Please note that this was Jaco during his final years of life,drugs,alcohol,mental illness,hd taken it's toll. Sadly by this time,1985, he was sleeping in New York parks, his chops were not even close to the virtuoso people were raving about in his 70's Florida days.
NO WAY, YOU HAVEN'T HEARD OF CAT CLEMONS!? Come redeem your shame by checking out my videos and commenting and subscribing! It'll be awesome. Trust me.
What happened to the rest of the clip?! Every time I watch this video it ends on the same spot. It seems to me that Jaco's solo is about to begin but the video always ends before we get a chance to find out...
Also are they influenced and blessed with Jaco's influences like Jimi Hendrix, Rocco Prestia, Charlie Parker, Charles Mingus, James Jamerson and even Carol Kaye (who in those days was being considered as a Jamerson-clone, but she was just the first in those days who could write down those funky-lines, so all the cats who knew how to read studied her books...)
Well, my fellow-bassists: here's my (not so humble) opinion: Jeff Berlin didn't have any impact on peeps like for instance: Pat Metheny, Joe Zawinul, Wayne Shorter or Joni Mitchell. And a lot of bassplayers like Marcus Miller, Victor Bailey, Jimmy Haslip, Mark Egan, Victor Wooten, John Patitucci openly admit their 'state of awe' towards Jaco's playing.
Wow, lot of commotion between peeps over here... All artists that I (!) like and admire are all influenced by Jaco and not by Jeff.. Is that a coincidence..? I think what surprises me the most is that people really think that Jeff Berlin had the same impact on bassplaying as Jaco...
I'm getting a little tired of running into everyone's favorite bullshit word "soul". Intervals, arpeggios, developing ideas etc. really do matter. I'm sure Paul Hindemith's Ludus Tonalis has no soul compared to James Brown, but it's much more interesting music.
Its not a gunfight!.....they are complimenting,and assuming complimentary parts,mainly because they are both playing bass and obviously they have to assume different parts:ie:-Tenor Bass solo and Bass Bass locking down the Groove,its not about who is better than who!
Jeff was irritating on that. He was trying to throw in the whole kitchen sink and it lacked soul. Bummer because he is a technical player with lots of chops, but not much really grabbed my attention. Sorry Jeff, but you are self absorbed and self indulgent. Jaco was probably saying to himself, "what the hell did I get myself into"
Jeff Berlin definitely out-techniqued Jaco in this vid. Kinda like reminds me of Larry Holmes beating up Ali when Ali was clearly past his prime. And yet, which of these two has had the greater impact more over 25 years later? Survey says...
Had this jam taken place around the time when Jaco recorded his first record( about ten years earlier), Berlin would have stood there with an open jaw.
In my humble opinion - Jaco has the raw "Groove" that Jeff just doesn't have. HOWEVER - Jaco can't even TOUCH Jeff in the "Soloing" dept. They're both monsters - they are the two great boundary leaps of our time! Their are many others as well, but these two have it all worked out! Again, that's just my opinion - and as a bassist that has lifted both styles, I can't say that I love one more than the other. They both bring a smile to my face when I listen!
@Bassistdan1 go back and listen to Jaco with Pat Metheny the album "Bright Size Life". Jaco was ON back then. Listen to Jaco's soloing and phrasing. Still to this day, it never ceases to amaze me. I agree with you on Jaco's groove. When I think of Bass players that revolutionized bass playing, I think of Jaco, Stanley, etc.... but never really think of Jeff. Just my $2.53 worth.
@bassclefjean1 I agree with you that Jeff sort of fell onto the coat-tails of others like Jaco and didn't really take part in "revolutionizing" the instrument - but to deny Jeff the ability and knowledge that he possesses, as well as his feel and legato approach to the instrument, is a kick in his butt! I just think the guy is absolutely amazing - No, he's no Jaco. I've always said that Jaco just opened the doors and all of us just walked thru it!
They are BOTH great players(!); Jaco was the "first" and more popular one in this style and was the true "rock star"; this is the difference. The "rock star" factor gives the edge to Jaco. Weather Report's "Heavy Weather" (1976) really changed the game and Berlin's musical personality would not have worked as well in that situation, though, I'm sure he would have sounded great; and Jaco did "touch" Berlin, a few times alright.....; one of those times was on "Havona".
