Was Heavenly Mother Once Perhaps a Sinner?

[TadFortitude]

Doctrines of men... Run!!!

[TadFortitude]

What???!!!!

[born4rain]

Your Going to hell for spreading these lies and blaphemies

[Kannon12]

Currently I am wondering whether Heavenly Mother reigns over a planet where women discriminate against men. Maybe the patriarchal societies on our planet are being due to God being a man, and consequently it would be the other way round on the planet which is reigned by Heavenly Mother.

[Dalessiokiller]

There's a slightly sarcastic yet educational video done here on YouTube called "Mormon Doctrine God is Married to Heavenly Mother: YES It is in the BIBLE."

Another great one is: "Ancient Israelite beliefs: Did God have a wife? Were Israelites polytheistic?" You wany to talk about making people think - People of all Christian sects will like this if you do indeed like to think. If you want to just argue - don't bother.

[leeuniverse]

Even though I was one once briefly, I can never understand anti-mormons, especially Christian ones. Because they use standards that would destroy their own faith, and they don't even consider their own faith foundations. The most basic one being. By what authority is the "Bible" the sole and perfect word of God? Which version? Which translation? Which compilation through history? And why are those who made those decisions reliable, especially when they changed their opinions many times?

[Dalessiokiller]

@leeuniverse Wonderfully said and the exact reason I don't even bother debating anymore.

[leeuniverse]

@Dalessiokiller I'm still not able to repent of the debate "sin". I just don't believe in allowing bullies and bigots to do whatever they want without be checked. I just can't stand it, so, if I see something, I almost always have to respond with the actual truth. I just feel I'm obligated. But, I do waste too much time doing it, and need to actually produce something useful, like you are with videos and such. Anyway, life, too much to do, not enough time to do it.

[Dalessiokiller]

@leeuniverse I don't think there's a need to repent my friend and the bullies need to be checked. I'm at the point where if they want proof I'm going to show them and so far there's been nothing solid against what I've had to show. Keep it up but don't let it bring your spirits down or consume you. ( : Peace and God bless

[leeuniverse]

10th lie by Aaron.... LDS doctrine DOES say if God was a sinner or not. It says God was "as Christ". Since we know that Christ wasn't a sinner, the only mortal to not be, then we know the Father wasn't either. LDS doctrine only doesn't say anything else about God, what he was or wasn't before. That's all we know, period, end of discussion.

[leeuniverse]

9th lie by Aaron..... The uncorrupted doctrine of Jews of the past actually believed they were "gods". In Christ's time the Jews wanted to stone Christ for saying he was as God, and he said, why do that when your own law says "ye are gods". Clearly, as Aaron Christians trying to change the terms to "judges" would be false, because Christ wouldn't be stoned for saying he was a Judge, nor would he use a verse saying everyone was judges. God said ye are gods.

[leeuniverse]

8th lie by Aaron....  There is no LDS doctrine that God has a Father or God above him. We only have and there only is One God. Some LDS have speculated that there might be others above, but that's not actual LDS doctrine. That's just a school of thought of mainly two within Mormonism. It's not mormonism.

[leeuniverse]

7th lie by Aaron.... Christ while "sinless", doesn't mean he wasn't tempted, also doesn't mean he never made mistakes, it doesn't mean he never transgressed. The scriptures are clear he grew from grace to grace as any man does. Extra-biblical text which states Christ even killed someone accidently, but raised him again if I remember right. If we have a mother, then there is no reason to believe she isn't one from the Millennium or other times in which the people actually were "perfect".

[leeuniverse]

6th lie by Aaron.... Clearly the Mother was worthy enough to be with the Father, as those of us who will be worthy enough to live with the Father. We don't "worship" Heavenly Mother, we Worship the Father alone. Mother being imperfect once in some degree, doesn't mean anything. Also, during the Millennium, people will be sinless enough that they will be translated not tasting death & satan is bound, no temptation. How do you know our mother isn't one of them perfect souls from another plan?

[leeuniverse]

5th lie by Aaron.... There is no "doctrine" that we will even have our own spirit children, let alone be "worshiped" by them. In fact, I don't even think anyone has barely even speculated on that, thus you're up stuff. All we know is that we will stand on Gods Right and with Christ and inherit all he hath, just as the scriptures state. Aaron, as with all ex-mo's who are anti, it is your perversion & lack of understanding of mormonism, that makes it false to you, not what it actually is.

