-1:54)

[aprendizdepianista]

you are wrong, check out the LEFT hand of Oscar Peterson doing stride and you can see the many different ways to do "oom_pah" .

[KawhackitaRag]

No, you misunderstand me. What I mean is that only a few of those many left-hand patterns can be considered characteristic of the so-called "stride piano" school. Many patterns ascribed to the stride school in origin seem to have existed decades before the style was "founded".

I don't care what Riccardo Scivales claims; he is a great transcriber, etc. but he hasn't deeply studied all the OTHER non-"stride" pianists and roll arrangers of the teens and twenties as I have and continue to do.

[KawhackitaRag]

And again, may I reiterate that, as James P. Johnson himself once put it (I think: I don't have my source handy at the moment), "the characteristic strides are made by the right hand".

If you would just listen to a bunch of piano rolls AND audio recordings of popular pianists in the 1910s and 1920s, you would quickly realize that many of the so-called "stride" left-hand patterns were used by many pianists, white and black, irrespective of "genre".

[wteo340]

Damn! At 2:50 in the picture with people surrounding Johnson, I'd have to say the boy in the middle with the black suit and tie looks a tad bit like Oscar Peterson, only thing is the mouth is a little different, otherwise everything else looks like him!

[ilovesteelydan]

I Love this man and his playing! Thank you so much for posting! Does anyone know of any footage that might exist, of Johnson playing his tunes? The only footage I am aware of is a very short clip of Johnson, from behind, in Bessie Smith's "St. Louis Blues". But you cannot see his face.

[likemyviolin]

Million thanks for this jewel!! Piano roll ---> MIDI. Great!

[jfcraft]

Tell that to Art Tatum

[dirigentkomponist]

James P Johnson was a true giant of jazz and piano. This piano roll performance is great, but it misses a great deal of the nuance and sophistication that fill his live performances.

[lindyhoppers]

that's true, unfortunately it's a QRS roll with no expression - if Johnson had had the opportunity to cut it for the Duo-Art company it would be different, you know Duo-Art rolls have automatic level of dynamics, close to the real performance

thx for your comment

[dirigentkomponist]

I am familiar with Duo-Art, and I am old enough to have actually "played" a player piano. I haven't seen one in well over 20 years.

[KawhackitaRag]

There's still plenty of Duo-Arts around, Ampicos too, if you want to get one. Unrestored ones are very inexpensive right now.

Eubie Blake made his "Charleston Rag" on Ampico, however I think the dynamics were probably added later by an editor rather than "recorded" at the time in this early performance 1917. Thus, there is probably also a Rythmodik 88-note version of that same roll.

[KawhackitaRag]

Duo-Arts are great, but I have no proof that Aeolian actually had any real way of "recording" the dynamics in the way that they could make note lines on paper based upon what the pianist played. Also, Duo-Art rolls are quantized exactly like many other Aeolian 88-note rolls (for example, some Mel-O-Dee rolls and Duo-Art rolls are note-for-note identical except for the expression coding). I love the sound of a good "reproducing" piano but I don't buy into the mythology.

[Pentagonshark666]

i'm not a pianist,but i see that this guy

was a real genius on piano.

[JamesPriceJohnson]

me like

[jazzgirl1920s]

I first heard James P. Johnson play his composition on the 3 lp set "The Sound of Harlem" when I was a kid and I have enjoyed Harlem stride piano players ever since. It is nice to hear this piano roll version. The recording is a lot clearer than the old 1920's okeh label recording on lp. Very nice photo montage of James P. with the recording. thanks

[lindyhoppers]

Hi Linda,

unfortunately I did not find other photos of a young Johnson. Thanks for your comment and stop by anytime!