@Bassistdan1 Jaco cannot touch Jeff in the solo department? You must be absolutely retarded; without offence of course. I'm all for opinions and subjectivity, but don't try to create supposed facts from your opinion because what you are saying is only thought by you and a few other ignorant, so called bass enthusiasts. If you want to be witty, either use your opinion to form a statement, or use facts. Do not use your opinion while you say you're using facts.
@trapfman Trap - my entire comment starts out by stating that it IS "MY humble opinion". No where in my comment did I mention that any of it was "fact". And it's quite difficult, in my opinion, to NOT take offense at being called "retarded". Also, fact of the matter is, although Jaco knew written music very well, Jeff Berlin knows and sight reads written music about as good as anyone in the music industry. So, I'm still trying to figure out where I stated that any of my comment was fact!
@Bassistdan1 Maybe you're right about the way you (and I) formed your (and my) sentence, yet, saying something like 'Jaco cannot TOUCH Jeff qua solos' is not subtle. You basically say there is a huge difference, which is contrary to claiming that comparing them would always be close calls. Let me ask you this, then: Do you think Jeff is a way better soloist than Jaco? If yes, then allow me to lol..
@trapfman Mr, Trap, if I may call you that - I do not think that Jaco could solo like Jeff. Jaco's solos were more "groove" oriented and could almost be foundation bass-line's in and of themselves. <===Opinion! I just have to be clear that when I make a claim that all are aware that it's only my "opinion". LOL - When you listen to Manos de Piedra, I think one can tell that Jeff is an amazing soloist. <== again, my opinion. Lastly - Both players really DO make me smile!
@Bassistdan1 And you say that because of the fact that Jaco's solos are groove oriented (groove being the first thing a bassist should think of, in my opinion), he is not able to 'even TOUCH' Jeff in that department? What you're saying makes no sense. Don't get me wrong, I love Jeff as bassist, but the reason you are giving for your opinion is not logical at all. Maybe you should first try to define 'the solo department' for yourself and us. Im sure youknow this /watch?v=X5tUaxjIfEQ
@trapfman DUDE, I don't know what else to say to you! You are somehow reading the word "FACT" into my "twice mentioned Opinion" If I messed up somewhere, could you PLEASE point out where I said it was a "FACT" that Jaco had a more groove oriented style? I said, and I'll say it AGAIN - it's JUST MY OPINION.........O P I N I O N". NOTHING "FACTUAL" about it! Just the way I see and hear it. I think you're just trying to pick a fight with me!
@Bassistdan1 Haha it's funny you start to capitalize every single word the second you cannot answer my question. Let me repeat: Do you say that because of the fact that Jaco's solos are groove oriented (groove being the first thing a bassist should think of, in my opinion), he is not able to 'even TOUCH' Jeff in that department? Answer my question, because T H I S W A Y YOU only SHOW that you ADMIT you cannot answer my QUESTION hence your first statement being R E T A R D E D :-)
@Bassistdan1 Haha you can't answer the question because you realised I'm right about the fact you have no argument for claiming what you said (You basically said solos shouldn't be groove oriented (I figured you might need a summary)). Anyway, I got curious to who you are exactly, checked out your vids.. And lolol if I play like that in 25 years I will probably hang myself for all the time I wasted trying to be a good bassist; I totally understand you now :-)
@Bassistdan1 I think the groove part of Jeff you're talking about is because of the fact he's a technical guy, and also his tone is very very treble! He doesn't have that low end sound that Jaco & many other bass players have.
@Bassistdan1 I think the groove part of Jeff you're talking about is because of the fact he's a technical guy, and also his tone is very very treble! He doesn't have that low end sound that Jaco & many other bass players have.
It looked like Jaco was trying to be tasteful and lay down a rhythmic bass line cuz he knew that Berlin was just gonna take the lead regardless, but then Jaco got frustrated because Berlin wasn't in time with Jaco's rhythm (most likely on purpose). I got the sense that musically these two didn not get along. If you listen to their basses talking, it sounds like one bass talking shit to another bass.