[leeuniverse]

4th lie by Aaron..... There is only "1" sin which disqualifies someone from Exaltation, and that is the Sin Against the Holy Ghost (Sons of Perdition, satan types who know the truth and deny it). Murder is entirely able to be forgiven and repented of. It will simply require a price. Of course, one who commits murder will not make the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom, or maybe even the Celestial Kingdom at all (unless they are sealed LDS). But, they will still be saved. So, you wrong!

[leeuniverse]

3rd lie by Aaron.... LDS have no doctrine or revelation on Heavenly Mother, other than she exists. Thus, it's pointless to speculate what she did or didn't do. Although, if you really want to get into speculation, some have considered that the Holy Ghost might actually be our Heavenly mother. Remember, no sexual procreation is required. We existed first as Intelligences, and then became spirits through the Father and mother, similar to how we are only Stewards of our own Children. Anyway.

[leeuniverse]

2nd lie by Aaron.... There is no "doctrine" of the Church of God have "wives". That was only speculation by some in the Church.

[leeuniverse]

The Title of this video is stupid..... Christ was "God", and he never was a "wretch" like normal mortals born of a father and mother.

Further, LDS theology is that the Father was once a man as CHRIST was once a man, as Christ himself implied when he said he did nothing he hadn't seen his Father do.

It doesn't help an anti-mormons case when they bear false witness of their target from the very beginning. Of course, they bear false witness concerning every with mormonism, so what's new.

[gullgath]

Hevinly Mother is perfict and she is god's only wife

[gullgath]

Hevinly Mother is perfict and she is god's wife

[clearpathtofollw]

This argument makes no sense. No other Church believes in a Heavenly Mother, so to ask this question is really illogical on your part. The yes or no answer which the questions begs makes no difference since you do not believe in a Heavenly Mother in the first place. Come on dude. Why not ask if she was a total babe while you're being sacreligious.

[jonnygotz2343]

I believe she was a sinner and was forgiven i mean

[jonnygotz2343]

I believe she was a sinner and was forgiving!!

[Kannon12]

What denomination does Aaron belong to? Is he a member of Calvary Chapel?

[aaronshaf2006]

@Kannon12 I got to an EV Free church, but have no personal denominational allegiance. I'm an evangelical mutt.

[Kannon12]

@aaronshaf2006 Many evangelicals claim to be "non-denominational", yet they differ considerably in their interpretation of the bible. By calling themself non-denominational, they fool themselves into the idea that their bible interpretation is the only valid and correct one. E.g. Calvary chapel is a self-proclaimed non-denominational church, yet they teach specific interpretations such as Christ's return in 1981 or the Moses principle teaching that pastors have the same authority Moses had.

[Kannon12]

@aaronshaf2006 What does your church teach about the tragedy in Japan? Why did Jesus Christ kill 20.000 people there? After all, if God created this earth, he also set it up on colliding tectonic plates, thus causing the earthquakes and the tsunami. Anyway, since God is allpowerful, he could have prevented this incident from happening. Why, according to the church you go to, did he not?

[Kannon12]

@aaronshaf2006 I have read that Terry Jones who recently burned the Quran in his church, leading to the death of several innocent UN workers, is also from a non-denominational church. Do you share his values, Aaron?

[aaronshaf2006]

@Kannon12 "If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all." (Romans 12:18)

[Kannon12]

@aaronshaf2006 So does that mean that this pastor is not preaching the word of God?

[Kannon12]

@aaronshaf2006 Is there a direct line of authority going from Jesus Christ down the centuries to your pastor, such that he has the authority to baptize and preach the gospel? Does such a line exist in your church, Aaron?

[aaronshaf2006]

@Kannon12 The line goes direct from Jesus to all of his followers, not transferred through an ordination ceremony, but rather through the authority of his word. He says "Go", and we go. We don't say, "Well first I'm going to need the proper priesthood papers."

[Kannon12]

@aaronshaf2006 Well, did he say "Go" to you, or to his apostles? I guess he said so to his apostles, but you probably confused this, because you are READING the bible as if he was speaking to you.

[aaronshaf2006]

@Kannon12 "you are READING the bible as if he was speaking to you" -- Exactly, and I think there is good warrant for this. See John chapters 14-17 for a flowing example of this, of Jesus saying things to the disciples that are obviously meant for a broader audience than just his immediate hearers.

[Kannon12]

@aaronshaf2006 In Mt 16:18, Christ clearly states that the Church is built on the foundation of the apostles, namely on Simon Peter. Aaron, your name is not Peter, so Christ was not talking to you, or to the minister of your evangelical church, but to Simon Peter the apostle. Is there a line of authority between Simon Peter and your local church?

[aaronshaf2006]

@Kannon12 Yes, the connection between the authority given to Peter and the authority of local Christian churches is the word of God, the Bible. I see zero support in the Bible for ordained priesthood authority, let alone for Gentiles. See Hebrews 7.

[aaronshaf2006]

@Kannon12 Yes, the connection between the authority given to Peter and the authority of local Christian churches is the word of God, the Bible. I see zero support in the Bible for ordained priesthood authority for New Testament Christianity, let alone for Gentiles. See Hebrews 7.

[Kannon12]

@aaronshaf2006 Now if the bible were enough to support a unified church, why do you get ten answers if you ask ten Christians? Some baptize infants, some only adults. Some venerate Mother Mary and the Saints, others don't. Some believe the millenium has come, some don't. Some think the host is truely the flesh of Christ, others see the Lord's Supper as a commemoration, and all is built on the same "rock", namely their unauthorized interpretation of the bible. What a shaky rock it is.

[Kannon12]

Aaron, if you want to know whether Heavenly Mother once was a sinner, why don't you pray to Her? She is our mother, and she wants to communicate with us, her children.

[Dadutta]

@Kannon12 Encouraging prayer to a "heavenly mother" ? How pagan.

Jr 44:19

The women added, "When we burned incense to the Queen of Heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, did not our husbands know that we were making cakes like her image and pouring out drink offerings to her?"

Jr 7:18

The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes of bread for the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to provoke me to anger.

[Kannon12]

I have asked about a hundred Mormons whether they believed in any other Gods or Goddesses besides God, and they said they do not believe in any other Gods besides those three: God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Go to Mormon.org and ask a missionary about this, and they will tell you the same. They don't believe in other Gods.

[bgarth57]

There is no Heavenly mothers, Your Going to Hell for this

[LukeAir2008]

@hammerogod 'For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning' 2 Peter 2:20 Have you believed unto righteousness? Have you escaped the pollutions of the world?

[thesignsoflife7]

@LukeAir2008

The words of Jesus are meaningless to Mormons aren't they?

[Tooeleboy07]

As Latter Day Saints, we don't speak of Deity loosely. I wish you would have not talked about our Heavenly Mother with such a disrespectful tone. I have been taught our Heavenly Father has such a deep and perfect love for her that he has kept her from this wicked earth that Man wouldn't use her name in vain. As they do, with Him and our Elder Brother.

Thank you.

[etcharrison]

@Tooeleboy07 Sir, where is the heavenly mother talked about......in the bible? How is it there is a heavenly mother? Doesn't God have many wives?

[bsdanielm]

It is impossible to acquire perfection that the Mormon church demands that is why I left. (I've submited my letter yesterday 31st-10-2010).

[clearpathtofollw]

@bsdanielm Matthew 5:48 Be ye perfect even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Now obviously none of us can live perfect lives, but Christ offers us the potential to be like him and his father. The Mormon Church does not demand perfection, but simply offers us a way to live our lives to be more perfect than the sinful beings that we are. What's wrong with that?

[bsdanielm]

@clearpathtofollw - I left the church late last year. So this stuff no longer applies to me thankyou very much.

[LukeAir2008]

Aaron, were you having a stupor of thought there? Stuttering and stammering. It looked like your spirit was in discord?

[aaronshaf2006]

@LukeAir2008 It was all that Postum I had the hour before?

[LukeAir2008]

@aaronshaf2006 LOL That explains it then!

[LukeAir2008]

Jesus said only those Saints who endure to the end will be saved. (Matthew 10:12) and yet you arrogant demons pronounce yourself saved even as you fight against Christ and His Kingdom and blaspheme God's holy name.

[hammerogod]

@LukeAir2008 “For if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved” (Romans 10:9-11)

There are some excellent studies regarding the statement "he who endures to the end will be saved"(Matthew 24:13)

Most of those studies conclude that this refers only to the Tribulation Saints.

[sirhood2]

God is a merciful God NOW. He is a God of mercy and forgiveness, NOW! But when he comes back for his people, "every eye shall see him" he will come back as our Judge, jury and executioner. No time to repent then. It's all over.