Too much going on in the same frequency range if you ask me. Too many notes not enough space.
It gets slightly better as the treack goes on but I still think that they are in thier own little worlds and not really making an attempt to connect musically with one another. Too much technicality and not enough musicality on display here.
Hey, anyone remember those cool noises PSHHH, PSHHHH, PSHHH, PSHHH! Those were the days..
edbingey 2 weeks ago
I used to like the noises...
Alvinegro1904 1 month ago
Please note that this was Jaco during his final years of life,drugs,alcohol,mental illness,hd taken it's toll. Sadly by this time,1985, he was sleeping in New York parks, his chops were not even close to the virtuoso people were raving about in his 70's Florida days.
cgcgce 1 month ago
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NO WAY, YOU HAVEN'T HEARD OF CAT CLEMONS!? Come redeem your shame by checking out my videos and commenting and subscribing! It'll be awesome. Trust me.
-Cat
CatClemonsOfficial 2 months ago
Where is the full video ???
spmahcuom 2 months ago
@spmahcuom He took the noises out.
edbingey 2 weeks ago
Man the tone quality on this is really good! Thanks. My two favorites.
tacomadc 2 months ago
What happened to the rest of the clip?! Every time I watch this video it ends on the same spot. It seems to me that Jaco's solo is about to begin but the video always ends before we get a chance to find out...
Carehuea 2 months ago
Also are they influenced and blessed with Jaco's influences like Jimi Hendrix, Rocco Prestia, Charlie Parker, Charles Mingus, James Jamerson and even Carol Kaye (who in those days was being considered as a Jamerson-clone, but she was just the first in those days who could write down those funky-lines, so all the cats who knew how to read studied her books...)
yemooda 2 months ago
Well, my fellow-bassists: here's my (not so humble) opinion: Jeff Berlin didn't have any impact on peeps like for instance: Pat Metheny, Joe Zawinul, Wayne Shorter or Joni Mitchell. And a lot of bassplayers like Marcus Miller, Victor Bailey, Jimmy Haslip, Mark Egan, Victor Wooten, John Patitucci openly admit their 'state of awe' towards Jaco's playing.
yemooda 2 months ago
Wow, lot of commotion between peeps over here... All artists that I (!) like and admire are all influenced by Jaco and not by Jeff.. Is that a coincidence..? I think what surprises me the most is that people really think that Jeff Berlin had the same impact on bassplaying as Jaco...
yemooda 2 months ago
2.12 is absolutely amazing. Jeff listens to what intervals Jaco is doing on his descending run and finishes off his lick for him. Genius.
Murreh 3 months ago
I'm getting a little tired of running into everyone's favorite bullshit word "soul". Intervals, arpeggios, developing ideas etc. really do matter. I'm sure Paul Hindemith's Ludus Tonalis has no soul compared to James Brown, but it's much more interesting music.
Modes9 3 months ago
Its not a gunfight!.....they are complimenting,and assuming complimentary parts,mainly because they are both playing bass and obviously they have to assume different parts:ie:-Tenor Bass solo and Bass Bass locking down the Groove,its not about who is better than who!
JohnCastellain 3 months ago
Jeff was irritating on that. He was trying to throw in the whole kitchen sink and it lacked soul. Bummer because he is a technical player with lots of chops, but not much really grabbed my attention. Sorry Jeff, but you are self absorbed and self indulgent. Jaco was probably saying to himself, "what the hell did I get myself into"
I'll take soul over fast finger jive technic.
bassclefjean1 3 months ago
Jeff Berlin definitely out-techniqued Jaco in this vid. Kinda like reminds me of Larry Holmes beating up Ali when Ali was clearly past his prime. And yet, which of these two has had the greater impact more over 25 years later? Survey says...
catboyzee123 4 months ago
@catboyzee123
Had this jam taken place around the time when Jaco recorded his first record( about ten years earlier), Berlin would have stood there with an open jaw.