[mishail82]

Heavenly Mother is the creator, she created Sin so how could she be Guilty of Sin. God has no God, so this is Garbage

[sirhood2]

Who is our heavenly mother? Where'd she come from? Was she sinless? Is heavenly father sinless? Does heavenly father have a physical body? Answers: There is no heavenly mother. if there was, yes, she was a sinner. No. Heavenly father does NOT have a physical body. Anyone who believes that there is a heavenly mother had better wake up and smell the roses.

[sthcrox]

the 'heavenly' mother is Satan himself!

may be your mother IS satan, eh?

[leSavaii]

AARON "Was Heavenly Mother Once Perhaps a Sinner?"

Just speculations after speculations Aaron & I didn't know that you too believe of having a Heavenly Mother?

QUESTION FOR YOU AARON...Was Jesus Christ once perhaps a sinner? If Jesus was a sinner then He too will remain a sinner forever? Do figure how ridiculous you sound like on these videos?

[sirhood2]

Jesus was not a sinner. He was born into a world full of sin. The cross he carried was representative of the sins of the world he carried on him. His blood is sufficient to cleans us from ALL unrightiousness. Any mormon who believes that the blood of Jesus is not enough to cleans ALL your sins had better get wise to the fact that those holy maroni underwear can and will NOT protect you from spiritual attacks. Only the blood of Jesus can do that. Good point Le Savaii.

[JustinMartyrJr]

#16. Godmakers from sinners: ?s for Aaron, etc.

If Nicene Creed 3 in 1 unbiblical Jesus of modern born again "Christians," can save Baptists, Methodists, Calvinists, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Catholics, Orthodox Christians, & anyone else who accepts the 1 godhead Jesus & accepts "salvation by grace alone," as the ultimate qualification for having the "right Jesus"? And can save them despite all their conflicting dogmas, beliefs, & wars throughout history. Surely he can save LDS too!

[maximusjay]

Justin you would make a great Mormon Apologist. You chase the truth around the barn pretending to want it, but you never want to actually catch up to it. Your logic mocks God. As Paul taught if you build falsely on the foundation of Christ after you are "Saved", you will still be saved but only as one escaping through the flames. You will suffer loss, and may find yourself the least in His Kingdom. The real tragedy is there is no way of knowing if you are saved.

[JustinMartyrJr]

Your comments offer no real answers to the issues & questions put forth here. Suggest to me a lack of understanding of early Christian polemics & early anti-Christian charges, & answers given to those charges by early Christian apologists. Plus, your judging me "saved," but as one that will have to pass through the fire?

[jonathandavid33]

"your judging me "saved, "but as one that will have to pass through the fire"

I never judged you as "saved" or not "saved". The "you" I am referring to in context (something most Mormons I deal with have a problem with) is anyone. What I said is the Truth. Don't you read the Bible? If you note I said that there is no way of knowing if you are Saved. There is too much in between you and God. Your opinion as to my early Christian understanding is negated by my Anthropological background.

[jonathandavid33]

All of these studies you are referring to came from my work. I have worked with Maximusjay for many years along with a staff archaeologist. If you wish, when he gets back in town we can answer the issues you have raised. It is difficult doing this over the phone. Take care.

[sirhood2]

No, there IS not way to know that you are saved. That, my friend, is where FAITH comes in. By faith, if we do what God wants us to do to the best of our mortal ability, we can be sure, by faith, that he will forgive us our sins and accept us into his fold. Without faith, works is dead. Without works, faith is dead.

[sirhood2]

Jesus is the savior of the world. All we need do is be baptized, accept that he is king of kings and lord of lords, and that he saved you from your sins, and that he died for you on the cross, you will be saved. Religion will not get you to heaven. Being saved, santified, baptized in Jesus name, being born again of the spirit, believing that Jesus died for you on the cross, will grant you access into heaven. One does not need Joseph Smith's permission to enter heaven. There is only ONE heaven!

[JustinMartyrJr]

#15 Godmakers from sinners: ?s for Aaron, etc.

If it's sinful to believe in false doctrines, practice "satanic rituals," have "satanic symbols," following "false prophets," (as alleged by anti-LDS "Christians" against LDS). Wouldn't Christ at least save, by his loving grace, all LDS people, if he's going to save King David, David Berkowit & other murderers now preachers in prisons? Save them because they confess, not the unbiblical Jesus of Nicene Creed, but the real Jesus of the Bible!?

[sirhood2]

JustinMartyrJr, I believe that whomever confesses with their mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord of their lives, and believes in their heart that Jesus died for their sins on the cross, no matter what they have done in the past, If they TRULY confess with a contrite spirit and a broken heart, God will forgive them 100%. This once saved, always saved philosophy is dead wrong. You can be saved and still go to hell if you keep sinning, which means you were never saved to start with.

[JustinMartyrJr]

sir.: How shall they confess if preachers aren't sent? Rom.10:6-18. Early Christian apologists answer early anti-Christians' charge of Christ neglecting others before, during & after Christ's time, by saying pre-mortal Christ did go to other peoples. Christ descent into hell & world wide post -resurrection teaching tours made Christ a superior ruler over all others. No earthly or devilish power could stop him from making his victory march over earth & realms.

You Tube: Christ As Cosmic Cruiser

[JustinMartyrJr]

#14 Godmakers from sinners: ?s for Aaron, etc.

So if these former murderers, (later deified by Christ) as gods & goddess; should show same mercy to their victims, that Christ showed them. Should they descend into hell as Christ did. Should they rescue their victims out of hell! Wouldn't they be former murderers, then turned godmakers, making future godmakers out of their victims thus saved by them, (their murderers), who were later forgiven, repentant, cleansed of all sins & deified by Christ?

[sirhood2]

Christ is the ony one who ever went into hell. No one can save anyone who is in hell. People who are still alive here on earth, even though they were murderers, or what have you, if they asked God to forgive them, and the meant it from the bottom of their heart, by faith, believing that God would forgive them, they ARE saved by the grace and mercy of God. If they continue in their wicked ways, they lose that grace.

[JustinMartyrJr]

sir.: Christ is 1 in many who went to hell to preach gospel & free captive spirits held there. Hermas 9 says Christ & his apostles went. Origen, others & art shows John Baptist did. Art works show angels & saints preaching in hell too. There's creeds that include Christ's descent into hell too. 1 Pet.3:15-22;4:5-6; Eph. 4:7-14; Isa.42:5-7, etc.

You Tube: Justin Martyr Jr: Christ's descent into Hell & Baptism as type of Descent

CHRIST DESCENT INTO HELL BAPTISM FOR DEAD AS TYPE OF DESCENT 2

[JustinMartyrJr]

#13 Godmakers from sinners: ?s for Aaron, etc.

Would these deified (former murderers), who deprived their victims of qualifying for grace by accepting Jesus while alive; later have same love & mercy Christ showed them? Wouldn't they also go rescue their victims from frying forever in hell, by descending? We've murderers turned preachers still in prisons, working to get murders, etc., saved by grace & not by works! So wouldn't deified former murders help their victims get out of hell too?

[JustinMartyrJr]

#12 Godmakers from sinners: ?s for Aaron, etc.

So trillions of years from now, as the "godmakers from sinners," (made by Christ & 1 God Godhead), are enjoying "eternal life," living in heaven with Christ (& 1 God Godhead).

What has become of the many victims that these former murders, (now deified), may have deprived their victims of?

For when they murdered them, they took their chances to confess Jesus before "it's everlastingly too late!" "Confess before you die, or forever you'll fry!"

[JustinMartyrJr]

#9 Godmakers from sinners: ?s for Aaron, etc.

Christian preachers, like Christ, went to prison to preach to prisoners there, (Christ to spirit prisoners, souls in hell, hades, limbo, etc., You Tube: Christ's descent into Hell & Baptism as type of Descent). Preachers to different mortal State Prisons, all over USA, etc.

Preachers, upon getting prisoners to confess the Nicene creed 3 in 1 Jesus, to qualify in accepting the "real Jesus"! Do they also accept 4th cent. Fathers' deification?

[JustinMartyrJr]

Part 1: Questions for Aaron & Other anti-LDS "Christians"

Is Nicene Creed Jesus of 4th century, "real Jesus," 3 in 1 God that is to be confessed & accepted in order to be saved?

If so, do modern Christians know that early Fathers who gave us that creed, admit it wasn't biblical?

Why is creed required, but not deification = becoming gods? For same Fathers who gave us creed, also taught their own versions of theosis, Christian moral perfection, deification? They were Godmakers from sinners!

[JustinMartyrJr]

Part 2: Godmakers from sinners: ?s for Aaron, etc.