Pastorius333 3 months ago
@Pastorius333 No doubt.
catboyzee123 3 months ago
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I hate Berlin style....BORING....SCALE AND SCALE UP AND DOWN.......CHARLIE PARKER, please show him some good resolutions!!
spacemanbose 4 months ago
The sound of this is WAY better, thanks. It's nearly all Jeff, Jaco looks a bit out of it.
tacomadc 4 months ago
Two of my all time favourites! If only Alain Caron and Michael Manring could have made it there too ;-)
BassmanDannyFox 4 months ago
thumbs up if u came here because the horrible noises xD
juglaresco 4 months ago 15
BZZHZHZBHZCHT
there u go , much better
assar12 4 months ago
Jeff is great but I prefer Jaco he seems more soulful to me !
carakenio 5 months ago
In my humble opinion - Jaco has the raw "Groove" that Jeff just doesn't have. HOWEVER - Jaco can't even TOUCH Jeff in the "Soloing" dept. They're both monsters - they are the two great boundary leaps of our time! Their are many others as well, but these two have it all worked out! Again, that's just my opinion - and as a bassist that has lifted both styles, I can't say that I love one more than the other. They both bring a smile to my face when I listen!
Bassistdan1 5 months ago 7
Comment removed
Pastorius333 3 months ago
@Bassistdan1
A 24 year old Jaco would have given Jeff a run for his money!
Pastorius333 3 months ago 13
@Bassistdan1 go back and listen to Jaco with Pat Metheny the album "Bright Size Life". Jaco was ON back then. Listen to Jaco's soloing and phrasing. Still to this day, it never ceases to amaze me. I agree with you on Jaco's groove. When I think of Bass players that revolutionized bass playing, I think of Jaco, Stanley, etc.... but never really think of Jeff. Just my $2.53 worth.
bassclefjean1 3 months ago
@bassclefjean1 I agree with you that Jeff sort of fell onto the coat-tails of others like Jaco and didn't really take part in "revolutionizing" the instrument - but to deny Jeff the ability and knowledge that he possesses, as well as his feel and legato approach to the instrument, is a kick in his butt! I just think the guy is absolutely amazing - No, he's no Jaco. I've always said that Jaco just opened the doors and all of us just walked thru it!
Bassistdan1 3 months ago
@Bassistdan1
They are BOTH great players(!); Jaco was the "first" and more popular one in this style and was the true "rock star"; this is the difference. The "rock star" factor gives the edge to Jaco. Weather Report's "Heavy Weather" (1976) really changed the game and Berlin's musical personality would not have worked as well in that situation, though, I'm sure he would have sounded great; and Jaco did "touch" Berlin, a few times alright.....; one of those times was on "Havona".
lonhillyer 3 months ago
@Bassistdan1 Jaco cannot touch Jeff in the solo department? You must be absolutely retarded; without offence of course. I'm all for opinions and subjectivity, but don't try to create supposed facts from your opinion because what you are saying is only thought by you and a few other ignorant, so called bass enthusiasts. If you want to be witty, either use your opinion to form a statement, or use facts. Do not use your opinion while you say you're using facts.
trapfman 3 months ago
@trapfman Trap - my entire comment starts out by stating that it IS "MY humble opinion". No where in my comment did I mention that any of it was "fact". And it's quite difficult, in my opinion, to NOT take offense at being called "retarded". Also, fact of the matter is, although Jaco knew written music very well, Jeff Berlin knows and sight reads written music about as good as anyone in the music industry. So, I'm still trying to figure out where I stated that any of my comment was fact!
Bassistdan1 3 months ago
@Bassistdan1 Maybe you're right about the way you (and I) formed your (and my) sentence, yet, saying something like 'Jaco cannot TOUCH Jeff qua solos' is not subtle. You basically say there is a huge difference, which is contrary to claiming that comparing them would always be close calls. Let me ask you this, then: Do you think Jeff is a way better soloist than Jaco? If yes, then allow me to lol..
trapfman 3 months ago
@trapfman Mr, Trap, if I may call you that - I do not think that Jaco could solo like Jeff. Jaco's solos were more "groove" oriented and could almost be foundation bass-line's in and of themselves. <===Opinion! I just have to be clear that when I make a claim that all are aware that it's only my "opinion". LOL - When you listen to Manos de Piedra, I think one can tell that Jeff is an amazing soloist. <== again, my opinion. Lastly - Both players really DO make me smile!