Do modern Christians know which bible passages early to later Christians cited in defense of biblical doctrine of Christ making gods out of sinners?

Why is King David's Psalms cited as scriptures, even though he admits he's a murderer, womanizer & is going to hell? Whereas same alleged charges against Joe Smith, disqualifies his scriptures?

Why is Moses, who killed an Egyptian, hide his body in sand, & his bloody rituals part of scripture?

[JustinMartyrJr]

Part 3: Godmakers from sinners: ?s for Aaron, etc.

Abraham, who almost performs a human sacrifice, but instead, kills a ram, (by today's standards, guilty of cruelty to animals). Why is he, David & Moses amongst Old Testament prophets who rush up to greet Christ, with hand & wrist grips, when Christ comes to harrow hell, resurrect them from their graves, & bring them to paradise, where they advance towards deification? (As seen in historic biblical Christian iconography of Anastasis).

[JustinMartyrJr]

Part 4: Godmakers from sinners: ?s for Aaron, etc.

Irenaeus 120-203 Christ's descent to preach gospel to spirits in hades, resurrect, deify & perfect them, is "both destroying our adversary, & perfecting man after the image & likeness of God." Ante-Nicene Fathers, 1:549, 330, 352, 451, 457, 488, 493-4, 506, 510, 543-4, 549-50, 560-1, 572-3, & 576-7; Eph.4:7-14; 1 Pet.3:15-22; 4:5-6; Isa.14:4-19; 1 Cor.15:24-28.

Do modern anti-LDS "Christians" even know that Christ's descent is part of deif.?

[JustinMartyrJr]

Part 5: Godmakers from sinners: ?s for Aaron, etc.

680-681, 6th Ecumenical Council discussed issue of deification of man through defeat

of Hades-Death.

1st in many to be deified by Christ, during Christ's harrowing of hell, Anastasis, is Adam 1 Cor.15:19-23. For God had transferred Adam from earth into Paradise, giving Adam means of advancement, so that upon maturing & becoming perfect, & being even declared a god, Adam might thus ascend into heaven in possession of immortality. ANF 2:104.

[JustinMartyrJr]

#6 Godmakers from sinners, ?s for Aaron, etc.

Source: Theophilus of Antioch 115-168-181 AD, responding to early anti-Christian Autolycus. Ante-Nicene Fathers = ANF 2:91, 93, 104-5.

In iconography of Anastasis = resurrection, the moment that Christ grasps Adam's hand to raise him up, is the beginning of Adam's deification, & the deification of all others rescued by Christ from hades, hell, or from the defeated devil & a defeated personified death. Christ is making gods out of cleansed sinners!

[JustinMartyrJr]

#7 Godmakers from sinners, ?s for Aaron, etc.

Anna D. Kartsonis, Anastasis, The Making of An Image, Princeton Un. Press, 1986, 72, etc.

When "Born again" Christian preachers go to prisons to preach to convicted murders, rapists, etc., & or when "saved" convicts get their fellow convicts to get different ones like Satanic ritualistic murderer, David Berkowitz to be "saved." (You Tube: Son of Sam/Son of Hope, 1-3). Or like Phil Reardon, convicted murder, now Trenton State Prison preacher.

[JustinMartyrJr]

#8 Godmakers from sinners: ?s for Aaron, etc.

If Charles Tex Watson & Susan Sadie Atkins, (convicted murders, followers of Charles Manson, helped with Tate-LaBianca murders, 1969); can both be "saved" Christians. (Dr. Ken Matto, Doubting the Grace of God).

Would mass murders like Hitler, Himmler, Joseph Stalin USSR, 1934-1939; Genghis Khan 1206-1227; Mao Ze-Dong China, etc., also ALL have been "saved" too, if they'd confessed Jesus before they died?

If, so what about their victims?

[JustinMartyrJr]

#10 Godmakers from sinners: ?s for Aaron, etc.

Do these Preachers, & "saved" murders in prisons, understand historic Christian biblical implications of Christ making gods out of repentant sinners? While they can't understand, how Father, Son & Holy Ghost can be 3 & yet "only 1 God"? Thus also making Father & Holy Ghost, in 1 God- Godhead, also godmakers from sinners, in saving both King David & David Berkowit! King D after he's been in hell, Acts 2:25-38, D. B, so he don't go to hell?

[JustinMartyrJr]

#11 Godmakers from sinners: ?s for Aaron, etc.

If Christ (1 Godhead) are a godmakers from sinners, who in the after life realms, progress towards becoming gods or goddesses, where they share God's powers, glory, throne, & become perfect even as the Father is perfect! Mat.5:48, (According to historic Christians' biblically cited recorded defenses of different versions of this belief).

Would these newly deified souls, (once murderers, satanists, etc.), eventually become godmakers of sinners too?

[RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS]

1: Anti-LDS Christians under their own logic & ?s: Was Christ's earthly mother, Mary, a sinner? Early anti-Christians said, Yes! She's a fornicator with Roman soldier, Panthera, to produce Jesus. Christ "a bastard son," redeems Mary, raises her to goddess, by symbolic hand grips during her assumption at death. She goes through heavenly coronation, glorification, is enthroned, crowned & deified as "Queen of Heaven," to sit by Trinity, Father, Son & Holy Ghost, who had thus goddess made her.

[RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS]

2. Earlier Christians who brought us unbiblical Nicene Creed 325 AD; also taught biblical doctrine called deification = becoming gods! Citing bible passages, & even ones not found in present day bibles; they defend their versions of it against Heretics (& early anti-Christians who mock Christ's birth into a man's body that needs food & sleep. Why do modern Christians say Nicene Creed Jesus is "real" Jesus that's to be confessed, by murderers in prisons? But don't say they can become gods?

[RESTOREDAPOLOGETICS]

3: Lundy, Monumental Christianity, 68-70; Will Durant, Caesar & Christ, 559 & 698; Guignebert, Jesus, 127; Klausner, 23; R. Travers Herford, 1903, Christianity in Talmud & Midrash, 44; Robert L. Wilken, Christians As The Romans Saw Them, 127, 129, 137-143. Dr. Charles F. Potter, Did Jesus Write This Book? 97—98.

You Tube: Contrasting LDS & Early Christian Versions of Deification.

First God Makers Were Early Christian God Makers.

Why Are Anti-Mormon 'Christians' Like Early Anti-Christians?

[awolLDSasap]

You speak as if you were trying to mimic Sidney Rigdons restoration theology he gave to Joseph.

Cutting and pasting to defend Mormonism is a distortion of Gods word. Admit it, you don't agree with the New Testament.

[leSavaii]

Aaron stop the speculations. God is just a knee-cap away. Ask Him your same concerns, 'cause there is nowhere in the Bible in which God admitted Himself a sinner.

Go figure!

[leSavaii]

DID HEAVEN FATHER & HEAVENLY MOTHER SIN?..You should ask Him 'cause we based our speculations upon infos. that was/is available man. God is always God, from everlasting to everlasting as all creedal Christians aslo believe.

Why wasn't God reveal these secrets to His prophets of the Old/New Testament? perhaps too hard for humans to comprehend of kept it to Himself 'til His children are ready. or unless God wanted to concentrate more for His kids to follow by faith then by sight.

[leSavaii]

Here's you problem Aaron you think too much ahead than of Christians as a people know & as the scriptures reveal...Isn't that speculations on your part? Mormons believe God is the single source of all truths in all good things in life. But if you compare "heavenly beings" with our "mortal beings" is completely pure speculations.

MURDER & DENYING THE HOLY GHOST...These are all up to God, but for any other sins, Christ's Atonement kicks in with true repentance on our part.

[tlatkin]

IMAGINE

[godluvsmormons]

My Mormon sister in law said once "I know I am not supposed to remember, but I do remember being held and loved by heavenly mother" They are so mystified by their own lies that they have built a fantasy world in their minds that reinforces their faith.

[sldeyo]

"not only have we a Father in heaven, but we have a Mother there also..for side by side with him...For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother."-Melvin J. Ballard pg 205

Biblical truth: ...before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.-Isa 43:10c

...beside me [there is] no God.-Isa 44:6.

Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any].-Isa 44:8.

There is no heavenly mother.

[naturalwilderness]

so, lets see, there is also no Jesus right?

[sldeyo]

I'm not saying that there isn't a Jesus. I'm saying that there isn't a Goddess in heaven standing side by side with God the Father. How do I know this? Because God the Father said so.

I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD.-Isa 44:6

Either you believe God and what He has said or you don't. I choose to believe Him and His authority on who is beside Him in heaven.

If God said there's noone beside Him,then there is no heavenly mother.