Bassistdan1 3 months ago
@Bassistdan1 And you say that because of the fact that Jaco's solos are groove oriented (groove being the first thing a bassist should think of, in my opinion), he is not able to 'even TOUCH' Jeff in that department? What you're saying makes no sense. Don't get me wrong, I love Jeff as bassist, but the reason you are giving for your opinion is not logical at all. Maybe you should first try to define 'the solo department' for yourself and us. Im sure youknow this /watch?v=X5tUaxjIfEQ
trapfman 3 months ago
@trapfman DUDE, I don't know what else to say to you! You are somehow reading the word "FACT" into my "twice mentioned Opinion" If I messed up somewhere, could you PLEASE point out where I said it was a "FACT" that Jaco had a more groove oriented style? I said, and I'll say it AGAIN - it's JUST MY OPINION.........O P I N I O N". NOTHING "FACTUAL" about it! Just the way I see and hear it. I think you're just trying to pick a fight with me!
Bassistdan1 3 months ago
@Bassistdan1 Haha it's funny you start to capitalize every single word the second you cannot answer my question. Let me repeat: Do you say that because of the fact that Jaco's solos are groove oriented (groove being the first thing a bassist should think of, in my opinion), he is not able to 'even TOUCH' Jeff in that department? Answer my question, because T H I S W A Y YOU only SHOW that you ADMIT you cannot answer my QUESTION hence your first statement being R E T A R D E D :-)
trapfman 3 months ago
@trapfman ROTFLMAO - OK! I gotcha! WOW!
Bassistdan1 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Bassistdan1 Haha you can't answer the question because you realised I'm right about the fact you have no argument for claiming what you said (You basically said solos shouldn't be groove oriented (I figured you might need a summary)). Anyway, I got curious to who you are exactly, checked out your vids.. And lolol if I play like that in 25 years I will probably hang myself for all the time I wasted trying to be a good bassist; I totally understand you now :-)
trapfman 3 months ago
@Bassistdan1 (the link just to enjoy, not trying to make a point lol)
trapfman 3 months ago
@Bassistdan1 I think the groove part of Jeff you're talking about is because of the fact he's a technical guy, and also his tone is very very treble! He doesn't have that low end sound that Jaco & many other bass players have.
CrazyMusicalStuff 1 month ago
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@Bassistdan1 I think the groove part of Jeff you're talking about is because of the fact he's a technical guy, and also his tone is very very treble! He doesn't have that low end sound that Jaco & many other bass players have.
CrazyMusicalStuff 1 month ago
@Bassistdan1 Jeff Berlin is an imitator of Jaco.
edcherrylawn 1 month ago
Jaco Pastorius and Jeff Berlin : the difference between a great artist and a great bass player
xMirecourtx 6 months ago 3
what the hell is jeff doin
moh508th 6 months ago
@moh508th Hi, They are playing "Invitation", following the chord changes steadily.
tsuyoshiNYC 5 months ago
It looked like Jaco was trying to be tasteful and lay down a rhythmic bass line cuz he knew that Berlin was just gonna take the lead regardless, but then Jaco got frustrated because Berlin wasn't in time with Jaco's rhythm (most likely on purpose). I got the sense that musically these two didn not get along. If you listen to their basses talking, it sounds like one bass talking shit to another bass.
justink140 6 months ago 3
Comment removed
TheJbarsuglia 6 months ago
Comment removed
TheJbarsuglia 6 months ago
Too much going on in the same frequency range if you ask me. Too many notes not enough space.
It gets slightly better as the treack goes on but I still think that they are in thier own little worlds and not really making an attempt to connect musically with one another. Too much technicality and not enough musicality on display here.
TheJesusQuintana 6 months ago
not the best of jeff, but still pretty good.
sasukeuchihalb 6 months ago
I hate Berlin style....BORING....SCALE AND SCALE UP AND DOWN.......CHARLIE PARKER, please show him some good resolutions!!
jesemus33 7 months ago
jeff, very bad sound and timing....
dariuna68 11 months ago 2
Thank you for re-uploading this video!!!
ZappaFan101 1 year ago
WOW! great!
Love to Jaco forever.
blepino 1 year ago