[naturalwilderness]

um, if there is "no god beside me, then there would be no Jesus sitting on the right hand of God"

[awolLDSasap]

If you read the preceding verse it explains that Jesus was sitting next to the glory of God.

[naturalwilderness]

If you don't thoroughly understand the doctrine, you are just confusing yourself. The question you should be asking yourself is this; do you believe that you can be saved from sin, or just saved from hell or death? If there is a heavenly mother, would it bother you if she sinned?

Since we are talking about mythical beings anyway, why do you think that you can understand mormonism from a traditional christian point of view? It's like trying to fit a star wars character into a star trek movie

[naturalwilderness]

ok, here's your problem. According to Mormon doctrine, Jesus is like his father, not like the rest of us.

We are, like, the not-as-favored children. So we are all sinners, but Jesus wasn't.

That means, we have potential to be like God, but it doesn't mean that God had to be like us. It's not a reciprocal relationship. In mormon doctrine, God the Father, could also have been the "first born" or "savior" of the planet his siblings lived on.

[GiftoAll]

Mormons want everyone to repent from not keeping their 13 articles of "blasphemy" faith.

#2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins and not Adams trangressions.

What? Jesus Christ is not sufficient?

Mormon leaders, you go right ahead and lie to the membership and try to prove you are worthy to a holy God.

Fools.

Sorry aaron, this burns me up!

[KakkoiGuy1]

I am glad that you ask the LDS questions that make them think. I don't think they are taught to ask questions so it's good when you ask them questions about their doctrines because the doctrine is the problem. The people have a heart for God but the doctrine is wayward. As always, I commend you for walking in love, Aaron and keep preaching the Gospel of the Biblical Jesus.

[aaronshaf2006]

piglergufy, Mormonism is pretty quiet on whether Heavenly Mother is part of the Godhead itself.

[SpeckCipher]

Here is the reason her name is not publicly known and her being is not revealed in scripture directly. People will poke fun at her using her name blasphemously.

The question can be answered simply and quickly. Most mortals sin. the conditions to become God was laid out by Jesus in the bible, though to answer your question you just need to look at the process of salvation.

Jesus explained it in the bible; one must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven.

[SpeckCipher]

An infant when born is without sin. The infant is born in water and blood. As Christ said we need to be borne of water and fire. His apostles have taught that this is baptism, being a submersion in water, and the confirmation of the Holy Spirit, in this way we are made new and have clean hands.

But we must also not sin again doing only that which is good in the sight of God. We must turn away from our wicked and sinful ways and be pure in out intentions.

[SpeckCipher]

It is at the judgment bar of God that we must show our hands and our harts that they are clean an pure, without sin and desire to do only that which is good in Gods' eyes.

In that state and new creature that we are, we are without sin and have not sinned as this new creature, being more than man, following the rest of what Christ has said we can also join God and become one with him even as Christ is.

[aaronshaf2006]

SpeckCipher, do you believe Heavenly Mother had to repent of her sins?

[SpeckCipher]

Read previous, Find references. Then read Genesis about about Adam and Eve.

Then think.

[aaronshaf2006]

I don't have time for your hedging.

[SpeckCipher]

May I quote you?

[pilgergufy]

I believe when she is also exalted and perfected she did sin and had to repent . Why would she be diffrent form heavenly father. And what for sin's? Well i dont see woman are no diffrent to man because sin is everything that is not how god is or would do. So one thought . Can it be that god sinned before he was god? And when he/she got exalted he didnt change and sinned? Would it lessen you worship when you knew he was a sinner?

[pilgergufy]

I meawhen he is god now and he did overcome his sin why would that exclude him to be worshiped? Would him made this not even more worthy of praise?

[SpeckCipher]

Praise is all fine and good, and to evolve is worthy of it especially when against an adversary and winning. It's all physics really. Quantifiable math mathematically and understood logically.

Like measuring the universes shape it is though thought to be impossible when figured out it's quite simple more basic math and physics. Ti's people that make thinks complicated.

[pilgergufy]

I feel a little bit uneducated but is heavenly mother a part of the godhead and when not why? I mean when woman become godnesses why is she not a part of the godhead? Why is it always just the father, the son and the holy spirit. And when there is a heavnely mother why are in heaven only 2 throns, one for heavenly father and one for jesus christ sitting on the right hand of god? I know not related to your question Aaron just pop to my mind do you have an answer?